Greg Schaum has found out from a viable source that 6 or 7 teams have told people close to Luke Hochevar that he has been tipping his pitches since the beginning of his rookie season. He is twitching his wrist; this is allowing teams to tell which pitches are coming. Luke Hochevar is looking forward to fixing this problem.
2 months ago
Royals Nation
33 comments
3 recs |
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quick explanation
I want to make this clear…so it does not get twisted. Luke Hochevar did not tell me he was tipping pitches…I found out during the game from a very good baseball person (not with the Royals) that personally told me
The Royals and Luke very recently were made aware of this…I met up with Luke in the clubhouse after the game and we spent about 10 or 15 minutes discussing this
He feels that his thoughts on why he was not having success even when he has had great stuff was vindicated. The telling points for him were Aybar and Abreu’s ab’s last start
Typically, pitchers find out they have been tipping pitches when they go to a new organization and they are told by their new team. But, this is not to different than the Garza situation in Tampa a couple of seasons ago,
It is a wrist tip (he moves his wrist a certain way and hitters see it)…at least it is believed to be….they are studying everything to figure it out…But, that s what they have focused on
The other team’s won’t tell you what it is, you have to figure that out on your own
You have to understand, that this is not your dad’s big leagues….a lot of these guys share agents or are friends and eventually people talk
this will only help Luke in the long run
"our deepest fears are not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fears is that we are powerful beyong measure."
by gashousegang on Sep 10, 2009 1:47 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Greg -- Can you expand on the information?
When exactly he found out so i can do a before and after comparison?
Also which pitch(es) he was tipping (i.e. only his sinker)?
Thanks.
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Sep 10, 2009 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you could figure that out on your own
as I think Greg was saying that he has been told he is tipping, but not how or when, other than they believe it is a wrist movement.
I’m wondering if you could compare pitches that have similar speed and movement from Pitch F/X and compare them to Hochevar’s. I would think the most telling stat would be LD%. If Hochevar differs significantly on a pitch or pitches, it would be pretty obvious.
by AxDxMx on Sep 10, 2009 3:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's nice to know that Luke doesn't suck
He would show some great ability, and then revert. So either some teams didn’t know he tipped, or his stuff was that good that some nights it didn’t matter and he beat them anyways.
by AxDxMx on Sep 10, 2009 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as I tweeted
the Reds and Rangers must feel like the stupidest teams in the league after this
I’m glad the Royals crack staff was on top of this
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by devil_fingers on Sep 10, 2009 8:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I remember when Tom Gordon
went through the same thing in KC when he was a young, struggling pitcher with electric stuff…
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Sep 10, 2009 9:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's (sort of) good news
It’s bad that he’s tipping pitches, but it’s a better explanation for his recent downfall than just “he caught the suck that’s been going around the dugout lately”
On a related note, I wonder if teams have a guy who gets paid to review tapes of upcoming opponent pitchers to look for things like this. Sort of an advance video scout.
Unless I'm wrong...
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by Top Ramen on Sep 10, 2009 9:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
or if teams even watch their own pitchers pitch to see if they are doing something like that
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by devil_fingers on Sep 10, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One would think teams would try to take advantage of all the information available to them...
…one would think.
by ddw on Sep 10, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the scoreboard at the K actually displays the Royals information database.
If it’s not on the board at the K, the Royals organization doesn’t track it.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
by Warden11 on Sep 10, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
It's probably tough to pick up much of anything off of a TV broadcast
since the camera is so far away and usually behind the pitcher. You can pick up a lot more stuff by sitting in the crowd ….at least that’s my personal experience.
by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on Sep 10, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is frustrated
Jeff Zimmerman-
I tried calling you and it looks like your number has changed…e-mail me at gschaum@entercom.com and I will give you my number. I would like to see what you could put together and I will certainly share it with Luke if it is as good as the stuff you usually do. He is very frustrated and feels he has basically wasted 2 years. He knew big league hitters were good, but not this good…he has complete confidence in his stuff and could not believe that the stuff he had was hit hard by some and missed by others….one number he threw at me was the difference in offensive numbers betweent the teams he thinks were unaware and the ones that were…he has always been tough on lefties and he says that stat differential is eye popping…we talked about the exact numbers and it really is an amazing statistical difference…
"our deepest fears are not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fears is that we are powerful beyong measure."
by gashousegang on Sep 10, 2009 12:54 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Cool
but this is depressing, isn’t it? An a gifted employee of a major business worth hundreds of millions of dollars is having to get advice from a friend of a radio host?
I applaud Greg and Jeff and Luke. But this is extremely embarassing for the Royals. What exactly is it that all their scouts, coaches, and mystery sabermetricians do?

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by devil_fingers on Sep 10, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Provide the information needed to show
That Mike Jacobs, Yuniesky Betancourt, Kyle Farnsworth and Willie Bloomquist are awesome pickups.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Sep 10, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe those guys...
…have been tipping their swings? ;) – TL
by timlacy on Sep 10, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greg -- email sent
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Sep 10, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
D-F remember, we all part of the process..... you're either with us or without us. Got it.
now I need to go to the bathroom and throwup.
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Sep 10, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He feels like he's wasted 2 years? wow.
So how long will it take to correct this and get the ‘new’ Luke Hochevar!?
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by 306008 on Sep 10, 2009 1:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I predict he will have a good year when his contract is up
What’s that 2012?
I would be absolutely shocked to see a Scott Boras client do that
by sterlingice on Sep 10, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
devil fingers
I think we have to hope that they do have this taken care of…But, I said this more out of respect for what Jeff does…I think he could be a viable reference for this situation. Plus, I think the Royals should be willing to look at any and everything to help their investment out. I know Luke would at least take a look at it and form his opinion…it can’t hurt to try
"our deepest fears are not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fears is that we are powerful beyong measure."
by gashousegang on Sep 10, 2009 2:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
But it’s also sad that it has taken this long to figure something like this out. Check his Pitch f/x numbers against pitchers who throw similar pitches/ stuff and check the results. If Hochevar’s numbers are bad compared to similar pitchers, then something is wrong (especially if the Pitch f/x numbers are comparable). Pitches/stuff works if it is good, if it isn’t working something else is wrong. I’ve just assumed he has good days and bad days, but I’m not working for a muti-million dollar organization.
Why am I not shocked it has taken two years for this be found out?
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
by Warden11 on Sep 10, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so stole this from the KC scout webpage
April 7 to June 16 (132 pitch outing): 4-5, 3.31 ERA, 67 K, 31 BB, 2 HR, 84.1 IP
June 17 – present: 2-5, 8.46 ERA, 28 K, 27 BB, 15 HR, 44.2 IP, several missed starts, complaints of arm feeling tired/funny and back tightness, now shut down for rest of the season..
It’s a pretty telling sign that he was cursed by that start.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
by 306008 on Sep 10, 2009 6:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Two words:
Joe Nathan.
Check out his horrific starts in late April and early May, 2000. Yup, tipping pitches. Good news: he got better.
by 2X2L on Sep 10, 2009 7:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
IMO
This is a chink in the armor of Bob McClure more than anyone else.
I’d also be curious to find out if he had a consistent catcher…if Olivo caught him 90% of his starts & didn’t catch anything, it is a black mark against him (like he needs any more)
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Sep 10, 2009 8:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
2 teams for sure
The A’s and Red Sox
"our deepest fears are not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fears is that we are powerful beyong measure."
by gashousegang on Sep 22, 2009 8:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I guess we'll find out if it's fixed then starting Wednesday night
when Hochevar outpitches Beckett.
by AxDxMx on Sep 23, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought they said he wouldn't be able to work on it until after the season
did I miss that?
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by devil_fingers on Sep 23, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I probably missed it
I did hear in his last start he told Greinke that he was just going to forget everything and go out and pitch as everything had gotten too complicated. I think he told Joel that in his postgame interview. So you’re probably correct, but I hope he’s done something, or the Red Sox are gonna light him up.
by AxDxMx on Sep 23, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure Olivo can cover with his awesome gamecalling
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Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by devil_fingers on Sep 23, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Red Sox sure don't own him like the A's do:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=hochelu01&year=Career&t=p#oppon
Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.
by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Sep 23, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs














