Trey Hillman: An Emblem for a Stubborn and Backwards Franchise
by Freneau on Jul 19, 2009 5:53 PM EDT
in Kansas City Royals News
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PrintThe Trey Hillmans and Dayton Moores of the world always tell us about the magical and mystical world of baseball. They describe it as a game played in a kind of manly tableau of romance, a strange concoction of male heroism -- you have to look into a guy's eyes now and then -- and a well-wrought detective novel. Little things, things that don't show up in the boxscore, are of course, supremely important. And it makes them feel intelligent, although they are at root anti-intellectual, to adhere to this sort of gnosticism. Not everybody really knows the game, like those who really know the game. Scouts, it goes without saying, are part of the initiated, the wizard sleuths who know what to notice and how to interpret the signs. The oracles of this creed speak as all oracles do, in circles designed to confuse outsiders. Thus, we are sometimes told things seemingly empty: he's a ballplayer, he plays the game the right way, and so on.
It is, fundamentally, a world enchanted by magic. A mythical world. Symbols and signs abound. Beginnings and endings, naturally, are of the utmost importance. How the first inning of the game starts, for the offense, is most important. Proper supplications must be made. If a good "bat-handler" can be found to bat second, much good fortune will be generated. His groundouts to second will be recorded by the spirit world approvingly. A dirty uniform, even if dirtied in missing a flyball or in being thrown out in a steal attempt, is both a sign of piety and a talisman of good tidings.
Momentum is omnipresent and extremely powerful. And yet, at the same time, momentum is fickle. As such, baseball plays out not unlike a Homeric epic. Momentum is the goddess who must be constantly courted and placated, for to lose her support would mean disaster. To lose a game in the 9th inning is to gravely offend her. For days, even weeks, the angry goddess will punish the team for any ninth inning loss, especially those where the Closer has not been properly used. Whole seasons, it is said, can be lost in this way. Curiously however, the goddess Momentum tends to sleep in the seventh and eighth innings. Losses there are merely accepted by all, perhaps as part of man's punishment for sins long ago committed.
This worldview, perhaps we shall call it a theosophical one, is not without its strengths. As noted above, it offers numerous intellectual and emotional comforts to its believers, including a deep connection to an imagined past, which for most men carries with it an association with the happy days of childhood and early manhood. Nevertheless, heresy and schism, continually lurk in this moral universe. A tragic flaw in the theosophical system, we might say, has been a combination of a basic rigidity or fundamentalism and an insidious trojan horse, both related to Closers.
The save statistic, which encapsulates so much of what the theosophical approach to baseball holds dear -- its myths of hoary-bearded bravery, its obsession with specific moments, its dedication to Momentum -- has by the end of this first decade of the 21st century nearly undone the enchanted world of old school baseball. A deep heresy within the old Soul School of Baseball, the seductive Save lured many old masters to venerate a number, a statistic. Of course, this kind of thinking went against the core understandings of the theosophical approach, and should have reminded men of their greatest enemies, the casts of eunuchs who had turned to numbers to evaluate the game. Numbers, they thought they still believed, were a false sign, something that only men with years and years of exposure to baseball dirt and spit could resist.
But they were wrong about themselves. In truth, the religion had always had a weak spot for numbers, which may have had a high place in the creed which the theosophical view had replaced. Various cults had repeatedly sprung up around the RBI and the pitching Win. The cult of the Save, in this way, was both old and new and old again. Their dedication to this number produced many elaborate rules and theories, and for the first time the old wizards became Scholastics. Legalistic men. Philistines. Obscure debates erupted around whether or not the Closer could be used to get four outs, or even, pray tell, five. The old veneration of feel, of grasping a certain key moment in the game, was replaced by dogmatism. Men who had pledged to deny a focus on numbers found themselves unknowingly turning to them more and more. The number with which the inning started, regardless of who was batting or what the score was, dictated everything.
Dominated by heretics from the inside, the theosophical model thus turned in on itself, losing the approval of the gods forever. Though they do not quite know it, it is now the domain of men doomed to be on the losing side of history.
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you don't even link to Mellinger's article from this morning
Trey is the next LaRussa, you shut your whore mouth!
He’s not going to bang his head against a wall trying to educate you about why Jamey Wright is the first guy out of the pen, or why John Bale keeps getting big situations, or anything like that
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
Actually, I Think
He’s the only one who knows it.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 19, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Great comments Will.
DMGM & Trey have certainly created their own special world, and if the gods disapprove of them, they are powerless to resist. Nothing is their fault, it is simple fate that rules against them.
by hunter s. royal on Jul 19, 2009 5:59 PM EDT reply actions
I wouldn't say they created it
They’re just so backwards in their thinking that they are, in terms of thinking about baseball, at the level of the Ancient Greeks. It’s not them, it’s the product of the old Joe Morgans of the world.
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
Rec
Excellent job yet again.
the funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it!
by ratherfantastic on Jul 19, 2009 6:00 PM EDT reply actions
Don't blame God for Trey Hillman.
He can’t figure out why Trey won’t use Soria either.
Trey's postgame was short.
Dick Kaegel actually asked a vaguely critical question, and Trey got pissed. Over in 60 seconds.
by hunter s. royal on Jul 19, 2009 6:01 PM EDT reply actions
That was pretty much Trey's attitude.
I think he called on Kaegel because he thought he would lob him a softball. I couldn’t hear exactly what Kaegel said, but there was some small amount of implied criticism of bullpen moves, and Trey was not happy.
by hunter s. royal on Jul 19, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Something along the lines of :
“Seemed like a rough weekend, just couldn’t find a way to get Soria into games, huh?”
Not exact, but it was similar to that comment.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
He can just ask him
What kind of aversion do you have for pitching Soria in the 7th or 8th?
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 19, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
So true.
The ignorant masses are such a bother.
by hunter s. royal on Jul 19, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Since he left the postgame news conference early
Let’s just roll the tape from yesterday:
There’s a lot that people don’t know. I’m not going to bang my head against the wall defending things I do or do not do in trying to educate the masses about things that, quite frankly, I can’t educate. There’s just too much.
Too much, Trey. Too much.
Wow
that’s a pretty condescending statement.
“You common people are too stupid to understand why i’m a retart”
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 19, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that statement will haunt him.
Allard Baird was under-financed and perhaps inept, but he never showed contempt for the fans, and lasted a long time. Trey and DMGM are getting a little too contemptuous of the fanbase, and that never turns out well.
by hunter s. royal on Jul 19, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Man. Ending that sentence with "I can't educate."
is about the least educated way to phrase what he was trying to say.
Are we sure he’s a native English speaker?
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 19, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
god this guy's act is getting old
at first i thought he was a harmless clown, no he’s getting really annoying
If we had started him on Friday, as opposed to Saturday, [we’d be} wondering whether or not we gave him enough rest with what his body has incurred.
I think that people who are confident and capable make no effort to sound like they’re smart. They typically speak directly, e.g. “We’re giving him an extra day’s rest because he threw a lot of innings in the first half.” Trey is not one of those people, so he sprinkles in words like “functionality” and “incurred” when there’s no need for them.
Trey's just being "proactive" with the situation,
trying to start a new “paradigm” for handling injured pitchers — maybe generate a little “synergy” with the coaching staff and players…
Unless I'm wrong...
by Top Ramen on Jul 19, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think they'll be plenty more.
sigh
by hunter s. royal on Jul 19, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Dick Kaegel:
“I’m fired, aren’t I?”
DMGM: “Oh yes.”
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
this reminds me of just before Bill Callahan
was axed at Nebraska. He had a press conference where he said in answer to a critical question about a series of offensive play calls “I’d explain it but it is probably too technical for you.” You insult the media, you are cooked.
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Jul 19, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely spot on
In fact, I thought of posting a Callahan reference
yesterday, because the similarities are becoming
very apparent, as you mentioned….
KCMO I believe.
I usually listen to WHB 810 because they’re not quite so closely aligned with the Royals.
by hunter s. royal on Jul 19, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I like listening to the 610 postgame
I really like Greg Schaum, I think he is one of the smartest guys on the radio in KC.
- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes
I'll have to try it.
810 is cutting their’s short tonight because of Sunday Night Baseball, and comments should be entertaining tonight.
by hunter s. royal on Jul 19, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh my God
This caller on 810 right now is the most ignorant person I’ve ever heard talk about baseball.
JOAKIM SORIA IS THE CLOSER I WOULD ONLY BRING HIM OUT IN THE NINTH JUST RECENTLY HE HAD TOMMY JOHN SURGERY
- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes
Didn't he have Tommy John like 5 years ago?
Nothing from Nothing leads to... Your 2009 Kansas City Royals
by averagegatsby on Jul 19, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, this guy is a moron.
That’s why he’s called the closer!
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
sounds like Yankees fans
“Yo, the Yankees got da get Roy Holiday…they just have to”
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 19, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be awesome if Hochevar says in postgame...
it sure would have been nice if Soria could have helped me out, but I understand he needs to be rested for when we need him in an 8 run blowout
Nothing from Nothing leads to... Your 2009 Kansas City Royals
Philip K. Dick
Knew his shit.
The Ten Major Principles of the Gnostic Revelation
From Exegesis, by Philip K. Dick
The Gnostic Christians of the second century believed that only a special revelation of knowledge rather than faith could save a person. The contents of this revelation could not be received empirically or derived a priori. They considered this special gnosis so valuable that it must be kept secret. Here are the ten major principles of the gnostic revelation:
The creator of this world is demented.
The world is not as it appears, in order to hide the evil in it, a delusive veil obscuring it and the deranged deity.
There is another, better realm of God, and all our efforts are to be directed toward
returning there
bringing it here
Our actual lives stretch thousands of years back, and we can be made to remember our origin in the stars.
Each of us has a divine counterpart unfallen who can reach a hand down to us to awaken us. This other personality is the authentic waking self; the one we have now is asleep and minor. We are in fact asleep, and in the hands of a dangerous magician disguised as a good god, the deranged creator deity. The bleakness, the evil and pain in this world, the fact that it is a deterministic prison controlled by the demented creator causes us willingly to split with the reality principle early in life, and so to speak willingly fall asleep in delusion.
You can pass from the delusional prison world into the peaceful kingdom if the True Good God places you under His grace and allows you to see reality through His eyes.
Christ gave, rather than received, revelation; he taught his followers how to enter the kingdom while still alive, where other mystery religions only bring about amnesis: knowledge of it at the “other time” in “the other realm,” not here. He causes it to come here, and is the living agency to the Sole Good God (i.e. the Logos).
Probably the real, secret Christian church still exists, long underground, with the living Corpus Christi as its head or ruler, the members absorbed into it. Through participation in it they probably have vast, seemingly magical powers.
The division into “two times” (good and evil) and “two realms” (good and evil) will abruptly end with victory for the good time here, as the presently invisible kingdom separates and becomes visible. We cannot know the date.
During this time period we are on the sifting bridge being judged according to which power we give allegiance to, the deranged creator demiurge of this world or the One Good God and his kingdom, whom we know through Christ.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
Moore’s lists of defenses for Hillman are as long as the criticisms. Hillman is accountable, Moore says, with "tremendous" leadership skills, good preparation and work ethic.
He’s smart and passionate, and those are two things Moore likes. Moore says he hopes Hillman doesn’t change anything, because "Trey has the chance to be one of the very best baseball men in a generation." He then mentions that Tony La Russa, Bobby Cox and Joe Torre each took harsh criticism early in their careers.
Dayton Moore lives in an alternate universe
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
Hillman is accountable?
WTF Dayton? I guess the two of them are at least equally accountable, which is not at all.
by swing and a miss on Jul 19, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Trey has the chance to be one of the very best baseball men in a generation.
Dear Dayton:
No, he doesn’t.
Signed,
Everybody everywhere
Why would you doubt Dayton Moore's abillity to evaluate future potential?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
what do any of those 'defenses'
have to do with being a smart baseball man?
I've got crazy flipper fingers!
Im so glad my dad forced me to stop being an A's fan whilst i was young.
Nothing from Nothing leads to... Your 2009 Kansas City Royals
Well, read through Athletics Nation a little bit.
They’re not any happier than us.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
And They Don't
Expect to suck.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 19, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
note that i did use sarcastic font...
and at least i get to watch the Royals suck, instead of just following in the newspaper. I pretty much jumped ship when the Dodgers beat the A’s in the WS, and then when McGwire went to the Cardinals it was officially over. By that time I had split love between the Royals and A’s. But for some reason i just couldn’t follow McGwire to the Cards. Maybe thats why I like the Royals, because it is absolutely impossible for me to like the Cards.
Nothing from Nothing leads to... Your 2009 Kansas City Royals
by averagegatsby on Jul 19, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
We just need to get him in an affair with a neighbor...
- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes
Very well written and entertaining.
I think the anti-number mentality arose after the save stat had already entrenched itself. That’s my only guess. That doesn’t really take away from the hilarity of the point you make….they are baseball men (who don’t need numbers to evaluate) acting a certain way because they are beholden to a number.
Awesome.
numbers have always been accepted in baseball
so long as they are the “traditional numbers” like batting average and RBIs. I’d argue that no sport embraces numbers and statistics like baseball does, that’s why every kid knows that Hank Aaron hit 755 home runs.
It’s not a matter of ignoring numbers and statistics, it’s ignoring the ones that have the greatest correlation with winning games.
by RoyalsFanInBillings on Jul 19, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
true true
their anti-number screeds are fun:
“a computer can’t tell you how good a player is (unless the computer lists his Saves or Home Runs)
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 19, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
three straight games from JP Howell
expect him to have Tommy John surgery next week. Closers aren’t made to get 9 outs in 3 days
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
or 5 outs in one day
Nothing from Nothing leads to... Your 2009 Kansas City Royals
by averagegatsby on Jul 19, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt. And remember how Mariano Rivera used to have two inning outings all of the time?
That’s why he was out of baseball so quickly after several ineffective seasons.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't understand this fucking guy
Johnathan Sanchez gets demoted the bullpen and not AAA. He starts again and throws a no-hitter
I bet Yabuta and Davies would be two decent relievers for us
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 19, 2009 6:25 PM EDT reply actions
Agreed.
Yabuta and Waechter should be promoted, if only to try something new. We know what Roman Colon can give us (second out celebrations followed by surrendering go-ahead run walks), and we know what Bale and Wright give us, too.
Get some fresh faces up here and see if SOMEONE can’t catch lightning in a bottle.
- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes
Not sure what the comparison is here with Sanchez. Sanchez couldn’t be sent to AAA — he’s out of options and would surely have been claimed if the Giants had placed him on waivers. And of course he got the start against the Padres only because Johnson got hurt.
Anyway, yes, you’d think the Royals would be able to give somebody a try in the bullpen other than the serial failures Wright, Bale, et al. That much I agree with.
Sanchez was good in the bullpen in his few appearances
I think Davies and Sanchez are very similar. I’d like to see Davies in the bullpen. He could help us
Davies and Yabuta would be an upgrade over Wright, Colon and Bale. Yabuta was good in stretches last year
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 19, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, Sanchez was very good in the bullpen.
And I like the idea of trying something different.
Yabuta I have my doubts about. His changeup wasn’t fooling anybody at the major league level last year. Of course it can’t hurt the Royals to give him another chance any more than it hurts to rely on the platoon of failures they have now.
Nice job, although mistitled. I'd think Hillman more than an emblem. And throw Mclure in there
I’d take a flier that underperformance also has to do with “use”, keeping them sharp, repeat overuse, failure to maintain confidence, etc. etc. etc. Nevertheless, when do you start questioning the pitching coach when every pitcher sucks except 2.
?????????
“reading this board”???
and I hope you don’t think that we only have two “non-sucky” pitchers. That statement is just wrong.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 19, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
See, I'm not ready to throw McClure under the bus.
Unlike Hillman, I generally feel like I’ve learned a lot after listening to PCBM speak. I have a lot of respect for him and think he is a really good pitching coach. Couple that with the fact that the only Royals player to ever have a problem with McClure was Jogey Wheelz, and I think he has earned a pass.
Plus, Greinke partially credits McClure with helping him turn his career around, so there is that.
- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes
OT
I wish someone sold turkey skin as a separate meal.
probably eating it covered in juices would be better than making it like pork rinds.
And this still makes more sense than Jamey Wright being the first guy out of the pen
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
Dayton Moore now tells The Star that Hillman will remain with the Royals not only this season, but next season as well.
"Absolutely," he says. "We’re all in this thing together. You can’t keep changing managers and coaches. Continuity is very, very important. If you’ve got people who work hard and people who care and are smart, you stick with them. Because if you stick together through the tough times, we’ve got a chance to win here and do something special long-term.
"You just can’t keep reshuffling."
nothing says continuity like blowing three games in a row in the 8th inning!
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
he's so fucking stupid
Is he delivering a speech to 5 year olds? “Keep changing managers?” What is he talking about! Just make one change that is called for. “work hard and are smart?” Obviously not smart with game managing! “a chance to win here” EVERY TEAM has a chance to win.
I"m tired of listening tot his guy. His moves have been horrible this year. His best trait (building a pen) has been completely exposed. Moore needs to get more heat. Eventually Hillman will be fired and probably this year. Once Moore’s job is in jeopardy Hillman will be the scapegoat for this.
If Ram Ram and Nunez were playing for the Royals, Hillman’s pen usage would not be an issue
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 19, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
The Royals do keep changing managers
This is the team’s 41st season and no Royals manager has lasted until his fifth anniversary. That’s a lot of changing managers.
I refuse to believe that all nine of the Royals managers from Ferraro through Hillman were incompetent.
Wright Is Done
I don’t know why everyone here knows this but Hillman doesn’t, but it’s time for GMDM to take him away. Trade him for anything or DFA him, whatever it takes, just put him out of Hillman’s reach.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
Good job Will...
i felt like i was back in college deciphering a textbook, having to stop and re-read sections and/or guessing what the big words meant. If watching the Royals hadn’t numbed the feeling in my brain weeks ago, it would hurt. Excellent job as always.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 19, 2009 6:56 PM EDT reply actions
good post here
sw3519 wrote on 7/18/2009 10:55:16 PM:
No wonder Moore likes Hillman so much, they’re both defensive, delusional egomaniacs who refuse to understand logic or admit to making mistakes.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 19, 2009 7:12 PM EDT reply actions
Can someone give Trey a drug test?
just so we can make sure that he’s not on downers
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
I Kinda Hope
He is; at least there’d some excuse for his decisions.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 19, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Over/Under on number of Soria appearances before he heads to the DL?
I’ll set the bar at 2.5 and take the under.
The last three games are eerily similar to the first half when Soria went on the DL. Now all we need is a “we were trying to gain a competitive advantage” quote from Trey.
Unless I'm wrong...
Soria looked healthy and threw well
right before the all-star break, unlike early in the year, when he was clearly physically struggling. I just think Trey got testy about being questioned about his non-use Friday and made an ill-advised comment, and bringing Joakim in yesterday or today in the same circumstance would have made Trey look fumblemouthed. So he sat Soria and lost games using inferior pitchers rather than admit he may have made a mistake.
by hunter s. royal on Jul 19, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope you're right
because I’d hate to see a Soria injury.
I just can’t figure out the stubbornness on Trey’s part. So you screw up once, then maybe twice — the third time you bring in Soria, and to hell with the questions. When someone brings up the apparent contradiction in usage just throw out a useless quote: “Well, I hated to do it, and really don’t want to have to do it often, but we really needed to win this game.”
Unless I'm wrong...
I'm repeating my call for
Carlos Rosa and Chris Hayes to be promoted.
In other news, at breakfast this morning I saw a picture of Joakim Soria. It was on my milk carton. (Have you seen this reliever? Call 816-921-xxxx)
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
by loyal2sdad on Jul 19, 2009 7:22 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
hasn't Rosa been beat up badly in Omaha
but seriously…. Jamey Wright needs to go. John Bale needs to go. Juan Cruz needs to go.
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
Rosa has been dominate lately
Whatever reason he was rocked early on in the season, he seems to past that and back to being a stud.
Hayes and Rosa absolutely should be promoted, but I have no faith that this group of Front Office Clowns will do anything right except for suck.
how sure are you that he's not getting Farnsworth-esque duties?
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
Rosa has been better recently, but Yabuta has been solid all year and needs to get the call
Hayes just got promoted and can’t strike anyone out
Davies and Yabuta should be in the pen over Wright and Bale
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 19, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
how many 25 man roster members have legitimate reasons to be pissed at Trey?
I’d imagine a majority of them have a legitimate gripe with Trey the Moron
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
if he lost the team last year
he sure as shit hasnt done anything to win them back
-
I might need to update this poster to reflect the pornstache though
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 19, 2009 7:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
which maybe is the one thing he did that makes sense? Sorry, but I'm unable
to see how every pitcher on Tampa is lights out and everyone of ours but 3 (corrected. forgot Soria, but, no matter.) is ready for retirement.
GREAT post.
In my mind, it’s as simple as :
“thinkers” = Decisions & actions are based on reason, logic, & information. Able to withstand criticism, willing to hear the “other side”.
“feelers” = Decisions & actions are based on faith, hope, & opinion. Tendency to fly off the handle when doubted or called into question, not even accepting of the possibility that they might be wrong about something.
Now, not all “thinkers” are non-Christian, but 99% of “feelers” ARE Christian.
We just got thru w/8 years of our country being run by “feelers”, & I’m seeing more & more of this kind of junk from Moore & Co.
I think you need a better term than “feelers”, because to me it implies sensitivity to external stimuli. Something more involuted, perhaps even intransigent.
How about: “non-thinkers”.
Granted
“Feelers” probably isn’t the best term.
And to clarify ( posting this idea may have not been the best idea…it’s been a rough weekend, & I’m beat ) – I don’t mean to imply that Christians are “stupid” or that “thinkers” are superior beings. It’s just that it’s been my experience that the 2 groups approach things differently, & it’s my opinion that the “thinkers” are generally the people that make the decisions that make the world a better place.
99% of "feelers" ARE Christian
Where do free-market enthusiasts, neo-Luddites, and suicide bombers fit into this taxonomy? Just asking.
suicide bombers are usuallly doped up on opium
so they aren’t feelers because they can’t feel anything when they are high
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 19, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Well...
suicide bombers, while usually “religious” also tend to be “batshit crazy”. So it’s a whole new category, I guess.
by DiggityDawg on Jul 19, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
or humanities professors who think they are "thinkers"
except they denigrate inferential rationality to the point where their “thinking” is simply “feeling”
…not unlike Dayton Moore and Trey Hillman.
“They can’t educate.”
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Dark Sarcasm, However
Seems entirely appropriate.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 20, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
let's be fair to Bush and Cheney
they actually accomplished a thing or two (granted Bush is obviously the worst two-term President ever)
you give Dayton and Trey 8 years, and you’re going to have a ghost town at the K
The problem isn’t that Dayton and Trey are Christians, the problem is that they suck at their jobs.
Now, anybody got a clip of that video where DM talks about how you can’t overcome failure without Jesus?
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 19, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
in the case of Dayton
he sucks at his job because he has an 1980s mentality on how to win games in the 21st century. Also, he makes promises about speed and defense, and has provided neither on this team. Also he spends money on shitty players.
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
Agreed on all of that.
And it’s a whoooole other discussion.
by DiggityDawg on Jul 19, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
what do you mean by 1980's mentality
is there a some kind of “philosophy” about how to build a winning franchise that differs from decade to decade?
Atlanta was consistently good because they had 3 HOF pitchers. Their offense was never very good so It’s no coincidence Moore is struggling to put together even a remotely competent offensive team. The Braves won their division I think 14 straight years and still have only 1 WS title in that span, which is pretty poor when you think about it.
He does suck at his job. It was an interesting debate before the season because some of his moves were clear successes: Meche, Soria, Greinke contract, Ram Ram. However, his moves this offseason were very questionable, and as they have failed, Moore’s supposed skill of putting together a makeshift bullpen with castoffs from other teams has been exposed; it was just a myth, one that should cost him his job.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 20, 2009 7:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, 1980s strategy
i.e. before OBP was valued as a statistic
As a sidenote, does anyone here seriously think Atlanta makes that same run without just one of their “Big 3” starting pitchers? Dayton is trying to do the same thing here, but he can’t find his 3rd guy, and the pen is so bad, it doesn’t matter.
OBP wasn't valued before the 1980s?
Cf. this article by Branch Rickey from the 1950s for the technical journal of baseball nerds, AKA, Life Magazine.
Goodbye to some Old Baseball Ideas
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by Matt Klaassen on Jul 20, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I meant widely valued, and highly valued
I’m sure it was valued, but BA, RBIs, and GWRBIs were way more important then.
so far i have been too impressed with our new "thi n kers" in the whitehouse
maybe obama would be a better GM. obama for gm?
-
there are some things too hard for Obama
being President right now is one thing, being the Royals GM is a bit more daunting and less rewarding
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
so
where’s the “Yuni rules” posts now that he’s 2 for 12?
guess those guys are back on the Chiefs SN site
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
12 at-bats is not a sample size
I’d much rather attack Buck and his .209 average. This is his SIXTH season and he has yet to bat .250!
Rays fan here.
Greinke is awesome. Everything else…well, I hope the defense doesn’t cost Greinke the CY.
he can pitch around the defense
the real question is can he win the cy young going 12-10 with a 1.99 era
-
the Royals offense will cost Greinke a Cy Young
also, Dayton is the next Chuck LaMar
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
The other thing that's awesome
is knowing that your team is nearly invulnerable with a lead going to the 9th.
I think.
We'll Have To
Try that “lead going into the 9th” thing again sometime. I remember that time we did it; it was awesome.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 19, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Fantastick!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 19, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd and Retweeted
Written like someone forced to read Voegelin by a professors at a Catholic university
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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This is what I don't understand
Trey wants to only have Soria pitch to three hitters. So he can be saved for use later. When exactly does he plan to use him? in a 3 game series with the Angels when Sir Sid and Chen are the starters? I may be wrong, but I suspect that those games will not be one run or tied games going into the ninth inning. If he had only used Soria once this weekend for 5 outs, our chances of having at least one win would have been much greater. What the hell is he saving him for?
I guess it is like the guy trying to decide when to buy stock, but won’t pull the trigger because the stock might go up or down and he won’t get maximum value.
Excellent post, Will.
How close are we to hoping that the team continues its downward spiral because it means that Trey will get the axe? I’m not there yet. I like Greinke, Banny, and Luke too much to wish them ill.
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
Remember that Trey's just the symptom
Moore’s defenses of Trey just prove it
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by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Moore's defenses are required by the situation.
Even if he realizes Trey is not awesome, it would be seriously unprofessional to rip the manager to the media (unless you’ve just fired him to save your own job). So you have to say all the right things.
/takes of positive spin glasses.
Of course, I agree with you in spirit: It’s Moore’s actual moves that prove Trey is only the symptom.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 19, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
good points
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by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Especially when the alternative is
saying “what do you expect from the guy? He is working with a joke of a team.”
That's the problem
The bullpen sucks. Wright, Bale, Horam, Colon should not be professional baseball players and were never good, but Cruz, Tejeda and Mahay have been in the past , but are just as pathetic as the former group.
You can blame Trey for his refusal to pitch Soria in the 7th or 8th. He doesn’t possess the wisdom to do something bold & original. If you won’t use Soria earlier in the game because of the “closer” stigma, even after acknowledging your bullpen is absolute shit, there is no hope for him. Soria is our best relief pitcher by far, and he should be anchoring that group by pitching the MOST innings in the 7th, 8th and 9th. I never understood why a closer is deemed more important than a 7th or 8th inning guy when he is pitching more innings. Just because it’s the last inning doesn’t mean that inning # 9 is more important than inning # 7
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 20, 2009 7:20 AM EDT up reply actions
As long as it is for 4 outs and not 5.
Don’t want to risk an injury to one of our best pitchers.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
When exactly does he plan to use him?
He’s not going to bang his head against the wall defending things he does or does not do in trying to educate the masses about things that, quite frankly, he can’t educate.
So you’re stuck with your lack of understanding.
And no baseball questions.
Actually, It Might
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 19, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah... what a tease
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by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
woops, hit post too soon:
“Something big coming?”
-JPosnanski’s twitter feed
This is either indicative of a firing or he’ll be pointing out that the 1975 Reds are playing on ESPN classic at midnight.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 19, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
He Is Available
But to be sure, we’d better offer 3/30M.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 19, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He's having lunch with Pete Rose tomorrow
to discuss Tom Watson, maybe he ponies
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by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
time to run up a twitter rumor frenzy!
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by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
No, He Needs
To age a few more years and get his OPS below .700; then we make our move.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 19, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just thinking
Last year we bitched about a slightly below average player who was miscast in his position, but didn’t truly suck. This year we get treated to numerous players who truly and utterly suck and should probably just be released…
Ross Gload, you mean?
OH, I think we can be pretty confident in saying he sucked.
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by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
usually Royals managers wait until the Toronto series to resign and
usually Royals GMs wait until the manager wins a game to fire him
remember, it’s been 7 years since a manager has been fired in KC and that came after a win in the first game of a road trip, instead of after a 13-0 loss at home
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
teams generally fire managers on the road
because the media coverage is far less….just your hardcore beat writer types…at least that’s what I’ve heard. I have no stats to back it up.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 20, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah Willie was fired after a win in California by email in early morning
Omar “classy” Minaya
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 20, 2009 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I would've rec'd this had it just been the title and picture alone.
The additional humor is gravy. Or as Trey would put it: “not without its own needed functionality.”
My view from (above) the bullpen
My son and I were standing at the railing above the Royals failpen bullpen today starting in the top of the 7th. John Mizerock (who seems like a good guy) even tossed my son a ball after he yelled something encouraging (really) to Wright while Wright was warming up. i guess they aren’t hearing a lot of postive comments these days.
My main points, based on my observations, are:
1. Soria is completely healthy. He must have thrown 50 warm up pitches and looked great. He threw at least enough pitches to get 5 outs.
2. Soria is not happy about not being used. He and Mizerock exchanged several shrugs and looks during the 8th inning that, in my amateur opinion, looked very, very much like both of them were pissed about Hillman’s decisions. Even Colon, when he got up to get loose, gave Soria a look and shrug that sure seemed to be a “this is really stupid” gesture. And as soon as the bottom of the 8th ended, with the Royals still behind, Soria went back to the bullpen bench and plopped down in a very dejected manner.
Maybe I read all of this wrong, but I feel pretty comfortable about both points. At minimum, I have no concerns about Soria’s health based on watching him warm up today.
by Black and Gold on Jul 20, 2009 1:55 AM EDT reply actions 7 recs
I Hate Life
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 20, 2009 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the insight
So why haven’t any reporters asked Soria about what he thinks about all this non-use while the team continually blows up in late & close situations? Or do the Royals thought police not allow him to speak to the media?
by swing and a miss on Jul 20, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Soria would give a cliche response
My wife and I like to quote one of his TV interviews he did a while back.
“You know, I just like to win.”
It loses something without the Mexican accent.
Interesting clue
Are you absolutely certain what you saw wasn’t a hologram? If not, I’ll have to abandon my theory, which was: Soria is on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan.
We may have to hone in on the possible reasons why he is in the ballpark but not pitching. If only we could think of any that made any sense.
by 2X2L on Jul 20, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
your mistake here is that
you are trying to make sense out of something that isn’t based on logical thinking, real data or analysis, but rather on a “gut feeling” and his experience.
I’m not saying that you need to manage with a laptop in the dugout (although that would be refreshing to see), but if something doesn’t work out two games in a row, maybe trying something different would be a good idea. I’m just saying…
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
I think I saw a similar thing
Saturday nite. I was over in the “Rany” section, where there was a nice view into the bullpen.
After getting warmed up, Soria was just squatting down. And he kinda had a “Well? I’m waiting” look/demeanor about him.
by DiggityDawg on Jul 20, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
It looks like you guys have found your 2009 Royals slogan (or at least the perfect new Royals Review subtitle)
The 2009 Kansas City Royals:
I can’t educate. There’s just too much
by Decatur on Jul 20, 2009 2:02 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
See Above
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 20, 2009 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions
So
seems like Trey feels a bit guilty over the whole Meche thing and now he’s getting really protective with Soria and Greinke
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
I don't think Meche having 132 pitches is a huge deal
He’s a professional player. He could have came out on his own. I’ve seen him gesture to the dugout with a “I’m finished” signal several times. He wanted the CG shutout by himself, more than Hillman wanted him to stay in their for 9 innings. If Meche wanted to stay in, and Hillman knows how terrible his bullpen is, why is it such a big deal for him to pitch 132 innings one start. You can argue he was injured and should have been on a lesser pitch count, but he was having back problems BEFORE that start and everyone is bringing up his 132 pitches as the CAUSE for his back problems, when they probably have nothing or very very little to do with them. Pitchers used to throw 132 + innings all the time. Most teams had 4 men rotations too. Not sure when pitchers became pussies lol
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 20, 2009 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it's just the 132 pitches,
it’s that his next couple of starts were something like 121 and 114 pitches. Then, he gets shelled, “a little dead arm”, and now back problems.
I agree that 132 pitches here and there shouldn’t ruin a guy, but add all of it up and it probably starts taking a toll.
If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.
Pitchers aren't conditioned to throw more than 120 pitches anymore
If they were doing it all through the minor leagues like in the old days then of course they could, but they don’t because everyone wants to protect their investments so today’s pitchers aren’t trained to have that kind of stamina. Trey allowing Meche and only Meche to throw a ton of pitches is stupid though. I honestly think he’s afraid of guys like Meche and Guillen and tiptoes around their wishes instead of doing what’s right for the team and the player’s health.
by swing and a miss on Jul 20, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
The usage of Meche other than 132
was pretty irresponsible, and Trey might consider some of that to be a bad idea. Like 121 after a ‘dead arm’ in like 6 innings.
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
This is far beyond mere greatness.
Truly amazing wordsmithery.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice." -Ichiro
eh.. meh. BTW is this Jared Allen? If so, hi.
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I've got to be the one jerk here
and say easy there with the wordiness there, bro. I think you’re making a good point, but I don’t want to be filtering fluff from content so early in the morning.
yeah he must read a lot of books and stuff
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haha, ok
i guess it ran a bit long… i was pent up after having done nothing but links posts for a few weeks
All we need to remember is that this is all the Glass' fault
Since Sir Glass-a-lot took over this team we have become the Wal Mart Royals – where, for the opposition, wins come cheap. The Glass’ somehow confused business savvy with baseball know-how and at some point voiced opinions on which players to sign (Vernon Wells?). The Glass’ are fucktards who need to get the hell out of town. Call Miles Prentice back and apologize lol. DM should be fired for stubbornly supporting Hillman. Hillman should be fired because he, like DM, doesn’t have a clue about what it takes to win ballgames. Fuck DM. Any Christian such as Dayton wouldn’t harm a team as much as he has right? Well that’s why I am not a Christian! lol
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Instead of calling for Hillman's head call for Daytons first and foremost!
Then Hillman part will take care of itself.
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I just read Mellinger's POS article
I think I am going to puke. Hillman is assured of being here next year, too? And “he has the chance to be one of the very best baseball men in a generation.” Holy Crap!!! Maybe I have a chance of being the Pope someday, too!
At least the clubhouse atmosphere is good. I’ll take a relaxed clubhouse over a winning team any day.
I’m in shock. I had no idea I could actually feel worse about being a Royals fan right now, but Dayton Moore just made it happen.
by Black and Gold on Jul 20, 2009 11:40 AM EDT reply actions
You are quite smart
If my English teacher talked about baseball more instead of acting like a pompous douchebag, I might have paid attention more.
Derosa.
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