According to Daniel Gutierrez's Facebook, he is in the process of being traded to the Texas Rangers (2:47 p.m. CT). It's drawn several comments and sounds legitimate. Stay tuned.
over 2 years ago
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Greg Schaum posted this as well
Although I don’t know if he got it from Facebook or an independent source.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Facebook post has now een deleted
My witty Texas / “well oiled machine” pun falls by the wayside, but I wonder what the return will be….
Is he healthy yet?
I don’t remember hearing anything about him since he refused to see the Royals assigned doctors.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Yep
He’s been pitching since late July. 1.65 ERA in 27 IP at Wilmington.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Greg Schaum reports
We got C Manuel Pina and OF Tim Smith
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=pina—001man
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=smith-004tim
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
well...looks like mitch maier/shane costa redux....
and miguel olivo minus the power
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 3, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Pina is supposed to be a plus defender
But yea, when I saw Smith’s number, the first thing I thought of was “Shane Costa”
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
i wish you would leave....
i didnt like this trade before you showed up with your knowledge
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 3, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Pina is a back-up at best
Smith is a good hitter and a good OF though.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
so...he's a corner OF with bad defense that has hit 8 HR this year?
awesome
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 3, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
so his upside
is DDJ’s bat with Jose Guillen’s defense. yay
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by Matt Klaassen on Sep 3, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
The world doesnt end until December 12
so there’s time for the parade, hell theres even time for the lighting ceremony @ the Plaza!
BOOM! ROASTED!
beat me to it
at the end of last season, Sickels rated Gutierrez as a B- sleeper prospect (pre immature dustup re: the Royals awesome medical staff). Smith didn’t make the Rangers top 24, so you’d guess from the list that Sickels had him as a C prospect at best, but others know better.
Since Pina is “defense first,” I won’t bother, but here are some DT’s for Smith the in 2009:
Regular translation (BAK, A+): .264/.301/.352 .231 EqA
Peak: .280/.341/.424 .268 EqA
FRI (AA)
Regular Translation: .273/.316/.399 .252 EqA
Peak: .287/.350/.455 .282 EqA
MLE’s from minor league splits (these are very different than DT’s and to not adjust for peak age, etc.):
2008, A-ball: .206/.242/.296
2009 A+: .238/.292/.310
2009 AA: .243/.297/.333
never know what to make of MLEs, butit’s interesting stuff. If you trust the DT’s “Peak Translations,” he’s got DDJ possibilities… but also keep in mind those are usually optimistic.
Gutierrez better not turn out to be good.
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by Matt Klaassen on Sep 3, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
GMDN must have mis-read
Manuel;s last name as “Pena”.
We will have an all-Pena Royals team in our lifetime!
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
jackassness mostly was what kept him out....
but i dont remember what the original injury was….
he caused a bunch of trouble by refusing to rehab with the royals crack medical staff and instead rehabbing with boras’ people
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 3, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah...alot of people here were pissed....
and a couple months later realized our medical staff was absolutely awful
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 3, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't think he was actually injured
i think he was just in trouble with the law and the royals were upset with him. maybe there was an injury, but someone was said that was bad information.
He’d been suspended by the Royals before for his off the field conduct, so they are probably just sick of him by now.
by 9il on Sep 3, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, Nolan will just have to kick him in the ass
and straighten him out :) lol
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
dude allegedly likes to smoke some weed....
nothing to be really worried about…just quit being dumb enough to get caught
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 3, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
i think it was more than that
i want to say assault and driving something like 40 over the speed limit. I’m not sure if these were connected to the same event. There may have been more. He’s got talent. He’s more valuable than what we got in return.
by 9il on Sep 3, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Mike Moustakas plays that role for the Royals minor leagues
he’s much better at roughing up lazy teammates than opposing pitchers
much, much better
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by Matt Klaassen on Sep 3, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
From a post at Lone Star Ball back in May
Breakouts
Manny Pina – Pina finished April 2008 as a 481/518/731/1249 hitter. Pina benefited from a .537 BABIP that is clearly unsustainable, though the high average appears to be the result of an obscenely high line drive rate (41%) that is more than two-fold higher than the Texas League average. Interestingly, Pina’s line drive rate improved throughout his 2008 season (from 12% in April to 24% in August) which suggests that his ability to recognize and square up pitches is improving and perhaps he can maintain a LD% (and corresponding BABIP) that is above league average. Pina is also showing annual increases in extra base hits, with 12 in 2007, 21 in 2008, and 35 projected for 2009. Assuming Pina’s BABIP drops to ~.325, he is likely to post a hitting line in the neighborhood of 300/350/450/800 as a 21 yr old in AA and add his name to the list of catchers that experts discuss when addressing Texas’ catching depth.
Heartbreaks
Tim Smith – Smith has gotten better as he has advanced – 277/388/373/761 in Spokane/Clinton in 2007, 297/356/448/804 in Clinton in 2008, and 351/422/509/931 in Bakersfield thus far in 2009. Unfortunately, Smith’s AVG and SLG in 2009 have benefited from a 429 BABIP despite a line drive rate that is below 10%. Unless he is able to increase his homerun rate (<4%) or decrease his strikeout rate (>20%), Smith’s Bakersfield stats are likely to slip into the 290/360/440/800 range that is reserved for 23 yo non-prospects in the Cal League.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Sep 3, 2009 4:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
none of his MLEs at minorleaguesplits
are over .600 OPS.
DT regular translation for this season:
.232/.264/.357 .215 EqA
peak translation:
.247/.297/.405 .243 EqA
as noted above, he has Poor Man’sOlivo potential with the bat, according to this stuff
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by Matt Klaassen on Sep 3, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
did I miss something?
did DG actually DO/GET Caught anything? or did he just become a boras client and then suddenly we had to act like he was a bad guy who didn’t respect the game, his natural role as a low-paid serf, our national innocence, etc?
I know he's doing community service for something in arizona this fall
i think destroying national innocence was one of the crimes instituted under the patriot act.
by 9il on Sep 3, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea he was caught
He had a court date in August.
Still – so what? Roman Colon was charged with assault. ON HIS TEAMMATE! Jose Guillen is a jerk. Alberto Callaspo got a DUI. I don’t get selling low with a guy who has some good upside.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
dont forget bert beating his wife
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 3, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
And Alex Gordon smirks too much
Which is probably worse than all the others combined.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Can we do a survey on confidence with Moore now?
I mean what’s the point of trading high upside players for lower upside guys? I know we have more pitching depth than hitting. But come on! Royals don’t have much prospects to begin with. You can find a defense first starting Catcher anywhere. I mean we can get Gregg Zaun for about a million a year right?
Mourning Guy Carbonneau...
Royals obscure player to watch in ST: Lenny DiNardo
I love Gregg Zaun as much as the next dork
but I’m pretty sure “defense first” isn’t the best description for him.
Good OBP skills (for a catcher), though.
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by Matt Klaassen on Sep 3, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Catcher defense
The perception of catcher defense is the opposite of the catchers hitting abilities, with an addition for how many baserunners the catcher throws out.
Which means that if TPJ were a catcher, he would be considered the greatest defensive catcher ever (according to Ryan) if TPJ could throw people out.
Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis
getting two guys who can be in Omaha next year for one guy who’d be in Springdale (if healthy) doesn’t seem like that horrible of a gamble.
1) We’re gonna need young infielders when we give up on Lubanski
2) Smith is not going to outrank a Parraz when it comes to the next 4th outfielder on this team
3) How the hell DF comes up with a “Jose Guillen’s defense” claim for a guy who is defensively bland (no assists or errors) is beyond me. But it beats his random contrarianism directed at Joe Posnanski.
Best case scenario is that Pina plays in Omaha and plays in KC by the end of 2010. While Smith is second or third in line for a mid-season callup when one of our outfielders gets hurt.
While Gutierrez will be in High A and AA in 2010.
Pina is 3 months younger than Gutierrez. Smith is 9 months older. Gutierrez will be 23 next April.
Pina is a catcher with a good arm in an organization where he would have been blocked. Now he’s in an organization where he’s the best young catcher. Isn’t acquiring guys who are blocked in other organizations something that good/competent GMs should aim to do?
Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis
fuck it....lets trade dwyer for a random AAA player b/c he'll be at a higher level next year...good strategy....
blocked guys that you acquire should have some potential to be good….these guys dont seem to….while guitierrez.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 3, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
can't trade dwyer
he was drafted this year.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
nah...cant even be that i dont think....
i think the limit for that is 6 months….but my point stands
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 3, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Gutierrez also had injury and character problems this year. He’s the same age and a level behind both of the players we got for him. We also have more problems with bats than arms. We have ZERO young catchers of much worth.
Manuel Pina also means that Miguel Olivo doesn’t get another 2 years. Maybe.
Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis
yikes
make some comments about a 26 year-old who’s slightly above average in AAA getting tons of press and I’m a “random contrarian.” How dare you, sir!
As for Smith, I was half joking. I mean, there’s very little chance he hits as well as DDJ… okay, that’s another joke. There’s a chance.
But as for defense, I was going off KinslerHomer (a TEX minor league follower)‘s comment above. Assists and Errors are a crappy was to evaluate defense. Now, TotalZone for minor leaguers is stil in its infancy, but it’s better than A+E, and guess what? Smith is pretty bad. Ans that’s straight up, without the MLEs that deal with the fact that TotalZone compares to average, and on the lower levels in particular, guys are learning new positions, playing out of position, etc. all the time. SO, yeah, if he’s even average now, at 23 (and OF defense declines early) in AA… what’s he going to be like at the show?
Not saying that he’s useless, but he’s hardly a candidate to start in the majors, most likey.
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by Matt Klaassen on Sep 3, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
You’ve been bagging on Posnanski for a few other things (re: a lack of coverage of Gordon and DeJesus).
The thing with Chris Disco Hayes is that he gets more of a following when this pen sucks and DM refuses to change things up. So Hayes may not be a long lasting pitcher (not a ton of submariners last long, it seems).
Outfield range defense evaluation also has to consider who is in centerfield for Smith. Idk how many plays Craig Gentry and Engel Beltre make. But a centerfielder with lots of range has a way of depressing the range totals for others.
Then again, this defense has a lot of plays where outfielders cross paths in the gaps instead of one player playing a gap.
Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis
um, MAYBE for Range Factor
but that isn’t how zone-based metrics work, at least to the limited extent I understand them
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by Matt Klaassen on Sep 3, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
i've seen mysterious bouncing in UZR
Felix Pie is one example.
One of the things we don’t yet know in regards to chances is if the balls are landing in front of him (neutral, bad if it’s in his radius), behind him (bad), to the left or right, or what.
Still beats the Gathright clone army that we have playing Centerfield on 4 of our minor league teams
Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis
the "bouncing"
has to do with sample size and measurement error. Not with “ball hogs.”
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by Matt Klaassen on Sep 3, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Guys come on
This move was clearly a push for NW to make the playoffs! Wilmington has it locked up already.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
awesome...another weak hitting canadian corner OF
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 3, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Larry walker says the same.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
and, and jason bay just called as well
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Wait a minute
Are you saying we just handed a job to someone that’s not even from America?
TRAITOR MOORE!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I see this as DM cleaning house....
Danny had on and off the field issues including attitude, Dan Cortez did as well too. I can see this in retaliation to a couple of our other prospects that had high expectations getting suspensions for substance abuse that doesn’t involve performance enhancing drugs. I don’t mind this, although I wish we had got more in return, but I can see/agree with the reasoning.
why doesn't he do this with the big league club then?
Problems, arrests, and assholes are easily found in the Royals clubhouse.
He can get 4, NOT 5.
b/c more people would notice if we traded away our goodish major league players for nothing....
95% of the royals fanbase wont know about this ever
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 3, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Most people would applaud if we traded away Jose Guillen for nothing
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I think when it all said and done and other info comes out….you might see why the Royals had to make this deal
I can not talk about those things right now…I hope what I have given you will suffice
Gutierrez hit Sluggerrrr with his H2?
Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis
that quote is from Schaum on Scouts, BTW
Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis
i really hate how schaum just absolutely loves to flaunt his 'insider knowledge' but never put it out there....
‘i know something you dont know….nah nah nah’
either say something or keep your mouth shut
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 3, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Schaum has a newborn kid
you’re only supposed to lose your job by spilling all when your kid is in elementary school
Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis
I go out for a little while, come back and see this.
It makes me scared to leave my house. I am thoroughly unimpressed by this trade. Trade high upside arm for a couple of low upside players. Even if DG needed to be traded, this was not a good return.
Figured it out
This team is so good that they’ll never “catch” the Nats by the end of the season, so Moore knew he needed to acquire a guy like Pina to take what would have been Harper’s place.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
Bryce Harper is a catcher for the same reason that Albert Pujols was a shortstop
“Hey, kid who hits a ton of home runs, can you play this position of weakness?”
When you hit really well, you can play anywhere you damn well please.
BTW, You can’t spell Bryce Harper without Hype.
Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis
Harper by all accounts will stick at catcher
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 3, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
You also can't spell Bryce Harper without
cherry rape.
by AxDxMx on Sep 3, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
billybeingbilly
I am sorry that you do not like that I tip people off to things
But, damn I just broke this trade and it has not even been announced yet. I am not trying to nah, nah, nah, anyone…But I can’t tell you everything until I know more
As a matter of fact, I would prefer that all of this was broken over the radio, but I know that most of you do not have the time to listen to every show…or some of you might not like me…so, this platform is the best way to get stuff out
BTW Gutierrez pleaded guilty to the assault charge and will pay a $500 fine and do community service in Surprise
Again, I take no pride in
"our deepest fears are not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fears is that we are powerful beyong measure."
by gashousegang on Sep 3, 2009 5:40 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
i dont have a problem with you...i think you do a good job...
i would just prefer it if you refrained from throwing out hints at stuff that we may or may never find out. It just bothers me, thats all….i’m sure there are others out there that like to theorize about what info you’ve got…i’m just not one.
and if that gutierrez nugget was something that’s been around for awhile if that is indeed the ‘more to come’
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 3, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
last sentence was absolutely not english...
but what i meant was that gutierrez info has been floating around on the net for quite awhile
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 3, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
It has
Because i was one that gathered it…so I know it has
But, that is not why i said that….oh, how much do you hate me right now
I am kidding…I understand…to each his own
"our deepest fears are not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fears is that we are powerful beyong measure."
we appreciate the info. Keep us up to date.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
we love that you break this! :)
Great find and I hope you get some national (for the royals? No way…) media attention. like on MLB TR, GS breaks the trade.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
the sheet has been pulled back
and it is me…I was hoping to just be a fan on this site…unlike at scout…
But, I can’t do that….
oh well….love this board BTW… a great group of fans
"our deepest fears are not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fears is that we are powerful beyong measure."
meh, we won't bug you too much
that’s what Twitter is for
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Sep 3, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
d_f and NYRoyal
for 8 random Cardinal fans. They’re the best baseball fans there are and would never dare to question The Process™.
If you look closely, it really says "CentralChamps2012."
by CentralChamps2009 on Sep 5, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ok, that's funny.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
I don't pretend to know whether this trade is "fair" or not,
but I want to say I sure do wish Moore had the ability (read: the organizational assets) to aim a little higher when trying to solve an apparent upcoming roster problem.
I get that Olivo & Buck aren’t coming back – that makes perfect sense, as both will cost too much, and Moore really needs to free up some payroll so he at least has a modicum of payroll flexibility going forward. It’s just that I’d rather see them take a chance on Brayan Pena. I suppose this move could be simply to add some minor league depth. Maybe Moore learned something from his mistake this last offseason of not having a viable backup plan to Aviles at shortstop.
The whole B Pena thing is confusing – they say they want to take a look at him, then he catches only 3 times in 15 games. Heh – if they have already concluded he is not a viable starter, or that he is only good enough to serve as a backup catcher/DH/pinch hitter, I’m fine with that too – but for chrissakes, come out and say it! I get tired of trying to read between the lines for every damn decision they make. Try a little more bluntness! Trust your fanbase – if you really are afraid to play B Pena more because you don’t want to risk losing 105 games instead of 100, then you are grossly misreading the fanbase! The fans know the Royals suck right now, and they know that the rest of this season should be DEVOTED to making the team better in 2010+, so the would be ON BOARD with sacrificing games now to help make decisions easier in the off season.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
Note to Royals Prospects:
If you would like out of the organization, see if you can get in a little trouble with the law—doesn’t have to be huge—misdemeanor is fine. You will be traded in no time…
by nwroyal on Sep 3, 2009 6:52 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
what about that one guy? whats his name....
… at burlington… Jason Taylor! What about him!
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
i think it's a "meh" trade
Clean house, get rid of guys you don’t like and trade them for some mid-level prospects… what’s so bad about that?
Let’s keep the “i hate GMDM” to things he does that are actually stupid… i think a reasonable person could see both sides of the coin on this one.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Sep 3, 2009 7:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
at worst...
… this is a “i hope Danny G doesn’t turn out great…”, and that’s a concern… but I don’t think anyone could/should necessarily call this trade dumb unless they can point to why.
The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com
by CollininCalifornia on Sep 3, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I look at it this way
I’m hardly an expert on the minors, to say the least.
But as I understand it, Gutierrez is a prospect. Smith and Pina are not.
Trading prospects for non-prospects is dumb.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Sep 3, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
This Smith kid
Apart from being Canadian, which is cool, doesn’t seem that exciting really. His numbers this year are good, until you realize most of it is the California League and his BABIP is so high aircraft have to take evasive maneuvers and without a high LD% to go with it. Is he really better than Parraz or Lough, who are at or just behind his level?
Pina kind of looks a bit meh. Better than any other catcher high up the system, so whatever.
This to me looks like Dayton going on a moral crusade again, which really isn’t the way to run a baseball club.
only if you dont have a seisure first
Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures
by averagegatsby on Sep 3, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
since he got off the smack?
Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures
by averagegatsby on Sep 3, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
i implore everyone to go read the comments on lonestarball.com....
and then find a move made by our gm that was regarded in a positive manner, almost without exception. Every single person on their board agrees that they got the better end of the deal. The only question a couple people have is about trading for another pitching prospect….Moore got taken to the woodshed…again.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 3, 2009 11:56 PM EDT reply actions
I'll wait on that
Usually the first posts are by people who have extreme bias or a hidden agenda (aka bashing GMDM to make themselves feel like a GM or something against an organization or a specific player….)
Once all that clears out, you can get some good info.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
ehh...alot of the texas fans STILL dont buy in to daniels (and washington) from what ive read on there....
and its one thing for most people to think one thing or another, but its another entirely for nobody to disagree with the move. Even here, when the majority have been correct just about every time, there have been multiple dissenters (Jacobs, Yuni, Crisp, etc). I have a hard time believing that everyone on that board could be wrong
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 4, 2009 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Another factor is that fans of teams consistently overvalue prospects within that organization
If you read blog and team BBS comments about players in an organization you see that fans almost invariably overrate a team’s prospects. Some guy with a hole in his swing the size of fully grown Sasquatch dings 35 homers in high-A ball, and he’s penciled as the cleanup hitter for the teams future with a 2-year ETA. Some 20 year-old junk-baller with a good command of an off-speed pitch notches a K/9 of more than 8.0, and he’s as good as a #3 starter on the MLB club. The fans then lament and moan when the team trades the guy from some no-name prospect or complains the club is giving up on him too early when they leave him off the 40-man roster.
When the general sense on a message board is that a team traded for an unknown prospect and came out ahead – that is extremely unusual and is probably quite telling.
The biggest reason that Texas fans like this trade?
Those 2 guys would never play in Texas. They have Salty and Teagarden behind the plate, and an outfield packed with players like Hamilton, Cruz, and Borbon. Smith and Pina are spare parts, ANY return for these guys was a plus.
We really should have seen this trade coming after Cortes was traded for peeing in public.
It's also unlikely that Pina would have been protected this winter
He likely would have been available for free via the Minor League Rule 5 draft. Instead of taking Pina why not go for a player with a bit more upside and who has one or two years of service time?
I’m primarily a Mariners fan, and watching Moore at work is uncannily like watching a reenactment of our Bavasi era. Both Moore and Bavasi have the same operating philosophies; have the same reputed player drafting and development strengths; make similar miscalculations in assessing major league talent and constructing a MLB roster; give lip service to the importance of OBP while filling a roster with guys who have little interest in working a count; believe that grit, character, and playing the game the “right way” will overcome significant differences in talent and will gladly acquire players of mediocre talent who show those traits; …. I could go on.
The thing is that even if Moore is correct in his “Process”, he has displayed little apparent ability to manage a MLB roster. Right now he’s playing with small chips, and showing that he doesn’t know how to read the rest of the players at the table. If the process works and he has a larger stack of chips, what’s to believe he’s going to suddenly start making better bets? Or is it more likely that he’ll still be the patsy.
He’s been sitting at the table for several hands and he hasn’t figured out who’s the patsy. Which, of course, means that he’s the patsy.
by Steve Nelson on Sep 4, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
OK, my internet connection at home is a bit faulty
Indeed, “D-Gut” (nice nickname, Will!) has been traded….he has made it known….everyone has made it known and….yeah.
Let the Pina and Smith eras begin. (Are either of them top 30-B.A. worthy?)
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