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It's Time To Start Asking Some Tough Questions About the Kansas City Royals & Dayton Moore

The play, and the player, that have come to symbolize too much of an era. (AP Photo/Lori Shepler)

More photos » by Lori Shepler - AP

The play, and the player, that have come to symbolize too much of an era. (AP Photo/Lori Shepler)


Did you enjoy the happy times? I hope so, because it looks like they are over.

Looking back at the calendar -- and this is a little bit like trying to isolate a major historical period, such as, say, the Dark Ages -- this humble historian would label The Good Times as beginning roughly on April 18th, when the Royals improved to 7-4 and ending somewhere around May 20th, when the Royals stood at 21-19. Nearly dead in the middle of that epoch was the Greinke SI cover and attendant Posnanski piece, which pushed both Greinke and the Royals onto the radar of middle-aged men across the country. As many of you know, I live in DC, so much of my background noise baseball is Orioles & Nats on TV and a variety of Acela corridor teams on the radio. During the Good Times, I probably heard six or seven different broadcasters praise the Royals in passing, inevitably mentioning how "they won't be going away this season". 

Well, they did go away, and I fear that the historical record will reflect that they did so with astonishing rapidity. The descent from 18-11 to 24-32 has all but buried a team that only needed to play .450 baseball during the slide to remain a perhaps unnecessarily heralded darling. That's how you make your hot start hold up: just being mediocre for a month will barely get noticed in this division. The AL Central this season evokes memories of the first half of this decade, when a generic .500 team would win 88-92 games against weak intra-divisional foes.

I believe it's time to begin reconsidering the Dayton Moore Era in Kansas City. Yes, he took over one of the two or three worst franchises in the game. Moreover, Moore's successes are easy enough to see and indisputable. Overall, the team is better. The minor leagues are better. Payroll is larger.  Still, it must be pointed out that the Royals hired Moore during the 2006 season. Not only has Moore now been around for awhile, he's also made a number of moves, and for that reason the Major League roster has been nearly entirely remade in Moore's image. When DeJesus and Buck are finally traded, the transformation will be that much fuller.

The 2009 Royals are what Dayton Moore wanted. This is a team he's rather meticulously built. Sadly, if you remove Zack Greinke -- a Baird holdover -- from the roster, the Royals are probably one of the worst two or three teams in the American League.

It's time to ask some tough questions.

Star-divide

 

What was the point of hiring Trey Hillman?

Let's start with the least important concern, at least in a pure baseball sense, the Hillman hire. What exactly is Hillman good at? I think that being a baseball manager is one of the weirdest, generally most pointless, jobs in sports. For all the attention it gets, being a baseball manager is probably about as important as being the linebackers coach in football. You don't call plays 99% of the time in a baseball game, and there's so little variation regarding what's acceptable managerial moves, that even the worst guy ever is only going to be marginally worse than the best. All that being said, what was the point of hiring Hillman? By all accounts he's had problems managing the clubhouse from the leader-of-men/motivator perspective and even the laziest observer can glean that his bullpen and lineup management is, at best, ok. It isn't an accident that Joakim Soria has appeared in one one-run or tied game while Jamey Wright has done so seven times.

Obviously, Hillman was a manager that Moore targeted from the earliest days in his tenure, and a year and a half later, it appears to be merely an extremely idiosyncratic way of finding just another generic, probably below average manager.

When Hillman was hired we read a lot about how the new Royals were going to emulate the smallball Angels, with special guidance from Hillman's Japanese experience. The Royals tried to play Treyball for about two weeks in 2008, then wisely abandoned it amidst a flurry of caught stealings. Since then, the team has gotten even slower and less prone to making contact. The Royals aren't a fundamentally strong team either, another early buzzword. Nor was Hillman connected emotionally to any of the Royals key young players, he was just a guy winning games in Japan talking about Jesus a lot. And now he's in Kansas City.

When Hillman was announced as the manager I wrote that the important thing was not so much anything about the man himself, but rather what the move potentially said about Moore's masterplan, his thoughts on strategy and how to build a team, etc. Eighteen months later, do we have a clearer idea or one that we can really feel excited about? Personally, I'm not seeing it. Essentially we've got merely a confused and un-focused traditionalism looking for a target. Speed, steals, smallball, err... power, or something. Hillman's a traditionalist it appears, and even in an especially moribund age strategy-wise, he's certainly not an innovator. Rounding back to Moore, are the Royals going to be able to win with an ultra-traditional approach? Sure, there's the Twins, who are also unfortunately way ahead of the Royals and in their own division.

Can Dayton Moore build an offense?

A typical starting lineup this season features at a bare minimum six offensive players brought in by Dayton Moore, and most games the number is higher than that. Despite heavy investments in both talent and dollars however, the Royal offense has declined each of the last three seasons. This year, the Royals have scored 222 runs, good for 3.96 runs per game. In 2008 they were also bad offensively, but nevertheless managed 691/4.26 per game. In 2007, that figure was 706/4.32 per. From his very first trade -- the Gathright deal -- to the flurry of moves this past off-season, Moore has shown a tendency to value two tools, speed and power, over patience. This obp blindspot, frequently identified prior to the 2008 season, has been particularly damaging.  The amazing thing is that not only has Moore not generally brought in high OBP players, he's actually acquired some of the absolute lowest OBP options possible. It's like deciding not only to not buy your wife a good birthday present, but also deciding to give her a framed picture of you and your hottest ex together.

It isn't just about the lack of walks -- themselves a good thing -- its about the increase in outs. That's all OBP really is, your non-out percentage. Guys like Mike Jacobs, Jose Guillen & Miguel Olivo are out-machines and it continually drags down the offense. Even accounting for the slight decline in run scoring that we've seen the last two seasons, the Royal offense is more expensive and worse than the one they fielded in 2006 or 2007. Where have you gone Emil Brown? Of the five most patient players on the team, exactly one is a product of the Moore regime, Coco Crisp, and he was acquired for his speed and defense. Allard Baird, supposedly one of the worst GMs of the decade, and a man fired nearly three years ago, is still carrying the offense. At the moment the Royals are 13th in the AL in runs, 13th in batting average, 13th in OBP and 11th in slugging. As has been pointed out multiple times the last few weeks, when you factor in both who is over and under-performing, it seems extremely likely that this team is about where it's going to be all season.

On balance, there is really no choice but to say that Moore has shown a singular inability to construct a reliable offense at the Major League level. Although we've heard for two years now through the official channels that the Royals are focused on building their pitching staff and will worry about the offense later, a look at the transaction sheet betrays the lie behind this rationalization. Moore has been "working" with the offense from the very beginning, and he's done the very amazing thing of spending more, yet keeping one of the worst offenses around just as terrible as it ever was.

What's going on with the defense?

The truly amazing thing is that Moore's position-player misfires have not only not worked offensively, they've also torpedoed the Royals's defensive abilities. As such, the Royals are attempting to win with pitching and defense, without the defense. Despite two injuries which arguably improved the team's defensive configurations for long periods (the Guillen and Gordon injuries) after two months the Royals are solidly one of the absolute worst defenses in the game. According to UZR the Royals are 13th, and BP's two primary metrics, defensive efficiency and park-adjusted defensive efficiency (PADE) rank the Royals at 14th and 11th respectively.

As with everything else you've read above, these are not new problems, or one's generated by second-guessing. Everyone pretty much knew that the Royals infield defense was going to be awful this season, and if anything the Royals are a bit lucky that Butler has been better than expected and that Teahen was moved off of second by Gordon's injury. It's hard to give the Royals much credit for Butler being ok at first, considering their long-running bungling of his defensive development. Furthermore, Jose Guillen has been a butcher in right from day one, and he's so terrible that he mitigates much of the good that the Royals generate from playing two CFs in the other two slots. 

Considering the industry-wide turn towards defense this past off-season, and the lack of polished defensively strong top prospects in the system, it's hard to see the Royals fielding a better defense any time soon. The Hoz and Moose are not going to make the defense better when they get up, in fact, they're going to likely make it worse. In turn, the pitching staff has to be that much better, that much deeper, to overcome this hindrance.

The defensive collapse is especially disheartening because you would think that it would be at the very bedrock of an effective old-school approach. Instead, in going after players like Guillen, Moore has done just what all the counter-revolutionaries used to mistakenly mock Billy Beane for doing: building a softball team.

Can Dayton Moore assemble the league's best pitching staff?

Because considering the team's offensive and defensive limitations, that is what it is going to take.

Dayton Moore deserves enormous credit for rebuilding the Kansas City pitching staff. Enormous. Let me do my damndest to give the man credit there. The mid-decade Royals featured a number of historically bad pitching staffs, completely mind-numbingly hideous ensembles that only featured a handful of players that even belonged at the Major League level. Go look at the 2005 and 2006 rosters for a moment, then head back here. It was laughably bad.

Almost overnight, Dayton remade the pitching staff from an achilles heel into the strength of the team, and to this date, his signature moves -- the Meche signing, the Davies trade, the Soria discovery, the Ramirez discovery -- remain pitching moves. Distressingly however, after reaching respectability, the Royals have somewhat stalled.

Runs Allowed Per Game
2006 5.99
2007 4.80
2008 4.82
2009 4.71

 

This year's pitching staff is better than these numbers show, for all the reasons noted above. However, those problems aren't going away easily. Relatedly, this is also where some of Moore's unwise spending is especially painful. With pitching remaining the most expensive asset in the game, can Moore build the game's best staff? A staff so strong that it can overcome a poor offense and a poor defense? Payroll is especially relevant here

The depressing thing, from an odd perspective, is that Moore has already made a number of brilliant moves, and it hasn't been good enough. When you thrown in the fact that he inherited Zack Greinke, you can't help but feel that we're watching a current group that's about as good as it's going to get. It's a Jay Leno group: it is where it is and you can't imagine it taking a leap to another level. Leno's not suddenly going to go back on the standup circuit and kill or be be super funny on his new show. He's going to remain Leno. The variables at present have an essence of a balancing act: Davies falls, Bannister rises again, Hochevar presumably rises, the bullpen takes a step back, and so on.

Moore deserves further credit for amassing a number of highly regarded pitching prospects, most of whom remain in the low minors. Perhaps some of them will pan out, while others will inevitably fail, suffer injury, or be traded for the next RBI man with no actual value. The cycle of baseball life will continue. The current staff as is, however, while being good, is not good enough to carry the Royals into the post-season. Frankly, perhaps no staff in the AL would be.

If not now, when?

So here's the game we play. I think it's reasonable to argue, "well, even if the Royals don't even really come close to winning a pretty bad division in 2009, that doesn't matter because Moore's still relatively new and he's cleaning up a mess". Fair enough. The pickle of it is, can you truly argue that 2010 is going to be the year? At a certain level, we shouldn't care about 2006 anymore. The horror stories about the depths of the bad old Royals are increasingly irrelevant. To be plain, the easy part of the job is getting from awful to medicore. That's not being a genius, that's being competent. I go back to my old days as a composition teacher: I could help a student get from being clueless to being passable, but that doesn't mean I'm anything special or that I could get them from clueless to being a truly great writer.

No, 2006 doesn't matter anymore. 2008 matters, and the Royals of 2009 are barely better than the 2008 team. Can the Royals win in 2010? Offensively, the team's room for growth remains nearly identical to what it's been for the last two years: some breakout potential from Gordon and Butler and a random improvement of your own pet liking. Maybe it's Aviles at short, maybe it's Kila. Maybe it's something more exotic. There are obvious enough problems with nearly all of these hopes, ranging from our tempered expectations about the two saviors to the organization's own stubborn allegiance to lesser options. So the 2010 recipe remains pitching driven: Meche, Greinke, Soria as givens and three good seasons from Hochevar, Davies, Bannister and a wildcard prospect. Maybe more. By and large however, we're watching the 2010 team right now. And sadly, if there's a greater intellectual purpose to following the Royals this season, it would be that, trying to see if there's enough in place to win next year. 2011 and beyond, remains a topic for another day. Looking at the current team, there are very few faces who will still be around in 2011.

In conclusion, I believe that we've entered a new phase in our relationship to Dayton Moore. The first phase was the relatively brief, "let's see" entry-phase. Because the 2007 team improved so clearly, that period was brief. The next phase was one of mostly unencumbered praise and faith. The Major League talent actually stalled or even declined, but there was so much seemingly positive happening at the minor league level that it hardly mattered. I say this as likely one of the least sanguine Moore believers in the Royals blogosphere, but really questioning Moore prior to sometime this last off-season wasn't really intellectually defensible. He'd done too much good.

Unfortunately, that period has also passed. Dayton Moore shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt anymore.

7 recs  |  Comment 72 comments |

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Good post

That’s about all I can say

Cheese… milk's leap toward immortality.

by ratherfantastic on Jun 8, 2009 1:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think you could make some pretty significant changes on this team by the All Star break

that would make the team quite a bit better.

- Trade Jacobs. He has enough value as a platoon masher and a non-scary enough contract that he could bring something in return. I’ve been saying for weeks that Kila needs to be on this team. Everything he brings is an improvement to the team and if DM is serious about plate discipline, there is no better player in the system to show how it’s done than Kila.

- Trade Callaspo. He’s a good hitter but probably won’t ever do again what he did for the first month and a half. More importantly, I’d rate him as a below average defender (current UZR of -6.3) and the Royals really improvement there as Will stresses above. I’d move Aviles there when he’s healthy. I think he’d be above average defensively and when healthy he will hit enough.

- Trade Guillen. Trade for whatever you can get. Pick up his 2009 salary as Rany suggests in his most recent blog. Start Teahen in RF and the Royals actually have a very nice defensive outfield. This assumes Gordon is back and playing third.

- Trade Olivo. Start anyone there. Anyone. Bueller. Anyone! If I have to see another Olivo strikeout with men on base, I think my head will explode.

- Dump Wright. His time is past. Activate Tejeda if he’s ready or bring up Disco Hayes. I don’t think his style of pitching will gain much from AAA.

- Dump TPJ. Do I have to give reasons? I’m not sure who starts here, but I think I’d rather see Luis Hernandez there than TPJ. A trade is an option but not really anything obvious to do here. Maybe Bianchi is ready to make the jump from Single A! (Or not. Would still be better than TPJ.)

There you go. With the team’s solid starting pitching and Soria that’s a .500 team. Can I get hired as the GM now?

by jsolo on Jun 8, 2009 2:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Problem is...

If we trade Jacobs and call up Kila he’ll never see the field (or the DH)! Hillman will plant him on the bench for good (see: Aviles, Mike; Pena, Brayan, et. al)

by XBic on Jun 8, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't That Where

He was originally slotted at the MLB level? I remember the prevailing opinion being his defense would not cut it at SS. Only TPJ’s massive suckage at the plate forced him to SS, where he was a pleasant surprise if not a revelation.

I’d rather see Hernandez at SS than TPJ if just for the fact that he can handle the bat a little and seems to make better contact. He’s also a S, though he sucks from both sides, and he doesn’t swing out from under his helmet . He has more traditional no-hit SS deficiencies at the plate.

I’d have no problem seeing a 1B/DH rotation of Kila and Billy, and with Bloomers back on the bench where he belongs we could even afford to add Shealy to that mix.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jun 8, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Problem with that

None of these other teams in the bigs will want our players. Guillen has too much baggage, Wright sucks, Callaspo has no value, olivo cannot hit and is a below average catcher at best and I won’t even address TPJ. Jacobs is the only one there with any value. Maybe we can package some players but I seriously doubt it. Since we suck so bad now, why not bring up some of these highly touted draft picks and let them take a crack at it. It would definately be better than watching these role players stink up the joint. Right now I am up for anything!

gobigred4ever

by gobigred4ever on Jun 12, 2009 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"but really questioning Moore prior to sometime this last off-season wasn't really intellectually defensible. He'd done too much good."

I call shenanigans on that.

Not even in August when the limitations of this team became very apparent?

By the end of 2008, I know I’d seen more than enough at the MLB level. I don’t think his draft picks will get here fast enough to save him though. If this team doesn’t sniff contention next year, I expect someone new to make the moves that lead to 2011.

by AxDxMx on Jun 8, 2009 2:18 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

yea...

like I said, I am probably one of the more skeptical guys

I was annoyed by last august, but I guess the thinking was, this team should be bad because its not really supposed to be competing… then we had this last off-season, which was full of dumb moves, and a seeming “win now” mentality

by royalsreview on Jun 8, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no doubt

there’s a lot of truth there

by royalsreview on Jun 8, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If only we had hired someone from the Indians front office

And instead of collecting failed ex-Braves, we collected failed ex-Indians. We’d have Ryan Ludwick, Brandon Phillips, Jeremy Guthrie, Russ Branyan, Brian Tallet, Ramon Vazquez, John McDonald

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 8, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awesome!

Great post! Why would anyone want to stock pile mediocre vets that probably would be on the bench on other teams. Is this a formula for winning? Are we saving up for something big? We continue to make bonehead moves and I just cannot figure out why.

gobigred4ever

by gobigred4ever on Jun 12, 2009 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you mean we aren't in first place?!?!?!?!?!

fuck…

where return of tpj is a cause of celebration happens!

by blue bandwagon on Jun 8, 2009 2:41 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

tick tock, tick tock goes the clock mr. moore

read the star today, he (dayton) was pouring out some junk about how the major league roster right now is good enough to compete

and all i could think was, what kool-aid pitcher are you pouring that drank out of, and do you really expect us to drink it? we wasted a career year from aviles and soria last year, because the rest of the team was a pile of garbage, now we’re wasting a career year from greinke because the rest of the team is a pile of garbage, and instead of culling the garbage he’s only thrown more garbage onto the pre existing pile

so now we have this massive pile of garbage, with some legitimately good players mixed in, but buried under the likes of tony pena junior, jose guillen, mike jacobs, miguel olivo, luis hernandez, dare i say even coco crisp. making this more painful is the abundance of ‘too valuable to be garbage, but not valuable enough to be exceptional players’ (IE teahen, dejesus, gordon, butler, callaspo) littering the major league roster, creating a lethal vortex of garbage mixed with present mediocrity and the promises of potential

but what will we replace the garbage with? most of it has been added voluntarily, making it an even worse kind of garbage, a kind seen valuable in the eyes of our very own front office. add into the mix the “maestro of the shit symphony,” trey hillman-san, and you have the guarantee of seeing the 9 worst players on the roster start every single game. i feel as if we rid ourselves of allard baird, horrific evaluator of pitching talent, and added dayton moore, terrific evaluator of pitching talent, completely ignorant on how to build a major league offense / defense

obviously, he has had constraints which he must work within, but few, if any of his offense additions have been worth damn by any metric other than the GRIT factor, which unfortunately is impossible to translate out of Japanese.

and so, the garbage heap grows more putrid every time it is rolled out to rot under the sun in the dog days of summer, while we watch, wait, and hope for the baseball Jesus to deliver us from this evil place

realistically speaking

by slayor on Jun 8, 2009 5:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not Gordon

I would not include Gordon in that garbage pile just yet. The jury is still out on him.

gobigred4ever

by gobigred4ever on Jun 12, 2009 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good thoughts, well said. But...

I think it’s a bit premature to judge this 2009 version of the Royals by how they’ve been playing the past four weeks. Not as good as they showed the first month, not as bad as they are playing now. But the criticisms of Moore are legit and where we go from here is key.

by Steve Hovley on Jun 8, 2009 8:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

But the Royals are this good

I think April was a huge month for the Royals because no one does well offensively in that month. It’s cold, balls don’t go as far, etc. The Royals took advantage of that and went 18-11. As soon as the weather got warmer, they died. This is the team, and it’s not getting any better.

by AxDxMx on Jun 8, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Solution

The renovations should have included a giant freezer to wrap around the K.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 8, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does 2010 need to be "the year"?
So here’s the game we play. I think it’s reasonable to argue, “well, even if the Royals don’t even really come close to winning a pretty bad division in 2009, that doesn’t matter because Moore’s still relatively new and he’s cleaning up a mess”. Fair enough. The pickle of it is, can you truly argue that 2010 is going to be the year?

I don’t think that winning the division is the only relevant benchmark of success for this team at this stage. Let’s say that the Royals get up to around a .500 record for 2009 (which is what most of us thought they’d be). Can one truly argue that the 2010 team shouldn’t be better? Another year of development of Butler, Gordon and Hochevar alone should bring that. I wish the rebuilding process would have gone more quickly than it has, but if the Royals get to 79 wins this year and 84 wins next year, I’ll be happy. And then they would be on pace to perhaps win the division in 2011.

And no Dayton Moore doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore. He hasn’t really deserved it for a while.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Jun 8, 2009 9:21 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hillman's a traditionalist it appears, and even in an especially moribund age strategy-wise, he's certainly not an innovator

What’s odd is the reason I advocated for Hillman early on before he was even known as a candidate was because of interviews I read where he talked about playing for the big inning, drawing walks, and doing innovative things. He still talks about these things, but he never seems to implement them. He seems to be all talk.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 8, 2009 9:33 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hillman's offensive philosophy

What I recall from his statements before and after being hired was that a manager needs to manage to a team’s offensive strengths. He said that if you have a power hitting team, then you should sit back and wait for the big inning. But if you don’t have that kind of team, then you need to “diversify the offense” get runners moving on the basepaths and use small ball to manufacture runs. Since the Royals don’t have a good power hitting team (or a good hitting team at all), he’s been using the hit-and-run, sacrificing runners over, etc. (despite the fact that these tactics rob the team of runs). Unfortunately, I think his actions as a Royals manager are consistent with his statements before being hired.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Jun 8, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rough, but warranted

I think one of his problems has been that he has gone after the safe move and has not gotten the lucky/risky move that can make a difference. Examples: He has gone after Bloomquist, Guillen, Hunter, Furcal, Hudson, Olivo, and Jacobs. All of those guys are known products. The best of them got away (Hunter, Furcal, Hudson) but the guys he has brought in are performing about how he/we thought they would. On the other hand, a big piece in the Rays turn around has been Pena, who has turned into a masher and was a somewhat lucky pick up.

Also, injuries have really hurt the Royals this season. Remember last year. Sucked sans Aviles, over-.500 with him. Have you guys seen Aviles in the lineup lately??

by Chyladin on Jun 8, 2009 10:03 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree

I think of lot of the really good small market GMs work a lot more trades for high upside young players than DM does. The only young hitters he has acquired in trades have been Gathright – whose upside was pretty limited, and Callaspo. I’ll give him credit for the Dan Cortes trade, and the Odalis Perez trade, but he really needs to make many more of those kinds of deals. I’ll give him that he doesn’t have a ton of talent to work with, but he should really be trying as hard as he can to deal mediocre, but useful players like Teahen, Jacobs, and even my favorite, David DeJesus. Heck, he should at least listen to offers for Joakim Soria.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 8, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Moore's offensive philosophy

I think the problem is that he’s not sure exactly what he wants.

He started out picking up players to improve the defense, and I suppose to get small ball going — Gathright, TPJ, Gload.

He then realized that a lineup made up of all defense, no offense players leads to a terrible lineup. Then he switched to all-SLG players; without defense and OBP as prerequisites: Jacobs, Guillen, Olivo, replacing Grudz with Teahen/Callapso.

So he’s gone the all-defense route, the all-SLG route, the only route left is the all-BA/OBP route. I hope he chooses that path this offseason.

by Top Ramen on Jun 8, 2009 10:31 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think his first thought was flawed

Its that Gathright, TPJ and Gload weren’t really great defenders like he thought they would be.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 8, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he knows what he wants, he just wants the wrong things.

I think he has strong convictions about how to build a line-up, but those convictions are misguided.

He thinks that speed is very important at the top of the line-up, even if that means bringing in a guy like The Car Jumper who has no other skills. Coco at least plays good defense, but I don’t think bringing in a faster CF should have been a priorty this offseason.

He also thinks power is very important in the middle of the line-up, even if that means bringing in guys like Jacobs and Guillen that have no other skills. Those guys should hit 20+ HRs every year, and that was apparently the end of DM’s analysis.

Combined with Chyladin’s point that DM seems to prefer name guys, and I think we’re going to get lots of older, overpaid, one-skill guys. We’re going to get another Jacobs before Kila gets a shot. I don’t care if DM is a stathead, but one value of advanced stats is that they give a good overall assessment of players. For example, they show that Guillen’s terrible defense outweighs the benefits of his power. DM should be able to figure that out by now, with or without figuring out what wOBA is.

by hippdoghipp on Jun 8, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speed

What is interesting is that the Braves, during all those years of success, never really had many burners at the top of their lineup. They inherited Otis Nixon, a vagebond speedster who no one really wanted. They developed Rafael Furcal. Aside from those two, the only other Brave who stole more than 30 bases since they began their run was Ron Gant, who had other obvious skills (power!)

Andruw Jones was speedy back in his day, but he was signed for his power. They traded for Marquis Grissom and Kenny Lofton, both were not really top base stealers anymore by the time they were acquired. So I’m not really sure where Dayton got this idea that speed is so important.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 8, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LIke the post

but lets see.
Yes GMDM has made some mistakes but he has basically made two offensive moves:
Getting Jose Guillen and Mike Jacobs- both of those moves were mistakes yes but again the system was so bare what is a GM to do?

AAA/MLB has a record of 16-43 for the last month. That lack of talent at the upper levels is not GMDM’s fault. Nearly all of his trade pieces the last three seasons have all been bullpen arms which are far from the greatest commodity in baseball. I’m not saying he is mistake free that is obvious but he hasn’t had much to work with.

I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.

by kcscoliny on Jun 8, 2009 11:33 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

both of those moves were mistakes yes but again the system was so bare what is a GM to do?

I’m kinda tired of that excuse. Dayton is not the first GM to walk into a situation where the system was bare. And it wasn’t THAT bare. He had some chips to work with. Mark Teahen, Mark Grudzielanek, David DeJesus, Justin Huber all had some value. I mean, the man did get two decent arms for Elmer freakin Dessens.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 8, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And even though he knew the system was bare

he chose to go with high-school hitters at the top of the draft, rather than near MLB ready college guys like Wieters/Smoak.

by Top Ramen on Jun 8, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

it actually shows some serious nerve of Moore to think he has THAT much job security he can draft players that are 3-4 years away from even sniffing the Majors. He blew the first draft pick in 2006 and has had 2nd/3rd overally picks in the following drafts.

The guy was given a blank check for the most part. Relievers that are all having great years: Nunez, Ram Ram, Dotel and JP Howell were jettissoned by him. Even Todd Wellemyere is pitching well for the Cardinals.

When you add in aforementioned scrubs like Olivo, T Pena, Gload, Bloomquist, Jacobs, Coco, Tomko, Yabuta, Wright and players like Carlos Silva/Tor Hunter he attempted to blow 100 million + on, he hasn’t done anything with a golden opportunity

by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 8, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

again the system was so bare what is a GM to do?

Do what other successful GMs in similar situations have done — ignore the costly veterans, trade the ones you have, play the younger players to see what you have, and pick up as much free talent as you can.

by Gopherballs on Jun 8, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i dunno, I'll have to look

RR’s suggestion below is pretty good

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 8, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

here we go

right here, part of our excitment over new Royals Masher Mike Jacobs, who’s still 3 runs more valuable than Leo Nunez so far this season.

RR:

A) he sorta looks like a lapsed Mike Sweeney
B) the evil look on his face as he’s watching her drink
C) the girl’s somewhat scared (or wasted) look on her face
D) the position of his hand
no milk and cookies for Russ

He looks absolutely massive. I don’t mean either cut or fat, he just really fills up the frame.

I assume he is in a pretty typical late-night situation for ballplayers here

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 5, 2008 11:46 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
thats what she said

by royalsreview on Dec 5, 2008 11:47 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs
without a doubt

OMG Banny. FWIW I am only crdtng u w/3 runs allwd bc of DDJ OMFG

by devil_fingers on Dec 5, 2008 11:47 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs

“Here, drink this . . .

now let me see . . . okay, one more."

by Gopherballs on Dec 5, 2008 11:58 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions 0 recs

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 8, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

creepiest picture ever

devil version of mike sweeney making some young lady drink his poison

by royalsreview on Jun 8, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ifyou think about it

Branyan is sort of a bizarro Sweeney. NEver really got a chance to play for various reasons early on. Constantly got hurt before he had a chanace to get a decent contract. Bounced around to multiple teams. Never a good contact guy. Then, in his 30s, signs a cheap contract because he’s undervalued and really explodes.

Oh, he’s left-handed, too.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 8, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

who is this guy?

that girl looks pretty hot too…pretty slutty

by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 9, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Russell "The Muscle" Branyan

And how dare you impugn the morals of a baseball groupie!

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 9, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Others also said to sign

Jason Giambi. He hasn’t produced that well either. Jacobs was a mistake as was Guillen but please gut DDJ, Teahen, Huber(What value ?) then what would’ve you wanted the last couple years because those guys were never worth ML level talent. Prospects are nice but hardly secure options.

All he can really do is keep drafting and signing internationally

I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.

by kcscoliny on Jun 8, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In a shocking develpment, I almost completely agree

One minor correction: no credible commentator except maybe Rany Jazayerli thinks’/thought that Teahen is a superior 3B to Alex Gordon.

If the disastrous Guillen contract was a too-close-for-comfort warning shot over the bow, the Jacobs acquisition was a torpedo into the side. As I said at the time, the Jacobs trade wasn’t necessarily bad because he’s a bad pro baseball player (although he is), but because of what it says about Moore’s inability to value players properly. I won’t repeat it all now: he simply doesn’t get it. Jacobs, Guillen, and Olivo sum it up quite well. Moore’s like your typical very basic baseball fan when it comes to offense — he sees the superficial things — occasional power, and maybe a guy with a good arm. Heck, walks don’t get his attention, nor the ability to field a grounder, lazy flyball that doesn’t come near the glove, or the pitch going to the backstop.

At least Olivo shut down the running game of the Flying Jays.

Moore did have a choice: not to blow his budget. Don’t worry, he’ll find those WMDs yet.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 8, 2009 11:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Trading Jacobs needs to happen

He has to go. Yeah he hits some homeruns, but he mostly hits meaningless ones. He can’t hit in clutch situations, he can’t hit lefties, and he struggles with breaking balls from right handers. He needs to be traded and Kila needs to be up here. They should offer up Jacobs for a starter like Doug Davis. He’s a good pitcher and he’s a lefty which they seem to want.

Pena has to go. If they trade Jacobs for a starter, then they should DFA Pena for Kila.

Send either Bannister or Davies down or trade one of them.

Trade Olivo for anything you can get. Yeah he’s Greinke’s personal catcher, but i think Greinke is good enough that it wouldn’t matter who is catching him. Brayan Pena deserves a chance to play more. But, one thing Moore needs to look for in a trade is a catcher that can step in and start next season.

Bloomquist needs to start at short for now, maybe even permanently. I’d be fine with Aviles moving to 2nd but i wouldn’t trade Callaspo. Having a switch hitter who makes consistent contact no the bench would be pretty valuable.

One last thing is that they should try to package DeJesus and some minor league pitchers to try to land a right handed hitting left fielder with some power. Josh Willingham, Matt Murton, Jeff Francouer, Austin Kearns, Marlon Byrd, Cody Ross, maybe even Bill Hall (i think he played outfield for a few years).

by ryancrist1986 on Jun 8, 2009 12:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

DJ has more value than all those guys

I’m not opposed to picking up a RH power bat, but dealing DJ for one of those guys makes your team worse, not better.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 8, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yup

and, by the way, one good week with the glove and DDJ is now as valuable as Jacobs, Bloomquist, and Callaspo.

His bat will follow soon. Thank you Allard.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 8, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sadly, I'm afraid

we’re going to be seeing Kila mash for some other team (a la Twins fans w/ David Ortiz) in the not so distant future.

by XBic on Jun 8, 2009 12:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Kila for Franceour

Make it happen Dayton!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 8, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's probably already tried

Frank Wren is too “smart” to fall for that

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by devil_fingers on Jun 8, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone on this board is right

Jacobs and Guillen have to go…I’d rather see a lineup with very little power that can get on base than watch those two strikout, fly out and ground into double plays the majority of their plate appearances. Guillen was walking at a great rate and than realized that’s not who he is.
Coco can’t hit for shit either, but atleast he has a decent track record and play good defense in CF(with a girls arm) and can steal bases, but I’d rather see him bat 9th than leadoff.

The problem is Moore would be admitting he really fucked up by trading/releasing any of them. So as much as we want to see Kila in the majors it just won’t happen. Im hoping he gives Kila a shot at the end of the year/next year and godforbid doesn’t trade him

by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 8, 2009 12:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It would have been interesting

If he had put together a team of ballhawks that had some OBA skills, but absolutely no power. That would probably be more interesting than this bunch of out-makers and defensive butchers.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 8, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't answer your questions

But what I want to see happen (and it NEVER will) is a bold, honest, forthright apology from the owner, David Glass. Look, Moore hasn’t been anything other than average at his job – some good moves, some bad. Sometimes players regress and your vision fails and you have to make substantial changes, etc.

The problem, as I see is is the GD farm system is STILL so UTTERLY AND FANTASTICALLY BEREFT of tangible assets. Yes, the organization has recognized it’s sinful ways of the past and has begun to invest wisely in drafting and producing it’s own players – but because the new regime favors drafting HS talent, for the most part, the farm system is still SEVERAL YEARS away from being fully functional. Without that in place, there isn’t a GD thing Moore can do to correct the things that have gone wrong on the ML level.

I want Glass to come out and say: “I totally screwed up the business plan for this operation since 1994, failing to realize how baseball has to work in a small market to succeed. Because of that, I fully expect it to take several more years to fix the damage that I ALONE caused by my short sightedness. While I rightly should not expect your patience or forgiveness, I vow that I will return this organization to it’s former greatness, or failing that, will SELL the team to someone with the wherewithall to do so.”

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Jun 8, 2009 1:54 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Magic 8 balls says

“outlook not so good”

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Jun 8, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He should just come out and say

Yeah, I’ve been a cheap skate the past 10 years, decided to spend some money, but hired some guy name Moron who has fucked up my organization…

I thought the guy I hired had a brain

Guillen
Jacobs
Tomko
Yabuta
Nomo
Horam
J Wright
Gathright
Pena jr
Gload
Olivo

Go Royals!

by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 8, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it possible that there's a conspiracy theory at work?

Dayton Moore is an Atlanta Braves plant that funnels good players to the Braves and will someday become the next GM there? Yes, I know it’s crazy. Stop looking at me that way.

by Uscbalto on Jun 8, 2009 3:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What talent has DM given to the Braves?

Most of it has been him acquiring the Braves leftovers

If all else fails, stop using all else

by ksuroyals on Jun 8, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Erik Cordier will one day win the Cy Young

Provided he is ever healthy enough to pitch more than 50 innings.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 8, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This was a great post

and the timing is excellent. Also thank you to loyal2sdad for bringing up Glass. He is pocketing money hand over fist and still crying poor. By some accounts, the Royal’s get more money from the league than they spend on payroll. At least he has started to spend some money in player development, but, while that is good, the fruits of that change are years away. The Royal’s should not throw money away, but should be opening up the pocketbook for the right players.

As far as Moore goes, his words and actions do not go together at all. He talks about OBP, but acts as though he does not know it exists. He speaks of money limitations, then throws money at HoRam and Farnsworth. He brings in Jacobs, which squashes two guys with inexpensive potential in the process-just about the only two we had.

He hires Seitzer to preach plate discipline, and then says “wave your magic wand and make the hackers disappear”. The result is almost worse. The hackers are somewhat trying to be patient, but the result is passivity early in the at bat. The first month, it worked a little, but then the scouts saw the passivity and now they are always behind in the count. The pressure mounts, and the hackers start swinging, because it is their nature. Of course, being behind in the count, they are swinging at pitcher’s pitches, and they are not good enough to hit those.

There are some things that a small market GM needs to understand. Dayton has made small beginning steps in one of those: Pitching and Power is expensive and you have to draft and develop it. He has made an effort to shore up the development, whether or not he is successful is to be determined. One he does not seem to get: You CANNOT waste money (particularly early in the off season) by overpaying replacement players. Buying (or trading for) middling power with no peripherals, trading away an excellent inexpensive bullpen, and then panicking and overpaying for mediocrity in the bullpen, etc.

But the biggest thing that he needs to understand that he does not seem to be aware of: There are only 2 things that are undervalued that you can help your team with through trades and free agency- without breaking the bank. 1) GUYS WHO WALK!!!!!! The Royals have alot of role player types, but a role player type who does not walk is (as RR mentioned) an out machine. Add walks to the mix and he is a scrappy role player. (Dear Dayton, BB= Grit). 2) GUYS WHO CAN FIELD!!!!!! A good fielder is the most undervalued player in the game monetarily. Sure, you don’t bench a star because he is not a good fielder, but guess what? We don’t have any. There are guys that are in the same realm offensively as our guys, no more expensive, BUT THEY CAN FIELD.

You could probably replace our entire lineup with guys who can take a walk and field their position for the same amount of money. Would we be great? Probably not. But we would not go 6-21 either.

Is it safe?

by KHAZAD on Jun 8, 2009 4:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

good post

i have been saying this for some time however, that the roster still needs major work before we become competitive. i’m not ready to throw in the towel on DM just yet, i think that we underestimated the enormity of the task he was facing. i will say, however that we need to take some steps to get some talent in the upper levels of the minor leagues and the major league roster.

to me, this season is/was about the development of gordon, butler, hochevar, and davies. so far, we’ve got one incomplete (Gordon), a solid B (Butler), a D (Hochevar), and a C (Davies). we’ll see what happens the rest of the year with these four players.

however, to me, these are the things that have got to happen the rest of this year and in the offseason to start making some real progress:

get out from under guillen’s contract, in order to give us payroll flexibility;

trade jacobs and see what we’ve got in kila kaaihue;

trade meche for some significant prospects;

have a great draft where we are once again aggressive in signing talent;

sign or trade for a legitimate SS and power-hitting COF.

I hereby resign from this post.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jun 9, 2009 12:25 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

They said it perfectly and simply tonight on RanyontheRadio

They could’ve paid 24M for Ibanez since ’04 or played Matt Diaz in RF as opposed to the Juan Gonzalez, Reggie Sanders or JoGui replacements. Simply the RF decisions by Baird and GMDM have been a comedy of errors and whiffs.

I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.

by kcscoliny on Jun 9, 2009 1:07 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He would have signed a three year deal

He wanted a 3 year deal, the Royals would only go two years.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jun 9, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

everybody keeps bringing up ibanez

but that was the old regime. really it’s pointless to even bring that up. sure, guillen has turned out to be a mistake.

I hereby resign from this post.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jun 9, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

your nuts to say this years rotation is better then years past, the number is only lower because of Grienke’s stellar pitching so far, and that to has been in steady decline as hitters are finally adjusting with the pitcher. case in point his start again the blue jays. Toronto has been struggling recently with the bats and exploded on Zack, any fan that thought he couldve kept up with that ERA is a moron. Its the AMERICAN LEAGUE, maybe in the NL he couldve with pitchers batting but the pussy league i mean AL has the DH and is geared towards nothing but offense sanz"yankee stadium(the new wiffle ball stadium)" so your 2009 team ERA is actually worse if you adjust Grienke’s numbers to his career ERA

Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat

by DESTROYER on Jun 9, 2009 10:41 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

True and Dayton Moron depleted our bullpen as well

There is still hope for Davies, but he’s a HR giving up machine. Hochevar’s start was encouraging but he’s inconsistent as hell. Bannister looks just like the pitcher from last year: great start, and then a huge letdown.

by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 9, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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