Calling Out 2LegittoShit and the Other Non-Stats People

I wondered who that was.

all the WAR and FIP and BABIP stuff, I could probably get it over time, but I have the attention span of….. *insert witty remark here. Maybe over time I’ll get more in with the stats, but I know enough to get by, I know which players I should trust more and all that jazz, and I know I would get destroyed in any debate with a stat-geek, which is why I don’t take part in those. And actually, I have no basement, so HA!

Stats are important, but they have a tendency to be overly relied upon, which inevitibly leads to folly for some and the ever popular underdog victory on the flip side of the bean counter coin. Ex: statistically speaking William Wallace should never have beaten the English in any engagement (who’s not a fan of braveheart), the 13 Colonies shouldn’t have won their independence, the Texicans should never have been able to overcome Santa Ana’s veteran forces (remember the Alamo bitches), the USA should have won in Vietnam (McNamara’s failure as the chief war advisor is one of the biggest bean counter failures in history).

being a “stat-guy” is not just always saying the underdog will lose

i don’t really understand this line of thinking

usually what happens is someone says “player x is awesome/awful” and then at some point someone else will point to stats and then some of the more rambunctious fans end up saying “i don’t buy it” and the argument dissolves

there has to be superior strategy behind it, or lots of luck.

And 2Legit is quitting the site to work on school. So it’s probably for the best. He doesn’t need this headache.

I suspect that most of us like sports because of the unpredictable nature of the game. But at the same time, there is an overriding sense of order and stability you can see using statistics, not to mention you can make predictions about the future based on those same statistics. It seems shortsighted to point out the aberration as the rule of unpredictability and why statheads are wrong, because it is expected every once in a while.

In the end, this seems almost like a religious/philosophical argument that will not get either side to change their mind.

To begin, I’m an accountant*, so I do love the numbers. However, I wouldn’t consider myself a "Stats Geek". I spend all day working with numbers so the last thing that I want to do in my "free" time is work with more numbers. ("Hey everybody! Let’s do some federal taxes – for fun!!!" Ummm, no.)

*Hey! Are you saying that I’m not fun to be around!?!

It does seem, at times, that people who express opinions without providing statistical support for them get ripped pretty harshly. Relax – this is a blog not a court of law. Not every opinion has to be proven correct beyond a reasonable doubt. I do like discussions with opposing viewpoints, but there are times on here when things go too far.

As someone who works with numbers, I understand that they have limits. There are "things" which exist, but cannot be measured or quantified. Even though they are ignored when computing the stats, these intangibles aren’t necessarily equal (between ballplayers) or inconsequential.

 While I do enjoy the “Stats for Dummies” series, it might be better if you weren’t calling the non-stat knowing people “dummies”. I’m self-depreciating enough to laugh at this, but there could be some sensitive personalities that take it wrong.

Royals Review is really the best place for Royals fans of all types to "get together" on the internet. I’ve visited many sites, but this is the only one that I’ve actually joined (and that was only after reading on the site for over 1 year and a half). I really hope that 2Legit returns after his exams are complete (although, he could probably benefit from a name change).

So you guys can get to know where I’m coming from I put this on my SB Nation Profile. I’m 44, born February 25, 1965.

ive only a few miles from the K, in a ZIPcode where every game is on FSN. Ain’t that cool?

Hobby musician (blues guitar) with my hobby musician soulmate wife Wendy (she’s a bass guitar player). Sometimes we like to play Cajun and Zydeco. Sometimes a little “classic” rock.

I love baseball, I love my Royals like George Pottymouth Brett loves his Royals. Wendy, she’s more than indifferent but not such a huge fan.

Baseball has marked my life from birth. My grandpaw took me to see A’s games when I was still in diapers. I don’t remember any of it for sure, I think the memories I have of it are built on stories told to me about it and pictures that I was shown. My mom’s best friend through grade school married Campy Campineris before my mom married my dad. Grandpaw had pictues taken of me with him and people like Satchel Paige, Big Joe Turner, Buck O’Neil, Buck Buchanan, Cab Calloway, Joe Garagiola, Yogi Berra the list goes on… See Grandpaw grew up as an Irish-Choctaw on Dago Hill in St Louis (he knew Garagiola and Berra’s parents) before his dad ran off and his mom moved them to KC around 12th and Hardesty, he went to East High and learned how to play trombone in band and was a Union Musician in KC in the jazz heyday. He damn near raised me. there ya go.

I didn’t get a Texas high school education so I must have been left behind.

because I am trying to learn all the stats used here. At present, it all looks Greek, Chinese, Swahili, and Russian combined. Make no mistake, I am a Royals fan, even though I’m the fng here, but I’m mostly the passionate fan these days, prone to saying things that are highly opinionated and overly obvious to others. To me, if I can learn to back up my opinions with some stat proof, then I become a better fan. A more informed fan.

From my perspective, given I’m really new on here, it’s not my place to say there’s too much statistical information flying around the posts here. I have to adjust to the site as it exists, not have the site adjust to me. In order to do that, I have to learn a lot of things. Any time I can learn something, I am getting better in my opinion.

For this discussion, I think the stats are great, they have their place. So too does the opinionated passionate post. I think they’re equal in value as each one is given by a fan, and isn’t that what we’re all here for anyway? To be fans and discuss our love of the Royals? If I’ve missed something, someone please tell me. I’m pretty stupid sometimes.

most people know that I’m not an advanced stat wiz but I’ve definitely made an effort to understand them. I’m not into them enough to really study them. I enjoy having the people around that are because it’s made my understanding of the game a lot better.

I think this is a good post in that you make great points about stats not always telling the whole story, I totally agree with that because we are dealing with a game played by human beings. Where I think the post is misguided is your disdain for the amount of posts related to advanced stats. I’ve been here for a few years and had many discussions/arguments with “stat guys” and it is just that, discussions. When talking with devil_fingers or NYRoyal, never once have they said, “oh you aren’t a advanced stat guy” so I won’t listen to you.

Stats are a reflection of how you’ve played. They (as Topps/Upper Deck/other sports cards) do not, in any manner, represent that they product will hold future value. The are a representation of the past. Yes, if used right, they can provide future insight/information for specific players. But what about Aviles this year? Or Clint Barmes? Or some other guys that had unbelievable rookie years?

I’m a HS coach and when I fill out a lineup, I look at what guys can and cannot do for me. Do I use stats to help put my lineup together? At times. But never, this guy has the highest average, I’m hitting him first, this guy has the second highest, I’m hitting him second, and sequentially. That may not be the standard or style you would think of, but it’s an example. When I make a lineup, my job is to put guys in positions to succeed based on how they practice, how they play, their strengths, their weaknesses, and how they’ve been playing. And do I get burned by it? Sure. So does every coach.

And here’s something that I’ll share based on what I’ve learned from coaching High School Baseball.

1. Everyone should be my starting shortstop.
2. Everyone should be my starting pitcher.
3. Everyone is the best hitter on the team.
4. My players are never wrong. It was the other guys fault.
5. The umpire is ALWAYS wrong.

Take it for what it’s worth.