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Shin Soo Choo hit a single off a freakin' seagull in the 10th, driving in the winning run. Learning to play the seagull carom in Progressive Field is one of those things visiting defenders just don't have time to master in a short series. Oh, and now that the memories of the Royals' early-season friskiness have long since passed, can we just get to the end game on Trey Hillman and save everyone a lot of hassle?

4 months ago Newavatar_tiny devil_fingers 38 comments 0 recs  | 

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If I had to assign blame to the current state of the Royals

major league roster/results, I think I’d go 60% David Glass, 30% Dayton Moore, and 10% Trey Hillman. The players are who they are, you can’t blame them for not being who Dayton and Trey WANT them to be.

But you can’t fire the owner and it’s hard to DFA half the roster (especially when there is no one in the minors to take their spots), so…sorry, Trey.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jun 12, 2009 12:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sadly, I more or less agree with your %s

And, not to be too morbid, but when David Glass passes away, the team would presumably go to Dan Glass, right?

The same Dan Glass who is apparently so incompetent that he couldn’t be trusted with a good job at Wal-Mart, thus ending up as president of the Royals.

Wonderful.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Jun 12, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dan Glass is obsessed with losing winning!

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Jun 12, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hence the 30%

I was going to go 70/20 Glass/Moore, but David HAS opened up his checkbook a little more lately. So Moore gets another 10% for his poor use of much of that money.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jun 12, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That 60/30 goes down every year though

When Dayton signed on, it was probably 90/0, and has worked it’s way up.

by Top Ramen on Jun 12, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And, yes, I could do a better job

My first move, given the chance a long time ago, would have been to hire Bill James in some capacity, and make sure he had a significant say in decision making process.

Instead, James has become an integral part of the success for the fricking Red Sox.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Jun 12, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Supposedly

Allard Baird asked Bill James to do some research for them. Bill did it happily. And never heard from the Royals again.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 12, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

as much as Glass is to blame

I think that can’t be an excuse for Dayton Moore’s performance as much as it has been used here the last couple of days. This isn’t 2006. His first offseason, he had the budget for a $55M contract. That one worked out, but he’s had several years and numerous FA signings.

HIllman’s firing might make a difference — probably not though, and wouldn’t be significant. It’s the way of the world, sadly.

Dayton’s got a nice setup — Glass to blame for the past problem building things up, and Hillman to blame for the current “underperformance” of otherwise OUTSTANDING acquisitions, like Jose Guillen, Horacio Ramirez, Kyle Farnsworth, Mike Jacobs, etc.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 12, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that the minors have been so devoid of any quality position players

since 2006, that you still can’t put most of the blame on Moore. I might be willing to come closer to 50/40 Glass/Moore. But, I think that Dayton would probably rather have started the 2008 season with a decent, young corner OF prospect with potential in RF (and maybe used the $36M on another starting pitcher). Problem was, he didn’t have any such prospects. That’s all on Glass (and maybe to some extent on the scouting/drafting of previous Glass-hired regimes).

Dayton does definitely have a nice setup, and I can’t see Glass firing HIM anytime soon. And Dayton doesn’t strike me as a guy who would can Hillman just as a face-saving/job-saving move, or to just “do something.” He’ll stick with him unless and until he’s made a (fairly) independent decision that he just isn’t satisfied with Trey’s managing ability.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jun 12, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mentioned this in the game thread last night,

but doesn’t pinch-hitting in with Hernandez over Teahen and Jacobs come off as incompetent?

I’m not for firing Trey because the team isn’t winning, I’d like to see him canned because he makes some decisions that make zero sense.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on Jun 12, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

FIRE JIM WONG NOW!!!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 12, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Moore gets some blame as well

I think his biggest errors have resulted from trying to achieve a small level of competitiveness in the present, while devoting most of the effort to the MASSIVE rebuilding of the farm system.

Whether this comes from insecurity, a directive from ownership, or somewhere else, who knows?

I suppose the best thing to do would have been to announce “We’re going to REALLY SUCK for the next half decade while we trade any and every asset we have in an effort to restock the farm system so we can be competitive in the future on a consistent basis. Please keep coming to the games so our owner can continue to fund this effort to correct the mistakes he has made over the last decade”

See how that would sound? No way that message ever gets out, so Moore was sorta stuck trying to win now and win in the future – nearly impossible given the obstacles he faced thanks to the Glass family’s misguided ownership. Does that excuse some of the poor decisions he made? Of course not – but it may help to put them in context.

Just my 2 cents.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Jun 12, 2009 1:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think that sums it up almost perfectly

There is what Dayton says publicly about the team, its present, its future, etc., and what we all know he’s thinking and talking about behind closed doors. It reminds me of one of Harrison Ford’s lines in “Six Days, Seven Nights”:

“Well I’m the captain. That’s my job. It’s no good for me to go waving my arms in the air and screaming ‘Oh shit, we’re gonna die!’ That doesn’t invoke much confidence, does it?”

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jun 12, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dayton inherited a bad system

but he did get a few nice pieces that he could’ve used to fill holes.

He inherited a future Cy Young contender, the number one prospect in the minors, and another top-50 hitter in Butler. He was also given $30M in payroll to play with, and almost no demands on performance.

by Top Ramen on Jun 12, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm really shocked

How few trades he’s made. Some of that is a product of a slowing trade market I suppose, but I really thought he’d be wheeling and dealing in an attempt to completely overhaul the roster. Instead, he’s relied heavily on what he’s arguably worst at – identifying free agents.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 12, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This

The started with a barren field and no money for seed argument is crap.

He didn’t have much to work with, but he did have something. And he has something Allard never did- Money. Which, unfortunately, he has shown no skill in spending whatsoever.

by kcbottom9th on Jun 12, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

correction:

he has been exceptional gifted when is comes to actually spending the money

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 12, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

dot dot dot

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 12, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In the way one might "spend a penny"

To use a quaint British/Canadian phrase

by kcbottom9th on Jun 12, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sobering thought:

Right now, the only hope for Royals fans seems to be the rebuilding of the farm system.

Yet the man who is in charge of rebuilding the farm system is the same man who put together the current clusterf@$k of a major league roster.

by Top Ramen on Jun 12, 2009 1:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

to be claer

that I’m not trying to start a “Fire Dayton Moore” movement. No, I don’t think he’s a very good GM overall (love to be proven wrong about this over the next couple of years), but he seems to be doing a decent job with the minor league system, which is the important thing. Moreover, I don’t think the Glass family is smart enough to be able to hire someone better, anyway, since my own subjective feeling is that they mostly hired Dayton because of his reptutation as well as being a charismatic pretty boy relative to many baseball men.

I don’t think Hillman’s a very good manager, but other people seem to realize, in the long run, the manager just doesn’t matter all that much.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 12, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You and I are more in agreement than we think

The sad part to me is, that because our team exists in a small market, it is sorta imperative that the GM and the manager be near the top of their respective fields – being mediocre simply won’t cut it, because we have no margin for error.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Jun 12, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, I agree about that

And I don’t want to let Glass off — SI was out of date, but, yeah, pre-2006 he was very much in Loria’s league as one of the worst owners in sports. And that hurts a great deal. And Glass’s actions are a big reason why there isn’t a better fan base now. Who knows, maybe his cost-benegit guys thought is was better to just be a welfare-queen team than to put more effort out.

The truth is, though, given the current budget and the division, it’s not unrealistic for them to be more competitive, if not necessarily contending this year. But Dayton did what guys like him do — his good moves and the good young potential he was left with (Greinke of course, but Gordon and Butler are cheap [for now] ML ready talent] have been wasted in the millions he spent on mediocre talent. I’d be willing to live with a “cheap” offseason if it meant more money was available down the line; e.g., think about how the Guilen contract screwed up opportunities this offseason. I can’t wait to see what sort of players the Royals will miss out on in 2009-10 due to the HoRam/Farnsoworth/Bloomquist mess.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 12, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

SI is so still out of date

on their Royals page they’ve got that picture slideshow that contains loads of Grud pics and shots of Alex Gordon wearing #7

Yeah? From what I hear, you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a f@#%ing boat.

by BillyMojo on Jun 12, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/teams/royals/

Yeah? From what I hear, you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a f@#%ing boat.

by BillyMojo on Jun 12, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I don’t think DM or Trey are terrible. If given a $100 million payroll and a roster as good as say, the Astros, I think they could probably keep that team around .500 every year and maybe even get lucky and make the playoffs now and then.

But we need an EXCEPTIONAL GM and manager to lead this team out of the hole it has dug for itself. I am not confident Dayton and Trey are that exceptional team.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 12, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree they have to be good

I just don’t think that it would have to be some super-duper genius, the best GM in the game. I’m not saying anyone thinks that, but I would disgree that Dayton’s just a good GM in an impossible situation.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 12, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

overall it's an evolving profession isn't it?

In the general scheme of things over the last few years the job of GM has had to change to create the parity we’re seeing across the league with smaller market teams becoming more competitive with the Yankees-Red Sox-Dodgers type markets.

The things that GM’s in small markets have to do to get it done are always in a state of flux, and what worked last year may very definitely not work this year. Innovations are only innovations if they work. Attempted innovations that don’t work are commonly known as “fuckups”.

Looks like Dayton has attempted some innovations that didn’t work!

Yeah? From what I hear, you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a f@#%ing boat.

by BillyMojo on Jun 12, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

maybe it's just me

but when I think of Dayton Moore’s tenure with the Royals, “innovation” isn’t a word that readily springs to mind

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 12, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ahhh, overpaying for underperforming talent...

Everything old is new again.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jun 12, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ex-Braves are the newest market inefficiency

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 12, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This made me laugh.
Attempted innovations that don’t work are commonly known as "fuckups".

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on Jun 12, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously, Dayton Moore sucks at the free agency part of his job.

He needs help.

But, the reason he has gone that road as opposed to trading for stuff, right or wrong, is that he has two plans going on at once. The short-term and long-term. Free agents, or trading bullpen arms, are fairly minor things. He tried to build a contender for this season and 2010 without sacrificing the future. He continues to stockpile the farm system, and has done a very good job of it overall. Judging by the rumors, it should be a very positive haul for us in the Latin America market. Awesome. Makes it even stronger.

The real question, I think, is when the prospects get ready to come up. Obviously, Dayton needs to step it up with the FA signings. If anything, just tone it down, don’t get so many players, and try and save up for one superstar. If they aren’t there, try to find above-average players. Overpaying isn’t a big deal, particularly if his prospects pay off. But when you overpay for someone like Jose Guillen, make sure that they are at least significantly above average.

So, don’t fire him. Hopefully he won’t completely fuckup this offseason, but even if he does, we still have hope.

At the very least, he’s done a great job at building up the minor league system.

by rockchalk on Jun 12, 2009 9:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

At the very least, he’s done a great job at building up the minor league system.

I’m sure it’s as true as we can know… of course, the best talent is so far from the bigs we won’t _really_know for another two seasons.

But as for the “building the team now,” — yeah, it’s hard, but other than the Meche and Soria acquistions, (both in the 2006-2006 offseason), he’s just done a miserable job give the resources, for the most part. Some acquisitions have been good, don’t get me wrong, but he’s really squandered any “grace period.”

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 13, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I agree.

I’m not offering a grace period, per se, just that he has done good enough work with the minor league system (turning an expansion-team-caliber farm system into a Top 10 one, according to some systems, is no easy job) to warrant sticking out for awhile.

If he begins a firesale here in another month-or-so, or hell, if he just admits one mistake (whether it be Jacobs or Farnsworth or Olivo), and deals them, that will be ap ositive sign. The real telling tale, I think, will be this offseason. If he fails to show that he’s learned his lesson, and goes after the same types of players (or players who are good in other things, but are just as awfully overpaid), then that should be the time when we should all doubt a turnaround. Becasue, by all accounts, this approach has failed. By a bunch. If he can’t see that, then he probably has no hope in ever assembling a good-enough major league team to compete. At least not without a $200 million payroll.

And even then…

by rockchalk on Jun 13, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know DM gets credit for building the farm system

but any idiot with a prospect list could draft Best Player Available in this day and age. And it’s a crapshoot at best right? So why does he get credit for this? He has made a couple of shrewd moves like Jordan Parraz, Paulo Orlando. But then there’s also guys like Tyler Lumsden that he completely whiffed on, and the throw-in that Dan Cortes was becomes the good part in that trade. Anyways, I just don’t buy it.

by AxDxMx on Jun 13, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, he certainly gets credit

for Melville and Montgomery and Duffy.

A host of others, too, really. Obviously, it’s too early to really determine who is awesome and who isn’t, but he has acquired a boatload of talent. Like Kelvin Herrera, a Latin American FA form back in 2007 (IIRC).

And who says that Tyler Lumsden was the centerpiece? Just because he was more highly rated at the time, it doesn’t mean that the Royals went into the trade hoping to get Cortes, and accepting Lumsden along with him. I mean, he still acquired Cortes.

Give the guy credit for what he does right. He’s done an above-average job with the farm system. Maybe even a “good-to-great” job, or something like that. His major league work was probably about average going into this offseason, and now with the Offseason of Death, he’s certainly below average. Overall, he’s probably somewhere around average, maybe a little lower.

Give credit where credit’s due.

by rockchalk on Jun 13, 2009 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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