What will it take?
Obviously most people are very down on DM right now...however I would venture to guess that everybody (even d_f and will) could reach a point where their opinion of him would change. This post is NOT meant to cheerlead for DM or lay out why he is a good or bad GM...I have been fairly consistent in stating my position on him.
So, what I wanted to throw out there is what in my mind DM MUST do in order to redeem himself this offseason. In turn, I'd like to hear from others, especially those who are most down on him, on what DM can/must do in your eyes to turn things around. No snark please, give me your honest assessment of what it would take for him to redeem himself in your eyes. They may be specific moves or more of a noticable philosophical shift that you can point to, but I'd like to hear them.
Here are mine:
1. Fire Trey Hillman and/or Dave Owen. Despite what he has said, I still hold out some hope that DM will evaluate Trey's two seasons here and determine that he is not the man for the job. Maybe it doesn't happen until early next season, but I think it needs to happen soon. Ironically, one could argue that by not firing Hillman, he is at least indirectly admitting that he hasn't given Trey the bullets he needs to be successful. Canning Owen would be an acknowledgement that he's been a horrible 3rd base coach and has contributed mightily to our historically bad baserunning.
2. Put his money where his mouth is when it comes to OBP. This could take a number of forms, from non-tendering Jacobs/bringing up Kaaihue, making Betancourt a backup, installing Pena as the primary catcher, making more trades to bring in OBP guys, whatever.
3. Show a real commitment to upgrading the defense. Some of this is going to be hard to do given the coexisting need to upgrade OBP, but this needs to happen as well. The biggest and most obvious places to do this are in RF, SS and C. However, given current roster restraints, improving OBP and defense is going to be tough. If you put B. Pena at C, he presumably solves a big part of the offense/OBP side of the equation but I sense that his defense is really suspect. Move Guillen to DH? That presumably improves the defense but I don't know if it improves our on-base problem. My preference for DH would be a platoon of Guillen and Kaaihue.
4. Upgrade the bullpen. I think this could actually be accomplished fairly easily and cheaply with some internal options such as Rosa and others. If it doesn't work, at least you're not paying them a ton of money. Guys like Jamey Wright, John Bale, and Roman Colon for the most part need to be gone.
5. A farm system AT LEAST in the top 10 per BA. We were 11th per BA going into 2009. I need to see continued improvement. This is really out of DM's hands at this point, but signing Aaron Crow and some savvy trades could help. Really, with the spending like a drunken sailor, I would expect a top-5 farm system very very soon.
6. Release Jose Guillen. I have really shied away from naming specific moves/players because there's no way for me to know the entire universe of players and what could be had in trade. But admitting a mistake by releasing the $12 million man I think would send a huge positive message. Maybe the fact that DM has gotten a contract extension would make it easier to do this, I don't know. I do know if it happened it would be a positive sign that DM is re-evaluating the way he does things.
So, there's a lot here, and although I didn't really specifically list it out, the implication from the above is that DM is going to have to change the way he looks at things. I don't know that all of these things need to happen, but most of them do. If not, then you'll be able to add me to the list of those ready to move on.
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Comments
Acquire more good players than bad players
That would help his reputation and the team.
The immoderate moderator
Know HOW to acquire good players
I don’t mind a Juan Cruz signing blowing up. He was a quality relief pitcher with a recent history of achievement, signed for not an incredibly large amount. He blew up—that can happen, but that doesn’t change that it was still a good signing at the time it was made.
Its The Process that brought in Jacobs, Farnsworth and Betancourt that has real fans teetering on the edge. These are players who can demonstrably be shown to have no business on a baseball team seeking improvement, but whose quantifiable flaws are disregarded because of some flashy scouting tools—“Oooh, look at Jacobs’ power,” “Wow, Farnsworth can throw really hard!” “Hey, Yuni…Yuni…well, scouts liked Yuni in 2006!”
Dayton, please, please, PLEASE learn something from YOUR failure in 2009. Please.
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Sep 12, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
"savvy trades"
Therein lies the one of the problems. Has Dayton ever made one?
Hopes fade once again from blue to red. Go New Chiefs!!
Callaspo too
Moore has done some good things. He’s just done too many bad things.
The immoderate moderator
Great idea for a post, HRTC
Without reading other responses first, here are some short ideas.
A couple qualifications: While the PR/press stuff pisses me off, it’s really just the cherry on top of the -- sundae. I’d still be angry if they did it and were succeeding, but then again, they wouldn’t need to if they were suceeding. I’m also not going to deal with the Hillman issue, since it’s just another symptom of the deeper organizational problem that traces directly back to Moore.
i won’t cover everything.
Personally, while I think that statistical approaches are indispensable and its clear that the Royals are one of the most stastically backwards teams in the league (I’d say the most backwards, but you never know), but frankly, I don’t care if they’re explicitly using hte stuff or not — many teams that aren’t as oriented to modern approaches get good results by getting to the same point by different means, and that’s a whole ’nother discussion.
Honestly, I’m just going to cover this next offseason. And that’s not enough. Moore actualy did well in his first offseason (Meche, Soria, etc.), and that turned out to be some sort of deviation… and it’s going to take more than one offseason of competence (and it’s gong to take more than competence to turn this situation around) to win me over. So this just wins him a “stay.” And this is just a sampling, I can’t hit every issue.
The main thing Moore needs to realize is that this team is not going to be “in it.” It requires a genuie rebuild. If he’d started doing this in 2006 when he came aboard, the team might actually, just not (maybe 2009, more likely 2010) being be a dark horse contender for the AL Central crown. Now, even if he does everything “right” starting right now, I’d say 2012 is the earliest.
In other words, he needs to start leveraging his assets now. And that means trading players. And he can’t be a “fan” about it. Fans sometimes think that “blowing a team up” means trading everyone who is bad. Um, well, okay, but most of the other teams know that Cruz, Farnsworth, Jacobs, Guillen, Betancourt, etc. suck, too. That’s not going to rebuild the team.
GoBabies!! and others have covered this in other posts. What fans and, more importantly, Dayton, need to realize is that the Royals are at a stage when no one is off the table in principle. Now, in reality, some guys are off the table. But, yes, if the Royals were offered (whatever huge package) for Zack Greinke, they should do it, no questions asked. Zack is one of the best, if not the best, pitcher in baseball and signed to a great deal. Guess what? In 2012, the earliest year I can imagine the Royals contending given everything going “right,” he’ll be in the last year of his contract. IN practice, of course, given his skill, age, and contract, I can’t think of any team that could given the Royals back in trade enough for Greinke that their own team wouldn’t be seriously disabled so as to make the trade a zero-sum game. The Royals should definitely jump on a offer of Longoria, Jennings, and Brignac for Grienke (and as I’ve said before, given the contract, Longoria would be more than enough). The Rays would be crazy to offer that, though.
But the point is that Dayton need to look at who is going to be around when the team is ready to contend. But anyone should be available to be leveraged for young, team-controlled talent. I’m not here to quibble over who it should or shouldn’t be — we can argue about what would or wouldn’t be a proper offer for Greinke, Soria, Butler, or Gordon (very different players, just “core” exampes) all day. That isn’t the point. The point is that Moore can win me over a bit by showing he recognizes where the team is at.
This doesn’t mean give them away. Butler obvious is coming into his own. Gordon, not so much – maybe wait and see if his value can rise or if he’s a keeper (I sitll think he’ll be a very good player, but that’s a whole different issue). I don’t know, that’ s not the point. Personally, I’ve been among those who think that, if soria is just a closer at this point, with his great contract, he’s the one who coudl be moved for several good young players. It doesn’t matter what positions they play. The Royals just need to be accumulating value at this point.
Away from the core — there are other realms of players. Whether you like or hate DDJ, he needs to be gone (and probably should have been before the deadlnie this seeason). Not because he sucks. In fact, because he’s good and his contract (and prime) don’t extend to when the team might contend. The longer the Royals wait, the less value he has. they aren’t even going to get much back now, but like GoBabies and others have said — he need to bring back something for when the Royals are good. He probably has the most value of the players over 27 on the Royals.
More than Meche? Yes, actually, without getting the spreadsheet out, probably. Meche was a great value for the Royals. But going intot he last two years of his contract, he’s less likely to produce a “surplus” like DDJ does. Meche needs to be gone to anyone who will take his salary and offer a prospect in return. It’s too bad. I like Gil, but he’s not going to be around when the Royals are ready to win.
Banny’s an iffy proposition. His value probably wn’t ever be higher… well, except he got hurt. Shop him, although he’s cheap.
Other than that, it’s a crapfest. Cruz has been worse than expected. Farnsworth has been better than expected. Old, replacable guys. GMDM needs to ship these guys out to the first team that will take any of their salaries.
Guillen and Jacobs: they might still help the team int he short term as a platoon DH combo, but what’s the point? Jacobs should be shopped briefly to see if there’s someone as dumb as Dayton Moore out there, then be non-tendered. Guillen should be shopped to anyone who will taken any portion of his salary. If not, DFA. It’s a waste of time for the Royals. right-handed platoon DHs, some of whom could even play defense somewhere, are a dime a dozen. It’s a sunk cost Frankly, the Guillen/Jacobs “decision” is a total no-brainer. either one of them coming back is about as close to the point of no return as you can get — a sign Moore doesn’t get it.
Sure, Kila might suck, but there’ s no risk there for 2010.
They waited too long on Teahen. Trade him for whatever you can get. Should have been gone at the deadline. People who said last season that he should be a non-tender were wrong. Now, he might be too expensive… I still don’t think he should be non-tendered, but a C prospect would be a good return given the Royals situation.
Blomquist: gone to the first team willing to pick up at least .015 of his salary.
Oh, one more big one: realize that the biggest single hole on the team is at SS. The team can live with Robinson TEjeda as the setup man, or Kyle Davies as #5 SP, or MITCH as CF, or Brayan Pena as C. But Betancourt’s upside is bench player. It’s a massive problem. This is a bigger no-brainer than Jacobs/Guillen, actually. Thinking that Betancourt has filled that hole and doing nothing about it for next season should be grounds for dismissal for gross incompetence. I’m not joking. It’s that obvious to everything. If he can’t figure that out, he can’t run a team. Many of these things are just “signs” that he may or may not get it. This one’s a dealbreaker, ladies.
And so on. This is too long an incoherent as it is. The point is that Moore needs to 1) Understand the team’s situation. They aren’t "A CF and a SP away,’ to say the least. [really, they’re a GM away — sorry, couldn’t resist the truth]. 2) realize that the only thing to do is the Pirates plan.
it’s late. I’m not going to proofread. This isn’t a plan. Just a wish list. And Dayton needs to do most of it to get some of my good will back for one season.
Who’s got the over/under?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Sep 12, 2009 11:46 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Sadly, I agree
about trading off players. I would hate to see Greinke go, since he’s my favorite, but this team has multiple holes.
I don’t agree so much on Guillen just b/c they might as well see if they can get a useful DH out of him (and if not then cut him after 40-50 games or so) but bringing Jacobs back would be the clincher for me.
I have no idea how many of these things will or won’t happen because I honestly don’t know if DM’s going to make some philosophical changes or not…I hope the fact that he signed his extension means that he can look long-term and do more long-term value moves.
Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Sep 13, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Not happening. It's just not, if we all know how awful he has been with his contract, don't you think other teams know?
I don’t agree so much on Guillen just b/c they might as well see if they can get a useful DH out of him (and if not then cut him after 40-50 games or so)
That’s GMDM style of thinking.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
And your solution is...
what? Great analysis, keep it coming.
Kansas City Royals - rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic since 1994.
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Sep 13, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Waive him.
His production doesn’t justify a spot on the roster. Find someone that is cheap and also might be around for 2011 and on.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
and to throw a name out there,
place Kila in as your full time DH/1B combo with Butler. He’s not likely to be an All-Star but he’s cheap and having a guy there that costs $400,000 allows the organization to continue shopping for guys.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Just curious
Would you accept the HUGE pitching prospect bonanza the Red Sox were to have rumored to have offered for Halladay or King Felix if they offered it for Zack?
Michael Bowden, Clay Buchholz, Justin Masterson, Daniel Bard, Felix Doubrant and Nick Hagadone
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Sep 14, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd for a good topic -- warning, response is long
To start with, I’ve been somewhat down on Moore through most of his tenure. It wasn’t so much him though, it was the “In Dayton We Trust” mantra that was spreading like wildfire for the first year or so. Efforts to show how TPJs rookie season was a fluke, or how Gathright for Howell was a terrible mistake at the time were met by calls that DM was infallible. Because of that, I’ve been more critical of his moves than I otherwise would have.
So, with that I’m starting with your 6 and adding a few of my own:
1. Firing Hillman/Owen — I wouldn’t mind moving Owen off of 3rd*, but don’t really want to see Hillman fired. Not that Hillman is good at his job, but firing him now would be an effort by Moore to scapegoat Hillman for his own terrible roster construction. This roster has so many issues that a new manager isn’t going to help much.
*Why are Royals fans constantly subjected to managers/coaches/GMs who “need time to learn on the job”? Can’t we manage to find a single guy who knows how to do the job when hired? (i.e. Manager/player etiquette, Stealing w/ Ross Gload and John Buck is a bad idea, how to be a 3rd base coach, 25-man roster management)
2. Increase OBP. Agree completely. However, in order to do this, he’d need to start acquiring guys who are actually good at taking walks, as opposed to his current preferred approach of grabbing guys whose OBPs are very BA heavy.
3. Upgrade defense. Agree, but only to an extent. Fix the gaping hole in RF (either through Teahen or someone else cheaper). Upgrade SS (won’t happen). 2B is fine (some sort of a Callaspo/Aviles tandem should be ok). Bloomquist and Josh Anderson should not see time in the outfield. Ever.
4. Fix the bullpen. Agree — there are enough young, cheap guys on the farm that he could plug a lot of them in and have a capable pen. The problem though is that Farnsworth and Cruz aren’t going anywhere. Judging by the recent comments on Jamey Wright, he might be back sucking up innings as well. The ease at upgrading this unit may also be affected by Moore’s trading strategy this offseason — if he continues to sell off young bullpen-ready arms for fielders, he may not have the depth needed to properly fix this unit.
5. Farm System. It needs to be spitting out players every year — the fact that we didn’t have a single player make their ML debut until several days into September is awful. The part that scares me though is that they seemingly don’t trust “The Process” anymore. Rather than continuing to pick up the “best” high school talent, they’ve supposedly switched gears and are focusing more on college players. And when the players are ready (Aviles, Kila, Rosa, etc.) actually give them a shot — don’t force them to be held back by sub-replacement level talent.
6. Release JoGui. Agree — sell him to whoever will pick up the most of his salary, even if it’s only 50K.
My Own:
1. Figure out roster construction. We should never have to witness a team carry 3 catchers a DH and a 13 man bullpen. That’s ridiculous. Or a team that carries both TPJ and Luis Hernandez.
2. Stop badmouthing the good players on the team. On one of the worst offensive teams in Royals history, don’t badmouth the “league-average” 1B for the inability to turn a 3-6-3 double play. Likewise, don’t blame losses on Callaspo for his porous defense when the offense only manages to score 2 runs.
3. Drop the PR campaign. I can live with Arrogant GM / Good Team or Lovable Loser GM / Bad team but I can’t stand Arrogant GM / Terrible Team.
4. Improve at budgeting. Just because he couldn’t afford a new PS3 when it came out (Hunter) doesn’t mean he needed to spend 2/3 as much on a refurbished Nintendo 64 (Guillen).
5. Probably the most controversial — trade a fan favorite (one of Greinke, Soria, Meche, Gordon, Butler). The fan base in general would be upset, but pick which ever one gives the best cost/benefit ratio and make a deal. This should provide more “league average” players in return to fix the team, but also show that Moore is willing to to what’s best of the ML team long-term rather than continually applying patches to a fatally flawed team to appease the general fanbase.
I’ve become even “Moore” down on the team lately since I read posts from someone who recently got to interview Mike Arbuckle. His philosophy sounded extremely similar to Dayton’s, meaning the likelihood of the changes required happening are pretty slim.
The conclusion I keep coming to though is: If Moore does (eventually) do the things required to earn back the fans trust, he’s not going to do it overnight — it’s going to take several more years of “learning” on the job. Which means it would be easier and probably faster to fire him now and hire someone who would follow the “better” process now.
Unless I'm wrong...
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by Top Ramen on Sep 14, 2009 1:05 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd for this line alone
4. Improve at budgeting. Just because he couldn’t afford a new PS3 when it came out (Hunter) doesn’t mean he needed to spend 2/3 as much on a refurbished Nintendo 64 (Guillen).
except that Hunter is a PS2 in a PS3 box
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Sep 14, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
what DM can/must do in your eyes to turn things around.
Resign.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Of course, for that to happen he’s going to have to get caught doing something extremely embarrassing, because as long as the choice is in his hands he’s going to remain dedicated to the cause of proving he was right all along.
Maybe he’ll agree to tear up his contract with the Royals if he gets a better offer from another organization? Hey Rockies, you need somebody to replace O’Dowd yet? We’ve got a guy they’ll love to bits in Littleton.
More questions than answers - regulars
1. Why keep Jose Guillen? Which has declined faster – his skills or his body? Even a no pop guy like Maier or Anderson should save some runs in the field.
2. Why would Jacobs still be on the roster with Kila having a full AAA season? They are the same player except that Kila has shown the ability to take a walk and should get a chance for 10% of the salary.
3. Which catcher is gone? Has to be Buck and maybe Olivo if he is a type B, right? Is the Royals incredible amount of wild pitches a measure of the pitching or the catching?
4. Will Aviles be available as a utility infielder? I like the bench of Bloomquist and Aviles if Betancourt and Callaspo are the starters.
5. Will a healthy, full season of Alex Gordon help the offense? Perhaps his stint in Omaha will humble him enough to learn in the big leagues.
6. What are the chances that Teahen and/or DDJ will be traded? Little or none even though moving them can’t hurt the team – KC is the 3rd worse team in baseball.
7. Will Callaspo and Betancourt work hard enough in the off season to improve as major leaguers? Callaspo did well at bat in his first season but fielding, not so much. He can improve – Betancourt, too. Will they do it?
8. Would it be conceivable that KC can find a hidden gem in the minor league FA pool? They are out there – Garrett Jones, Nelson Cruz, Ryan Ludwick come to mind.
Slash some payroll, while you give the fans what they want, opening day construction
1. Outfield of Mitch, DDJ, Teahen, 4th outfielder of the day (Costa, Lewbanski, Parraz)
2. Infield/DH of Butler, Bert, Yuni, Gordon, Kila, Bloomquist, placeholder for Aviles(Guillen)
3. Catchers Pena and backup catcher of the day
4. Starters Zack, Banny, Hooch, Tejeda, Davies
5. Relievers Soria, the PrOfeSsOr, Cruz, Wright, Rosa, Disco, Rowdy Hardy (long reliever to placate Devil Fingers)
Gone from Payroll – Meche, Yabuta, Mahay, Buck, and Olivo (26 million) some of that will be eaten up from pay raises, but about 20 million saved for next years FA class and/or drafts, and lots of playres sure to be or that are crowd favorites! Also, this raises to about 48 or so million that would come off the books in two years before pay raises.
Gives us lovable losers for next year, yet a chance to win in 2010. Other possible moves, trade DDJ , and we get bring up two forth outfielders, (three if you count Mitch)!
and of course and Soria if the right deal(s) are there.
Moves I would want not do, trade Teahen, trade Grienke. I would not want to trade Teahen, after all if I have to see Yuni play, then some other teamwill trot out a really bad third baseman, and you can’t have mine so there.
I think Grinke will stay with the team for his whole career if we don’t trade him, he is just too valuable to trade, unless the Yankees would trade for like 100 million in cash over the next three years.
Go Royals!
He needs to admit he fucked up and made mistakes
I’m not going to complain about the moves because they were very questionable at the time but there was a chance Farnsworth, Crisp and Jacobs could have had good years. But they all failed and when this happens the GM needs to take responsibility.
Dayton Moore hasn’t. And thats why I hate the fucking man. And right now I hate the Royals for rewarding him for being a piece of shit.
Until this team makes a few solid baseball decisions they are extremely difficult to root for. There is very little likely to be done on the trade front because Dayton Moore cannot take advantage of another GMs stupidity like other GM’s do to him.
We need quality bullpen pitchers. Guillen needs to DH and Teahen an Dejesus need to play every single day in the outfield. Butler and Callaspo need to play ever single day in the infield. Gordon and Hochevar need to step up (this isn’t Dayton’s fault)
Meche needs to become a good pitcher again. Tejeda sounds like an interesting option in the back end of the rotation. What the fuck is up with Bannister? Hopefully he was just hurt. It might be time to roll the dice and go with Soria in the rotation and Davies in the pen.
by GobbleforCyoung on Sep 15, 2009 8:46 PM EDT reply actions
Bare minimum start would be
Do NOT offer contracts to John Bale or Mike Jacobs next year. That would at least be an indication that DM recognizes that they’re not good players having bad years but are actually poor players.
by swing and a miss on Sep 16, 2009 6:18 AM EDT reply actions
One comment about Hillman
The players haven’t mailed in September under him like they did each year under Tony Pena Sr.
The funny thing is that the September surges in 2008 and 2009
have coincided with better players being on the roster. Instead of watching Gload hit cleanup last year, Shealy was mashing.
This year instead of watching Farnsworth, injured Mahay, and Jamey Wright pitch, Hughes, Marte, and Rosa have picked up the slack. Also, Tejeda is outperforming random #5 SP (Chen, Ponson, HoRam)
Unless I'm wrong...
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Don't forget how well him and Mac have coached Zack lately.
Clearly he was being selfish through July and on his own page. Trey corrected that.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Now he just has to work on the other 5 months of the season
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Sep 16, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
He is! Hillman worked on April this year, and will pick a new one next year!
So next year we can look forward to a good April, September, and one other month!
Go Royals!

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