Yeah, We Better Move Him To The Rotation

"Late in the game here," DeJesus said, "you can always feel that Red Sox aura. But once we got Soria in the game, we feel confident that he’s going to do the job. And he did the job as usual."

And this is why they're called stoppers and get paid the big bucks and are occasionally invaluable. - TL

4 months ago timlacy 42 comments 0 recs |

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So your silly sarcasm comes from DDJ's quote about how the Royals feel confident when Soria comes in to close?

Hell, I bet they’d feel even more confident with Greinke coming into the game in the 9th. Let’s make him the closer! Even better, let’s have Meche as the 7th inning man, Greinke as the 8th inning setup man and Soria closing. Then the Royals would feel really confident about the 7th, 8th and 9th innings! Let’s not concern ourselves with the 1st through 6th innings. They really aren’t that important.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 10:11 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs

The 1st through 6th innings are important...

but not as much as the 9th. That’s when you win games. Nobody has ever won a baseball game after the 1st inning. That’s why having your best pitcher in the last inning makes the most sense. And that’s why I think the Royals should have a daily nine-man rotation:

1st – Chen/Ponson (once healthy again)
2nd – Wright
3rd – Farnsworth
4th – Cruz
5th – Hochevar
6th – Bannister
7th – Meche
8th – Greinke
9th – Soria

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 10, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I have just confirmed it...

and the statistical evidence is overwhelming. 100% of Major League Baseball games were won in the 9th inning (excluding games that went into extra innings or were called early because of rain/weather).

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 10, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have also confirmed some other startling evidence

That 100% of baseball games that ended in the 9th, started in the 1st.

by AxDxMx on Jul 10, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't trust your stats

Start inning metrics still have serious question marks over them.

by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sample size!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

everybody pitches every day I love it

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on Jul 10, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

AWWWWWW the Johnny Wholestaff aproach

it sorta worked for Missouri this year, they got into the NCAA playoffs with it

soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 10, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I had a feeling this topic would draw a response from NY

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jul 10, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep, it was...

…almost a no-brainer.

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know that my "silly...

…sarcasm" on this issue predates any quote from DDJ. Your concern about innings 1-7 still doesn’t win a ballgame. You need quality pitching 1-9, so some one pitcher is always going to be “wasted” according to your logic. – TL

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

then...

trade hosmer, moustakas, montgomery and three walmarts for halladay, he can nail down the fifth and sixth (he’s VERY efficient). Viola! A four-inning game!

by billexgordler on Jul 10, 2009 10:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Some say voila, I say Viola. Tomato, tomahto...

by billexgordler on Jul 10, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

turn one of the walmarts into a Sam's Club, and you might have something

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bring back Frank Viola?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

At least bring back the 'stache...

Doesn’t Brian Tallet (from the Jays) sport a nearly identical look these days? Or at least when the Jays played at the K?

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 10, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It would truly be awful

if the players thought they had a chance at the beginning of the game.

Royals, NBA, Golden Hurricane, Hawkeyes, Chiefs, and KU basketball, in that order.

by Rowyal on Jul 10, 2009 10:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think there's a middle ground

I know that eschewing the closer role is a litmus test of being a stathead, but I don’t think we can completely discount the effect of a great closer. I don’t think we should discount DDJ’s words or the words of all the other players/managers that talk about how important the closer is. The placebo effect might work in baseball, too.

I’d try Soria in the rotation for all the usual reasons (chiefly because a good starter pitches 200 IP and a good closer pitches 60 IP), but I think statheads discount too heavily the psychological effect that an elite closer has on his team and the the closing team.

I think some of the closer aura is a self-fulfilling propehcy (players get all psyched about it because everyone gets all psyched about it), but I think statheads are too quick to discount the positive effect of a dominant closer.

My real problem with the closer role is when you have Roberto Hernandez or some random guy and the manager still tries to use him in the 9th. I’d prefer Soria starting, but I can see why he closes.

by hippdoghipp on Jul 10, 2009 11:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

So the team doesn't get all jazzed up when Greinke takes the mound?

I think you are discounting the effect of having an Ace in your rotation! Greinke is also considered a stopper, he just pitches the whole damn game!

by AxDxMx on Jul 10, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

in fact, isn't the term "stopper" usually used to describe a team's best starter?

Since he “stops” losing streaks?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not saying Soria would be an elite starter

But don’t you get sick of just seeing him when the Royals are winning by 3 runs or less?

by AxDxMx on Jul 10, 2009 11:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I get sick of seeing him in the bullpen

Four five days in a row because we never have a lead in the 9th.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Yes, I'm still alive. Sorry to disappoint you.

by royaldaddy on Jul 10, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Soria (1.0 WAR) is that much of a psychological weapon

I can only imagine the psychotic breaks caused by the impending entrace of David Aardsma (1.3 WAR) into the ballgame.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 11:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think we're missing the real question here

Which is: what other aura-piercing weapons do the Royals need in their arsenal in order to contend?

by 2X2L on Jul 10, 2009 11:21 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

The Sword of a Thousand Truths

To slay the deathless Gods, I see this as the only other weapon needed, or required

now whom to send out to quest for it? DDJ? maybe he does have boundless optimism.

soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 10, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wish there was a way that I could give this a negative rec

by The #1 Bockel on Jul 10, 2009 11:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Um, this...

…comment just did that.

by timlacy on Jul 10, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Closer-by-committee is getting no complaints for Braves, Rays

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 11:57 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Mike Gonzalez looks scarily like Joakim Soria in that pic

by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like this

by I need more Esteban on Jul 10, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's remember to frame the "debate" properly

At least for me, the issue was never that Soria could definitely be a starter. I don’ t know. I used to be pretty convinced, but Harry Pavlidis’ s series on Soria at THT was though-provoking.

Still, that isn’t the point. Whether or not Soria could be a starter is one issue. My (and I think others) say that if he can be an above-average starter and stay healthy, that is more valuable than him being a closer.

That’s a different issue.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 12:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Also there's some conflation going on here...

There are two issues that some fans have with Soria’s usage. One issue is that many people believe that Soria should be a starter. Reasonable minds can disagree on this one. The other issue is that people believe that Soria should be used in the highest leverage situations possible, and be used for more than three outs at a time. Anyone who disagrees with that is wrong. Soria was used properly last night (though I’d have like to seen him as soon as the winning run came to the plate) and pitched in a very high leverage situation. I don’t have nearly as much an issue with keeping him in the bullpen as long as they use him like they should. What’s more important than having a dominant “closer” is having a dominant bullpen, because it hurts just as much in the standings to lose a lead in the 6-8th innings as it does in the ninth blah blah blah…

by billexgordler on Jul 10, 2009 12:07 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs

It hurts the same in the standings

But losing in 9th hurts the fragile self-esteem of millionaire ballplayers SO MUCH MORE.

by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look

I don’t know what in the world is a better idea than moving a guy who hasn’t started a game in the minors since 2005 into the starting rotation.

Anyways, those rotator cuff problems were because he wasn’t a starter.

And if anybody is going to be a good starter, it’s someone with a 90mph fastball. Nobody can figure that out after 3 times in a night.

Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman

by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Eh

If you just throw straight 100mph fastballs, you’ll get figured quickly. Speed isn’t everything.

by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Average fastball speeds of some 2009 starting pitchers

Just out of curiousity, make of it what you will. From FanGraphs, not pitch f/x

Nick Blacklburn 90.3
James Shields 90.2
Wandy Rodriguez 90.1
Kevin Millwood 90.0
Cole Hamels 90.0
Joe Saunders 89.9
Joe Blanton 89.4
Jered Weaver 88.6
Derek Lowe 88.3
Brian Bannister 87.8
Ted Lilly 87.3
Mark Buerhle 85.6

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

but with Soria

He’s very consistent speedwise with the FB.. which means that it’s around the same speed, and he has to have the breaking stuff working to be a good pitcher. You don’t know how he’s going to pitch while fatigued. If his breaking stuff will wilt and leave him throwing 90mph fastballs.

i’m also pretty sure that comparing him to a bunch of LHP isn’t a bit unreasonable. Being a crafty lefty is more likely to lengthen your career than a crafty righty

Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman

by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

interesting

like I said, I just found the names and typed them out of interest

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But we know it won't...

We’ve seen him start before in the mexican leagues, hes pitched very well even deep into games…and if I recall correctly the mexican leagues are HARDER to throw offspeed stuff because of the altitude most of the games are played at.

I really see no reason at all for stamina or long term control to be an issue with Soria.
In fact there is no reason at all for him not to move to starting.

I refuse to set up a signature....DAMMIT

by RoyalPug on Jul 11, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs