Many of you pointed out to me that one of the big reasons that Trey Hillman left Greinke in after...

Many of you pointed out to me that one of the big reasons that Trey Hillman left Greinke in after taking a shot off the elbow was so that he would be eligible for the win. Greinke's already the AL Cy Young favorite even with "just" 14 wins, so 13 wouldn't look that different. The logic for leaving him in is short-sighted, in that the award does nothing aside from offering the Royals some bright spot in an otherwise dark season. Greinke threw a short pen session on Saturday, and while there was still some bruising on the joint, there doesn't appear to be any real damage or reason to keep him from making his next scheduled start tomorrow against the Red Sox. With three more scheduled starts, Greinke will be bumping up against the 230-inning mark, one that always seemed to be an issue for another Royal, Kevin Appier. That Appier shows up high on Greinke's PECOTA comparables list should make some Royals fans nod, and others shudder.

Will Carroll's Under The Knife column at BP, "Milestone Madness?"

about 1 month ago 2X2L 16 comments 0 recs |

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Meh

Sample size. Just because one guy that is your comp had some injury problems (and not THAT many injury problems. Really only two years in KC did he miss significant time) doesn’t mean anything. Contra all the guys who pitch a lot of innings that don’t get hurt.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t monitor his workload, but 230 IP isn’t absurd, and I didn’t think Trey leaving Zack in was egregious. Zack has such an easy fluid delivery (while Ape was very herky jerky and violent), I would guess he can handle it better than others.

And Will Carroll is almost always wrong, so I actually feel better about Zack’s chances now.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 22, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

So True

And Will Carroll is almost always wrong, so I actually feel better about Zack’s chances now.

Also, make sure you don’t take any fantasy advice from him: http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/league-view/baseball/toutmixed/standings

Jeff Zimmerman - Protecting the world from RBI's and Wins from my mom's guest house.

by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Sep 22, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

it’s mostly about scolding Trey for pointlessly leaving Greinke in the game in Detroit. But that was five days ago, his bullpen session went fine, and I’m over it.

I liked this part, though, which is why I created the Fanshot:

Greinke’s… the AL Cy Young favorite

by 2X2L on Sep 22, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly.

while Ape was very herky jerky and violent

I don’t see many physical similarities.

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Sep 22, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed - Carroll had no idea what he's talking about

Appier and Zack are very different pitchers, both mechanically and in terms of their approach. I’d also hazard a bet that Zack is a much better overall athlete than Appier ever was.

I also don’t understand why 230 IP is a magical trouble number for a starting pitcher. Appier threw 200 innings or more in a season 8 times spanning from age 23 to 35 during a very successful MLB career.

Waiting for April.

by DC Royal on Sep 22, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I also don’t understand why 230 IP is a magical trouble number for a starting pitcher.

Because a pitcher who threw 230 innings got hurt once! Duh! Never mind that Mark Buerhle, Roy Oswalt, and John Smoltz all tossed 230 IP seasons before the age of 25 and had long injury-free careers.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 22, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The magic number is whatever works for a particular argument

Otherwise he’d never have anything to write about.

I don’t mind Carroll, he tries to do what nobody else really does, and he’s OK at it. But yeah, I would never confuse him for a real baseball analyst. He should just stick to the injuries.

by awolfson on Sep 22, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And Jenn Sterger

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 22, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

smoltz had an injury free career?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Sep 22, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

For the most part

He didn’t miss a ton of starts in his career. Up until his 30s he was pretty much DL free. If Zack is DL free until age 32, I’ll be pretty happy.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 22, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The stupidest part is about the wins

So, 14 isn’t that much more than 13, right… but it is more. Over 5% more in fact. You might as well not let Zack get any wins, because 1 isn’t that much more than 0, so what’s the point?

by awolfson on Sep 22, 2009 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I've always thought about trying to get out of a speeding ticket using this argument

Would you pull me over for 71 in a 70? No? Then 72 isn’t much more than 71, right? Would you pull me over for that? …. Then why did you pull me over for doing 96?

by AxDxMx on Sep 22, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Innocence by induction!

I’m going to have to try that.

by 2X2L on Sep 22, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Will Carroll obviously doesn't trust the Process

of stretching out pitchers out. GMDM asked Trey to do it.

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Sep 22, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Appier vs Greinke

I’ll preface this by saying I’m no expert on pitching mechanics, but…

Appier had atrocious mechanics, IMHO. He was one of my 3 all-time favorite Royals starters (Greinke, Sabes, Ape), but he was an injury waiting to happen.

Greinke, on the other hand, has about as smooth and perfect mechanics as you will ever see in a pitcher.

To sum it up – I’m not at all worried about Greinke and injury risk. I think more damage can be done by allowing 125+ pitch games too often than can be done by allowing 230+ inning seasons.

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Sep 22, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Good point

Not all innings are equal – it should be more about pitches thrown.

As an example, Zack has thrown 3193 pitches in his 210.1 innings so far (numbers taken from Baseball Reference). Justin Verlander has thrown 3562 pitches in just 7 more innings of work (217.1). That’s an extra 3 games worth of pitches (more or less). On the other hand, Roy Halladay has thrown 3178 pitches in his 221 innings (another game + of innings on fewer pitches than Zack).

Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau

by aHorseWithNoName on Sep 22, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs