Send down Maier and bring up RPTPJ NOW!
by royalsroyalsroyals on Aug 23, 2009 2:43 PM EDT
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TPJ has now pitched a game at Burlington without getting a loss! His line is now 3 games, 1 start (!?), 2 losses, 4.2 innings, 6h, 5r, 4er, 1hr, 4bb, 4k, 1hbp, 1wp.
IMO the transition of Pena is the ultimate proof that this crazy train has indeed gone off the rails. He delivers 1 inning of flinging the ball (to batters who were only trying to not get plunked) with an untenable delivery in the last inning of a blowout game and a year later the R's decide, "Well, he can't hit, ergo he must be a pitcher!" Apparently we have about 20 pitchers in the clubhouse. Rock on.
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He didn't just strike out Pudge though
He made Pudge look stupid while striking out. That’s tough to do, to a veteran MLB batter, let alone a SS that doesn’t pitch accomplishing that. It’s worth a try, if it fails, it fails. Who cares? If it works, great, we have a decent reliever. I just don’t see how the move can be criticized. It’s better than watching him bat .100 all year.
Saying it's worth a try
is saying it’s worth diverting actual resources and roster space for this project. How many live arms are in the major leagues among non-pitchers? Hey, they’re major leaguers, so lots. That doesn’t make them pitchers. This guy can’t pitch, and for a fan to think it’s trippy and fun to watch a position player strike out a hitter in a meaningless inning is fine, but for a professional organization not to realize the difference between a side show act like that inning was and a real pitcher with potential is very sad. Sure I’m making too much of this little footnote of a storyline, but like I said it’s a defining moment to me to realize that’s what this organization has come to — hail marys and prayers in the wind.
Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?
by royalsroyalsroyals on Aug 23, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe you should give him a little more time.
He hasn’t pitched (outside of 1 inning) in 10 years. To judge him as a failure after 3 one inning stints would be idiotic. Consider the learning curve and the fact that he is facing professional hitters. This article does a nice job breaking down his inning vs the Tigers.
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/2009/7/29/967366/middle-infielders-on-the-mound
Worst case scenario we will never see Tony Pena Jr. again in KC. That alone makes this a good idea.
I am stupified
by the reasoning that this is a good idea because it removes Pena from the everyday lineup. So the only way to get Betancourt out of the lineup is to have him pitch? Besides, I don’t judge him a failure because of the one inning, I judge the Royals a failure for putting any stock in that one inning. Very few people are capable of being big league pitchers. I’ve seen those people and so have you. TPJ is not one of them. If you don’t see that then you may have a job waiting for you in Dayton’s think tank.
(Honestly, I don’t mean to be so argumentative… I assumed the calls for TPJ to become a pitcher over the last year were all tongue-in-cheek… I had no idea people really believed in the idea, let alone the Royals.)
Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?
by royalsroyalsroyals on Aug 23, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
You are apparently misinformed...
Let me rectify that.
We were not calling for TPJ to be a pitcher based on one inning, nor did the organization make this move based on that one inning.
To think that would be absolutely stupid.
The reason this experiment is getting off the ground is that there is plenty of evidence that Pena was a better pitcher than hitter dating back to his High School days.
In fact his coach told him to enter the draft as a pitcher, but TPJ said he preferred to play the field.
This isn’t a case of, oh hey, he did good once, maybe that wasn’t a freak occurance. Its a case of, this guy had a great arm in the past, stopped using it in order to be a SS, and now that that has failed, is going back to that arm.
Oh…and BTW unless I’m mistaken, this move is actually saving the organization money, since they don’t have to pay him as much since hes in the minors.
I refuse to set up a signature....DAMMIT
by RoyalPug on Aug 23, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is diverting 20 innings, at most, over the rest of year, wasting resources?
I doubt it. If they don’t think he can hack it after this little tryout, he’ll be gone. Like Pug and Balboni said, he was a pitcher before this, which is part of the reason he shined when he was given his chance. Most shortstops at the MLB level were pitchers in HS. They are typically the best overall athletes on the field in high school. I just don’t see how someone can be this upset about a move made midway through a season, and the guy is down in A ball, not stealing innings from anyone. Had we cut Tim Mehlville to give Pena the opportunity, I could understand the outrage. Otherwise, this seems like a bit of an overreaction.
By the way, how did you react to Mike Stodolka (former 1st round pick for the Royals) converting from Pitcher to OF? Was that silly, or was it a valuable trial? I suppose Rick Ankiel should be at home in his parent’s basement blogging away about his failed pitching career? Give me a break.
I am happy that he's no longer in KC.
But that is only a by-product of making him a pitcher. He has always had a strong arm. If you watch the video http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200807223172128 , Pena flashes a 90+ MPH fastball a 90 MPH sinker and a get me over curve ball. What I don’t understand is how you can be mad about a move that not only removes him from our 40 man roster, saves us money, and keeps us from having to watch the worst hitter in the history of the franchise (WIN, WIN, WIN) I see it as something like signing a 8th round draft pick. He has a strong arm, and has flashed some ability. If he doesn’t make it (which he probably won’t) we cut him.
by Balboni on Aug 23, 2009 5:43 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
If you see a pitcher in that video
then good for you. We’ll just disagree. I see someone so far from even possibly being a big-league pitcher that I consider the whole conversion thing to be an embarrassment to the organization. Yes he was a pitcher in high school. My high school had better pitchers.
Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?
by royalsroyalsroyals on Aug 23, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll agree to disagree with you,
this move however (imo) is not in the top 50, in terms of embarrassing the franchise. In fact it shows the ability to think outside the box, which the organizition needs more of. The guy hasn’t pitched to professional hitters ever, and hasn’t pitched period in 10 years. To write him off after 4.2 innings is a bit premature.
As for seeing a pitcher in the video, the 90 MPH sinker, and the curveball to Pudge certainly look like quality pitches to me. Who’s to say with professional coaching and focusing on pitching, that he can’t see an uptick in velocity and become a middle reliever. The kicker is that it costs us almost nothing to try.
*sigh
I hate to prolong this agonizingly pointless argument – which is all my fault for bringing up in the first place and yes I deeply regret it – but I don’t count high-A roster spots cheaply and thus consider this to have some cost to the organization. Also, that curve gets raked if Pudge’s approach isn’t “I don’t want to get beaned by this hard-throwing amateur in a meaningless at-bat.” (Why was he even in the game at that point?) And it isn’t the one inning or the high school experience or the 4.2 innings that I’m looking at – it’s the way Pena throws the ball. He’ll never hit the strike zone with consistency. He has a live arm and moderate velocity but to so do a lot of people. I can’t disprove the “anything can happen” argument… I just don’t think it’s a good way to build your farm system. And now I will ask forgiveness from all who have read this post and pray that we all forget its contents forever.
p.s. I do generally appreciate the “outside the box” thinking you mentioned. Perhaps we are not so different, you and I.
Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?
by royalsroyalsroyals on Aug 23, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
You do realize ALL MLB clubs have a lot of random guys just filling spots in their farm systems, right?
I just don’t think it’s a good way to build your farm system.
He can get 4, NOT 5.
eyes can be deceiving
i would really like to recommend the drive line mechanics article again. You may not like what you see,but that fastball has above average sink and that alone will probably get him a cup a tea in the bigs.
sure, as long as they remove those pesky strike zone rules
Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?
by royalsroyalsroyals on Aug 24, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with r3 on this one
I was all pumped to watch Pena’s inning last after hearing about it, but when I did i was totally disappointed…
1. He benefitted from very generous strike calls
2. His curveball to Pudge was just hanging there waiting to be crushed.
I don’t feel that strongly about this either, but I think his spot would be much better used by a recent college grad with a little more actual proven pitching ability. There have to be plenty of guys with Pena’s arm that are actually still young.
Quick, name a shortstop who washed out of professional baseball completely
before being invited back to reinvent himself as a pitcher.
And who appeared in one game against the Royals just this over the weekend.
It doesn't fit "And who appeared in one game against the Royals just this over the weekend."
But Trevor Hoffman was a SS first: http://m.rockymountainnews.com/news/2006/apr/17/hoffmans-shortstop-turned-closer-role-began-in/
Indeed he was
but the guy I’m thinking of was out of baseball for a full year between the end of his minor-league career as a shortstop and the start of his career as a pitcher.
Another hint: he was 21 in the year he “Did Not Play.”
My Trevor Hoffman find should have made it more obvious who it was
Joe Nathan was the 2nd to last pitcher I checked in the box scores. He even had a TPJ like line in his age 20 season: .232 .320 .345
We’re not saying TPJ will be Nathan or Hoffman, but I fail to see the harm this does.
Yes
and exactly, it’s not likely to amount to much, one way or the other. If you want to argue that something does a ballclub harm, you’re probably going to have to show that it somehow reduces the talent available, either right away or in the future. In this case, I find it very hard to imagine that the relatively low number of innings TPJ is going to pitch this year — he’s not even up to 9 full innings between Rookie and A ball now — would cause the Royals to overlook an incipient Chad Durbin somewhere in their system.
A Blake Stein, maybe?
Baseball players tend to be good at playing baseball,
so I’m never surprised when a player shows an aptitude for playing different positions and then successfully manages a transition. I think if he stopped pitching today, ZG could quickly become this organization’s best SS.
BUT, Pena is not 20, which makes rather a difference here, I think. And it really isn’t the (agreed) rather minor drain on our organization’s resources that has me riled. It’s my perception that someone in the front office saw one statistically worthless inning of relief and decided to make this move… from a player who shows (me, anyway) no possibility of being a pitcher.
Go to a competitive high school game in the metro area – Pena is developmentally years behind the better pitchers you’ll see. (I’ll bet my entire Royals Bobblehead collection that Joe Nathan looked pretty good on the mound from the get-go). That’s the sum total cause of my outrage.
(Things we agree on: Pena’s ball moves a lot, he has not-horrible velocity, the move is not overly expensive, it is nice to not have him playing SS in KC, some players transition well, anything can happen, this post will never be rec’d)
Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?
by royalsroyalsroyals on Aug 25, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
I coached a little HS baseball as an assistant, I never saw anyone that could throw 90 MPH. The guys that can are draft prospects. Also, I agree, Zack is probably a better hitter and SS than Yuniefi.
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on the Pena pitching part. Just think about it though, it’s pure genius. The master plan is to obtain the Diamondbacks’ Tony Pena, so we can have Tony Pena relieve Tony Pena.
This from the KC Star:
•Tony Peña pitched two scoreless innings Sunday and got a hold in Class A Burlington’s 2-1 victory at Quad Cities in a Midwest League game.
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