Defense: Reason #259 Why Greinke Is Awesome

by James Kannengieser on Sep 19, 2009 11:17 AM EDT Comment 29 comments

A quick introduction. I am a:

Mets fan, bored/annoyed by my favorite team.
Royals Review lurker.
Zack Greinke fanboy.

With the Mets' season in the crapper, I have increasingly turned to MLB.tv to watch some of the great pitchers do their thing (Greinke, Tim Lincecum, Justin Verlander). It's a significant upgrade over watching Pat Misch, Bobby Parnell or Tim Redding. Greinke is fun to watch and awesome at pitching. I applaud the Cy Young Award (MVP?) campaign going on at RR and elsewhere. He's the clear cut Cy winner and I wanted to provide one more reason why: his defense, as measured by John Dewan's +/- system. The 2 components factoring how many runs a pitcher is worth defensively are how he has performed defending batted balls and at preventing stolen bases. Including defense, here are the adjusted WAR for the consensus top 5 candidates, starting with an average of WAR per Fangraphs and per Statcorner:

Pitcher	WAR Before	Defense	WAR After
Greinke	8.9	+5	9.4
Verlander	6.6	+1	6.7
Halladay	6.5	-2	6.3
Hernandez	6.2	0	6.2
Sabathia	5.1	+1	5.2

The difference is relatively small but Greinke is tied for 3rd as best defensive pitcher in the AL, per the +/- metric. Just another area where he dominates. It is also worth noting that Mark Buehrle is at +10. Pretty amazing that a pitcher's defense could be worth a full win.

Apologies if this has been covered here already - I'm a lurker but can't say I've read every thread all the way through.

8 recs | Comment 29 comments

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When Greinke is out there

he’s the best defender in the Royals’ infield. One hopes for all varieties of comebackers — except the kind he “fielded” off the bat of Miguel Cabrera (and still, awesomely, got the out).

by 2X2L on Sep 19, 2009 11:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

welcome, good post

Give that Dayton and Omar seem to be long-lost intellectual twins, I feel a real kinship with Mets fans

BTW, I keep hearing that the Mets are sick of jose reyes. Maybe they should trade hom for another SS who was once valued more highly than billy butler or alex gordon

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Sep 19, 2009 12:35 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

And who has

So i hear from a highly thought of up and coming GM, outstanding lateral range. He’s seen him play. He knows

by kcbottom9th on Sep 19, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great post, rec'd

Mark Buerhle should probably have several Gold Gloves by now based on defensive stats but in an anti-chubby society like the fraternity of baseball coaches and managers, he hasn’t gotten much love. i’m guessing Justin Verlander’s +1 is based solely on his stolen bases prevented, since the guy is definitely not a good fielder. Greinke’s just so good at everything, power, control, holds runners, fields well, handles the bat decently for a pitcher, and has the poise to deal with whatever cluster**** the Royals commit behind him (learned from years of experience to be sure). He’s the number one complete package pitcher in baseball.

by swing and a miss on Sep 19, 2009 1:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Correct about Verlander

He’s -2 fielding, +3 stolen bases.

by James Kannengieser on Sep 19, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Does the system penalize for balks?

Verlander has 4, which seems like a lot considering the vast majority of pitchers have zero. What about wild pitches? Granted, catchers have a lot to do with that too, but pitchers probably deserve a slight penalty on defense for that.

Another point for Greinke, he only has five wild pitches, which is a small number considering that Olivo catches him. Bannister has 12, Davies 10, Hochevar 9, Meche 7, and they all have way fewer innings pitched.

by swing and a miss on Sep 19, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

greinke just keeps getting more and more awesome

sorta like the opposite of Jennifer’s Body

by royalsreview on Sep 19, 2009 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Did you see that?

Was it entertaining?

by 2X2L on Sep 19, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I refuse to think it could be terrible

At the very least, you get to look at Megan Fox for almost 2 hours. That’s worth the price of admission.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Sep 19, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I saw a clip on Conan of her starting to make out with another girl from it

I’m pretty sure the movie is completely awful, and while I think she’s hot, I don’t get the overreaction to her hotness.

It is nice to know that people like her have insecurities as well, as she said she gets really nervous about speaking in public. She also plugged the Captain’s Feast at Red Lobster and their cheddar biscuits which I found amusing because I’m pretty sure it wasn’t paid, and she seems like the anti-Red Lobster type.

by AxDxMx on Sep 19, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

With the Mets’ season in the crapper, I have increasingly turned to MLB.tv to watch some of the great pitchers do their thing (Greinke, Tim Lincecum, Justin Verlander). It’s a significant upgrade over watching Pat Misch, Bobby Parnell or Tim Redding.

Meanwhile, just as James Kannengieser offered this gift to Royals Review, Tim Redding has 1-hit that Nationals through 6. Voters: clearly, supporting Greinke for MVP has excellent karmic results!

by 2X2L on Sep 19, 2009 2:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Of course, Redding coughed up the tying run in the 7th, which illustrates so very clearly that you have to carry the message out to the people. Choir: let’s rehearse the offertory anthem one more time.

by 2X2L on Sep 19, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

James, are you out there preaching it on the streets of Flushing? because the Mets just rallied, with Jeff Frenchvitalorgan driving in the go-ahead run.

by 2X2L on Sep 19, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Get on the #7 to Times Square

and take the message from there to ABC, NBC, CBS, and the Old Gray Lady. Don’t reply, just go. The Nationals have something going and your bullpen is in.

by 2X2L on Sep 19, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that worked, one inning to go :)

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Sep 19, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, that skirmish was repulsed

but vigilance is ever warranted.

by 2X2L on Sep 19, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You see that final score, fans of slumping contenders?

I’m looking at you Detroit. Colorado, you are by no means out of the woods. I think you know your assignment. Get on it.

by 2X2L on Sep 19, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I took it to News 12

Local Long Island news station. I think its signal might reach over the Long Island Sound to Connecticut.

by James Kannengieser on Sep 19, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There you go; sufficient for staving off Nationals. Nice work.

You’ve also provided us with a rough idea of the scale we’re working on when dealing with bigger games with more at stake. For games with postseason implications, I think we’re looking at renting a blimp for flyovers of nationally televised games. Minimum.

by 2X2L on Sep 19, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs