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Dayton Moore and his unquestionable ability to build bullpens!

Do you know what would be an awesome bullpen?

J.P. Howell – 59 games, 2.52 ERA, 15 saves.

Ramon Ramirez – 57 games, 2.67 ERA.

Leo Nunez – 60 games, 3.90 ERA, 16 Saves.

Mike MacDougal – 42 games, 3.10 ERA, 14 saves.

Jeremy Affeldt – 58 games, 1.85 ERA.

Joe Nelson – 42 games, 4.02 ERA.

Wow, too bad the Royals can never find guys like this!  Wait a minute….

Star-divide

Turns out bullpen evaluation seer Dayton Moore traded all these guys away!  Well, I’m sure he got a lot of value in return for that batch of "pitching currency!"  Let’s see how much THOSE incoming guys are helping the Royals out now! 

Hmm, seems the only ones left from those trades are Mike Jacobs and Coco Crisp.  Yeah, they aren’t helping out so much this year.  At least they are both leaving after this season.  And they were kinda chea...  Well, at least they are both leaving soon.

Well, I betcha Moore saved the team a bunch of money on those trades!  Moore can always find cheap bullpen talent on the open market like Mahay and Farnsworth and Yabuta and Cruz and Bale and Wright.  He must be paying those guys almost nothing to replace the guys he traded gave away.  A little mistake here and there, no big deal.  A bullpen oracle like Moore will always be able to build a good 'pen on the cheap!   Oh, ... hmmm, those guys cost $16 million this year alone? well, … crap.

Well, I bet the pitching prospects Moore picked up over the last three years are banging at the doors now!  Once rosters expand the fans should be ready for quite a treat!  The future on display.  Yup, when …. well, maybe when Carlos Rosa … gets …. here …  oh, he was already in the organization when Moore was hired?  Hmm.  Yeah, this is getting awkward.

Bruce Chen was cheap!

crap

So, let's see if I understand this correctly.  Dayton Moore traded away or released a group of very good and very inexpensive relief pitchers, and replaced them with a group of very bad and very expensive relief pitchers, and in return for the trades he collected a gaggle of very bad and very expensive position players who are all more or less out of the organization already?  And, three years into Moore's watch, in terms of pitching prospects in the high minors, the Royals cupboard is bare.  Now, why are the Royals are thinking about extending Dayton Moore's contract over a year before his current one expires?  Is there any accountablity in this organization at all?

5 recs  |  Comment 36 comments

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it sounds to me like someone needs to work on

Trusting the Process!!!!!!!!

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Aug 29, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yup, there is a lack of respect here for the "process."

if it were not for bad luck and injuries we would be at least 10 games behind the Nationals.

by grudz96 on Aug 29, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is Wayton Krivmoore in a group think bubble? Or is he just poorly informed about, ... well, baseball?

Maybe I could do a better job of trusting the process if I new what the process was.

From the evidence at hand the process involves Dayton Moore signing guys who he personally likes to see around the ballpark. Winning games and individual improvement of baseball skills apparently are not a factor in the ongoing process.

Since posting that story earlier this week about my losing confidence in Dayton Moore I’ve been thinking about what he could do at this point to win it back. I think one thing would be to actually present a coherent public statement as to what process he is using to improve the club. If I actually knew what he was trying to do I probably could evaluate his performance more fairly, offer more meaningful feedback on his management decisions. As it is Moore just seems like a poorly informed guy who is not learning from past mistakes and who is refusing to pay attention to feedback from outside his group think bubble. All stories with that plot line end the same way.

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Aug 29, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seems like Dayton and someone else aren't getting any respect

NCAA Football; better than everything. That is an understatement.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Sep 1, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Journey Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!

NCAA Football; better than everything. That is an understatement.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Sep 1, 2009 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So depressing but true

Phase 1: Assemble expensive, below average players
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: CHAMPIONSHIP!
-RoyalsRetro

by ratherfantastic on Aug 29, 2009 6:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Mac is the one that stands out to me

Who would have thought he’d be a closer again (and doing fairly well)?

Yes, I'm still alive. Sorry to disappoint you.

by royaldaddy on Aug 29, 2009 6:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I always had an irrational love of Mac

Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures

by averagegatsby on Aug 29, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me too.

My favorite interleague play moment was when he froze Pujols to end a game in 2003, giving the Royals 2 of 3 in St. Louis. Never seen Pujols look that bad before or since.

by jbrocato on Aug 30, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t want anyone pitching in a national league bullpen. That’s weak sauce.

by sfeldkamp on Aug 29, 2009 7:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Few other things

There were a few more relief pitchers Dayton Moore saw fit to jettison without meaningful compensation that I didn’t include on the above list. Todd Wellemeyer certainly seems like an obvious case. But, then again, I was ready to pink slip Welly when he got the axe so it would be disingenuous to hold that one against Dayton. Kyle Snyder gave Boston a year and a half of very good work before he was injured. Jeff Fulchino is putting together a very good year in Houston (43 games, 3.61 ERA) but I sure didn’t see that one coming. Moore got rid of all these with nothing of value in return.

Since Moore gave away Ramon Ramirez for Crisp he ended up losing the Jorge De La Rosa trade pretty badly in the long run. George of the Rose has become a solid middle of the rotation starter in Colorado. I sure would have rather seen Jorge on the mound this year instead of the Chen/HoRam/Ponson beast. A year of Jorge sure would have been more valuable than a couple months of Coco, and a lot cheaper as well.

Also, it might be worth mentioning that the above “awesome” six man bullpen was made up of five guys Moore inherited and one he traded a valuable starting pitcher for (Ramirez). So, Moore can’t fall back on the story that he was just trading away value that he had built up himself. More accurately he was squandering an inheritance.

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Aug 29, 2009 7:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

one thing never mentioned about ramon ramirez this year

is that all of his non-ERA numbers have gotten worse.

fewer strikeouts, more walks, more home runs, more unsustainable BABIP creating a FIP that was higher than it was when he was with the Rockies at 4.57.

by 9il on Aug 29, 2009 8:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No Good With Affeldt

Since leaving KC, Jeremy Affeldt has strictly been used as a situational lefty with Colorado, Cinci. and San Fran. They would refuse to use him like that

by JarrodPattersonFan on Aug 29, 2009 9:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

we don't have situational lefties

that apparently isn’t part of the Process

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Aug 29, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but I agree with your statement

is it so hard to understand when/where to use left handed and right handed relievers? I mean, it isn’t like that tricky double switch or anything.

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Aug 29, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's not accurate

Affeldt has been used as a setup guy and faced more righties than lefties (and done well against righties).

by Gopherballs on Aug 30, 2009 3:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Does anyone remember that...

this team started the year 18-11. Since then, it has been a tremendous .313 win percentage, which sadly is still higher than anyone on the team has batted.

by LDB on Aug 29, 2009 11:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Being a Royals fan in Cardinals territory is tough...

especially when looking at what the teams do to improve themselves. I mean, St. Louis only picked up some no names named Holliday, Lugo, DeRosa, and Smoltz, where Kansas City picked up its shortstop of the future! Ha, ha…no wonder we call you the deadbirds!

by LDB on Aug 29, 2009 11:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

But at least KC got back the following for their investment:

Fernando Cortez (now back with TB)
Joey Gathright (now on CHC or BAL?)
Coco Crisp (now out for the year and possibly done with KC)
Mike Jacobs (who is “bleh”)
Daniel Cortes (who was traded, then, for the “SS of the future”)
Tyler Lumsden (now on HOU)
Scott Dohmann (now on ARIZ, via TB)
Ryan Shealy (toiling away in the minors?)

by stlfan on Aug 30, 2009 10:56 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Looks like the Royals spent about $10M on those guys. Well, Shealy gave us two or three solid months spread over the last three years. And Coco was good in April 2009. Gathright was fine for two months in 2008. If you combine them I guess the Royals did aquire about one full season of fine performance (and about two full seasons of horrible performance) by trading away those six pitchers.

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Aug 30, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Mets just picked up Gathright, he's in AAA

Unless I’ve confused him with some other crappy ex-Royal

by AxDxMx on Aug 30, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Completely misremembered it

Gathright is with the Red Sox in AAA.

by AxDxMx on Aug 30, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm going with Pawtucket in 6 or 7 games.

They’ll have to face Greinke twice, and the Royals could possibly sneak a 3rd game somewhere.

by AxDxMx on Aug 30, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crisp by WAR actually was worth his entire salary by playing the little he did.

He is still posted a 1.3 WAR and did it while he was injured.

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Sep 2, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

MacDougal

is barreling towards catastrophe. I don’t want him in the bullpen, despite the nice ERA. I can’t imagine it will be much longer before his role in the Nationals bullpen seems regrettable.

by sumajestad on Aug 30, 2009 2:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I actually think he has pulled it together over the last two months. His post-all star break numbers are very solid. 19.1 Innings, 10 hits, 1.40 ERA, 0.83 Whip. A 13/6 K/BB ratio. He’s been pitching well for two months now, a reasonable sample size. There is renewed hope for MacDougal I believe.

And, if you like saves, he is nine for ten in that category. He certainly would be pitching in high leverage situations here in KC if he were still a Royal.

www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Aug 30, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your argument would have been much stronger if you hadn't included MacDougal

MacDougal has been horrible since he left the Royals (and was pretty horrible much of the time he was with the Royals). Using his Saves to show how good he is? Really? MacDougal hasn’t pulled anything together at all. His tra+ with the Nationals is 85. That is horrendous for a reliever. MacDougal is a horrible pitcher whose good days are far, far behind him.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Aug 31, 2009 3:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

MacDougal has found a home in Washington.

His BAA is .203 in 37.1 IP. He has allowed only 2 HR in that time, and while his K/BB ratio could be much better, his WHIP is respectable and he has managed to not throw a single wild pitch.

Wait until he starts sucking again to throw him under the bus.

- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes

by JobDDT on Aug 31, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

His BABIP is ridiculous too.

.220! That is unsustainable. His FIP is 4.48, while his ERA is 1.93.

Mac is in for one wicked regression to the mean. If he can hold it off til after this season, he’s about to get paid by Dayton Moore to come home (if he’s a FA)!

by AxDxMx on Aug 31, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bad tRA and bad FIP = bad pitching

MacDougal hasn’t made any significant improvement in Washington. He’s (still) awful.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Sep 1, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Horrendous for a reliever. Absolutely horrendous

Those numbers are poor for a SP (particularly the tRA). They are absolutely awful for a reliever (particularly the tRA).

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Sep 2, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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