Dayton Moore Tells Fans to Trust the Process, Ignore Reality
One of my favorite things about Dayton Moore is how he's always right there to tell you how awesome he is.
"Let’s just trust the process. If other people don’t want to trust the process, that’s fine. If other people want to abandon the process, then abandon it. I’m not abandoning the process. I believe in the process.
"You get a good group of people together. You work hard together. You trust in one another. You go through the difficult times. You work hard to make good decisions. You keep guys together and, eventually, it will happen."
Working hard is not a process, it is simply toil. Belief in... I guess yourself and your group is not a process either. Basically, Dayton's described something between a particularly Maoist-bent cult and a generic American family. Neither is likely well-suited to run the Royals.
Everyone works hard in Major League Baseball. The Padres, right now, are working hard. The Indians are burning the midnight oil. The Pirates are burning the candle at both ends. So telling us you're working hard doesn't mean much. It's rather like a basketball coach saying, "we've got tall guys".
But if you are curious, that "process" is, apparently, the following: get older players, get injury-prone players, get expensive players. Then, complain about injuries and payroll limitations. The process also includes fielding the worst defensive team in the American League, having no legitimate position player prospects who are of drinking age, and cornering the market on the most hacktastic players in baseball. The process includes a Ponson-Chen doubleheader.
Wow, Coco Crisp got hurt and Kyle Farnsworth "underperformed". I'm stunned. Nobody saw that coming.
Oh, and the process also means never growing, evolving, or getting better. Why worry about that? There's no need to change or react of adapt or get out ahead of the competition, because nothing is broken. Trust the process.
Trust the process that has done so, so, so much in Kansas City. The process that took one of the worst Royals teams ever and had them briefly ascend to quasi-mediocre-but-still-mostly bad. Because no one has ever done that before. Well, no one, except a score of failed GMs from here to wherever Cam Bonifay is living. Bad teams "rise up" and win 75 games all the time. It's actually unbelievably common. In fact, that's what makes the Royals so amazing: they do the impossible by staying in the 60-win column more than anybody else.
Trust the process.
And since it's a Moore story, you know this is coming:
"I go back to the same thing all of the time," he said. "If our processes were so poor, how were we able to put together a pretty good team in the off-season? We went through the process, and most people around baseball felt we were vastly improved.
Yea, people loved it when you brought in Mike Jacobs. They loved the Kyle Farnsworth deal. They were thrilled to have Jose Guillen for another two years. They loved the depth Bruce Chen offered the pitching staff. They wanted to see more and more and more of Tony Pena Jr. They raved about what Willie Bloomquist was going to mean to this team, this town, this whole damn region.
Here's what people really loved about the 2009 Royals: the chance to make a prediction. That's it. The 2008 Rays made everyone a little embarrassed -- well, except the BP people who predicted their rise -- so in 2009 everyone had to find "this year's Rays". A few chose the Royals. Hey, there are only so many fourth place teams out there to chose from.
Have you ever heard someone who has actually won talk like this? Have you ever heard Bill Parcells or Theo Epstein or that guy in New England say, "well, everyone in the league loved what we did in the off-season, so we feel good about it"?
Why should we trust Dayton Moore's process? Because he was good at a lesser job five yeas ago in Atlanta? Because he heroically guided the team to a fourth place finish, by one game, last season? Because we've gone three days without a top Royal prospect being promoted for no reason? What is there to trust in?
Dutton's piece contains other delights, such as the opening in which Moore defends his regime by arguing that the Royals have suffered from enough change over the years. Funny, I remember Allard Baird being given six years. Herk Robinson's reign lasted even longer. But again, why bother with the facts that matter, when you can obscure things with the facts that don't.
But all this swinging bravado and idiocy wasn't enough for a page and a half story. No, far from it. Here's my favorite part:
Moore points to the club’s 18-11 start, prior to the onset of injuries to several key players, as validation of the organization’s approach.
Yes, 18-11 means everything. Tells us all we need to know. Sure, the team is 19-46 since 18-11, but a general principle of statistics is that the smaller set of data is always more instructive.
Trust the process.
Zack Greinke, a player who Moore did not draft or acquire, is having -- no hyperbole -- one of the best seasons any pitcher has had this decade. The Royals are 10-9 in games he's started. The 2009 Royals were built to contend this year, after Moore spent two years solidly in win-now mode, and the 2009 Royals are horrible.
Who do the Royals have waiting in the wings for 2010 that isn't here now? Essentially, no one.
We aren't playing Stratego here. The game is constantly changing, evolving, moving and shifting. This is happening from the field to the owner's suite. Moore and his team are coming off like a former #1 pick who reached the Majors, had a nice rookie year, and has decided he doesn't have to adjust his approach at the plate ever again.
I try not to make it personal when I write about the Royals, I really do. Here's the problem, in the last two weeks, both Moore and Hillman have revealed that their personalities are clearly part of the problem. Being this arrogant, being so utterly unable to admit a mistake, is a moral failing. Conducting oneself as if the very idea of criticism is somehow laughable, is a moral failing.
Prior to this season, Trey Hillman reflected on his first year managing the Royals and came to the conclusion that the main thing he needed to change was... was... was... no, really... was how much he read the Bible. Really. Such a stupendously bizarre statement, and yet one that barely raised an eyebrow, so bombarded we are with insanity on a daily basis.
What's the old saying about pride and a man's fall?
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157 comments
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Comments
wonderful
“If our processes were so poor, how were we able to put together a pretty good team in the off-season?”
Didn’t know we played any games then.
Also…
“I go back to the same thing all of the time,” he said. “If our processes were so poor, how were we able to put together a pretty good team in the off-season? We went through the process, and most people around baseball felt we were vastly improved.”
by wildthang on Jul 23, 2009 2:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The final part of the process:
Moore’s team loses 110 games, Moore is fired, and the Royals’ ownership hires Tony LaCava as your GM.
Seriously. DMGM and Hillman are making it as east as humanly possibly to get themselves fired and spark a repudiation of their old school crap.
by Decatur on Jul 23, 2009 3:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Doubtful
although Glass might fire GMDM unless the next guy can convince Glass that stats can provide better “bang for buck” than traditional methods, I assume that Glass will go cheap again on the GM, manager, minors, etc.
If the team is gonna suck, it might as well suck and be cheap, right?
. . . a weary nation turns to Gil Meche
by vegasroyals on Jul 23, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Note to Dayton:
Your team wasn’t that good in the offseason. Do you suddenly forget being lambasted for signing Bloomquist? Farnsworth? What about the criticism for bringing in Jacobs and/or Crisp? I didn’t know there was an off-season win-loss record, in which we apparently were “pretty good.”
It seems like he thinks everyone else is running around claiming the sky is falling, when nothing could be further from the truth. He honestly thinks that he’s building things the right way, and even though the results don’t show themselves now…they will in due time (hint: you have to stay employed long enough to see them).
For a lame personal example, I got recruited to coach a competitive youth baseball team this summer that didn’t win a game last season. Our season wrapped up this past weekend, and while we still weren’t great this year, we won half a dozen games or so and showed vast improvement throughout the season (not really due to me, but the kids gaining confidence/experience). But I gave the kids the example of building a house—and how last year was the rough stretch of laying the foundation, pouring the basement….and this year we did some good things and put some walls up….but there’s still plenty of work to be done, etc.
Unfortunately the Royals seem to be building a house full of construction mistakes——but Kansas City, don’t lose faith! Just wait until Dayton Moore constructs our very own version of San Jose’s Winchester Mystery House!



by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 23, 2009 3:37 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Ok, I had to look up the Winchester Mystery House
but that was a fun read. So, basically, Winchester’s husband and daughter die and she thinks ghosts are haunting the house and only continuous (nonsensical) building on the house will appease them.
by sterlingice on Jul 23, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol...wow
Dayton should just quit talking, because some of those quotes are unbelievable. Who gives a flying F if he thought the team looked good on paper? It’s been complete garbage, don’t blame it on injuries, what the hell. Who has been injured? Aviles and Gordon? Guillen was going to suck injured or otherwise… whoopty freakin’ do.
Losers make excuses…
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by slayor on Jul 23, 2009 4:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
he sounds a lot like Herm last season.
A whole lotta BS.
by wildthang on Jul 23, 2009 4:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Great comparison
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts exactly
when I read this the only thing I could think of is Herm talking about how it takes time to build a team and win. Is that just the fall back for KC personnel when they have no clue what they are doing?
by KCBucksFan on Jul 24, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Before I just thought Hillman and Dayton were dumb and misguided
Now it’s becoming more and more obvious that they are also assholes. It’s making it much easier to root against them.
by Soria's Unibrow on Jul 23, 2009 4:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No they are stupid assholes and are getting defensive trying to prove how they are right and "common people" are wrong
I want them both out of here and Im not comfortable winning with them. In other words, I want the Royals to suck if both are back next year because they are pieces of shit, especially Moore.
Hillman might deserve another chance.
THERE WAS NO ISSUE WITH HILLMAN’S BULLPEN USE LAST YEAR BECAUSE THE PLAYERS WERE BETTER REMEMBER!!!!
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 23, 2009 7:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't wait to sign Chad Tracy next year
by wildthang on Jul 23, 2009 5:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Two year extension for Ryan Freel!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Switch "process" for "plan"
And he sounds EXACTLY like a certain former GM of this club…
by kcbottom9th on Jul 23, 2009 6:27 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
“We’ve got to follow the plan”
I can’t wait until Moore breaks the process into steps, and pronounces that we’re done with step 1 and moving on to step 2
Unless I'm wrong...
by Top Ramen on Jul 23, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DM = underpants gnomes
Phase 1: Assemble expensive, below average players
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: CHAMPIONSHIP!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Possibly the funniest comment I've read on this blog
The ? followed by CHAMPIONSHIP! had me in tears
SHOMER SHABBOS!
by ratherfantastic on Jul 23, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ironic
"We’re not going to make quick, hasty decisions and lose patience…"
- Dayton Moore
If only at least a few of your hitters had that same approach, sir…
by cookierojas73 on Jul 23, 2009 6:36 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
The process is trading away your two best middle relievers for position players that suck
1 is hurt and the other is so bad he can’t eve get playing time on the worst offensive team in the AL, or baseball for that matter – atleast SD has Gonzalez and Pitt has Mccutchen/Garret Jones lighting it up.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 23, 2009 7:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A bullpen with
Ramon and Leo would have made a big difference this year and got us to the closer. Now the Royals are stuck with Farnsworth and Cruz. Big mistake Dayton.
by BlueBloodRoyal on Jul 23, 2009 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is the only way you can look at it
I’ve said time and time again the Crisp and Jacobs trades would define Moore’s tenure. They have both MISERABLY failed and the team is in a freefall.
Nunez has a 3.64 ERA with over 46 appearances and 13 holds…Ram Ram has a 1.08 Whip and 2.25 ERA in 39 appearances.
Either of them would have been our best reliever BY FAR becuase Soria doesn’t count – he doesn’t pitch. Both of them would have made us a .500 team right now without question (also because Mike Jacobs could have never played and Coco, who was the worst CF in baseball it seems over that last month he played injured)
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 23, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nunez has 13 Holds and 6 Saves!
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 23, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That shows the NL is weaker than the AL.
Remember, Jacobs put up good numbers in the NL.
by jbrocato on Jul 23, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They would have been a vast imporvement
but the two of them would not make the Royals a .500 team without question. They’d still be dealing with the worst offense in baseball.
by BrRoyal on Jul 23, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention your best pitching prospect
for a position player who sucks
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Jul 23, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does this remind me of at 5 in the morning?
the settlement of the Czechoslovakian problem, which has now been achieved is, in my view, only the prelude to a larger settlement in which all Europe may find peace.
So shut up and trust the process.
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by 2X2L on Jul 23, 2009 8:03 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Nice call
It reminded me of:
Ned: Well do something. This is all your fault. You and your stupid program!
Homer: Blame me if you must, but don’t ever speak ill of the {rogram! The Program is rock solid! The Program is sound!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes!
I was looking for that very quote in response to you weeks ago… can’t believe I couldn’t find it. What site did i miss?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't remember
Its from “Viva Ned Flanders”
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"most people around baseball felt we were vastly improved."
This is why it is so important for me to voice my opinion in the off-season that Dayton’s moves are a big ball of suck.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2009 9:22 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You don't count
You’re not a “baseball man” who doesn’t need to be “educated” as to how major league talent is evaluated.
Yeah, it was a stupid screen name.
by CentralChamps2009 on Jul 23, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, now he gets credit for drafting Luke and keeping Zack?
Moore suggested some of the organization’s better moves are often overlooked — particularly upgrades in the rotation, long an organizational weakness.
The Royals, under his watch, signed Gil Meche, drafted Luke Hochevar, traded for Brian Bannister and worked out a four-year deal with Zack Greinke. The rotation is now generally viewed as the club’s top strength.
"I’m always re-evaluating decisions that we make," Moore said. "All of the time. But Luke Hochevar, does he look good for us? Banny? Zack? Zack’s had a breakout year. Boy, I’m glad we were proactive and aggressive with that.
Signing Greinke was a no-brainer. An 8 year old could have done that.
I thought he wasn’t involved when Hochevar was drafted?
He can get 4, NOT 5.
by Warden11 on Jul 23, 2009 9:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
An 8-year-old could have WANTED to do that
Succeeded? I don’t know. Allard Baird didn’t succeed too much in getting good players, who would continue to perform well, signed to long-term contracts.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Jul 23, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GMDM
Didn’t draft Hoch Deric Ladnier was in charge of that draft
www.royalsonradioetc.com maybe worth the time but I wouldn't bet on that.
by RoyalsonRadioetc on Jul 23, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dayton disagrees apparently
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he does now that luke is pitching well...
if he was struggling in AAA dayton would have nothing to do with it
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 24, 2009 5:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah exactly!
He’s really going out on a limb to make himself look good. I just doesn’t get it. He’s not going to look good and should be self-critical. Absolutely pathetic. He’s trying to make himself look good while the team fucking blows. I think he’s a piece of shit and want him gone!
Guillen was a failure, Jacobs was a failure, Coco was a failure (because he got hurt), J Wrong was a failure, Cruz was a failure, Ponson was a failure, Chen was a failure and right now Bloomquist is starting to look like a failure
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 24, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
betcancourt's got a sweet 447 OPS
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 24, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no reason to trust the process
We’ve seen the products of this process. Most of the products of this process (including but not limited to Gathright, Guillen, Gload, Farnsworth, HoRam, Olivo and Betancourt) not only have failed but show that the Royals front office process is horribly flawed. They show little interest and no understanding of statistical analysis or player value. That process isn’t going to make the Royals competitive. This front office will not make the Royals competitive. Next.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2009 10:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if you find it ironic
that after years of criticizing almost all of his moves, the one time i semi-supported a player acquired by Moore, it will end up making me lose a bet.
Unlike Moore, though, I will admit I was wrong. (See signature)
this space reserved for something embarrassing nyroyal will have me say
by marbotty on Jul 23, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure what I’m going to have your signature say. But it will be the written equivalent of having you pull your pants down in public. (ok, not really)
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Jul 23, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUT HE CAN STILL TURN IT AROUND!!@!!
this space reserved for something embarrassing nyroyal will have me say
by marbotty on Jul 24, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stopped by from the McCovey Chronicles
Giants suck since the break, so I started reading Royals review during the Angels series to remember what it was like to be in a truly hopeless situation. From an outsiders perspective, you guys are dead on about the two-headed monster of Moore and Hillman. It is pretty amazing to be so inept at what you do….yet so swelled with arrogance and pride about how badly you do it. Everything I read from these two, from “I can’t educate” to “believing in the process” is so amazingly condescending.
“Don’t worry little Royal fans we’ve got all the answers, you’re just not enlightened enough for us to bother to attempt explaining to YOU”! Not since W has a combination arrogance, dismissiveness, and ineptitude combined to form such a total ball of suck. Good luck to you Royal fans in ridding yourselves of this beast.
by BigDaddyK on Jul 23, 2009 10:56 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Thanks, BigDaddy,
If we don’t make it out alive, tell of our plight, share our message, let the world know… we were here.
Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?
by royalsroyalsroyals on Jul 23, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
your welcome for not drafting Lincecum by the way.
Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures
by averagegatsby on Jul 23, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
took the words right out of my mouth
or keyboard, or whatever.
SHOMER SHABBOS!
by ratherfantastic on Jul 23, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you ask DMGM
I’m sure he would have drafted the Franchise if he was in control. just ask him
by BigDaddyK on Jul 23, 2009 11:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hopefully the sun will rise again for you unfortunately caught in the eternal darkness that is DayTrey. If not…your story will be told by survivors of other apocalyptic front offices.
by BigDaddyK on Jul 23, 2009 11:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i prefer Treyton
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 24, 2009 5:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's GMDM supposed to say?
But he should realize that some humility is in order. No one wants to hear the GM of a 37-57 team say to hell with the unbelievers. His performance on 810 the other morning wasn’t encouraging either.
We can only hope that GMDM soon realizes that his “process” (hiring a bunch of talented but conservative old-school baseball guys and ignoring statistical analysis) isn’t working and will not work.
Unfortunately, GMDM’s quotes indicate that he has no respect for the opinions of those not in the Inner Circle of Baseball Men. Apparently Trey feels the same way. A little humility would go a long way with these guys.
by hippdoghipp on Jul 23, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How about:
“Well, we thought we were fairly close last off-season. We made a few deals from what we thought was a position of strength to shore up a few spots. Obviously, those deals didn’t work out and our perception of our guys in the ’pen was a little off.”
He can get 4, NOT 5.
by Warden11 on Jul 23, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
say what you will about the tenants of old-school-baseball-ism, at least it's an ethos;
i’m not sure where trey’s coming from. he’s like a managerial nihilist who also spends time as a devout managerial catholic.
by stuckinstl12 on Jul 23, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Allard Baird was an abomination of a GM
But he was always very personable, didn’t make excuses, and seemed genuinely willing to try or consider new ideas.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
Allard sucked (with less resources, but whatever), but was a nice guy doing it. Moore sucks, and rubs me up the wrong way in the process.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 23, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bright Side
At least the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are on OUR side. So, we’ve got that going for us.
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Jul 23, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
'jesus no help with curveball'
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 24, 2009 5:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would Hay-Suess do?
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Jul 25, 2009 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clever and persuasive post, but grossly unfair.
GMDM laid out his thoughts however valid, invalid, delusional or otherwise. I would understand an analysis of thought process, but draw the line at attacking perceived personality flaws, arrogance, etc. I see very little in GMDM or Hillman that is arrogant or condescending. Questionably intelligent, disjointed and disfunctional maybe. Arrogant superiority complex, no. The post, as such, hits below the belt.
i’d also submit the proposition that GMDM’s biggest and main flaw as a GM might be identical to Baird’s—you’ve got to get someone in there who can manager. Baird never understood this basic concept and we might have the exact same problem at present.
by Coach Feb on Jul 23, 2009 12:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You think the manager is the problem?
I think we could have Casey Friggin Stengel and it wouldn’t make a lick of difference. Sure I think Trey is a dolt, but he’s cost us maybe 4-5 wins, when this team is some 20 games under .500.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and 3 or 4 in the last week, to be sure.
by Coach Feb on Jul 23, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe the rhetorical question should be added--
if managers indeed are as insignificance that everything they do affects the outcome of only 4 or 5 games, why all the consternation over Hillman? By my guess one of our stat geeks will eventually do a historical analysis relating wins and losses to good and bad managing. I’ll further guess that the 4-5 wins deals proposed in your post will then be proven to be fairly wide of the mark. Unknown to me how one can sit there and watch Hillman screw up game after game with questionable game strategy and say this only really affects 4 or 5 outcomes. You’re sounding like Brian MCrae. And, that’s to ignore the multiple other ways besides game strategy in which managers have an influence on outcomes.
by Coach Feb on Jul 23, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, the 2009 Royals are a devastating blow to the beliefs of "stat geeks"
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
questionably game strategy
and a lot of players who really suck.
by wildthang on Jul 23, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Consternation
Is always going to be directed at the manager because fans see directly what he does and does not do. But the GM has the much more important role of assembling the team – you just don’t see what happens in his office as far as wheeling and dealing, and not much happens for weeks on end.
I think Trey is a terrible manager who has cost us several games, but I don’t think we’d be anywhere near a .500 club with a good manager.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and i'm horrified with who dayton would replace him with
by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LARRY BOWA!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there goes the Royals' chances of signing Scott Rolen!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Hillman had Nunez and Ram Ram we wouldn't have said anything about the bullpen
We had them last year and can anyone seriously say the bullpen was ever criticized except for when Hillman brought in Gobble to face a right-hander?
You have to blame Moore anyway because he hired Hillman so it was his choice…..I think of my boss at work. She sucks at her job, but you have to blame the director that decided to promote her – bad choice, bad choice
by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 24, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe she thinks you suck at your job for posting on RR at work....
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 24, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Billy Martin would be best.
He could turn around any team amazingly well: From the Cheater’s Guide to Baseball
Unfortunately, he’s dead.
by Decatur on Jul 24, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we propped him in the corner
he’d still be better than Hillman.
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Jul 25, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mostly agree
I don’t care much for GMDM’s tone, particularly in the 810 interview, and I’m a little tired of hearing that he helped identify Rafael Furcal 10 years ago so I should trust him, but I don’t think it’s fair to jump all over DMGM or Trey because of what they say to The Star.
Most of us agree that DMGM has the wrong approach to building a winner, but any percieved condescension to the plebs is mostly irrelevant to how they perform. GMDM did help build a 14-time division winner in ATL, and Hillman did win a Japan Series. I understand why they have plenty of self-confidence.
I get that their perceived arrogance is relevant if GMDM is truly unrepentant about signing a bunch of old hacktastic bad fielders to unnecessarily expensive contracts and if Hillman really does believe that Soria can go 4 but not 5 outs, but I don’t think we can judge that based on an interview with Bob Dutton. Of course GMDM is going to say he’s got the process in place.
I’m cool with criticizing these guys based on their actions, but I wouldn’t get too worked up over what they tell reporters after a game.
by hippdoghipp on Jul 23, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the braves the last five years or so...
are more a reflection of dayton when he was higher up in that org than were the braves of 1996
by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even more telling
is they seem to have gotten smarter since Dayton left: Dayton acquires for Jose Guillen and Yuniesky Betancourt, the Braves acquire Javier Vazquez and Ryan Church.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're joking, right?
Arrogant superiority complex, no. The post, as such, hits below the belt.
He can get 4, NOT 5.
by Warden11 on Jul 23, 2009 12:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
damn it, that was a reply to Coach Feb.
He can get 4, NOT 5.
by Warden11 on Jul 23, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
very serious. i fail to see arrogance in good
faith stating his positions. you can analyze the positions without twisting
things into arrogance. I guess you’d have to define arrogance. maybe we’re
talking about different things.
by Coach Feb on Jul 23, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's bragged about not learning more
about not needing to expand his positions, etc
I’m not sure how you read those quotes and DON’T see arrogance
by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
read his quote at the beginning of Dutton's story
"Let me ask you this," Moore challenged. "How much success has this organization had (recently)? And how many changes have they made?"
The questions are, he knows, rhetorical and the answers obvious: None and a lot. And after a pause, he continues.
"OK, then," he said. "Let’s just trust the process.
sounds arrogant to me
by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RR quoted GMDM, Coach also included Hillman. So...
“I don’t have time to educate the masses on why I do some things”
That’s pretty f’ng arrogant.
He can get 4, NOT 5.
by Warden11 on Jul 23, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
quote on Moore's tombstone as GM
That’s the only way I know how to do it. It might not be the right way, but it’s the only way I know how to do it
"The life of a (Royals) fan must be lived forward but can only be understood backward" -- Kierkegaard (more or less)
by benfunke on Jul 23, 2009 12:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Isn't that second sentence just an admission of stupidity?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he can be a country music star
though not in KC, i presume
"The life of a (Royals) fan must be lived forward but can only be understood backward" -- Kierkegaard (more or less)
by benfunke on Jul 23, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite line:
Moore and his team are coming off like a former #1 pick who reached the Majors, had a nice rookie year, and has decided he doesn’t have to adjust his approach at the plate ever again.
Change #1 to ""first round" and this is so so perfect. I assume it was a deliberate reference?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 12:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My favoite line as well
But the following would have worked just as well and been shorter. “Dayton Moore is Yuniesky Betancourt.”
Proud father of a budding Royals fan.
by Skirra on Jul 23, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking Frenchy
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would work too.
I picked Yuni because he is now a pat of this mysterious thing called a “process.”
Proud father of a budding Royals fan.
by Skirra on Jul 23, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was The Devil
A first round pick?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 23, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was a latin american signing.
But if asked GMDM would undoubtedly say he was a first round or possibly #1 overall talent in 2005.
Proud father of a budding Royals fan.
by Skirra on Jul 23, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alex Gordon was a #2 overall pick
YB was allegedly valued more highly than Alex Gordon
Therefore…
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Therefore . . .
. . . Betancourt is number 2?
by Black and Gold on Jul 23, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
...at least
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Betancourt is #2
In that he plays like crap
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It also helps my case that Yuni is another of those rare guys the Royals seem to accumulate
that has a lower OBP than BA .182 /.174 /.273 /.447.
Proud father of a budding Royals fan.
by Skirra on Jul 23, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
rare = high value
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Jul 23, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rare Wine= Under
$2.00 a bottle.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 23, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any historians out there
did the GM before John Hart in Cleveland get canned or step aside?
BTW, check out our numbers in the minors. Our teams have low OBPs, horrendous K:BB ratios for hitters, and not much power
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 23, 2009 1:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's all on Allard
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by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good to see the organizational philosophy has trickled down to the minors
Player: “Coach, I just can’t seem to lay off the bad pitches, what should I do?”
Coach: “I’m sorry there’s just too much. I can’t educate”
Unless I'm wrong...
by Top Ramen on Jul 23, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's the process.
He can get 4, NOT 5.
by Warden11 on Jul 23, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at least they're consistent
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dear Xenu
just think about how insufferable Dayton’s going to be if his “process” ends up panning out….
Unless I'm wrong...
by Top Ramen on Jul 23, 2009 1:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I sometimes wonder about that, too,
and then realize that means the Royals would be winning which is way, way better and would make it worth it.
Then I realize that I needed concern myself.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it was kind of like the offseason
when we worried that the overall record this year might be better (due to Butler, Greinke, Gordon, Teahen) despite the overall team being worse (due to Crisp, Jacobs, Farnsworth, et al.)
Unless I'm wrong...
by Top Ramen on Jul 23, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Minor league stats
OBP
Naturals: .349 (3rd of 8)
Chukars: .338 (7th of 8)
DSL Royals: .333 (23rd of 33)
O-Royals: .331 (13th of 16)
Blue Rocks: .321 (7th of 8)
AZL Royals: .319 (11th of 11)
Bees: .310 (13th of 14)
B-Royals: .295 (10th of 10)
CHANGE
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 23, 2009 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Just out of idle interest
Can you find the A’s affiliates, or the Red Sox? An organization that cares about this type of thing at the big league level.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 23, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok then
Red Sox, OBP
DSL Red Sox: .379 (2nd of 33)
Portland Sea Dogs (AA): .341 (5th of 12)
Greenville Drive (A-SAL): .334 (4th of 16)
Salem Red Sox (A-Caro): .331 (5th of 8)
GCL Red Sox: .328 (5th of 16)
Lowell Spinners (NYPL): .315 (8th of 14)
PawSox (AAA): .308 (13th of 14)
A’s, OBP
Midland (AA-Tex): .371 (1st of 8)
Vancouver (NWL): .344 (5th of 8)
Sacramento (AAA): .338 (10th of 16)
AZL Athletics: .335 (7th of 11)
Stockton Ports (Cali): .334 (6th of 10)
Kane County Cougars (Midwest): .327 (6th of 14)
DSL Athletics: .322 (26th of 33)
The Royals and A’s have teams in the Texas, Midwest, AZL and DSL. Only the DSL Royals have a better OBP.
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 23, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty damning if you ask me
Thanks for looking it up
by kcbottom9th on Jul 23, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and remember that
the A’s are currently on a downslide and they’re as good as we are.
But they have talent coming, and we don’t.
Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman
by BHWick on Jul 23, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
those numbers really are amazing. putting together teams like that is hard to do. if only GMDM could use his superpowers for good instead of evil….
"The life of a (Royals) fan must be lived forward but can only be understood backward" -- Kierkegaard (more or less)
by benfunke on Jul 23, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Urge to kill…..rising
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was saying this the other nite...
…but with each day, this front office reminds me more of the Bush administration.
“18-11 means everything. Tells us all we need to know. Sure, the team is 19-46 since 18-11” = “he’s kept the country safe since 9-11”
You don’t get praise for doing your job well PART of the time.
I really don’t mean to make it political, but Jesus ( pun intended ) – the parallels are ridiculous. Again, it’s the difference between “thinkers” & “believers”.
by DiggityDawg on Jul 23, 2009 2:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's to the detriment of both "thinkers" and "believers" that each think/believe that the two are mutually exclusive
in whatever sphere of endeavor
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would actually agree -
I honestly don’t have a problem w/“believers”, even though I’m not one by any stretch of the imagination.
It’s when someone goes to one extreme or the other…w/Moore, etc. I see a whooooole lot of believing & not much thinking.
by DiggityDawg on Jul 23, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GMDM circa 2011? Or are we pushing that back some more?

by AxDxMx on Jul 23, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
That's friggin' RICH.
A++++++++++++++++++++
by DiggityDawg on Jul 23, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More
The Padres, right now, are working hard. The Indians are burning the midnight oil. The Pirates are burning the candle at both ends. So telling us you’re working hard doesn’t mean much. It’s rather like a basketball coach saying, “we’ve got tall guys”.
And I would take any of those front offices over KC’s current group in a heartbeat. Yes, even the Padres.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 2:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
re: Padres
Is Peavy a free agent after this year?
He can get 4, NOT 5.
by Warden11 on Jul 23, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nope
10:$15M, 11:$16M, 12:$17M, 13:$22M club option ($4M buyout)
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, I just wondered why they were trying (?)/shopping him recently.
I guess it’s because he’s so expensive, not because they’re going to lose him.
He can get 4, NOT 5.
by Warden11 on Jul 23, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a lot of money for a team int he Padres situation
but it’s not too bad for a pitcher of his quality (leaving out the option year)
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant to say I would take those teams FOs over DMGM's FO
I think you mean the team, not FO… I’d have to say it’s a toss-up with the Nats. Probably not — I fear the unknown.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Think Mellinger came up with this on his own or reacted after reading here?
It will be interpreted as Dayton Moore being delusional, as Dayton being arrogant, or Dayton being sensitive, or some combination of the three.
He can get 4, NOT 5.
by Warden11 on Jul 23, 2009 3:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
can't say
I think way more people than just me are reacting the same way… perhaps even Dutton himself
by royalsreview on Jul 23, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Royals dont deserve anymore chances.
What does an over $200 million renovated stadium and a horrible unorganized baseball franchise get you. I think we all know. As far as I’m concerned the Royals blew it years ago with the fan base, when they got rid of Damon, Dye and Beltran, all guys we developed. Imagine if we could of held on to at least a couple of those guys, how much of a different situation we would be in today. We had the best young outfield in baseball and we blew it.
by tthomp24 on Jul 23, 2009 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Digestion...
is a “process” – ironically, like DM’s “baseball process”, it also produces crap.
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Jul 23, 2009 4:15 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Beautiful
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 23, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
love it
You deserved Green, so I gave it to you.
One important distinction exists , though, between the two processes which you describe. Whereas digestion produces crap only in one direction, DM’s process produces crap in one direction and verbal, defensive crap in the other direction.
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Jul 23, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regurgitation
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 23, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah but at least another team has an event to celebrate.
Buerhle (half the pitcher of Greinke but with a better defense) pitches a perfect game.
F*CK THIS TEAM, THIS ORGANIZATION, AND THIS TOWN (for being so f’ing soft and patient with trash management – Moor would be gone in 90% of the other cities)
by Uscbalto on Jul 23, 2009 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Its a moot point though when the owner is conplacent.
I honestly think Glass doesn’t care as long as he is making a profit. And even bad baseball teams make profits.
Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures
by averagegatsby on Jul 23, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As someone said above
I used to think DM and Trey (in particular) weren’t huge problems, but just dumb baseball people who were just mediocre. But they both have had such arrogance in the face of criticism and defeat that they are now despicable.
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Jul 23, 2009 5:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
despicable?
I lean more towards “pathetic.”
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
both are right
neither is wrong
more a question of whether DM offends your morals (the former)
(i think he offends mine, but how can I really say that for sure without knowing a person and the motivations that drive him?)
"The life of a (Royals) fan must be lived forward but can only be understood backward" -- Kierkegaard (more or less)
by benfunke on Jul 23, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know how morals are evaluated
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Jul 23, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and i don’t have time to educate you and the rest of the royals fan base
that quote is never going to die
"The life of a (Royals) fan must be lived forward but can only be understood backward" -- Kierkegaard (more or less)
by benfunke on Jul 24, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'll be the first one to say that it'll be dead to me when hillman is gone....
i want to erase everything abuot him from my memory
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 24, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bravo
This season has just entirely disgusted me, and the team’s moves and quotes over the last couple of weeks have been the tipping point. I had been planning to get over there and make my first visit to the new K, but screw that. These morons are running the Royals into the ground, and the fewer people who watch this tragedy unfold daily, perhaps the quicker the organization gets the message that change is needed.
by KC Gunner on Jul 23, 2009 7:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's really totally sad.
This pretty much clues us in – umm, ok, slams us in the side of the head with a 2×6 – that we fans should carry NO hope, NO optimism. Not only for the remainder of this horrific season but also for next year and the next, at least.
Currently, I live in Mariners’ land and while I pay some attention to them I could never be a true fan probably since they are former AL West “rivals” and current AL “rivals”. But, I’ve been seriously thinking of debarking to San Diego, and if that happens it might truly free me annual Royal ass-shafting. I may be able to learn to love the Senior Circuit and be a Padres fan instead. Thanks DM.
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Jul 23, 2009 11:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You might be able to make a change, but remember: the Padres will still be the Padres.
by 2X2L on Jul 24, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Royal Fandom Is
A life sentence.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 24, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even Madoff can have hope
He can get out in 150 years.
Fuck This Team. Period.
The General Theory of Royaltivity
by kabrink on Jul 25, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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