After Bizarre Betancourt Trade, There's Little Goodwill Left For Dayton Moore
by royalsreview on Jul 11, 2009 11:00 AM EDT
161 comments
Remember a few days ago when the Royals acquired Ryan Freel for no reason and it felt like the Royals had reached a definitive turning point? Apparently, that was only the moment when the Jack Nicholson character gets killed in this version of The Departed.
The response to the trade for Yuniesky Betancourt has been nearly entirely damning, and this might stand out as the moment when even non-stathead fans and writers finally begin to seriously question Dayton Moore. There really aren't many regular players who are capable of posting a sub .300 OBP, but Dayton Moore keeps finding them.
- Mariners Dump Yuniesky Betancourt On Royals - Beyond the Box Score
- Royals Trade for Yuniesky Betancourt | FanGraphs Baseball
- Yuniesky Betancourt, A Rather Harsh Analysis
- Royals add Betancourt, save season - SweetSpot by Rob Neyer - ESPN
- Worst. Joke. EVER. (Yuniesky Betancourt is a Royal.) - Royal Blues
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For the moment, Dayton Moore has officially lost my support
This doesn’t mean it can’t be regained. But for now, I am no longer on board with the Moore regime.
GMDM has consistently proven himself to be a substantially below-average evaluator of non-pitching talent who places little to no importance on OBP, much less more advanced statistical measures. Were it not for the Greinke extension, Moore’s last offseason can accurately be termed a disaster. Crisp is out for the year. Cruz and Farnsworth have been terrible money sinks (though a lot of people, myself included, approved of the Cruz signing at the time). Mike Jacobs’s OPS is sub-700, his OPS+ is an embarrassing 83. Olivo has been hitting the ball hard, but his OBP is still down from its already abysmally low level in 2008.
The Betancourt trade represents the straw that broke the camel’s back, and not simply because Betancourt sucks. When grading Moore prior to the beginning of this offseason, I jokingly gave him an “A” in the “Not Allard Baird” category, but I also felt there was some germ of truth to that—Moore had taken big strides in restoring credibility to the Royals organization. Based on initial reactions in the baseball and blogging worlds, it looks like the Betancourt trade will undo some of that credibility. Cortes/Saito for Betancourt is very much a trade Allard Baird would have done—it is that nonsensical of a deal for the Royals. And I would be loathe to see our franchise return to the status of the AL’s number one laughingstock.
A caveat—I know a lot of people have said that Moore has been under great pressure to win as many games as possible this year. That does not excuse this trade. There are better trades to make that do not mortgage the Royals’ future quite so dramatically. And if Moore was directed to acquire Betancourt in particular, than honestly, Moore should have considered resigning, since he took the job if and only if he would be given a free reign in player personnel (plus, this trade is going to follow him around like a rash, especially if Cortes pans out).
This trade feels a lot like the Dye-for-Perez trade in that nobody in the stats/baseball media world has come out and said anything other than this was a horrendous deal for the Royals. And for that (along with the fact that Betancourt is an overpaid giant ball of suck with work ethic and coachability issues…again, he’s like the second coming of Neifi Perez), Dayton Moore finally has lost my support. I gave him a B-/C+ at the beginning of the year. He gets a D now, at best.
by DarthYoshi on Jul 11, 2009 11:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't feel like your being too harsh on him - Moore is ambsolutly horrible GM and should be fired
I never understood why GM’s/coaches on awful teams get free passes. This is for all sports too. I keep on reading that Jim Schwartz would be considered a hero if he wins 1 game as the Detroit Lions head coach this year. Thats ridiculous. Detroit went 8-8 in 2007…..if he wins 1 game he should be fired because that team added lots of talent. I feel the same way for the Royals. Their payroll has skyrocketed and what do they have to show for it? But atleast this trade he didn’t give up ANYTHING for him and have the Mariners paying a good part of his salary.
I look at it similar to I view the war on Iraq. It’s wrong, it’s unjustifiable.Many lives have been lost. I was offically against it halfway through it’s progression, but I’ll never not support the troops just because the US administration/generals are pieces of shit.
Likewise, I’ll root for Betancourt now that he is a Royal. I won’t hate on him. But moore is a piece of shit
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You say that about Moore, but you trust his judgment on Betancourt?
You are one strange fellow.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he has a little upside
and he can hit .290. What our SS combine OBP.this year???? .220
It gets a little crazy when 95% are just flipping out and bitching bitching bitching bitching bitching
When every day All i read is bitching bitching bitching bitching bitching about TPJ. Well he’s gone now. Man, Shut the fuck up already.
His former teammates are saying nothign but good things about him. And we acquired him with his entire salary paid for pretty much the next year and half for a pitcher that walks as many batters as he strikes out and pisses in public?
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you were a former teammate, how would you respond?
“Yikes. Our GM is less than awesome.”
Or
“The guy has talent, but he really doesn’t perform.”
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 11, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We bitch about TPJ as a wasted roster spot
He was not our starting SS. Bloomy is better than this guy.
Here’s the mindboggling part (thanks to Joe Posnanski):
The Royals have now acquired four — count them FOUR — players off the 2005 Seattle Mariners. They’ve got Meche, Bloomquist, Miguel Olivo and Betancourt. It’s like they are trying to rebuild that 69-93 team brick-by-brick. Call Richie Sexson’s agent!
If that team was that bad, then why are we acquiring players from it? I’ll admit that you can have decent players on a team and have a bad record, but we seem to be re-assembling the WHOLE team.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget about Horatio Ramirez and Jose Guillen. They weren't on THAT team...
…but I think you get my point
I hope you die. I hope we BOTH die.
by BRKLN M'S on Jul 12, 2009 5:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"He didn't give up anything for him"???
Yeah, one of the top five prospects in our farm system doesn’t count as “anything.”
And while I’m relieved (for lack of a better term) that the M’s are eating a significant portion of Betancourt’s salary, he’ll still be overpaid by the Royals. This year, Betancourt has been hitting and fielding at replacement level or worse. Based on production, he should be making six figures, not seven.
I don’t think I’m being too harsh on Moore either, but your take on the trade is curious.
by DarthYoshi on Jul 11, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well the trade is curious
and we aren’t talking about a guy like Bumgarner or Alderson ripping up AA
Cortes just pissed on a fence is old for AA now and can’t strike out more people than walk at that level. We also have 4/5’s of our rotation locked up for the next 2.5 years and Crow is waiting to take that fifth spot. Melville/Montgomery also have more upside than Cortes.
Cortes has fallen hard. He is repeating a level in which he first struck out 109 guys and walked 55 in 116 innings. This year he’s walked 50 people in 80 innings and only struck out 57. There are red flags all over this kid. If he ever becomes an average MLB starter I’d be shocked.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How come it takes 57 posts before you articulate your case well?
I still don’t agree with you, but at least I can see what you are thinking.
As for peeing on a fence? You’re saying you’ve never been drunk and walking home and peed in someone’s yard, or on a fence? Come on, college aged kids do that all the time. I know I did it a few in my day. At least it wasn’t a DUI, or worse.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahahah nice - it was more like 7 and i finally sobered up that's why
And it was more the frustrated with the outrageous hate.
Look, i see the flaws in Betancourt. Am I holding out hope he becomes an above average SS again like in 2006?. Yeah, I am. And if he gets back to hitting for his career average he’s an above average player for us. I like Poz’s piece but I don’t agree with the notion that Betancourt never reaching his potential a certainty. He has a chance and that’s what this is about. I like the move and I like the Freel move. Desperate? Sure. BUt not tragically affected our team like Jacobs/Crisp and decimating our young bullpen in the process.
If this was Melville, Crow, Montgomery or Duffy being traded I would be right in line with all of you callling for Moore’s head. That is our pitching future core. Cortes was not part of it because of his on the field and off the field struggles. We really have some nice young arms in the low minors. It’s obviously our strengh as our two supposedly elite HS hitters are struggling. I don’t see a problem jettisoning Cortes for a SS (who has been bad no question) but has a chance to turn it around.
We have 4 better prospects than Cortes and Betancourt can be better than Bloomquist (06-08) Seattle Managment started him over Bloomy and so will the Royals.
Lets see the kid on the field for us first before we crucify him. Hey if he starts off the 2nd half of the season hitting .290 and Freel can get on base at a .350 clip I’m happy
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cortes will very likely be more valuale than leo nunez
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Freel was acquired for no reason?
He’s been good so far. And even if he has a .235 OBP over the next month it will be better than Maier
Anything to get that loser out of the lineup is a + (June 6th – July 7 Maier’s OBP has been lower than .230)
How come he gets a free pass?
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't. What other option was there?
The OF should be Teahen, DDJ, Guillen, or Bloomy. Injuries have forced Teahen elsewhere and with Gordon coming back, we didn’t have much longer to wait to return to that.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea
with gordon coming back soon, teahen should be in the OF
and MM is probably better than Freel at this point
by royalsreview on Jul 11, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And even if he's the same as Freel
why not just play the guy in his 20s and find out?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off what basis
Freel has a career .355 OBP?
I don’t understand. He appears to be healthy. Maier has had an OBP of .230 his last month
???
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i keep thinking MM is good defensively in CF
which may not be true…
by royalsreview on Jul 11, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
too small a sample size to tell yet
TotalZone’s projections (from minor league stats) had him at +1 — so average. His UZR/150 in CF so far is +6.2. He went down after a couple bad weeks, but he’s up again. His rep was good, so we’ll see.
Now, back to my Jack Hannahan trade analysis…
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On second thought, I guess we won't see
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, at least Francouer is...
off the table as he got traded to the Mets.
by stlfan on Jul 11, 2009 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nothing stopping the mets from accepting DM's offer of Billy Butler and Banny for Failcouer
/kidding
//i hope
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 11, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paradox:
When you think you need to make moves to save your job, you end making moves that cost you your job.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 11, 2009 11:38 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
THESE PRETZELS ARE MAKING ME THIRSTY!!!
by Top Ramen on Jul 11, 2009 11:41 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Where's Rany on this one?
I feel like suing the Royals for chilling Rany’s exercise of his right to free speech.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 11, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think he's doing what he talked about in the last one
Where he has to sit on anything scathing for a night so as to not post in anger
I know I did
by sterlingice on Jul 11, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We'll see what happens with Rany
My guess is he will still tear into this trade, no matter what amount of time elapses.
I will say that I waited for a night before saying I jumped off the Moore bandwagon. Sleeping on it didn’t make me feel less bitter about the trade; in some ways, I felt more bitter because the initial “this has to be some kind of cruel joke” shock had worn off.
by DarthYoshi on Jul 11, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Poz's article is brilliantly structured- at least the first half
- I like the “I wasn’t going to think about baseball paragraph” followed by some “here, I’m not thinking about baseball paragraphs” where he goes on a tangent or two too long, but it’s ok.
- Then it’s “hey, there could be a silver lining because I’m JoePo” which is always refreshing for a little bit.
- Then some stats and a sinking feeling
- The some more stats and a more sinking feeling
- Then the bombshell: “Shortstop he best compares to at age 27: Neifi Perez.”
And that’s when I felt the chill up my spine
by sterlingice on Jul 11, 2009 12:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
(I haven't read the second half yet- I'm still contemplating things)
Even my wife said “Oh, I remember that name. That’s bad”
by sterlingice on Jul 11, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not sure he touches on the biggest problem, and maybe because it's a *little* speculative:
this guy will be the starter for quite some time.
Seriously, if he were cheap and the royals planned to use him for the remainder of the year, it wouldn’t be such a big deal. It still would be a little questionable due to giving up an actual prospect.
But it’s the money and likelihood of substantial playing time for more than 4 months on top of the suck that makes this one baffle.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 11, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he was pretty clear about that
“But that’s not the big point … the big point is that the Royals are now stuck with Yuniesky Betancourt at shortstop. From my view here in a St. Louis hotel room, they are stuck hoping that he will mobilize talent he almost certainly doesn’t have. They are stuck believing that they really didn’t have a choice — they needed a shortstop. They are stuck one more time with another team’s problem … Seattle was so eager to get this guy off the books they offered to pay almost half of his remaining salary — not for this year but for the WHOLE CONTRACT.”
by sterlingice on Jul 11, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, it's in there;
but he doesn’t say how long they are stuck or how much money it will cost. i’m probably nit-picking a LOT; i may be starting to resemble RR in that i keep hoping Poz will write a “DM doesn’t get it and shouldn’t have the job post”.
But he’s probably smart to stay out of pissing contests with the GM.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 11, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and this makes Rany's last post look prophetic.
Once again, hoping established players are better than their track record shows.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
by Warden11 on Jul 11, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! more Neifi
Betencourts new nickname
Neifi 2 !!!
soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 11, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I prefer Berroa09
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice
soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 11, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did see Yenesky a couple months ago play
I really am trying to be opptomistic, but seeing STATS DAMN
soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 11, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neifi 4.1
Neifi 2.0 was Berroa
Neifi 3.0 was TPJ
Neifi 4.0 was Aviles (Damn injury)
Neifi 4.1 is Yuni. Hopefully a patch before a new and better version is brought to our attention.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
by Warden11 on Jul 11, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comparing Aviles to Neifi is pretty unfair
Aviles was injured pretty drastically, and actually had a track record of hitting the ball well before that. He deserves a pass.
by DarthYoshi on Jul 11, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
One thing about Aviles
If you look at EqBRR without the steals portion, he was one of teh best baserunners in baseball last season, and it was actually the one thing he was doing well so far this season.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True.
But with his injury this year, we’re probably never going to find out.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
by Warden11 on Jul 11, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This makes me really sad
I like Mike
by kcbottom9th on Jul 11, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Dayton Rules
— Baird Guy, Minor League Breakout, Awesome MVP level performance in majors, 2 horrible inury-influenced months next season: out of baseball
— Former Mariner/Brave, older prospect, was once thought of as good, good defensive reptuation, multiple horrible years in majors: CORNERSTONE
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's really sad is that Aviles's emergence kept this trade at bay last year
And now his injury necessitated it in Dayton’s mind.
by AxDxMx on Jul 11, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and also
if this was a trade made last year I wouldn’t be for it at all (that’s taking into account Betancourt not being as bad either)
Only because Cortes was looking like a good prospect. It’s a huge red flag when you repeat a level and struggle. Remember Chris Lubanksi???
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are righting off a guy
Based on half a season of moderate struggle at the most demanding level of the minors?
You are bat shit crazy.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 11, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What? you mean writing off?
Well the level wasn’t too difficult for him last year was it? Do you see Cortes as one of 4th best minor league pitchers?
No, I’m suggesting that this trade would not have happened if Cortes was progressing the way he should and therefore his “prospect appeal” has dwindled
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course it dwindled
But you have written him off as a prospect entirely. Which is ridiculous. He is a still a good one, as a power reliever at the very least.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 11, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He might not ever make it to MLB
Is he the next Rosa then?
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm trying to be objective here
he either repeats AA again next year or gets to AAA and struggles. Is his BB/K rate going to improve at AAA?? No
So if he can progress he’s going to need 2.5 years of development in the minors.
So if he is going to “help” the Mariners he won’t sniff the big leagues until Betancourt’s contract is up in 2012
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no upside
Your GM is a fool. There is no upside to getting Yunitard. The Royals have been fleeced. The M’s would have taken a jar of George Brett pine tar, a Dan Quisenberry jock strap, and PAID OFF his contract for you to take him. But the fools the Royals are, offered up at least one major league arm for him. IDIOTS! If I were a Royals fan, I would sell all my tickets, burn all my ‘royal blue’ gear, and become a staunch Cardinals fan. Obviously your front office has no interest in fielding anything resembling a baseball team. Yuni will do NOTHING in KC. He won’t even be in the major leagues next year. Trust me.
Can’t wait to see Greinke on a real team in the near future!
by Balentienforcer on Jul 11, 2009 1:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If you were a royals fan,
you would never become a cards fan. That’s out of the question. Maybe the Rangers, or something.
That last line was uncalled for.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 11, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd because we don't want to be Morans!!
soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 11, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zack Will Be
On a “real team” in the near future. He’s not going anywhere.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 11, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I were a Royals fan.....
I would be sitting in my trailer wishing I knew what it was like to be a fan of a Major League baseball team. And being very very sad.
by Balentienforcer on Jul 11, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh i get it, flaming;
welp, see ya later.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 11, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dear sir,
kindly fuck off.
Sincerely,
Me
by DarthYoshi on Jul 11, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea dickface
You’ll be waiting 4 years or you might even die before you see Greinke wearing anything other than Blue
The kid is strange and said the only team he’d play for other than the Royals would be the Rays (scary thought)
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We aren't all lucky enough to have a team like the Mariners...
who nearly lost 100 games with a 100 million dollar pay role.
You are so very correct thank you for putting things into perspective…
Oh and Ichiro is overrated.
Nothing from Nothing leads to... Your 2009 Kansas City Royals
by averagegatsby on Jul 11, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I were a Mariners fan
I would be sitting on top of a skyscraper, about to kill myself watching Adam Jones tear it up for the Orioles while you pray Bedard can reach 50 IP this season. Since, according to you, all Royals fans live in trailers, I’ll go ahead and assume all Seattle Mariners fans will eventually commit suicide.
And the Mariners will pack their bags along with him, their offseason plans — at least the major ones — finally complete. Mariners general manager Bill Bavasi gave up plenty to acquire Bedard, including outfield super-prospect Adam Jones, left-handed reliever George Sherrill and minor-league pitchers Chris Tillman, Cam Mickolio and Tony Butler.
Yeah, your GM is a model to us all!
by I need more Esteban on Jul 11, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well played...
But poorly researched. The Mariners PREVIOUS GM (Bavasi) made the horrible deal for Bedard. Our NEW GM fleeced the Mets and Indians in the Putz deal, and now the Royals for Yunitard. (and he just gave a batting glove to the A’s for Hannahan). I truly hope the Royals can find some competence in the front office eventually…I really do.
(Suicide season doesn’t start till October….but thanks for the concern)
by Balentienforcer on Jul 11, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True but you help my argument too
We had a a previous GM make some horrible trades (Allard Baird) and then we got a new GM that looked great at first, sound familiar? Could easily be your team’s fate when it’s all said and done.
Either way, those were still your players that left your team, so no matter who the GM is now, that has to hurt.
by I need more Esteban on Jul 11, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
except
I have to defend the Mariners here. Jack Z has upside due to openess to innovation and new developments suitable to the current century. Let’s call him Gallileo.
In the meantime, we have a GMDM that has ZERO upside because he is not open to any new ideas. Let’s call him The Pope of the Dark Ages and the flat earth centric universe.
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Jul 11, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bedard trade won't be bad if the Mariners make the playoffs
Who knows how good Tillman will be.
Bedard has been hurt that’s the stinker
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anger and hatred
for that Bedard deal is all M’s fans felt for Bavasi, once we learned that Bedard was LESS than advertised (I’m not going to go into all of that on your blog). Yeah, it stings to watch Jones et. al. make good in Balt. But the pain has been lessened by (what appears to be) a new competent GM in Jackie Z. ………Seems one-fifth of the Royals are Mariner castoffs from our darkest days. I’m sorry, but what your GM has done is quickly becoming the laughingstock of baseball (like the M’s were during the Bavasi years).
Maybe we’ll go to hell in a handbasket (again) – but at least we are making the appearance that we’re trying.
by Balentienforcer on Jul 11, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's been awesome this year though
Look at the Jacobs/Crisp deals our GM did
Genius!
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont forget the betancourt deal
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or HoRam
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or farnsworth
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or guillen
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or mahay
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I could...
…un-rec this one. Mr/Ms Balentienforcer clearly wasn’t really a KCR fan to begin with. – TL
by timlacy on Jul 11, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gonna assume balentienforcer is an M's fan
because his name is derived from that of a mariner’s player…
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 11, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, on the plus side
we are all on the same page in regards to Moore now.
by Gopherballs on Jul 11, 2009 2:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No we're not.
I’m going to post on this below to explain why.
by timlacy on Jul 11, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Mother Russia
Baseball players trade you!
soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 14, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know we've all been waiting for it
Rany’s rage is up
by sterlingice on Jul 11, 2009 2:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Excerpts are fun
“There are some trades that look lopsided at first glance, but then you look at it from different angles, you start talking to people inside the game, and you start to think, okay, it’s a bad deal, but I can understand the team’s rationale. This is not one of those trades. This is a trade that makes you more and more dumbfounded the more you contemplate it. It’s like a defective Magic Eye poster.”
by sterlingice on Jul 11, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't even read it - it's like a comiplation of nasty RR posts
I don’t understand why everyone is saying Cortes is a top 5 prospect RIGHT NOW. In 2008 yeah. In the beginning of 2009? Maybe. But halfway through this season??? No way. His stats are worse across the board.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that's your hangup, consider this:
I’m fairly certain Rany would have the same reaction if the Royals had sent a PTBNL. $7 mil for below average (and about to decline) performance is pretty awful.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 11, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not true
Is Betancourt a better option than the Bloomy/TPJ/Herandez triumverate at SS?
Yes he is.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see how that assertion is backed up
Particularly when lined up against Bloomquist
by sterlingice on Jul 11, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well Bloomy vs Betancourt is Bloomy this year
but I was factoring in Aviles/TPJ/Herndandez stats.
For some reason Bloomy can’t play SS every day…and he’s needed as a utility player at 2B, OF, etc.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're judging cortes based entirely off of a half of a season....
why can we not do the same with bloomy. Maybe THIS is the real bloomy. Hell, you’re writing off 3 years of suck for betancourt, hoping he’ll find some magic beans and turn into a legitimate mlb ss. I’ve never seen such flawed logic. You’re simply arguing the wrong side so that people will argue with you.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, see- after hearing about this yesterday and reading
I thought he was more like Berroa than Neifi. Rany went down that line while JoePo went for Neifi. Either way, it’s just not a pretty picture.
I guess the last shoe to fall is that I’m curious to hear Soren on Monday and then the “therapy” will be complete and I will have reached the “acceptance” stage.
by sterlingice on Jul 11, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I loved Rany, but...
…he’s gone off the deep end. Step away from the computer, my friend. – TL
by timlacy on Jul 11, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, tho
This is one of those maddening moves. It just takes over the mind for a day or two. I realize if I had something pressing like kids to worry about or a sick relative, this isn’t at all on my radar. But, as it’s just another work week and I’m trying to chill at home, prior to going into work tonight, it overwhelms the senses to think about.
by sterlingice on Jul 11, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you just have to relax man
I’m not playing devils advocate because it’s fun. Maybe part of me is because this board needs some balance.
Cortes won’t ever be more than an average MLB reliever. He’s taken a step back this year repeating a level. That’s a huge red flag, whether you agree or not about his prospect status. Remember he’s not going to be on a MLB team for two years plus, if ever.
Also, the Mariners are paying half the guys salary. Lets just see if the guy can turn it around. His former teammates are saying interesting things about him. Bloomquist is losing his position and still says something positive.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still haven't figured out the repeating thing
there’s not anything in the 2008 stats that says “this guy should repeat AA”
We should have started with the Omaha Royals this year. And he likely would have been passable up there, since there’s nothing worth peeing on in Nebraska.
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 11, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What else were they going to say? He's a lazy bum?
And we are still paying this guy $5m. Or 60% of his obscene contract.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 11, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cortes might (in your expert opinion) become an average mlb reliever....
betancourt will NOT become an average shortstop
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 11, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not just that
It’s so personal with him now (for good reason)
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where is it writtent that
Hillman has to play this guy?
by Coach Feb on Jul 11, 2009 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's not.
I’m assuming it though, because Hillman said he was an upgrade and he’s being paid $7 million dollars for the next couple years.
If he performs horribly, they may stop playing him after awhile. But then they eat the contract and the money precludes other, helpful moves.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 11, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jillman
Said it was an upgrade and he “has nice defensive stats”.
He really did. Honestly.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 11, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the soft "J" of Jillman
Nothing from Nothing leads to... Your 2009 Kansas City Royals
by averagegatsby on Jul 11, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
justice for Jack
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Jul 11, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he'll bat him 2nd
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 11, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yuniesky Betancourt:279 batting average::
Mike Jacobs:32 home runs
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Where's the perspective here?
Oh wait, I forgot, this is Royals Review—-where every…single…thing is judged to be the end of the world.
Yuniesky Betancourt is a stopgap. Period. Give Moore a break. YB has more talent than our near-MLB shortstops. Yes, he’s undisciplined. I suspect his range has been hampered recently by his injury.
There’s no way that Moore sees YB as THE SOLUTION. This is a reflection of how bad our minor league system is and how terrible the trade market is for a small-market team looking for a decent shortstop.
Cortes by all accounts wasn’t the same pitcher this year as the guy who had risen through the ranks to make the publications as a top flight prospect. Since Moore and his team are good judges of pitching talent (you can concede this, right), then it’s likely they know something we don’t.
Again, YB is just a stopgap maneuver with some upside dependent on the forthcoming change of scenery.
So, step away from the cliff, folks, and your computer. YB won’t be the end of Moore. And YB’s success or failure with us was apparently a low-risk move in light of the organization’s pitching development and our dearth of shortstop talent. YB will likely end up a back up for us by late next year or 2011. – TL
by timlacy on Jul 11, 2009 3:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
since when did you sign your stopgaps for 2 1/2 years?
and since when do we pay $5M for a backup without it being ridiculous?
it’s bad enough that the Jose Guillen deal has fucked this team over, as Jose is toast now, and probably not bouncing back in 2010. All for $12M.
And Jose is Esky’s mentor
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 11, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A 2/12 year
8 times minimum salary, 35th best defensive SS, -0.8 WAR in the majors stopgap?
Or another type?
by kcbottom9th on Jul 11, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he's had some...
…bad numbers in last few years. Apparently injury has played some role in this. …Despite the major league minimum, have you looked at the salaries recently for back ups with major league experience?
Also, why aren’t people assuming that Bloomquist might know something about YB, and that WB was consulted about this? – TL
by timlacy on Jul 11, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm relieved
it’s not that his terrible, his ability to play baseball has just been completely hampered by injury the past two seasons.
verdict reversed
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely...
Our trainers should have this fixed in no time
Nothing from Nothing leads to... Your 2009 Kansas City Royals
by averagegatsby on Jul 11, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're right, then Moore doesn't understand cost.
Stopgaps don’t come at this price for this many years.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 11, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
97 hitters are qualified for the AL Batting title right now
Betancourt is 95th amongst them in OBP
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 11, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My only response to this is...
…that YB is a shortstop—-a position not traditionally expected to generate power and offense. You just have to be average and passable. I expect that KC will concentrate on getting him back up to speed defensively then begin to chip away at offensive deficiencies. – TL
by timlacy on Jul 11, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And even a .310 OBP for a SS is acceptable
So with Betancourt on board as an everyday SS:
Bloomquist can fill a utility role in the infield and oufield
Teahen has a permanent spot backing up Gordon AND PLAYING FIRST
This is straight from Hillman and Moore. If you can read between the lines THIS TRADE ENABLES US TO NEVER SEE PENA, MAIER AGAIN, AND JACOBS RARELY.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yuniesky is the one regular player worse than Jacobs offensively
and a .310 OBP is only acceptable on this team. It sucks everywhere else
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 11, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"never seen TPJ again"
Cf. Hernanedez, Luis; Bloomquist, Willie; acquisitions of
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AL players: .264/.335/ .426
AL Shortstops: .267/.322/.378
KC Royals: .251/.311/ .400
Yuniesky: .250/.278/.330
the only huge gap is in power. Shortstops around the league aren’t specialists in .300 career OBPs like Yuniesky is.
Yuniesky is slow, grounds into double plays, has a record of not taking advice, doesn’t practice when he’s not playing, is way too casual
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 11, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah he has to get back in shape
plus we have Guillen and Jacobs to GIDP
But seriously wasn’t Guillen such a cancer before he came to KC? Except for getting mad at fans booing him, he’s been pretty good character wise
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guillen before KC
Punching holes in walls (Cincinnati)
HGH deliveries to the Coliseum (Oakland 2003)
Throwing his helmet at Mike Scoscia after being pinch hit for (Anaheim 2004)
the guy is a clubhouse cancer whose career was revived by PEDs
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 11, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know
I’m saying he’s been ok with us
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
other than
nearly getting into a fight with Bob McClure.
Guillen is probably thinking he is too banged up to adequately throw a hissyfit
Same reason why he doesn’t swing at as many bad pitches
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 11, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather he go back on GH and throw helmets
and actually, you know, be able to not be the worst player in baseball
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone in the gamethread last night
Made the astute observation that Guillen should juice again. If he improves, great. If he gets caught, he is suspended without pay. Win-Win!
by kcbottom9th on Jul 11, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
brilliant
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see any reason
to keep Guillén. Trade him for a grade D prospect and eat three-fourths of his salary. If nobody else is dumb enough to go for that deal, DFA him now.
As Civil War surgeons said, you have to cut the whole limb off or the wounded man will die of gangrene.
It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.
by Juancho on Jul 11, 2009 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+++
If i knew how to recommend posts I would
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is pretty difficult.
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Jul 11, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 11, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
to summarize
the team which is 12th of 14 in OBP traded a guy who was 95th of 97 in OBP to the team who is 14th of 14 in OBP
and the manager of that team with this new shortstop says that they’re focusing on OBP
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 11, 2009 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
scratch that
General Manager
but both of them are a whole lot of talk on this topic.
It’s no coincidence that when you don’t get on base and don’t score, you DO. NOT. WIN. GAMES.
And Moore has stacked our system with tons of these guys from Burlington to Springdale
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 11, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can you do the math atleast?
Maier and Pena are out of the lineup forever now.
Jacobs will barely play since Hillman said Teahen will mostly play LF and 1B, DHing Butler
So taking those two sub .300 OBP out of the lineup and inserting a .310 (hopefully) OBP at SS is ok
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Betancourt hit .310 in OBP once
in 2006.
And leave it to Hillman to move Butler from 1B to DH despite Butler actually fielding pretty well and hitting well while at 1B (much better than he hits at DH too)
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 11, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh yeah
it’s fucking genius to keep a banged up Guillen on the field, and move Butler to DH
granted, Guillen has a worse BA/OBP against LHP than Jacobs right now. Seriously
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 11, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah I know
he needs to DH and Teahen needs to play RF
Baby steps for Hillman you know
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
TPJ is probably going to come back to KC in September. The move that will be made to get Yuniesky on the 40 man will be putting Aviles on the 60 Day DL
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 11, 2009 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
By the way
Is anyone worried after yesterday who the PTBNL might be in Freel trade?
by Toothpick on Jul 11, 2009 5:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I had it after the trade
I have this irrational fear that the words “Carlos” and “Rosa” might be on the list
by sterlingice on Jul 11, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Taylor
Childish, un-Christian attitudes will be roundly punished. Unless, of course, you’ve ever been a member of the Atlanta or Seattle organizations.
by MkeRoyal on Jul 11, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this trade nearly killed me yesterday... literally...
I was driving down a two-way highway when i got the text and nearly drove off the road. i hope GMDM is happy…
where i'm "day-to-day" but i won't play again happens!
by blue bandwagon on Jul 11, 2009 6:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow I didn't realize Betancourt was that bad
When I first heard about this trade I thought it made sense-The Royals tap into the pitching depth and trade who I believe was there 5th best SP prospect (D.Duffy, M. Montgomery, T. Melville & (unsigned) 1st rd draft pick A. Crow being better) and get a solid young SS… Then I looked at Betancourt’s numbers and he is awful and older than I realized I guess the royals were concerned about Cortes’s make up as I believe he was recently involved in some off-the-field trouble but still you have to think that someone better could’ve been had for a talent as good as Cortes’s.
Grab Some Pine Meat!
by Gobroks on Jul 11, 2009 6:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm astonished to see how many posts
there are referring to Cortez having “make up” problems or whatever – given that it was because he was pissing in the outdoors. OMG, THE HUMANITY!!!
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Jul 11, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He peed outside a bar
That’s not peeing in the woods at a house party or something.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not exactly smart
but this makes him unsuitable to playing in professional baseball? And, in your words, of ZERO VALUE?
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Jul 11, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a prospect so has some value
Of course im exaggerating. But the Royals have several better pitching prospects
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 11, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Royals own HOFer, George Brett, was caught peeing in a fountain on the the Plaza one night (no charges though) and we all survived. I believe he's still with the team 25 yrs hence.
by Steve Hovley on Jul 12, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dayton's probably trying to trade him for Jay Buhner
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 12, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was Don Mattingly and Dale Berra.
Nicknamed the “Tinkle Twins”
by jbrocato on Jul 12, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying he has bad make up problems
I’m just looking for reasons as to why the royals did this
Grab Some Pine Meat!
by Gobroks on Jul 11, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Google ads might be going a bit far
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 11, 2009 6:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oof
Not the greatest ad out there. Seems a bit creepy
by sterlingice on Jul 11, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good news everyone!
I’ve unearthed a transcript of the “chat” leading to the trade. I’ve finished transcribing it, and am working on adding the pictures of the participants now. I hope to have it up in the next day or two.
I also finally did the simpsonize-me thing — in honor of that, I’m updating my avatar
by Top Ramen on Jul 11, 2009 8:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This all makes no sense
Why do the Royals want to acquire bad players?
Fire everybody, starting with Dayton. Let’s keep the guys we have in the minors and about ten guys off the current major league team.
And then let’s all admit we’re not going to smell .500 until 2012 at the earliest.
One thing: No matter how dumb the current management team is, I’m still a fan and always will be. Even if the highlight of the game is rooting for for Jake to somehow not strike out.
Go Zack and Jack.
It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.
by Juancho on Jul 11, 2009 9:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
this team can compete next year
Meche needs to get his head straight but Greinke, Bannister and Hochevar have all been good.
Lets see what Gordon has to add to the decent hitters we have in Dejeus, Butler, Teahen, Callaspo
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 12, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny. I see 2 Moore acquisitions in there
Banny and Callaspo. Good times. Good times.
by AxDxMx on Jul 12, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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