"The defensive statistics - I still really don't understand how some of those statistics are evaluated, I really don't. When you watch baseball games every single day, its very apparent who can play defensively and who can't."
over 2 years ago
RoyalsRetro
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that really says it all
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
the stadnard argument we hear from guys with bad arguments and no evidence
if you watch baseball everyday, you know the truth
Here I am watching baseball almost every day
And all I’m “qualified for” is living in my mother’s basement and having no life.
I willingly accept the latter
I live on the third floor
and so I’m immune to that jibe from sportswriters. :P
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
Also interesting
He says not long ago Betancourt had more value than Billy Butler or Alex Gordon. Which suggests to me that he once offered Gordon or Butler to Bavasi for Betancourt (Bavasi was such an idiot – unlike our GM!)
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Follow up question:
“So Dayton, when was the last time you saw Yuniesky play SS for an extended period?”
Unless I'm wrong...
Petro ripped Moore's comments to shreds at lunch time
and you can’t blame him. Petro’s main point was that it is Moore’s JOB to understand defensive metrics.
If you don’t understand the established metrics, then perhaps you should use some of your own? Instead, this organization relies ENTIRELY on scouting to make decisions about player’s defensive abilities.
I think Posnanski summed up the frustration for most every poster on RR – we are rooting for an organization that simply does not see the game of baseball the same way as we do.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on Jul 13, 2009 1:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
it isn't 2005
i feel like, just a few years ago, you could make a statement like this, and people would not only let it fly, they’d love it
rrrrar baseball isn’t played on computer screens in your mother’s basement, etc
now, sure, you can still be old school, but its getting less and less cool to parade ignorance as a virtue
by Freneau on Jul 13, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
rec'd for "rrrrar"
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Ditto.
It’s even better in person.
by wentToARoyalsGameBeforeRR on Jul 13, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
you know what's really ironic?
Dayton MOore has a master’s degree, while neither Billy Beane nor Jack Z. ever went to university, as far as I know.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
What's ironic
is that the underlying data used for the play-by-play metrics is collected by individuals who “watch baseball games every single day” — every play in fact, multiple times.
by Gopherballs on Jul 13, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
and that
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Its also ironic
That Yuniesky Betancourt sucks and we traded for him. Its ironic like rain on my wedding day.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 13, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
We have another strong entry for the "Dayton Moore Era" Epitaph
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
Anyone else starting to think that Jin Wong is a floating little elf that only Dayton Moore can see?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Moore can see him, yet cannot hear.
Wong is the Cassandra of the Royals. Doomed to speak but not be heard.
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
I'm sitting in my car eating lunch and saw this on the front page
and started laughing with anticipation for what will be said about this. I’m really starting to dislike this guy.
I mean, I don’t understand all the sabermetrics, but it’s not my JOB to… And, to admit like that – flat out that he is not qualified for his position – is just as stupid as could be.
Seeking inspiration to fill this space...
by Andy Edwards on Jul 13, 2009 1:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
and the thing is, no one is suggesting that the front office should only look at stats
The good organizations integrate both as a means of checks and balances.
So, please tell me why
d_f, RR, Retro, etc. aren’t the new Front Office….
Seeking inspiration to fill this space...
by Andy Edwards on Jul 13, 2009 1:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Exactly.
But I can’t accept someone who revels in his ignorance. “Why, not only do I NOT employ stats, I don’t even know what they mean! Har-har!”
by Siberian Khatru on Jul 13, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
no one's even suggesting he should understand how they are "evaluated"
but that he at least has someone who does and that he listen to that person
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
For mentioning the bare minimum of what he should be doing, have some one, or more than one person know about defensive metrics to help decisions along….not as a stand alone
soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 13, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
He claimed that the Royals
have 2 “sabrematricians”. Of course, as you point out, they probably don’t listen to anything they report. I’m sure they are jokes that get laughed at behind closed doors.
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
"People who like to watch" -- Fans Scouting Report, Yuniesky Betancourt
50 is average, and position neutral, so we’d expect the average shortstop to be higher than 50, if people are doing it right
2008: 39
2007: 69
2006: 82
Looks like a guy who’s getting ready for a big breakout!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
So, this is what being a Royals fan
is all about…
Seeking inspiration to fill this space...
by Andy Edwards on Jul 13, 2009 1:47 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Matt Millen ›››› Dayton Moore??...
Seeking inspiration to fill this space...
by Andy Edwards on Jul 13, 2009 1:49 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
At least Dayton is drafting in an acceptable manner
His trades are very Millenesque though
I am not a stats guy, but good God GMDM, pull your head out of your ass and look at a spreadsheet man.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Jul 13, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Was it Moore or Hillman
who decided Mike Jacobs would be a good fielder because he could toss it to the pitcher real good
"smoothly executing the 3-1"
a preseason classic
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately
You can’t smoothly execute the 3-1 if you don’t field the ball, and you can’t throw out runners from short with your cannon arm if you can’t reach the ball.
Check out #6 (at ~2:00) for Jacobs "Web Gem" 3-1
Now that is how you smoothly execute the 3-1
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman on Jul 13, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
This is like a pilot who doesn't know what lift is
Sure, he can fly the plane. But it is always to going to be flown shittily, because he doesn’t understand why it is in the air.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 13, 2009 1:58 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Pagig TucsonRoyal, Jeff, are you there?
I think it’s time to finally write “The Computer”
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
I am so pissed right now.
That quote is just too classic. He should be fired on the spot for it.
The more I think about it, this is actually making the Royals better because we do improve SS and Dayton has 8 million less to spend on below replacement talent. It might help the team in the long run.
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman on Jul 13, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The more I think about this
the stupider it seems – not just based on content for stupidity, but for the message it sends to 1. the fans 2. the rest of the FO 3. Glass (if he cares) 4. the players.
Dayton is stubborn in his “Brave-st” ways. This sends a message, IMO, that Dayton is admitting he is in way over his head right now…
Seeking inspiration to fill this space...
by Andy Edwards on Jul 13, 2009 2:01 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
he wants out
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
5. To the rest of MLB
Of course, he’s got a big contingency of like minded folks around the league all nodding, “yeah, you got that right.” But, all the guys smart enough to use stats definitely smell blood in the water with this guy. They know they can ship him any shitty player they want and con something good out of him.
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
i think someone might be TRYING to get fired
how else can a statement like this be made? as if people who produce the stats don’t understand the game? come on. and yeah, i can tell who’s good and who sucks without a spreadsheet, but even that excuse does not match up with reality….coming from the man who brought you tony pena jr., mike jacobs, jose guillen, and now betancourt.
Farnsworth's imitation tight-pants now on sale at Dick's!
by kcisbetterthanstlateverything on Jul 13, 2009 2:04 PM EDT reply actions
In a related story
From Neyer:
This, on the other hand, would scare me a little if I were a Cub fan:
DL: Are defensive metrics an important part of your evaluation process or do you rely primarily on scouting?
JH: It’s scouting for me. People scout players and they rate their defense, and that’s what I go by — and the personnel that we have in our own dugout.
If Hendry really has no regard for the use of defensive metrics, he begins every single decision-making process at a disadvantage, because defense comes into play not only when evaluating fielders, but also pitchers. My friend Rany Jazayerli — more from Rany later today, by the way — has suggested that the Cubs could be the National League’s Red Sox, if only they had good and stable ownership.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
I just love how "SCOUT" is held with such a high regard
like, often times when making an argument for a player (cough-KILA-cough), someone is always there to make a rebuttal, “SCOUT X DOESN’T LIKE HIM!”
People, Jamie F’n Quirk is a scout, and when he speaks the brains of all children and small animals within a 50 yard radius collectively melt.
- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes
So frustrating
I think your are correct KC>Stl, he is trying to get out some how
Wow, just………there are no words to describe the utter lack of self awareness shown by that quote. (oh, wait I guess i just wrote some words about it, talk about self aware!!!)
He just came out and said why KC is not evaluating their talent at an average MLB level, the reason why they overpay, or underpay, or more than often then not get screwed in a deal, a trade, or an acquisition.
Big time MLB GM : FAIL
soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 13, 2009 2:10 PM EDT reply actions
Thank God
I was already in the bathroom when I saw this item.
by Black and Gold on Jul 13, 2009 2:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I had to listen
I love the way the hosts frame the question “where you surprised by the way that columnists and sabermetricians who don’t know what the player looks like.”
DMGM apparently has been working on this trade for a month, and “looked all his scouts” in the eye andn told them about the criticism, compared him to Meche…
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
"If Yuniesky Betancourt were out on the market and we signed him for 2/$5M, we would be applauded."
Um, no, you wouldn’t.
And that doesn’t account for the prospects.
Who apparently now suck.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
This statement speaks for itself
Other gems from the interview:
1) The Royals employ 2 SABRmetricians, and Dayton listens to them. Either they’re not very good or Dayton’s regard for them is simply a lie.
2) Signing Scutaro or Wilson would me we only keep 1 of DDJ, Teahen, Buck, Olivo, or Jacobs next year. This way, we get to keep 3 or 4 of them. If there are more than 2 of these guys on next year’s roster, there was a massive failure in moving DDJ, Teahen or Buck/Olivo for value before this deadline or in evaluating Jacobs by any standard, whether that be scouting, statistical, or just wishful thinking.
3) We lost “the best CF in the American League” to injury. When did we get Grady Sizemore?
4) Meche is a veteran who knows how many pitches he can throw, and so his input in whether he’s thrown too much is important. If it was up to Gil, he’d willingly throw 170 pitches in a game and have 32 complete games a season. Players cannot necessarily be trusted to be honest about their physical condition, especially if they are a warrior.
Yeah, it was a stupid screen name.
by CentralChamps2009 on Jul 13, 2009 2:20 PM EDT reply actions
oh no! we won't be able to keep Jacobs and BOTh Buck and Olivo!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
logical result:
trade teahen, ddj; keep buck, olivo, jacobs; B. Pena to Omaha.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 13, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Royals employ two sabermetricians
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 13, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
This might help
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 13, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Meeting between DM and 2 SABRmetricians
DM: So, what does your analysis of Yuniesky tell you?
2SABRs: Um, he’s the worst fielding SS in the game, the worst hitting SS in the game, and the worst baserunner in the game
DM: Lord, that’s why you guys don’t know squat. Yuni’s one of the better talents in the game. I will never use stats again.
OR (with apologies to the Homer goes back to college episode):
DM:: [in the revamped offices of the K, yelling at a SABRmetrician] Neeeerd!
Glass: Dayton, that isn’t very nice.
DM: Mr. Glass, try to understand. There are two kinds of evaluators of talent: scouts and nerds. As a scout, it is my duty to give nerds a hard time.
[A “scout” walks by]
Hey pal! Did you get a load of the nerd?
Scout: [not understanding] Pardon me?
Using a computer outside of my mother's basement since 1988.
by Royal Revival on Jul 13, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm curious
if the 1 of 5 statement is predicated on purchasing Coco’s option.
Don't Stop Believing!
Has there ever been any question about that?
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
Yes that "best CF in AL" line was classic....
Sizemore
Upton
Adam Jones
Granderson
Josh Hamilton
……even the Torrii Hunter, Ichiro, Ellsbury crew is better than Covelli.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 13, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dayton probably would admit he made a mistake
He forgot that Andruw Jones is back in the AL
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I hope he meant defensively
But still…..You all know how I feel about Coco’s arm!
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 14, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Berroa comp!
“We’re going to see some things at the SS position we haven’t seen in KC… certainly since Berroa’s rookie year.”
Close.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
Should have said
“since Berroa’s final year.”
Yeah, it was a stupid screen name.
by CentralChamps2009 on Jul 13, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Willie Bloomquist and Jose Guillen were important sources
I love how all his acquisitions justify each other
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
It really says something
when I give more of a crap about Brayan Pena’s opinion than Willie, Guillen, and more and more, Dayton Moore
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
maybe I'm jaded
but this is Palin-esque
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
SOmebody is fired up right now...
that’s like 8 straight comments from just you
Seeking inspiration to fill this space...
by Andy Edwards on Jul 13, 2009 2:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I should stop listening
so many defensive comments in the interview
and so many “dumb guy trying to sound smart” markers, too
I’m obviously biased at this point, but, yeah, I’m fired up
now I’m at the part where he’s bragging about how he was part of acquirign some of the best SSes out there
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
"Can you name any sabermetric publications do you regaularly read?"
Um, all of them . Any of them. And I can see Billy Beane from my house! Scout baby scout!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 13, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"[def. stats] don't know the position of the player"
um, don’t most player positoin themselves, and thus don’t the stats implicitly measure how well they are doing that?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
i think your question is rhetorical...
he’s really demonstrating that doesn’t understand how they work. at least he’s telling the truth.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 13, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he meant
The statistics don’t know the position of the player, because statistics are abstract expression of numeric values, and not in themselves, sentient beings?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 13, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm really sick of hearing him complain about payroll
It’s like Neyer said: the mark of a bad GM is spending money on bad players (Guillen, Farnsworth, HoRam, Mahay, Jacobs, etc.) then using payroll disparity as an excuse.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 2:33 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
I'm feeling a quote by quote
FJM/NYRoyal style beatdown coming from this interview.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
"Those same national columnists were picking the Royals to win the division."
yes, those are the same “sabermetricians” who are criticizing the Betancourt deal.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
"But I'm not going to make excuses!"
Right after 20 minutes of doing so every 2 minutes.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
okay, sorry... back to work.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I certainly don't feel better
but was momentarily confused enough to quit thinking about the Royals’ situation.
From the article:
Jennifer, on herself and another girl:
We were two smart, marginally attractive girls who let their lives go to $hit over boys who cheated on us with simple girls.
Oops, sorry, I think you put the adverb in the wrong place there…
by wentToARoyalsGameBeforeRR on Jul 13, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
when they stop tanning, you know its bad
After Alicia’s most recent, and probably the most devastating of breakups, she lost 10 pounds, stopped tanning, and without a second thought cut her gorgeous blonde hair to her shoulders and dyed it black!
Ugh
Ten pounds lighter, short dark hair and no fake tan. She sounds hideous!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Okay: one last comment
he just used the word “proactive.”
All Simpsons fans know what I’m thinking.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
We made Baseball Think Factory
Hooray, now everyone knows how dumb our GM is. I feel like a reporter just published a story about my crazy cross-dressing uncle.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
lol, soren petro has been destroying this interview all day
what a disaster. moore sounds like an uneducated, arrogant moron
-
Is there a link to the petro archive?
since I’m totally working and not wasting my time getting worked up about this.
DDJ basestealing >>> Dayton Moore interview answers
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
nah, not yet at least
you gotta realize petro thinks jose guillen was the best player on the team last year though…. and he still manages to realize dayton moore is assembling a horrific collection of bad defenders who can’t get on base. it’s pretty hilarious in that context
-
Am I the only one who thinks he was just some administrative hack with the Braves
that worked his way up and developed a nice rep by association?
Wow, it’s just like the Glass himself!!! A hack who happened to catch on with the right guy and the right association, Walmart.
I get it now!!! I get it!!!
so basically
George Brett should be appearing on a local telecast any hour now
by Freneau on Jul 13, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Does Brett have any say at all?
I know he is Vice president of Baseball operations or something like that.
Great players can be shit at they do after they retire. Like Joe Morgan.
Well, he's right, there's something very APPARENT here.
Not so sure he gets what that thing is though.
It is fair for a general manager to dismiss or not put much stock into individual statistics
as long as they understand what they mean.
But to not understand what they are but still pass a judgment on them is what we on the streets call ignant.
- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes
by JobDDT on Jul 13, 2009 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I know I don't post nearly as often as I should (or that I used to)
But a comment such as this is truly unbelievable. It’s amazing to consider how I have morphed as a baseball fan….in 2007, I held very high hopes for Moore. It’s astonishing how far he has fallen not only in my eyes, but in the eyes of many other Royals fans.
I essentially agree with a poster on BBTF….we have little to no chance under this regime and its bizarre, bizarre talent evaluation and understanding of market efficiency.
I actually ADVOCATED for Dayton Moore
I guess I really had no clue as to his philosophy though. Shows the folly in fans trying to pick GMs.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Moore and the people around him
have skills, but they also need to swallow their pride and adapt a little and change
some people can do this, other can’t
The multi-year deals have killed us exponentially
It has seemed very few organizations still sign marginal big-leaguers to the multi-year deals we have in recent times. I think Moore is rather dogmatic and I really can’t see him changing heart anytime soon, unfortunately.
Strangely, though….it seems Moore’s moves have grown exponentially worse, though, every season. In 2006-7, he actually made a flurry of smart ones – Riske, Dotel, Soria, and Meche (though it was controversial at the time). I could understand the logic behind several of his trades then…even the Gathright/Howell deal. But his FA signings are Bavasi-bad…or near Bavasi-bad.
If we had the chance to sign DeWayne Wise for $2MM or Nick Swisher for $7MM, and we had $10MM to spend….I truly wonder which Free Agent Moore would sign. That is sad.
by Royals Nation on Jul 13, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Wise vs. Swisher
(As you noted last year, RR)
by Royals Nation on Jul 13, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel like he started strong...
b/c he had a certain amount of good ideas he’d come up with in his years working at a lower level
which is understandable
if you had always wanted to teach english, but never had, the first three weeks of your class would be awesome, then you’d run out of ideas and be stuck
(speaking from experience)
"...little to no chance under this regime..."
So, what do we, as fans, do besides complain on this and other websites? JoePo’s latest “Depressing” column sums up my feelings, but other than drinking, what productive measures can be taken by us fans? We can’t quit as fans b/c we then would not by definition be fans (btw, how pathetic is our team that we’ve analyzed this concept to death lately), and we can’t just stop going to or watching games (because we’re fans), but seriously, is there anything we can do? A letter or petition or something? Is there any reasonable action that would get the attention of these idiots and not end up in the crazy fan letter shredder?
Using a computer outside of my mother's basement since 1988.
by Royal Revival on Jul 13, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
hope that the prospects pan out big time
hope that Moore can adjust and improve
hope that we are wrong
and/or, take the games a lot less seriously I guess
His insistence on high school players in 2008 and 2009 could prove detrimental, IMO
That is my largest worry. From someone who writes daily Minor League reports, the progress of Hosmer and Moustakas has been maddening. Especially when they’re getting leapfrogged by other prospects. Barring an epic-second half tear, they will slip substantially in prospect rankings next year
And, of course, the offenses of Burlington, IA and Wilmington rank at the bottom or next to the bottom in their league. The upper minors are bare, but we can’t really pin that on Moore. The low minors look promising, but where is the position player prospect depth? There is none.
by Royals Nation on Jul 13, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
This type of MLB player evaluation
….will indeed manifest in MiLB player evaluation. Of course, that is only my opinion. Hosmer and Moose are still years away, as are many of Moore’s H.S. picks which comprise the vast majority of our low-Minors talent.
by Royals Nation on Jul 13, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
low Minors "prospect" talent, I should say
by Royals Nation on Jul 13, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
On the upside
We have lots of good young arms, that we can trade for below replacement level talent.
Agreed, but don't forget: Hope that Moore can do all those things before trading away more prospects for horrible players
But yes, I guess take it less seriously is one way to do it…
I want to be wrong!
Using a computer outside of my mother's basement since 1988.
by Royal Revival on Jul 13, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess he's just asking for it
the funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it!
by ratherfantastic on Jul 13, 2009 3:08 PM EDT reply actions
after we lose 100 games next season
this charade will end
-
You mean THIS season
Take away the 18-11 start from 37-51, and the Royals are 19-40 (.322 winning percentage). If they play .322 baseball after the break for the rest of the year, they will end up with 24 more wins. That’s a grand total of 61! With 101 losses!!!!!!!!! It will happen this year. Although I don’t possibly think they can keep up that replacement level pace. With Gordon back, TPJ hopefully gone, they could play slightly better and not lose 100. At this point, I think they are shooting for 72-90 I guess, but if the starting pitching regresses, it could stay that bad.
unfortunately,
he’ll always hang on to the injury excuse
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
Man, I really wanted Yunel from the Braves. What a letdown.
by Uscbalto on Jul 13, 2009 3:12 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
"It was a no brainer for us"
Well, Dayton is right about that.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 13, 2009 3:12 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I can't help but wonder what we offered for Miguel Tejada
Moustakas, Duffy and Gordon?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
also begging the question
what the fuck, why would we want miguell today? it’s like…. he really….thinks….we could compete, all we need is miguel tejada
-
thankfully the astros had a torrid 6-4 run during that time
and decided they had to keep their core together
remember the one time they went the world series earlier this decade
that was awesome
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I can sense Beane scrambling to his phone in an attempt to exploit our "market inefficienc(y/-ies)"
And Epstein. Oh, and Byrnes. Zdurencik, too. And don’t forget Towers. And Daniels. Beinfest, too. And Friedman. And Smith. Reagins, too. Cashman….Shapiro…. Jocketty…. Kenny Williams, what are you doing in here? Omar Minaya???
Oh, boy. [/Bob Davis]
by Royals Nation on Jul 13, 2009 3:42 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This is only half a joke
I bet there are GM’s across baseball pissing themselves listening to this interview. DM has done himself no favors when it comes to hashing out deals with other clubs after showing his ignorance so proudly.
He just stated there was a time Betancourt was regarded higher than Butler or Gordon
Is this true? If not, how can he possibly believe this? Does he honestly believe this?
You know
Butler only won 2 batting titles in the minors, and Gordon was only the best prospect in all of baseball.
No, not that highly regarded.
Maybe he meant back in Cuba
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Because he offered Gordon or Butler to Bill Bavasi for Yuniesky Betancourt
And was turned down.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
This is like a fucking clown show in here
Man, you guys are posting like monkeys jumping around a jungle gym. So much hate and criticism I just have to laugh.
As a GM, Moore can’t say this kind of thing. He went on to say, “when fielding, you don’t know who is pitching and the bat speed of the ball.”
It doesn’t matter Dayton. You don’t have to consider sabermeric like the gold standard like some geeks on here do, but you have to atleast recognize their value.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 13, 2009 4:17 PM EDT reply actions
"fucking clown show" = "hate and criticism"
Using a computer outside of my mother's basement since 1988.
by Royal Revival on Jul 13, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
You keep posting attacks on us
Man, so much hate and criticism. It makes me laugh.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
actually clowns are funny - it's not an insult at all
Me and my coworkers call each other clowns all the time. funny people = clowns
Retro, I’m not posting attacks at all…I’ve been asking for a little more calm, less rush to judgement and a word that seems to be censored here: optimism
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 13, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
There's no reason for the optimism
We were optimistic to start the year. Now we are in Buddy Bell mode: “It can always get worse.”
You called me a monkey
Them are fightin words.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 13, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Monkey
What you going to do…. move back Xmas? Huh?
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman on Jul 13, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
That interview begs for the FJM treatment.
Begging for it. Absolute absurdity.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
If someone transcribes it, I'll do it later this week
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
n oguarantees on it being good, though
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
If someone hasn't already, I'm probably transcribing this mofo
during the HR derby.
Yes, large amounts of free time are created by sprains.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
This thread linked by Rob Neyer
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
i believe it is possible to watch a player perform and accurately
determine that player’s ability, including defensive ability, and also by observation to come fairly close to ferreting out that player’s stats. GMDM’s basic premise is correct, although there’s quite a gap between noting that visual evaluation is possible and yourself possessing that ability.
Hey, I'm all for scouting and using the information you can glean from your own eyes
But to simply ignore defensive statistics is ridiculous.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
especially when you "don't understand how they are evaluated"
or are we being unfair?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
i think that mistates GMDM position. Further in the interview
he stated he uses stats to identify, compare, back up, etc.
Yup
like that part of the interview where he says that Billy Butler has “really improved with runners in scoring position.”
No, I’m not making that up.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
hahaha yeah devil
I was like, “what the fuck are you talking about!” My last memory of Butler with runners in scoring position was that 8 foot dribbler back to the mound.
I agree with Coach Feb and i was going to elaborate on this. What Moore meant to say is correct. He meant to say something along the lines of, “I don’t necessarily agree with how defensive statistics are evaluated, you can get a good understanding of a players performance from watching film.”
There is nothing wrong with this statement at all. He is a GM with a scouting background. He is paid for this type of research and evaluation. However, to say, “I still don’t understand … I really don’t,” well is borderline insane and absolutely pathetic. It’s also his job to utilize each and every tool at his disposal when analyzing players.
And there is such a big weakness in his argument. Unless, he watched film of every game Betancourt has played in, it doesn’t matter if he “watches baseball games every single day,” Betancourt isn’t playing in them!
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 13, 2009 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Just listened to the podcast of a Rany interview that took place afterwards
In talking about the obvious comp., Dye for Perez, he mentioned Allard had a deal completed for Vernon Wells earlier that year, but was blocked by ownership.
Unless I'm wrong...
worth noting that Wells was a badass back then
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn't really around much when Baird was GM
But the more you guys talk about what he did, didn’t do and tried to do, the more I like him.
Didn’t he have Ibanez resigned for 3 years 24 million?
Didn’t he give Greinke all the time in the world away from baseball and just talk to him about what he was thinking/feeling when that’s exactly what he needed?
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 13, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think so on Ibanez
But ownership wouldn’t approve the third year or something like that.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 13, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Ibanez would've been something like 3/13
I’m not sure if he ever had him signed or not.
Paul Byrd was the one who came out in the papers and said he wanted the Royals to resign him during the season. Baird wanted to, but admitted that he couldn’t offer a contract because Glass hadn’t given him a budget for the next year. I think that was the summer before a CBA renegotation, and Glass was hedging against a lockout
Unless I'm wrong...
Hadn't heard that before
Thanks, I was feeling really super due to the Yuniesky trade, now I feel awful.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 13, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
He also mentioned that Baird had a mandate from Glass
to trade Dye within 36 hours. I’ve been looking for a news story / blog post / etc. to give more details, but haven’t found anything yet.
As painful as it would be, I wish this sort of stuff would be dug up by a “forensic” reporter — maybe Posnanski can do a book on the Baird years. I’d love to hear the stories about what was actually going on behind the scenes those years.
In looking for the 36-hour mandate thing, I stumbled across this:
Royals general manager Allard Baird has long coveted Alfonso Soriano, whom he nearly snagged along with first baseman Nick Johnson a few years ago for outfielder Jermaine Dye before the Yankees nixed the deal at the last moment.
And then, in digging, I ran into this from the Sporting News:
Before the Royals zeroed in on Moore, team chairman David Glass tried to bring back Whitey Herzog to oversee baseball operations. George Brett would have taken on an expanded role and former Phillies G.M. Lee Thomas would have been involved, too. Herzog, 74, and Thomas, 70, worked together with the Cardinals in the ’80s. Talks apparently broke down when Herzog, who managed the Royals from 1975-79, insisted on an open checkbook for scouting and player development.
Unless I'm wrong...
that's more than 140 years of baseballers!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I can only imagine a Whitey Herzog led team
An outfield of Joey Gathright, Wily Taveras and Michael Bourn would have been a lot of fun to watch.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 14, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
On a lighter note
Scott Van Pelt credited Hillman with the best mustache of the first half today…too bad that can’t make us into a respectable baseball team
Holy Shit!!!...Peterson resigned...Am I dead?...Is This Heaven?
by RoyalsFanStuckInCardsLand on Jul 13, 2009 9:12 PM EDT reply actions
I like
how DM called (perhaps paraphrasing) Yuni “a young kid”, “a raw talent”.
Young and raw?? 27.
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
at least he didn't call him a prospect.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
they dont know what a prospect is
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 13, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
IT'S NOT DAN CORTES THAT'S FOR SURE
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 14, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
You know, that Julio Franco guy ain't looking too bad
He’s got all the tools! Maybe we should sign him to a 3/$36 deal?
how closely has yuni's birth certificate been scrutinized?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 14, 2009 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Dayton says he talked to Brayan to verify his age
So its all good.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 14, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Did they take the interview down off the website?
I can’t find it anywhere. I can’t believe I missed this entirely.
by Soria's Unibrow on Jul 14, 2009 4:31 PM EDT reply actions
It's not listed on the podcast page, but it's still there......
Just click on one of the other Podcasts for “Border Patrol” (like Dick Jauron). That’ll open up a new window that lists all of their recent podcasts from that show—the Dayton one is still in there. Hope this helps.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 15, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Black Helicopters
landed on top of 810 building in the night and stole the server.
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Jul 17, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No way, no one in the Royal's organization knows what a computer looks like, not alone a server.
They were problem looking for some vinyls and 8 tracks with the interview on it.
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman on Jul 17, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This has been referenced on Fangraphs, Rob Neyer and Baseball Think Factory
Glad to know everyone knows what a stupidhead our GM is now.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Rany also mentions it his latest post
although he doesn’t link it
you the man Retro
Actually, you’re like RR’s own Repoz
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 15, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
My question is
Does Dayton even regret saying this now?
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129
Yes, but is only action is to hope Bentancourt can get on a 6 game hot streak and make a few plays.
Then he can tell everyone, he told them so.
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman on Jul 16, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, Betancourt’s OBP was a paltry .301 and he committed numerous errors. But I didn’t hear anyone complaining about that .281 batting average!
Unless I'm wrong...
by Top Ramen on Jul 16, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
does it make me a bad royals fan
for me to hope that yuni goes all tpj 2008 on the rest of the season?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 16, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
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