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Around SBN: The End Of Sabanball: Details, Barbarians, And Precision

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Say wha?
Manager Trey Hillman, who wholeheartedly endorsed the trade, said the critics have every right to speak out, that he “loves” statistics and uses them all the time, and that he respects the “sabrematicians” who rely on statistics to judge players.

But he added: “They don’t take into consideration the human elements, the work ethic provided by different coaches and the atmospheres of those players that have not supposedly risen to the levels that they’ve been projected to [reach].”

Everything I’ve read about Betancourt’s work ethic is that it is terrible. The stats and scouts seems to agree – he sucks.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 4, 2009 10:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Oh

I guess he’s talking about the work ethic of the coaches. That will make the difference. Huh?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 4, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'll attempt to translate Trey

Isn’t that just a long way of saying, “We think a change of scnery may help him.”

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Aug 4, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its also interesting

That yes, they’ve had injuries, and no doubt that has hurt the offense and defense. But the pitching has been virtually injury-free save for a 2-3 week stint by Soria on the DL and a DL stint by Meche.

But even the pitching has been disappointing. Have they not noticed that? We are ninth in earned runs allowed, twelfth in runs allowed overall. If you take out Greinke, our team ERA is 5.02. How do injuries explain that?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 4, 2009 10:06 AM EDT reply actions  

To be fair, if you take out Ponson and Chen as starters, the numbers get a hell of a lot better.

And they aren’t considered solutions. The Royals currently have 4 starters that they can count on. Hopefully Davies come back throwing smoke, and the rotation becomes all it can be.

by AxDxMx on Aug 4, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't that a further indictment of Dayton?

His best option for the #4 and #5 spots in the rotation were Sidney Ponson and Horacio Ramirez, followed by Bruce Chen? Its not like injuries forced us to scramble and find Ponson – this was the team he broke camp with!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 4, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think so. Forcing some of your guys to actually compete for their spots is beneficial

I’d like to think of it as a wake up call to Davies, Hochevar, and Banny. Had Ponson actually been average, they may have stayed in AAA longer. Anyways, I think the indictment has to be on the hitting/fielding and bullpen. The rotation is a bright spot.

by AxDxMx on Aug 4, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

The rotation looks pretty good, even ifyou take out Zack

and then Ponson and Chen’s starts, and the Meche’s starts when he was laboring, and also Davies’ starts when he shouldn’t have started, and Hochevar’s starts when the pitch calling was off.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 4, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

tree-mendous

not to mention how guys improve during the season if they perform well

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 4, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dayton will sign Mike Vick

His speed rating one year I believe was a ridiculous 99.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 4, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Will Vick ever throw a ball in that scenario

or will he just run around the bases until he falls over from exhaustion?

by AxDxMx on Aug 4, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

we should check if gathright was into dogs

this space reserved for something embarrassing nyroyal will have me say

by marbotty on Aug 4, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, it depends on how his lateral movement rates out

Marriage is a great institution, for those that like being in institutions.

by fats on Aug 4, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

A whole season of excuses..retold

The article is bs. It’s just a PR attempt to smooth things over with fans. They assume that if we hear the same excuses often enough, we will give them more credit. The fact is that we (the Royals) were doomed from the beginning of the season. Only career-best seasons from every player could have given us a shot at contending. It was always unrealistic to hope for anything above .500 from this team. DM is fighting for his job – otherwise he wouldn’t have resorted to such desperate attempts to save the season and pass all the blame for the lousy record on injuries.

by rph on Aug 4, 2009 10:30 AM EDT reply actions  

Wow. Where do you even start?

Here? re: Yuni

“He is good now but he has the potential to be very, very good. It’s just a matter if we can get it out of him.”

or here:

Defensively, Moore has liked what he’s seen from Betancourt.

“He’s been exceptional — and he’s going to continue to get better,” Moore said of Betancourt’s defense during a visit to Baltimore last week. “And offensively, he’s a career .280 hitter. He’ll be fine. Coming to a new team, he’s putting a lot of pressure on himself. He’s been a big upgrade for us, really.

here, looked promising? (Cruz yes, the others- no)

The refurbishing effort looked promising when Kyle Farnsworth, Juan Cruz, Jamey Wright and Doug Waechter were signed to get to All-Star closer Joakim Soria.

and last one:

“I’ve said this for 15 years: You’re really never going to know the ramification of a trade for 12 to 24 months. In this case, it’s going to be 30 months. We’ve got Yuniesky for the equivalent of 2 1/2 seasons and evaluate then,” said Hillman when Betancourt arrived just after the All-Star break.

“The people that jump out there and prejudge it are not looking at the big picture.”

Yes, it is way too early to say Yuni will never improve. I’m just glad we have 2 1/2 seasons to evaluate, that won’t be painful.

He can get 4, NOT 5.

by Warden11 on Aug 4, 2009 10:32 AM EDT reply actions  

wow -

its blockquote city in here…

I've got crazy flipper fingers!

by labbadabba on Aug 4, 2009 10:33 AM EDT reply actions  

its blockquote city in here…

yes, it is

this space reserved for something embarrassing nyroyal will have me say

by marbotty on Aug 4, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh God... It gets worse

Moore took the extra step of checking with ex-Seattle players, both with Kansas City and elsewhere, about Betancourt before pulling the trigger on the deal. “And one thing I always say is you can’t fool the players, and the players always know,” Moore said. What he got was an overwhelming endorsement from “the Raul Ibanezes of the world and the players on our team,” as well as coaches and managers and scouts.

Oh great, now he’s getting advice on obtaining players, from the players. That will end well. I remember the teams I played on when I was young. Most of the dads that drafted kids, drafted their son’s friends who they considered to be the most talented. I was drafted by the team that didn’t do that. We were a laughingstock the first year as we were an expansion team. After that, we dominated. It was great. Good luck Dayton.

“I respect the heck out of a GM who’ll go to a player and ask him, ‘What do you know about this guy?’ instead of thinking he knows everything and then just goes and does it,” said Bloomquist, a Betancourt teammate at Seattle. “But [Moore] decided to take our opinion. Not to say that was the overriding factor, but he asked. My opinion will always stay the same of him — he’s tremendously talented.”

More of the same, but this especially disturbs me:

My opinion will always stay the same of him — he’s tremendously talented."

Really Bloomy? Even if he proves that he sucks?

But results of a trade, even in this can’t-wait-for-immediate-gratification age, are often a long time in coming.
“I’ve said this for 15 years: You’re really never going to know the ramification of a trade for 12 to 24 months. In this case, it’s going to be 30 months. We’ve got Yuniesky for the equivalent of 2 1/2 seasons and evaluate then,” said Hillman when Betancourt arrived just after the All-Star break. “The people that jump out there and prejudge it are not looking at the big picture.”

Oh come on, we can’t judge the trade til his playing time here is completed? Are you friggin serious??!?!? 30 months!?!? Screw you Hillman. That is just pure arrogance. At least now we know why the Ross Gload’s of the world get extensions from Dayton. It’s because he couldn’t judge them yet, as their time with the team had not run out. This is just mind-bogglingly stupid.

by AxDxMx on Aug 4, 2009 10:34 AM EDT reply actions  

"My opinion will always stay the same"

That sums up the Dayton Moore era.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 4, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wouldn't Want To

Be a flipflopper, would we?

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Aug 4, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

My favorite quotes are about Blomquist
So, with center fielder Coco Crisp down and out with two shoulder surgeries, general manager Dayton Moore began casting about for a possible fix there. Mitch Maier could run down flies, but didn’t hit. Blomquist went to center after Betancourt’s arrival and did well enough, but again, he’s good — not dazzling. Ryan Freel was obtained and got a look.

“Good — not dazzling” = -11.7 UZR/150 in CF (-5.6 in the field at all positions, total)

Willie Bloomquist was a reliable stand-in, but not an everyday shortstop.

“reliable” = -13.8 UZR/150

overall: "Teahen and Bloomquist were pretty consistent "

Blomquist is consistently what? -5.9 hitting, -5.6 fielding, an overall WAR of -0.1.

Yes, it was a dumb contract, but Willie being Willie didn’t kill the team. But you have to lve them going out of their way to try to make him into a a bright spot. It’s as damning as the “Betancourt has been a good defender” stuff — they aren’t just ignoring it, they’re blatantly saying that a bad player is good in some misguided attempt to convince people that they made a smart move.

But at least they aren’t making excuses!

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 4, 2009 11:44 AM EDT reply actions  

Consistency

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 4, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

We should do a despair.com poster contest on the Royals. the consistency poster may win though.

Dayton against Rany:

Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.

by Jeff Zimmerman on Aug 4, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

For Trey and Dayton

Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.

by Jeff Zimmerman on Aug 4, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Image

Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.

by Jeff Zimmerman on Aug 4, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

You Could Just

Make one big block quote out of the entire article and just say “WTF?”.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Aug 4, 2009 12:40 PM EDT reply actions  

I found this one inteesting
We try to draft and sign speed players, because you can’t develop them

A cynic might read it as saying that we draft speed and defense, but can’t develop them afterwards…

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Aug 4, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Since You Know

That’s not what he meant, it would have to be gibberish.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Aug 4, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh yes - +1,000

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Aug 4, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Outstanding

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 4, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

and rec'd

Darth GM does not like your tone.

soon to change name to, "The Not So Curious Case of Benjamin Bratt"

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Aug 4, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

YES!

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 4, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Almost perfect.

Just need to put Poz’s or Rany picture photshopped on the choking guy

Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.

by Jeff Zimmerman on Aug 4, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I tried to put Kila in there, but it came out looking pretty bad

And I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a picture of Rany. Poz’s face would probably fit nicely though. I just need the weird angle.

by AxDxMx on Aug 4, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually found those too as I was curious to see what Rany actually looked like

But, none of the Rany ones were side profile that were usable. Plus, Rany just isn’t that recognizable. I went with the bottom Poz, and I’m not sure how to blend the colors on the neck, so if anyone wants to fix it, go right ahead as I did a fairly crappy job..

On a sidenote, I think I prefer Grand Moff Tarkin in the picture, but couldn’t resist putting Hillman in. I couldn’t find a glorious sideshot of the ’stache where the KC would face the correct direction, so I had to settle for HillGoat.

by AxDxMx on Aug 4, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oh, and please refer to it as "The Process™" from now on

For those of you who don’t know how to make the ™ symbol. Hold down the Alt button while hitting 0153, release ALT and Boom! It shows up.

Moore has said it enough, it needs a trademark!

by AxDxMx on Aug 4, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or just put the

“TM” in parens ()™

I was thinking Dick Kaegel should be Tarkin

maybe RR as the guy getting choked?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 4, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

What is there to say about this article? Spin City…

Depressing.

by cookierojas73 on Aug 4, 2009 2:03 PM EDT reply actions  

He's making Allard look better every day

Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis

by BHWick on Aug 4, 2009 3:44 PM EDT reply actions  

wow

Yeah, I wonder how much cash DM slipped Dickie to write that puff piece.

Hopes fade once again from blue to red. Go New Chiefs!!

by kabrink on Aug 5, 2009 12:29 AM EDT reply actions  

The whole article makes me sick

But besides all the “spinning” I think the worst part about it is, they’re pointing of the fingers to guys being hurt only makes matters worse. This dilusional idea that if everyone was healthy, they’d be winning the division, is what’s scary.
And what’s scary about it is, well kids, expect the SAME EXACT team in 2010 that you just saw tremendously suck ass in 2009.

What’s the quote? Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Ugh.

by Royal from Queens on Aug 5, 2009 1:34 AM EDT reply actions  

Well after the 8th castle, you do actually save the princess right?

So about 1 in 8 years we can expect to contend with this approach? I think we used those up in the 70s and 80s and now we have to wait 100 before sniffing the playoffs again.

Abandon all hope, ye who enter this godforsaken land.

by AxDxMx on Aug 5, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

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