Royals acquire SS Yuniesky Betancourt for P Dan Cortes and P Derrick Saito
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 11, 2009 2:33 AM EDT
633 comments
The Royals got the shortstop they have coveted for so long, acquiring 27 year old shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt from the Seattle Mariners for minor league pitchers Dan Cortes and Derrick Saito. Betancourt was hitting .250/.278/.330 with 2 HR and 22 RBI in 63 games. His best offensive year was in 2007 when he hit .289/.308/.418 with 9 HR 67 RBI. He has a lifetime .302 on-base percentage.
His UZR last season was -12.7 and he has actually gotten worse this year, posting a -18. He is signed through 2011, and is owed $3 million in 2010, and $4 million in 2011. He has a $6 million club option for 2012, with a $2 million buyout.
Fangraphs has his value at $-3.6 million.
Betancourt is currently on the disabled list with a hamstring injury and is on rehab assignment in the minor leagues.
Cortes, 22, was a right-handed pitcher acquired in the Mike MacDougal trade. He was listed as the fourth best prospect in the organization by John Sickels and the third best by Baseball America. In 16 games for AA Northwest Arkansas, he was 6-6 with a 3.92 ERA, but a disappointing 57/50 K/BB ratio in 80 1/3 innings.
Saito, 21, was a left-handed pitcher taken in the 16th round of the 2008 Amateur Draft out of Cal Poly. After posting a 4.36 ERA in Idaho Falls last year, he posted a 4.15 ERA with an impressive 53/15 K/BB ratio in 52 relief innings at low A Burlington.
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Jesus wept
Seriously, this is a bad dream
I’m going to wake up. I’m going to wake up. I’m going to wake up.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 3:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I didn't wake up
I hate the Royals
by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This move is exactly what the Royals needed to do to fix the black hole at SS that they’ve had all year. They went out and acquired another black hole, and all they had to give up was some pitching prospects, and we all know that those never pan out any way. I applaud this move, and if this is a sign of things to come within this organization, we all need to buy a good pair of shades, because the future is very bright!
by drdonkeypunch on Jul 10, 2009 3:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
says who?
he’d still be in our top 10…and likely a very good big league reliever if not solid back of the rotation guy
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course he is
What utter nonsense.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 11, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i even hate dan cortes
and think that is an insane thing to say….
i think the most likely scenario for cortes is that he ends up being a pretty good reliever with a shot to become a decent back half starter….which is so much more valuable than fucking betancourt. this is retarded….i cant believe people are defending it. i listened to the postgame shows tonite half expecting them to defend it and they were going batshit insane about how stupid it was….and then i came back here…
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gobble, Reichert,
George, Bautista, Griffn, Rusch, Pittsley, Snyder
other top 10 pitching prospects that we were in love with. People were all over Gobble and George, but the Royals refused to trade them. The funny thing about top 10 prospect lists is that you have to put 10 players in them. It doesn’t mean much to KC. With the depth Moore is putting in the minors, Cortes is nothing.
by chjohn on Jul 11, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spite
that is the only possible explanation.
by PopeSoria on Jul 10, 2009 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The battle of Grass Creek cranks up another notch!
by Matthew on Jul 10, 2009 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
This isn't a battle it's hell!
You got slurved!
Hehehe Mark Reynolds is so awesome.
by Slurvey on Jul 10, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First, you don't answer my emails regarding TRA
and now, you convert Dayton Moore you your side
I’m so angry I could vomit in horror
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TPJ found his Neifi
DH: Where's the party!
Danny: David Howard and Mike Sweeney! Go away! Guys, you're gonna wake up my Mom!
by David Howards Legacy on Jul 10, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
Dan Cortes and Derrick Saito are NOT Jermaine Dye. Second, Betancourt’s numbers aren’t ballpark-inflated, like Perez’s were.
by jbrocato on Jul 11, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I sure hope they are held down by his ballpark then
Because he’s got a 63 OPS+ this year, and he’s -18 in UZR/150, not to mention a -.8 WAR. So to paraphrase Adam Ant: You don’t hit, you don’t field, what do you do?
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is only a matter of time until Francoeur joins him on the team
I anxiously await the blog posts from Rany, JoePo, and Mellinger on the trade
by Top Ramen on Jul 10, 2009 3:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I am so sorry guys, I hope he turns awesome for you I really do.
I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.
by EnglishMariner on Jul 10, 2009 3:25 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Our thoughts and prayers are with you in your time of need KC.
by waldo rojas on Jul 10, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I would never wish a Yuni acquisition on anyone.
Godspeed.
by Zwakamatsu on Jul 10, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should just hope there is an even stupider gm out there.
So you get a chance to dump him on someone else, like Bavasi is he ever gets another job.
by Flamefox111 on Jul 10, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, there isn't and there won't be.
We already can’t dump Jose Guillen, we just got another massive hole of suck.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its official
Press releases on the Royals web site.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 3:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dan Cortes.....
starting for your 2012 AL All-Stars….
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 3:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought you didn't like Cortes much and saw him as a middle of the rotation guy at best
Now he’s going to be an All-Star? That smacks of intellectual dishonesty in the very least.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He probably thinks he'll be a star because he left the Royals
Like Ellis and. . . um. . . um. . .
by BrRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Howell
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Jul 10, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Ellis's star is shining really brightly!
I’d call him a superstar really.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still don't like the trade
but assuming Cortes is going to become better just because he was traded out of the organization doesn’t make much sense. That said, if he becomes anything remotely good, I don’t think we win this trade.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on Jul 10, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The real problem is that Yuni now becomes "the answer" for the Royals at SS
He’s going to be the everyday SS for the forseeable future.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor Aviles :(
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on Jul 10, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be surprised if he were still a Royal by opening day 2010
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It makes me sad
The guy proved he was, at the very least, a good ML reserve last year. Now it seems as if the Royals have just forgotten about him.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on Jul 10, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
team sources are reluctant to admit
that due to infection from his arm it had to be amputated.
by KCScuba on Jul 10, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He’s going to be the everyday SS for the forseeable future.
This is where you’re wrong. Dayton’s shown a great ability to admit mistakes and adapt.
by royalsreview on Jul 10, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I don't think the problem is admitting mistakes, per se
It is seeing mistakes. I think when he recognizes a mistake (Tomko, HoRam), he cuts his losses. But he never thought TPJ was a mistake. He misreads TPJ’s value. He’s done the same thing with Yuni and will likely continue to do so for years.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Correct
TPJ is not a mistake. He is a defensive stopper!!!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
An offensive one too!
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Jul 10, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Since when does it take more than 1 REC to make a post green?
Did I miss something?
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Jul 10, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was Ellis traded just this past offseason?
Wow. I’m glad he’s gone. I twas hell sitting through all those 3 and 4 WAR seasons.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was a joke...
i really cant decide what i think of this trade. I dont think that cortes will be any sort of star….but it seems as if he along with cortes were our only real hope of help coming from the minors next year. and with yuni, i just dont know…he’s better than tpj
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and i mean rosa along with cortes
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't DM actually did this
Saito probably isn’t going to contribute at the major league level but I still have high hopes for Cortes. Surely the Royals could have gotten more for a prospect like Cortes?
This one doesn’t make a lot of sense…
by jsolo on Jul 10, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What's really surprising
Is that they gave Saito a six figure bonus and traded him anyway. DM has been coveting Betancourt for awhile.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trading away Saito and Cortes doesn't bother me that much
lots of prospects flame out and Cortes was having issues this year.
The fact that we picked up Betancourt at all is what bothers me. When Moore arrived in KC, he banished the demons of Angel Berroa from the K. 3 years later, he traded away prospects to get them back.
by Top Ramen on Jul 10, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Cortes would have made a nice trading chip I think, but not for a guy who really has negative value.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so we have now turned macdougal into betancourt....
win or loss?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 3:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry KC fans that you are about to be subjected to watching this player.
How can Moore possibly covet this player? Bad work ethic, terrible defense, no plate discipline. Yuni shouldn’t even be in the league.
by Rudy4three on Jul 10, 2009 3:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"Yuni shouldn’t even be in the league."
Well, we do lead the league in those kind of players
by Top Ramen on Jul 10, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is he christian?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's cuban
Commies aren’t allowed to be religious. :)
DH: Where's the party!
Danny: David Howard and Mike Sweeney! Go away! Guys, you're gonna wake up my Mom!
by David Howards Legacy on Jul 10, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
if he’s got terrible defense & no plate discipline he fits right in.
by hunter s. royal on Jul 10, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was going to rec this if it was an onion-like piece.
Now I’m probably just buying a gun.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on Jul 10, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
i seriously thought it was a joke...
i went to the royals website and it wasnt there
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rarely is a trade so soul-crushing
This ranks up there with the Jermaine Dye trade I’m afraid. Its not as impactful, but man, it really sends me the wrong message about the guy leading this team.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
To me
It just, again, what we already knew. Dayton has no comprehension of what a good position player is, or how to evaluate them. None.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would you say that?
The worst defensive team in baseball just picked up a guy with a -12 UZR in 2008, and a -18 UZR in 2009.
The worst on base percentage team in baseball just picked up a guy with a lifetime .302 OBA.
Dear lord, if Dayton Moore was Kirstie Alley’s dietician, the first thing he’d do is march her over to Pizza Hut’s buffet.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
But Moore can put together a bullpen with shaving cream, a tooth pick, a 12V battery and ...
the still beating heart of a Aouth American tapir!!!
He’s a freaken bullpen McGiver MAN!!!
soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 10, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*South, why does the A button have to be so close to the S
soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 10, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
because if it were next to the f your typing would fuck
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Jul 10, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“.279 career Batting Average? He must be good at getting on base”
by Top Ramen on Jul 10, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he is going to flip Yuni for Pujols and make you happy?
I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.
by EnglishMariner on Jul 10, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys do NOT fucking deserve this.
Seriously. I’m on the Mariners’ side in the Grass Creek War, but this is like the US Cavalry giving a small pox blankets to the Native Americans.
My condolences.
by Decatur on Jul 10, 2009 3:39 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
To be fair
It’s like giving the blanket after the village is already infected. Is one more crappy SS even going to matter at this point?
by Pauli on Jul 10, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Potential silver lining: Does TPJ go away?
Or do we have the most laughably bad depth chart at SS now?
by Royal Revival on Jul 10, 2009 3:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd actually rather have Pena playing for 6 figures
than this turd playing for millions….
by PopeSoria on Jul 10, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it must be
we need a 25 man move. Pena is the only logical choice. Unless Brayan gets the axe.
DH: Where's the party!
Danny: David Howard and Mike Sweeney! Go away! Guys, you're gonna wake up my Mom!
by David Howards Legacy on Jul 10, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TPJ NEVER GOES AWAY
You cannot hope to be cured, only to adapt.
- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes
by JobDDT on Jul 10, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Solid D up the middle in Yuni, Freel, and Callaspo. It all makes sense now.
by Royal Revival on Jul 10, 2009 3:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The only thing solid with Yuseless up the middle is what comes out of his arse.
I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.
by EnglishMariner on Jul 10, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are not helping the grief process
by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Think of it as payback for signing Gil Meche
He has actually been halfway decent for you guys. Nobody can be halfway decent and play in KC.
by Flamefox111 on Jul 10, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Meche has been much better than "halfway decent"
…that is, if you care about things like stats.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 11, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This has the feeling of another one of those "in a vacuum" trades
In a vacuum, the Royals picked up a shortstop who is about 5 times better than TPJ and TPJJ. Much in the same sense that “Jacobs >>> Gload === WINS!!!”
Once you step outside of that vacuum though….
we now owe $10M (possibly less) and are tied for 2.5 more seasons to one of the worst everyday shortstops in the league. We’re going to remove Bloomquist’s .335 OBP from shortstop and replace it with a .278 OBP.
by Top Ramen on Jul 10, 2009 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bloomquist is probably going to regress anyway
and he’s not a good ML SS.
Of course, neither is Betancourt. Fuck this shit.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on Jul 10, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it really pains me to write that I'd rather have Willie Bloomquist at SS than anyone
but that’s the clogged toilet that we’re left with
by Top Ramen on Jul 10, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yuniesky must have phenominal lateral range.
At least we didn’t trade Butler this time.
by hippdoghipp on Jul 10, 2009 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would of gone on a killing spree if he had
Starting at the Truman Sports Complex, Kansas City, MO.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aha!
I’ve been searching for the “silver lining” – not giving up Butler must be it!
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Jul 10, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Diggity
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 10, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just heard the news.
Looks like opinions are pretty split on this one.
by Black and Gold on Jul 10, 2009 3:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Aplit between Horrific and Appaling
by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about that
The Mariner fans seem pretty pleased.
by Black and Gold on Jul 10, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When is the parade in honor of Dayton Moore?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's in Seattle
Down 3rd street they just posted it!
soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 10, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What really sucks
Is that he is just guaranteed to play every day for the next three years. They will never bench him, no matter how awful he is.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 4:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought he will be the bench
and TPJ is still the first-option starter.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Jul 10, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So if Daniel Cortes + Derrick Saito = Yuniesky Betancourt
Kila + low-A prospect = Horacio Ramirez?
by Top Ramen on Jul 10, 2009 4:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh great
now I have to figure out how to spell Yuniesky consistently.
As for Dan Cortes… looks like his K rate plunged this year. Granted, why the hell they kept him in AA after 2008 is beyond my comprehension. But unless his control shapes up, he’s a future reliever
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 4:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It all makes sense now
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 4:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Also
hopefully Yuniesky will keep Brayan Pena on the team. Brayan has a good attitude, and he’s the same age and nationality as Yuniesky
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 4:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Someone please save me from these idiots commenting on the KC Star article.
I just was told to put my duncecap back on by some guy who loves the moves Dayton Moore is making.
by AJaha25 on Jul 10, 2009 4:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jin Wong isn't getting paid for nothing!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why you don't comment on KC Star articles.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
by Warden11 on Jul 10, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
if this isn’t enough to get rid of TPJ, then Dayton is a moron
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ugly
And stupid.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
UZR hates Yuni
I wonder how PMR and Dewan’s Plus/Minus see him. I’m not optimistic.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dewan had him at -18 last year
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on Jul 10, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Per the infallible source...Wikipedia
Betancourt’s calling card has been his fielding. In his first few seasons, he was fast becoming one of the best fielders in the game, combining excellent range, quickness, soft hands, hand-eye coordination, and his strong, accurate throwing arm. He was named one of the top fielders in baseball in a 2006 online fan’s poll.3 In 2007, he led all of baseball with 65 “good fielding plays.” However, he suffered through spells of throwing wildness that season. Bad throws accounted for most of his 18 errors in the first half of 2007, almost as many as his 2006 total of 20. He turned things around and made only 5 errors in the second half of 2007. His defense suffered in 2008, with several fielding metrics calling him one of the worst shortstops in baseball.
Also this…
He left Cuba on a speedboat in December 2003 1 and ended up in Mexico, where he played for a while before signing with Seattle Mariners scouts Bob Engle and Patrick Guerrero on January 26, 2005.
There’s also discussion of his “unreal” ability to hit with runners in scoring position…ugh.
by RoyalsFanInBillings on Jul 10, 2009 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank you Dayton!
We would have traded Yuni for some good BBQ. The battle for Grass Creek ratchets up another notch.
Perhaps this wakes Yuni up and he stops being fat and bad. He wasn’t always like this.
"Why should I stretch? Does a cheetah stretch before it chases its prey?"
-Griffey
by Big Jared on Jul 10, 2009 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Dayton's "Rebuild" of the Offense Continues
its just a quirk of sports, a quirk of baseball
by royalsreview on Jul 10, 2009 4:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Building offense, defense or pitching is irrelevant
DM just needs to build a team with a greater run differential. If it were all great pitching or great defense, that would be fine. As long as the run differential there, it’s all good. But it doesn’t look like Yuni is a good run differential guy. He doesn’t hit well or play particularly good defense. That’s not a good thing.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's basically a replacement level player
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on Jul 10, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I could live with his bat if he played Gold Glove defense. I could live with his glove if he hit like Jeter. He is bad at both.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that...
perhaps you missed the JoePo tiff…
by royalsreview on Jul 10, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being too busy to read the internet: a quirk of fatherhood
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, he's got a great run differential
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is part of the plan
stock the Royals with Cubans.. and when Cuban communism moderates to allow their players to come here, they will wish to come to Cuba’s team.. the KC Royals!
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 4:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what's that lefties name?
throws 100?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
by 306008 on Jul 10, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't even know what to say...
but this sucks
by royalsreview on Jul 10, 2009 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
DM is about to get a Dear John letter from me
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Please, introduce him to the concept of replacement level
I can’t believe we’re married to this guy for two more seasons.
by hippdoghipp on Jul 10, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the good news is we can probably require cortes for butler
if we want to go in that direction
by royalsreview on Jul 10, 2009 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
fart knockering stupid sucking poopy smelling
garbage eating shit-tastic knuckle headed dumb ass f-ing mentally handicapped move… i can’t believe it.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Jul 10, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
the ONLY silver lining is that
hopefully the M’s are paying ALL of his salary… so we can dump him and cost nothing.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Jul 10, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not head over heels in love with Cortes anymore and this trade still sucks
Yuni just isn’t very good at anything.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts exactly
I thought Cortes might be a decent trading chip and I think he’ll be a decent middle reliever, but to deal him for a guy who has negative trade value is pretty mind-boggling.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Silver lining: TPJ should certainly be gone
Another dark cloud looming: What does this say about Mike Aviles? He’s pretty going to be shown the door at this point, right?
by RoyalsFanInBillings on Jul 10, 2009 4:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Probably utility infielder
if he returns successfully
by Top Ramen on Jul 10, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pitching is actually the currency of baseball
And DM just flushed a good deal of currency down the crapper.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:15 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
remember when +1 was popular?
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Jul 10, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Appears that DM thinks shitty shortstops are the currency of baseball
and he’s hoarding them
by Royal Revival on Jul 10, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
{takes note} "ah, i see"
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Jul 10, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorta reminds me of those commercials...
where the guy gives a big trash bag of cash to the garbage man. I don’t know what the commercial was promoting, but thats just what it reminded me of.
If all else fails, stop using all else
by ksuroyals on Jul 10, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
On the bright side...DM is making progress----he identified a position taht we truly need help at. As opposed to last winter when he identified CF, !B,DH, and shitty relievers.
by Steve Hovley on Jul 10, 2009 4:17 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
yeah... you gotta remember the hand he was dealt when he came to KC
Tony Pena Jr.? Luis Hernandez? Willie Bloomquist?
DAMN YOU ALLARD BAIRD
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Cortes better be a total fuckup or else
Moore’s record of trading pitchers isn’t awful.
Cortes should have started 2009 in Omaha, but his second year in NW Arkansas has been worse than 2008
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 4:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
WAR
Tony Pena Jr. -0.6
Yuniesky Betancourt -0.8
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
seriously...
this is what being a royals fan is all about
you never know how bad it can be
Berroa to TPJ to Yuni
by royalsreview on Jul 10, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this exchange pretty much sums up the Royals SS position over the past 3 years:
Skinner: ahh, but as it turns out the lizards were a godsend since they’ve eaten all the pigeons.
Lisa: Isn’t that a little short sighted, what happens when we’re up to our ears with lizards?
Skinner: Ah, well we shall simply release wave after wave of Chinese needles snakes.
Lisa: then what about the snakes?
Skinner: We simply import gorillas who will eat all the snakes.
Lisa: Well what happens when we’re up to our ears in gorilla’s!
Skinner: Ah that’s the beauty of the thing, come winter the gorillas will freeze to death.
by Top Ramen on Jul 10, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
I love that quote
Well played sir. Well played.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One KC Star blogger is dead on
http://uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com/?q=node/1226
-You play to win the game - Herm Edwards
by truebluetradition on Jul 10, 2009 4:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is a head-scratcher. I don’t understand — or approve of — this trade on any level. To me, this seems like another example of the Royals dealing for a player because of what they think he can be, rather than recognizing what he actually is.
by royalsreview on Jul 10, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what makes this trade even better?
Knowing that Hillman will bat Betancourt in the #2 hole every night
by nwroyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And displace Bloomy????
Maybe he’ll bat Yuni third.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://ussmariner.com/2009/06/10/the-end-of-yuniesky-betancourt/
Some great quotes:
Betancourt, who has had meetings with his manager and coaches all season, insists he’s doing nothing different now than ever.
"I’ve been doing the same routine for years," Betancourt said. "I can’t control the lineup. I’m doing whatever I’ve done in the past."
That, of course, may well be the issue. Betancourt has never been a hard worker, and the past four days have not served him well.
Since being out of the lineup, his teammates say, Betancourt has not taken a single ground ball.
And Monday, when 12 position players showed up for early batting practice, Betancourt was not among them.
"I was asleep on the plane when they announced that," Betancourt said.
Clearly, he can turn it around in Kansas City, the organization that holds everyone accountable.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Only two things will make this franchise successful again
1. Glass fires DM
AND
2. Glass figures out that he needs to hire a GM who understands this new fangled statistical stuff.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i like that you've joined me on the fire dayton bandwagon....
how do you feel about trey?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My feelings about Trey have never changed from day one
He’s like just about every other MLB manager. He’s a little better on some things and a little worse on others, but he’s a standard, traditional MLB manager. He’s follows the standard baseball orthodoxy rule book for the most part. He’s not forward thinking. He’s not untraditional. He’s not modern. He’s not sabermetric. It’s hard to name a couple MLB managers who are. So I’m happy with firing him. And then, of course, he’ll be replaced by another manager who is very much the same. The only way this might change is if we have a sabermetric GM who understands that “by the book” isn’t a smart way to manage.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'd love to know what he's better at than most managers
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HE IS AN ALL-STAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Jul 10, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dayton now as new reason for fans to be mad at him instead of trying to defend Swartz
Its a PR move, doesn’t matter that it makes the team worse
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Jul 10, 2009 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Note to Trey
if you bat Betancourt 2nd against RHP, you are a moron.
Betancourt can justify a high spot against LHP, but not against RHP
I have no idea how the hell YB is a worse hitter outside of Safeco. But I hope that the hitting background can elevate YB to drawing slightly more walks than usual.
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Fixed for you
Note to Trey, if you bat Betancourt 2nd against RHP, you are a moron.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Why?
What is it that GMDM is looking at? Seriously, is this guy on some kind of secret mission to completely ruin any chances of this team ever competing?
I have been tolerant to this point, but now I say: FIRE DAYTON MOORE!
-You play to win the game - Herm Edwards
by truebluetradition on Jul 10, 2009 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it is this simple: Moore and his people think Yuni is a great defensive SS
And he’s wrong.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can they logically think that?
-You play to win the game - Herm Edwards
by truebluetradition on Jul 10, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They highly value "lateral movement"
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crap
This move means that Bianchi’s position is now covered at the major league level for the next 2.5 years. Which means he’s a SS available for trade….I think you can see where this is going…
by Top Ramen on Jul 10, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bianchi for Frenchy!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will cry
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
by 306008 on Jul 10, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bianchi probably isn't ready until 2011 at the earliest.
I sure didn’t want another season and a half of TPJ before then. I like this trade.
by jbrocato on Jul 11, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he walked sideways to the frig?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
great scouting...
I've got crazy flipper fingers!
by labbadabba on Jul 10, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Wikipedia...
I've got crazy flipper fingers!
by labbadabba on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but didn't the Braves actually compete?
-You play to win the game - Herm Edwards
by truebluetradition on Jul 10, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never mind, I answered my own question
Logic never played a part
-You play to win the game - Herm Edwards
by truebluetradition on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some scouts like Yuni's defensive tools.
Maybe even a lot of scouts.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
does some mean some besides the royals?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, many scouts like his defensive tools
He has a good defensive reputation amoung the tools-based analysts. He just hasn’t turned those defensive tools into good defensive results, especially in recent seasons. And he appears to be getting worse with age, which is common for defensive performance.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 11, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Goodbye, Daniel Cortes....we hardly knew ye
I’ll refrain from posting the photo of him naked on the toilet…
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too. ~Greg, age 8
by loyal2theroyals on Jul 10, 2009 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was going to post something to the effect of
YB > TPJ
But then Retro had to put up their WAR….thanks for that….ugh.
I was hoping to hold out on SS before we found out exactly what the timeline is on Aviles and our ability to perhaps pursue Scutaro or Wilson in the offseason. This just smacks of desperation rather than team-building.
We’re supposed to be selling off our “Major League” talent for prospects at this point right? That’s how this thing works?
I've got crazy flipper fingers!
by labbadabba on Jul 10, 2009 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
At least Dayton is consistent
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Jul 10, 2009 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 10 recs
What the hell? Helping the Mariners?
And giving them young pitching, which is freaking valuable, period, in the process? Not cool. Rage.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 10, 2009 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i wonder how much worse the royals would have been with just sticking with Luis Hernandez
by royalsreview on Jul 10, 2009 4:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you can't stick with something you never gave a chance
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"That whole Tug thing just didn't work out."
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Jul 11, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happy people look like
< A HREF=“http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2009/7/10/944919/yuni-traded#comments”>Lookout Landing – Yuni Traded
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 4:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bianchi for Francoeur?
By the end of the week, now SS is tied up for the future.
Who’d bet against it?
by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
TPJ's WAR
isn’t it higher than usual because TPJ hasn’t played a lot this year?
If Trey went full retard and played TPJ every day, it’d be much lower, right?
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why so glum?
According to the Minister of Propaganda’s Royal’s official web-site:
He is a career .279 hitter with 123 doubles, 17 triples, 27 home runs and 202 RBI over five seasons with Seattle after making his debut in 2005. Since becoming the Mariners full-time shortstop in 2006, his 341 double plays rank second in all of baseball to Oakland’s Orlando Cabrera (357). He has been tough to strikeout throughout his career, fanning just once every 11.86 plate appearances, the sixth-best total in baseball since 2005 (min. 2,000 at bats).
by Black and Gold on Jul 10, 2009 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If on base percentage was so important
Why don’t they put it on the score board?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe they should but "double plays turned" on the scoreboard.
by hippdoghipp on Jul 10, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know they will
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can only hope
that when they say “his 341 double plays rank second in all of baseball,” they are talking about his defense.
by Black and Gold on Jul 10, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, well...yeah
Maybe they should put GIDP on the scoreboard too. He’s really, really good at that. Man on first? One out? Yuni up? Inning over.
Y’all have our sympathy. Really, you do.
"Get offa my lawn!"
by Greybear on Jul 10, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love seeing RBIs quoted...
its like a vestige of a long forgotten language
if you asked me how many RBIs any royal had, i would have no idea
by royalsreview on Jul 10, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But everyone knows
Guillen had 97 last year, and 22 HR’s!
Mellinger said so.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tough to strikeout...
This was my favorite part. As a Mariners fan I can only think of a handful of times he even saw three pitches. Usually he’s grounding into double plays, should we have been unlucky enough to have a runner on first when he’s up to bat.
by Ghumbs on Jul 10, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dear Yuniesky
Run hard, or you will get booed.
The one thing that unites nerds and casual fans is a dislike of slacking.
If Betancourt goes full Berroa, then this stay in KC will suck for him
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He can't read
Ande he doesn’t care about boos, from team mates or fans.
Thank you Dayton
by Bill Bavisi on Jul 10, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
never go full Berroa
half-assed Berroa is much better.
DH: Where's the party!
Danny: David Howard and Mike Sweeney! Go away! Guys, you're gonna wake up my Mom!
by David Howards Legacy on Jul 10, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm in the airport in Tampa....
What do I think of this? I’m not sure whether or not to get on this plane…. I went to a Rays game yesterday (Halladay vs. Price) and might just stay here to watch winning baseball…. but I’m not sure….
We didn’t give anything up in Saito. He won’t be much more than a LOOGY in the bigs… and Cortes? He’ll get it figured out in the long run. Maybe Y gets it figured out here…
Here’s to hoping….
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
by 306008 on Jul 10, 2009 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They had to ditch Cortes as soon as possible.
For god’s sakes, he pee’d in public!!!!11
by RATW on Jul 10, 2009 4:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well at least he's on the DL
Our training staff will know what to do…
I've got crazy flipper fingers!
by labbadabba on Jul 10, 2009 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm waiting for devil_finger's opinion before I pass judgment
I wonder if he’ll like this trade.
by hippdoghipp on Jul 10, 2009 4:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
At least we didn't trade for Orlando Cabrera?
Pecota, watch over us.
by castille on Jul 10, 2009 4:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
At least we get rid of Pena Jr
eventually, you know if the Royals training staff doesn’t screw up Betancourt’s rehab.
Anyway that we can hope that B. Cox’s displeasure with Yunel Escobar is so bad that we can trade Betancourt/Freel and someone else to the Braves for him?
by Brandon K on Jul 10, 2009 4:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You think so?
I don’t. Pena Jr. is the defensive replacement in the late innings. As the Royals acquired the WORST SS in baseball this year.
by AxDxMx on Jul 10, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess if it comes out that the M's are paying most of his salary...
that might influence my opinion on the trade a little
by royalsreview on Jul 10, 2009 4:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Moore's going for the top pick in the draft
We need another high-ceiling position(less) player who struggles at the plate.
by BrRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 4:48 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
He stole my material!
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Jul 10, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's all part of the plan
a full roster of bad middle infielders.
it’s coming guys.
DM is pulling a bernie madoff, but instead of our money, he’s doing it with our hopes and dreams.
by kevinf on Jul 10, 2009 4:52 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
also
Betancourt has quite a few doubles and this park is pretty good for doubles. Then again, his doubles could come from him being too slow to get triples.
So he could be a shittier Callaspo
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 4:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What a week for DM...Need a CF? Snap up Freel off the scrap heap (also with hamstring issues.) Need a SS? Grab the guy with one of the worst defensive rankings in MLB and has low OBP ( with hamstring issues.)
by Steve Hovley on Jul 10, 2009 4:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the royals don't believe in hamstrings
by royalsreview on Jul 10, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if a player's got grit
he can fight through any hamstring trouble
by kevinf on Jul 10, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nick Swartz is the "hamstring whisperer"
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
other YB offensive info
19% linedrives (around average) with over 20% LDs in 2007 and 2008
Linedrive percentages for Royals players
Mark Teahen 19%
David DeJesus 19%
Billy Butler 18%
Mike Jacobs 17%
Alberto Callaspo 17%
John Buck 17%
*Mitch Maier 16%
Willie Bloomquist 16%
Miguel Olivo 13%
Jose Guillen 13%
YB’s GB/FB ratio is funky too
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 5:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
as a rangers fan
i ask why? why make the mariners better?
The dance of the puppets
The rusted chains of prison moons
Are shattered by the sun.
I walk a road, horizons change
The tournaments begun.
by gossamer on Jul 10, 2009 5:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Success is only worthwhile when you earn it.
Harder competition will make success more glorious.
In the reverse, having less talent and winning would be glorious. . . except it probably means everyone else slipped in the crap you left in the field and that’s how you won the game.
New slogan: The Kansas City Royals: It’s harder for the opposition to play defense with all the crap we put on the field! And it makes the grass nice!
by BrRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bud has to veto this, right?
If this trade happened in the fantasy league I commish, I would have to veto it as being too ridiculously unfair.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 10, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For some reason the Royals front office didn't consult with us before making this move
Complain to them, not us.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 11, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've missed a lot of comments, so I'm sure
someone will fill me in on the positives we’ve gleaned from this trade.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 10, 2009 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he doesnt piss on fences....
or at least get caught doing it
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
man, that's what i was afraid of
can i make money from starting : joepoban# or pozban#?
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 10, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dayton
called Yuniesky “Yunel” in the press conference.
He didn’t…
by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 5:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
since Betancourt can't have #5
my suggestion is #18, in honor of his ridiculously long name
I didn’t know you could trade a guy while he was on the DL
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 5:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bud can say yes
And he was on rehab. I assume they figure he is fit again really.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait. Bud is OKing DL trades
and blocking draft pick signings? Ew.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 10, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bud Selig wants the Royals to get so bad he can move them to Mexico City
LEAGUE EXPANSION INTO INTERNATIONAL MARKETS
by Soria's Unibrow on Jul 10, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow. I heard this on 610 as a breaking event, then read all these comments.
I have absolutely no opinion on this move at all. Nothing to say, negative or positive. Should I? Does it deserve any emotion when it’s such an apparently “nothing” move?
I guess I’m lying. Appreciate this, Seattle. At least it wasn’t a straight up trade, TPJ for Yuselesski.
What are they going to do for a SS in Seattle now? Package a recently acquired attractive minor league pissing pitching prospect with another one from their own farm system along with some cash considerations and actually go out and get what WE really needed?
The positive I can see out of this is that now we’ve got a Spanish speaking crossover who can talk to our Latin guys about weaknesses in the Marineros plans so that we can step up our game in the Battle for Grass Creek.
Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.
by BillyMojo on Jul 10, 2009 5:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You also have Miguel Olivo for that
IF I WAS MANAGER I'D HAVE A FIST FIGHT WITH YUNI RIGHT NOW AND KNOCK HIS FUCKING MONKEY HEAD CLEAN OFF (~EM)
by seattlecougar on Jul 10, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Want to kill /strangle/maim/hurt/laugh at while pointing/ something just something
to get rid of this questionable feeling I have in the pit of my stomach…………
oh it’s gone, but I just threw up all over my desk at work, I’ll yell at the skinny chick who’s judging me
AT LEAST I DID IT WHERE PEOPLE CAN SEE AND NOT THE BATHROOM EVERY DAY AT AROUND 12:30!!!!!
SO ANGRY!!
soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 10, 2009 5:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the thread is starting to slow down for me....
time for a dayton moore is useless overflow thread?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 5:31 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
yeah pretty much
soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 10, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So let me get this straight
We gave up a reliever with some solid potential and a top pitching prospect, one with some issues this year,but evaluating prospects on one half year of data is a shitty way to evaluate, forrrrr Yunieski Betancourt?
Quick, name one thing he does well……………………….
I’ll be waiting here all night Dayton you fucking dumbass.
by wildthang on Jul 10, 2009 5:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oh...saito is the reliever...my bad
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I glanced at the title of this post, saw the letters "Y" and "SS," and thought we'd gotten Yunel Escobar
Then I read further. I had a mood swing so violent it knocked me out of my chair.
It was like opening your Christmas present expecting Bonestorm and getting Lee Carvallo’s Putting Challenge instead.
by Soria's Unibrow on Jul 10, 2009 5:35 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
That's a great cold closing
Welcome to Lee Carvello’s putting challenge.
I am Carvello.
Now chose a club…
You have chosen a 3 wood.
May I suggest a putter?
3 wood.
Now enter the force of your swing, I suggest feather touch.
You have entered POWER DRIVE.
Now push 7 – 8 – 7 to swing.
Ball is in… parking lot.
Would you like to play again?
You have selected ‘no’.
by sterlingice on Jul 10, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if DM keeps TPJ when YB comes off the DL
then fucking grrrrrrr
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 5:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dude
here are some the shortstops we’ve had in the last decade
Rey Sanchez, Neifi Fucking Perez, Angel Berroa, Andres Blanco, Tony Pena Jr, Mike Aviles, Willie Bloomquist
when your two best shortstops in the last 10 years were Rey Sanchez and Willie Sporkquist…
Esky doesn’t have a high standard to meet here
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think 2008 Aviles is definitely the best of that horrible shitpile
by Soria's Unibrow on Jul 10, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2008 Aviles and 2003 Berroa were nice
but Aviles is probably done as a full-time SS now
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly you're probably right
And I forgot about Berroa’s RotY season. Maybe someday we can get a shortstop who is above average for two seasons in a row… or, and maybe I’m asking for too much here… three or more seasons in a row?!
by Soria's Unibrow on Jul 10, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
people also forget
that Rey Sanchez hit close to .300 a couple of years… right before we aquired Neifi Perez…
I've got crazy flipper fingers!
by labbadabba on Jul 11, 2009 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's all part of the grand strategy
To corner the market on mediocre infielders. Then, when some other team wants a mediocre infielder, we can gouge them for whatever we want! HA HA HA HA!
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Jul 10, 2009 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I wish any of these guys were mediocre
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 11, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One last thought
so out of all the really bad teams in the last 5 years that have made changes, are we still the only one that keeps getting worse?
The pirates are on the right track
The orioles have an amazing collection of talent
The Rays have blown up into a contender
The Mariners have put it together
We just keep getting shot to shit. Trying the same old dumb ass shit. I’m not doing it anymore. I am just as fine watching the other 29 teams as I am this team. I’ve spent my entire goddamned teenage and young adult life watching this shit show. I just dont know how long I can deal with this pathetic excuse of a GM anymore.
by wildthang on Jul 10, 2009 5:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tomorrow Dayton will sign Kenny Powers
by Soria's Unibrow on Jul 10, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn it
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2a8hu82&s=5
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kenny Powers is a fat Kyle Farnsworth with a mullet
So why do I hate Farnsworth and love Powers?
by Soria's Unibrow on Jul 10, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hate them both....
that abortion of a tv show even more than farns
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Esky
no way in hell that Trey knows how to spell or pronounce Yuniesky
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 5:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lou
As Brayan Pena huddles with Betancourt to tell him that it’s alright and that there are some Cuban sandwiches waiting for him in the locker room
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what's the Spanish phrase for
“Get a hit and you’ll get a free Cuban sandwich”
we need to motivate Esky here
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got 3 different translations for you
1. Obtener un éxito y tendrá un sándwich cubano libre
2. Consiga un hit y usted conseguirá un bocadillo cubano libre
3. Consiga un golpe y usted conseguirá un emparedado cubano libre
Hahah, the translators were all applying “free” to “Cuba” instead of “sandwich.”
It thought we were saying “Get a hit and you’ll get a sandwich from free/liberated Cuba”
by Soria's Unibrow on Jul 10, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just another example
of Moore’s desperate attempts to try to win now and win in the future, when he doesn’t have the organizational assets to do so.
Although Betencourt is bad, if he were to resume his 2007-08 form, he would upgrade the 09 Royals, albeit very slightly, because he would replace TPJ on the roster.
What’s the point, because we aren’t contending this year anyway?
I’d prefer he traded Cortes for a high upside shortstop on somebody else’s A ball team, gambling that he might hit it big, and risking that he would bust.
Not a fan of Cortes at all – because of the off field stuff, which may indicate lack of maturity and work ethic, and also because he seems to have regressed substantially to me this year – especially with his command. I actually trust the Royals judgement, if it is their judgement, that giving up Cortes won’t come back to haunt them. (I don’t think they would trade Cortes unless they are convinced he’s not going to be all that good)
That being said, Betencourt is a depressing acquisition. I think it means that Aviles probably won’t be rehabbed sufficiently to be ready for 2010, and/or that the injury was bad enough to preclude him ever being an effective defensive shortstop again. Makes sense, since the perception of him defensively in the organization, right or wrong, was that he was marginal to begin with.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on Jul 10, 2009 5:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ouch.
Geez. Sorry guys. And I thought we had it bad down in Atl.
"I bought a scratch-off ticket, but then I accidentally spilled some cortizone cream on it, so it did not need to be scratched."
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Jul 10, 2009 5:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just wait
GMDM is cooking up a trade involving Yunieski & Yunel as we speak
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Jul 10, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh God. I think I just threw up a little bit.
"I bought a scratch-off ticket, but then I accidentally spilled some cortizone cream on it, so it did not need to be scratched."
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Jul 10, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yunel was his backup
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, well in that case…
"I bought a scratch-off ticket, but then I accidentally spilled some cortizone cream on it, so it did not need to be scratched."
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Jul 10, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a M's fan believe me when I say I'm truly sorry.
Sometimes a M’s player get’s traded or leaves and then destroys the league but when you go from best defensive SS to one of the worst in a 3 span year and when he’s benched and doesn’t care saying he’ll change nothing… Oh dear… This is an exciting day for us but as for the Royals in the battle of Grass Creek “Exciting is hardly the word I would use.”
To Dayton Moore:
You got slurved!
Hehehe Mark Reynolds is so awesome.
by Slurvey on Jul 10, 2009 5:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So I guess we're buyers now
I cant wait to deal off Moose for Joe Beimel and Tyler Clippard
by wildthang on Jul 10, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
at least we have zack
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 5:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
with a lot of future failure i would
not be surprised to see zack demand a trade
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 10, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
traded for Francoeur and 6 prospects
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
JEFF FRANCOEUR HAS BEEN TRADED!
For Ryan Church. Thank fucking God.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 6:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We traded within our own division? Odd.
"I bought a scratch-off ticket, but then I accidentally spilled some cortizone cream on it, so it did not need to be scratched."
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Jul 10, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't knock it
Straight up. You guys won that one.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lol. So do you guys.
I know y’all been coveting him but its like they say, you snooze you lose. ;p
"I bought a scratch-off ticket, but then I accidentally spilled some cortizone cream on it, so it did not need to be scratched."
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Jul 10, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teahen to NY for Francoeur
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You scare me now
Teahen would be a nice add for the Mets.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 10, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cash update.
“Betancourt, earning $2 million this year, signed a four-year extension with the Mariners in 2007. It calls for $3 million in 2010 and $4 million in 2011 with a $6 million club option for 2012 with a $2 million buyout. The Mariners reportedly will kick in about $3 million in cash to cover the rest of his salary this season plus $2 million of his salary over the next two years.”
It doesn’t seem like the Ms are throwing in nearly enough.
by AJaha25 on Jul 10, 2009 6:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yea....they forgot a good player
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
not to mention a public apology
my “feud” with Jack Z. is no longer a joke. War is war.
this is an atrocity
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except when it's Dayton Moore and the Royals
Then WAR means, Weak Assed Retards. We seem to be acquiring a lot of those.
by AxDxMx on Jul 10, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm totally not going to lie
I have no idea who this guy is. I’m familiar with the name, but that is about it.
I’m sure I’ll grow to hate him though.
But with all of these former Mariners coming over, one must ask: HOW LONG UNTIL RICHIE SEXSON IS BRINGING SEXY (and strikeouts) BACK IN A ROYAL UNIFORM?
- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes
by JobDDT on Jul 10, 2009 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He's Shealy With
A huge contract.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 10, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If everything breaks just right
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by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's the Mariner's Berroa
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mariners'
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MIKE BLOWERS NOW!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 11, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW, Yuniesky's mentor in Seattle was
Jose Guillen.
Jose Guillen is matched up with two hitters through last year: Kevin McReynolds and Dusty Baker.
So Jose will either be a sour toad. Or manage a team to the World Series
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 6:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Screw you Dayton!!!
We may be the most pathetic franchise in the history of sports.
Yes, I'm still alive. Sorry to disappoint you.
by royaldaddy on Jul 10, 2009 6:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Oh, this will end well.
by Gopherballs on Jul 10, 2009 6:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is why we can't compete in this division or the major leagues
This trade is somewhere between horrible and God awful. Can it get any worse ?
by BlueBloodRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 6:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bob Davis on Esky
“A very outstanding defensive shortstop”
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 10, 2009 6:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
how do people come to that conclusion?!?!?!?!?
HES FAT AS FUCKING SHIT
by wildthang on Jul 10, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The sad thing
Is that he WAS. When he first came up, it was worth the price of the ticket just to watch him play. Comparisons with Omar Vizquel were warranted. If he’d progressed, comparisons with Ozzie Smith wouldn’t have been out of line. But then something happened. Nobody here knows what, or how to fix it. Maybe KC will be where the light goes on for him. I hope so, for his own sake, (and for yours). The natural talent is there, on the defensive side at least.
"Get offa my lawn!"
by Greybear on Jul 10, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UZR/150, 2005-present
2005: +2.1
2006: +0.7
2007: -1.4
2008: -12.7
2009: -18.0
I’m not sure which comparison is better: Vizquel or Ozzie.
During the same 2005-2009 period, Vizquel’s worst UZr/150 (as of now) was +5.6 in 2006… at 39 years old.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dayton Moore is a fucking idiot.
They would have given us Betancourt if we just offered to pay his salary for the next 2 years, and you still managed to find a way to give them dan cortes and some other pitcher? Are you shitting me? This is like Kyle Farnsworth all over again… WHO WERE YOU COMPETING AGAINST
-
by slayor on Jul 10, 2009 6:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nauseating KC star fluff job article up NOW
by slayor on Jul 10, 2009 7:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That is horrible --- I hope Bob Dutton threw up after writing that
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Jul 10, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dayton Moore:
"The bottom line is he’s an upgrade for our team today," general manager Dayton Moore said. "And based on other opportunities that we have evaluated for the next year or two, he’s an upgrade there as well.
Translation: I haven’t done a very good job with the minor leagues, so I’m going to put every chip I have into TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! because I fear for my job/life come October.
- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes
by JobDDT on Jul 10, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jose Guillen:
"For two minor-league pitchers?" said outfielder José Guillen, who spent 2007 with the Mariners. "Are you serious? How weird is that? I’m totally surprised. That’s all I can tell you. I’m shocked. That kid is pretty darn good."
Translation: (strikes out)
- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes
by JobDDT on Jul 10, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is all good -- he is turing it around
“It’s not anything we’re concerned about,” Moore said. “He actually began a rehab assignment two nights ago in Tacoma and was 1-for-2 with a double.”
Show how bad the Royals SS are.
“He’s a very talented player, we think he’s going to upgrade our team for today and the next couple of years,” Moore said.
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Jul 10, 2009 7:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well at least Frenchy isn't coming
traded to the Mets for Ryan Church…..
by Gload on Jul 10, 2009 7:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the deadline's still weeks away
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously thought this trade was a joke.
Whats all the comments about Cortes’ “off the field” stuff? Peeing? What?
by Wily Mo Pena on Jul 10, 2009 7:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I feel for you guys, I do.
Want to join me on the Pirates bandwagon?
Beyond the Boxscore Not a member? Sign up.
by Sky Kalkman on Jul 10, 2009 7:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i hate you
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I AM FINISHED WITH DAYTON!
Let’s trade 2 prospects for ANOTHER guy who can’t walk or field! I think those are the only people Dayton covets. ("What does he covet, Clarice? He covets what he sees every day.) I am not going to say that Cortes and Saito were going to be stars or anything, but they at least had a shot to be plusses for this team at some point. Betancourt does not!
What is the record for the lowest team OBP in the expansion era? Open up a spot in the trophy case!
Wave the white flag in the battle of Grass Creek.
I am waiting for the Royals to make this even worse by sending down the wrong Pena. (Hey we need that ninth inning defense once every 3 games.
Is it safe?
by KHAZAD on Jul 10, 2009 7:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Can't walk and field- I love the way those were juxtaposed
It just conjures up a mental image of some blonde, trying to field and chew bubble gum at the same time and failing miserably at both
by sterlingice on Jul 10, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't think it was possible for the Royals to acquire a guy
That both decreased our OBA and our defense…yet here we are.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 11, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ladies and gentlemen
the Dayton Moore era!
by wildthang on Jul 11, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad I've been painting my kitchen all day
This makes me want to cry. The Royals are going to be a laughingstock for years to come.
At least the moron didn’t trade Billy Butler for him.
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken us?
I’m officially ready to give up. This organization has nowhere to go but down.
As a sidenote, if Dayton keeps acquiring these stellar below 0 WAR players, we are going to have a serious experiment on our hands to see if WAR actually holds up to reality.
by AxDxMx on Jul 10, 2009 7:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Butler is the chip the Mets want...
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by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we have Luis Castillo for Butler?
Pretty please? Or better yet, Sheffield?
by AxDxMx on Jul 10, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Frenchy
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by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The really sad part is that this does upgrade the hitting at SS
and frees up Willie Boom Boom to roam elsewhere on the diamond. I still hate this move and feel like I want to throw up.
by AxDxMx on Jul 10, 2009 8:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it's a great deal.
Being the 4th best pitching prospect in the system is like being the world’s tallest midget. We got a league average (maybe slightly below) SS at age 27 in exchange for a B prospect and a C prospect. Do you fuckos want to watch TPJ and TPJJ trot out there when the Groundskeeper needs a day off? Jesus, the cynicism is reaching intolerable levels.
Turning Kool-Aid to Jesus Juice since 2009.
by Discodave on Jul 10, 2009 8:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Northern League Average
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by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the second-worst player in baseball according to Bradford is "maybe slightly below" average?
We’re only cynics because our team keeps making horrible moves.
I think that MLBTR bit about Moore being under pressure to win as many games as possible this year is turning out to be spot on. What else explains this? We’re going to get maybe an extra win or two from the guy this year — over what we were sending out there.
But that ignores the opportunity cost of locking up the SS spot with a guy who is 27 and thus “peaking” at atrocious, and oh yeah, we’re going to be paying him for the next three years, too.
The roster spot this sucks away is way more valuable than the upgrade at short will be. Is it that difficult to grasp?
by awolfson on Jul 10, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
What roster spot?
We have no SS and our closest SS is realistically 2-3 years away. So trading away a throw-in from the Macdougal trade and an 18th rounder makes DMGM retarded? I would give up Moustakus just to release TPJ from the roster. BTW, grasp these!
Turning Kool-Aid to Jesus Juice since 2009.
by Discodave on Jul 10, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Retarded was your word.
If we want to contend in the future, roster spots will be valuable. We can’t just hand them away to replacement-level players who are making significant money for the forseeable future.
What if we wanted to acquire an actual good SS in the offseason? Where are we going to put him now?
by awolfson on Jul 10, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was kinda holding out hope we'd sign Bobby Crosby this winter
Yea, his bat sucks (although he draws walks now and then and still has some pop) but the kid can pick it.
Betancourt will be our shortstop for the next three years. He will play every day, no matter how shitty he is. Opportunity cost is huge here. I can’t believe people think this is good because “its better than Pena”. What high standards we have now.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 11, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd
…because this basically sums up my thoughts on the Betancourt trade too.
I was at work when the trade first showed up on my google news feed, and my immediate, uncensored thought was, “Trading a guy with serious upside for an ass-lickingly awful shortstop…Dayton Moore has finally become Allard Baird.”
Of course, this trade is nowhere near as devastating as the Dye-Perez deal, which was and is the worst trade in franchise history. But if Cortes lives up to his potential as a #2/3 SP, this trade will go down as a real screw-up for the boys in blue.
by DarthYoshi on Jul 10, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
secret to winning more games
acquire terrible players
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yuni will be missed
But probably only by me.
by yuniform on Jul 10, 2009 8:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Fitting this move in with my previous analogy about trading Soria:
Soria is the $5000 set of rims on the 1987 Ford Tempo that is the current roster. The POS leaks oil, the transmission slips, and it gets horrible gas mileage, but the ladies love those spinners!
Sure, we could sell the rims and put the return towards a newer, more reliable used car, but instead we’re hoping to hang onto the rims (and the Taurus) until late 2011 / early 2012 when we might get a upgraded vehicle from a relative for free. At which point the Hos will love showing off those rims!
The TPJ/TPJJ/Tugger/2009Aviles ball of suck represents the 8-track player in that Tempo. The Royals just upgraded to a cassette tape player — and they paid to do it.
by Top Ramen on Jul 10, 2009 9:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't care how logical you make it
Soria is my favorite player. I would fucking RIOT if we traded him.
- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes
by JobDDT on Jul 10, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did I make this reference before you did
or did I steal it from you? I have no clue, but said a very similar thing.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
by Warden11 on Jul 10, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know -- I used it a few weeks ago
I don’t think I’d read anything similar
by Top Ramen on Jul 10, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here was mine:
Soria is like owning a $100,000 car while living in the country with nothing but gravel roads in the area. It’s awesome to show off to friends, but doesn’t have a lot of use (at this moment).
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
by Warden11 on Jul 10, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can’t believe nobody’s mentioned this juicy bit from Dayton:
His on-base percentage is something that’s lacking, but he’s a career .279 hitter.
by awolfson on Jul 10, 2009 9:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I feel really bad for you all right now.
Except for devil_fingers
(just joking buddy)
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Jul 10, 2009 9:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe Dayton Moore thought he was getting Sandoval
two chubby guys
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by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It could be worse
You could be getting Frenchy.
Ok, I guess that’s not much of a consolation.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.
GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Jul 10, 2009 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's still time
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by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, you guys are fucking pathetic
Seriously? we have the worst hitting SS in MLB, and we acquire a guy who can atleast hit .250 and have the Mariners paying his enitre salary this year, half his salary next year and a million for 2011
Like Mike Aviles and his 22 walks in 539 play appearances was the answer with worse defendse than Betancourt..
And if any of you haven’t noticed, Cortes will never even sniff the Royals. We have 4 pitchers signed this year AND THE NEXT TWO in greinke/meche/bannister/hochevar with Crow waiting to join in September 2010.
Cortes has no value as a Royal. Betancourt does. I don’t care if he has – WAR when our current SS is -10,000 WAR
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 10, 2009 10:42 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
We would be better off playing Bloomquist at short everyday
Then we don’t give up any chips, regardless of whether they will ever make to the big leagues or not.
Anyone mention that we have now acquired 3 IFers from the M’s over since last winter?
New question (only serious because the current situation is tragically real): Would the Royals be better moving Teahen to SS than having Betancourt? His defense would be awful, but so is Yuni’s. And he would have a decent bat. What say you?
by BrRoyal on Jul 10, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, you guys are fucking pathetic
We bitch about Pena, so when that problem is solved, we bitch about the solution. Look at the pitching depth Moore has created in the minors. He has 7 or 8 quality arms that can be used in the rotation in 2-3 years. Cortes isnt expected to be anything more than reliever. How many stud pitchers play for three organizations before they reach AAA ball? Shortstops are not cheap, and we have no alternatives in the minors for a few years. Betancourt is young, affordable and NOT Tony Pena.
It’s ironic that in the winter, Royals fans hated the Bloomquist signing, but now you guys want him to start.
Good trade Moore!!!
by chjohn on Jul 10, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is solved by a below average hitter and fielder?
I hope so, but put me on the skeptical side.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
by Warden11 on Jul 10, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's great that so many of Dayton Moore's relatives read and post here
I’ll simply repeat Top Ramen’s recitation from above:
Skinner: ahh, but as it turns out the lizards were a godsend since they’ve eaten all the pigeons.
Lisa: Isn’t that a little short sighted, what happens when we’re up to our ears with lizards?
Skinner: Ah, well we shall simply release wave after wave of Chinese needles snakes.
Lisa: then what about the snakes?
Skinner: We simply import gorillas who will eat all the snakes.
Lisa: Well what happens when we’re up to our ears in gorilla’s!
Skinner: Ah that’s the beauty of the thing, come winter the gorillas will freeze to death.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
This system was so depleted when DM took over. It doesnt happen over night in MLB and they are taking good steps to get better, and my freaking god, anyone that bitches about this is freaking off their rocker. TPJ has been a lightening rod for how long. He hits a bucj and slightly abover average with th e glove. Now they go get a SS for two minor leaguers that may NEVER see the bigs and you people want to bitch and moan all damn day about it. This club is better today than it was yesterday because of this move.
by Minty on Jul 11, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
but the club in 2011 is much likely worse b/c of this move
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there are no guarantees that either of those two pitchers ever sniff the bigs. they could blow out tomorrow. YB may also stink up but he wont be as bad as TPJ. DM has stated that pitching is the currency in baseball , that includes aquiring pitching and using pitching to aquire.
by Minty on Jul 11, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well...then, lets trade moose, hos and duffy for johnny damon
b/c theres no guarantee that those guys see the majors either and he makes our team better today
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your right there are no guarantees that they will make it to KC. A difference though is KC drafted those guys and Cortes was already traded once for freaking macdougal. If DM thought he was a key piece for the future Im sure he would have kept him.
by Minty on Jul 11, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait...a player sucks b/c KC DIDNT draft him?
surely good players never get traded before making the big leagues…
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
did you read my comment at all or the last two for that matter?
Pitchingf is currency that means you use to pitch and/or to get other pieces. I agreed that there are no guarantees that those three would make KC and didnt say that KC drafting them was the difference but that it was a difference. Point being the White Sox had moved him already also and that if DM that he was THAT important Im sure he would have kept him. I think what is getting lost here is that this trade involved three guys that bottom line wont be a front line piece for anyone that is going to win much of anything. My thought is that Royals are better todat than yesterday w/ this trade and w/ the draft they just completed. (assuming they get them, all signed)
by Minty on Jul 11, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that those two guys wont be missed. (meant to add this on before posting)
by Minty on Jul 11, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im sure the red sox thought this about jeff bagwell....
and detroit about john smoltz
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we traded guys who probably wont be a front line piece...
but one who is VERY likely to contribute to the major league team….for a guy who MIGHT make us a game better than Bloomy for the rest of the season
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I feel that VERY likely is a bit more than I thought he would
by Minty on Jul 11, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know, TPJ only has 47 PAs this year in 45 games
It’s not like he starts there every day. And he’ll probably stay on the team because he is better at defense than Betancourt. So now we have another SS that can’t field or hit! GREAT!
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes and Olivo has made it to first base as many times aftera passed ball when striking out as TPJ has hits. 4
by Minty on Jul 11, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great.
My point is, he’s not even playing that much. We’re not replacing him.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tpj isnt really even a problem on this team....
its the fact that we have two guys as bad or worse than him on the team the entire year….
if our management thinks its imperative to have a defensive replacement at SS, then fine…he’s being used fine….its when you have tug, tpj and tpjj on the roster all at the same time that it becomes a problem.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree w/ that whole heartedly. having a def replacement IS fine but not three of the same guy, if you are trying to win
by Minty on Jul 11, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but we just gave up significant value for someone who wont be better than bloomy
who would fit in perfectly after two more games when gordon is back and teahen’s in LF
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they release him they will be replacing him. The fact that he is even on the roster is bad enough and helps to explain some of how the Royals are where they are. He shouldnt be on the roster.
by Minty on Jul 11, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
betancourt has about as much of an argument to be on a roster as pena does....
at least pena does something well
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with you there. He has a decent glove and hits .250 or better. He’s much better than TPJ or the other two you mention.
by Minty on Jul 11, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he doesnt have a decent glove though....
tpj has an above average glove….betancourt has one of the worst in the league
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meche and Bloom both seem to think he has a good glove based on their comments today
by Minty on Jul 11, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did have a good glove when Meche played in Seattle
He’s gotten fat and slow and doesn’t care now.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
over/under on number of mariners games that duo has seen this year....
4
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are being decent teammates
it’s not their job to criticize a guy they have to work with
Remember when Meche said Bloomquist was another Pedroia?
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They won't do it.
I agree he shouldn’t be there, but I bet he is still on the roster post All Star Break.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think he will be, not with this trade and having Bloom. Never know though, more moves likely
by Minty on Jul 11, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes it's so sad that Dayton Moore was stuck with TPJ by the previous regime
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and there were NO other options
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHA
Okay, raise your hands, how many people here WANT Willie Bloomquist as a starter on this team?
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on Jul 11, 2009 2:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how long until you change your mind about this trade like the jacobs trade?
this one is far worse than the jacobs trade….its not even in the same ballpark
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you on crack?
Jacobs is the worst DH in MLB…he’s so horrible we should release him and I’d laugh if he ever received another $ from playing “professional” baseball again.
We also gave up our best reliever for him too. Cortes isn’t even good. His BB/K rate is horrible. And if you haven’t noticed we have 4 of our 5 starting pitchers locked up for the next two and a half years. Plus we drafted Crow to join them in a year or so as our 5th starter.
We basically traded ABSOLUTE SHIT for a stuggling SS who once was considered an up and coming player
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cortes is absolute shit?
You just lost any credibility you had.
He isn’t the star prospect he was last year, but he is still a good one.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 11, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah that's harsh no doubt
but he doesn’t have any value to us because our rotation is set with one spot open in the next two years
Most likely Crow takes it with Duffy/Melville/Montgomery in waiting
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps we could trade him a player that has talent.
Any talent whatsoever
by BrRoyal on Jul 11, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so to add, if it was one of those pitchers
I would be on here right behind you all flipping out like crazy. But I don’t see Cortes with any upside anymore and if he even makes the Majors it will be AFTER Betancourt is finisehd as a Royal in 2012
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By your logic
We should have traded Moose.
I mean, he won’t contribute until after Betancourt has finished his stink job in 2012. So it doesn’t matter what he becomes.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 11, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't want him in the first place
I wanted Bumgarner. SF is a perennial playoff contender for the next 5 years once he gets to the majors and pairs with lincecum
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
jacobs was once considered an up and coming player....
and betancourt is the worst starting SS in the majors…what the hell is the difference
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great plan for winning
“Let’s improve our ballclub by getting rid of the historically worst shortstop in baseball, and get the second worst active starting shortstop in baseball!”
CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 11, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m guessing you would have offered TPJ to the Yanks for A-Rod and not understood why they laughed at you and hung up.
by Minty on Jul 11, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure all the GMs in the game have their assistants on strict orders
to ALWAYS put Dayton Moore through or wake them up when he calls. It’s like winning the lottery.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
If it takes 2 recs to change these things green,
I’ll gladly be the 2nd one.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
by Warden11 on Jul 11, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it does now
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Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am absolutely convinced you are Dayton Moore
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or a GFYC
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
by Warden11 on Jul 11, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't understand why you guys are so pathetic
All you do is bitch about every move. I want Moore fired as much as anyone on this board because the Jacobs/Coco trades backfired and cost us TWO QUALITY MLB RELIEVERS.
But we just got Freel and Betancourt for free. And we have other teams paying their salary.
Maybe you guys should back up and think for once instead of bitching ABOUT EVERYTHING. You can’t complain that TPJ is on the roster when we acquired a SS who hit .300 before. You can’t complain about Maier and his .232 OBP over the last month and then bitch that we acquired Freel for nothing
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If someone gave me a bag of shit for FREE, I would turn it down
He was not FREE. He cost 2 decent pitching prospects, and he’s barely better than what we had. Freel isn’t FREE yet either, there is the matter of the PTBNL.
This quote from royals.com does intrigue me though:
Betancourt, earning $2 million this year, signed a four-year extension with the Mariners in 2007. The deal calls for $3 million in 2010 and $4 million in 2011, with a $6 million club option for 2012 and a $2 million buyout. The Mariners reportedly will kick in about $3 million in cash to cover the rest of his salary this season, plus $2 million of his salary over the next two years.
So he’s free this year, and essentially the Mariners kick in $2M so we can pay for his buyout after 2011. Definitely not FREE.
The other thing this does is push a logjam onto 2nd base and the outfield. Bloomquist, Callaspo at 2nd, Freel, Bloomy, Teahen, DDJ, Guillen in the OF. Or maybe Trey will man up and start playing Guillen as the DH against lefties. I’m guessing there will be another trade, and I’m guessing Teahen is gone. He’s far too productive for this team.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know, when I posted in this thread earlier, I was tempted to say “cue GobbleforCyoung coming to say that this is a good trade for the Royals.” But I decided not to because I thought it would be mean to assume that he’s going to be on the wrong side of every issue and that he’d defend a horrible, indefensible trade. And then he did it. Amazingly predictable.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 11, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
more predictable than him coming on here and apologizing for it mid august
when were 5 weeks into yuni doing his best berroa impersonation?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i don't apolgize
but i’ll admit when i’m wrong. And I try to remain positive and see the good side.
I realize KC is horrible place to live with ridiculously pessimistic and horrible people. I can conclude that truth from this board. But when we acqure someone who was once good (2005, 2006 & second half of 2007) for NOTHING then you are prettty stupid for going ape shit over this.
We didn’t surrender Nunez or Ram Ram in this trade. Oh, and by the way, two different GM’s and two different coaches started this guy OVER BLOOMY for the last 3 years so obviously others think he’s an upgrade over Bloomy
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the problem is that it is now 2009.
But when we acqure someone who was once good (2005, 2006 & second half of 2007)
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
by Warden11 on Jul 11, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
betancourt has NEVER been an average baseball player....NEVER
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He wasn't good in 2006 with a plus UZR?
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1.7 WAR
2.0 is about average…and that is his best season
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 12, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See it's people like you all who make it hard to be a KC fan
I’m not sure I want to root for this team anymore
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gobble I hope you are right and this trade is great
But on the surface it completely stinks.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure I want to root for this team anymore, either
But it has more to do with my loss of hope in competing than in negativity by the fans. I came into this season hopeful, positive, as many of the fans on this board were—while you now accuse us of only bitching. Well, any bitching before the season seems validated by the team’s performance, and moves like this have about 0.1% chance of helping.
by BrRoyal on Jul 11, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just joshin' you, dude.
A huge contrarian like you actually gives a really valuable perspective on stuff like this – the blog wouldn’t be as interesting or worthwhile if everyone agreed all the time.
by Decatur on Jul 11, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Believe it or not
Bloomquist and Aviles are BOTH better than Yuni defensively. With Yuni and Bert we basically have the worst defensive middle infield in baseball.
Is it safe?
by KHAZAD on Jul 11, 2009 3:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we basically STILL have the worst….now it’s just by more
by benfunke on Jul 12, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not a relative
I just choose to look at the bright side of a trade instead of automatically trashing it. We needed a SS, and we got one. Even if he hits .240 with a .280 obp, it is an improvement.
Beggars cant be choosers, which is a shitty philosophy, but one you have to have as a Royals fan. Calling Cortes our top pitching prospect is like someone claiming to be the tallest midget.
by chjohn on Jul 10, 2009 11:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what's the point of acquiring a 280 obp when you're 13 games out....
and giving up one of your better prospects to do it?
the ONLY way this makes any sense, is if Dayton thinks he might get fired this season and is trying to get to that magical 73rd win
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cortes is not a better prospect
“Experts” have said he has command issues and would probably end up in the bullpen eventually
If you have a better solution for a SS, I’d love to hear it.
Bloomquist, I presume?
by chjohn on Jul 10, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats a horrible horrible way to condcut business
its mostly likely the Dayton’s methodology.
We gave up 12 years of control of two pitchers to PAY MONEY FOR A SS WHO IS WORSE THAN BELOW AVERAGE. HIS TALENT LEVEL BELONGS IN THE MINOR LEAGUES OR OUT OF BASEBALL. AND WE WILLFULLY GAVE UP TOP PLAYERS IN OUR SYSTEM TO DO IT. AND WE ARE PAYING MORE THAN THE MINIMUM TO DO IT.
Cortes has command issues, and some off the field issues, but hes just 22 years old. Hes got a lot of talent, and I recall just a few years ago a lot of comparisons and debates over who had the brighter future between Cortes and Cahill.
Its idiotic. It is not difficult to say that Dayton Moore is the worst GM in the game.
The problem is, Daytons moves are becoming increasingly poor. Its like he was sent here on a mission to just give a big giant middle finger to royals fans.
And believe it or not, we actually do have a decent farm system, and I have this feeling that its less and less Moore’s moves that have gotten us to that point and more someone elses. Cortes was among the best of our young arms.
Hopefully Arbuckle sees this willful destruction of a roster and recommends to Glass to can Moore. Until Moore is gone, we will not see an improvement in this franchise. Its sad to declare something we had so much hope in a failure, but its the truth. That is where we are.
by wildthang on Jul 10, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its a stretch to say that we have a decent farm system when all of our top guys are in A ball....
and our only two hitting prospects (non kila) division are struggling mightily….it is improved, but i’d still put it at below average at this point.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
I know its worrying but Hosmer and Moustakas will be fine. And the pitchers may be A ball guys, but there is plenty of talent to go around there.
Its at least average on the strength of some top flight guys like Hosmer Moose and Crow, and the pitching depth in the lower minors probably pushes it up more.
by wildthang on Jul 10, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moustakas and Wilmington
They were talking about this on the radio this morning. Wilmington is one of the hardest places to hit in all of baseball. Most players struggle there and hit much better in AA.
by chjohn on Jul 10, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and check Mous lately
He’s heating up as well as Giavotella
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
by 306008 on Jul 11, 2009 7:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moore pitchers are better than Cortes
Moore has drafted guys who will be better than Cortes in a few years. He is 22 years old and is already in his third organization before reaching AAA ball? How many good major league starters can make that claim? In the end, guys like Crow, Melville,.Montgomery, Wood, Gutierrez and a a few others will make a bigger impact than Cortes ever would.
Maybe I am just excited that Pena will either be released or benched. Maybe my excitement will be tempered in a few days. I am clearly in the minority on this deal. I was holding out hope that we would move a pitcher for Jason Donald, but I guess that wont be happening now. Other than that, we’d have to get a SS through free agency, and I doubt that would happen either. Maybe Glass has ordered Moore to stop spending money, which means no free agent SS?
by chjohn on Jul 10, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he ordered Moore to stop spending money...
…so Moore responded by acquiring a replacement level player who’s guaranteed $7M over the next three years, even counting the $2M the Mariners are throwing in?
that sounds about right
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by devil_fingers on Jul 10, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its almost hard to believe at this point
how many more players are there in the big leagues like Jacobs, Guillen, and Betancourt that he can legitimately target?
Francouer is off the table which just killedDayton.
by wildthang on Jul 11, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's still several weeks until the trade deadline
and the Mets needs a 1B. A perfect time to pull the trigger on the Butler-Frenchy trade he’s been itching to make.
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey, he's never played there
do we know how much experience he has in LF at Fenway?
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well if thats what we want
we could hook up with Boston on a deal for Mark Kotsay.
by wildthang on Jul 11, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
book it
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why are we not breaking down Epsteins door
and offering a blank check for this guy?
by wildthang on Jul 11, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that happens,
I’ll troll the shit out of every post you write. Just warning you, too many jokes about that one.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
by Warden11 on Jul 11, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's 22 and in AA
Thats perfectly acceptable. He was a good prospect whether or not you choose to believe it. Just because he didn’t or does not have future ace status doesn’t mean he couldn’t be a quality big leaguer, and above replacement. Which is more than Betancourt can claim.
I don’t understand the hatefest for Pena. Sure hes a bad player but I think people are going to be begging for Pena after Betancourt’s time in KC is over.
by wildthang on Jul 10, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you run your club worried about the length of control you have on your players you are destined to fail.
by Minty on Jul 11, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I assume you are in the
Mariners won the Erik Bedard trade camp.
by wildthang on Jul 11, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is either A-plus irony
or a terrible question.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on Jul 11, 2009 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was being 100% facetious
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A-plus for you! :)
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on Jul 11, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if the Mariners win their division they won that trade
they also traded nothing but shit (Putz) for Guttuirez who is looking like Adam Jones’ twin
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That trade was a steal. It netted one Jack Zduriencik for the Mariners.
by Decatur on Jul 11, 2009 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hate you all
revenage soon
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or even "revenge"
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Revenage sounds so much more terrifying.
It sounds like some awful torture used in the dungeons of medieval France.
by Decatur on Jul 11, 2009 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that STILL might not make up for tiillman and jones
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it doesnt matter what we do at SS this year....
you dont give up ANYTHING to get guys like betancourt…the same way you dont give up anything for TPJ…those are guys that you can get for absolutely nothing….below replacement level guys. Even if neither Saito nor Cortes ever see the major leagues, this trade will likely be a loss.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HE has ZERO value for the Royals
ZERO. Do NYROyals, Warden, AX not understand that???
When you have 10 pitchers in MLB and the minors better than Cortes he has NO VALUE.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently he had some value if he brought back a SS
He was our Minor League Pitcher of the Year last year. He was one of the MOST valuable in the system. Since when does having depth in the MLB rotation mean your younger talent is completely expendable? If that’s the case, I’ve got to imagine Clay Bucholz in Boston is begging for a trade as he’s been stuck behind everyone there. Yet, I guarantee Boston doesn’t trade him for spare parts.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not everyone likes Sickels
but last fall he had COrtes as the Royals #4 prospect overall, and #1 pitching prospect
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my take
on what dm’s thought process was-he desperately wants to show continued improvement in the team’s won/loss record, saw the chance to upgrade at the position, and made the deal.
when a trade is nearly universally panned like this, it has to make you think that there’s something to that. i do think he will be a significant upgrade over what we’ve currently got, but the price was way too high.
what i don’t understand, is that this is the same person who was able to make the bannister and callaspo deals-how does he make one that seems to be as lopsided as this?
i really would like to understand his thought process-what other options is/was he considering, and why was this determined to be the superior choice?
i will give him credit for one thing, i think he also wants to demonstrate to the players and the general fan that they are not giving up on the season. i don’t think that’s the best way to go necessarily, but i think that’s got to be part of his line of thinking.
i also honestly wonder how much of this has to do with all of the negative fan and media reaction to TPJ, and feeling pressure to address the situation?
Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jul 10, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, and i will also add
that this move is really starting to make me question if DM’s the guy. i’m still holding out hope, because i fear that we’ll take like 5 steps backwards if he gets fired and we’ll be back to the allard baird days of $1,000 signing bonuses.
Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jul 10, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1000 bonuses cost us 1000....
dayton costs us millions and a good pitching prospect
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 10, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not our millions, though
i still believe that they’re doing things the right way with spending heavily in the draft and LA, but whether or not he’s doing THAT right is the big question.
Hos and Moose aren’t looking so great right now…
Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jul 10, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Anything that DM likes is highly questionable at this point
We are through the looking glass here people!
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the Money flow the Royals have, they should have a higher payroll anyway, not woriied about a couple million to a SS that is nigth and day better than what we have right now. Esp considering our SS from last year is out for a year or more.
by Minty on Jul 11, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DM's not the guy
I got really worried that he might not be the guy this offseason, but I was still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. This move proves he isn’t. A small market team needs a better than average GM. Moore has now proven that he isn’t even average.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 11, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm glad to hear you say it
Welcome to the dark side.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
where ya been?
kid taking up lots of time?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
remember
she bats lefty, throws righty
pitches lefty
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to mention
Willie Ballgame can do what the new guy will do. Oh, and we’re already paying him a couple million.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
by Warden11 on Jul 10, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once the Royals sign Crow
he instantly becomes the #1 pitching prospect anyway.
by jbrocato on Jul 11, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great! So let's get rid of the others. We obviously don't need them.
Especially when we can acquire a terd for SS. Bloomy is better at SS. Why couldn’t we roll with him?
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Take
Is a little more optimistic than most, but not by much…
I don’t think that we gave up the farm today by any stretch. DO I think that in a perfect world, we could have got more for Cortez? Absolutely, but this world ain’t perfect.
I’m HOPING that GMDM’s logic in trading Cortez was that he was on the precipice of potentially losing a lot of value. In a repeat season of AA… a) had off the field issues, and b) his numbers dramatically fell. I think there is a decent chance that Cortez was traded at the right time to maximize return.
I know we’d like to think that since he was a #3/4 rated prospect in our organization, we should be able to get a major piece back. Well, you have to remember that being 3rd/4th ranked in a shitty MiLB system isn’t like being #3/4 in a good system, and while GMDM has the depths of MiLB getting stronger, the top is still for shit.
A Beat Writer for Seattle as interviewed on the radio in KC shorty after the trade. I’m not taking what he says as gospel by any means, but his description of Yuni was DEAD FUCKING ON with our medias description of Angel post ’03. To Paraphrase…“Yuni is a guy that should have never been given along term deal so early. He gave the appearance to the fans right after he signed the deal that he stopped working as hard as he did his RC season, and they turned on him big time. He was constantly being booed every time up to the plate, and he reacted negatively to it. Yuni is the consummate player that SHOULD benefit from a change of scenery.”
I definitely think that this is a move that SHOULD be questioned by GMDM, but I do not think that we set the franchise back 5 years today, like some of you are acting.
This is the list of potential SS Free Agents this coming off-season…(MLBTR.com)
Orlando Cabrera (35)
Alex Cora (34)
Craig Counsell (39)
Bobby Crosby (30)
Adam Everett (33)
Chris Gomez (39)
Alex Gonzalez (32) – $6MM mutual option with a $500K buyout
Khalil Greene (30)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (34)
John McDonald (35)
Marco Scutaro (34)
Miguel Tejada (36)
Omar Vizquel (43)
Jack Wilson (32) – $8.4MM club option with a $600K buyout
I don’t see a long term solution in that mess.
This is the Potential list for ‘11 (Cot’s)
Alex Gonzalez CIN
Christian Guzman WAS
J.J. Hardy MIL
Omar Infante ATL *
Cesar Izturis BAL
Derek Jeter NYY
Julio Lugo BOS *
Jhonny Peralta CLE *
Edgar Renteria SF
Jose Reyes NYM *
Jimmy Rollins PHI *
Ramon Santiago DET
Ramon Vazquez PIT
Jack Wilson PIT
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Jul 11, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Next year?
Or even in 2011?
He’s having a nice year, but he is about a year too old to be in AA if I am not mistaken…
At any rate, I don’t really think he is a sure thing at this point, and he sure isn’t a sure thing for anything sooner than midway through ’11.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Jul 11, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And doesn't he still project more at 2B w/ his glove?
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Jul 11, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his ARL is fine
and I don’t know about his glove though. It wouldn’t take much though from him to be better than Betancourt right now.
by wildthang on Jul 11, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUT HOW IS HIS LATERAL MOVEMENT?????
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
what matters most is his fielding percentage
by wildthang on Jul 11, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not ready to say Bianchi will/wont
be a MLB SS, nor that he will/won’t be here by 2011.
What I will say is if he is, our best case scenario at that point would be if Yuni has a couple of seasons akin to his RC year and has some intrinsic trade value again, so he can be moved to clear space for Bianchi.
I think we’d agree that Bianchi will NOT be ready next year, so at worst, we’ll have a below league average, yet better than what we had SS for the rest of ’09 & all of ’10 (with Aviles also there to potentially aleviate playing time if Yuni is gawd awful next year), and a piece (or 2, again if you count Aviles) to trade to a team that is desperate for a SS, like we were to make room for Bianchi if applicable.
I think I just repeated myself like 4 times, but I’m tired, sorry
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Jul 11, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bianchi hasnt hit in two years
might be ready by the time Betancourt leaves.
by chjohn on Jul 11, 2009 12:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he'll be ready by 2017?
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bianchi has hit this year
and he doesn’t need to be a superstar, just being a decent hitter and decent fielder makes him among top half of SS in baseball.
by wildthang on Jul 11, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasn't drafted by Dayton Moore
If he keeps this up, he can look forward to being traded for Jarrod Washburn, Garrett Anderson, or Diory Hernandez
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why not shoot for the moon
lets get Oscar Salazar and call in Ismael Valdez
by wildthang on Jul 11, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take Washburn....
isn’t he having a really good under the radar season?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
by 306008 on Jul 11, 2009 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's decent
but he’s a FA under the season. He’s sort of like Banny. But his ERA overrates him because he’s pitching in front of a historically great outfield defense
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cjohn, your attempts to find a bright side in this trade have failed
I’m a realist. I work hard to see the bad and good wherever they are. There is no good in this trade. None. The Royals traded a good prospect and a minor prospect for a very bad shortstop. This player is a bad fielder and a bad hitter. He has no redeeming qualities as a baseball player. I wish he did. He doesn’t. And it’s pretty clear that he’s going to be the Royals everyday starting SS for the next 2-3 years (at least).
Look at this trade realistically and you’ll see that it really, really sucks. I can understand you wanting to convince yourself that there is a positive here, but there is not.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 11, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
NY
what happens to lover-boy-TPJ?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
by 306008 on Jul 11, 2009 7:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he should be the setup guy
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dayton Moore, who is the better player?
Player A: .250/.350/.450, 25 HR, 70 RBI, 5 SB, 1 CS, $427K (1 year) (2B)
Player B: .275/.310/.360, 5 HR, 20 RBI, 10 SB, 5 CS, $3.3M annually over three years (2B)
Something tells me he would choose Player B every time. And I understand these players are difficult to obtain, but Moore’s obtained plenty of ’em. And given them much more than they are worth. And granted them all too extensive playing time.
What a joke of a position player talent evaluator Moore is.
by Royals Nation on Jul 11, 2009 1:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, it's a microcosm of a Dayton Moore move
Sadly, his draft picks have yielded sickly returns as well, although it’s still early. Moose and Hosmer are being bypassed almost daily….one has whiffed 60+ times in 220 at-bats in Low-A Ball and the other has posted a sub-.300 OBP for weeks now. It’s disgusting. I don’t trust Moore when it comes to evaluating position players…..at all.
He’s also proven quite shitty in the realm of pitchers, recently, as well (specifically, Tomko, Ponson, HoRam, Farnsworth….) And we granted significant time/money to many of them.
The Willie Bloomquists and Tony Pena Juniors and Mike Jacobses and Miguel Olivos and Yuniesky Betancourts and Jose Guillens and Joey Gathrights and Ross Gloads and Jason LaRues have clearly been among his worst acquisitions, though.
by Royals Nation on Jul 11, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you
I just thought maybe I was missing something. I don’t think Dayton would pass on the 25 homer guy. But the line should read more like .245/.300/.400
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn it, that's a long list of bad acquisitions.
The Willie Bloomquists and Tony Pena Juniors and Mike Jacobses and Miguel Olivos and Yuniesky Betancourts and Jose Guillens and Joey Gathrights and Ross Gloads and Jason LaRues have clearly been among his worst acquisitions, though.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
by Warden11 on Jul 11, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the salaries that we paid those players was extensive
In some cases, so were the players surrendered (Cortes, possibly Cordier, Nunez, Howell….)
And I believe he has made two sensible position player acquisitions at the big-league level since taking helm over three years ago. Alberto Callaspo….and Covelli Crisp (which, in hindsight, is a move I actually would support….despite the injury).
by Royals Nation on Jul 11, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and has anyone noticed a striking resemblance among the players listed above?
Their batting averages are – for the most part – quite respectable to good throughout the course of their career. It’s called Moneyball, Dayton. Read it.
by Royals Nation on Jul 11, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess you covered your comment with the "for the most part" line,
but TPJ does not have a respectable offensive stat.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
by Warden11 on Jul 11, 2009 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd settle for him acting on his comments earlier in the year
“OBP is important”
Actions are louder than words, Mr. Moore.
I wonder if Dayton is of the “OBP goes up if a player gets more hits” school.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's so utterly sad that people in high-ranking professions such as Moore's
(and perhaps a number of other non-sports related businesses) are so dogmatic and rigid in their approach to advancing their study and netting the best results from their product. If Dayton Moore (and perhaps other members of the front office) actually devoted time and effort into studying more modern methods and analysis…their product would be that much greater. All it really takes is an open mind.
It’s simply unbelievable that such dogma exists in baseball……a sport in which we all love.
by Royals Nation on Jul 11, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bloomy and Olivo haven't been bad acquisitions for us.
Gathright. Yes.
TPJ. Yes.
Jacobs. Not good.
Batencourt. Just got the guy. No idea. He needs a change.
Gload. Better than anyone wants to admit. You’d take him over Jacobs, wouldn’t you?
LaRue? Yes.
Bloomy? Good pickup for us.
Olivo? I wish he DH’d and wasn’t a full time starter, but he’s been a good offensive pickup.
And a good fighter.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
by 306008 on Jul 11, 2009 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can you have no idea on Betancourt?
His performances the last few years are there in black and white for everyone to see. He’s 27, with a bad work ethic. He isn’t going to suddenly become good.
And I disagree on Olivo. He is having a career season, and OPSing .761. And a hollow OPS at that, because it is all SLG.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 11, 2009 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correction: He had a career month
8 homers in a month will do that for a guy.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that 2nd guy should have more rbis
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A .310 OBP?
That’s higher than any player DM has ever acquired. He must play for the Twins.
by jsolo on Jul 11, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bert....always forgotten
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who only got a chance to play because Gordon got hurt
I’m sure DM only traded for him because he doesn’t strikeout a lot. That’s the type of “scouting” stat that someone of his ilk would look at rather than OBP
by jsolo on Jul 11, 2009 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he played for the Twins
He could also execute a sacrifice bunt, hit the cutoff man, make routine plays, not fuck up on the basepaths, execute a hit and run, not overrun balls in the outfield….
And I’m not particularly a fan of small-ball, but if we’re going to acquire the Tony Penas and Yuniesky Betancourts of the world……non-offensive players, basically, they must actually be good at all if not most of the previous parts. This isn’t even close to a “gritty” (by its “textbook” definition) ballclub. Angels? Twins? Dayton’s in a category seemingly all by himself (or maybe the Nationals, I’m not sure). Oh, never mind, they acquired Nick Johnson and Adam Dunn and Elijah Dukes and….
by Royals Nation on Jul 11, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
quit being so negative.
Open your mind to giving a new player a chance. Please, let’s make this a YB discussion, not a bash GMDM. Start a new thread for that.
We already need an overflow.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
by 306008 on Jul 11, 2009 7:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is it bad that i have ranys website open and am refreshing every 60 seconds?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 1:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rany has probably collapsed in shock
We might not see a post from him in awhile…
by jsolo on Jul 11, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well if he got banned for a day for posting something about the training staff
This time he’ll be banned for life.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
banned....
and then hired as the next gm
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it shows that you've been hanging around me too much
you’re the guy who actually played college baseball! You’re a bartender! now you’re turning into a nerd like me.
Trust me, enjoy your youth.
My "objective’ post is coming on DM pretty soon.
More of a fanpost will come here later tonight or tomorrow, if anyone cares.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ha ha....
i’ve got a long weekend ahead of me…..some nonsense halloween in july party for a girl i know tomorrow and that will last until morning time…then i gotta wake up to drink before my 4 and 5:00 coed beer league softball games on sunday
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
'Enjoy your youth'
It doesn’t get better as you get older. In fact it only gets worse.
(Notice the lack of sarcasm font.)
by jsolo on Jul 11, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dayton Moore really does have no clue how to build an offense
I mean, he really does. Remember my column from a couple years ago? I’m not trying to make myself look like a pompous ass….I’ve gotten many, many, many things wrong since I joined RR (2006, I believe). However, that analysis there was painfully….painfully…correct.
RR, I really liked your post above, but I’ll respond to it here. It’s like someone is playing a round of “Can You Top This?” Each moment grows more utterly painful as a Royals fan, but it keeps manifesting in much more creative and unexpected ways. What hellish occurrance will happen next? Will it be a trade? Embarrassing quote? Misplay? Event? The life of a Royals fan has actually not been boring at all….if you are demonic.
by Royals Nation on Jul 11, 2009 1:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can top this
DM decides to trade Teahen or some more ML pitching talent for Felix Pie, because Freel and DDJ can’t play CF.
He’s sporting the impressive line: .234/.299/.355
Those look like Dayton Moore numbers to me. If I were the Orioles I would be on the phone to Moore right this moment.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pie might still have potential....
and by all accounts is a good defensive player……
id much rather have traded cortes for pie
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I’m not sure off the top of my head what the right deal for pie would be, but he’s a good guy to try to get on the cheap
he’s only 24
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he might be endy v 2.0
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The O's seem to like him as a 4th OF, though
He was one of their GMs players as a Cub.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
by NHZ on Jul 11, 2009 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TPJ was young once too
Pie is TPJ in CF. Or maybe even a better fielding version of Gathright. I don’t get the fascination with him.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 3:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's never hit in the majors, true
but he’s only 24, and 406 PA over 3 seasons is still a really small sample size.
As far as the TPJ comparison goes, TPJ never had a .700 OPS in the minors, whereas Pie did hit in the minors, and was almost always young for his league.
Scouts love(d) the guy, too.
He could be a decent 4th OF right now for most teams — I really think that’s his downside. Buy low.
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 4:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the o's seem to value defense in the OF so they might really like him
at least pre arb as a 4th OF
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 4:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
obviously
they don’t know the Bravest Bavasiest way to build a baseball team
Scott and Reimold are good defenders, too, but Pie’s probably the only guy who can backup CF
Then again, they Os need a 1B after Huff leaves…
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kila for Pie or Butler for Pie
either way, we lose.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Butler would be a bad idea
I don’t think I’d do Kila, but it wouldn’t be the end of the world
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pie's 2007 in Iowa looks great
But his 2008 in Iowa looks horrible comparitively, and probably doesn’t translate to much in MLE. I guess I wouldn’t be terribly upset to acquire him with the hope that he could look like the 2007 version, but I wouldn’t trust the Royals to bring that out of him.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not sure if I'd do it
but it’s worth noting that Kila’s still a question mark, too. And Pie is a year younger and is a good defender at CF.
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kila's a question mark still,
will he always be? It sure looks like it.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
by Warden11 on Jul 11, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't wait for the Rays to find out the answer
Dayton Moore is like “that girl” in college. You don’t think Friedman has heard Jack Z. and Larry Beinfest talking about what it’s like?
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Omar Minaya is licking his lips
Now that he has the ultimate trade chip in his possession.
That’s right, Omar Minaya (!!!) thinks he can take Dayton to the cleaners.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 11, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this will be more pathetic than a hypothetical slap fight between me and NYRoyal
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is NO WAY we ever compete under this ungodly General Manager
At this point….I would just like some accountability in this organization. Unfortunately, we still have very little.
by Royals Nation on Jul 11, 2009 1:34 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Give Scott Pioli a month
and I’m almost positive he could do a better job.
by wildthang on Jul 11, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Derrick Ladnier was canned!
obviously, he was the problem
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I give up
I’ve been a staunch GMDM supporter from the get go.
I agreed with most of his moves.
I had just talked myself into the idea that Willie Ballgame wouldn’t be such a bad everyday SS.
But this kills it.
There is no justifying this at all.
Two players, both with tremendous upside traded for a guy with none.
GMDM should be a teams scouting director…but not a teams GM.
I refuse to set up a signature....DAMMIT
by RoyalPug on Jul 11, 2009 2:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
neither player had tremendous upside
Saito might get to MLB as a reliver LOOGy….
As for Dan, numbers on the downturn, wasn’t going to do crap with our organization. Needed to move on. Maybe he’s been traded twice for a reason that we haven’t been able to see?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
by 306008 on Jul 11, 2009 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He wasn't considered a prospect before
We got lucky when we traded MacDougal for Tyler Lumsden and Cortes. So now Dayton has turned MacDougal into Yuniesky Betancourt and Jordan Parraz. I like the Parraz part at least.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This can't be a justification
I thought of the same thing the other night, but the Royals aren’t yet in a position to give away any ML-potential talent, even if they stumbled across it. I know that minor league pitching is starting to become a position of strength, but you just can’t give up the highest-level to the majors pitching prospect for a player who isn’t worth it.
Yeah, it was a stupid screen name.
by CentralChamps2009 on Jul 12, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh no, I wasn't justifying it.
though in hindsight, that does seem like what I was doing. And MacDougal for Betancourt is a lot more palatable than the trade he tried to make of Butler for Betancourt. Anyways, I still think acquiring Yuni was a mistake.
by AxDxMx on Jul 12, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cant believe this hasn't been said...
Nothing from Nothing leads to... Your 2009 Kansas City Royals
by averagegatsby on Jul 11, 2009 2:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
GMDM "building an offense"
Yuny (forget spelling it, no one with the Royals will ever pronounce the whole name, he’s Yuny or possibly “Betty”, and somehow Hillman will figure out a way to call him “Jim”) is not a good offensive player, but, well, he doesn’t have to be, if GMDM actually followed the “philosophy” of building his lineup he claims to have—offense at the corners, defense up the middle, and strong pitching. If Moore actually improved the offense at the corners (he hasn’t) and improved the pitching (he generally has), then I don’t actually mind having less productive offensive players up the middle (well, not TPJ unproductive, but not incredibly productive). The problem here, however, is that Betty is also not a good defensive player, either. So, while he has the benefit of not being TPJ (who’s sole redeeming factor was that he was not Angel Berroa), he 1) would not be an improvement for 29 other teams, and 2) he doesn’t fit in with Moore’s professed philosophy for building a roster. It’s a move that reeks of desperation for a team that simply does not have to be desperate—this is a lost season, so use it to figure out what you have and make deals that make the future better and fit in with the “philosophy.”
Sorry, Dayton, but the benefit of the d