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What do you do when you have 5 players for 4 positions?

Everyone has been enchanted by Alberto Callaspo's amazing start.  Inteestingly, this performance was made possible by Alex Gordon's hip injury.  So many of us have wondered what might happen or what should happen when Gordon comes back.  Suddenly there would be too many players for too few positions.  There has been talk about potentially moving Gordon or Teahen to first base, or some other significant position change.  This is what I would do:

Star-divide

C - Buck

1B - Butler

2B - Callaspo

3B - Gordon

SS - Aviles

LF - DeJesus

CF - Crisp

RF - Teahen

DH - Jacobs/Guillen platoon

Now this demotion of Guillen might lead to some kind of epic explosion in the clubhouse, but I'd do it anyway.  But the above is unrealistic.  It's fun to discuss, but like using a 4-man rotation or making Soria a starter, it just isn't going to happen.  Unless he is injured, Trey Hillman is going to keep Guillen in RF.  So, within the bounds of realism, what are the Royals options?  I think the following are positions are, for all intents and purposes, immutable:

C - Buck or Olivo (for the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't matter which one as they are the two catchers and those are the only positions they can play, other than DH)

SS - Aviles

LF - DeJesus

CF - Crisp

RF - Guillen

That leaves five players (Gordon, Teahen, Callaspo, Butler and Jacobs) for four positions (3B, 2B, 1B, and DH).  I would suggest the following:

C - Buck

1B - Butler

2B - Teahen/Callaspo

3B - Gordon

SS - Aviles

LF - DeJesus

CF - Crisp

RF - Guillen

DH - Jacobs

The key to my plan would be Teahen and Callaspo.  I am not suggesting any kind of platoon.  My idea is to use them both nearly everyday by starting one and using the other to give a day off to another player.  Teahen's versatility would allow it to work something like this:

Day 1 - DeJesus gets a day off (Teahen to LF, Callaspo to 2B

Day 2 - Crisp gets a day off (Teahen to LF, DeJesus to CF, Callaspo to 2B)

Day 3 - Guillen gets a day off (Teahen to RF, Callaspo to 2B)

Day 4 - Butler gets a day off (Teahen to 1B, Callaspo to 2B)

Day 5 - Jacobs gets a day off (Teahen to DH, Callaspo to 2B, or vice versa)

Day 6 - Gordon gets a day off (Teahen to 3B, Callaspo to 2B)

Day 7 - Callaspo gets a day off (Teahen to 2B)

Day 8 - Teahen gets a day off (Callaspo to 2B)

[I would also occasionally sit Aviles against a RHP and put Callaspo at SS, but I don't think Trey Hillman sees Callaspo as anything but an emergency SS, so I'm not going to include that possibility as it is unrealistic.]

Now, I recognize that not all of the above players are likely to get a day off in 1 out of every 7 games.  But, by the same token, Jacobs could be sat twice in a week when there are some lefty starters (as he has already this season).  Regardless, some version of the above is a good way to get both Teahen and Callaspo starts in 5-7 games a week.  And this is tweakable by having Teahen play more second base and having Callaspo move to the OF sometimes if you want Teahen to get more work at second so he continues to develop as a middle IFer.

One of the reasons I think this is doable is that in the long, hot summer and late in this long season, it's going to be good to give frequently injured players like Crisp, DeJesus and Guillen some days off.  I think it will also be a good idea to give Gordon a regular day off as he comes back from his injury.  Also, Jacobs shouldn't face too many lefty starters.  Add that all up and you've got a lot of opportunities to give 10 starters nearly full-time work.

And, of course, if someone goes on the DL or if Teahen or Callaspo crater, this kind of depth helps the Royals keep going possibly without breaking stride.

Comment 207 comments  |  6 recs  | 

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Wow

Great stuff.

This looks like it would be very do-able and would be a great way to get guys some rest. Teahen really is valuable with his versatility.

by I need more Esteban on May 6, 2009 4:25 PM EDT reply actions  

I really like the idea.

But I hope it doesn’t happen. To answer the question of the post, What do you do when you have 5 players for 4 spots?, you trade one. That comes down to either Teahen or Gordon. Most likely Teahen. If he keeps hitting like this then he probably should be traded for SS help, pitching help, or an OF.

by Chyladin on May 6, 2009 4:32 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't think a trade is a good idea

A good team needs good depth. Nine quality position players isn’t enough (especially when we aren’t talking about nine stars). And I don’t think Teahen would bring a huge haul in trade.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Besides, haven't we tried to trade him enough?

The last couple years and trade deadlines, there have been rumored deals. Yet, he is having his best start to a season right now, since he has joined us. Maybe, just maybe, THIS is finally the time that he’s putting it all together…

I mean, he’s gotta be getting close to done with his arbitration years. He’s gonna want a long term deal. Nice time for him to step up. Maybe it has something to do with being back at 3B again. Worked last time he was there for an extended time (‘06), didn’t it??

Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: 4 (as of April 23rd)
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by Andy Edwards on May 6, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the difference is that now he is reestablishing himself at 3rd.

He biggest value is as a third basemen. If he continues to play as a quality, everyday 3rd basemen for the next couple of weeks I think the Royals would be stupid to not look around and see what they could get for him in a trade. Maybe they can get something they need (an everyday SS, starting pitcher, or better catcher) rather than keeping was isn’t an essential piece of a championship team. Yes, I agree that depth is important. But when I look at the playoff teams of the last couple of years I see organization depth and quality reserves, but not the Jack-of-all trades type player Teahen has become. I do; however, see quality lineups and rotations with very few holes. That is something the Royals cannot yet boast.

by Chyladin on May 6, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tried to trade Teahen?

That’s an absolute lie

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I tend to agree with you

on many of your posts, Dedos de Diablo.

Come on, Annie, think of something clever to say, huh? Something full of magic, religion, bullshit. Come on, dazzle me.

by BillyMojo on May 6, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I completely agree.....

I think the team would be much better off using the musical chairs rotation of all these guys. Also, in a long season you need to find the “hot hand” and i also agree with the depth being important. I think its unrealistic to think Callaspo, Teahen, etc. are going to continue this amazing start. So with the rotations proposed you could sit a guy who is struggling/fatigued. Also, if you are going to bother to try and trade the question would be, “Could you get something to really benefit the club right now?” In my opinion, I dont think that trade is going to be out there. Also, I think we need to be very very patient with Gordon’s return to the lineup. We can only hope that the success continues and the transition for Gordon can be at his body’s pace versus a rushed return for a slumping ballclub. And NYRoyal, you were correct about me overreacting to RoyalRetro’s comment. We re all here for the right reasons and there was no reason to get chippy. I imagine the medicine for anyone having a bad day/week would be to see the flying dutchmen have a quality start and get his first win. Strangely enough, if he does get his first win that would take the good guys to .500 in non Greinke starts. Thats important if we want to make a run b/c Greinke’s masterful pace is going to slow down and contributions from a struggling Davies, a cross your fingers and pray Ponson, and a hot Bannister with mediocre stuff are going to be the guys that decide what the future holds this season.

by 2LegittoShit on May 6, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I imagine the medicine for anyone having a bad day/week would be to see the flying dutchmen have a quality start and get his first win.

My best case scenario is a little different. I would actually like for the Royals to score a bunch of runs giving the Royals the win despite Ponson getting knocked around. A bad start from Ponson means Hochevar is that much closer to coming to KC.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hear ya for sure and I am no Ponson fan believe me but.....

Dont you think there is a reason Hoch isnt up yet? I hear that the club questions his tenacity/intensity. His grit, if you will. I respect your opinion up and down this site so explain a plausible reason he is not up right now. Did they expect Banny to just be average for a couple and then send him back down? Or is it possible that there is room for both of them in the rotation?

by 2LegittoShit on May 6, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's almost certainly a service time issue

We want him under team control through 2014 rather than 2013. By keeping him in Omaha until some still unknown date in May, we accomplish this.

"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"

Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split

by DCRoyals on May 6, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

that

and I think there is something to be said for dominating levels, he never dominated AAA and he is close (not quite) to doing that. There is no rush right now and I think this time in Omaha can only help Hochevar.

by I need more Esteban on May 6, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

mmmm no expert

but I’m not sure how much that matters. I think it can be a good thing for some but not sure how much it means if they “don’t have it”. Like I said, though, my opinion on this matter is amateur at best.

by I need more Esteban on May 6, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I don't buy into the tenacity/grit/intensity stuff

What the Royals have said about Hochevar is that he hasn’t been able to maintain his stuff in the middle innings, so he wasn’t ready to go deep into games. I don’t know if that is true, or if his demotion was about the service time issue. I really doubt it was about silliness like grit. Regardless, he appears to be pitching well by primary stats, peripherals, batted ball data and just about any way you want to slice it. The only reason to keep him down at this point is if the FO thinks the magic service time day hasn’t been hit yet. It sure looks like he’s ready to be a decent MLB starting pitcher right now.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

No.

Every contending team requires good players to fill in. You trade one of them, the other goes down, boom goes your season.

You trade when you have two guys who can only cover for one another, or when you have an over-abundance of talent at one position. When you have a guy who’s as versatile as Teahen… no.

This space for rent.

by jonfmorse on May 6, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Very rarely do you see contending teams trade starting players mid-season. We want the best chance to win, even if that means a starting player sitting the bench now and then.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on May 6, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

How many times does a starting player get moved to the bench then??

If Teahen is a contributing member of a first place team when Gordon comes back, then by your logic, maybe he shouldn’t be replaced by Gordon.

by Chyladin on May 6, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it shows how it can be accomplished . . . .

. . . . but what playoff team has done this? My arguments against keeping him on the bench is dependent upon him having trade value. If other teams don’t value him in a trade as a starting 3rd baseman, then it probably doesn’t make since to trade him. But if they do, you should be able to get significant in an area of need for him. (or for Gordon if they have the marbles to move him).

by Chyladin on May 6, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

but what playoff team has done this?

Let’s see…

The 1978 Royals had Clint Hurdle racking up 481 PA despite not being the “starting” anything.

Despite all 9 starters in the batting order managing at least 438 PA, John Wathan had 510 PA for the 1980 Royals. I think they played in some Big Series of some sort.

Jorge Orta had 438 PA in 1984, and 330 in 1985 (when, of course, we stole the World Series from those bastards on the Mississippi).

Last year, the Phillies and Rays BOTH had TWO guys who were not starters yet compiled over 300 PA; in fact, the Phillies had FOUR non-starters over 230.

Really, need I go on?

This space for rent.

by jonfmorse on May 6, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll concede the point that depth is needed and helpful

But I still think that an everyday starter upgrade (such as Catcher or SS) or another Starting pitcher will do as much as or more to help the team as having Teahen jumping around the diamond everyday.

by Chyladin on May 7, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

It all depends on what the Royals could get for Teahen

The problem is that another team that needs a 3B is only going to make such a trade in-season if they feel like they are contenders. And a contender isn’t going to trade one of their good starters (catcher, ss, SP, etc.) to get him. It would be creating a hole to fill a hole.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 7, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pujols WOULD be a nice little platoon at 1B with Jacobs and Butler

Pujols could start against lefties with Butler. An abundance of riches!!

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

I was thinking with my bat again.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

if we throw in

that crappy third base coach can we get dave duncan?

"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp

by grantfunk on May 8, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

"Poo-Holez" & Coco Crisp?

We’d be laughing stock, an awesome awesome laughing stock.

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on May 6, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

But what about Willie?

I like the Jacobs/Guillen platoon best because that lets Trey use Spork as a sub, and we all know Trey is going to play him as much as he can get away with. You are probably right about Trey never using that platoon, which is sad.

The only flaw I see in your second plan is that you didn’t include Trey’s inevitable Spork usage, but I’d be happy if it played out like that.

"I've seen the future and it's much like the present only longer." - Dan Quisenberry

by Safe@First on May 6, 2009 4:58 PM EDT reply actions  

True.

It gets tough when you start factoring in the manager’s (at least perceived) annoying predilictions.

by stuckinstl12 on May 6, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think Hillman is going to "play Bloomquist as much as he can get away with"

When Gordon and Guillen have been healthy, Bloomquist hasn’t played much. I think if Teahen and Callaspo are hitting well and Bloomquist’s hitting cools down (which is inevitable), Hillman will want the former two in the lineup much, much more than the latter one.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

Don’t really understand the “Bloomquist will play too much” argument everyone is in love with. He’s played a decent amount because of injuries and good production but he won’t just throw him out there to play over a better player unless he is still really hot and that person is really cold.

by I need more Esteban on May 6, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess it's because Hillman always plays the worst players in every situation

Especially the gritty ones. For instance, he’s been playing Bloomquist over Callaspo all year! Wait…

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Although I enjoy a good Trey Hillman joke as much as anyone, I’m actually pretty neutral on him as a manager, overall. Not a fan, but I don’t think it makes that much of a difference. You might say I’m not a “Bash HIllman” specialist.

Having said that, and without getting into a debate about Hillman, it’s worth noting, as you do you in the first line of your post, that Callaspo didn’t get regular starts until Gordon got hurt. And only then because Jose Guillen was already hurt. So two guys had to go down for him to get starts. And then he went on a tear that is still going on.

Again, I’m not saying anything about Bloomquist, Hillman, grit, etc., but I think it’s fair to say that someone wasn’t real eager for Callaspo to be the starting 2B this season. Cf. Aviles, Mike, Who Gets the Credit For Giving Him a Chance, 2008.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very true

legitmate question, did you like him over Teahen at 2nd before the season started?

I think I only remember a handful of people wanting Bert (they look right as of now)

by I need more Esteban on May 6, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

But , of course, I liked Teahen over Guillen in RF, so that was my solution. I kept saying it, and NYRoyal kept telling me now to get my hopes up.

I’m just worried that Callaspo’s going to win Player of the Week soon (and he should be a candidate) and then go out “celebrating.”

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not a fan, but I don’t think it makes that much of a difference.

That’s how I feel about Hillman and the vast majority of managers.

, it’s worth noting, as you do you in the first line of your post, that Callaspo didn’t get regular starts until Gordon got hurt. And only then because Jose Guillen was already hurt. So two guys had to go down for him to get starts. And then he went on a tear that is still going on.

True, but that was because Teahen was the starting 2B, which is a decision I completely agree with. It’s not like we all knew Callaspo was a good player. Certainly his projections were anything but good. Now of course the original mistake is having Guillen in RF instead of Teahen, which would have allowed Hillman to start Callaspo at second from the beginning.
but I think it’s fair to say that someone wasn’t real eager for Callaspo to be the starting 2B this season.

I don’t know, but I think that its more about Hillman and Moore being pro-Teahen and wanting him in the lineup.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to toot my own horn, because I think others agreed with me

but I was always in favor of Callaspo 2B/Teahen RF, and that was before I crunched the numbers. And those numbers aren’t very friendly to either of those guys; even if they regress significantly, I still expect them to be better players at those positions than Guillen in RF>

The only “good” reason to start Guillen (assuming everyone is healthy, and excluding his temper) is to showcase him for a trade and hope he catches fire. Yes, I know he’s not now, but smalls sample, so is WIllie, etc. all the stuff we agree on.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hillman gets full blame for starting Guillen in RF over Teahen. That’s not really in question, at least between us. The question of this line of comments-and-replies is whether Hillman is so in love with Bloomquist that he’s going to give him a lot of playing time regardless of who else is on the 25-man roster. My points are 1) starting Teahen at 2B over Callaspo didn’t show that he doesn’t like Callaspo, and 2) when injuries to Guillen and Gordon moved Teahen out of the 2B spot, Hillman had the opportunity to exercise this “love” for Bloomquist to make him the starting second baseman. He didn’t. He put Callaspo in that role even before he started to hit like an All-Star.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey I'm New here,

I’ve been over on the arrowhead pride all winter and spring, but now the draft is over i have some months to kill, anyway, I was just wondering why everyone is bashing Guillen. I agree that Teahen and Callaspo need to be playing but since Guillen has returned to the lineup the offense is starting to produce some runs. I’m not saying that it is all because of him but it has to help to have him in the lineup.

 I look forward to sharing ideas and opinions with you guys all summer.

by Scottwied5 on May 7, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Guillen helps the lineup when he's genuinely hitting well

Right now he’s hitting well. Last year he didn’t hit well. This year he’s not projected to hit well. The occasional home run and 90 RBI’s may look nice, but they mask a very low OBP and only moderate power. In short, unless he performs much differently from his projections, he’s an out machine. And outs are the worst thing for hitters.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 7, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a common thing around here

I don’t mind Guillen as much as a lot but I definitely do have a problem with him when he is in one of his slumps like NYRoyal talked about. When he is hitting and being selective like right now, then I think he is very valuable.

The stat guys hate him, the common fan likes him, I’m somewhere in the middle probably.

by I need more Esteban on May 7, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh and welcome

all opinions are welcomed, just be ready for them to be agreed or argued with

by I need more Esteban on May 7, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks

this is the first time anybody has every responded to any of my blogs (arrowhead pride). I do agree that he is to streaky of a hitter, but I also thinks it helps to have him in the lineup to help protect the hitter in front of him, whoever it may be.

Also just a not the Royals are built to play small ball so sometimes a sac fly isn’t all that bad, (A hit is always better don’t get me wrong)

by Scottwied5 on May 7, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Damn

You make a VERY good point, I didn’t look that deep into it.

I don’t think that he is a “feared force” at all, don’t get me wrong.

by Scottwied5 on May 8, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

As I’ve said several times before, I felt like they spent all off-season trying to find ways to keep Callaspo from being the starter. I also still believe it has to do with his (seeming in the past) off-field things more than anything. He doesn’t fit DMTH cozy views of morality.

Perhaps when Gordon comes back, Trey will have the opportunity to say “You know, that Callaspo thing didn’t really work out.” But, fortunately, I think, like Aviles, he’s made it impossible for Trey to hide him now.

Royals baseball. Where .260 would be orgasmic.

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on May 6, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

or a good/bad scenario

good: Teahen and Callaspo start every night

bad: Gordon and Butler in 1b platoon

won’t happen, but it would incredible to see RR crash if it did

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he does currently

He has performed very well and had an injury situation help him.

Royals baseball. Where .260 would be orgasmic.

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on May 7, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

He did as soon as a second baseman other than Teahen was needed

As soon as injuries moved Teahen off of 2B (which was pretty early), who did Hillman turn to as the nearly everyday starting second baseman? Alberto Callaspo. Callaspo wasn’t hot. He wasn’t tearing the cover off of the ball. The season had barely begun. And the injuries gave Hillman the perfect opportunity to start Bloomy at 2B, which I would think he’d do if he really loved him as a player and wanted him to get a lot of playing time. But he didn’t. He went to Callaspo. Doesn’t that tell you anything? Or are you not interested in data which disputes your “Hillman loves Bloomy and will play him any chance he gets!!!!” thesis?

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 8, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bert

has more RBIs and HRs than Bloomy. How’s that for data?

First.

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on May 9, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why Bloomquist would play more

Don’t get me wrong—I like your plan much better—but it also has Teahen and Callaspo playing 6-7 games in a row. Bloomquist would step in at least twice for every rotation, and almost certainly a 3rd time were Aviles to be relieved sans TPJ once per rotation.

by justaguyfromkc on May 9, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pinch runner in the 7th!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on May 6, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Excellent idea.

I’m hoping his rotation is heaviest in right field, but as you suggested sitting Hoagie a lot is probably unrealistic.

Would it make sense to ease Gordon back into the lineup at least early on? That way Teahen would continue to get ABs while he’s hot. Perhaps after an extended transition period for Gordon there will be other holes for Teahen to fill. Counter-argument is that easing Gordon back could hinder his productivity.

by stuckinstl12 on May 6, 2009 4:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Would it make sense to ease Gordon back into the lineup at least early on?

I have a feeling that the Royals aren’t going to let Gordon back onto the 25-man roster until he’s 100%. I think he’s likely going to be in the minors for 2-3 weeks or more on a rehab assignment to make sure he’s both healthy and strong. So I don’t think he’ll need to be eased into the lineup for injury risk reasons. One could argue that he should be eased in because he won’t be used to hitting against major league pitching. But because that is true, I think he should be shoved into regular duty from his first day back. Yes there will be an adjustment period, but let’s get that over with as quickly as possible so we can get Gordon’s full production as soon as possible. Let’s not draw out the transition.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think I agree.

Have we heard any projected return dates for Gordon? If it’s late July/early August, it will probably be necessary to give the guys you listed days off.

Are we sure Teahen can’t catch?

by stuckinstl12 on May 6, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

No real dates, just rumors and rumbling

There was the 2-month total ballpark time we heard back when the doctors evaluated him. And everything went fine in the operation and so far in the rehab. So two months would be roughly mid-June. But I’ve also heard some rumblings about late June. That might be because of a longer rehab assignment. Recently some throw away line in an article said that rumblings from the front office say maybe it won’t be until the ASB. Right now I think it is a lot of guesswork. Unless there is setback, it will be sometime between June 15 and the ASB.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really like this arrangement

Although its a bit premature. We could have a very different roster and players could be performing very differently by the time Gordon gets back.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on May 6, 2009 5:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

This is an intellectual/dreaming exercise at this point. Teahen and/or Callaspo could stop hitting. Some other player(s) could get injured. Or any number of other things could happen making this all moot. But I just wanted to show that it was possible to give all five of those players a lot of playing time.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

and

I think you’ve done that well.

The answer to the question though surely as to be trade 2 of the starters(any two) and play the spork there.

by AronV on May 6, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trade Someone

Bloomquist. God? Or just an illusion? You be the judge.

by focs on May 6, 2009 5:22 PM EDT reply actions  

The Mets are going to be (or already are) desperate for starting pitching

How is Guillen’s control? You would think he’s certainly got the arm strength.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

can we

unload him on LA?

"red bull is amaZing" -Coco Crisp

by grantfunk on May 8, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I remember reading a while ago...

from someone, that since Gordon’s D has been slipping at third that he may eventually be moved to the OF to make room for Moustakis… Could this be possible since DDJ hasn’t exactly been playing like we expect… Of course by playing Gordon in the OF for DDJ, I just mean complicating that complicated rotation even more.

Are you telling me Jesus Christ cant hit a curve ball?

by averagegatsby on May 6, 2009 5:27 PM EDT reply actions  

that was Rany, probably

Gordon’s defense was below average last season but was above average the season before. THe scouting reports confirm this. What that leaves us with is that he’s about average. Rany was using Baseball Prospectus’s Fielding Runs Above Average defensive stat, which, while it might have its historical uses, is about as helpful for measuring contemporary defense as an abacus is for coming up with a really good steak marinade.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

So where does that put us in the long haul...

Are Moustakis and Hosmer suppose to come up next year or 2011?

I am a firm believer that if we are a contender we do not trade our starters, or even our valuable bench players.

Are you telling me Jesus Christ cant hit a curve ball?

by averagegatsby on May 6, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

So basically their is no easy answer...

for the cluster fuck of above average players. Basically the only easy remedy would be another injury.

Are you telling me Jesus Christ cant hit a curve ball?

by averagegatsby on May 6, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great post

My only concern with your `let’s assume Guillen will go all Jack Torrance when Hillman tells him he’s shifting from everyday RF to a DH-platoon with Jacobs’ scenario is this: Here are Teahen’s career splits by defensive position.

I’ve heard Teahen say on multiple occasions that having a set defensive position really helps him focus on his hitting. It would seem that his numbers back that up to an extent. While playing the two positions where he was allowed to settle in (3B and RF) for an extended period of time, his numbers are markedly better than at the various other spots he’s played. Granted, even taking the total PA’s at all other positions, we’re dealing with a pretty miniscule sample size, but combined with his own statements/psyche, I would be concerned about his offensive numbers under the “hopscotch” scenario you’ve laid out. Maybe there’s no legitimacy to it, and his numbers just have more to do with his overall development as a hitter. But he definitely thinks it does, and there is a little bit of evidence supporting it.

Ultimately, I’d much rather have him as the everyday RF, and he’d probably rather be playing there full-time, too. I think I’d rather deal with a potential Jose Torrance than to experiment with Swiss Army Teahen. Of course, I don’t have to be in the clubhouse with him. Maybe Hillman could just put Teahen in RF, and DH Jose for a game or so, then put Jose back in RF for a game, and just kind of do a gradual, trickle-down of Guillen in RF so maybe he won’t really notice he’s no longer the “Starting RF.”

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 5:28 PM EDT reply actions  

I second you concerns about the multiple position use of Teahen.

But, it might not be an option for him to play in RF. Guillen might have a year like his 2007 year and if he does, he shouldn’t be replaced.

by Chyladin on May 6, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

You could be creative

And have him platoon at DH with Jacobs a lot while playing in the field now and then while Teahen fills in once in awhile at 3B or LF.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on May 6, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even if Guillen has a year like 2007...

assuming Teahen meets even his average offensive projection for 2009, then his defense in RF would make a much more valuable player overall. I think it’s pretty clear that having him as the starting RF would be the best scenario unless he has a massive dropoff in production, AND Guillen can actually be so consistently productive that you wouldn’t want his bat out of the lineup more than once every couple weeks.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oooo, yeah

Maybe they could trade him back to the Nats. Or will they not remember Guillen now that Bowden is busy researching the best countries to move to on the “no extradition treaty” list?

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I honestly think Teahen's actual problem

is not “moving from position to position” but “being repeatedly asked to learn a new one.” I suspect his good start has mostly been a function of not having to play 2B since the first week of the season.

This space for rent.

by jonfmorse on May 6, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Teahen

Please please let this love affair with Mark Teahen come to an end. He is a nice player. Solid backup, but all this talk of needing him in the lineup everyday is crazy. The man, as always is on pace for about 55 RBI’S. And that is hitting in key run producing positions in the lineup. This is who he is, a solid valuable utility player.

by Poodge on May 6, 2009 5:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes i did

He is currently 8th on the team in those RBIZZZZZ. I just dont get it!

by Poodge on May 6, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh boy...here we go. Poor Poodge won't know what hit him.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

With respect

What I think you don’t get is that the number of RBI’s a player has is not a good measure of how good of a hitter a player is.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also with respect

Of course it is. Teahen hits in one of the two prominent run producing slots in the lineup and doesnt produce. His defense is ok, he runs the bases well but he doesnt produce runs. And runs are what it is all about for an offensive player. And he has a large enough sample size to know this is what he is. Some guys drive in runs, some dont.

by Poodge on May 6, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

WHAT???

Inconceivable!

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m willing to debate the relative merit and meaning of BA vs. OBP vs. SLG vs. OPS vs. wOBA and probably anything around there. But RBI? I just won’t do it.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holy Shit...

we found it.

This must be the Holy Grail.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on May 6, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Other things I won't debate

1. Whether or not the earth is round.
2. Evolution vs. creationism
3. What 1+1 equals

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is flat

for 99% of our everyday lives.

Just messing around here.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on May 6, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

No way to judge

until the Earth suits up in Royals blue

(Sorry, couldn’t resist)

Anyone see the earth in 2005?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

No other explorers before Columbus were willing to sail to China

That should tell us something

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on May 6, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

Really wasnt looking for a debate just curious as to why Teahen has always gotten such love. I have been a Royals fan my whole life. I am as excited as anyone about the start they have had and I really like Mark Teahen. I have just listened to people talk about him like he is irreplaceable these last couple of years and I dont get it. Jose Guillan seems like a total jerk, but he produces. Not consistently, true but when he does he wins games with his bat. Alex Gordon has not looked like we all hoped he would, but has much more upside the Teahen and I think all would agree there is still a chance he could turn into something pretty good. Yet whenever I see a discussion people are always trying to figure out a way to get Teahen in the lineup everyday. Thats all, didnt mean to tick anyone off just giving my opinion.

by Poodge on May 6, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't love Teahen as a player

I think he’s a valuable super-utility player, much as you do. But he’s a better total value player in RF than Guillen. And if Teahen is having a good year (better than his projections), I want his bat (high OBP and good line drive power) in the lineup.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't worry

You didn’t tick anyone off. It’s just that most of the regular posters/commenters on RR believe the “back of baseball card stats” like RBI are completely antiquated notions of how to value players. To the extent you plan on making regular comments or posts touting one player’s RBI or HR totals (or pitching wins and losses…or even ERA for that matter) as reasons to think one player is better than another….well, then just realize you’re going to get plenty of opposition on that position. Or in the case of guys like NYRoyal, he may just throw up his hands and ignore the post/comment because he’s grown tired of debating/explaining the concept to others.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Teahen is a fan favorite

because he is a very likable guy who has done everything this organization has asked him to do (switching postitions) and I believe people just want him to succeed for vindication of the Beltran trade.

That being said, a big majority of the people on RR realize he is just an average player on a good team but a really good utility guy.

Also, if you want to go down memory lane, the last 2 seasons there have been a large number of people who actually hate Teahen, so the Teahen love is probably from the average fan you come across.

by I need more Esteban on May 6, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

So true.

I’ve met very few “every day” fans that are Teahen supporters.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on May 6, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

What galls me

is that one tab over on the front page of any sports site, there’s this little thing called “NBA”.

They give out an AWARD to the Mark Teahens of the world. It’s called the Sixth Man award.

How many teams in this league can point to the #1 guy off their bench and say “he’s better than Mark Teahen”? Seriously?

This space for rent.

by jonfmorse on May 7, 2009 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Do what?

Not trying to be a jerk here, just something that I have wondered about for quite some time.

by Poodge on May 6, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Give you a crash course in advanced statistics, thereby explaining to you why...

“counting stats” such as RBI’s are a horrible measure of a player’s performance/value. Which is disappointing, because I was just getting ready to warm up some popcorn.

I would suggest buying “Baseball Between the Numbers” and reading the chapter entitled “What’s the Matter with RBI?” It will ultimately end up saving everyone some time.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

In short

If you put a hitter in the middle of a lineup with some guys in front of you who are going to get on base a good deal of the time, you’re going to get a lot of RBI’s even with mediocre hitting. Being “clutch” doesn’t exist as a skill. Being a good hitter (OBP, SLG, wOBA) is what is important…for hitting. And being a good overall player (hitting + defense + base runnning) is what is important for total player evaluation. And Teahen’s combination of hitting, defense and base running is better than Guillen’s.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha

Well I have been around baseball for 40 years and I feel pretty knowledgeable about the game. But thank you for attempting to talk down to me. I couldnt disagree more with you on who the better player is, Teahen or Guillen but you can bet on one thing. Ask any pitcher in baseball who they want to face in an important situation and I promise you the answer will be a resounding TEAHEN.

by Poodge on May 6, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

And that pitcher will be a master of reverse psychology

"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"

Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split

by DCRoyals on May 6, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

nobody ever claimed athletes were intelligent

as a whole.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on May 6, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did I really talk down to you?

I thought my comment was a pretty straightforward explanation of my thoughts on hitting value and player value.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Are you really surprised?

(TONGUE firmly planted in cheek)

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on May 6, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

see my post above

FEAR, BABY, FEEEEEAARRRR!!!!

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 7, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

and see my upcoming post on RBI at

Driveline Mechanics — probably next Monday or Tuesday. I"m sure you’re quaking with anticipation!

It’s the first in a two-aprt series, I think.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now I'm confused

should the Royals be trying to sign Tony Batista or Joe Carter?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Since NYR won't do it, I will.

RBIs are the one stat even less relevant than pitcher wins. Teahen has a low RBI total this season for one very specific reason: one of the guys hitting ahead of him decided he didn’t feel like getting on base at all in April.

Now, if you’re going to tell me you think pitcher wins are a determinant as to whether a pitcher’s good or not, then I’LL give you up for lost…

This space for rent.

by jonfmorse on May 6, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Buck

My second issue is with John Buck. Again, a solid backup catcher but in my book he is not the catcher Olivo is. Buck is terrified to call inside pitches. He is slow in his throws to the bases and cannot throw runners out. He is poor at digging pitches out of the dirt. And I think he is slightly timid at contact at the plate.

by Poodge on May 6, 2009 5:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Ok,

but catchers also have to hit…

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on May 6, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

But Olivo swings REALLY hard!

He’s trying. Bats are just afraid.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Where's the picture of Jobu?

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on May 6, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Olivo looked pretty rough defensively in Minnesota

Just one series, but I’m not really convinced either is a huge upgrade from the other offensively or defensively. They are redundant. And the same.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on May 6, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think Buck’s a ton better, overall, but I do think there’s an obvious gap between the two. Buck is the better hitter overall — power power, more walks. It’s enough to be measurable. Olivo is the better defender, but although he’s a lot better at throwing runners out, BUck’s superiority in blocking the plate (superiority vis-a-vis Olivo, not catchers in general) mitigates that advantage significantly.

To relink this, every projection system sees Buck as better.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good stuff

As will surprise no one, the first option is by far the best. Hopefully, Omar Minaya or someone similarly skilled will oblige. And, las has been pointed out, these “crunches” have a way of working themselves out with slumps, injuries, etc.

I was actually thinking of a similar post, that I might still do, about he Jacobs situatoin. Saying he should “rarely” face lefties is quite kind. GIven that Hillman/Moore are aparently willing to let Willie B. play SS, there is absolutely no reason for TPJ or Luis “TPJ without the glove… or bat” Hernandez to be on the roster. Bring up Shealy or House now to platoon with Jacobs.. and if you get into a crunch when Gordon comes back and lose one of these hot commodities on waivers, if you need one of the later, there will be one left. I even did some rough calcs on how many runs that would save.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 5:49 PM EDT reply actions  

once again I'm agreeing with the devil
Now this demotion of Guillen might lead to some kind of epic explosion in the clubhouse, but I’d do it anyway. But the above is unrealistic. It’s fun to discuss, but like using a 4-man rotation or making Soria a starter, it just isn’t going to happen. Unless he is injured, Trey Hillman is going to keep Guillen in RF. So, within the bounds of realism, what are the Royals options?

I keep hearing people say that Guillen has such a strong arm in the outfield, but wasn’t there a time last year that Teahan was putting up high numbers in the AL for assists?

That very well could have been due to his “newness” to the position that led to opposition trying to stretch out on him and take an extra base, then finding out later that it was a bad idea.

Come on, Annie, think of something clever to say, huh? Something full of magic, religion, bullshit. Come on, dazzle me.

by BillyMojo on May 6, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, Teahen had a dreadful year as far as throwing out/holding baserunners last season

he was excellent at it in 2007. I do think he’s a better defender that Guillen, who has a strong arm, but when it actually comes to preventing baserunners from advancing, is only a bit above average at this point in his career. And Teahen’s range (which is much more important) is much better.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

although that's just my opinion

and therefore, worthless

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

not to mention,

just from a guy that has played a lot of outfield (so take with a grain of salt):

Keeping the ball in front of you (range) does a much better job of keeping runners from taking extra bases. It’s hard as hell to throw a guy out when you are chasing the ball.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on May 6, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most of the time...

but I’ve also seen a whole lot of baseball cards and they always, ALWAYS list RBIZZZZZ

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on May 6, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Assists is probably not a good way to measure arm strength...

Soriano was near the top of the league when he first moved to OF because every suspected he would be an adventure out there and tried to test his arm/accuracy….while guys like Ichiro/Rios will get fewer chances because teams will not try to run on them (unless Dave Owen is around).

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on May 6, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

yup

that’s why they don’t just use assists, but see how often the guys take the extras base, period, whether trying or not

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Guillen

To the bench/platoon is the best solution, yep. I really doubt it’s gonna happen.

"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"

by NHZ on May 6, 2009 5:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Guillen

Guillen produces runs. 11 RBI’S in 49 AB’S. Our number 3 hitter…9RBI’S in 97 AB’S.

by Poodge on May 6, 2009 5:59 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm beginning to think that this is one of the regulars under an alias screen name...

just trying to rile up NY and others.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's minda/Porcus/Steve Perry

or, Xenu willing, Joel

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jeff Franceour

For example

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on May 6, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

O the contrary

I think the clubhouse is a Fountainhead of intellectual stimulation.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 6, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

BRING BACK EMIL BROWN NOW!!!!

The guy was an RBI machine!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on May 6, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I second that

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway - An Onymous

by ratherfantastic on May 6, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Karen Kornacki vigorously objects.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have you met GobbleforCyoung?

"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"

Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split

by DCRoyals on May 6, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

If it weren't for the better spelling/grammar and non-use of ALL CAPS...

I would say it could BE GobbleforCyoung.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on May 6, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gobble is much more aggressive too

he’s really into the ad hominem attacks to prove a point.

"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"

Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split

by DCRoyals on May 6, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey....NY

Great post.

I still think that having Gordon @ 1st, Teahen @ 3rd & Butler/Jacobs @ DH is a distinct possibility also.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on May 6, 2009 6:29 PM EDT reply actions  

It's possible

And thanks. I don’t know why they’d move Gordon off of third base, though. I think both Hillman and the FO like Gordon and Butler a lot and see them as key parts of both the present and future of the team. So I think they’ll keep Gordon at his best position and keep Butler as a full-time player (mostly at 1B where they like his defense much more than Jacobs).

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

But is Gordon'r 'Best' position

better than Teahens ‘Best’ position? I think Gordon has a little more range @ 3rd than Teahen, but I trust Teahens arm strength & accuracy more. (I’m sickened that I’m going to ask this since I still think defensive stats are BS) What do the defensive metrics say about the 2 @ 3rd?

I think a wrench has been tossed into my plans by Butler slowly priving to be a serviceable 1B. If he has shored up that side of the diamond defensively, I agree, there is no reason to push AG over there, but if Billy turns into Jacobs…

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on May 6, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, d_f has it right

Teahen really appears to be considerably worse defensively at 3B than Gordon.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, if he's hitting anything like this, he'll be in the lineup everyday or nearly everyday

People keep acting like Callaspo’s starting role is precarious and that Hillman loves Bloomy and will play him everyday. And yet with the Gordon injury, Hillman was given the easy opportunity to make Bloomy the starting second baseman. Instead, he made Callaspo the starting second baseman and has kept him there.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't understand

why he hasn’t moved him up in the lineup yet. Not that this is a huge issue, but as it has been said before, he is currently behind a bunch of guys who can’t get on base, and in front of Bulivo and Aviles. This is certainly not maximizing his current value.

"You know what, I mean I cried in bed for a while, moaning 'Why!? Why did this have to happen?'"

Zack Greinke on the Brad Pitt - Jennifer Aniston split

by DCRoyals on May 6, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

true

don’t mess with a good thing?

by I need more Esteban on May 6, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just my opinion but....

I think Hillman feels like Callaspo is comfortable at that spot in the lineup. Also, it doesnt hurt to have someone near the bottom that can get on base and drive in the meat of the order. Honestly, how disgusting(RIGHT NOW of course) to have an Aviles, Maier, Choose your catcher at the bottom of the order? Also, Im not picking on Maier and Buck too bad but lets not forget Buck’s night prior to the game winner. Im talking offense and defense. And for Maier I love him drawing walks but he has got to do a little more than that in my humble opinion.

by 2LegittoShit on May 6, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've heard the excuse of keeping him where he is allows him to drive in runs.

I don’t buy that excuse, just what I’ve heard on radio.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on May 6, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good post and thread

You were even kind to the “RBI” guy :)

by sterlingice on May 6, 2009 9:10 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Intriguing

But the most likely outcome is we end up with a situation like what we have now: somebody gets hurt and we distribute the healthy options.

by howserfan2 on May 7, 2009 12:03 AM EDT reply actions  

Bloomquist

Bloomquist at .378 he’s gota play.

by cruzMOKS on May 7, 2009 12:55 AM EDT reply actions  

The correct answer

Is to wait till somebody else gets hurt.
When Gordon comes back I’m sure a DeJesus or Guillen injury would be on its way.

by Royal from Queens on May 7, 2009 1:12 AM EDT reply actions  

Yep

I think that’s about right. NYRoyal’s plan to use, effectively, ten starters rather than nine is a pretty good idea, and the reason it works is because of Teabag’s versatility. However, I think it’s likely that one of the other Royals starters, Guillen or DeJesus or Jake, is going to get injured sometime this season, and Teabag will move to his spot.

Teabag’s value is that he’s a starter-quality player who can fill many holes, all four corner positions and 2B as well. So you don’t have to worry about your whole team collapsing due to one injury to a key player, and having to replace him with some guy who hit .240 in Triple A.

Spork, by the way, is also playing like pretty good backup insurance. My guess is he’s a below-average but above-replacement level player. He’s not going to keep hitting like this, but he’s not an embarrassingly bad player to have in the lineup. (See: Guiel, Aaron; Perez, Neifi; Knoblauch, Chuck.)

My true preference would be to trade Guillen to whoever will take him off our hands and play Teabag in right, but we all know that ain’t gonna happen.

It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.

by Juancho on May 7, 2009 4:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

One tweak in NY Royal's rotation:

Day 5: Jacobs gets the day off, Butler to DH, Callaspo 2B, Teahen 1B.

It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.

by Juancho on May 7, 2009 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's reasonable

I considered that, but I think Teahen’s 1B defense is overrated and Butler’s 1B defense is underrated. I do think that if Teahen were to play 1B full-time, he’d develop into an excellent defensive 1B. But the problem is that he’s played it very little. He doesn’t have experience making scoops and handling other difficult throws. He doesn’t have the experience which teaches him when to go far to his right for a ball and when to back off and go cover the bag. My point is that playing him at 1B rarely/occasionally means you get an inexperienced 1B there who makes rookie-type mistakes. I’d rather have the near full-time 1B there who handles the position pretty well: Butler.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 7, 2009 5:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I was looking at an amateur fanpost I did from almost a year ago about Butler. It’s nice to see he finally was given a chance to play 1B regularly and has done quite well. It gives us so many more options that we can even talk about a Guillen/Jacobs platoon without taking any AB from Butler.

by KCScuba on May 7, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm a little more concerned about this year, right now

those"plays" on those two flyballs Tues. night were not “above average”. Maybe he’s been here too long, associated with failure. Just like some players are perceived to be “winners”; many times the opposite is true. Possibly time to take the Jimmy Gobble Express out of town. Could have some trade value.

by shakes the clown on May 7, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I couldn't disagree with this more

With respect, I think just about everything in that post was wrong. He possibly misplayed a couple flyballs because he’s been “associated with failure” for too long? He’s been one of the Royals best players for the past four years. He adds runs with his bad and saves with his glove. He’s one of the Royals best and most important players.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 7, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

winners find ways to win, losers find ways to lose.

Look, I understand the statistical arguments for smiley, (I am an engineer by trade). I have just endured too many careless mistakes over the past four “above average” years, plus one or two more. I’m talking about getting picked off base, when he’s not going ANYWHERE, overrunning bases when getting thrown behind, throwing to the wrong bases. All the while, smiling like he doesn’t have a care in the world. My god, what would this site do, If Farnsworth grins all the way to the dugout, after he gives up his next walkoff blast?

by shakes the clown on May 7, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

this team needs more angry guys who suck

Jose Guillen and Kyle Farnsworth were good starts. Trading away Ross Gload was dumb, though.

Is Paul O’Neill still available?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 7, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

So his problem is smiling?

I do not find that argument persuasive.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 7, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

David DeJesus

does not suck. He has a history of good performance. He started slow this year. He’s already snapping out of it, since he’s got his OPS back above 700, and he’ll be back to his normal 800-820 level before long. About 28 of the 30 teams in MLB would love to have him.

It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.

by Juancho on May 8, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reality is...

That Callaspo will likely cool significantly from this torrid pace. I really could see Teahen taking that spot and Callaspo becoming a bat off of the bench.

Regardless, I don’t ever remember having to have the “we have too many good players” argument before, so I’m thinking I might be writing this while asleep.

Russ Gload = Doug Mientiewicz....without the pop

by Dubya on May 7, 2009 10:39 AM EDT reply actions  

The nice thing about the hitters right now

is that some guys like Callaspo and Bloomy will likely cool – perhaps Buck too. But, we have several others that should/could heat up in Butler, Gordon (when he’s back – could be a nice boost during the doldrums), Aviles, TheJesus, Guillen – hell, even Olivo could, maybe a little. And then, Coco and Jacobs seem to be hitting probably the way we thought except are doing perhaps a bit better than expected with OBP. OK, Coco for sure. But, these guys maybe can just stay the way they’re going. I definitely think Coco’s for real and will keep up his newfound ability to walk.

At any rate, it seems like the team is poised to perhaps rotate a few guys in and out of hot streaks as the season rolls along. If that were to happen, run production might be able to continue at the unexpected pace that we’re seeing and who knows what happens.

The pitching has a bit of a similar situation in that we have Hochevar in waiting to replace anyone that falters. Probably Ponson but he doesn’t seem as bad as everyone expected.

Royals baseball. Where .260 would be orgasmic.

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on May 7, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't believe Gordon deserves an everyday spot.

Look at Luke. He’s stuck at Triple AAA why a journeyman and another pitcher who got shelled for most of the year start ahead of him. Mark Teahen is a better player than both Ponson and Bannister and I don’t believe we just hand over 3B to Gordon when he returns.

by GobbleforCyoung on May 7, 2009 7:01 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

+1

Same thing for A-Rod. Cody Ransom has 6 more RBI than A-Rod this season, no way they should just give that purple-lipped punk his spot back.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 7, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sorry but that's just how I feel

Ransom>A-Rod

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 8, 2009 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, I got embarrassed for GforCY

And everyone knows Ransom>ARod because Ransom has achieved his level of performance clean.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 8, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure what you mean

I just think Gordon should earn it. And I’m not the only one – the poster below thinks Gordon should go back to Triple A and learn to dominate.

I actually agree. Teahen has 4 HR’s and is hitting .300 with a .400 OBP and as good of defense as Gordon. Gordon will probably never hit .300 in his career the way his development is going. Gordon should try SS if Aviles struggles continue

by GobbleforCyoung on May 8, 2009 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

its embarrassing to continue to believe that Gordon will become Longoria

 because he won’t, and never will be as good as him. Sorry. Gordon’s bat speed is about half of Longoria’s and that is one of the most important components to a good hitter along with power, accuracy and coordination.

You should have gotren my email but I still continue to get sarcastic remarks and unneeded commentary after all my posts, even from moderators.

by GobbleforCyoung on May 8, 2009 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.

“Unneeded commentary”? Do you somehow think that you should be able to say whatever you want here without people responding as they see fit?

This is a community, not BB4MVP’s Soapbox.

(Sorry, everyone, but I get really peevish when people post to communities then complain about being responded to.)

And as to your baseball-related comment, no, Gordon’s bat speed is NOT “half” of Longoria’s. If it were, his career line would be .000/.000/.000, because he’d never catch up with anything. Get some perspective.

This space for rent.

by jonfmorse on May 8, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Okay fair

what about his bat speed is 20% less. Just watching him get suckered into a breaking ball for strike 3 and watching Longoria launch one 30 rows back in Yankee Stadium makes you wonder

by GobbleforCyoung on May 8, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, some people can't handle being disagreed with

They want to disagree with others, but when someone disagrees with them, they take it as some kind of personal insult.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on May 8, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Unneeded Commentary" = insults

Like calling me a retart, not telling me that my post is stupid because Gordon’s bat speed is not as bad as advertised. Jonfmoruse didn’t know what I was referring to, but you should

Obviously people disagree with me all the time. Whatever, its good discussion. And that statementt was for you BTW. At this point you will disagree with any post that say “by Gobble” anyway.

by GobbleforCyoung on May 8, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude

Chill out. You post something on a message board, you run the risk of people disagreeing with you. You post something that’s either a troll or incredibly dumb (i.e. “Gordon should not be the regular 3B”) on this particular board, and there are definitely going to be people who disagree with you strongly. Take it like a man and fire back with whatever arguments you’ve got, though in this case I’m afraid you don’t have any.

It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.

by Juancho on May 8, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really dont understand all this Guillen Teahen hate

Guillen is third in OBP on the team while teahen is fifth at .409 and .392 respectively and .491 and .471 in slugging, good for fifth and seventh.

About all of this trading, we are a small market team! And we havent had good luck in the past with trades, Now granted Jacobs has performed well and Crisp will pick it up. But trading Guillen or Teahen for something better is not the answer. They are very good players and will hit 50 home runs together (for those of you concerned about that stat) and Jacobs will hit thirty. We havent had that power before. The only person we should trade is Gordon, but he isnt tradeable, and I like him to much to do that anyway, send him to triple A, let him learn to dominate, and then bring him back up and find a place for him. Stop being so upset with our players. We’re in fisrt place 29 games into the season! And we should stay that way. Hoch will come up after the unknown date in may, and Bloomquist and Callaspo wont cool off. If ur a Royals fan thoughts like that shouldnt cross ur mind, neither one of them have received legitimate playing time b4 and theyre showing us how great they are when they have it. And lastly, a quick note on everyones favorite pitcher – Kyle Farnsworth, i wanted to kill him, but really hes not that horrible, hes a good mop up guy with a plus fastball, just dont put him in when the games on the line.

P.s. Zack Greinke wont cool off! HE Is GOD! Woody Paige says hell be 15 – 0 at the all star break. I Realize he has a speech impediment and a gay ass board he writes on during around the horn, but I mean hes on ESPN, thats got to count for something, Davies has got to step up tho. Now I think Ive said everything I need to say to be up to speed with you guys

In about 5 years, you guys will be discussing me. Don't even think about trying to trade me!

by mdblankenship on May 8, 2009 12:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Being on ESPN

does not count for anything my friend, sorry

by I need more Esteban on May 8, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

why not put calaspo at SS and Teahan at 2B and sit aviles down. Hell gordon played SS some at nebraska. I think he’s a prototype for 3B though. That way you could keep Teahan(2b) calaspo(SS) gordon(3B) guillen(RF) jacobs(DH) all in the lineup. If one strugles bring back aviles to fill/rest players.

by davidhusker on May 8, 2009 10:16 AM EDT reply actions  

Hoagy's Hammies Will

Snap clear in two in unison if he ever really tries to run hard; problem solved.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on May 9, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions  

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