Crazy Coincidence Huh? Royals Demote Alex Gordon Just In Time to Save a Few Million Dollars
by royalsreview on Aug 18, 2009 11:05 PM EDT
in News
112 comments
The Royals optioned Gordon to Class AAA Omaha prior to Tuesday’s game against the Chicago White at U.S. Cellular Field. The move cleared space for reliever Kyle Farnsworth’s return from the disabled list.
This is what it means to be a fan of a poorly-run team. Any mundane roster move on a mundane Tuesday night can suddenly take a bizarre turn. I can only speculate, but I imagine that part of the fun of following a well-run team is that, after awhile, you get it. You see the thinking behind each move, you see the plan. You see the plot unfolding. They might be bold, but they're never baffling. Even when they surprise you, they don't surprise you.
When was the last time a Dayton Moore move was like that? When was the last time the Royals did something that everybody just immediately understood? Following the Royals is not the quickest way towards achieving those subtle pleasures we get when we discover that we're following along with a great artist. I'd say it's more like listening to a petulant teenager lecturing you in Klingon.
Trust the process. Through every bizarre zig and zag that we've seen during the Dayton Moore era, and for those yet to come, it's our ethical responsibility to bring up those infamous words because with each passing day it gets more and more difficult to make out what the process is. The results however... well, they've been more consistent.
Mind you one of the sweetest ironies of this whole affair is that Gordon is being sent down to make room for Kyle Farnsworth on the roster. Call it the circle of Moore. It's the latest version of the Royals' failed baseball alchemy: if we have enough of these terrible relievers around, maybe it'll magically work. Well, now the Royals have an absurd thirteen member staff. And at least eight of them cannot pitch.
It's like the Royals are eagerly anticipating a series of major rules changes that reward teams for carrying catchers, utilitymen and bad middle relievers.
Yes, Alex Gordon is slumping or going through a rough patch. His timing may be off. The timeline the Royals are pushing doesn't make much sense however, given that Gordon actually hit ok when he initially came back. During his first nine games back with the Royals he hit .321/.457/.321. I guess he had his timing, then he remembered he was injured or recovering from an injury, so his timing went off again. Strange.
The Royals put themselves in this position, which is what badly run teams do. After being drafted in 2005, the Royals made Gordon a fulltime starter on Opening Day 2007, after one season in AA. Throughout 2007 they did not think that any time at AAA would benefit him, even when he was clearly struggling. Same for 2008. It would have been perfectly acceptable in baseball ethics for the Royals to have had Gordon start the 2007 season in Omaha and promote him after two months. They chose not to do so. It would have been perfectly acceptable to have demoted Gordon at about six different points during his rookie season, given that Gordon didn't get his batting average above .200 until June 14th. The Royals chose not to do so. The argument then was that there was only one way he could learn: see Major League pitching.
But now, because the guy has had a bad two weeks, suddenly he needs the AAA time he didn't need three years ago? Here's the non-stunner of the night: the Royals "development" of Alex Gordon doesn't make any sense.
Look, I know many people have been disappointed in Gordon. I'm one of them. Really though, that's a different argument. He's utterly and unquestionably one of the team's better position players and without a doubt makes the 2009 Royals better. But this is the Royals, who are trying desperately to WIN NOW, except when they sometimes aren't. Hey, Gil Meche made another completely pointless start tonight. Fun!
The Gordon-hating faction, which likely includes portions of management, needs to get their story straight. If he sucks, then I don't think we should worry about what he'll make in arbitration or that he might be leaving us a year early. Which is it?
Frankly, this is petty. Embarrassingly petty. Amazingly, the Royals have found a way to look even smaller than their playoff chances.
Now warming up in the bullpen, Kyle Farnsworth and Roman Colon.
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my two tweets
when I initially got the news on my mobile in a waiting room:
then later this evening at home:
I’m guessing Dayton Moore’s been reading Rene Girard. #theprocess #scapegoats #alex_gordon #royals
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Aug 18, 2009 11:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
P.S.
add “Gordon hating members of the press” to the list, as well.
Not saying the’re necessarily part of that faction, but my bet is that both Mellinger and Posnanski defend this move.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Aug 18, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice call on Smellinger.
I found his BallStar entry today pretty ridiculous.
by stuckinstl12 on Aug 19, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, the tone of this blog has really changed
from making jokes about runelvys hernandez looking like an alien and how terrible of an allstar mark redman was, but now its much more angry and frustrated toward the organization.
which i think is a good thing.
keep it up “royals review” who ever you may be
Fresh since 1822
by kmacsm on Aug 18, 2009 11:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
its the diffference between not having hope and losing it
by royalsreview on Aug 19, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
when I read your comment
my brain first read it as: “the difference between having a rope and using it”
I think I’ll use mine.
Hopes fade once again from blue to red. Go New Chiefs!!
by kabrink on Aug 19, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting they activated Farnsy
even though he worked two innings last night for Omaha, and probably wasn’t available to pitch tonight.
by hunter s. royal on Aug 18, 2009 11:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i guess demoting Gordon ONE DAY before the cutoff would look unsavory
these guys are good
by royalsreview on Aug 18, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
petty & smaller indeed
This is a tawdry, ridiculous moves. Contradictory to how Alex has been treated his first two years — needs to struggle through MLB pitching — and particularly baffling given his solid batting immediately upon returning, prior to this recent downtown.
You know what Dayton, if you wanted to save a few million dollars, you shouldn’t have acquired that waste of space Betancourt. Picked up a frickin AAA shortstop from somebody.
by KC Gunner on Aug 18, 2009 11:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He got it half right,
Yuni is basically a AAA shortstop, just an expensive one.
He can get 4, NOT 5.
by Warden11 on Aug 18, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If AG ever develops into the player everyone predicted...
this move will end up costing the Royal major $$$. Glass runs this ship like it’s the SS Wal-Mart (when actually it’s more like the Titanic).
by RaulDuke on Aug 19, 2009 12:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Royals are not the Titanic
They are more like the S.S. Minnow, and I’m pretty sure that Gilligan is the GM of the ship.
by AxDxMx on Aug 19, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wouldn't GMDM be the Skipper and Trey Gilligan?
then Glass could be Thurston J. Howell III
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Aug 19, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Banny is the Professor
Whose wives are Ginger and Mary Ann? Greinke’s (fiance) and ????
Are we, the fans, the restless natives?
by AxDxMx on Aug 19, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they should give Gordon a new position to try out in the minors
Let Teahen play third because he is a third baseman and plays better as such. And when Teahen’s contract expires, Moustakas should be ready. (Still unable to comprehend the drafting of Hosmer and Moustakas when they already had Butler and Gordon at the same positions, but I guess those are just vagaries of “the process” that cannot be understood).
by swing and a miss on Aug 19, 2009 12:16 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
and certainly cannot be educated
Hopes fade once again from blue to red. Go New Chiefs!!
by kabrink on Aug 19, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know, had you posted this in the afternoon about Gordon's being demoted
I wouldn’t have had a problem with you closing the other discussion. The fact that the other post was first and beat this one by 8 hours, has 51 comments and 3 recs means nothing I guess.
But the biggest problem with your “process” of closing the other thread, is that you just killed the most active discussion thread we’ve had on this site lately that actually pertains to Royals baseball.
by AxDxMx on Aug 19, 2009 1:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you have a problem with him moving the discussion to one spot....
the spot that actually has in depth commentary on the move? Even if it didnt, Will spends a shit ton of time working on this site. And, if we’re to believe him, he makes pretty close to nothing for his time. Had the original fanpost had some insightful thoughts, rather than just quoting a tweet, he wouldve probably just moved it to the front page
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Aug 19, 2009 3:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When the discussion was started in another spot
Yes, I do. It wasn’t even my post, I just don’t appreciate an active thread being closed so you can’t reply to what was said. He wasn’t consolidating conversation to one spot, he killed the conversation in the other thread to promote his rant.
Just to be clear, I don’t have a problem with this post, I have a problem with the comments being closed on the other. And if there were 6 posts on this topic, I could understand why 5 of them were closed. I understand the logic behind the move, but the last post there was at 10:06, and RR posted this at 10:05. He closed comments there pretty quick after posting this.
by AxDxMx on Aug 19, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i can reopen the other thread...
it wasn’t so much about closing that one, as it was just trying to have the bulk of the comments in one place
may have been a mistake, but that was my motivation
by royalsreview on Aug 19, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about?
“RR, would you mind reopening the other post so that we can finish some discussions that were ongoing in that thread? — Thanks, AxDxMx”
"The life of a (Royals) fan must be lived forward but can only be understood backward" -- Kierkegaard (more or less)
by benfunke on Aug 19, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
comments there are reopened
have at it
by royalsreview on Aug 19, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about?
The largest Royals, non-game thread post since August 5th was closed after 8 hours, and I come in here 2 hours after that to find about 12 posts. It’s a little frustrating. Did I handle it the best way? Probably not.
by AxDxMx on Aug 19, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You act like
AG is a perrenial All-Star or something RR. Seriously, the guy is a career .248/.329/.411 hitter. This is from a player that was a “Can’t Miss Star” coming out of Nebraska. The business as usual Royals would have stuck it out with him in KC despite his lack of production and inevitable waning of confidence.
This is ABSOLUTELY a positive move by GMDM, $$ be damned. I think we all long for a time when we have a team in KC that will tell a celebrated PROSPECT like Alex Gordon that you better start getting the job done. More is expected of you, and what you are giving us isn’t cutting it.
Could this me move be made on the impetus that it will save KC a year of team control? I dunno, it is possible. I HOPE that isn’t the motivation behind this move. It was all of our speculation that was the reasoning behind Hochevar. Then he came to KC after posting solid AAA numbers and looked like Jose Lima (circa ‘04) for 3 starts. Maybe, just MAYBE GMDM isn’t the complete raging moron that 90% of the posters (including me at times) makes him out to be…
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Aug 19, 2009 1:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Some more...
He’s utterly and unquestionably one of the team’s better position players and without a doubt makes the 2009 Royals better.
Forgive me if I am seen as putting words in your mouth RR, but I believe you are one of the more saber metric individuals on this site. AG has a .3 WAR this season. That unquestionably makes the Royals better? Mitch Maier has been better (.5) would he receive the same post should he be sent down? I think not. AG is NOTHING more than a Big bag of POTENTIAL at this point. He is grossly underperforming compared to his draft classmates, he needs a kick in the ass or some other act to start righting the ship IMO.
I really think the Dayton Bashing has reached nothing more than pure Mob-Mentality at this point. Everyone immediately looks at everything he does and immediately dissects it in the worst possible way, so that THEY can be the one that writes the post about it first (Henry Rollins, I am looking at you). He has made largely mundane moves over the past couple of weeks (releasing of Freel, picking up of Anderson for basically free) and they have been met as though they were as costly as the Farnsworth & Ram Ram moves.
I’m not looking to be labeled as a GMDM apologist. I’m not. He has made some moronic moves, but I’m just not prone to the following the Mob-Mentality. If I may draw a political parallel… I’m not for the current Health Care proposal either, but you wont see me at a Town Hall Meeting, acting a fool, yelling inaccuracies about it to prove my point.
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Aug 19, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Agree with your sentiments
Moore has made some really bad moves and the fanbase has a right to be pissed about this season. But this move really isn’t one of them. I heard about this today in my car and just thought, “hmm, probably the best thing for him” and got out of the car and didn’t think of it again until I checked Royals news. Now part of that is the team has been so bad that I no longer get too up or down on any Royals news, but the other part is what GoBabies is saying: This is the right move NOW. Did the organization fuck A-Gor up by bringing him up too soon? Maybe. Did they do it with Billy Butler at some point too? Maybe. But Butler has kept at it and now he is realllly starting to look like a nice hitter.
I think we need to look at the organization for faults on this, but let’s not leave all the blame off Alex Gordon. Sometimes blame should go on the performers.
But whatever, what’s done is done, move him down now and let’s see if he can mash some AAA pitching or not. If he can, well then bring him back up and see what happens.
by I need more Esteban on Aug 19, 2009 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't that a .3 WAR over a very limited period of time
of course Maier has a higher number of wins, he didn’t spend 3 months on the DL
Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis
by BHWick on Aug 19, 2009 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, WAR is based on playing time
Gordon has posted 0.3 WAR with one month of playing time. If you extend that 0.3 WAR over the full 4.5 months that has been played this year, his WAR would be over 1.3, which would make him the third most valuable position player on the team.
Gordon posted a 2.1 WAR in his disappointing rookie year and a 2.6 WAR last year.
by Gopherballs on Aug 19, 2009 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First of all WAR is an indicator - albeit a good one, but sabermetrics aren't FACTS
You can’ t argue he is responsible for 2.6 more wins than ?.
You can’ t quantify .6 wins. And if Gordon is truly helping this team with .300 OBP and a 3.13 SLG % I think you need to take a long look in the mirror.
Once again Gordon is getting preferential treatment. He’s been horrible this year and of course he’s been hurt. Im in NY, there are no Royals fans over here and when I mention the team I root for, without eliciting anything I get a “man, Alex Gordon is a bust!”
How pathetic are you using WAR to measure Alex Gordon? How can you compare him to a replacement level player? He was pegged to be our franchise player, we passed on Longoria because of him (or so I think)
BTW, Longoria has FIVE MORE WAR than Gordon. This is a good move, because Gordon CANNOT HIT!!!!
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 19, 2009 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RR, I just don't agree with this post below
Yes, Alex Gordon is slumping or going through a rough patch. His timing may be off. The timeline the Royals are pushing doesn’t make much sense however, given that Gordon actually hit ok when he initially came back. During his first nine games back with the Royals he hit .321/.457/.321. I guess he had his timing, then he remembered he was injured or recovering from an injury, so his timing went off again. Strange.
So when Guillen is hurt, “he just sucks”, but when Gordon is hurt “he was injured”. Yeah I’m sure Gordon started sucking because he was “thinking too much” and not because he doesn’t possess the skills to hit major league pitching consistently
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 19, 2009 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You might want to re-read RR's passage again
He was using a literary technique known as irony.
And you might want to read up on WAR. I don’t think it means what you think it means.
by Gopherballs on Aug 19, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is ironic about this post?
All I see is an argument about why Gordon is a good player and a .613 OPS proves otherwise. The only statement of irony is about sending Gordon down and activating Farnsworth. There is no irony in that move because it’s a move you EXPECT Moore to make. Plus, he has a 4.07 ERA which if you haven’t seen our bullpen stats makes him our best reliever outside of Soria, sadly.
Wins Above Replacement? .3 for Gordon and 5.3 for Longoria. It means the same for everyone I guess. It means Gordon is basically a replacement player and has the same “WAR” as Buck
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 19, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When did they stop teaching irony in American schools?
Hint: It’s the part where Gordon remembers he was injured.
For WAR, think about how it is calculated — the flaw in your logic will become apparent.
by Gopherballs on Aug 19, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's like raaaaaa-eeeeee-aaaaain! On your wedding day.
A long friggin time ago.
by AxDxMx on Aug 20, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again please don't be condescending
It gets you nowhere in life. I wish NYRoyal figures that out someday as well.
There is nothing truly ironic in his post. Unless you really believe it’s absurd that he’s getting sent down, when actually it’s absurd to think he should remain in the lineup. If its some form of sarcastic irony, sure, because that’s what he’s being, which is perfectly fine; however, the problem lies in his premise that Gordon is any good, but he’s not. Find me someone who thinks a .613 OPS is good when its .100 points worse than Coco Crisp, and then it’s time to seek help.
And for Gordon’s WAR…perhaps you could find the “irony” in my comparison
I’ll give you a hint: Gordon isn’t much better than a replacement level player
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 20, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a month's playing time
WAR isn’t a rate stat, you seem to be overlooking that.
by kcbottom9th on Aug 20, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah you're right
he’s played about 1/3-1/4 of the season. Does it still matter though??
Ryan Zimmeraman 5.7 WAR
Evan Longoria 5.3 WAR
Alex Gordon 1.1 WAR (if he played a full season)
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 21, 2009 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Ryan Zimmerman was a bust
It doesn’t make it true. And he sure proved me wrong this year. Alex still has time.
by AxDxMx on Aug 19, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zimmerman had a career OPS of .800 before this year
It’s .890 this year. Not sure why you would think he was a bust. He was injured last year too, just like Alex is this year. But he still played through it and showed a better OBP and more power.
He is also 8 months younger than Alex. No comparison.
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 19, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
8 months = no comparison?
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Aug 19, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
8 months + much better performance=no comparison
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Aug 19, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah billy seriously
If 30 GM’s were asked who they’d rather have between Alex Gordon and Ryan Zimmerman, it would be unanimous.
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 20, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shenanigans
His OPS declined 3 years in a row from 2006 on. .822 to .788 to .774, then has exploded this year. Man, I wonder why I would think he was a bust. He’s got a much better glove than Alex though. Last year Gordon had an OPS of .783 which was higher than Zim’s (and was also higher than Gordon’s first season). Gordon had a 110 OPS+, while Zim was league average at 101. If you ask who would you rather have after last season, I’d say it would be split between Gordon and Zim, but following the trendline, I think Gordon might have been more popular among GMs.
And Zim’s “much better performance” this year, has come while Alex hasn’t really played. Gordon was ahead of Zim with the bat last year, while Zim has jumped light years past him now.
I like how the irrational hate that Royals fans tend to have for certain players is spilling over onto Gordon. Sweeney, Emil Brown, Jose Guillen, and now Alex Gordon.
by AxDxMx on Aug 20, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No its the irrational defense of Gordon that is bothering people
Of course we all liked his high OBP, speed and decent glove. But Zimmerman has more power, and is as good of a hitter and better defensively and doing all this at a younger age.
Not sure if you buy into the “positional” argument, but it has been around since baseball was invented. It’s more difficult to hit 3rd in a batting order than it is 6th/7th in the order. Even if its simply a function of a pitchers perceptions that he needs to try a bit harder facing the batters. You can’t quantify it, but we’ve been through this on other threads. My point is Zimmerman has been a fixture batting 3rd too.
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 20, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are comparing Zim and Gordon this year, which is completely unfair and irrational
Gordon hasn’t been healthy since the 2nd game of the season, IIRC. And he wasn’t 100% when he came back. His own words put him at about 85%. How can you compare the 2?
The only “positional” argument I buy into, would be that certain positions on the diamond need to produce. Like a first baseman doesn’t really contribute a ton to defense, he needs to hit with power. Batting in different positions in the lineup should make ZERO difference. If it does make a difference, that player is a headcase. Maybe Gordon is, but I still don’t buy it. It has more to do with random variability. I mean what’s the difference between all the years Ichiro Suzuki has hit leadoff? His OPS this year is .870, last year it was .740. So how do you explain that difference? RANDOM VARIABILITY. Last year was a career low, this year is a career high. His regression to the mean from last year has spilled into this year.
by AxDxMx on Aug 20, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
.747 OPS for Ichiro last year actually
by AxDxMx on Aug 20, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no problem with what you are saying
Like I said before I liked his plate discipline. But this guy was supposed to be our FRANCHISE PLAYER and he’s closer to a replacement level player than a franchise player.
Is he hurt, yeah sure, THEN HOW THE HELL CAN YOU CRITICIZE THIS MOVE!!!!!!
i’m not going to sit here and say he sucks. I’ll say he absolutely sucks this year, but I’ll admit he’s hurt. But what is all this nonsensical bullshit and disrespect about sending him down. Butler was sent down last year and he’s better for it.
And if it happens a day before he is vested than that’s fantastic!!!
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 21, 2009 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't criticize the move
I like it actually. We were arguing about Zimmerman and Gordon, not Gordon being sent down.
by AxDxMx on Aug 22, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so I guess we're all assuming that gordon is going to hit .190 for the rest of this season and his career
by royalsreview on Aug 19, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HIS CAREER IS IN CRISIS
Trust the experts!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to joke about this move then go right ahead
I think it will benefit him. He looked terrible and couldn’t hit MLB pitching. Whether he is adjusting coming back from an injury or just needs more development, this move will do it.
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 19, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The timing and the player
The timing of this move clearly reveals its intention: This is a cost-saver pure and simple. And with the system the way it is, I don’t know that an underperforming player should really expect anything better than what the system offers him.
As for Gordon in particular, I would have welcomed a demotion had it been designed to send a message and actually help him to reach a higher level of performance. He has struck me as highly arrogant without any game to back it up. From his mlb debut he has whined and visibly eye-rolled every strike-three call he has seen, which has been a lot. Was he one of the R’s better players last year? Yeah but with a healthy dose of woop-di-doo.
This move will only make AG bitter, not better, and sends the message that dollars and player control matter to KC, but not performance. And through it all doesn’t Teahen have to be saying to himself, “Oh great, now I get to be this clown’s placeholder once again, when he hasn’t ever earned his way here but just keeps getting handed my job time after time.”
Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?
by royalsroyalsroyals on Aug 19, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So maybe I shouldn't
Make sure my sister gets her Gordon shersey.
by NotAHippie on Aug 19, 2009 1:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BTW
didn’t see anything on it so I’ll just ask did anyone see all the Royals action on Sportcenter tonight? I haven’t seen that much Royals play since May.
-Royals vs. White Sox highlights after the Tigers vs. Mariners: Billy mashes: 3-5 with 3 2B, Soria slips while facing Dye and then limps around the mound for awhile, then is magically fine and gets all 3 guys out. Seriously, I hope he’s OK, though. (ahhh isn’t it great to be part of other teams playoff races?)
-A preview for tomorrow’s good games with Greinke and Halladay flashing across the screen
-What 2 watch for: Greinke and Halladay both starting tomorrow
-Then Mark Teahen back at 3B, making #4 top play.
Wow, today the Royals somehow reminded me they’re still playing.
by I need more Esteban on Aug 19, 2009 2:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cool
That’s a nice positive
The only thing I hope is that the Royals “top sabermetricians” who put together their defensive stats missed it, since I’m pretty sure Web Gems are their main data source, and this might convince them that Mark Teahen can play 3B.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 catchers, 8 relievers
Dayton is a fucking genius at putting a roster together
Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis
by BHWick on Aug 19, 2009 2:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well, someone has to block all those middle relief pitches in the dirt
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Aug 19, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Innovation!
Maybe we should start 2 catchers side by side.
Hopes fade once again from blue to red. Go New Chiefs!!
by kabrink on Aug 19, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Billy Butler better get off to a hot start next April
or else he will be spending all but 69 days in the minors next year.
by Gopherballs on Aug 19, 2009 2:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He'll be traded in the offseason along with AG to fix our CF problem
But where, oh where, can we find the next Joey Gathright?
by AxDxMx on Aug 19, 2009 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WILY TAVARES NOW!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 19, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every time I see this joke my guts seize up.
I just know that it could really happen.
Last July when I saw the Red Sox were interested in trading for Mahay I wrote – We better not hear the name Coco Crisp mentioned. A few months later the Royals not only traded for Crisp, they ate his full salary and gave away a better reliever than Mahay who was going to be under team control for four more years. Over the last year reality has been even worse than my attempts at dark humor.
In summary, jokes about the Royals trading for Willy Taveras cause equal parts smiles and anxiety.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
by James Quinn on Aug 19, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I can't figure out...
is why everyone seems to be so down on recalling Farnsy. Sure he kind of stinks sometimes, but isn’t he automatically our 2nd best reliever now – by a long shot?
I say yes.
by XBic on Aug 19, 2009 9:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
Robinson Tejeda has actually been really good, and I think Farnsworth was a bit “over his head” (and pitching against the weakest parts of lineups) during his decent streak.
I think it’s more the roster construction (as BHWick points out above) and the symbolism of calling up a lame reliever and sending down a good (albeit slumping) player.
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by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way
Now would be a good time for your sign free agent Adrian Beltre post.
by Gopherballs on Aug 19, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
YOu can do it
I like Beltre, but while he might be a better player than Gordon next season (and believe it or not, it’s not a sure thing), he’s in his early 30s, and I’m not sure that’s the type of player the Royals need to sign at this point in their “development” unless he comes on a really good deal.
Despte hysteria from certain sources who should know better (Mellinger and Rany), 110 PAs isn’t not that bit a deal (not pointing at you, GB). I’m worried, too, of course, it’s natural. And Gordon’s defense is better than people think (and certainly better than Teahen’s, which both Mellinger and Rany at times have thought was open to question). If they’re gong to move him, it should be to the outfield, but I’m not sure that’s worth it. He certainly shouldn’t move to 1B at this point.
But on Beltre — what’s weird is that last time I did a crude WAR projection of FAs a week or so ago using ZiPS RoS, Chone Figgins came out ahead of Beltre, and that’s without considering baserunning…
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by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just following up on the joke in a previous thread
about what would happen on this site if it was suggested that Gordon would be worth more than Butler if Gordon returned to his 2008 form (with Beltre suggested as an even more potentially polarizing player). I think this thread is what you had in mind.
Anyway, yeah, Beltre does not fit for where the Royals are, especially with Gordon around, but he fit the joke as another example of an undervalued player due in large part to the false expectations created by his one monster year. Some team will likely get a huge bargain on his next contract given the built-in defensive value and likely offensive improvement once freed of Safeco.
Figgins is not too surprising because he has actually developed into a nice player. Given an opportunity to stay at one position, he has turned into a well above average defender at 3B (not too far behind Beltre), and he has refined his approach at the plate to become a decent on-base guy. Beltre trumps him with power, but a point of OBA counts more than a point of SLG. Some team that overvalues speed, however, will give him a bigger contract than he is probably worth.
by Gopherballs on Aug 19, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah... yes, I'm the humor-less doofus now. Sorry.
On Figgins vs. Beltre: I wonder if teams still overvalue speed. Well, okay, the Royals, but Figgins is a 3B, and that is a “power position,” just like CF is for a speedy guy who steals bases and can’t throw, right?
Where will Beltre land? If the Mariners are really going for it next year (as the Snell/Wilson acquisition seems to indicate), then he’s worth trying to resign. the Mariners will know what he’s worth, but as you’ve pointed out before, he might want to get out of a ballpark that absolutely kills his offensive game.
For some reason I still seem him on the Angels. If Figgins leaves, they might actually have to give Brandon Wood consistent at-bats unless they sign another aging star.
Sabean’s back to his old tricks after a couple seasons of sanity. Perhaps they trade Sandoval (scary good young hitter — switch hitting, younger, defensively more skilled version of Billy Butler with power) or move him to first for Beltre? Well, moving him to first (Pablo’s defense is decent, but not great) and signing Beltre almost makes sense for them…
Beltre would be a monster in Texas if they weren’t stuck with Michael YOung.
Toronto might also makes sense if Beltre’s value is down — the shed a lot of money, and could try Encarnacion at 1B, OF, or trade him if they can’t dump Overbay. They definitely value defense up there.
Boston… yeah… Beltre would kick ass there. But they’re still stuck with the Lowell contract (although he’s not a bad player when he’s healthy). do the Orioles have a 3B coming up?
Maybe TV moves Longoria to SS? Okay, won’t happen…
The White Sox would also make sense if Beckham could play 2B (or SS with Alexei to 2B). Minnesota won’t spend for him. Detroit already has a budget Beltre in Brandon Inge. Cleveland is rebuilding and doesn’t have a spot for him.
STL? Glaus is done there, they want to convince Pujols they are going to contend. Any 3B candidates over there? Milwaukee needs a 3B, but they don’t go nuts in FA. Houston will probably think they could go over the top by overpaying him….
Other teams are already set or unlikely to pay…
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by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Inge's knee is killing him right now
So if Inge isn’t healthy, maybe Detroit makes that move. Inge can play other positions too, just not catcher anymore.
by AxDxMx on Aug 20, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm more confused about keeping Wright/Colon/Bale.
He can get 4, NOT 5.
by Warden11 on Aug 19, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if any of them are back there should be a riot
add Colon in as well. It’s like a nightmare that needs to be over. Chen can be our Loogy. Or Dinardo
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 19, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I check on the other
Missouri team from time to time and heard that Alex Gordon was sent down to the minors. If I remember correctly, he did not spend any time there on this way up to the majors and he may be paying for that now. I am surprised how many fans want to discard him now. The Cardinals will be glad to take him off your hands if management has soured on him.
by Cardnal on Aug 19, 2009 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gordon for Pujols?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 19, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who is more Dayton Moore's kind of player?
Skip Schumaker or Khalil Greene?
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by devil_fingers on Aug 19, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schumacher
Skip is a proper baseball name. And that matter.
by kcbottom9th on Aug 19, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there is an excellent point in here.
For about a decade the Royals have been rushing players to the major league level way too fast. They Royals management has been impatient and desperate and as a result they done a horrible job at developing players.
If you are going to win with the farm system and not pay for big money free agents, you simply can’t miss with guys like Gordon.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Aug 19, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about
Khalil Greene, Tony Glaus or Thurston or any combination.
by Cardnal on Aug 19, 2009 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Seems more than fair
Two impending FA and a black Willie Bloomquist. Makes perfect sense.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 19, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
black Willie Bloomquist
does not compute… Willie too white
by royalsreview on Aug 19, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're calling out Dayton Moore for hipocrisy
but I find this post more hipocritical. You start by criticizing the Royals for stupidly acting as though they’re in a “win-now” mode when they’re clearly nowhere near contention, and then when they make a move that (1) delays Gordon’s free agency clock, (2) likely helps to improve the Royal’s draft position next year, and (3) potentially helps rebuild Gordon’s confidence and future play, you blast them for acting as though wins in the future are more important than winning now.
The fact is that winning in the future is much more valuable than winning right now, especially with the prospect of Bryce Harper making wins currently UNdesirable. This is a good move in every baseball sense. The only way you can attack this move is by saying it’s less than ethical (which it may be, but Gordon’s sub-.200 average means that it’s at least defensible) and that it’s inconsistent with the “win-now” agenda the Royals management seemed to be pushing earlier this year. You can make the first argument and say the Royals did the smart, but shady thing here. They probably did, but as a fan who wants the team to do well, I’m okay with that. The latter argument is just ridiculous—we should be praising the Royals for making the change we called for, not blasting them for failing to hold firm on an indefensible course.
by kcdc1 on Aug 19, 2009 12:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i've come to expect hypocrisy
it’s standard operating procedure in baseball
i’m more upset that I can’t tell what the plan is, with the team, with individual players, with anything
do you want them to tank game and look 100% long term? then meche and greinke and soria all need to be shut down and let their arms rest for 2010
by royalsreview on Aug 19, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Royals abandon any plan when it doesn't yield immediate results.
They have done this ever since the Glass era began.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Aug 19, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah thats not a bad point
Soria needs to be shutdown, but Meche has to learn how to pitch without walking 4+ guys every start. He’s been terrible ever since that 132 pitch outing.
With that being said, Greinke shouldn’t go more than 6 innings or over 100 pitches the rest of the way
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 19, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Odd, I kind of agree with you again.
He can get 4, NOT 5.
by Warden11 on Aug 19, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've tried
But I can’t muster any strong feelings about this move. It sucks that Gordon is struggling and he’ll probably snap out of it in September, but this does give them an excuse to delay his arb a bit, which will allow us in theory to get good players (or mediocre overpaid ones, knowing Dayton). And Alex can maybe learn to hit some in AAA and regain some confidence.
Meh. Its probably a big move, but I can’t get upset or happy about it.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 19, 2009 1:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
or swallow his pride... wake up... find his passion for the game, etc
whatever the argument is at this moment
by royalsreview on Aug 19, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Get some joy back in his game"
According to Trey
by kcbottom9th on Aug 19, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm wondering how playing for the Royals can be joyful...
“I’m really having a good time here getting my brains beat in night after night…and finding new ways to lose…and wondering WTF is the lineup going to be tonite…and being part of the Wal-Mart way. It’s so much fun I’m ready to pee my pants! Oh, joy!”
by RaulDuke on Aug 19, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree.
The Royals have ruined so many guys that were supposed to be stars for them.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Aug 19, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see how playing with Lenny DiNardo and Scott Thorman would bring one joy
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 19, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What the move does....
1. Adds a year of control of Gordon
2. Allows the Royals to be able to option Gordon without his permission next year.
3. Royals don’t have to DFA a reliever
What is does not do.
1. save money
What is most likely does…
1. No extention for Alex this year
2. Ends up costing the Royals a lot of money if when Gordon plays much better
next year.
Go Royals!
by BabyBlues on Aug 19, 2009 1:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What it does not do
Gets rid of Roman Colon
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 19, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's obviously a group of people
that are going to criticize every move made by the organization; to be honest they’ve earned some of that by being so terrible. However, just as honestly, it gets kinda old.
Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Aug 19, 2009 2:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It seems like only days ago
that we sent Hochevar to Omaha and named Ponson a starter.
That wasn't about the FA clock, either.
by hippdoghipp on Aug 19, 2009 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I addressed this earlier
Didn’t Hochevar come up to KC and SUCK for 3 starts (granted a small sample size to be sure, but it WAS a pattern if suckitude when he first arrived).
In order to get bent out of shape about this move, I think you had to have been bent out of shape about Davies being sent down earlier this year. I’m not sure if THAT maneuver added a year of team control to Davies, but they are similar players. Highly regarded. Shown flashes at MLB level, but nothing consistent. Both moves were performance based first, with any secondary $$ advantages surely taken into consideration.
Furthermore, again, back to my point about Mob-Mentality of hating GMDM right now…I think that if GMDM hadn’t moved Gordon down, despite his struggling, there would have been somebody that posted how moronic it was for GMDM NOT to send down a struggling Gordon, when he had the chance to delay the FE Clock…
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Aug 19, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was pretty funny I thought when Butler was demoted last year
and then Gordon sucked in June. I wasn’t a fan of Alex last year and argued, and I admit erroneously, that Guillen was a better player.
But how the fuck can you defend Alex Gordon staying in the lineup? He’s been terrible!
I hope this works because we need this guy to bounce back next year like Butler did this year
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 19, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not defending Gordon staying in the lineup!
Are you reading my posts? This is the best move GMDM has made since signing Greinke
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Aug 19, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh no man
im just supporting you there …the “how the F can you” was to anyone who’s not with us!
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 20, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alex has been much better since coming off the DL
I think he had a key part in making the lineup better. When he started, we seemed to score more runs. I’m not sure what the stats are, but it just seemed like we had more baserunners.
I did have some exception to this paragraph though.
bq.This is what it means to be a fan of a poorly-run team.
I don’t think this shows that we are a poorly run team. I think this move shows that we are a team that is looking to save some money. It seems as though because we didn’t unload any at the deadline, David Glass took his closer look at the MLB roster and said, “why don’t you send Gordon down and save me some money?” I don’t know if that’s the case, but isn’t it odd that they make this move after Glass makes his comments about seeing the MLB team?
Either way, I’m not sure if this the right move. I’m looking at both sides and seeing the positives on both.
On one hand, Alex gets to regain confidence and completely heal. (I just don’t see why they didn’t do this immediately rather than working him into the MLB when he was by his own admission, 75-80%.)
On the other hand, I see the Royals trying to save a year of Alex Gordon when they will be more competitive.
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by 306008 on Aug 19, 2009 8:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd disagree with you here.
I don’t think this shows that we are a poorly run team.
Bringing him back and then doing it the day before the service time “cut off” date doesn’t look good for anyone involved. Do it two weeks ago or just option him AAA right off his rehab stint. There has been a ton of comments asking why Gordon was playing when the organization openly admitted he wasn’t going to be 100%.
He can get 4, NOT 5.
by Warden11 on Aug 19, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MAKES GAMES LESS
interesting to watch, even though they already are…but did you really expect anything else? seriously? glass blows and moore is just a pawn
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
by DESTROYER on Aug 20, 2009 8:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Petty and embarrassing?
It’s petty and embarrassing to send a player down to buy an extra year of team control? Was it petty and embarrassing when the Rays did that? Or is it wise and savvy when a better front office does it?
The bottom line is that when your season is blown, then an organization should do things which will help the future. To hell with the present. The present is screwed. If sending Gordon down now gets the Royals an extra year of his service in the future, then this is a very good move.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Aug 20, 2009 5:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
IF THATS THE CASE
then resign him to a 3 year contract
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
by DESTROYER on Aug 21, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Royals Can't Hit
The Royals shoud do everything they can to reduce the amount they have to pay to Alex Gordon because he does not hit well enough to be in the big leagues. Gordon is no longer a prospect, he is a suspect.
by Royals Can't Hit on Aug 22, 2009 1:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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