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Around SBN: The End Of Sabanball: Details, Barbarians, And Precision

Worst. Weekend.  Ever?


I think I broached this topic on one of the Gameday threads this weekend, but it should probably be more fully explored.

How does this rank in the annals of "dark" weekends in Royals history? I've only been around for about 10 years so I don't know if I've exactly seen a lot of "bright" weekends but this seems like a bad one even by our standards. 

Any others that spring to mind at the moment?  Or maybe some optimism as to how this really isn't that bad as you guys know I'm always in that market

Star-divide

1) The GM made a really stupid trade that makes everyone question if he even knows what he's doing. You don't take on someone else's payroll problem *and* give them prospects for doing it. As has increasingly become the cliche this weekend, we needed a SS before the trade and we still have a need for a SS after the trade.

 

My own personal take where I've finally put proverbial pen to virutal paper is below and I think it's mostly on the same page not only with Royals fans but a lot of baseball, in general:

Soren was on 810 this morning using a similar justification to GobbleforCyoung.  We didn't give up anything at the major league level and we improved at SS.  Soren even went so far to say that this looks like a good trade in a vacuum, which I vehemently disagree with as many do, be he said once taken in concert, as a whole, it's hard to justify.  

The first assertion is that Betancourt is better than any SS we have at the MLB level.  He is better than Tony Pena Jr, yes. But how is he better than Bloomquist by any metric?  He is definitely a worse hitter.  Defensively, he's is "officially" a SS whereas Bloomquist is not, but both scouts and stats guys say he's gotten worse at fielding and is a bad SS.  So neither is a good SS.  That said, Betancourt, may not even be MLB caliber as he was just benched in Seattle for a rookie hitting .168.

We only gave up Cortes and a throw-in with Saito.  This is true- we gave up nothing at the major league level.  We know the bloom is off Cortes's rose, however, there's opportunity cost to consider.  What else could we have gotten for Cortes?  For some reason, teams love to hold tightly onto their B level prospects but that's because they are strangely valued around the league.  If we're trading for a guy who has negative value, why should we give up anything at all?  Why not take on that player for Saito alone and then we'd still have Cortes to deal for another need.

The final nail in the coffin of this deal is that we gave up $7M and 2.5 starting years to someone who isn't even necessarily an MLB-level SS. This again goes back to opportunity cost.  What if there are other SS's available but we now think we're set because we're locked into a bad contract?  What of Mike Aviles?  What of the $7M we could have spent elsewhere?  Anyone idea what caliber of middle infielder was available last offseason for that kind of cash?

Really, Poz's comparisons to Neifi Perez and Rany's to Angel Berroa should send a chill down every Royal's fans spine.  I know they did to me.  It seems like we have been down this road before but it's even worse now because we actually gave up something of value to get it.

I think Rany had a scary but possibly very prescient paragraph in his blog post over the weekend:

But in practice, I think that years from now we will look at the Betancourt trade the way we look at the Neifi Perez trade. Just as the trade for Perez signaled the death knell for the Allard Baird era – even though it would take years for the Royals to finally put the era out of its misery and make a change at the top – I think that the trade for Betancourt signals the point at which Dayton Moore’s tenure as GM becomes untenable. It will probably be at least a few years before the Glass family sends Moore packing, but I no longer have any expectation that the Royals will ever win anything under the current administration.

Another minor frustrating aspect of this is to now have to answer again to the large market teams and how this again puts a false data point onto the "see, money doesn't matter- you just have to spend it well" graph.  Yes, you have to spend it well, but a team with more resources doesn't have to spend nearly as well as a team with less.

 

 

2) Meche is now officially hurt, tho he's actually been hurt ever since being thrown 115 and 132 back to back.  This is almost as if some divine being were looking down from on high, laughing at us (he is), in light of the recent blowup with Rany involving Nick Swartz and the press credentials.

It's no secret we've had other injury issues, particularly this season.  I'm mainly on an island with this one, but I'm concerned for Greinke, personally.  He threw 95 pitches for his first start of the season and then reeled of 14(!) in a row with over 100.  I realize all pitch counts are not created equal and he was in such an insane zone for the first month and a half of the season that those aren't nearly as stressful pitches as, say, Gil has had.  But having 5 CGs in the first 2 months of the season is going to take its toll.



3) Greinke's great season gets bypassed for Halladay to start the All Star Game. Yes, Halladay would be deserving in any other season but Greinke has been better this season. By no measure is Halladay better except less losses and a couple more BB in over 100 IP.

Halladay: 10-3 2.85ERA 123.0IP 106K 17BB 1.10WHIP 2.86FIP 4.2 WAR 39.0VORP
Greinke: 10-5 2.12ERA 127.1IP 129K 21BB 1.08WHIP 1.97FIP 5.8 WAR 45.5VORP

I know, it's basically a lifetime achievement award for Halladay but it does slightly take away from the banner season Zack has had.




4) Our GM was on the radio this morning, repeatedly talking about his payroll constraints for the first time. It's a problem- we get it and we've heard it. But you can't come to us, as a fanbase, and expect that to wash as an excuse right now when you just added payroll.  If $75M is where we top out for payroll, in the new stadium, then we are doomed to more bad baseball unless we get one of the best minds in baseball in the front office.

This is not to say that Dayton is bad. In fact, I think he's done a good job with a lot of things that go unnoticed.  He greatly increased the "scouting and developement" presence, doing everthing from adding a minor league squad so we have the most in the majors to increasing scout pay to convincing Glass to really open the checkbook on the draft- those Melville, Myers, Dwyer-type picks will pay dividends.  I think he really bolstered the front office, drawing some quality talent to this team.

However, with that resource limitiation, you need the front office equivalent of a superstar, not someone who doesn't get defensive stats, even if he's good in other facets of his job.  He would have to be great at practically everything to overcome these obstacles.

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In a way, it was liberating

It put me over the edge and I didn’t watch a single inning of Royals baseball this weekend. I did check the box scores, and from what I saw, I didn’t miss much.

This trade kinda helped me tune out the Royals. I’ll probably still post on here a lot, but I probably won’t watch every game like I’ve been doing, in fact, I probably will only watch Zack’s starts from here on out.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 13, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow, I used "probably" a lot

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 13, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I tape them on DVR and FF to the good stuff

I haven’t been watching whole games for weeks.

by AxDxMx on Jul 13, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know

One thing I was thinking about was that we didn’t have one of those horrible embarassing losses. We had a “give up” loss on Sunday and a “we can’t hit pitchers duel” on Friday. The closest was a potential “horrible, embarassing” loss Saturday but we made a game of it and it took some of the sting away.

That said, I guess if you have types of losses and how one is worse than another, perhaps that shows there are deeper issues.

by sterlingice on Jul 13, 2009 2:53 PM EDT reply actions  

It's hard to imagine a worse one

Nothing like bizarre and terrible roster moves combined with an embarassing series to the Red Sox, made worse by the AL sending its third or fourth best pitcher to the mound because of his “track record.” Haven’t read anything serious about Meche’s injury, if he ever would be ballsy enough to admit he has one. In any event, it’s the kind of thing that tests a fan’s will and desire to stay.

Farnsworth's imitation tight-pants now on sale at Dick's!

by kcisbetterthanstlateverything on Jul 13, 2009 3:50 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m posting with my phone. does anyone have the link to the thread about the dayton moore interview on the border patrol this morning?

by WhenWillDavidGlassDie? on Jul 13, 2009 3:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I'm going to try to be realistic

I’ve stated elsewhere, I think this is a bad trade, and really this is only going to be measured in varying degrees of badness. However, this is just one more data point in the overall evaluation process, right along with Bannister for Burgos, Callaspo for Buckner, Greinke’s extension, Parraz for Lumsden, the Guillen signing, and the Farnsworth signing.

I am still hopeful that DM is the guy; his resume thus far is probably a C at the major league level and incomplete at the draft and develop level. A C is not good enough for a GM in this market, so ultimately he may need to go. But, we really aren’t going to know that until we get results one way or the other from the minors.

I am hopeful that we play .500 ball in the 2nd half. In any case, I think we are going to have a lot of work to do to really contend in 2010. Still too many holes and not very much payroll flexibility.

Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jul 13, 2009 3:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Believe it or not, there have been darker days

As for trades, Dye for Perez was actually worse than this one.

As for news items giving the franchise a black eye, it’s pretty hard to top that day in 1983 when FOUR different Royals were indicted for cocaine possession or distribution. For the younger posters on here, suffice to say that was quite an embarrassment to what was then a well respected and well run organization.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Jul 14, 2009 1:54 PM EDT reply actions  

darker days indeed

i’m not happy about the betancourt trade, but i do find it a little amusing that everyone is lining up to slap Dayton like he’s the lady in the movie Airplane. I’m not personally trying to defend the trade, but how about a little balance? It was a bad trade, but comparing it to Dye/Perez? The fact that Dye is/was an all-star and Cortes hasn’t pissed a fucking drop above A ball makes that comparison ludicrous. Not a good trade, LET ME REITERATE but this isn’t a binary equation. There are varying degrees of good and bad.

I have been plenty guilty of leaping off the building multiple times in the past, but for goodness sakes can we just have a little objectivity from anybody?

Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jul 14, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's being objective that tells you it is a horrendous trade

Dayton, subjectively, thinks Betancourt plays good defense and can turn it around. Objectively, looking at his numbers, he is the worst regular in baseball.

Objectivity isn’t a problem. Being subjective and predisposed to a player is.

by kcbottom9th on Jul 14, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again, like I said above

Not defending the trade, I’m talking more about some objectivity in evaluating Moore. Either the guy’s a genius or a moron but there’s absolutely no middle ground. Was this a bad trade? At first blush, yes, and it will probably play out just like most people are expecting.

Has he made several good/very good moves as well? Absolutely.

Do the good outweigh the bad? We don’t know yet. I am waiting to pass final judgment until we see what his minor league prospects do. I will say that it does seem like his moves at the major league level have gotten worse as time has gone on.

Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jul 14, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

What are his good moves? Meche? Callaspo?

Signing Greinke to an extension was something a monkey could have done. I just don’t see the other moves you are talking about.

By the way, I know we are comparing this to Dye-Niefi, but apparently Baird was under an ultimatum from ownership to trade Dye within 36 or 48 hours and he had a deal that was going to bring Vernon Wells to KC, but was nixed by ownership. You can search the site and find it, I’m too lazy to look it up. If Moore is operating under the same constraints I could see that, but I don’t think he is or he wouldn’t have taken the job.

by AxDxMx on Jul 15, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

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