The John Buck Redemption: Royals Outlast White Sox, Improve to 16-11
by Freneau on May 6, 2009 12:46 AM EDT
in Kansas City Royals News
Email
PrintIt was like John Buck and David DeJesus were battling each other all night, trying to see who could post a lower WPA in a single game. Maybe they were inspired by Hiram BanniDavies. I don't know.
Buck blinked first, and in their millionth chance to take the lead, the Royals finally did.
Games needed to reach 16 wins:
| 2006 | 59 |
| 2007 | 43 |
| 2008 | 37 |
| 2009 | 27 |
Thanks to everyone for a fun night "at" the game. We posted 2376 comments for a Monday night game. Impressive. (Though we've got to get the posting of pictures under control a bit.)
Alberto Callaspo 4 MVP.
The Battle for Grass Creek awaits.
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Comments
FIRST?
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
"It's gonna be a special year. I'm feeling it." - Jose Guillen - You tell 'em, JoGui!!!
Proud Creator of the "Finsx lol Chart"
That's...
Exactly… What I meant!!!
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
"It's gonna be a special year. I'm feeling it." - Jose Guillen - You tell 'em, JoGui!!!
Proud Creator of the "Finsx lol Chart"
by Andy Edwards on May 6, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup, sure am :D
Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
"It's gonna be a special year. I'm feeling it." - Jose Guillen - You tell 'em, JoGui!!!
Proud Creator of the "Finsx lol Chart"
by Andy Edwards on May 6, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Left after the 9th
got home in time to see the W
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
great win
Sir Sidney against Carlos Silva tomorrow. I wouldn’t have the start to the 2009 battle for grass creek start any other way.
by my count, only ho-ram and farnsworth are our fresh middle relievers for tomorrow. yikes
Waiting for April.
Optimism FTW
GO ROYALS!
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway - An Onymous
by ratherfantastic on May 6, 2009 12:48 AM EDT reply actions
They are very similar
Gritty + comeback + extra innings = gutty
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
This is gonna be a fun season, isn't it?
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway - An Onymous
by ratherfantastic on May 6, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
over 2000 comments... damn...
i dont care what’s wrong with soria right now… FIRST PLACE BABY!
where tpj used to happen but no longer does due to his current dl status.
it's trey hillman
who knows
realistically speaking
Last time he didn't use Soria in this kind of situation, Soria was hurt
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
he just said he felt a little stiff
nothing to be worried about according to The Daddy.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on May 6, 2009 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
get on the motherfucking bandwagon
realistically speaking
none yet
anxiously awaiting post-game interviews
where tpj used to happen but no longer does due to his current dl status.
by blue bandwagon on May 6, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Gotta be hurt (soreness, tightness, etc.)
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
holy crap
I now have 9 BODs to catch up with. Which is ironic, because I stopped roughly around the time I started dating this guy. Oops?
Any helpers? The last one was from the Texas series….
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
by loyal2theroyals on May 6, 2009 12:50 AM EDT reply actions
I was sure about the greinke ones
Just…the others…haha! I’ll try and dig up old box scores and go from there.
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
by loyal2theroyals on May 6, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
give them all to Soria
just his presence in the bullpen is enough
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
your fictional boyfriends are upset you're cheating
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
my fictional boyfriends shouldn't worry
they’ll always have a spot in my heart :)
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
by loyal2theroyals on May 6, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
only if they do well, of course
since they are only “of the Day”
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
technically we should just rename it
to ‘The Boyfriend of the day when Greinke isn’t pitching because we all know who’s winning that shit in that instance’
Because it’s kinda true :\
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
by loyal2theroyals on May 6, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
yup!
I used to have a SOD (scrub of the day) on losing games, but it got to be too much, so we gave a lifetime scrub award to Angel Berroa and called it good.
It’s a little contest we have over here, the guys pick out a player they think will be boss, and whoever racks up the most points over the season gets baked goods or whatever I deem acceptable.
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
by loyal2theroyals on May 6, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Cool idea!
If you ever expand the BOD pool, though, here’s the two sexiest men alive (for your consideration):
Death to Flying Things (a.k.a. Sex in Midair) and Russell The Love Muscle
Don’t say I didn’t warn you…
But you did sometimes give out Most Valuable Opponents, right?
For players that seemed to want to give the game to the Royals?
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
sometimes
I really should bring that back…
The sad thing is, I think Pontoon won that a few times last season…
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
by loyal2theroyals on May 6, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Tonight's has to be either
Mike Jacobs – 3-run HR put us back in the game when it looked lost or
Jamey Wright – 3 innings of scoreless relief made our offensive futility non-fatal
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Ridiculous Zack Stats from Posnanski
My favorite:
5. The league is hitting .242/.294/.337 against him with nobody on base.
But the league is hitting .109/.136/.125 against him with runners on base.
And the league is hitting .097/.097/.097 against him with runners in scoring position.
Ridiculous. More here
Fangraph of the game...
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
by loyal2theroyals on May 6, 2009 12:52 AM EDT reply actions
Alright honestly guys..
is it really that fucking hard to see that Hillman doesnt like to or want to pitch Soria in non-save situations.. we go over this every fucking game.. he ISNT going to pitch in a non-save situation that often.. its not that hard to recognize that
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
by focs on May 6, 2009 12:52 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Sorry for the hostility..
im just tired of the same ol shit about why soria isnt pitching
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
by focs on May 6, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did you know that the last time we bitched about Soria not pitching enough over a handful of games that he turned out to be injured then too?
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ya.. i also know that he pitched after that
and was available to pitch the very next night
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
yeah, and it's stupid
it worked tonight
Royals baseball. Where .260 would be orgasmic.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
But he has last year
There must be something wrong.
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
Again.. he pitched rarely last year in tie games
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
no, I agree, that Hillman would benefit from using him in tie games on the road
but at home, I’m pretty sure he used him. I don’t have the time or energy to look up the exact usage though.
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
I'll bet you $100 that Soria is injured or experiencing soreness, tightness, etc.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
probably
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway - An Onymous
by ratherfantastic on May 6, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I mean, he used Soria in an extra innings, non-save situation in Minnesota
If he’d use him in that situation, then he’d use him tonight….if healthy and 100%.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
He also hadn't pitched in a long ass time and needed work bad..
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
He hadn't pitched...
…because he was injured. Get it?
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Just give it up
You’re not making sense.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
No your not making since.. that why I quit trying with you
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
And "sense"
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
And "you're"
"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"
Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split
and you should have put a comma after "No"
We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan
by Royal Kingdom on May 6, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Trey just said Soria was a "little stiff from three up and downs in two days"
Don’t know if that wins the bet for NY or not…technically, it’s not “soreness” or “tightness.” Just “stiffness.”
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
So, when I said "soreness, tightness, etc." doesn't "stiffness" count as "etc."?
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
"I don't know we'll have to go to the judges on that one."
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Let me consult the Rally Alpacas....
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on May 6, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
to defend focs kinda
Hillman did use Soria in Minnesota in a non save situation in Minnesota, BUT immediately after the game he said he doesn’t like to do that, and he can’t remember the last time he let him go more than an inning. Its on royals.com somewhere.
Anyways the point of that being that just because he used him in Minnesota in a similar situation doesn’t mean he even considered using him tonight, it actually makes it seem like he normally doesnt, and therefore he probably didn’t tonight.
So that doesn’t mean that hes def. hurt, but that also doesn’t mean he’s not hurt either…so NY you betting hes hurt doesn’t mean FOC is wrong to say what he said, so stop belittling him.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on May 6, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Of course he'd consider using him in this game if healthy
In 11 innings? He might not use him in the 9th (although he probably would at home). But he’d definitely use him in the 10th. So it was pretty clear that Soria wasn’t at 100% when he didn’t come in at any point in this game. That’s why I made the bet. That’s why I won it.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
your logic won out
Touche. But whats the difference between the 9th, 10th, 11th, etc in terms of leverage. Nothing really, right?
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
Probably little or no difference
Certainly like every other MLB manager, HIllman would prefer to save his pitcher for save situations. But, like all managers, he’s willing to use his closer in tie games in the 9th+ innings. He has done so more than once in the past. Like all managers he’s more willing to do this at home, where there will be no save situation in the 9th+ innings, as opposed to on the road.
If Soria were 100%, there’s no way Wright goes out there for a third inning. And almost certainly the guy who would come in after Wright would have been Soria.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ill take that bet..
I believe that Hillman thinks (along with me) that a closer is for closing out games.. hence the name.. not for tie games for for save situations.. while you might not agree with it.. thats why you have other pitchers in the bullpen for situations when the game is tied
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
If Hillman won't use Soria in non-save situations, why did he use him just a few days ago in Minnesota in a non-save situation in extra innings?
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
he's hurting. period. hopefully its just a day to day thing and nothing serious
maybe it was just because it was cold and wet. nothing but speculation. we’ll find out soon enough.
where tpj used to happen but no longer does due to his current dl status.
by blue bandwagon on May 6, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Hillman just said
“he is a little bit stiff from getting up and down multiple times the last three days and didnt want to press the issue about getting him up tonight”
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
There you go
As I said.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
but your all worried he was hurt
why would he be up that many times in the pen if he was hurt
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
Getting him up in the pen was how they learned that he's experiencing tightness/stiffness
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
NO absolutely not..
he was up in the pen soo much over the last couple days that he experienced tightness today.. not those days
Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.
When do I get my $100?
I take personal checks.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I said it was something physical. You said it was because Hillman won't use Soria in non-save situations.
Who was right? I’ll e-mail you my address for your check.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Good lord
I’m joking about wanting the money, but I said it was a physical problem, like soreness, tightness, etc. I was right, you were wrong, let’s move on.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
NYRoyal was right
not 1/3, but all the way
by I need more Esteban on May 6, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Someone who is watching the Postgame show,
If ya don’t mind, share some of whats said please
"I can resist everything but temptation." - oscar wylde
Jamie Quirk just said
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Black and Gold on May 6, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
trey hillman:
“i felt like he needed another day – that was my call, not his.” on joakim soria
realistically speaking
Trey: "I didn't want to force the envelope with him [Soria]."
Whatever that means.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
He said he was experiencing tightness
So he’s not 100% and Hillman didn’t want to push him (onto the DL).
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I know
I just like the phrase “force the envelope.” I may start using that in everyday conversation, just to see other peoples’ looks of confusion.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Words aren't his strong suit
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
he just said he had a little stiffness
and he didn’t see him being adamant as he usually is whenever he’s ok to pitch.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on May 6, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't get into a verbal war with Trey Hillman
there will be no survivors
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
It's one of those classic, Michael Scott combined metaphors.
“Force the issue” and “push the envelope”, in this case.
Treydaddy invents his own metaphors, dammit.
Thank Heaven he's not forcing the edge of the envelope
by BrRoyal on May 6, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I heard a reporter on Fox news this morning
(I was in the shop getting the oil changed) say something like
“We are facing down the barrel of a bayonet here”. – I didn’t even know they were hollow!
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
So.
I would bet that Cruz or Mahay could pitch if they had to.
Combined with HoRam and Farnsworth, and we should be OK.
As long as Ponson isn’t godawful.
Ponson needs a serious pick-me-up
and our offense needs to back him up for once.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway - An Onymous
by ratherfantastic on May 6, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe this is the team's way of sucking out all the poison
by doing bad when pontoon is on the mound.
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
by loyal2theroyals on May 6, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Good thing Willie didn't get the walk-off - sacrificing that goat I promised to the baseball Gods if WFB won the game would have been a huge pain.
I’m happy! Now the Royals will still be in first place place even after the M’s WAIL on you guys and win the series 2-0!!!!! Muwahahaha!
(I kid, I kid)
watch out, the pontoon boats comin to harbor.
"I can resist everything but temptation." - oscar wylde
"i felt like he needed another day – that was my call, not his." on joakim soria
“he’s not as stiff, 3 ups and down in two days… didn’t want to force the envelope… didn’t seem as adamant about feeling good as he usually is…” bla bla
realistically speaking
i really dont understand the saying of "didn't want to force the envelope" ..
"I can resist everything but temptation." - oscar wylde
maybe he said push
i was typing it as he talks, but then again, it’ trey
realistically speaking
It was "force"
“force the envelope” is my new favorite phrase
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
either that or "He's not a ___ specialist"
tough choice
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
not quite as good as "i didn't know you were going to ask a baseball question"
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on May 6, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
you're right,
that’s my favorite
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions
How about...
“He’s not an envelope forcing specialist.”
Perfect.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
or
How was I supposed to know he was going to force the envelope? I’m not a mailroom specialist?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
he played 2 games in a row recently.
is that pushing it?
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway - An Onymous
by ratherfantastic on May 6, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
If he's experiencing tightness/soreness/etc.
Then yeah, don’t push it and then rush him to the DL.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Page turing time at midnight...
can we grab the W tomorrow vs. Seattle? Pitching outlooks look dim.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway - An Onymous
by ratherfantastic on May 6, 2009 12:57 AM EDT reply actions
time for bed
final tomorrow at 11, still need to study! Have fun with the continuing banter re: Soria. Looks like it’ll be a doozy of a discussion.
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
The PR Move
Fine. It worked out in the end but isn’t the bigger point (the one someone already made during the game thread) that if you were going to replace Jose and Billy, shouldn’t it have been done as soon as they got on base?
That way, Mitch couldve possibly scored from first on the double?
by Raisethefencesbackto12feet on May 6, 2009 1:01 AM EDT reply actions
hmmm...it's a close call.
i probably wouldn’t have. once it’s a definite sac fly situation….then i might’ve. but i also might have left those guys on and not pinch-run.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on May 6, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Putting in Maier was an ok call. A toss up. But putting in Bloomquist to run for Butler in the 7th was a bad call in my opinion.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
we were missing the grit, trey knew the game was gunna be a tough one,
and he had to add the grit.
"I can resist everything but temptation." - oscar wylde
That's what I thought of at first.
But, what other people said and is almost assuredly correct, is that Trey wanted to make sure we would have a good shot at taking the lead.
Otherwise, you want another potential Jose Guillen AB in the 9th inning.
But when we had 0 outs and a guy at 3rd, it makes sense to try and get a sac fly.
as a general rule, I hate all pinch-running in late game situations, especially in a tie game
and they way things played out in subsequent innings showed why
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
not a big fan, in general, I'd have to look back at the situations
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Chi walked Teahen to get to Maier....
then walked AC to get to Buck, I believe.
I agreed with both moves. Make the worst players beat you.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on May 6, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
you take your chances with that
chances callaspo beats you with runners at 2nd & 3rd with one out is much greater than the chances john buck (who was 0-5) beats you with bases loaded….not just because Buck is not as good of a hitter, but also because of the force play being available at any base with the ibb.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on May 6, 2009 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
It's sleep time for me...
hooray for waking up at 5:30! ugghhh
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway - An Onymous
It could be worse
You could live in the crappy eastern time zone. It’s after 1 here :(
Go Jamie Quirk.
Talking about Coco Crisp:
“Forget about the average. It’s the base on balls, getting on base.”
To me
Coco’s been the difference this season and no, I don’t have a kajillion stats to back that statement up.
right on, 4 walks tonight? all were important even if he didn't score.
"I can resist everything but temptation." - oscar wylde
So Im feeling really good about...
My bet on who will win more games… Royals or Yankees (at least as of right now)
Are you telling me Jesus Christ cant hit a curve ball?
This was really cool
Good way to end the night. I’m sorry if I offended anyone with my comment. But I do love me some John Buck, and you should too or you’re all terrible people.
Great win. 16-11 is pretty cool looking.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
I'm still amazed at Saturday, Sunday, and tonight's win
Monday’s wasn’t so bad either.
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
yay winnings bizzarre games
deal with the quick exit of the “Big Three” talk later
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Mr. -90?
No, he sucks and he’ll always suck.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
you're right, guys with his stuff and more BBs than Ks usually post ERAs under 3.00
by Freneau on May 6, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
No, he's not a sub-3.00 ERA pitcher
He’s a decent pitcher, and has performed that way so far. Instead of just looking at the number of BB’s and K’s, let’s look at the best metric for evaluating pitching performance: tRA, which includes those events, and HR’s and batted ball data. His tRA+ is 110. That’s more than a little better than average. According to Matt Carruth at Stat Corner, over the last two years, the average tRA+ a #2 starter has been 112. So, one could give credit where credit is due.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions
TAKE SIDES NOW!
The classic matchup makes its way to center stage.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
For the record, I still think Banny will be a roughly average #4 SP
(which is also what the average of his projections said)
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Some thoughts.
I didn’t get in to catch the game until the 7th, and last I knew we were down 5-1, so seeing that it was 7-6 pumped me up.
Hillman deserves credit for what I saw from that point on. I’m not sure I’d have run for Butler, but I can’t fault him for it either. He set up the situation he wanted, and he got it; if it works, odds are very good that neither pinch-runner steps to the plate anyway. You might blame Owen for sending Mitch on such a short fly, but it was at least a go-for-the-throat move. (And Maier was safe, damnit.)
Beyond that, I’m just slack-jawed at the approach at the plate tonight. I’ve never seen so many 3-2 counts in my life. And lo and behold, 11 walks (albeit a couple intentional). Just fantastic stuff, and furthers my opinion that this offense is not nearly as bad as we “feel” it is.
Hell of an outing for Jamie, and he made a couple of guys look absolutely stupid in the process.
And finally, we go back to Hillman, who made the right calls in the 11th. Bloomquist is a player of limited skills, but the skills he does have, he has in abundance. That was exactly the right place to call for the hit-and-run, and props to Trey for that. Sending Bloomquist against expected defensive indifference to eliminate the DP was gravy. (And a special shout-out to Jacobs, whose final at-bat was legitimately professional; he knew what he was trying to accomplish, and he worked the count to get there. Can’t complain about the line drive that ensued.)
This space for rent.
Oh, and let's not forget the new MVP
Callaspo was hitting .378 10 games ago. He’s hitting .379 now, because he’s hit .3788 in his last 10 games. THAT, my friends, is just creepy, to be honest.
This space for rent.
it's like I said in the thread
it’s time to start asking “who is more on fire, Greinke or Callaspo?”
They’re both obviously going to regress. Zack is also obviously playing closer to his “true talent.” But what Callaspo is doing right now is just ridiculous. Someone buy that man a drink!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Nonsense.
How can you seriously argue that Callaspo can’t maintain a .390 BABIP? Pfft.
This space for rent.
heh
yeah, but I I was actually trying to praise him more t han deflate expectations.
I’m trying not to buy in too hard — two avies starts into the season, and I forgot all the “one month + a couple good starts doesn’t mean much” conditioning. So, yeah, Callaspo’s secon half last year + this first month shouldn’t sway me too much…
but man, doesn’t it feel like Aviles last year? Where he just smacks the ball around no matter how improbable it seems?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
The difference being, of course
that we’ve always KNOWN Callaspo could hit. What we didn’t know, or even suspect, was that he could hit the ball for extra bases…
This space for rent.
Keith Law says it is pretty clear that Callaspo is only a singles hitter
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions
(trying hard not to make a tasteless joke about who knows how hard Callaspo can hit)
Seems like a classic Angels prospect. Sort of Howie Kendrick, with better strike zone judgment (ok, that makes him atypical for the Angels), but less physical tools, speed, defense, power, etc. Obviously he’s hitting a lot better than Kendrick at the moment, but you know what I mean.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
He didn't hit his wife. He kicked her.
It’s a fine distinction.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I don't know the details, but that was what was in the police report
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions
0.07%
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There are so many people on this board obsessed with finding mistakes with Hillman..
We are freaking 16-11…GET OVER IT! Hindsight is 20/20.
Beyond making game calls is managing behind the scenes and in the clubhouse. This team has more fight than any Royals team I have ever seen in my life. He gets some credit for that!
by hwcasey12 on May 6, 2009 1:33 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The positioning of your post is irony of the highest order
considering I’ve been one of the most vocal supporters of the “Hillman’s an idiot” club, and you posted right after I basically gave him credit for the win.
This space for rent.
I wasn't talking about your post specifically...
I have been a vocal supporter…I just get on here for the games and it seems like he is constantly 2nd guessed and trashed based on a very small window of decisions and anything good is ignored. As if the Royals always start 16-11.
Their a bunch of posters who don’t like him and WANT to find something wrong. That might not be you, but they are not hard to find on this board.
No, it IS me.
I didn’t say I’m a vocal supporter of Hillman, I said I’m a vocal supporter of calling him an idiot.
And yet, even I had to admit he managed a good game tonight, at least from the 7th on. THAT’s why the timing of your post was funny.
This space for rent.
Jon said he only watched the 7th inning on.
So, I’m assuming he’s saying merely that he can’t comment on the first 6 innings.
Hillman is an idiot
But talented teams, or teams that just put it together on any given night can still make up for questionable decisions. Hell Doc Rivers won an NBA championship last year.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
Fans love to bitch about their team's manager
It’s what fans do. It’s like breathing.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Fans bitch about their manager a lot more when the team is losing
But Royals fans have a long history of losing and a long history of bitching about poor managers. It’s going to take a lot of winning for fans to get used to it.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
haha...good point...hard to act like you've been there.
I am a “coach’s” son…I am just use to anything and everything being blamed on them. Easy target.
Even the great Dick Howser was grilled on almost a nightly basis
If he wouldn’t have been fortunate enough to be the manager when they won it all in 1985, he would be remembered as a marginally good manager. Some of his decisions in the postseason in 1984 & 85 were very questionable.
Yeah, but he still
absolutely managed the pants off Bobby Cox in the ’85 ALCS. I mean, he took him to school.
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what a horrific image you put in my mind, morse
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I know any mention of Toronto
getting pantsed disturbs you.
Really, it’s why I said it.
This space for rent.
Well ya
But don’t you think he’s made some poor decisions. I’ve been mad about his use of the bullpen. Except for letting Wright pitch multiple innings on a semi frequent basis. I have actually LOVED his late game substitutions, and I didn’t think the pinch running was too bad tonight, so I’m not upset about it. I don’t think that’s unfair.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
Ya he has made some bad decisions and will again...there are 162 games!
But some of his so called bad decisions were not bad until the outcome was bad….if it had gone good no one would have complained.
ARE YOU SMOKING
ok sorry about that….
We won some games where we started scream as soon as he botched who he put in in high leverage late inning situations (FARNSWORTH). We bitched when we signed him, we bitched when he gets put in, we bitch when he loses games.
Don’t say that unless it goes bad we don’t notice a bad decision. And putting in gopher ball with people on base is dumb.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
We shouldn't have paid him
and no you DO NOT have to use him. The managers job is to win, not worry about what the GM paid the players on the roster. I disagree with you completely.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on May 6, 2009 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
you world view is so easy and simple...
upper mgmt (dayton moore) needed to see Farnsworth FAIL…
by hwcasey12 on May 6, 2009 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If they could use statistics
They would have already known this. Thats why WE ALL, and I mean pretty much everyone on RR was mad when they signed him.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
Stop with the get over it, it happened
and the hyperboles, and the stop analyzing results.
IF you don’t like to analyze results and statistics and decisions just read the morning paper and see if we won or not.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on May 6, 2009 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You mean like putting the Professor in to pitch to
home-run hitters with the game on the line?
Come on. That’s a bad decision, even when it somehow works out. That’s the sort of thing most of us go batshit about, and nobody in their right mind could ever think that letting Kyle Farnsworth pitch to Jim Thome when he’s the game-winning run is a smart thing.
No, we call him out for clearly stupid shit, and we give him credit when he makes a good call.
This space for rent.
credit for Trey is FEW and FAR BETWEEN on this board.
by hwcasey12 on May 6, 2009 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Of course he's made some poor decisions
And he’s made some good decisions. That’s what managers do. It’s like evaluating a hitter and saying, sure he got a hit in 40% of his at bats, but he made an out in the other 60%. We have a right to bitch about the 60% failure of that .400 hitter! You have to judge a player or manager by a reasonable scale. Or one could just bitch about every little judgment call a manager makes and blow them out of proportion (I’m not saying that you, per se, are doing this. But there is a lot of that among the fanbase).
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Well hitting a baseball and putting in a pitcher are different
Its not like 40 percent of the time Soria comes in and sucks, and 60% of the time he does great.
I’m trying to say its a lot easier with the help of statistics to know probable outcomes and put in the correct player for the situation than it is for a player to come in and do it. I wouldn’t get mad at hillman if he put in soria in the 8th and he blew a game once in awhile. That is still the best statistical play.
Managers CAN (i mean by can, can make mistakes without me getting mad) but they should do them far far far less often than players having a bad game.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
What tcon just said
even harkens back to a situation last year, when I first started questioning Hillman’s intelligence: he let Gobble pitch to Kotchman when Kotchman was hitting well over .500 against lefties, instead of walking him to set up the DP with Hunter at the plate.
(And I started bitching about that before Kotchman planted one in the seats, too.)
This space for rent.
THANK YOU FOR THE HYPERBOLE AGAIN
Didn’t you just see me agree that a manager maybe affects 3 to 5 % of the end outcomes, not 100%.
I don’t understand how you can’t take an arguement without taking it to the extreme.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
b/c that is what is happening everyone's judgment of Trey!
if the Royals or Farnswroth loses…it is 100% on Trey
So you are saying...
That Farnsworth should pitch in crucial situations?
Are you telling me Jesus Christ cant hit a curve ball?
by averagegatsby on May 6, 2009 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Not now?
So you agree that Farnsworth shouldn’t be pitched in close situations, when everyone else but you and Hillman didn’t.
Go look at the game logs, 90% of the comments predicted the HR to Thome
Are you telling me Jesus Christ cant hit a curve ball?
by averagegatsby on May 6, 2009 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions
that didn't come out right.
Regardless there was plenty of evidence that showed that Farnsworth should never be pitched in close situations.
Are you telling me Jesus Christ cant hit a curve ball?
by averagegatsby on May 6, 2009 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Nope
Didn’t say that. I said using Farnsworth in a high leverage late inning situation with people on base and a lefty who kills hard throwing righties is batting then it was a bad decision. Its not completely on him, or farns, but it was still a bad call.
Bad calls can happen, im not saying hang the guy, I just wish he wouldnt do that, or we had a manager who didn’t think so old school, as in closers only pitch in save situations, or we have to have a K here so bring in farns.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
No, they wouldn't.
You’re failing to see the greater point. Yes, had Hillman ordered an IBB to Kotchman in that situation, Hunter might well have smacked a double into the gap on the next pitch. These are things that happen.
But it’s the manager’s job to understand his player’s strengths and weaknesses, and the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition. If I, who do not rely financially on my knowledge of the players in this game, intuitively understand that Kotchman has a reverse platoon split and that Farnsworth should never be allowed to pitch to home-run hitters with the game on the line, why doesn’t Trey?
I give him credit tonight for tactical decisions which were sound. I fault him for tactical decisions in the past which were not. But if Hillman made a decision which was sound and which failed spectacularly, I’d still defend his decision. Do you see?
This space for rent.
Then every manager in the game would disappoint you
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions
For instance, why didn't Guillen put his closer (by far his best reliever) into this game?
Managers do this kind of thing all the time. It’s also not uncommon for them to misjudge the true talent level of veteran relievers and overuse them.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions
yes... though I must again say
I’m not sure this shouldn’t mean we can’t complain about it.
Baseball is game of failure, but we should still be able to complain when Player X strikes out.
+200
but only if it’s John Buck
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That seems awfully high for his strikeout total for the year
I don’t think he’ll get enough PAs :)
I'm not saying one can't complain about it
But one should do it in context. Or at least understand and recognize the context. When Player X strikes out, there aren’t many complaints, because it is just one event among many. Any time Hillman brings in the pitcher that some didn’t like, people lose their shit. There’s no recognition of how good/bad Hillman is in comparison to the rest of MLB managers. There’s no recognition of the fact that Hillman manages just like pretty much every other manager. People just act like he’s incredibly stupid and much worse than most managers.
I mean, I could whine and complain every time DeJesus struck out, but would that make any sense? No, but I guess I’d have a “right” to.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, that was a mistake.
The fans on the White Sox boards knew it, we knew it, it is not unreasonable to expect a manager not to make those mistakes.
No manager is going to be perfect, but when obvious mistakes are being made, the fans will naturally point them out. Here is another mistake, Luis Hernandez did not even have a reason to be on the team in an 11 inning game. He should not be on the roster, and we should bring up another bat.
Go Royals!
Managers don't ultimately make those calls
that is for General Managers to decide who comes up
by I need more Esteban on May 6, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
No, Hillman gets blamed for everything!
That is, unless we’re in Moore-bashing mode, in which case he gets blamed for everything, including how players on the 25-man roster are used in games.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
incorrect.
Witness Buck and DDJ lynching last night
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on May 6, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
The get over thing...
Remember everything is not black and white, just because we won doesn’t mean we are perfect, or the manager put together the perfect gameplan. For that reason in loses we can say wow that guy did well, or in wins we can say wow that guy sucked, or that decision could have cost us in other games. Hillman has cost us games before, but his questionable substitutions didn’t tonight.
Thankyou for the hyperbole which took everything I said out of context to the extreme. Thanks. The most talented team with the high payroll doesn’t go 162-0 and the least talented doesn’t go 0-162. Its baseball. A bad manager can cause a team idk 5 games. A bad reliever can cost them what 3 in April, believe me I’ve seen it happen.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
Soria just exagerates everything
because he’s so insanely good, we don’t have much around him, and because closers are so typically mismanaged
perfect storm for second-guessing
Ya, good point!
But once again…everyone was bitching about Trey when they didn’t have all the info (when he was hurt).
It's one thing to bitch about
“not using Soria.” It’s another entirely to bitch about “using Farnsworth.” You can’t get past the fact that Trey’s inappropriate usage of the Professor is the difference between us being (a very pleasant) 16-11 and (an out-of-this-world-let’s-all-get-giddy) 19-8.
This space for rent.
I will not agree that it cost us 3 games...that is a HUGE stretch and you are counting on improbably outcomes.
Farnsworth got the big money and upper mgmt needed to see him fail.
Really? You don't agree that it cost us 3 games?
Then what, pray tell, is that “3” after the hyphen in Farnsworth’s record?
This space for rent.
Have to agree here
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions
No you don't
because you also agree that Farnsworth had no business stepping onto the mound any of those three times. You know damn well those were failed decisions.
This space for rent.
I recognize his bad decisions
And I recognize his good decisions. And I recognize that Hillman is virtually indistinguishable from pretty much every other MLB manager. So complaining about him being like every other manager seems pointless. And I do agree that using pitcher L’s as a measuring stick is a poor way to evaluate a pitcher.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Which managers do you really think
would have let Farnsworth pitch to Thome?
Be serious now.
This space for rent.
What I think is that managers not infrequently make that kind of mistake
Maybe most wouldn’t have used Farnsworth. But I can pick out a situation or two (or three or four) from every manager this year where he used a likely lesser, veteran reliever over other, likely better relievers. It’s not uncommon at all. Sure it was stupid and worthy of criticism. But it is a very non-unique criticism.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that one mistake,
in particular, was so egregious as to be worthy of mention, though. And I also believe it is a mistake whose level of error was such that most managers would not, in fact, make an error of similar magnitude. Some certainly would, don’t get me wrong. But a mistake of that magnitude… that IS the difference between good and bad managers.
This space for rent.
Name me your top 10 managers, and I'll find a mistake similar to that for each of them
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions
On Opening Day?....here's tossing out a few...
Torre
Scoscia
Gardenhire
Manuel
Gaston
Go.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on May 6, 2009 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait, I have to find an opening day mistake for them?
Is opening day a higher leverage managing situation? Your evaluative criteria are…unique.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Is that right, Fernando?
And is that seriously your list of the top 5 managers? Really?
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I just threw out five guys...
no particular order…..you said you’d find mistakes. Go.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on May 6, 2009 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok
I’m going to have to go through box scores and PBP logs. Check back in this space sometime later Wednesday.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Cito Gaston
has never even made a mistake. Hell, Toronto never should have fired him to begin with!
This space for rent.
What I could find in a quick look through some of their games
Scioscia – April 7, tied 3-3 in the 7th. Mike puts in Kevin Jepsen despite the availability of Arredondo, Speier and Shields. He leaves him in the entire inning to give up 4 hits and 2 runs. Angels lose.
Manuel – April 28, Mets up 4-3 in the 7th inning. Manuel puts in Green despite the availability of Putz, Feliciano and Stokes. He leaves Green in the game for the full inning to give up 4 runs. Mets lose.
Gardenhire – April 13, Twins up 6-5. 7th inning, 2 outs, 1 on. Gardy puts in Ayala even though Crain and other, better relievers are available. He leaves Ayala in long enough to give up 4 hits and 2 runs. Twins lose.
Gaston – April 17, 5-5 tie in the 7th. Cito puts in League despite the availability of Camp, Downs and others. He leaves him in there for 2 full innings to give up 3 runs. BJ’s lose.
A quick look didn’t reveal anything glaring for Torre.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 5:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Torre is amazing!!!!
Numbah 1 manager!!!
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
Here's the question:
Did/do Jepsen, Green, Ayala, and/or League have critical flaws or weaknesses which were ripe for exploitation by the hitter(s) they were due to face? Did inserting any of them into the game scream “I am not only defying conventional wisdom, I am deliberately holding a match up to a gas pump to see what happens”?
And for the love of god, I hope Fernando meant Charlie Manuel rather than Jerry. Jerry Manuel IS an idiot.
This space for rent.
Did/do Jepsen, Green, Ayala, and/or League have critical flaws or weaknesses which were ripe for exploitation by the hitter(s) they were due to face? Did inserting any of them into the game scream "I am not only defying conventional wisdom, I am deliberately holding a match up to a gas pump to see what happens"?
Yes and yes. Actually, with regard to the second question, how was Hillman defying conventional wisdom? Because he put in a pitcher who was projected to be a slightly below average reliever in the 8th inning in a close game? Or because there was a better setup man who he could have gone with? Or because he could have gone with a lefty-lefty matchup? If it is those factors which lead you to characterize that decision as “deliberately holding a match up to a gas pump” then the answer is clearly yes. And that kind of thing happens in MLB frequently.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, come on now.
If the game thread erupts with comments which boil down to “Oh, great, Thome’s going to jack one off the Professor,” then it’s at best naive and at worst mendacious to even ask me how Hillman was defying conventional wisdom.
So, I will ask you again, in different terms: do you think fans of the Angels, Mets, Twins, and Blue Jays erupted in paroxysms of “Oh, hell, there goes the ballgame now” upon seeing Jepsen/Ayala/Green/League walking out of the bullpen? Or are you confusing “a decision which would be difficult to defend” with “a completely indefensible decision”?
This space for rent.
Or are you confusing "a decision which would be difficult to defend" with "a completely indefensible decision"?
That’s a fine distinction. Fans overreact about all kinds of things. And if you are seriously asking if fans of those teams whined, moaned, bitched and complained about those decisions, then the answer is a definitely YES.
In short, that decision apparently looked like the most stupid, indefensible, unbelievable move (as opposed to just a poor reliever decision not much worse than many other managers’ pitching mistakes this season) to Royals fans because we are so close to it. Because it involves the Royals, it’s magnified, and the overreactions are predictable.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
And if you are seriously asking if fans of those teams whined, moaned, bitched and complained about those decisions, then the answer is a definitely YES.
Did they do it before anything bad happened? Can you show me?
I mean, I don’t need to show you where I and several other people said “Here comes a homer.” You already saw it.
I think you’re in a hole here, trying to defend a basic principle against the vagaries of a singular occurence. Do not misunderstand me; I agree with your basic premise as a general rule. Managers are essentially fungible. But what you’re not letting go of is a couple of things:
One, this move (these moves, really, because bringing him in to face Young was almost as bad) was SO bad that it calls the manager’s judgment into question.
I do not mean it calls the decision into question; that is indisputable. I mean it calls the manager’s ability to even make such decisions into question, because if dozens of us schlubs out here on teh intarwebs knew it was a mistake before the batter even left the on-deck circle, the manager should know. He has to know. And unless he just lied through his teeth in the post-game to save face, he didn’t know. (Oh, and let’s not forget that whole “throw AC and DDJ under the bus” bit, either.)
Two: Farnsworth isn’t the only beneficiary of Hillman’s unique inability to judge. Gload. Gobble. “Well, that didn’t work out” after one game of Aviles. The man has absolutely ZERO comprehension of measuring performance; he ignores the fact that players suck when he has clearly better options who are actually part of the franchise’s future, he ignores unignorable platoon splits, he thought one 0-for from Aviles was more telling than over a month of TPJ’s brilliant offense, and he thinks letting a right-handed power pitcher with the propensity to give up homers throw to lefties who eat fastballs for breakfast, brunch, lunch, tea, dinner, and fourthmeal is a good idea.
He doesn’t get it in ways which exceed the structural tolerance of the position. I understand your position that it’s not like there’s a Casey Stengel or Earl Weaver just waiting to take his place. But that does NOT mean the guy’s not a bad manager.
Fortunately (or unfortunately, as it were), I think it’ll all work out in the end. I mean, even Jim Frey managed a World Series team.
This space for rent.
by jonfmorse on May 6, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
To you point
about predicting what was going to happen I will say that is crap. There are countless times that people predict things and they don’t happen either, so getting a few right is bound to happen.
I know this because I always call people out on it when they are like, “Oh damnit why did you bring in Tejeda instead of Wright, he’s going to lose this game, you moron!” Then Tejeda strikes out 2 guys and the prediction was totally off. For as many times people predicted the right things in game threads, there are 5 that were wrong.
by I need more Esteban on May 6, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
no chance those fans complained about those decisions
like the Farns. NONE.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on May 6, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you sure that Royals fans are really that much better complainers than other fans? I mean, it’s possible. Royals fans really do bitch and whine very, very well. But I’m not sure we’re that much better than every other team’s fans.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
those guys you brought up are not the whipping boys with the reputations for being total crap like Fransworth. That is my point. Not whatever you’re saying.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on May 6, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, I'll tell you what.
Instead of 19-8, how about 18-9?
Because Farnsworth twice gave up walk-off moonshots to guys he had no business pitching to at all.
This space for rent.
Does Hillman get any credit
for now not using Farnsworth in high-leverage situations? I mean we can’t get those games back and it really sucked that we lost them. But once Hillman saw that one of the big signings in the bullpen couldn’t handle the job, he hasn’t used him in those situations since.
He gets no credit there?
by I need more Esteban on May 6, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure.
I just think it’s a lesson he needn’t have learned via experience. I mean, my mom TOLD me what would happen if I put my hand on the burner on the stove, and she told me in graphic detail. What would y’all think of me if I told you that I just HAD to find out for myself?
This space for rent.
haha point taken
I look at it as if you don’t try, then you’ll never know. You can look at all the stats you want, but things fully come into place when you see a player perform or not perform in that Royal Blue. Trey had to see him not perform with us….However, I will never defend bringing him in Opening Day against Thome, that was awful.
by I need more Esteban on May 6, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, it's too bad Farnsworth didn't have any prior history to draw on
oh well, at leat he never came in in a crucial situation again
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Usual snark ignored
The Rangers game was bad but not as bad as Thome, and the other one that he lost I think is blown way out of proportion, I wasn’t following the game but if I remember right, Mahay or some other reliever really sucked too and it was the 6th or 7th. There are only so many guys out there in the bullpen.
by I need more Esteban on May 6, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
true
while Hillman had seen Farnsworth pitch before, and in a Royals uniform, he hadn’t seen Farnsworth pitch in Royals blue against the Rangers.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
you'll never know until I get the chance to do so while actually playing for the Royals
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions