Moore will be extended through 2014
I don't mind it as much as some of you will. I think Moore is a very average GM. I like his focus on building the farm system, and while this strategy has yet to bear fruit, it's still early, and I think over time, the focus will inevitably pay dividends. His acquisitions at the Major League level have left something to be desired, obviously. All in all, there are better GM's, and there are worse GM's. It'd be nice if Kansas City would have one of the best, but I'm a fan, and I try not to let myself get too frustrated with the whole process. I'm okay rooting for .500 seasons.
11 months ago
kcdc1
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What. The. Fuck.
Seriously.
This is what happens when an owner has no understanding of statistical analysis and doesn’t look too hard at the composition of his own team
Don’t get me wrong, I love Dayton, I’d just love him more if he was the head of scouting and we had a stats guy as the GM
I refuse to set up a signature....DAMMIT
by RoyalPug on Aug 31, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
in many ways, he is just like the GM of Detroit
General Motors, that is
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 4:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Is GMDM destined to be the Matt Millen of baseball?
Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures
by averagegatsby on Aug 31, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
now
that is a good analogy
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Who are the current fourteen (or so) worse GMs that make Moore average?
Who are the other current GMs who do not focus on building the farm system?
by Gopherballs on Aug 31, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
beat me to it
There’s a chance Bill Smith might be worse.
And he’s in the division. So we got that going for us
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 5:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I would have said that before the season
But I think DM has surpassed him. Bill Smith at least made a couple really stupid moves, but stopped this past year. DM has continued to make really dumb moves.
Omar Minaya is probably worse than Dayton. Walt Jocketty is off to a pretty lousy start in Cincy, but he has a terrific track record in St. Louis, so I’m not ready to say he is worse than Dayton. Honestly, I can’t think of anyone worse. The proof is in the pudding – terrible MLB team, below average farm system = bad GM.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
hey, I was just trying to be positive, like people are always telling me to be!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He's had several top 3 first round picks and he fucked them up!
Look at Bumgarner, Matusz, Heyward, Wieters, Posey, Smoak, Beckham….I’m not even exagerrating but it’s GUARANTEED they will be better MLB players than sub .300 OBP Hosmer and Moustakas….wait a minute, now I understand why Moore drafted them!!
This is a fucking nightmare! You all won’t see me around that much. It’s almost impossible to root for this team now. The only satisfaction I had during this awful season is Greinke, Hochevar, Butler and seeing Moore fired.
Why don’t we give Guillen 30 more million or lock Jacobs up to a 25 million dollar contract, pick up Crisp’s option and make Olivo the highest paid catcher in baseball
It’s been real and its been fun, but I can’t handle this shit anymore. Its bad enough rooting for the Mets and Minaya, but atleast he acquires a few decent players and the day is drawing closer to his dismissal.
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 31, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Worse GM?
JP Ricciardi. Not only is he lousy with the farm system, he has a loud mouth.
Mourning Guy Carbonneau...
Royals obscure player to watch in ST: Lenny DiNardo
by playingwithfire on Sep 1, 2009 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions
If you really think More is better than JP Ricciardi
then I have a fat, no-hit, no-defense, overpaid Cuban shortstop to trade you
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by Matt Klaassen on Sep 1, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I defended my school
last year when they decided to extend Ron Prince when he hadn’t deserved it. It is vital (some feel) for recruting in College Football to have a coach that is locked up to at least 2-4 years, so he can look recruits, and their parents in the eye and tell them he WILL be his coach for 4 years and he has the contract to prove it.
I was made an idiot then.
Even though I am HOPEFUL that Dayton Moore just had a bad offseason, and he can right the ship (I voted for GMDM still has my confdence in the recent poll, simply because I do not know who we can hire that CAN right the ship, remember GMDM was the HOME RUN hire just 3 short years ago), I offer NO defense of this move.
BOOM! ROASTED!
Its worse than extending a bad college coach
Because recruiting is all-important. I don’t see the parallel here, though. I doubt free agents care nearly as much that the GM is locked up for 4 more years.
True, but...
I doubt free agents care nearly as much that the GM is locked up for 4 more years.
Yes, but DM has proven that he’s going to go after the wrong FA’s and give them too much money. That’s the problem. Nothing is more important to any MLB team than a GM, and this is doubly true for small market teams. With a poor GM, the Royals have zero chance of contending. Zero.
The immoderate moderator
It only took 30 seconds for delusion to set in
Maybe he’ll learn from his mistakes he made this year. That’s about all we can hope for.
One thing is much more important to a MLB team
For 25 years this was a model organization that was competitive, successful, and even in down years always looked like it had a bright future.
The next 15 years saw this franchise slip to the point where it can sink no lower. It is a sewer-dwelling laughingstock even among non-baseball fans.
The difference is ownership, pure and simple. Dayton Moore couldn’t succeed with this team even if he didn’t suck. Three GMs and six managers and no breaks on the freefall to oblivion. It’s all on the owner and that ain’t changing. These are hopeless times.
Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?
by royalsroyalsroyals on Aug 31, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
It can always get worse.
—Buddy Bell
by chiefstatnut on Aug 31, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
disagree
Ownership is there to provide the money. You can’t tell me Jeffrey effing Loria and whoever runs Oakland and Minnesota are better owners than Glass. Major league payroll the last couple years has been edging towards the middle of the pack, we are spending on draft picks finally. Even though we still aren’t spending a ton on Latin America, neither does a lot of teams. Spending wise we’ve been more than ok the last couple years.
Mourning Guy Carbonneau...
Royals obscure player to watch in ST: Lenny DiNardo
by playingwithfire on Sep 1, 2009 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
I also defended the extension for Ron Prince, not for performance but because “he’s got to get his 4-5 years”. That blew up in my face – Prince was a disaster.
While Moore isn’t as bad as Prince was, it still has the same terrible feeling.
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
Are you saying
Dan Glass has a secret agreement with Dayton Moore that will allow them to bilk millions of dollars from David Glass once Dayton is fired?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Dayton has asked for his salary be paid to his corporation
“In Pursuit of OBP”
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
by Top Ramen on Aug 31, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Prince took our money!
under the table. God, the athletic director pisses me off sometimes.
Mourning Guy Carbonneau...
Royals obscure player to watch in ST: Lenny DiNardo
by playingwithfire on Sep 1, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
like the raiders baby
commitment to excellence
by Will McDonald on Aug 31, 2009 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Just win (75), baby!
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 5:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That's It; Bring
On the outcaste, castoff thugs now!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Aug 31, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure the Cubs would love to part with Milton Bradley
He’d go well with Guillen
might be some serious conflict
since Bradley can actuallly play
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He's also pretty good at storming the announcer's booth at Kauffman
by oc on Sep 1, 2009 5:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I can really see GMDM trading 1 year of Guoillen
for 2 years of Bradley this offseason…
BOOM! ROASTED!
if the Royals were close to contending
it wold make sense. Guillen simpl can’t play any more. Braldyh is having a down year for him, but has still managed to be slightly above average.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by Matt Klaassen on Sep 1, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm optimistic about the Royals contending in 2018 (maybe 2017 -- fingers crossed)
This decision by the Glass’s is worse than any move Moore has made. Moore is a poor GM whose methods are state of the art for 1980. While other organizations move ahead and use all of the tools of modern baseball analysis, the Royals stay firmly entrenched in mindset of prior generations. This organization will continue to wander through the desert for many more years.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Aug 31, 2009 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Does Glass even care? He sucks. Worst owner in sports.
I see no behavior from the guy that actually would indicate he has any concern for the well being of his team at all.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
He (they) care(s). They just don't make good baseball decisions.
Just like Moore.
The immoderate moderator
Glass is a fan of the game and would like to win
but his philosophy of team-building is clearly reflected by the decisions of all three GMs who have operated under him. He loves Gloadquists and hates young players – thinks you can never ever win with them. And he’s awfully certain he’s right, too.
Baseball's that swingy stick game, right?
by royalsroyalsroyals on Aug 31, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Hosmer should be ready by 2015...
we need more NY Royal around here
by Will McDonald on Aug 31, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
2015?
Is that when his glasses arrive?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 31, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
yea... they're travelling by boat from New Zealand
then there’s the overland route from California
by Will McDonald on Aug 31, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
he can borrow TPJ's when jr. gets promoted to Wilmington tomorrow
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 5:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That's a longer extension than I would have expected
But I think he makes good points about good small-market teams needing to be home-grown, and deserves to have at least some more time to allow the seeds he’s planted to bear some fruit.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Aug 31, 2009 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
which is why he's made so many trades for prospects the last three years
oh wait, he’s done the opposite
by Will McDonald on Aug 31, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's spending the currency of baseball!
(on guys like Yuni and Jacobs). Oh, and spending real currency on guys like Guillen, Farnsy and Bloomy. Yikes. And I’m not overly impressed with his “home-grown” efforts. His drafts have been pretty good, but I don’t see prospects shooting up the charts. In fact, I see many of the Royals top prospects falling down the rankings instead.
The immoderate moderator
yea...
not to be too dismissive, but there’s an element of obviousness to what he’s done, especially in the early rounds
Moose and Hosmer were certainly not inspired picks, they weren’t terrible, but they were just standard everybody had both guys ranked high, and the royals took them and signed them
if anything, glass needs as much credit as moore at this point, because dude’s basic MO appears to be just overpaying guys, which is fine and may work, but is hardly a sign of a great scouting mind
by Will McDonald on Aug 31, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
In that radio interview right after the Yuni trade
When those guys asked him about all the low-OBP signgings, he said something about how everyone knows who the good players are, who the high-OBP players are, but he can’t afford those guys. I think this was when he said he tried to get Miguel Tejada (!) to come here but couldn’t make it work.
Usually I don’t pay much attention to interviews/press conferences, but that kind of thinking does not inspire confidence.
Lumsden, Cortes, Pimentel,
Bannister, Shealy, Davies, Parraz, Paulino…
Yes, this past off-season he traded away some prospects. Are you seriously going to tell me you don’t think he’s traded for some as well? Granted, some of those he flipped in other trades, but they certainly looked like prospects when he traded for them.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
i'll give you banny and davies
except that they weren’t prospects really, and wil soon be too expensive to keep
by Will McDonald on Aug 31, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Cortes
Was a top 3 prospect last year and still has the stuff to be a solid bullpen type. Lumsden was a pretty high prospect at the time. Shealy was considered ML-ready and just blocked by Helton in 2006.
What happened to all of these guys to make them non-prospects? Well, they spent significant time in the Royals minor league system. I have serious concerns about the actual development of players in the minor leagues—is the system itself hurtin players. Is it time to call the Jirscheles, Poldbergs, et al. into question? If the system can’t succeed in developing they players they get, then Moore’s not going to make it to 2014 anyhow.
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Aug 31, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
This is what I don't get, the GMDM supporters use the "focusing on the farm" argument.
What has he done to focus on the farm system? Drafted guys that were available (and yes convinced Glass to pay them) and that’s it. He could have traded off a lot of the older guys and brought back prospects, but he hasn’t.
Win now! I guess.
He can get 4, NOT 5.
That is really baffling to me
Seems like he overvalues his own players, while misreading the market. That’s my best guess.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 31, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
twss
Sorry
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 5:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My reaction.....
NCAA Football; better than everything. That is an understatement.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Aug 31, 2009 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
The only good news
Is that GM’s don’t make a lot of money (in baseball terms) and so it is easy and affordable to buy out the remainder of a GM’s contract when you fire him. In fact, there might be a specific buy out clause which allows the Royals to buy out some years of the contract at a discount.
But the real problem is that this shows that the ownership has faith in Moore. That’s about the worst news Royals fans could get right now.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Aug 31, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yes
the real question is: Do you trust David Glass to buy out the contract if the teams continues to be a debacle? Does anyone remember how much Allard had left on his contract when Glass hired Moore?
$500,000
From 2006-2015
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 5:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wow, does this mean that Allard is going to be paid $500K per year from now until 2015?
If so, I am okay with that I guess. I like Allard much more than I like Glass, so I would rather he have the money. Plus I think Glass treated him pretty poorly those last few months.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
d'oh
Just trying tp make a joke about Baird getting paid 5k over 10 years
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 5:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think this your best post ever
This is the worst move I have seen anyone affiliated with the Royals has made. And it was the fucking owner of the team who is responsible!!!
How can anyone possibly think Moore has done a good job. His entire offseason has been a complete and utter failure. From Crisp, to Jacobs, Farny, Cruz, Bloomquist, Yuni, Ponson, Horam …. need I say more!!!
How on earth could you reward someone for that performance!
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 31, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Money Quote
"Although it has been a disappointing season," said Royals president Dan Glass, "I believe we are heading in the right direction and Dayton is an important part of the process."
If that isn’t the very definition of look the other delusion then I don’t know what is. Fuck your process Dan, it hasn’t and doesn’t work.
i love how The Process continues to be entrenched as a word/phrase
by Will McDonald on Aug 31, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Which makes trey Trey a process server?
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
by Top Ramen on Aug 31, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You would think only we'd be using it by now, but oh no
Phase 1: Assemble expensive, below average players
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: CHAMPIONSHIP!
-RoyalsRetro
by ratherfantastic on Aug 31, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
did anybody read the comments on the dutton article? most of them were credditing Moore for keeping Grienke and Soria. haha. i dont think they were in sarcasm font either. GMDM’s DONE SUCH A GREAT JOB. THE TEAM HAD NO TALENT AND ONLY HIS GUYS ARE PRODUCING FOR THE TEAM THIS YEAR!!!!!1111
My stories a lot like yours only more interesting because it involves robots!
He deserves a lot of credit for signing Soria and Greinke
Because so many people were like “whatever you do – don’t sign those guys to long-term deals!” Dayton really bucked conventional wisdom and did the right thing.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 31, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'll give him some credit for Zack
Not sure how he talked Zack into that, although Zack is a different cat. If DM had waited until this offseason, the price would have been off the charts.
No kidding
I honestly feel horrible for Zack. He’s a smart guy – I’m sure he sees what’s going on here. I’d looove to be a fly on the wall when he and Banny are talking about the team.
by awolfson on Aug 31, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'll give him credit for Soria, too
Not for realizing that Soria was worth signing to a long-term contract, but for somehow working a deal that is more favorable to the team than any contract I’ve ever seen.
“Hey, Jack, how about we pay you several million per year less than you’re worth, and a couple years from now if for some reason you’ve gotten hurt or stopped producing, we’ll just stop writing you checks. How does that sound?”
I am Billy Butler's Gold Glove.
Soria approached him of course.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 31, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed
Moore doesn’t like contract negotiations mid season. Soria only happened because he made the first move.
by kcbottom9th on Aug 31, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Response 1 (logical)
As long as the Royals are competing when I’m still alive, fuck it, it’s only a few more years of the same.
Phase 1: Assemble expensive, below average players
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: CHAMPIONSHIP!
-RoyalsRetro
by ratherfantastic on Aug 31, 2009 4:33 PM EDT reply actions
Response 2 (Over the top)
CRISIS AVERTED! HOLY MOTHER FUCKING SHIT!
Phase 1: Assemble expensive, below average players
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: CHAMPIONSHIP!
-RoyalsRetro
by ratherfantastic on Aug 31, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In all seriousness
what IS the process?
My stories a lot like yours only more interesting because it involves robots!
The Process is "an energy field created by all living things, that surrounds and penetrates living beings and binds the galaxy together."
or, alternatively, it can be explained by midichlorians.
by raefzilla on Aug 31, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Oh god...
George Lucas is running the team? That’s even worse somehow. Jose Guillen is Jar Jar? Alex Gordon is Darth Maul (looks cool, but turns out he sucks and gets sliced in half, this isn’t really my opinion on Alex, but seems to be that people are moving towards this consensus). DM is Vader, Glass is Emperor Palpatine.
by AxDxMx on Aug 31, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I'm new to this blog
I jumped over from halos heaven to read your guy’s reactions to the DM signing. After some of the things he has done this year I imagined he was on his way out already. Anyway I just thought this pic was hilarious.
NA 34
A lot of pain
Phase 1: Assemble expensive, below average players
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: CHAMPIONSHIP!
-RoyalsRetro
by ratherfantastic on Aug 31, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Moore doesn't know what midichlorians are or how they work.
But everyone knows who the Jedi are, who the high-Force talent people are, but he can’t afford those guys.
by BrRoyal on Aug 31, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
hee hee
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
love this comment
the whole “naturalizing” of The Force in the prequels was just one of the many horrible things about them
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair,
Star Wars isn’t that great, but I love the story, and the special effects look real (for the most part). Empire is awesome, and Jedi had Ewoks (bad). Guess which one wasn’t directed by Lucas. That’s right. The best one.
I'm a nerd who read about 70 Star Wars books, most of which were pretty good if not great
It would have been so good if he had just had Timothy Zahn, Aaron Alston, or Barbara Hambly write the prequels. Instead, he ignored anything that isn’t George Lucas and assumed nothing else could top it.
(I haven’t bought or read a single book since I entered the monastery, a time which coincides with episode three. The monastery does not prevent me from reading science fiction. [tear])
Simple
-Speed/defense up the middle
-Power on the corners
-Good pitching
-Develop most of your roster in the farm system
Maybe that will work, although someone needs to tell GMDM that there are position players that possess more than one of those skills at the same time.
Moore says that's his plan, but he doesn't seem to follow it too well
Speed/defense up the middle
* Callaspo, Yuni – Check / Check
Power on the corners
* Butler, Gordon, Teahen, DeJesus, Anderson – Zero 20 HR season between them
Good pitching
* Farnsworth, HoRam, Wright, Colon, etc.
Develop most of your roster in the farm system
* Blocking Kila, Aviles, and MITCH as much as possible
THE PROCESS IS WORKING
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
See ratherfantastic's signature line
Phase 1: Assemble expensive, below average players
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: CHAMPIONSHIP!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
when was the last time a GM just had his contract expire? I’m pretty sure the vast majority of GMs get fired in the middle of their contracts anyways
Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis
yeah
kind of like with coaches. Its kind of an odd lifetime contract… until you get fired or leave for a new job.
My stories a lot like yours only more interesting because it involves robots!
Incredible timing on the extension
Making a run at 100 losses with the highest payroll in club history
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
Disagree
I like his focus on building the farm system, and while this strategy has yet to bear fruit, it’s still early, and I think over time, the focus will inevitably pay dividends.
I think that’s a fine argument for why Dayton should not be fired today, but I have seen no reason why he deserves a contract extension. The farm system doesn’t even look that great today. Average at best, probably below average with the disappointing seasons of Moose and Hosmer. A small market team really needs to be in the top ten.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Exactly.
He’s been here since the 2006 draft (he took credit for Hochevar in an interview), so that’s 4 drafts he’s been a part of. Who from those 4 drafts besides Hochevar, is anywhere near the MLB level ready to contribute? I would have been happy to just let his contract expire next season. Maybe there’s a buyout clause in there if the team doesn’t finish with more than 75 wins in one of the next 2 years. I may change my tune if Bianchi (not a Moore guy) and Lough, and Parraz, and Godin, etc. are called up and contribute, but right now, the system looks barren again, with no one capable of stepping in for 2010 other than as spare parts.
I would have been happy to just let his contract expire next season.
Would anyone in KC be that upset if he had just left after 2010? I can’t believe there is a high demand for him right now. You typically only lock guys up to extensions if you are afraid they will leave. But I can’t see anyone wanting to hire Dayton for a GM job elsewhere. Its like locking up a malcontent right fielder going into his decline years who plays terrible defense and is drawing no interest to a $36 million deal. But at least no one is THAT stupid.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I agree
I like some of the things he has done with the farm system. I really do. The problem is, they are things that any major league team should be doing anyway.
exactly
if you give me five straight drafts with top 3 picks, I’m going to get some of them right. Even flipping a coin will yield better players than Moore’s “analysis”
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 31, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, there it is.
Here is to hoping Dayton Moore gets better at his job.
He’ll be the Royals GM for at least the forseeable future. It is probably best to just accept that reality and hope he’s better qualities grow and he learns from his mistakes.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
why should we accept reality
When the people running the team refuse to do so?
(angry, depressed winky face)
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 5:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
the way he talks when the team looks like its going to loss 100
makes me wonder what he’ll be like when (if) we do compete for the division. Maybe he’ll be like Jerry jones and run on the field when we win and scurry away if we lose
My stories a lot like yours only more interesting because it involves robots!
I’ll remember all you naysayers and won’t invite you to the parade we have on the Plaza!
-GMDM.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Someone forgot to tell Dayton they don't have parades for .500 teams
by AxDxMx on Aug 31, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
i love the cool calm look on his face
great picture
by Will McDonald on Aug 31, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I prefer the one with the sports jacket slung over his shoulder
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
so
what would you expect from Dayton if he were working to save his job next year?
Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis
berroa's first year. TPJ's first year. ect.ect.ect
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
TPJ's first year wasn't good though
on the TPJ scale….good
on a normal scale….still below avg.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Aug 31, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and this is a GREAT move!
(I just want to see you all argue more.)
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Now GMDM can focus on which three guys get called up in September
It’s tricky. Can’t offend Guillen, need to get Jacobs more ABs, want to see what Colon can do, watch the timing for Gordon…
by hippdoghipp on Aug 31, 2009 4:57 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
They already said there wouldn't be many
Gordon, Guillen, and a few others. I would expect Kila to come sit the bench again, maybe Disco Hayes. They really need to watch who they put on the 40 man though. Wouldn’t want to lose someone in the rule 5 draft.
I think there are quite a few
Decent prospects who are Rule V eligible this year, I think I saw a list a while back, so they certainly need to keep space free.
Although really, anyone you would want to bring up is already on there (Kila, Rosa etc. Outside of that you Have Hayes possibly, maybe Aldridge for the hell of it.
next years guillens last year right?
so maybe he’ll wait next year and start the buying spree after ’10 season. Or maybe glass will just want to save money
My stories a lot like yours only more interesting because it involves robots!
i'd rather have guillen through 2014 than dayton
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 5:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Therein lies the conundrum
as no one else but Moore would sign Guillen even next year, let alone through 2014.
It is contract year
So Guillen will play up and look kind of passable, and Moore will sign him to a 3 year extension.
The Yuni trade alone should have cost him his job.
I was at Shea for the Felix-Slam!
Personal M's record: 5-4.
A recipe for suckitude
I think Moore is a very average GM. … All in all, there are better GM’s, and there are worse GM’s. It’d be nice if Kansas City would have one of the best, but I’m a fan, and I try not to let myself get too frustrated with the whole process. I’m okay rooting for .500 seasons.
An average GM with average overall resources would be expected to produce average teams. If an average GM has less below average resources, that a prescription for sustained suckitude.
You can root for .500 seasons, but given your premises a .500 season is what you should expect once or twice a decade when everything goes right.
Are our resources even that much below average
i think I read our payroll is within ten million of Colorado, San Francisco, and St. Louis, and more than Tampa Bay and Texas – all of whom are in a pennant run.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 31, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Assuming that Dayton learned his negotiating skills from his boss
I’ll go ahead and assume that Moore has 2 or 3 “GM option” years at the end of his deal.
Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed
by Top Ramen on Aug 31, 2009 5:31 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Good news,
Ryan Freel got released. Again. So Dayton can bring him back for another round.
I’m Freelin’ good about this contract extension!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is Farny With
Him?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Aug 31, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
No way Dayton Moore is an average GM
He’s in the bottom tier. In no particular order:
-GMDM
-Omar Minaya
-Ned Colletti (Don’t let the record fool you. He’s collected overrated and overpaid vets and swapped out perfectly good young talent for it.)
-Brian Sabean
-Ed Wade
-Walt Jocketty
-Jim Hendry
Billy Beane?
I guess he would be better than Moore in terms of acquiring young talent, but not much else.
NA 34
Yeah, Beane really lucked into those four division titles,
five playoff appearances, and eight straight years of finishing with at least 87 wins.
I think Hendry and Jocketty are way better than DM
by Will McDonald on Aug 31, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The new Pirates GM is looking pretty good right now.
They traded everyone away for young talent and brought AAA players… STILL they have a better record than we do.
I hate Coletti and Sabean
But I’d take both in a heartbeat over DM. Sabean has actually redeemed himself quite a bit the last few years reviving an old team and having some really great drafts the last few years.
DM is the worst on that list, except for Minaya.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 31, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know if this is a defense of GMDM or an inditement (SP)
But 810 was saying that in an interview w/ one of their staff, GMDM said the roster was put together the way it was this year in an attempt to maximize the window of having Meche AND Greinke at the top of the rotation, as he didn’t think they would be able to get Greinke signed.
In other words, it was a Win-Now Roster in GMDM’s eyes that was put together at the last minute because they had hoped to get him signed going into last year, but then it looked like they would not be able to sign him, so this ‘direction’ for ’09 popped up in the Winter & they ran with it, obviously blindly…and it was done so erroneously, not only because of the results on the field, but b/c we DID get Greinke signed…
BOOM! ROASTED!
So obviously, after you lock up Greinke
You then trade away legitimate prospects for Yuniesky Betancourt. That makes perfect sense
Waiting for April.
sounds like an excuse made up to try and cover your mistakes
"The life of a (Royals) fan must be lived forward but can only be understood backward" -- Kierkegaard (more or less)
It's not an excuse.
Excuses are made when you have ulterior motives. In other words, you have to know what you’re doing in the first place to make excuses for it.
your "win now"
was trading for Mike Jacobs and not signing Adam Dunn? Your win now was signing Farns over keeping Nunez or Ram?
Shouldn’t win now have been sign CC and teixeira? ;)
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
Agree with those above
who said why now? Curious move, I do think the jury’s still out on Moore but not sure why the urgency to sign him long-term right now.
Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Aug 31, 2009 5:54 PM EDT reply actions
maybe the royals are buying low
lock up a superstar like moore after a down season
"The life of a (Royals) fan must be lived forward but can only be understood backward" -- Kierkegaard (more or less)
You can't buy much lower than this
I’m a penny stock though. Glass could have had me for $50,000 a year.
one possible bright side
with a contract in hand, maybe GMDM won’t feel pressured to win now. trying to build the farm system while simultaneously trying to win now was one of the major flaws with The Process.
"The life of a (Royals) fan must be lived forward but can only be understood backward" -- Kierkegaard (more or less)
Fangraphs loves this move
Dave Cameron on the Moore extension:
This is just a bizarre decision. Moore should have been closer to losing his job than getting more security, given some of the decisions he’s made over the last few years and how poor the Royals are yet again. A significant handful of his decisions are utterly indefensible – the Jose Guillen and Kyle Farnsworth signings along with the trades for Mike Jacobs and Yuniesky Betancourt have been well covered, but quite simply, a GM should not get free passes for making four terrible decisions that close together. Especially given the Royals budget constraints, Moore simply couldn’t afford to waste the money he had available, yet he did.
You don’t have to be a total stathead to be a good GM, but Moore has done nothing to prove that he’s good enough at traditional player evaluation to also be ignorant of the statistical tools available that he’s actively ignoring. That the Royals willingly signed up for more of his management style should be enough to cause Kansas City fans to weep.
I hate it when commentators sugar coat it.
Remember, thought that Dave Cameron and everyone at FanGraphs
hate the Royals and always give the most negative take
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah - how silly was it when Dave said that under current leadership ...
… the Royals were one of the poorest run organizations in baseball. Intelligent Royals fans, of course, immediately took Dave to task for his unfounded bias against the Royals. I bet those fans are feeling pretty smug right now … [/sarcasm]
by Steve Nelson on Aug 31, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I would be pretty fucking pissed if I were a Royal fan
The low to middle budget teams that are competitive year after year are the ones that have great FO personnel. It sucks that you guys have to put up with this shitty GM on top of the fact that you can’t compete financially with other teams in the league.
NA 34
The stadium is nice though!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 31, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Hm....well i guess there's still room on the
Texas Rangers’ bandwagon, right?
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Aug 31, 2009 7:57 PM EDT reply actions
Kinsler!!!!
Phase 1: Assemble expensive, below average players
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: CHAMPIONSHIP!
-RoyalsRetro
by ratherfantastic on Aug 31, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope this move inspires us all
to achieve our own personal Farnsworth or Betancourt, an act that’s so bizarre that the ordinary people around us are unsure if they’re in the presence of genius.
by 2X2L on Aug 31, 2009 8:07 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Reading all of this negativity has been exhausting...
I may have to mostly stop visiting Royals Review, just like I’ve mostly stopped watching Royals games.
HEY GUYS, YOUR SARCASTIC USE OF ‘’THE PROCESS’’ AND ’’GMDM DRAFTED [INSERT BAIRD DRAFT PICK] IS NOT FUNNY AND IT IS MOST CERTAINLY IS NOT WITTY.
Talk about kicking a dead horse. Over. And over. And over. And over. And over. And over again.
Fuck... I wish there was an edit button
So I don’t have to appear so bitter AND stupid..
so you stopped visiting here and watching the royals
I think dayton is more to blame than RR
by Will McDonald on Aug 31, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
For my lack of watching the Royals, yes. Despite not watching the games (excluding Greinke day and still checking the box scores), I still actively follow the Royals online. But now… at least around here, I can’t stand the barrage of TRUST THE PROCESS and GOOD THING DAYTON DRAFTED GREINKE.
OH HEY I GET IT, THE PROCESS SUCKS AND HE DIDNT DRAFT HIM LOL
We'll stop mentioning it, when they stop mentioning it.
What’s so great about this move though? This should be ridiculed. It’s hard to feel anything but mind-numbing despair and hopelessness with this. Who here is excited about this? Is there even an average fan that likes this move? Seriously, another 100 loss Royals team is going to get the guy that constructed it locked up til 2014? Oh great, I’ve just been condemned to another futile decade. HURRAY!
I’m at least as bitter as you are, but I’ve channelled my anger into the stupid crap we do here. Like posting about The Process, or making fun of Dayton, or something stupid that Trey says. What else is there to do? This team is horrible, the only joy is Greinke, and even that gets destroyed on days he gives up 1 run and loses! The Royals have barely played replacement level baseball since 18-11, and that’s with the GREATEST PITCHING PERFORMANCE since Pedro 1999!! Imagine them without Greinke!
You may not like the snark, but the analysis is spot on
Dayton Moore has shown himself to be a poor GM. There has been some good. There has been much more bad. And his analytical and evaluative processes are horrendous. In short, he’s been bad and we have no reason to believe we’ll see better in the future. This is honesty. There’s no reason to sugarcoat it or pretend things are ok.
The immoderate moderator
We are going to have a blizzard on Labor Day.
I agree 100 per cent with NYRoyal. This is the biggest waste of money and time that the Royals have ever done. It is criminal that the Glass family can’t see their mistake. Or, are their egos so big that they can’t admit it.
This fucking sucks
Time to think about getting a new team…David Glass is giving the fans the middle finger while grabbing his package with the other hand. Screw you Glass,
yeah I'm there
I lived in SF a couple of years ago and I visited my brother when he stayed in the Bay Area after graduating from Stanford 10 years ago.
I adopted the Giants as my bandwagon team then, and will now. Look at the players Sabean acquired – Lincecum, Bumgarner, Posey.
They even picked up Penny who I wanted the Royals to sing in FA instead of fucking Farny, Jacobs…damn I can’t’ even think anymore
I’m out peace
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 31, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
You used to be a Mets fan, changed to the Royals and and are now jumping ship again to the Giants?
GobbleforCyoung- true fan.
No I'm a Mets fan still
No bandwagon here. I rooted for teams I lived around for awhile as well
Why do I like the Royals. I remember them as a kid, always liked the color of the uniforms, the nice history and the classic players. I like to pull for the underdog.. i remember how pathetic the team has been for years and it’s a nice story to root for. But now since there is no end in site I’m forced to reconsider
Its pretty say when the two teams you root for have, hands down, the two worst GM’s in baseball!
by GobbleforCyoung on Sep 1, 2009 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions
yup
bonus points for a new saying that won’t irritate those poor souls forced to read this free site when we make fun of The Process Abcess™!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Moore is not only the worst GM in baseball
he’s one of the stupidest people on earth. He makes GW look like a genius
by GobbleforCyoung on Aug 31, 2009 8:54 PM EDT reply actions
Perfect way to follow up Greinke's 1 hitter yesterday.
Fuck this team. I thought MAYBE the unanimated corpse of David Glass would be upset that the one time he spends a decent amount of money on this team, it is to sign a heap of fierce smelling garbage. Guess not.
Dayton Moore signs shitty players for massive amounts of money and there is no hope in sight in the farms system. We can officially no longer blame a “bare cupboard” for our hideous minors.
God, I haven’t felt like this since November 2, 2004. I wish we could impeach Moore.
- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes
Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis
by BHWick on Aug 31, 2009 9:00 PM EDT reply actions 10 recs
As soon as I saw that I thought, "Szymborski"
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's the secret of The Process™
It doesn’t exist.
Think about what Dayton implied today. He came here in 2006 with the goal to build a winning team through the farm system. Then, when he saw the Central would be weak this year, he changed it. All of a sudden it was about winning now, never mind the last two years of work. And now that it didn’t work, hey, it’s back to building through the farm system again.
This is my biggest problem with Dayton — he has always fundamentally dishonest with us. Who knows what he really believes.
The process exists
It’s about old school tools-based analysis with no other analytical methodology. It’s also about trying to build the farm system and win now at the same time, which is a good way of doing both in a really half-assed way. There is a process and it is fatally flawed.
The immoderate moderator
fatally....we are going to lose for another couple of years.
Even without injuries… this team would not have been in the playoff hunt.
I agree
Dayton is a scout’s scout, and the devotion to tools is certainly real. It’s the second part of what you said that I have trouble with. Is winning now but also building the farm system even a valid process? Very few moves in baseball are made to win now and build the farm system. It seems like that’s just a built-in excuse for the next transaction: trade away a good player? we’re building! trade away a prospect? we’re winning now! I suppose another thing he has in common with GWB is that The Process has as many different meanings as The Bush Doctrine.
Listen, I don’t think there’s any way Dayton Moore sat down in 2006 and even considered the possibility of contending in three years. No way. We were coming off two 100-loss seasons with a barren farm system and the Tigers were looking like a future dynasty. And if you grant me that, it follows that he probably started thinking about it, when, last September, at the earliest? He basically copped to it.
It’s very troubling to me that he assures us that he’s had a plan all along (when the evidence already shows that he hasn’t), and then a month later he says the opposite.
I’ll admit, I took the Win Now bait, especially after 18-11. But that just makes what Dayton’s doing that much worse. I know I’m gullible, and it’s a fact that we as a culture are really good at deluding ourselves. Now I feel like Dayton Moore’s got me on the end of his fishhook.
i do think you are on to something
i think dayton fell a little too in love with some of his early moves, then suddenly felt like he/they could contend way before that was realistic
by Will McDonald on Aug 31, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
That damn September of 2008
Made him a believer. If only we had tanked that month.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Aug 31, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Alex Gordon raked last September
as with most things, then, his is all Alex Gordon’s fault
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah good point
He took several risks in the offseason. He went all in and he had a lesser hand in Jacobs/Crisp/Bloomquist/Farny/Davies..etc, etc. He fucked up, but the worst part is he WON"T ADMIT IT. He used scapegoats everywhere and even became defensive with the media (YOU ALL DON"T UNDERSTAND BASEBALL!!!!)
He needs to own up. I would honestly get in this guys face if I ever saw him. There is not one characteristic worse in a man than arrogance in my opinion, and to think its based off a supposed skill of putting together a bullpen. He used that competitive advantage (creating a bullpen) to hedge against his offseason moves. It completely blew up in his face.
Giving him an extension is just insanity – the Royals are the 2nd worst team in baseball.
by GobbleforCyoung on Sep 1, 2009 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions
The sad thing is
He went “all in” with pocket deuces.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Not a great strategy
Especially when the other teams called and flipped over AKo, 78s, JTo, and pocket 6s.
At least we aren't bitter
1977 & 1989 Royals - We shoulda won it all dammit
by Trey_has_no_pulse on Aug 31, 2009 9:08 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
BTW, Moore exercised his option. So we could have had him for 2 years and evaluated him then. Instead of giving him 3 more seasons.
And now.. the official theme song of the Dayton Moore hitting philosophy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEvPwWjRyg8
Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis
Or is this his strategy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_moia-oVI
There is none!! (The oldest trick in the book…)
by Royals Nation on Sep 1, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The old line is true.
“A FOOL AND HIS MONEY ARE EASILY PARTED.”
This is an owner that doesn’t have a clue that his franchise is in deep trouble. He has just doomed the team and the fans to several more years of losing. If an when we see the supposed process work we are going to have teams just like the 2009 version. God help us because this owner would buy holy water from the Devil.
So what does this mean for Mike Arbuckle?
Does he quietly leave this offseason because his arrival almost had the feel of someone waiting to take Dayton’s job?
Everyone is jumping all over Glass about this
But how do we know that Moore didn’t sign himself to this extension? It fits his pattern perfectly — giving an overpriced multi-year deal to someone who is underperforming and in decline.
by Black and Gold on Aug 31, 2009 9:55 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Will, you'd better save some venting for 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013....
….You’re going to need it.
Will SABR-savvy Royals fans still even exist by 2012 or will they all have abandoned ship permanently? If that’s even possible?
I considered jumping for a brief moment today
After I heard. Then I realized I could never do it. I certainly won’t be devoting oodles of time to the Royals in the near future, but for better or worse, I’m stuck with ’em.
Me too.
God help me, I’m watching the Royals suck on TV tonight even.
I think it’s time we all faced facts and just admit that we have a problem..
My name is Aaron, and I’m a Royal-aholic.
Like Springer or Maury
It’s pure trash….pure amateur garbage….but you just can’t turn your head away. It’s a freakshow that amazingly keeps taking bizarre turns. Unpredictability and creativity are consistencies in RoyalLand….you’ll never know what horrifying, petrifying thing will happen next.
by Royals Nation on Sep 1, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Did they release the numbers?
Maybe the Glass family is paying him $1/year while they try to sell the team. Reaching for a positive.
I'ld make a joke about Dayton Moore drafting DDJ
but then some guy I’ve never heard of who doesn’t watch the Royals anymore might not lurk here at Royals Review anymore!
OH THE HUMANITY
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
OH MAN!
YOU GOT ME!
I’ll be damned if this isn’t the wittiest group of individuals I’ve ever come across!
It's cool to have a different point of view
But it’s rather worthless to take personal shots instead of providing arguments.
He only shows up to yell about the negativity here,
and my post is considered a “personal shot”?
I was merely pointing out that he was adding to the negativity, while not really adding to anything positive.
I’ve provided arguments in plenty of other posts, awolfson. This is/was a thread to cry in. This is therapy. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to read it.
Dayton Moore invented the draft.
Fact!
BOOM ROASTED!!
NCAA Football; better than everything. That is an understatement.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Sep 1, 2009 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
NCAA Football; better than everything. That is an understatement.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Sep 1, 2009 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions
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