Royals Review Midafternoon Links: The Injury Excuse

by royalsreview on Jun 30, 2009 1:14 PM EDT in News Comment 55 comments

Nope, no reason to be worried here. Carry on, everyone. Meche ‘good to go’ for next start, manager says - Kansas City Star
Mellinger plays the injury card in defending the leadership, yet also snipes at Rany's post on the training staff. He's really in the wrong line of work at this point. Sam needs to head into politics. The arguments that your arguments for firing Trey Hillman are stupid | Mellinger's Blog on the Royals and Baseball
Remember the month-long obsession with the Rangers and their improved pitching and the magical power of Nolan Ryan's old school machismo? As Lookout Landing writes, " the Texas Rangers haven't had a single starting pitcher turn in an average or above-average season to date." Defense matters.
Luke looking good, but just how good is good? | Upon Further Review
A Little Luck - Royals Authority
Number 1s of Michael Jackson and the Royals | Kings of Kauffman | A Kansas City Royals Blog
A double Royals victory night: KC and Omaha both win again - Royal Blues
The Incredible Significance of Ryan Langerhans: A Brief Reflection - Driveline Mechanics

0 recs | Comment 55 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Mellinger going into politics?

only if Hillman and the Royals don’t bring him in to be the Team Stenographer. Ha. ;)

I love how the Treyheads continually admit how much Trey sucks at his job, but that we mustn’t move the Mustache until we get a good team. After all, if you blow it with a great team like how you blew it with lousy teams, THEN we MIGHT fire you.

Still suffering from the greatest robbery of all time: The stealing of the 1994 AL Central title from the Royals

by BHWick on Jun 30, 2009 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

and

I swear the pro-Hillman arguments are almost the exact same as the pro-Muser arguments.

Remember how we just needed to give Tony Muser some more hitting, pitching, and talent, then it’d be fair to judge him?

Still suffering from the greatest robbery of all time: The stealing of the 1994 AL Central title from the Royals

by BHWick on Jun 30, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fail for not including this picture

I’m not sure whether this or the Celery/Moose pennant-RR picture should be the offical 2009 pic of Royals Review:

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 30, 2009 1:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

oh god not Mr. Celery/RR

by royalsreview on Jun 30, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

HAHA I already immortalized it on

ballhype

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 30, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

same smug SOB

different year:

by royalsreview on Jun 30, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope the new one makes it onto Hapless Royals at some point

the smile is much more awesomer on the new one

If you put the Celery one on the new RR t-shirt, I’ll buy two.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 30, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

we need new RR shirts

with a classic trey line on them I’m thinking, something actually wearable

by royalsreview on Jun 30, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you think the Soria starter wars were bad

wait until we try to decide which line to go with

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 30, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

seems like Minda would be a good candidate to go on a trip to Wilmington

for a joint interview with both mascots

then onthe way back, get an interview with the Naturals “thing”

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 30, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We need a caption contest for this.

“Trey, what is a significant sample size to base matchups off of?”

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 30, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Posnanski thought he was going to corner me, but I showed him."

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 30, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trey, how many seasons have you been able to fake being a manager?

Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.

by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Jun 30, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

to be fair, mellinger's post concludes this way:

Please don’t take any of this to mean that Trey’s doing a knockout job. He’s not. He’s the manager of a team playing .326 ball over the last almost eight weeks, so by the definition of the job, he’s not doing well.

There are little things here and there that we all see he could do better with, and probably some big things, too.

But all he’s really proved this season is that he can’t win as the manager of a team that had very little margin for error to start with, and then proceeds to be decimated by injuries and key underperformances.

by royalsreview on Jun 30, 2009 1:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

yeah

the “he sucks, but…” stuff is only useful unless Mellinger has a line for Trey to cross to lose his job after 2009. If he doesn’t.. then Sam is as good as a kool-aid drinker

Still suffering from the greatest robbery of all time: The stealing of the 1994 AL Central title from the Royals

by BHWick on Jun 30, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One of the comments said 2012,

if Trey still has a job with the Royals in 2012, I’ll be very shocked.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on Jun 30, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll go back to the post I did when I officially went negative

what does Trey Hillman do well?

I don’t think he SUCKS !!!!!111111 hardcore or anything, but I do think that 1.5 seasons in we’re still looking for a single positive attribute he has:

1) managing personalities? no
2) handling the bullpen deftly? no
3) doling out proper playing time for position players? no, but admittedly, he has few non-horrible options
4) arranging his players to maximize splits and or defense? no
5) handling injuries well? no

by royalsreview on Jun 30, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, but

6) awesome, epoch-making quotes and terminology

“slug”
“massage”
“force the envelope”
“Mahay’s not a lefty specialist”
“fearful ABs”

And the all-time greatest:

“I didn’t know you were going to ask me a baseball question.”

Pretty sure JoPo secretly turned on Trey last season… Anyone notice Poz slipping this in during his latest Gardy love post?

But for our purposes, the point is that we even GOT a Joe Nathan vs. Albert Pujols confronation. You can bet some managers — cough-Hillman-cough — would have called for the walk there.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 30, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

AWESOMER

The current Civil War Era Moustachio.

"Well, if we destroy Kansas the world may not hear about it for years." Blofeld

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Jun 30, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So

Trey would be a better manager if he had better talent. And Dayton has done a good job at assembling talent. And if its not Nick Swartz then the real culprit is……

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 30, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait, Sam

Mike Jacobs underperformed expectation? Um, right… No one saw that coming.

I love all the “underpeforming” stuff at a time when Olivo and Blomquist are still playing over their heads…

Anyone else think all Mellinger’ s recently-continueal talk about whether or not it’s “fair” is all just an irrelevant distraction from the real issue that should be discussed?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 30, 2009 1:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

that picture holds the key to the problem

he has a BS and MS rather than a BA and MA

More humanities = key to sabermetric success

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 30, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I knew I have should have majored in PE

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on Jun 30, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea...

Hillman is not the issue here (Lebowski quote?)

by royalsreview on Jun 30, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey! Take it easy, I've got a beverage here!

"Well, if we destroy Kansas the world may not hear about it for years." Blofeld

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Jun 30, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah, yes

now we get to the heart of the matter

unless you’ve got a PhD in statistical theory from MIT, you are eminently unqualified to be the GM of a major league baseball team. there is one and only one way to run a team.

Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jun 30, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you nailed me!

I make a minor joke about a Bachelor of Arts versus a Bachelor of Science (a distinction that is almost completely outdated in the academy), and you take it to be a statement about how to run a baseball team.

I guess I’ve always thought and said that as a fan, while I have opinions on what players are better than others, I don’t care how the team is made better as long as it gets better, that you’ve correctlky deduced from that statement that, despite Dayton Moore’s obvious brilliance, that I’m so blinded by my domatism that I can’t see how good this team really is.

Thank you for your correction. I should go back and read all of your positive posts about the Royals the last couple years to put my head on straight.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 30, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Come on, now

you have been relentless in punishing DM at every turn. I plead 100% guilty to being very negative at times. but, like i’ve said before, i don’t understand why DM has to be either the greatest GM ever or a complete and utter failure?

believe me, i get where you’re at with DM; I was there with Carl Peterson for a long, long time. he couldn’t do anything right as far as I’m concerned, and I saw an evil ulterior motive in every move he made. but, it took nearly a decade of his BS and style over substance before I got there with him. I may end up there with Moore, but not yet.

I will just say, it does seem that you are predisposed towards negativitiy re: DM because he is not a sabermatrician. All I’m saying is that, as a Royals fan, does it really matter how we get there as long as we get there? Surely you can see that there is more than one way to build a franchise.

Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jun 30, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, there is more than one way

I’ll readily admit to having been much more negative starting with the Jacobs acquisition — but I don’t think I’ve been especially unfair. I’ve said nice thing about moves he made that I thought were good — Meche and Soria, but also the Callaspo acquisition. I still think the Davies trade was a good move (for the process, even if Davies never is productive again). And so on.

Yes, the sabermetrics thng plays a part. But not becuase Moore isn’t a sabermetrician. Bily Beane isn’t a sabermetrician. He started as a scout. Theo Epstein is familiar with sabermetrics, but he’s a lawyer by training, right? Andrew Friedman was a college baseball player, as was Paul DePodesta. Jack Zduriencik never went to college, either (I don’ t think) — he was a player who became a scout who became a director of player develpment. And so on.

It would just be nice if there was any evidence Dayton Moore paid any attention to sabermetrics. Although the blogosphere may (or may not) be dominated by sabermetrics-oriented stuff, despite the growth of such analaysis in the game, baseball is not. That’s fine. But my point is not that sabermetric approaches should dominate the Royals thinking — scouting is essential to the game, particularly player development, and will be forever,probably, and should be.

Are the Royals at the bottom of the league in terms of time devoted to sabermetrics? I don’t know. They aren’t in the top half. I don’ t know where they should be. Yes, for the money they blew on HoRam, they could probably be in the top 10 teams, that’s for sure.

The point isn’t that there’s “too much scouting,” it’s that there is apparently very little statistical approaches at all. This isn’t out of thin air. Dayton Moore is apparently one of the heros of Scouts Honor, which is basically about how the Braves don’t need those fancy numbers, etc. When DMGM got the job, the author (who is close to the Atlanta organization) went on radio to crow about how Moore “doesn’ tknow what VORP is.” You know what — if someone doesn’t like VORP (I don’t, but for different reasons), that’s fine. Heck, even if you prefer OPS, that’s fine, if you have reasons. But to not even know what it is? That’s just willful ignorance of something important in your own field. I mean, it’s one thing for a a biologist to reject punctuated equilibrium (which is hardly universally accepted), but would we still want him to teach evolutionary theory if we found out he didn’t even know what it was?

But like I said — the sabermetrics thing is just a part. Yeah, I believe in “process,” but ultimately, there are multiple good processes, too. The Marlins aren’t known as much of a numbers team, and they seem to do a far superior job of valuing and acquiring players than the Royals do (as we Royals fans should know) on a far less gaudy budget.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 30, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

(if only those Marlins could get some sucker team to trade for those players as their salaries grow out of the Marlins’s budget, and also get back cheap, above-average players at the same time.)

by benfunke on Jun 30, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

no disagreement there

i am all for finding whatever works. willfully ignoring something that may be of importance is not only irresponsible but arrogant.

however, do we know that’s the case, that he’s ignoring some statistical concepts, or doesn’t even know what they are? sounds kind of an exaggeration to me. regardless, there is a bottom line that everyone is accountable for sooner or later, and that’s wins and losses-regardless of how you get there, you’ve got to win games or sooner or later you’re going to get replaced.

somewhat surprisingly, i am willing to give him more time (like it’s up to me). ultimately, the man has got to produce a winning product or he’s gone. i don’t care if it’s him or somebody else, i just want the royals to be consistent winners. i hope it’s him because i don’t want to have to go through all of this crap again.

Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jun 30, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, despite my frustration

I don’t want him to be fired, althougn it’s mostly because I’m not sure the Glass family would do any better

And heck, kenny Williams has put together some good teams, and I don’t think it’s crazy to think Moore might be as good as Kenny Williams

wow, have my expectations crashed

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 30, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Krazy Kenny

seems to pull it out of his ass sometimes, doesn’t he?

hey, krazy kenny won a WS, so if Moore can do that, then we’d all be pretty happy, huh?

Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jun 30, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought that last year

the Royals used the same outside consultant for saber stats that the Mariners were using. I think he went full time with them this year – or something. Anyway, I don’t recall ever hearing if the Rs picked up someone else to help them with that or simply dumped the whole program (whatever it was).

I truly don’t understand why a team can’t run two screens on players if they have to. Evaluate players, totally independently, in a traditionalist manner and in a stats manner. Each would produce a players ranking by position and see where there is overlap. Simply picking players that both lists liked and that fit the need and financial viability would be some kind of improvement.

"Well, if we destroy Kansas the world may not hear about it for years." Blofeld

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Jun 30, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

this picture woudl also be awesome on a t-shirt

along with the “worst mistake I ever make” quote

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 30, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That piece by Mellinger was painful to read.

He goes through all the injuries that are hurting this team, ignoring how they were handled and ALL (except Buck because he collapsed) were allowed to keep playing after the injuries showed up AS he calls out Rany!

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on Jun 30, 2009 1:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

is it really worse than his Meche column?

After all, if Nolan Ryan can throw lots of pitches, so can a guy who is having back problems!

Still suffering from the greatest robbery of all time: The stealing of the 1994 AL Central title from the Royals

by BHWick on Jun 30, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

a summary of Royals injuries, 2009

Alex Gordon: OUCH… I guess i’ll rest… I’m playing? OUCCCCCCCCH MY HIP… DL Time now

Joakim Soria: OUCH… I guess i’ll rest… I guess I can pitch.. OUCCCCCCCCH MY ROTATOR CUFF… DL Time now

Tony Pena Jr: OW MY HAND, I’m going to swing anyways, DL Time, Dayton, I have photos of you, I’M BACK

Mike Aviles: DUDE, OUCH… Dude, I guess i’ll rest… Dude, I’m playing? DUDE, OUCCCCCCCCH MY WRIST… Dude, DL Time now

Coco Crisp: OUCH… I guess i’ll rest…. I’ll go to that funeral… I’m playing? OUCCCCCCCCH MY LABRUM… DL Time now

Kyle Farnsworth: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO PLOP

Gil Meche: MY BACK.. Wow, 116 pitches?… MY BACK.. I’ll move on the rubber.. MY ARM.. I’m fine, I swear (tbc)

Still suffering from the greatest robbery of all time: The stealing of the 1994 AL Central title from the Royals

by BHWick on Jun 30, 2009 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs

I laughed at this.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

by Warden11 on Jun 30, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Me too.

This should be Exhibit A at the Nick Swartz unemployment hearing.

by Black and Gold on Jun 30, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How had this not been rec'd before now?!?

You’re slipping, rr community ;)

by sterlingice on Jun 30, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it has 4 recs..

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 30, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I saw none at the time, but maybe FF wasn't updating

by sterlingice on Jun 30, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

“BALE, GET OFF YOUR ASS, RUB SOME DIRT ON THAT GOD DAMN THYROID AND GET OUT THERE. THIS TEAM IS SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR DAMN LITTLE WIMPY EXCUSES EVERY YEAR.”

"Well, if we destroy Kansas the world may not hear about it for years." Blofeld

The General Theory of Royaltivity

by kabrink on Jun 30, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's been a bad year

all around, for the most part. Some of it is bad luck, some of it is underperformance, some of it is injuries, some of it is questionable spending in the offseason. There’s a lot of blame to go around.

But, I still don’t understand why some people are trying to defend Hillman. He’s impossible for me to defend in any way because he’s just so damn uninspiring. Trey is a mediocre manager, plain and simple. In his tenure, he’s been the equivalent of two years of interim Bob Schaeffer or John Mizerock. He has no character other than being a mediocre dude with a long Texas drawl, and I know ton of those guys personally. He has not put a stamp on the franchise at all. Say what you want about Bob Boone, Hal McRae, Tony Pena, Buddy Bell, and Tony Muser but at least they had some fire to their tenures. At least they tried some things that were strange, that showed they were desperately trying to cling to life on a sinking ship, even if their actions were not necessarily inspirational or helpful to the team in any way. Trey’s injected no life into the Royals franchise at all. And if you’re not going to inject life in the franchise, you need to be a master tactician, and he is the farthest thing from that since Buddy Bell. So essentially, Trey brings NOTHING to the table from a managerial perspective.

When it comes down to it, he’s just a dude who happened to manage in Japan. That might sound awesome to some people, but we’ve learned that it’s really not. Whatever benefits were thought to be gained from his hire were flushed down the toilet somewhere between signing Yasuhiko Yabuta and hitting Mike Jacobs against a LH starter for the 25th time this season. I honestly have no idea how Trey was such a big thing in Japan. Don’t they go for extreme character guys like Bobby V.? Trey has no character. John Gibbons has more fire and character than Hillman.

Trey is just Trey in every sense of the word. Nothing special.

Waiting for April.

by DC Royal on Jun 30, 2009 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs

in Japan

the nail that sticks up gets hammered down

by benfunke on Jun 30, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anyone else thinking they’re not going to read much Mellinger from now on?

"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"

by NHZ on Jun 30, 2009 2:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

from now on?

you guys actually read him prior to this?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jun 30, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i do, but i pick and choose

he does have some inside access and an occasional relevant observation

by benfunke on Jun 30, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Insufferable

I used to check Mellinger pretty faithfully, but after his 15th lecture upon what the fans SHOULD believe/think/do/want I soured pretty quickely. We know enough about baseball to think for ourselves, and we know where to go for actual enlightened baseball thinking and analysis – without being fed the Morgan-esque party line.

I grow tired of his pomposity and self-righteousness. Ball Star long ago left my bookmarks, and will likely soon leave my consciousness. This piece only cements that he isn’t worth reading. If it comes down to him vs. Rany, give me Rany. Always.

"Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football"
- John Heisman

by Maddogmag on Jun 30, 2009 3:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Mellinger the diplomat

He’s already in politics, dude. His very existence is about appeasing the team (so he’ll keep getting opportunities to be ketchup in the hot dog run,) the newspaper (so he can keep making a career out of blogging) and Joe Posnanski (so he can continue ripping off the asterisk-labeled-afterthought concept.)

by LaFLamme on Jun 30, 2009 3:22 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Take from this what you will..

I’m sure Melllinger’s a nice guy but he’s dangerously close to Bob Gretz-in-the-90’s territory. Politics indeed.

That said: My brother and dad were at one of the St Louis games in KC and sat next to (I believe) Hillman’s sister-in-law. Anyway, she said that Trey has mentioned many, many times at home that he has “nothing to work with”. Say what you will about Hillman, he does have a point there.

by thejosephboys on Jun 30, 2009 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

There's a difference between literally having nothing to work with

And trotting out Mike Jacobs to hit 4th or 5th in the lineup against a LHP when you could do some linup reshuffling and give the DH spot to Olivo or Guillen.

Waiting for April.

by DC Royal on Jun 30, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs