Media-Meta Royals Links - Gil Meche Honors Mike Aviles in a Special Way Edition
by Freneau on Jul 1, 2009 10:56 PM EDT
in Kansas City Royals News
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Print- Don't worry about the dead arm concerns or the pitch count, suggests Dutton's game story. Everything will be fine, he's "quelled concerns" and is back to his "old self". As a bonus, there's also a nice number of quotes from St. Willie about the offense's struggles.
- Bad, bad, bad offense | Mellinger's Blog on the Royals and Baseball (TPJ content)
- A commenter on Mellinger's blog calls out the KC Media: Trey, one more time | Mellinger's Blog on the Royals
- Oh, and what a coincidence. Here's a long Poz/JoePo post talking about how the offense has declined the last three seasons (funny, I've heard someone else say something about that FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS) only Poz concludes by just saying, "well isn't that funny" or something to that effect. Well, and he also says how smart Dayton Moore is about six times. The quote below might be one of the most cowardly things I've ever read, and I'm someone who reads a pretty wimpy reading list:
The Royals execs are smart people. But the more they do to this offense, the worse this offense gets. The more they hope for things to work out, the less likely it seems that things DO work out. It’s a quirk of baseball — a quirk of sports.
Yes, yes, it's just a funny little quirk.
Many more links, including the always relevant Braves/Frenchy updates after the jump:
- Two Simple Questions To Determine the Royals' Summer - Royals Authority
- 2007 Draft Class (Rounds 16-25) | Kings of Kauffman | A Kansas City Royals Blog
- From the Booth with Steve Stewart: INTERLEAGUE CHRONICLES: THE FINAL FRONTIER
- The Royal Tower: Interesting Day 2 and 3 Draft Picks
- Prospect Retro: Brian Bannister - Minor League Ball
- Royal Reflections: Another Tough Loss
- Report: Marlins Looking for Relief Help - MLB Daily Dish
- Braves prospect Freddie Freeman getting noticed - Talking Chop
- Talking Chop advocates cutting Francoeur: Jeff Francoeur and the extra base hit - Talking Chop
- YouTube - Come On Nature
- Did the Giants Make a $10 Million Mistake With Tim Lincecum? - MLB Daily Dish
- Should Tigers worry about Verlander? - SweetSpot by Rob Neyer - ESPN
- Gentility Takes a Holiday - WSJ.com
- The Pirates have collectively gone insane: Is Jack Wilson Paying Attention? - Bucs Dugout
- This Week in Tigers Baseball Roundtable - Bless You Boys
- Twinkie Town History: July 1 - Twinkie Town
- Les Vins du Tour - Podium Cafe
- Why the Mets Failed to Acquire Mark DeRosa - MLB Daily Dish
- VEB isn't happy with Cardinals coverage: Look... We Need to Talk - Viva El Birdos
- Rock M Roundtable! - Rock M Nation
- ShysterBall - Why I can't Stand Tony La Russa
- TheStar.com | Insight | Why Richard Florida's honeymoon is over
- Does Cito Gaston Work for Boston? | FanGraphs Baseball
- Tuesday Discussion: You're the GM! Baltimore Orioles - Minor League Ball
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Comments
Cowardly?
How about just a little perspective, eh? If you want “bravery” in a sportswriter, go read Bill Plaschke. He’ll call out a GM for you.
what was the perspective?
it just ended with the “aww shucks, ain’t life funny” sentiment
it was anti-perspective
you know, I actually understand your comment now
MY comment needs perspective
I get what you are saying
o/c cowardly is too strong a word at some level, but within the realm of the purpose of Joe’s site/vocation, it applies
plus lets not forget,
that Joe is just too damn nice to be mean. And Im fine with that, instead of Posnanski turning into a dick, I would much rather have a compliment to him, a Siskel to his Ebert, a Jekyll to his Hyde (or would it be a Hyde to his Jekyll), anyway you get the idea.
My theory is, that if we were winning, Joe would go back to being the writer everyone loved, because nothing would go wrong.
Nothing from Nothing leads to... Your 2009 Kansas City Royals
by averagegatsby on Jul 2, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Prior to the portion you quoted the article reviews the offensive moves that have been made and points out that every single one of them that was executed with intent has been a failure, and the only one that can be counted as a major success (Aviles last year) was an accident. It’s methodical and it’s damning. It’s an indictment of incompetence.
The last paragraph doesn’t say why or how all this has happened. It repeats that the Royals execs are smart and muses that sometimes, darn the quirkiness of it all, things don’t work out. But is that intended to wrap up the discussion and let Moore off the hook? I don’t think so. I think it’s intended to beg the question: was all this just a quirk, an accident? With the evidence of the prior thirty-odd paragraphs just laid out, no, it can’t be. And yes, Posnanski reaffirms that Moore is smart, but is he competent? — that question is left wide open.
Another essential point of context, left unsaid here, but familiar from Posnanski’s earlier writing about the Royals: Baird was smart too.
So, go back and read it again. I think Posnanski doesn’t drop the hammer in that last paragraph because he’s already fired the artillery. Moore and company are not left standing.
by 2X2L on Jul 2, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed,
I think this is Posnanski’s way of getting after the management. So he doesn’t come out and pull a Mariotti by hitting us over the head with everything.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
I agree
if you read the columns below… Posnanski has pretty clearly been done with Hillman at least since the “baseball question” fiasco (if Trey treats one of the most respected sportswriters in America like that, imagine how he treats guys like Robinson Tej/eda/ada Tug Hulett), and I think we’ll look back on the “We have to increase our OBP” interview followed by the Mike Jacobs trade as the beginning of his final disilllusionment with Dayton Moore.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 2, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm kinda of glad our media is not "calling guys out"
Those types tend to be too knee-jerk reactive. I think JoPo is doing fine.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Yes. Those guys get loud to get noticed.
Poz stays meek to prevent clouding of the issue. He “likes and respects these guys,” so it’s not name calling. They’re just bad at what they do. Not sure it could be more damning than that.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 2, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
yup
I should calm down on my ripping of Dayton, Mellinger, etc. I sure as hell don’t want to make it on JoPo’s “Not one of my favorite people” list.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 2, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
and...poz's newest post pretty much calls
treydaddy insane or criminally negligent for leaving meche in too long. Where was this discussion going?
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 2, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope Nolan Ryan doesn't read it
Gil needed to control the game!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 2, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah he said he wasn't talking about pitch counts,
but he was clearly talking pitch counts. I feel he could have pointed out that Gil was STRUGGLING + pitch count + dead arm/back stiffness/nearly missed a start.
Remember how Poz waited to drop the hammer on Herm (maybe Carl)? And people said he usually waits to annihilate someone until they’re going to be fired? Perhaps we have some foreshadowing.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 2, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I feel he could have pointed out that Gil was STRUGGLING + pitch count + dead arm/back stiffness/nearly missed a start.
All pointed out prior to his recounting of yesterday’s game. He didn’t bundle all that up into a sound bite, but he covered it thoroughly.
You're right.
I just thought a soundbite would defeat the “pitch counts are relied on too heavily” crowd.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 2, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, point taken. Pitch counts often become the point of focus even when they’re only intended as supporting data for the discussion. I think Poz made an effort to quell that, but he did it early in the article, referencing his and James’ stuff about them, and then later he hammered on the rising pitch count as a stand-in for risk.
JoPo money quotes from the new entry on Meche’s protracted appearance:
every so often I see something that seems so blindingly stupid that, in all honestly, I find myself wondering if I’m wrong about all that, wondering if it is possible that, yes, the people who make sports decisions can simply lose their bleepin’ minds.
We are in such la-la land here, there can be no logical questions … these are like "How would you wash a unicorn?" questions.
I think the charge of bloggardly cowardice requires a retraction. Will?
yeah, for real...
retract your comment… I was gonna say that before reading the money quotes above, but now… i almost have to think you’ll be forced to retract your comments
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Jul 2, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I see no need to retract anything
this is a totally different post, and it doesn’t change the contents of the one from earlier this week
I guess this is possible
but I don’t see it
maybe it is my failure as a reader, or maybe it is his failure as a quasi-satirist
random saccharine musings about life is a topic he’s fond of, so I just don’t see the ironic intent here
Irony? The article on the whole is straight-up scathing criticism. No irony required, nor (I think) intended.
It’s a litany of suck for 30-odd paragraphs, he doesn’t sugar-coat any of it. Saying that it was all well-meant by intelligent people is actually more damning than not.
You want what at the end? An invitation to throw rotten fruit?
like I said
An ironic/satiric take could have been much better delivered, considering the writer and his style.
Read the comments on his site, very few people “got it”. I’ve tried to be satirical before and had the same response, and usually it means you didn’t do a good enough job as a writer.
But the device he’s using isn’t irony or satire. For once, Neyer got it: it’s just a brown-paper wrapper for a diatribe. Poz starts out by saying he’s not talking about the Royals, he’s talking about unexpected consequences. Then he exposes the futility of the Royals’ roster decisions over the course of a zillion words. Then he says, yeah, those unexpected consequences sure are funny sometimes.
Yes, the wrapper obscures the contents. Why would he want to do that? Don’t know, he might have felt more comfortable if he left himself some deniability: geez, Dayton, I wasn’t criticizing the Royals on my blog, I just musing about cosmic stuff. But I’m going to guess that he wrote the first and last paragraphs last. Is it the kind of piece you’d respect without those?
fair enough...
depending on how slow the day is, I may post a little note about this
I can see what you are saying, but I just don’t see it, if that makes sense
Sure. As they say, reasonable people can disagree.
Another possible motivation to blunt the whole thing: he knows his blog is widely read. (HostMonster told him, if he didn’t know it already.) Maybe he thinks that without a little misdirection too many people are going to jump to the conclusion that he’s calling for or about to call for Moore’s ouster, and that’s not an impression he wants to leave. He just wants to point out how badly things have gone to date, and he knows he can’t do that, not without a little subterfuge, unless he’s willing to invite (let’s agree to call them) “unexpected consequences”.
And with the organizations’ response to Rany’s article about the injury record, I think we can speculate on additional motivations for couching one’s criticism.
Is it cowardly to do this? No, I don’t think so, not if the criticism is effective in full force to the reader who detects and disregards the obscuring device.
he said it was a quirk of sports - a quirk of life
I don’t need an invitation to throw fruit, but I do need something that actually has meaning, even sarcastic meaning
The Quirk is not Jamie?
But seriously, seems like the harder they try to fix these “quirks” the further down they go. Maybe he should call it quicksand?
Holy crap
Trey looks just like Tony Muser with that mustache
Still suffering from the greatest robbery of all time: The stealing of the 1994 AL Central title from the Royals
What baffles me is how a bunch of "non-baseball" observers can point out the obvious flaws to this very flawed team and organization
How many people who don’t work for the Royals realize that it’s absurd that Kila is in Omaha while Jacobs/Guillen continue to waste at bats?
How many people think it’s completely ludicrous that TPJ, Luis Hernandez, Tug, and Bloomquist are all on the roster while maybe Willie would be the only one to be on any other major league roster? (I understand they need to have one of these guys start because of what happened to Aviles and because it’s admittedly early to call up a guy like Bianchi. I could live with Luis Hernandez starting and Bloomy as a super sub, but having TPJ on the roster is embarrassing to the entire organization.)
Hayes and Kila need to be on this roster immediately. With a few more decent performances, Rosa should be up as well.
I love Banny – he’s one of my favorite players – but I think he is prime trade material. I also think with Olivo’s recent power surge, he would be a desirable piece to some contending team. Teahen and Dejesus could go. Guillen should be put on DL and kept there as long as possible. Jacobs could be traded for something I imagine.
Does DM really think he can “win now” with this team? The saddest part is that we all realize that the team will actually be BETTER if he dumps most of the high priced “talent” on clogging the base paths.
Ugh, I’m rambling but for the first time this season I’m just flat pissed off at this debacle of a season.
by jsolo on Jul 1, 2009 11:32 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Tug is the only one the Royals should be using, actually
Willie is a waste of time at 31 — he’s have a “Gload in 2007 career year.” Tug might actually be useful as a stopgap/platoon guy.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 1, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I'd rather have Tug than Bloomy
But was just going with the premise that Bloomy isn’t TPJ/Luis Hernandez awful and is making over $1m while Tug has options remaining.
as mellinger wrote today
TPJ just can’t be on the roster along with Luis, it just doesn’t make any sense
the problem with Tug is that
Trey, for some unexplained reason, has no intention of ever giving Tug any playing time.
Still suffering from the greatest robbery of all time: The stealing of the 1994 AL Central title from the Royals
Mirrors Aviles last year.
Tug’s not a world-beater, but doesn’t Trey get tired of losing every game 3-1?
fun Hulett note
Hulett has made one start so far. And that was on the 21st.
If Trey actually starts Hulett, then it becomes easier to demote TPJ, and nobody wants that
Still suffering from the greatest robbery of all time: The stealing of the 1994 AL Central title from the Royals
Now I can see why Trey’s mustache is so large. If it was smaller, the comparisons would be a lot easier.
Still suffering from the greatest robbery of all time: The stealing of the 1994 AL Central title from the Royals
yes I am aware that
the existence of Trey’s Musertache may require me to change my avatar
Still suffering from the greatest robbery of all time: The stealing of the 1994 AL Central title from the Royals
still need a front pic of Trey with that stache...
the photoshop result will be glorious.
Nothing from Nothing leads to... Your 2009 Kansas City Royals
by averagegatsby on Jul 1, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
would be nice if
screenshots of the press conferences were made. We still have that technology for computers, right?
Trey looks like someone in the witness relocation program in that pic, or Bobby Valentine after an IQ drop
Still suffering from the greatest robbery of all time: The stealing of the 1994 AL Central title from the Royals
I'm still self-ceonsoring re: DMGM until midnight here (13 minutes or so)
Check Neyer’s one-liner on JoPo’s column
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
okay... I'm free, gonna take it easy though
finally finished my thrilling Driveline column… scheduled to go up in a few hours… it’s got a SHOCKING discovery in it.
Posnanski says this isn’t about the Royals … but really it is, and we learn that 1) Mike Jacobs has one RBI in his last 101 plate appearances, 2) the Royals are the worst baserunners in the majors, by far, and 3) the offense gets worse every year, even though the people making the big decisions are just unbelievably bright and talented. Would JoePo lie to you?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 2, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm considering adopting JoePo's new zen like philosophy of anti-analysis
all posts now will merely be statements of facts, followed by a vague generalization that effectively says nothing, almost going so far as to present an entirely random universe without any causality
It’s a quirk of baseball — a quirk of sports.
a more recent JoPo comment is pretty devasting for him
But when you have a manager in the late innings of a close game using Luis Hernandez to pinch-hit for Tony Pena and then Tug Hulett to pinch hit for Luis Hernandez, well, at that point it might be time to seriously re-evaluate what kind of baseball organization you have become. Or way past time.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 2, 2009 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This whole season is one massive clusterfuck.
Hillman is really digging his own grave, the refusal to play Hulett, starting Pena EVER, the PH Luis then PH Hulett fiasco, starting Jacobs against LHP, the bullpen bungling, the list goes on for days. The heat is going to start coming down on Dayton from ownership – why are we pouring out all this cash for this garbage result – and since nobody wants the garbage players he’s accumulated at the prices we’ve paid for them, some heads are going to have to roll somewhere.
It’s been fun Trey… not.
realistically speaking
Oh, and letting meche throw 120+ pitches today.
That was the real masterstroke of complete mindblowing stupidity. What a goddamn idiot.
realistically speaking
And on another note...while I am ranting...
The sports media in Kansas City is an absolute joke. Using the word “media” in the journalistic sense to describe the hacks that cover the Royals is an insult to any reporter who has ever lived and simultaneously possessed any ounce, nay, a fucking gram of integrity and dedication to investigation. The fact that the front office has these guys (cough, Bob Dutton, Sam Mellinger, cough) scared shitless to ask any hard question, or even worse disagree with a front office move in print is embarrassing. These pushovers are the only avenue we have to hear the management and players questioned, and they consistently fail to ask the questions that beg to be asked and answered. As Will hit on in the main post, even Posnanski ,who has been fairly critical as late, comes off as a guilty little kid doing something he knows he’s not supposed to be doing. “I know I shouldn’t do this… but I really want to… I better apologize afterward to let them know I didn’t really mean it.” Occasionally you can pick up on some snipes in Dutton’s game wrap-ups, but when it comes to asking the tough questions… no can do.
What do I want to hear?
For example:
“Trey, would you mind explaining to me why Tony Pena Jr is allowed to come within 20 sheets of paper of the starting lineup?”
or
“Trey, what is the thinking behind batting Mike Jacobs against a left handed starting pitcher when he has consistently throughout his career been horrible against them?”
or
“Trey, is there a reason you pinch hit with Luis Hernandez for Tony Pena but gave Tony Pena the start?”
or
“Was it really a good idea to have a pitcher coming off a dead arm throw over 120 pitches on a night where he had little to no command?”
And these are just some recent examples. Would it be hard to ask these questions? Nope. Do they get asked? Nope. Does Trey-diva get free reign by the press to continually make asinine decisions and bungle the day to day management of this team on a level we have not seen since Tony Muser graced the dugout? Yes.
You know what though, these guys keep the status quo, and that’s all the Royals care about. There remains zero accountability, the management apparently remains incompetent, and we still don’t know what the hell is actually going on in these guys heads . I personally find the whole thing sickening, and this season has absolutely brought my frustration with this team and it’s “leadership” to a boiling point. Half of this roster is trash players, the manager doesn’t have a damn clue what he’s doing, our 3rd base coach is awful but the manager’s best friend, our head trainer is a glorified PE teacher that seems about as capable of keeping our players off the DL as Jesus Christ off the cross, and the list goes on…
realistically speaking
by slayor on Jul 2, 2009 3:58 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Greg Schaum (610) is the closest to critical
which means that he will be critical, but not to anybody’s face
the print media just doesn’t want their credentials pulled like certain people got for their criticism before
Still suffering from the greatest robbery of all time: The stealing of the 1994 AL Central title from the Royals
The KC media is so critical
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
So
I just got back from getting hammered on Canada day.
Looks like the Royals still suck in a myriad of ways.
Damn
NYRoyal has been working on a 13-part retrospective
I can only assume that’s the reason he’s been a ghost around here lately
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 2, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
All this "Quirk" talk makes me think a new managerial move in in the offing...
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
he should get a shot somewhere....
he got run out of town b/c muser was scared that quirk was going to take his job
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 2, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I like this comment from Poz's "Gil threw too many pitches" article
#13: Algonad said at 10:09 am on July 2nd, 2009:
The situation you referred to with Hillman at the "what the hell" stage has a name. That stage is the "no point in steering now" stage.
"No point in steering now" is what Bob MacKenzie says to his brother, Dave, as they realize they have no brakes while they’re heading down hill towards a lake in the movie "Strange Brew." I think it is a pretty appropriate analogy for the 2009 Royals.
just a funny analogy; i don’t think “not steering” is the way to run a team
by benfunke on Jul 2, 2009 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
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