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Around SBN: Please, Someone Make Bob Sapp Stop Already

In a nutshell, teams like KC cant win traditionally, need to think outside the box, but are afraid to because of their pride of being a "professional" team. interspersed with Bill James quotes and PAUL BYRD

over 2 years ago Finished_pug_tiny RoyalPug 25 comments 1 recs  | 

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And yet … that’s what the Royals (and other small market teams) do. They play the game conventionally. They fall back on old ideas. They hire old school managers and preach old school baseball values and scout players on the same 20-80 scale that players have been scouted for 50 years. Bill pulls out his spiral notebook — he always brings a spiral notebook to games — and on a page he draws two ladders, one on top of the other. The higher ladder is the “professional” ladder. The lower ladder he calls the “amateur” ladder. He then draws a picture of someone dangling from the bottom rung of the professional ladder. That, he says, is the Kansas City Royals.

“It’s so important for them to be considered professional,” he says, “that they are unwilling to try anything that might make people think they’re amateurish.”

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 31, 2009 4:38 PM EDT reply actions  

The joke is on the Royals

As we all think that they are amateurish.

by AxDxMx on Aug 31, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is a great piece.

What bothers me about my first evaluation of GMDM is that I thought, I hoped, that the team HAD hired someone who did think unconventionally. Since he had come out of the KC org, I thought he understood that you had to do things different with a small-market, small-budget team. There’s still time for him to adjust—-at the MLB level at least—-and I don’t want him to change at the minor league level. But I had hoped that Rowdy Hardy, Disco Hayes, etc. had given us signs of management that would think differently. Anyway, I think GMDM will adjust, but it hasn’t been 100 percent obvious on the surface. Perhaps he’ll read the JoPo article and do a midterm GM self-evaluation. – TL

by timlacy on Aug 31, 2009 5:26 PM EDT reply actions  

"unconventionally"

sort of a good point, but in a weird way, way off. The problem with the Royals is not that they are too conventional. Maybe in 1980 or something. But right now they are unconventional, in the same way using a telegraph would be unconventional.

The Royals aren’t in trouble so much because they are doing everythign the same way everyone else is and thus not getting ahead, it’s that they are being unconventional and need to catch up.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 6:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Do you mean...

…via things like OBP for position players and using defensive metrics (just at all, not better)? You could make an argument that OBP is mainline these days. Using defensive metrics effectively as an org would be unconventional. But I think the point in JoPo’s piece was James commenting on a guy like Willie B.—-professional, good work ethic, decent in the field, avg. with the bat, avg. by OBP. Willie’s a professional, but a bench player on most teams getting over-exposed with us.

Plus, I wouldn’t say we’re being unconventional as much as being selectively professional: upgrading the farm well, bringing in part-timers for full-time roles, upgrading the pitching well, apparently having no position player philosophy. You know, mixed up stuff like that. – TL

by timlacy on Aug 31, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe

one different point is that I think it’s the opposite of professional to be not just ignorant, but to willfully ignore the advanced research that is directly relevant to your job. It’s pretty clear the Royals do that.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't rec your post enough Gopherballs.

The Royals are convinced Willie has been a huge success, not just a guy holding a spot for someone better in the future.

by hunter s. royal on Aug 31, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Damn, my fault.

Replied without reading Gopherballs.

He can get 4, NOT 5.

by Warden11 on Aug 31, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey, I'm just trying to...

…relay the point from JoPo’s article/convo with James.

by timlacy on Aug 31, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

But well above average

In grit

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 31, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Evidence please?
upgrading the farm well

He can get 4, NOT 5.

by Warden11 on Aug 31, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Weak Proof

Exhibit A: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/110669-royals-farm-system-very-bright
Exhibit B: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2009/267224.html (older, before this year’s draft)
Exhibit C: http://kiddude123.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/8614434/15597254 (quite a few prospects listed here who have not been used)

There’s got to be more than this out there, but I’m not a subscriber to any major bball info services.

by timlacy on Aug 31, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, pretty weak proof.

January 2009, November 2008, and April 2008.

He can get 4, NOT 5.

by Warden11 on Aug 31, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, in my defense, they don't usually...

…grade farms until the current season is over. So you can’t just judge by date. I think our draft was rated pretty well too, yes? …I don’t think it’s really that hard to defend the farm under Dayton. The MLB team? Indefensible, for the most part. The farm? We can give a little credit where it’s due. – TL

by timlacy on Aug 31, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Once again, I'm asking for what?

What does he get credit for? Please name something…he’s been here 3 years now. No fruit. If he had been trading players for prospects and was ready to call up some guys next year, I’d agree with you. He’s living (possibly dying) by the draft. Not to mention, according to many people the draft is more Piccolo.

He can get 4, NOT 5.

by Warden11 on Aug 31, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wilmington looks okay

I’ll give DM credit for David Lough, Mike Montgomery, Dan Duffy and Tim Melville. Moose and Hosmer have been pretty big disappointments, but they still have upside. Other than that, I don’t see any impact players in our system. And even the guys I mention look more like average MLB regulars than superstars. I’d be really surprised if any of our players make BA’s Top 100 prospect list this winter. That’s pretty damning considering he’s had two drafts where he has drafted in the top five (three if he wants to count 2006, which at times he has!)

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 31, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oops

I’d be surprised if any of our prospects made the Top 50 list. I think Montgomery, Moose, and/or Hosmer have a chance to be near the bottom of the Top 100. Still, that’s less than impressive.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 31, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Duffy too

I think Jim Callis is they guy at BA who loves Duffy and could see him becoming better than a third-starter type.

by Gopherballs on Sep 1, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

the thing about the minor league guys...

is that he got those guys simply by paying for them. He hasnt had a late rounder come up and shock everyone. He’s paying for top talent and getting top talent…not a ton of skill in that if you ask me.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Sep 1, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

David Lough?

unless your going to go the “oooooo…11th round isn’t late round” on me. which would be lame.

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Sep 3, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

But Willie isn't these things.
decent in the field, avg. with the bat, avg. by OBP

.254 avg

.297 obp

-.6 WAR

He may be a professional and a decent guy to have on the bench, but not an average player.

He can get 4, NOT 5.

by Warden11 on Aug 31, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

anyone below replacement level doesn't even deserve to be on the bench

if that’s his true talent level

“at” replacement level, he deserves to play only if there are no other options.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 31, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Taking another shot at Glass

Interesting article by Poz. Want to point out that the prior owner, Kauffman, actually did think outside the box, and was unafraid to do things that might draw ridicule from his peers. Younger posters may not be aware of the Royals Academy, which was Kaufmann’s idea. It was widely panned at the time – but ultimately produced several major league players, including one of the only 2 guys in franchise history to have his number retired.

The naysayers were pretty much proven wrong, as this idea has taken root in Latin America, where many organizations now run developmental academies for potential players.

So, Mr. Glass – where is your innovative idea? What have you thought up that might help the Royals compete better?

That’s what I thought.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Sep 1, 2009 1:54 PM EDT reply actions  

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