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Around SBN: Blue Devils Upset At Cameron Indoor Stadium

BOSTON -- Zack Greinke can be playful, bored, funny or insulting, all in the same sentence. When told the Wall Street Journal declared his slider to be the second most difficult pitch to hit in the major leagues behind the slider of the Oakland A's Michael Wuertz, Greinke barely moved his lips to answer.

"Who's Michael Wuertz?" he said.

over 2 years ago B-easy__hosk__walker_pic_tiny ksuroyals 27 comments 2 recs  | 

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There's a lot of great stuff

in that interview. I loved how Zack told Trey he didn’t need to talk to him everyday, every third day was plenty.

by hunter s. royal on Jul 13, 2009 6:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Classic Zack

the funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it!

by ratherfantastic on Jul 13, 2009 6:56 PM EDT reply actions  

I got to thinking about this later in the day

But I wouldn’t be shocked at all if Grienke and/or Hillman and/or GMDM went to Joe Maddon and asked him NOT To put ZG in the bigger media spotlight by starting him.

We as Royals/ZG fans LOVE quotes like his, but if you were an average Joe fan in Baltimore or LA, and you heard ZG pull out some quotes like he does, you’d think the guy was slow.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jul 13, 2009 7:24 PM EDT reply actions  

He tried the knuckleball for a season?

That would be about the only way for him to be more awesome. I bet that he’s going to throw one knuckleball to some random batter sometime in the next few seasons. Just to show everyone he can, like the sloooooooooowwwwwwww curve.

by Soria's Unibrow on Jul 13, 2009 8:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 13, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why Is It

That no one throws a knuckler as just another pitch? I can understand why most knuckleballers are specialists, but I’ve never seen anyone incorporate it into a regular arsenal. Knuckle-curves don’t count.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 13, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

i've wondered as well

I would guess it just takes too much time to master to make it worth it.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2009 10:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think you are correct d f

It’s such a specialized grip, and I think the “sweet spot” is really small (hence probably takes too much time and effort)

But it is a strange point.

soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 14, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

this is completely a guess....

but with a knuckleball, the arm slot/arm motion is so different that maybe people feel like it will fuck with the other pitches. Do we really want to jeopardize Greinke’s slider to throw 3 knuckleballs/game?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 14, 2009 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well Tim Wakefield wouldn't be in MLB without it

You give that pitch to Greinke and he would damn near be unhittable.

by AxDxMx on Jul 14, 2009 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Think of the hilarity

Of Olivo catching a knuckleball. That is the biggest reason to get Zack to learn it..

by kcbottom9th on Jul 14, 2009 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

i'm sure there's something about it...

that we’ve either picked up on or havent…otherwise someone would be doing it

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 14, 2009 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wakefield is an example the reason others don't do it

he doesn’t have the other “stuff” to worry about screwing up. He can just work on the knuckler and make sure his 72 MPH heater is okay.

HIstorically, the best knuckleballers have had to be specialists to keep the knuckler decent, at the expense of other pitches/because their other pitches sucked.

Rowdy Hardy is basically a left-handed Wakefield without the knuckler.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Jul 14, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

you dont see any knuckleballers with other pitches that are even worth worrying about....

wakefield throws his fastball and curveball in the same slot as he does his knuckleball…which would explain why they’re so god damn slow

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 14, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

sure that makes sense too

I’m not sure, but those are alternative points too

I bet it all of it, knuckballs defy laws of gravity and space time

soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 14, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Even Wakefield shows that knuckleballs that don't knuckle get redirected quite easily.

I wonder if most MLB pitchers are just scared of throwing the dreading straight knuckleball when they can already throw 90+ or have a good breaking pitch.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129

by Warden11 on Jul 14, 2009 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't Mike Mussina throw one in?

Or was it a knuckle-curve? I’ve heard of pitchers throwing it in occasionally back in the 80s.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 14, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

i've never heard of him throwing the knuckler...

he’s always had a great knuckle curve, but there are a bunch of pitchers that do that. The knuckleball is a totally different beast.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 14, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

knuckle-curve

I"ve never heard of it being a knuckleball, although I’m willing to be corrected

Side Note: I remember when Dan Reichert (I think) was making his rounds with the Jays a few years back, he mentioned that he would throw knuckleballs sometimes in Japan because the crowd loved it, but that he wouldn’t mess with it in the MLB.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Jul 14, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've been reading Ball Four this summer

Which is an excellent book, by the way, and I highly recommend it if you haven’t read it yet. The writer, Jim Bouton, was a young pitching phenom for the Yankees in the 60s. His delivery was so violent that his hat flew off his head a lot when he pitched. This led to some arm injuries that put the brakes on his career, and all of his electric stuff became a whole lot more hittable. The book is a day-by-day account of the 1969 season in which he resurrected his career by becoming a knuckleballer.

He talks a lot about the knuckleball in the book. He had to go to it because his arm had been damaged too much to throw other pitches effectively anymore. The knuckleball is a weird pitch because the harder you throw it, the straighter it goes and the easier it is to hit. There is nothing worse than a knuckleball that doesn’t knuckle. It’s batting practice. And there are so many factors that go into its effectiveness: how hot or cold it is that day, whether or not you’re playing in a dome, how humid it is, how much you’ve pitched recently, and a healthy dose of plain old luck. He had to completely change his mindset in order to keep from getting shelled, putting to rest any pipe dreams of getting his velocity back and being the power pitcher he was years ago and focusing instead entirely on the knuckler. The cool thing about it is that it has practically no effect on your arm. Bouton asked to pitch out of the bullpen when he wasn’t starting and to at least be warmed up every night in order to keep his arm rubbery enough to throw a good knuckler.

I find the knuckleball and the pitchers that throw it completely fascinating. But yeah, I think the reason that more guys don’t do it is that, unless you have a freakish arm, the knuckler has to be your bread and butter pitch. If you tried to mix it in with even an average velocity fastball and curve, the knuckleball just wouldn’t move right and you’d get lit up. And in a culture where the MPH is king and movement and control are less important, no one is willing to sacrifice pitching “like a normal person” in order to focus on a single pitch.

by Soria's Unibrow on Jul 14, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions  

I really think

The Royals should round up 5-10 pitchers that they are injured, just retired, released or whatever. Put them under the tutelage of Tom Candiotti or Charlie Hough. Then put them in minor league games as knuckleball pitchers. What would it cost you? Basically nothing, and you get end up with a Tim Wakefield, which in this day and age of 12-13 man pitching staffs, could be a HUGE advantage, particularly for a small market club, to have a guy that can pretty much pitch whenever you want.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 14, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm all for any idea that could potentially cost the Royals nothing while possibly giving them something

Sometimes thinking outside the box gets you in trouble, like giving a softball pitcher a tryout. But I would love to see us pick some guys up off the scrap heap and have them start over with the knuckler. Think about it. They would appreciate the opportunity to jump start their stalled careers and would work hard for us for practically free, we could potentially end up with a useful pitcher, and the fans would love a comeback story like that.

Would it work? Probably not. But when you’re the Royals, what do you have to lose?

by Soria's Unibrow on Jul 14, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why try something new for no cost?

THAT’S NOT WINNING BASEBALL

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Jul 14, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, somebody HAS TO teach Rowdy how to throw a knuckleball!

Can you imagine it? A lefty knuckleballer named Rowdy Hardy? It would be so awesome… and it would give him a much better shot of making it up to majors.

by Soria's Unibrow on Jul 14, 2009 3:39 PM EDT reply actions  

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