Comments
Devil Fingers writes for NBC Sports now?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jun 26, 2009 11:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Somoene outside the KC bubble has noticed the inneptidude
by kcbottom9th on Jun 27, 2009 12:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i hope you're being sarcastic
with the spelling you’ve exhibited
Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jun 27, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Arbuckle NOW!
"I can resist everything but temptation." - oscar wylde
by cfizzle on Jun 27, 2009 12:53 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree with most of the analysis of the offseason
but disagree that Dayton needs to be fired already. He deserves at least 2-3 more years to see what the farm produces. Firing him 3 years into a complete system overhaul would be a terrible decision.
It’s sad though that it’s like the Baird years all over again: “Just wait until Player X and Y get here….that’s when we’ll start dominating the division!”
One other note: It’s amazing from the comments on the article and on other blogs, just how many people think/thought that 18-11 start was the true talent level of the team. The incredible starts by Crisp/Jacobs/Bloomquist are taken as the norm instead of the outlier, and injuries are blamed for all of the problems.
Also amusing are the: “No one could’ve predicted that this team would be so bad!” Sure, other than the projection systems and general RR readership.
by Top Ramen on Jun 27, 2009 9:49 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed on both points
Although #1 is mostly because I doubt the Glasses would be able to hire anyone better.
Look, we know Dayton isn’t Billy Beane or Andrew Friedman. Heck, we’d even take Mark Shapiro. And Rany’s dream of him being Dave Dombrowski seems a ways off.
But hey, there’s still a chance he could be Kenny Williams!
- Yup. But keep in mind that inventing sock puppets to make those comments is probably about 60% of Jin Wong’s job description.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on Jun 27, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
stupid formatting, "1." whouls be #2
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on Jun 27, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can't make judgments
after three years on the job. like i’ve said before, you’ve got to at least give him as much time as baird had. i’m not saying that at some point he shouldn’t be fired, and what he’s doing may not work out.
but, he was the best candidate available out there at the time so you’ve got to give his plan time to work. imo, it will be determined by what happens with his first couple of drafts.
this has been an extremely frustrating season for me and i’m sure all royals fans. i do think the “true” talent level of this team is in the neighborhood of .500, but injuries and poor decisions by trey have put us where we are. also frustrating is that some of moore’s moves have limited our ability to improve in 2010. moore is really going to have to get creative this offseason and show what he can do.
Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jun 27, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giving Dayton 2-3 more years on the job may just guarantee that
the Royals don’t see the playoffs til after 2020.
Seriously, one more disastrous offseason and we’re looking at paying for his mistakes into 2012. Do we really want to give him that chance? I say fire him and replace him with Arbuckle. Arbuckle should have been the GM in Philly.
by AxDxMx on Jun 27, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disastrous?
Come on, now. I think that is really going overboard.
So what you’re saying is, that after 6 years of near-total ineptitude by Allard Baird, that we should be contenders within 3 years, but by comparison, after 3 years of what I’ll call slightly above-average performance by DM, it would take someone 11 years to get them to the playoffs?
I am willing to grant that DM may not be the ultimate man for the job; I believe that it is going to take an exceptional person to make us a consistent contender. So far, DM’s performance has not been exceptional. It has, however been above-average IMO. Injuries and poor decisions by Trey Hillman have made this a lost season, but this team was never going to be more than a very slightly above .500 team in any case, with more holes to fill for 2010 to become a legit contender.
What is going to be a problem for DM is to make improvements to the team while keeping payroll at or around $70-$75 million. He is going to have to get really creative and show his stuff to keep the train moving in the right direction.
PS I like Arbuckle too, but the WS winners didn’t see fit to keep him around, so that has to tell us something about him.
Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jun 27, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking strictly on season-to-season on the majors league level
I’m not sure what word I’d use, but “horrible” is at least fair. It’s not like Guillen and Mahay should ever have been expected to work out — yes, Guillen ended up even worse than expected, but only in the absolute best-case scenario would he have been worth his contract. And paying for the best-case scenario is a mark of incompetence in either (1) projecting, or (2) valuing a players projection, or, as is likely with Moore, both.
As for this offseason — um, yeah, see what Top Ramen wrote above. The only people who “didn’t see this coming” were the Usual Geniuses at royals.com, espn.com, and the Royals Front office. Jacobs, et. al., are what we thought they were.
Now, two off-seasons on the major league level don’t make the GM, but they aren’t positive indicators.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on Jun 27, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
guillen, jacobs, crisp, bloomy, horam, olivo, etc....
this is slightly ABOVE average? His payrolls are $20 millionish higher than Baird’s ever were. His best players are Baird players…and the team really isnt significantly better. Not saying Baird was good, but Dayton has been bad so far.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 27, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arbuckle left the Phillies after they chose the other guy for GM
it had nothing to do with “but the WS winners didn’t see fit to keep him around”.
Also, yes, this offseason was disastrous. A monkey could have signed Greinke, that’s a no brainer. I’d say 75% of this site said the move for Jacobs was bad, and the move for Crisp was ok to bad. Not to mention Farnsworth, HoRam, and Ponson. Given another offseason for DMGM what do you expect him to do. Here’s what I expect:
- Go to arbitration with Jacobs or sign a deal splitting the difference
- Pick up Crisp’s option
- Pick up Olivo’s option and trade him or Buck
- Farnsworth will still be here
- Guillen may still be here
- Try to sign another big FA, but when none of the top tier will sign here, DMGM will overpay for mediocre talent yet again with somebody like Jack Wilson and hamstring this club for more years with a bad contract thus keeping the team from playoff contention
- Might as well bring in another 1B and make sure Kila never sees the light of day
- Will go after more ex-Braves because those are apparently the bestest players out there
Obviously the list descends into farce at the end, but would you put it past him?
I like the fact that he hasn’t committed money to anyone beyond next year that isn’t a core player or young enough to control. That is helping me keep hope alive for the future. But I’m starting to believe that Dayton doesn’t have the necessary skills to pick out the best talent at the MLB level. So what’s that tell you about the players he’s drafting? It has me worried shitless. While the big names seem like can’t miss guys right now, I wonder if we’ll feel that way in 3 years? I think in 3 years, we are going to look back and wish he had been fired this year. It feels like he is trying to build the Royals teams we saw in the 1990’s that didn’t work (veteran bats and young pitchers, remember Dean Palmer?), while trying to make the pitching good enough to overcome that.
by AxDxMx on Jun 28, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
JEFF KING NOW!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jun 28, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in effect it did
because they knew if they didn’t give arbuckle the job he was gone.
most of your points above are redundant and/or superfluous. i will readily agree that i’ll be very disappointed if we keep jacobs after this year’s performance. i think we need to see kaaihue and what he can do.
i also agree that we don’t know what we’ve got with our minor leaguers. we’ve heard this song and dance before with prospects.
one difference i think there is between the baird and moore regimes is that with baird, there seemed to be a different plan every year. this somewhat was a continuation of the end of the robinson regime as well. we’d blow the budget with a big draft signing like Jeff Austin, then a couple of years later we’d go cheap.
of all baird’s faults, his most damning to me was that he was unwilling or unable to stay the course and implement a consistent philosophy, alternating between a moneyball approach and an old-school approach. then, on top of that, we rushed the few good players we had up too early and ruined a lot of them.
Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jun 28, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what's the course now?
OBP was the buzzword in the offseason and we all know how that turned out.
Building bullpens from scraps (ignoring big money for two relievers)? We know how well that turned out.
I really do not know where Dayton is taking this club.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on Jun 28, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'll grant you obp
but i don’t remember moore ever commenting on how to build a bullpen. i think that was more a construction of the fans.
i’m talking more about building through the minor leagues and actually having the fortitude to see it through, not panicking and calling up danny cortes and carlos rosa, or promoting moustakas to AA so that fans can see the fruits of the rebuilding.
i do think, that if baird (and yes i’ll grant that the glasses probably had a lot to do with it) had exhibited more patience earlier in the decade that we would have been much, much closer to contention at this point in time.
just look at some of the pitchers that we could have either kept or leveraged into tradable commodities- rosado, durbin, ascensio-had we been patient and not rushed them to the majors or thrown their arms off too early.
had we had a long-term focus, we could have gotten some real prospects for jermaine dye and carlos beltran, instead of insisting on getting near-major league ready pieces. perhaps we also could have gotten something for joe randa.
Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jun 28, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give him time
GMDM overpaid for Farnsworth and Guillen. He also overpaid for Meche and that is looking like a pretty good investment right now. The Royals have to overpay to attract free agents, and since the AAA and AA clubs still have major holes they will probably have to overpay again in this next off-season.
Moore has also shown patience with the development of the team’s young players, and the owners need to wait to see if that patience is rewarded. Under the previous regime Moose and Hosmer would be in AA by now. I like the fact that they have to show mastery of one level before going up another level, and maintain it or go back down (e.g. Rowdy Hardy). One thing that has driven me nuts this year is the little league errors – I would like to see them get those out of their system in the minors rather than on FSM.
by Valcour on Jun 27, 2009 2:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, we overpaid for Meche
But we were actually competing to sign him against other actual teams. Not like Guillen, HoRam, Bloomquist, Farnsworth, etc.
If that doesn’t give you pause, then I don’t know what will.
by AxDxMx on Jun 28, 2009 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Popular saying, but I don't buy that much into it.
The Royals have to overpay to attract free agents
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on Jun 27, 2009 2:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
more like “Dayton Moore overpays to attract free agents” and people assumed that Moore knew what he was doing, so he “had” to.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on Jun 27, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could buy it for the top players
like the Torii Hunters, Orlando Hudsons, etc.
but not the HoRams, Bloomquists, and Farnsworths of the world
by Top Ramen on Jun 27, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, the Royals would have had to "overpay" Orlando Hudson with a guaranteed $8M for this season
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on Jun 27, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dayton did prove one thing
that if you gave a Royals GM the money he needed, he will still fuck up.
Still suffering from the greatest robbery of all time: The stealing of the 1994 AL Central title from the Royals
by BHWick on Jun 27, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I do wonder what the differences with Baird are sometimes
DM’s supposed strength, the draft. Probably is just that. We will see, but it at least looks promising. But Baird hardly sucked did he? He drafted Butler, Gordon, Aviles, Maier and of course Greinke. The decision to take Hooch was probably his also, even if he wasn’t actually in place by draft time.
All players with significant ML service. Kila will almost certainly join them at some point. He also drafted JP Howell, who DM traded in for Gathright. Maybe I’m out of line with most people’s expectations, but I’d say that is a pretty decent crop from 6 years a GM. The downside is that he left no real depth in the minors, but with the financial constraints he operated under (that DM doesn’t) I wonder how much of that is really his fault.
On the major league side, they look very similar. Both haven’t done a very good job of evaluating major league players.
I don’t know. I just don’t quite see the massive upgrade that others do.
by kcbottom9th on Jun 27, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dayton will looks smarter if
Eric Hosmer can actually hit for power in a wooden bat league
Still suffering from the greatest robbery of all time: The stealing of the 1994 AL Central title from the Royals
by BHWick on Jun 27, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its easy to pick a top 5 player in the draft when you're giving top 5 (or most money ever) to sign said players
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 27, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats my point
Baird didn’t have the resources of Moore. Hell, even Billy Butler was considered a reach in the draft. And he effectively had a 3 round draft for most of his tenure, none of this picking signabilty guys in later rounds. Considering that, I don’t think Baird did too bad really.
They are both scouts. Both would make great scouting directors. Both are overmatched as a GM.
by kcbottom9th on Jun 27, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like Chuck LaMar.
They are both scouts. Both would make great scouting directors. Both are overmatched as a GM.
by RATW on Jun 27, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Butler, Gordon, Greinke
All came near the end of Allard’s tenure. It took him a good 5-6 years to figure out the draft. Up til then, DJ was pretty much the only player he drafted that turned into squat.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jun 27, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is Arbuckle's role now?
I know he’s an advisor, but what kind of influence do you think he has over DM? You’ve got to think that listen’s to Arbuckle’s opinions and isn’t always doing the opposite. For all we know, Arbuckle could be the reason Francoeur isn’t a royal.
I still support DM, but I need to see some bold moves this July. Kila has to be called up and play the remainder of the season. TPJ has to be released. Guillen has to be traded…even if only for A and AA talent.
by rph on Jun 27, 2009 4:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I suspect, although I wish it were otherwise,
that when Guillen is finally “traded” in a face-saving transaction much like the Gload trade — one that is pretty much just a release, with the Royals eating most of the remaining contract and getting a token player in return. Then certain commentators will blab about how Moore is “learning about sunk costs” or sometihng like that.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on Jun 27, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can tolerate hearing that if Guillen is shipped elsewhere.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on Jun 27, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Although it really depends on how much contract he can offload. Screw a return, I would give him away for $1 if someone would take on 75% of his salary.
I just doubt he gets moved unless we pay a very sizeable chunk, which kind of defeats the purpose.
by kcbottom9th on Jun 27, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moore is bascially a good Palyer Development Director
I do like what he’s doing on the farm. I do. The whole ‘pitching is the currency of baseball’ thing and stock piling of arms with select few offensive acquisitions is probably how I’d build a farm system too. Some of these guys might turn out to be good players. ’08 draft was lauded around baseball. ’09 draft appears solid.
He’s even had a few nice successes at the major league level. The Meche signing was very against-the-grain (remember the John Heyman ‘Meche is a Joke and so are the Royals’ article?). Callaspo trade was solid. Soria acquisition is already one of the great Rule 5 picks. Ramon Ramirez was a great find. And don’t forget about Octavio Dotel, David Riske (fantastic for one season), Ron Mayhay (’08 model). And the Greinke signing was…well, I shudder to imagine it not having happened.
He was a promising young GM with a sparkling pedigree, carefully groomed by Mr. Miagi (Schuerholz). A college player, a great scout by most accounts. And even more than all of that, he appeared to have the instincts of a good, perhaps great leader at a time when the Royals desperately needed leadership.
Can you really undo all of that in one offseason? Probably not.
Can you undo all of that in two offseasons? Yeah, I think maybe you can.
Look, it wasn’t just the Ho-Ram and Farnsworth signings, which were SO inexplicable they made us question his ability to lead—and trust me, I never would have thought two middle-relievers could have such an impact (you can criticize the Jacobs and Bloomquist acquisitions plenty, but they weren’t INEXPLICABLE. It was Ho-Ram and Farns that made us not believe what we were reading).
Ho-Ram and Farns were just the unbelievable icing on a cake that was baked in 2007.
*You think I'm good* "You know, that Farnsworth is pretty good." *You will give me 9 million dollars* "So, Farnsy, how does $9 million sound?"
by jackie ballgame on Jun 27, 2009 10:32 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
general agreement
a few things (I’ve been trying to stay away from this for a bit, but so much I agree with… just have to throw in my two cents again)
Riske was a decent signing, "fantastic’ is overdone .I mean, for Moore, i t was fantastic relative to most of his signings since.
Mahay was an okay pitcher last year (especially compared to last year), but even last year he wasn’t close to being worth the money.
I much as I love Ramon Ramirez — well, de la Rosa was more valuable than him last year, and looks like he’s going to be even better this year. Now, I wouldn’t have projected that, and if I thought Moore was a “stats guy,” I wouldn’t blame him for it… except that he’s not a stats guy. He’s supposed to see things that “aren’t in the stats.” de la Rosa would have been the third best starter on the Royals last season, and also this season… and, of course, for the money, de la Rosa is currently ahead of Crisp in WAR straight up… that was true before the injury…
Again, I’m in general agreement about both Meche and Soria, and your overall tone. But even some of his “good” transactoins either haven’t been as good as we thought, and others were actually bad (Mahay is a great exampe of the latter).
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on Jun 27, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you're probably right
I was just so much in irrational love with Moore at the time (why?), I looked upon those signings as ‘fantastic’. Less so in retrospect, I have to concede.
*You think I'm good* "You know, that Farnsworth is pretty good." *You will give me 9 million dollars* "So, Farnsy, how does $9 million sound?"
by jackie ballgame on Jun 27, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, it's just a slightly distinction
I’m in basic difference
and no need not apologize. While I was s bit suspicious of Moore as last season unfolded, I didn’t totally start to “lose” it until the Jacobs signing, with Farnsworth and Bloomquist pushing me over the edge — almost completely. Anyone can change, I guess.
Plus, he’s so dreamy.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on Jun 27, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: Soria
and isn’t this find credit to a long time Royals scout?
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on Jun 27, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know the story
I figured it was because he was in “”http://www.royalsreview.com/2009/6/24/924096/joakim-soria-in-his-youth-so-cute" target="new">the" system from childhood:
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on Jun 27, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
d'oh
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on Jun 27, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly,
that might be the truth.
But I remember reading that a scout watched him pitch in Mexico and was blown away. I’ll check the google and see if it comes up.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
by Warden11 on Jun 27, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, that is correct
DMGM had nothing to do with it except actually picking him the Rule 5, but he went on the scouts word and they kept it hush hush so they wouldn’t lose him to a team picking earlier. There was one other team hot on Soria’s jock.
by AxDxMx on Jun 28, 2009 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cake of 2007
We needed an outfielder and we needed some thump, and Moore’s first choice to fill both needs was Torii Hunter. I remember debating with friends, at the time, who would be a better sign Hunter or Andruw Jones. However, the only reason there was a debate at all was that we were assuming we would get Jones at a discount. A major discount. Jones had just come off an eyebrow raising season where his walk/strikeout ratio skewed steeply in the wrong direction. He was obviously an extremely risky sign, even at a discount. That Moore went after Hunter first somewhat lessens the fauxpaus of what he wound up doing, but the Hunter pursuit notwithstanding, plan B was Jones. And I recall Dutton-based rumors that Moore was offering a LOT of money to Jones, (which surprises no one).
Of course, Ned Colletti offered even more than Moore, so I guess we have to include Colletti in this discussion. But at least Colletti has L.A. market money to burn on mistakes.
But the cake that Moore baked in 2007 and iced with Ho-Ram and Farns, was Hoagy. Nobody liked that contract. Why it didn’t get national media attention for its badness, I have no idea. Perhaps because national Moore critics had been made to look so stupide my Meche the year before, they feared making the same mistake twice. While Guillen was abstractly intriguing—mainly because of the awfulness of the Royals’ offense—the contract figure was shocking. And Moore was competing against exactly no one for Guillen. We predicted here at the Discerning Eye of Royals Review at the time of that signing that the Guillen contract would hamstring our ability to sign free agents for three years and that’s exactly what it did. It was an inexplicable contract at the time it was consummated, and it’s inexplicable now.
Plug that last sentence into the Farns deal.
So, while I really, really like what Moore has done with the farm system, and really even like some of the moves he’s made at the major league level, Guillen Ho-Ram and Farns have completely mitigated all of that progress. It’s not those three players, mind you, it’s the 17+ million per year that any number of other players should have been earning in Royal Blue.
I just don’t trust the man. How can you?
*You think I'm good* "You know, that Farnsworth is pretty good." *You will give me 9 million dollars* "So, Farnsy, how does $9 million sound?"
by jackie ballgame on Jun 27, 2009 10:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i am generally in agreement with you
however, what i don’t get from a lot of people is that he is either “great” or a “turd”, with absolutely nothing in-between. while we have hashed and re-hashed his signings here ad infinitum, perhaps it would be instructive to look at the following contracts:
Juan Pierre-5 years $44 million
Gary Matthews Jr.-5 years $50 million
Carl Pavano-4 years $40 million
Julio Lugo-4 years $36 million
Eric Chavez-6 years $66 million
Dontrelle Willis-3 years $29 million
It isn’t just Moore. sometimes GMs miss. the good ones miss less and/or have the resources to cover up their mistakes. if we want to say that he isn’t good enough, or he isn’t the right man for the job, then fine. i think it’s way too early to say one way or another. we really won’t know until we see what happens with his drafts (and believe me, i think the jury’s still out). did allard baird do some good things, even in a terrible position? of course. do his negatives outweigh the positives? by a wide margin imo.
has dm done some good things? absolutely. do they outweigh the negatives? on the major-league level, he’s probably been average overall. do we know the totality of his moves yet, including the minor leagues? not by a long shot. so, for a gm that is hanging his hat on building a strong farm system that allows the team to be competitive year in and year out, it is way, way too early to start making judgments on his tenure.
perhaps he needs someone that is devoted strictly to major league talent acquisition (if he doesn’t currently have such a person)?
Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jun 27, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kinda funny
DM would probably be a better GM if he had Allard’s budget.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jun 28, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why, because
he wouldn’t be able to blow $$$ on worthless guys? could be something to that.
but, i still think it’s a matter of not enough talent overall. guillen’s contract sucks, but meche’s is great. look at it this way, it could have been guillen for 5/55 and meche for 3/36. then we’d really be in a world of hurt money-wise.
every gm has some dogs on their resume, even RR deities like theo epstein and billy beane. what i really worry about is if we all of a sudden change course, and sit there and say that we’ve got to start calling some players up to show fans that the rebuilding is paying off. that is exactly the kind of crap that happened during the baird era.
Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jun 28, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bullpen should be better that way
it seems like whenever you give a small market GM money, the first thing they do is load up on veteran relievers for their “proven” performance
by Top Ramen on Jun 28, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's one bad offseason
And that’s all it is. Neither 2006-2007 or 2007-2008 was bad. 2007—the Meche signing was spectacular, the Soria pick was even better, Angel Berroa was done away with (you really don’t want him back, do you?), and a lot of dross was turned for something else worth trying (e.g. MacDougal, Sisco, Burgos). 2008 was not all that, but frustration with scoring meant tha the team and the fan base desperately wanted a power hitter in a non-power hitter market—the downhill tumbling Jones and Torii Hunter were the top of the market, and Guillen literally was the next guy available. Add in the RH requirement (not necessarily unreasonable due to having far more LH offensive “threats” in the lineup (Gordon, Teahen, DDJ vs. Butler and ???) at that point. He’s overpaid for what he’s absolutely worth, but was only overpaid a little in that in that market (3/30 might have been right). Olivo was a signing out of frustration for waiting for Buck to put it all together, and was better last year than this year. Ramirez was the kind of pickup I wish he did all the time, but you’ll miss with as many as you hit with that approach. And Hillman was considered a top managerial “prospect” that, at the time, seemed like a good idea.
I concede that, other than the Greinke extension and the Crisp signing (which admitted backfired, but was worth the gamble for outfield range and “veteran presence”), 2008-2009 was a dog. A big part of that was the August 2008 decision to stock the team with veterans who “play the game the right way” and “know how to be major leaguers” so that the major league team was no longer a place to see if they should be a major leaguer or not anymore. I’m fully convinced that recreating the “attitude” and “intangibles” of the team was at least as important as the quality of the players to Moore. Unfortunately, they’ve all turned out to have a collective quality of crap. Further, he tried to get ahead of a market that he didn’t need to get ahead of. And I admit the indecision involved with players like Gload, German, Gobble, who should have been cut loose long before they were cost the team money, makes it even worse Lots of other bizarre, unfortunate, and plain bad moves—keeping TPJ while picking up Bloomquist (or just keeping him at all), not moving Teahen when he didn’t have a position here, keeping Buck and Olivo. It was a bad offseason, a really bad offseason, and it’s translated on the field, as expected by many before the first pitch on opening day.
But…it’s still only one bad offseason. My hope is that he learns from it and doesn’t make the same mistakes again. Now, if 2009-2010 looks like this year in new player acquisition, no more benefit will be given to the doubt, and I to will join the questioning of Moore’s ability to construct a major league roster. Until then, too many other good systemic changes (big money drafts, a real Latin American presence, a front office full of experienced baseball guys) allow me to give the guy a little more time with some sense of peace.
Yeah, it was a stupid screen name.
by CentralChamps2009 on Jun 28, 2009 12:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm....
Gullen 3/30? Who else was offering him any money? We should have played hardball with him, but DMGM needed to sign him quickly for some reason.
Hillman a top managerial prospect? Well we thought he was. But rumor has it that the Yankees never even considered him for their job, and that was one of the supposed selling points. That we were stealing a Yankee man.
It’s funny what a little money from your owner can do in the draft and in Latin America. Something is starting to tell me that Baird would have been a much better GM had Glass given him some actual money to work with.
I say blame it all on Nick Schwartz.
by AxDxMx on Jun 28, 2009 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
According to MLB Trade Rumors
Royals, Orioles In Lead For Jose Guillen
By Tim Dierkes [November 26, 2007 at 10:53pm CST]
According to Enrique Rojas of ESPN Deportes, the Royals and Orioles are the frontrunners to sign free agent outfielder Jose Guillen. That link is in Spanish so feel free to correct me if my translation is off. The article was published on November 18th.
Rojas reports that eight teams have shown interest in signing Guillen to a multiyear deal. We knew the Royals were dead set on Guillen; the Orioles part is new to me. The O’s already have Nick Markakis in right, so perhaps Guillen would be used in left. Sounds like he’s pretty popular despite the steroid revelations. Maybe he’ll get that three-year, $30MM deal after all.
As for the Baird thing, I tend to agree, Baird may have been better if given the freedom Moore has. But Moore got that freedom by convincing Glass that it was required (he also got Dan Glass as far away from baseball decisions as possible, another kudo), something Baird was never going to do. By any random account I’ve come across, Moore is rebuilding an entire organization, and doing so pretty well. I agree that the 25 guys on the active roster are the most important people he employs, but he’s done enough for the organization otherwise to get at least a little mercy—for now.
Yeah, it was a stupid screen name.
by CentralChamps2009 on Jun 28, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, THAT makes me feel better
I bet there were 15-16 teams in the Juan Pierre Sweepstakes
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by devil_fingers on Jun 28, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, how come the Royals don't have Francouer yet?
All the rumor sites say we’re seriously into him.
by AxDxMx on Jun 28, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy that rumor
Dayton Moore shamed him into accepting our offer by talking about moving on:
I would imagine part of Moore’s frustation was that he offered $2M per year more than what Guillen was asking for, and knew no one else would match it. In fact, I remember how quiet it was around Guillen after the steroid thing came out. There was zero interest in him, except from the Royals.
The article says he might have been waiting on an offer from the Mets that never came because they got Ryan Church. I just don’t think Guillen wanted to play for our suck ass team. So yes, we had to over pay to get him, but Dayton should have kept lowering his offer as time moved on.
by AxDxMx on Jun 28, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs














