Royals Waste Another Strong Greinke Start, Lose to the Immortal Luke French

by royalsreview on Jul 8, 2009 10:45 PM EDT in News Comment 70 comments

Well that was horrible. Horribly predictable (zing!).

Zack Greinke is -- no hyperbole here -- having one of the best seasons a pitcher has had this decade, and the Royals are 10-8 in his starts. 10-8.

I think my favorite stat of the night is that Billy Butler had three doubles, and neither scored, nor drove in any runners in so doing. This will happen when you're hitting between St. Willie and Jose Guillen.

Royals vs Tigers coverage, Royals vs Tigers boxscore, Bless You Boys

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they were talking about your DDJ vs jason bay piece on the 610 postgame

basically laughed and said who would want DDJ over jason bay

by slayor on Jul 8, 2009 10:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Was Schaum in on it?

He seems like a decent guy, and comes around here sometimes. I hope he wasn’t. If not, I hope he has the guts to come here and either defend his position or apologize.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

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by devil_fingers on Jul 8, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, schaum was, he was respectful though, not like he was saying "omg this is so stupid"

he and the sidekick were saying DDJ is a fourth OF on a contending team though, which I think is pretty ludicrous. also, schaum gave you a shout out, so you’re famous.

by slayor on Jul 8, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

d'oh

I assume he (rightly) mocked my non-knowledge of prospects

good to hear he was respectful

I know why people think he’s a 4th OF. And they’re wrong. There are very few teams I can think of off the top of my head where DDJ wouldn’t be one of their best three OFs. Baltimore, of course. Maybe Boston. Maybe the Dodgers, although Ethier’s blowing it on defense this year…

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

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by devil_fingers on Jul 8, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you should get the number and call in tomorrow night and talk about that

they are always dying for people to call in that know wtf they’re talking about, and i’d like to hear the DDJ is a 4th OF thing squashed on air

by slayor on Jul 8, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure other people would make the point better

I go on too long. RR should probably do it — he always sounds so mellow and measured on podcasts.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Jul 8, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

dont forget about juan pierre

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 8, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

thats cool that they mentioned it in any case

by royalsreview on Jul 9, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just want to know if they made fun of me

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

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by devil_fingers on Jul 9, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nah

schaum said you were one of the most respected posters int he royals blogosphere

by slayor on Jul 9, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ouch!

and I doubt that, but that’s nice of him to say.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Jul 9, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He Obviously Doesn't

Pay enough attention to my one liners.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 9, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm calling B- f'ng- S on that right now.

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129

by Warden11 on Jul 9, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nolan Reimold isn't better than dejesus

I would say the Angels

by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 9, 2009 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

did i miss this?

link me please?

and, take off your sabremetrician goggles for a second, does it not royally piss you off that davey makes like 4 dumbfuck plays every single week?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 8, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

sure it does

but in the end when you add it up it doesn’t cancel out everything else it does

I know you dn’t like him, that’s fine. But this isn’t any differnt than Yankees fans bitchign about Swishers Ks and allegedly bad baserunning (he’s not that bad, but they think he is), or people bitching about Dunn’s Ks and “lack of effort” (whatever — lots of people going off about some extra base he didn’t take this week) and "bad example for the rest of the team thing. We rightly dismiss those criticisms as missing the bigger picture of those guys as players. CSes are bad. POs are bad. Strikeouts are bad. Homeruns are good for Dunn and Swisher. Defense is good for DDJ. They are three imperfect players, but you know what? DDJ, Dunn, and Swisher would be a good outfield (okay, defensivelyl it would kinda suck with Dunnin LF and DDJ in CF, but you know what I mean).

Would DDJ be better if he could steal bases and didn’t get picked off seemingly more than anyone else I’ve ever watched? Yeah, of course. But you know what? Even FanGraphs WAR includes CSes…

So, anyway, yeah, DDJ’s problems on the bases are frustrating. His basestealing has always been bad, but the last couple years it’s expanded into other stuff. I get the anger about it. But I guess (for me, anyway) I think the other stuff he does outweighs it. That’s jsut me.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Jul 8, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Some guy on 810 postgame nailed my feelings on it....

the guy just looks ecstatic to be in the big leagues….looks ecstatic that he’s guaranteed $14.5 million in his career….regardless of what he does….not saying I’m a real big ‘grit’ guy, but act like you fucking care. Even Zack, who seemingly thinks about everything BUT baseball all the time, you can tell he cares when he/someone else fucks up. Davey just goes back to his giggling ways and thinks about how he’s going to fuck up tomorrows game.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 8, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's your perception of it, though

DDJ is a good player, and I don’t see any reason to think he doesn’t care because….what? He doesn’t snap his bat over his knee when he Ks?

"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"

by NHZ on Jul 9, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

did you see his throw in from the OF tonite?

If that was Jogui, NOBODY would be defending him. He either doesnt give a shit or he’s got the least baseball sense of any player on the planet.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 9, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't defend anybody who made that throw.

But I also wouldn’t say that it happened because the player doesn’t care. Whether it was JoGui or DDJ or whoever. It was a big fuck up. It was a bad play, but that certainly doesn’t mean DDJ doesn’t care. It means he made a bad play.

"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"

by NHZ on Jul 9, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't say that he doesn't care

just that he doesn’t react negatively to screwing up.

Smilin’ Dave, yaknow

Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman

by BHWick on Jul 9, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But, does not showing negativity about a screw-up

publicly….is that necessarily a bad thing?

I mean, the example I usually give people from the Sox is Kevin Youkilis. Lots of people (sox fans) like him because he wears his heart on his sleeve and yells at the umps a lot. I, personally, think he could do himself a favor and just shut up about it more often. I don’t think highly of him as a player because his gets pissed visibly when he makes a bad play – I think highly of him because he hits the snot out of the ball.

I guess I’m just saying that whether it’s reacting excessively to bad plays or not reacting at all, it might irk you or me. But it really doesn’t say much about whether the player cares or not, IMO. I think different players just deal with fucking up in public in different ways. I don’t think ANYONE is happy making a bad throw and hurting the team. But maybe some players need to try to shake it off by yelling at themselves, while others deal with it by just trying to move on ASAP.

"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"

by NHZ on Jul 9, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not saying he needs to start breaking bats and throwing shit....

but he needs to quit making the mistakes he does. They’re extremely elementary….yet, he makes them constantly….whether its being picked off, not tagging from 3rd on a ball to deep left, tagging, going 75% of the way only to go back and get someone else out, making the wrong throw. He’s got the physical skills and the experience to where these should be rare occurrences, yet, they’re not.

It’s one thing to be Billy and fuckup on the bases, most of the time they’re aggressive, even if obviously stupid.

I got it…Davey needs aderrall…thats the only explanation.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 9, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, mental mistakes are frustrating

and I guess it’s more annoying when an athletic player makes them. But in terms of Major Fuck Ups (MFUs) for the Royals in 2009, I doubt he even leads the team.

Aderrall is some goooooood stuff. Winky face.

"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"

by NHZ on Jul 9, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Xanax Rules

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 9, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm reminded of that Frank White quote that d_f posted last week

About smiling being his way of coping with failure.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 9, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, but did Frank White ever win anything?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Jul 9, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

also getting frustrated with a play that is already done

is pointless, and will only make you more tense (non-clutch) for the next one

Gotta clear the mechanism !!!

soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 9, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

greinke on starting the ASG

"I hope to (start)," Greinke admitted, "but I think Halladay has a pretty good argument with his experience. If anybody else starts, I think it will be a little weird."

- http://www.kansascity.com/sports/royals/story/1313679.html

by slayor on Jul 8, 2009 11:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nailed It

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 8, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dick Kaegel has a more complete quote from ZG

“I hope to, but I think [Roy] Halladay has a pretty good argument, especially with the experience he has and I’d be happy with either decision,” Greinke said. "If it’s someone besides us two, I think that’d be a little weird.

http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090708&content_id=5760498&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=kc

Random tangent:
I was watching the Toronto feed when Halladay shut out the Royals and the Jays broadcasters were talking about how Zack brought a folding chair to sit on the top step of the dugout on the field of play (all by his lonesome) to watch Halladay pitch and would go back into the club house when the Jays were batting. It was kind of hilarious.

Also caught Teahen’s interview on 810 today when he was asked what Zack’s reaction to being named the Royals’ All-Star was, and he related that Greinke had already made his reservations for St. Louis and just wanted get back to watching the Wimbledon final.

by swing and a miss on Jul 9, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

jesus christ....

zack’s value has been $24.7 mllion this year….and we’re only 10-8 in his starts

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 8, 2009 11:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

We Pretty Much

Blow, if you hadn’t noticed.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 8, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If my math is right

This means we are 26-40 when Zack doesn’t start. Kind of makes 10-8 look pretty good.

And, yes, also kind of shows that we pretty much blow.

by Black and Gold on Jul 9, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

$26.3 million after last night's start

and his FIP and tRA both went DOWN to 1.94 and 1.95 respectively. BABIP now a crazy unlucky .327.

by swing and a miss on Jul 9, 2009 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you can't start the ASG with the best ERA, second most Ks

then how the hell can you start the ASG?

Greinke would have 13 wins on a team that doesn’t do stupid crap like starting TPJ

Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman

by BHWick on Jul 8, 2009 11:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

13 starts with 2 ER or less....

and 10 wins…..

just demand a trade now zack, the team still isnt fun to watch even with you on it

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 8, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ZACK DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO WIN!!!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 9, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Has he been a bad influence on Mecche, or the other way around?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Jul 9, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Greinke

by swing and a miss on Jul 8, 2009 11:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

stupid post button

anyway, he has the worst run support per 9 IP in the AL, by a lot. It’s amazing he even has ten wins.

by swing and a miss on Jul 8, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where are those stats?

by sterlingice on Jul 8, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

espn

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching?sort=runSupportAvg&split=0&league=mlb&season=2009&seasonType=2&type=pitch3&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&hand=a&pos=all&minip=80&qual=false&count=81

Here’s the bottom five RS/9IP for MLB pitchers who’ve thrown at least 80 IP:

96 Cliff Lee CLE 4.95
97 Barry Zito SFO 4.78
98 Doug Davis ARI 4.74
99 Zack Greinke KAN 4.59
100 Johan Santana NYM 4.12

by swing and a miss on Jul 8, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

seems as if other teams have a hard time htting when they have good pitchers as well

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 8, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, and Barry Zito ;)

by sterlingice on Jul 8, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

anyone else have a problem connecting a minute

Ago?

Oh well… Seems like a good time to test the new mobile comments…

Testing… Testing…

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Jul 8, 2009 11:46 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

Yes, but it's good now.

by hippdoghipp on Jul 8, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes...i had that problem as well....

figured it was my net….or maybe even my laptop….since i spilled an entire bottled water on it a couple days ago….

luckily the rice/cell phone trick works with laptops too

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 8, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, the bad connection means by Bay-DDJ WAR comparison comment got lost

but now it’s back

I know you’re all crying about that.

Anyone know anything about this Luke French guy?

Nice to see Billy with the XBHs… hice followup to a good performacen vs. Verlander last night

was Freel’s hit as epic as it seemed in the box score?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Jul 8, 2009 11:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

French looks like one of those guys

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/F/Luke-French.shtml

Certainly not a blue-chipper, but he’s always had pretty good control. Going to have to keep his walks waaaaaayyyyyyy down if he’s going to stick as anything other than a fifth starter, what with those k-rates.

"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"

by NHZ on Jul 9, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not a blue-chipper, pretty good control =

Cy Young vs. the Royals

If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showforum=129

by Warden11 on Jul 9, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

his FIP has been in the high 3/low 4 range all through the minors, with some variation

nothing special, but not bad, either. about what you’d expect from an up-and-coming pitcher

by benfunke on Jul 9, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

anyone seen public enemies?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 9, 2009 12:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Really want to see it

Looks bad ass.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 9, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

XBHs in DET = HRs in most other parks

lets hope that he can at least pull a ball or two this weekend because dead CF in Fenway is not good

Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman

by BHWick on Jul 9, 2009 12:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This point makes me feel better about Chen.

Or not.

by Black and Gold on Jul 9, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Those are great stats, both of them

by raefzilla on Jul 9, 2009 12:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

So,

Who had Tim Wakefield in the “most wins by the All Star Break” pool?

by sterlingice on Jul 9, 2009 1:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not me.

I had HoRam.

by Black and Gold on Jul 9, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maddon's first post-ASG series is in KC

if he picks Wakefield, then i’m going to boo him and I hope the Royals fans at the games do too.

Enough is Enough - Fire Trey Hillman

by BHWick on Jul 9, 2009 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

no way he doesnt pick zack

id be SHOCKED

by slayor on Jul 9, 2009 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i cant decide which move would actually surprise me.....

zack or no zack

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 9, 2009 3:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I picked Kyle Davies

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 9, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

good thing we didnt give andruw jones 500k to be our '4th' outfielde

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jul 9, 2009 4:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

probably not worth it unless you could pry Jaramillo away from Texas too

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Jul 9, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Funny you say this...

Every year, there’s a contingent of people who think we need to fire Rudy because he lobbies every single year for a “project player” (this really is true).

AJ was this year’s project player, and it’s turned out quite spectacularly for us. Nevertheless, many people point to 2007 when we brought in Sosa under similar pretenses and he proceeded to have a very lukewarm year, taking playing time away from some prospects and not putting up enough value to get traded for anything.

I’m not really sure how much of Andruw’s performance is attributable to Rudy given how many reports I read that he was flat out fat when he played with the Dodgers. I’ve never really bought into the whole “best shape of my life” type stuff, but I guess it’s a worthwhile sentiment in some circumstances.

by jwiscarson on Jul 9, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs