The "Once Upon a Time We Were Royals" 2009 All-Star 25 Man Roster
Reminiscing about Royal mistakes we've made over the years, I thought it might be interesting to see what a Royals team might look like with some wishful thinking about the past. This team is based totally off of current 2009 statistics, unless the player is injured. In which case, career lines have been substituted.
Starting with the infield, we have a bunch of current Royals. Gordon (career line substituted), Aviles (career line subbed), Callaspo, Butler, and Olivo. The only addition there is Mark Ellis at 2nd base to make the defense better. Callaspo will probably start more due to the bat (though Ellis isn't much of a downgrade there), and exit for a defensive replacement after the 6th. Though a platoon with Callaspo facing lefties would probably be ideal (.900+ OPS) as Ellis is pretty close in his platoon splits.
The backups are familiar faces as well. Bloomquist makes this team for his positional flexibility and speed (sub Esteban German if you like, but at the same salary). Brayan Pena is the backup catcher. Teahen also is on the team for flexibility and a nice pinch hitter. DDJ is the 4th OFer and a pinch hitter as well.
The real meat of this team is in the OF and DH spots however. With an All-Star OF of Johnny Damon, Carlos Beltran, and Raul Ibanez, with Jermaine Dye as the DH.
The 2009 salaries of all these players is $69.304M, roughly what the Royals are paying for their current team. By far, the biggest cost here is Beltran with $19.24M going to him. If you'd rather play DDJ there (and that is an option despite what DM thinks), that would drop this part of payroll to $50.064M.
Now on to the starting pitchers. Greinke and Meche are #1 and #2 (179 ERA+ for Greinke and 92 for Meche). Blast from the past, Jose Rosado takes the 3rd spot, as I wish the Royals had not blown his arm out (114 career ERA+). I've substituted the 34 year old Rosado's career averages into my numbers, and scaled them for what a likely contribution would have been this season, though I believe he'd probably put up a season similar to Meche's. #4 and #5 are Jorge de la Rosa and Bannister. Both are just a hair under league average this season (ERA+ for Banny is 98, JDLR is 99). De la Rosa has put together some great starts in Colorado this year. So there's your rotation.
The bullpen would be significantly different. Hochevar and Davies would likely be there (or someone else while they pitch at AAA, your choice). Jeremy Affeldt is back, as well as JP Howell, Ramon Ramirez, and of course Joakim Soria is the closer. Now that's a bullpen I can live with.
The total cost of this pitching staff? $36.025M. And that assumes that Rosado is making the same money as Gil Meche, $11.4M. Combined with the earlier payroll, that amounts to $105.329M. Unrealistic you say? Yes, probably. So let's throw away Beltran like was done originally (which is why I put Teahen on this 25 man roster), and we come to $86.089 with DDJ in CF. That number is doable. To make an even better point, we could still put Hoch/Davies in the 5th starter role and drop Rosado, making this payroll exactly what the Royals are paying for this craptacular season. Without wishful thinking Rosado, the wishful thinking Royals would have a $75.489M payroll (add 2 league minimum players like Leo Nunez/Carlos Rosa/Disco Hayes/a bat, again your choice).
On to production, using the lineup Musinator, a lineup with Beltran and Callaspo scores between 5.794 and 5.296 runs per game. A lineup with DDJ and Mark Ellis scores between 5.383 and 4.985 runs per game. Both are significant increases over the current ~4 runs per game.
For pitching, a staff with Rosado has a FIP of 4.03. A staff without Rosado actually gets a little better as his FIP is 4.46. So even without him, we'll stick to using the 4.03 number, as it is higher than the real number, and I'm lazy. The Royals have played 120 games this year, that translates to 484 earned runs allowed. This is quite the coincidence. That is exactly how many runs that the Royals have scored this year. So basically, that pitching staff would turn every opponent into the 2009 Royals hitters! Even being generous and saying that the Royals would give up 60 unearned runs with this defense (they currently have 58 if I added right), that makes 544 runs allowed.
Going back to the batters, using the lowest number for the lineup, assuming Trey likes to go with the least optimal lineup (let's face it, of all Royal managers still in the league, who would you pick? Tony Pena or Trey?), the Royals will score 4.985 runs per game in a lineup without Beltran and Callaspo won't be starting everyday. That is 598 runs, a difference of about a run a game.
Using Pythagorean record, we see that this run differential should amount to somewhere around a .547 winning percentage, or 66-54 through 120 games. That would put the Royals 2 games in front of the Tigers for the division lead, and that's just the lower bound. If you want to use the high end of the lineup estimator (still without Beltran) and think our defense would be better (we'll cut unearned runs in half), then we get 514 RA, and 646 scored, for a Pythagorean record of 69-51. Still just a 3 game improvement. So the Royals would likely be somewhere between 60-75 wins, and either running away with the division in a lucky year, or in tight competition for it in a bad luck year.
This exercise has made me realize that the Royals are much further away from contending than I think most of us thought. It literally takes 3 all-star caliber players in Dye, Ibanez, and Damon to improve our offense enough to the point where we can contend, while the bullpen has to basically be gutted. The rotation is quite the bright spot though, and figures to possibly get better with the addition of Aaron Crow by hopefully Sept 2010. It also takes a healthy Aviles and Gordon. Though a breakout from Gordon might preclude having to sign one of the all-stars mentioned above.
Another thing it makes me realize is that had Glass been willing to spend money when we had all these players in 1999, we could have been going to the playoffs more than once or twice with a pitching staff that wasn't complete crap. I wish this could shame him into changing the past, but I'd settle for changing the future. Hopefully we have another window of opportunity approaching with our drafted players that will allow the Royals to do what should have been done starting in 1999.
| Salary (in millions) | G | PA | HR | RBI | SB | BB | SO | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | OPS+ | |
| Damon | $13.000 | 111 | 489 | 22 | 68 | 9 | 53 | 74 | 0.285 | 0.365 | 0.519 | 0.883 | 129 |
| Beltran | $19.240 | 62 | 280 | 8 | 40 | 11 | 37 | 34 | 0.336 | 0.425 | 0.527 | 0.952 | 150 |
| Dye | $11.500 | 111 | 455 | 24 | 71 | 0 | 47 | 82 | 0.271 | 0.352 | 0.495 | 0.847 | 115 |
| Ibanez | $7.170 | 93 | 409 | 27 | 78 | 4 | 34 | 84 | 0.289 | 0.352 | 0.589 | 0.941 | 140 |
| Aviles | $0.420 | 138 | 568 | 11 | 59 | 9 | 22 | 84 | 0.293 | 0.322 | 0.429 | 0.75 | 99 |
| Mark Ellis | $5.000 | 64 | 243 | 6 | 44 | 6 | 13 | 34 | 0.278 | 0.315 | 0.43 | 0.746 | 100 |
| Callaspo | $0.416 | 115 | 462 | 7 | 45 | 1 | 34 | 31 | 0.295 | 0.346 | 0.429 | 0.776 | 105 |
| Gordon | $0.457 | 314 | 1281 | 34 | 130 | 27 | 119 | 285 | 0.248 | 0.329 | 0.412 | 0.741 | 95 |
| Butler | $0.421 | 118 | 491 | 14 | 64 | 0 | 38 | 75 | 0.298 | 0.352 | 0.483 | 0.836 | 120 |
| Olivo | $2.700 | 88 | 313 | 16 | 42 | 3 | 9 | 98 | 0.237 | 0.269 | 0.465 | 0.734 | 90 |
| Brayan Pena | $0.405 | 38 | 107 | 3 | 10 | 0 | 6 | 8 | 0.32 | 0.352 | 0.485 | 0.837 | 120 |
| Bloomy | $1.400 | 96 | 360 | 4 | 25 | 18 | 21 | 57 | 0.257 | 0.3 | 0.356 | 0.656 | 74 |
| Teahen | $3.575 | 115 | 453 | 10 | 40 | 6 | 30 | 99 | 0.281 | 0.336 | 0.429 | 0.765 | 102 |
| DDJ | $3.600 | 114 | 493 | 9 | 55 | 4 | 43 | 67 | 0.264 | 0.336 | 0.415 | 0.751 | 99 |
| $69.304 | 1577 | 6404 | 195 | 771 | 98 | 506 | 1112 | 0.276 | 0.329 | 0.453 | 0.782 |
| ERA | G | SV | IP | H | ER | HR | BB | SO | ERA+ | FIP | ||
| Greinke | $3.750 | 2.44 | 25 | 0 | 173.1 | 159 | 47 | 10 | 38 | 182 | 179 | 2.56 |
| Meche | $11.400 | 4.73 | 21 | 0 | 118 | 128 | 62 | 14 | 56 | 91 | 92 | 4.70 |
| J de la Rosa | $2.000 | 4.58 | 24 | 0 | 135.2 | 132 | 69 | 16 | 57 | 140 | 99 | 4.02 |
| J Rosado | $11.400 | 4.27 | 25 | 1 | 144.02 | 143 | 68.4 | 17.2 | 47.4 | 96.8 | 114 | 4.46 |
| Banny | $0.400 | 4.44 | 23 | 0 | 140 | 145 | 69 | 14 | 46 | 89 | 98 | 4.21 |
| Hochevar | $0.400 | 5.73 | 16 | 0 | 92.2 | 105 | 59 | 16 | 26 | 70 | 76 | 4.98 |
| Davies | $1.300 | 5.92 | 17 | 0 | 94.1 | 103 | 62 | 15 | 46 | 65 | 74 | 5.45 |
| Affeldt | $3.500 | 1.8 | 54 | 0 | 45 | 30 | 9 | 1 | 25 | 38 | 241 | 3.33 |
| JP Howell | $0.434 | 2.18 | 56 | 14 | 57.2 | 39 | 14 | 5 | 22 | 69 | 208 | 3.08 |
| RamRam | $0.441 | 2.21 | 53 | 0 | 53 | 40 | 13 | 4 | 23 | 41 | 214 | 3.94 |
| Soria | $1.000 | 2.15 | 33 | 20 | 37.2 | 27 | 9 | 4 | 10 | 47 | 203 | 2.96 |
| $36.025 | 3.98 | 347 | 35 | 1,089 | 1,051 | 481 | 116 | 396 | 929 | 4.03 |
So who would you include in your wishful thinking Royals All-Star 2009 team? Did I make any glaring omissions?
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Don't look at
his stats for playing in Coors Field they’re pretty decent
That's the worst lookin' hat I've ever seen...
Neither did I
He’s getting so many strikeouts, he’s actually been useful to me on a fantasy team that is pitching starved.
Great work... I often daydream "what if"
Another thing it makes me realize is that had Glass been willing to spend money when we had all these players in 1999, we could have been going to the playoffs more than once or twice with a pitching staff that wasn’t complete crap.
I think this is not only a good point, but could have been quite possible. We would have had some decent pitching to help bridge the staff from 1999 to the Greinke/Soria era. Guys like Paul Byrd and Jeff Suppan posted some respectable FIPs during that interim period. They weren’t lights-out, but they would have kept the rotation from being “complete crap”, making multiple playoff appearances more likely (as you noted).
Of course if your gonna day dream why not go all out...
Braun instead of Gordon, Lincecum instead of Hochevar.
Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures
Well... that's a bit different from what I intended
This team is made up of only former Royals. While I’m cherry picking the past, it’s not like most of these guys were complete losers that were run out of town. I feel like a good owner may even still have some of these former players if he was willing to spend money.
You had me until you inserted Jose Rosado
I understand it’s a fantasy, but I think using players that have actually been useful in the last decade makes a better point. So, here are some other options for those who don’t want to have Hochevar in the rotation:
Paul Byrd: 98 ERA+ in 2008 in 180 IP. Salary around $7M
Odalis Perez: I know, I know, but he’s not horrible with even a 101 ERA+ last year (granted, in the NL). He probably wouldn’t play for cheap either.
Brett Tomko: Career ERA+ of 92. earning $850K
Todd Wellemeyer: Career ERA+ of 93. (Only 74 this year, though 115 last year.) $4M
Brandon Duckworth: It would make devil_fingers happy
Joachim Soria
I chose not to include Jeff Suppan or Miguel Batista. There aren’t many more former Royals starting in ML right now.
Also, I would Keep Baltran and replace Damon with DeJesus. I doubt Damon’s slugging would be the same outside of Yankee Stadium and it would save $10M. This leaves a roster of:
Beltran $19.240
Dye $11.500
Ibanez $7.170
DDJ $3.600
Butler $0.421
Callspo $0.416
Ellis $5.000
Aviles $0.420
Gordon $0.457
Olivo $2.700
B.Pena $0.405
Teahen $3.575
Bloomy $1.400
Greinke $3.750
Meche $11.400
JDLR $2.000
Banny $0.40
Hoch $0.400
Affeldt $3.500
Howell $0.434
RRam $0.441
Soria $1.000
Davies $1.300
Joe Nelson $1.300
Paul Byrd $ 7.000
Tomko $ 0.850
Gotta run. Finishing touches later.
Subtract either Tomko or Byrd
With Byrd you have a payroll of $87,929,000. Tomko makes it $81, 779,000.
By the way, Joe Nelson has a 113 ERA+ in 40.1 IP this season.
Yeah, I forgot about Joe.
I actually like him quite a bit and was sad to see him go. Back when he won the AAA award for Pitcher of the year he was signing autographs on Futures Night, even though he’d been with the big team for a good chunk of the year. No one was in his line, so I actually got to talk to him for a few minutes and he was very friendly. Great guy.
Yeah, Rosado is a complete pipe dream.
Which is why he’s left off the team in the end, with a $75M payroll. Plus, I really don’t like any of the guys you’ve listed above. Everyone but Duckworth (has Duck ever had any success?) and Soria have had most of their success in the NL too. I would never willingly pay Tomko to suck, nor put him on an all-star team. And the team was based off of players having a good year in 2009, so I don’t think they all fit. I hate when guys like this are brought in to fill the holes in the rotation. It’s been going on since the 90’s, and they’re never any good, with the exception of Paul Byrd, who parlayed that year with us into millions. To me it’s the same move the Royals make every year, and I’ve grown to hate it. Ponson, HoRam, and Chen this year. Scott Elarton, Mark Redman, etc. The sad fact of the matter is that Elarton and Redman would have been borderline #5 starters on any other team, yet they were our aces. How did the Royals ever win games like that? Baffling.
If that comes off as a bit angry, it’s not directed at you, but rather Royals management. So don’t take it personal.
No offense taken
I don’t like most of the pitchers listed, either, though I’ve always liked Paul Byrd.
Yeah, Byrd wasn't horrible.
I just never thought he was much more than a #2 or 3 at best. If you look at his career ERA+ numbers, he hangs around league average most years, and had 3 breakouts. His rookie year, he had a big year as a reliever in just a handful of games (17 G, 22 IP). But his 1998 and 2002 were accompanied by very low BABIPs. So he had really good defense making him look better, or he was just really lucky those years. His career FIP line of 4.72 suggests a slightly below league average pitcher.
Good list
no way callaspo should ever start at 2B over Mark Ellis, though
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
Not even with a .900 OPS vs. lefties?
I know all the stuff you’ve written about platoon splits, and how that likely won’t stay that high, but damn, it’s impressive.
He's at least 15 runs a season worse than Ellis on defense
probably more like 20
Callaspo’s had a great season with the bat, and at this stage is clearly a better hitter than Ellis. Keep; in mind that although it does look like Callaspo is the LHP-mashing sort of switch hitter, that, would be the same platoon split Ellis has, as well, making them redundant as a platoon.
Also, while Callaspo has a .910 OPS (as of this writing) against LHP this season in 155 PA, for his career he’s a good if much less awesome .815 vs. LHP. But he’s not quite 300 PAs in, so his platoon skill would still be heavilly regressed towards even.
To get an idea of how we need to be circumspect about his splits, keep in mind that Ellis had a .984 OPS vs. LHP in 207 in 172 PA.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 21, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
fun excersise .........sight......making noose now
When super delayed gratification meets with underachieving veteran they laugh at the Royals, just a hypothesis though
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Aug 21, 2009 12:23 PM EDT reply actions
Do you think these ex-Royals
Omit the fact that they played for the Royals on their resume, much like I omit the fact that I worked at St. Louis Bread Company on my resume?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Lehman Brothers!
At least they were the sacrificial lamb. I’d really hate to be ex-AIG.
by chiefstatnut on Aug 21, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I know a kid
who just went to work for AIG.
St. Louis was the co. the guy that runs Panera used to own? or is panera a revised St. Louis. I had only vaguely heard of it.
I doubt we'd have Hochevar, Grienke, Butler, or Meche had we kept...
Damon, Beltran, and Dye….but I guess that’s beside the point.
We’re a LEGIT RF and 1B/DH away from even thinking about contending. And that’s assuming we get the bullpen BS figured out. And that Gordon gets his stuff together.
well... especially Meche
b/c the payroll couldn’t afford his $55MM contract.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Aug 21, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
why couldn't it?
I guess if you count Beltran and Rosado that’s too much. So take away Rosado you have a $95M payroll. Take away Beltran, that’s $75 including Meche, which is what it is now.
No Hochevar
Maybe no Greinke, but he was drafted in 2002—the year after we traded Dye, so our record wouldn’t have been hugely different because we had no pitching. Also, Greinke wasn’t considered a no question pick, either. Butler was considered a reach and a signability pick, so I don’t doubt that he still would have been available.
You are correct in that.
Though we may still get Hochevar as he was a lot higher pick the prior year when he didn’t sign, because teams were scared about his signability. And Butler was a midround pick in 2004 (after our good 2003), so he’s still possible as well.
Great Work
We might be able to pull the division with this team
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Nick Punto - BouJouma
Please takeyour latte circle jerk to another thread. -WU
babies are young and under team control for at least 12 years -Billyok
i heard kenny williams' mother bought a lottery ticket and lost so kenny williams traded his mother - Billyok
Foul!!
I want their stats adjusted to the amount of time they spend in their home park as to see whose park is playing more to their advantage when they really shouldn’t or wouldn’t be an all-star here in the vast spaciousness of the field known only as Kauffman Stadium. Thanks.
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