Where's the franchise focus: Minors or Majors?

by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Jul 8, 2009 11:54 AM EDT Comment 25 comments

This was brought up earlier in recent posts but, how is Dayton doing with the minor league system? Furthermore, how long does it take to build an effective minor league system that will continually feed talent to the major league club.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dayton has been building the minors for 3 years now. Is it perhaps more of a focus of his energy than the major league club?

With the cupboard being as historically bare as it was can we reasonably expect any GM to be able to produce a winner on the field with virtually nothing to trade and a comparatively limited amount of cash to bring in free agents to a losing club.

GMDM believes that pitching is the currency in baseball, his signings and draft picks I feel have shown this to be his true philosophy (even though Farnsy, HoRam and Ponson are below Mexican pesos). I foresee more impactful moves down the line when all the pitchers we've drafted start to flourish. When someone can step in and take over for a Meche or a Greinke (both awesome signings), then we will be able acquire in more legit trades, what we need to be a true competitor. Instead of hoping to catch lightning in a bottle (hope Farnsy, Ponson, HoRam don't suck as bad this year philosophy).

Personally I expect a 2-3 year window from this date before serious results will be seen on the field at Kauffman stadium. What are your thoughts on this?

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Personally I expect a 2-3 year window from this date before serious results will be seen on the field at Kauffman stadium. What are your thoughts on this?

Unfortunately, yes I do think this is true. As much as it sucks, baseball is very difficult to turn around when you’re dealing with a franchise that was in as bad a shape as ours was/trying to get out of. This isn’t the NFL where salary caps create abundant parity. I’m sure there have been studies or research done on this. But I would figure a minimum of 5 years is what it takes to start seeing results throughout your system. If after 5 you aren’t seeing improvement and prospects aplenty, then the job is probably not getting done.

by I need more Esteban on Jul 8, 2009 12:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

There was an in-depth post in this subject not long ago.

It drew comparisons to other franchises and their timelines, someone will remember where it is I’m sure.

If I recall correctly historically it was showing a five-year minimum to be fairly consistent.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on Jul 8, 2009 12:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Quick answer

Pearl, Mississippi

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Jul 8, 2009 1:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Home of the Mississippi Braves

And LeeAnn Rimes. Yeah, I can google.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on Jul 8, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good post

I’ve made this point before – because the farm system Moore inherited was so barren (due nearly exclusively to the shitty ownership decisions of the Glass family, IMHO), and because Moore began by drafting (mostly) high school prospects, I think the system won’t be fully functional for a good 5 or 6 years since they “reformed” their approach to player development. That means, as you stated, that they are still 2-3 years away from having a system capable of supporting the Major League operation.

Now, whether the changes in the scouting personnel, etc., combined with the apparently dubious ability of the GM to evaluate ML talent, undermines future operations – that’s another debate for another day. Suffice to say, the GM hasn’t proven to be more than average (and that is arguably charitable) at evaluating the ML talent level, so we have to pray very hard that he hired the right scouts, etc., and that their drafting evaluations were well above average. Only time will tell.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Jul 8, 2009 2:10 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs

very well summed up

by I need more Esteban on Jul 8, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

rec'd, it needs to be in green

soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 8, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You stole Trey's word

“impactful”

Pretty sure that’s not a real word.

by hippdoghipp on Jul 8, 2009 2:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

please don't force the envelope

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Jul 8, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I personally think "joy zone" is the most traumatic Trey-ism

by swing and a miss on Jul 8, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's awesome

I don’t remember it. I thought I knew all of his most fearful sayings.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Jul 8, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's extremely scary that I just googled trey hillman joy zone for this link

http://www.kansascity.com/baseball/story/1282994.html

"He was trying to get the ball in all three times on Berkman," Hillman said, "and he left the ball right in his joy zone on the outer third of the plate. He used that left-field porch to his advantage."

by swing and a miss on Jul 8, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ding Ding Ding!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=impactful

1. impactful 85 up, 18 down
A non-existent word coined by corporate advertising, marketing and business drones to make their work sound far more useful, exciting and beneficial to humanity than it really is. This term is most frequently used in “team building” seminars and conferences in which said drones discuss the most effective ways to convince consumer zombies to purchase crap they clearly do not need or even want.
“The board was convinced that my new ad campaign for arsenic and semen flavored lollipops for tots will be incredibly impactful and will generate heaps of sales.”

As I expected, it can be found here.
http://dack.com/web/bullshit.html

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 8, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think if the emphasis was really that much on the minors

He would have traded every piece on the MLB roster that had value and not spend $75 million assembling a MLB roster. He would have laid low for a few year, building up his minor league depth, with the expectation of competing in 2011 or 2012. But this is not what he has done. He has tried to do both build the minors and compete at the MLB roster. I’m not criticizing this approach, but I don’t think he’s put an emphasis on building the minors over fielding a MLB winner.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 8, 2009 2:46 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs

Should be

Over trying to field a MLB winner. Obviously he has failed thus far.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 8, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fielding a trying roster, on the other hand, he’s absolutely nailed.

by 2X2L on Jul 8, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs

I think that the failed attempts at Kauffman

have come from the pressure of putting something watchable on the field NOW. And as the gov’t has repeatedly shown just throwing money at a problem will not fix it; looks like GMDM is discovering this reality.

I can also see a benefit of at least getting the budget up and getting Glass used to dusting off the checkbook. Although the money has not been well spent, at least it is being shown that money is being spent here now; I have to believe that this will make it easier to attract better free agents in the near future.

by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Jul 8, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

According to most

ranking systems, they have our minor league system as pretty good right now, not that they are the ultimate decider, but that is about all the fans can go on. So you think it’s a bad thing for the GM to be allowed to spend $75 million the year a new stadium comes out? I don’t think the philosophy was wrong, fans expect you to spend money when there is a new stadium. I do, however, think he went about implementing spending that money the wrong way. I don’t think I need to mention any players.

by I need more Esteban on Jul 8, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reread my post

“I’m not criticizing this approach”

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 9, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Moore has done well restocking the low minors

but the development side has not gone well. The transition of Gordon, Butler, and Hochevar to the majors has been less than smooth, what was expected to be the next wave of pitching prospects has not materialized (Cortes has stalled in AA, Rosa is either hurt or messed up, Pimentel go hurt, etc.), and the low minors arms are still in the low minors (godspeed, Danny Duffy). At least a healthy Bianchi put himself back on the map. As loyal2sdad pointed out, this is a system that is just not set up to help the major league team anytime soon.

by Gopherballs on Jul 8, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah good points

the development has been shaky from what we can see.

by I need more Esteban on Jul 8, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Retro nailed it

Moore, for whatever reason, has tried to build up the minors while winning in the majors at the same time. Granted, that SHOULD be the goal, but IMHO it may prove to be his ultimate downfall, as the team simply lacks the financial ability to do both at once at this point in time. This type of thinking should only be employed once the minors are brought up to speed.

Unfortunately, I’m going to blame ownership, at least to some degree, for Moore’s shortcomings. Of course, I can’t prove this, but I imagine the Glass family lacks the patience it would require to truly rebuild, especially given the increased money spent on building up the minors. I would imagine that David Glass is so unaware of how to win in a small market that he probably thinks spending more money on player development for three years should be long enough to turn everything around completely. After all, spending 3 years on R & D at Wal-Mart probably paid substantial dividends…

Just read my signature – it says it all for how I feel about Glass’ ownership prowess.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Jul 8, 2009 4:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs