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Around SBN: Uga VII, Requiescat in Pace: A Tribute to a Damn Good 'Dawg

Soren Petro: Dayton Moore said there was a concentrated effort to extend guys, to try to get the starting pitchers to go deeper into games. That's obviously a process, its a great idea in theory. Is that process one of the major reasons why Gil Meche and Brian Bannister are finishing the year on the disabled list?

Trey Hillman: I think its a possibility that people don't understand the mental part of this game. You asked me earlier whether or not it was part of the philosophy. Yes it was. And it was ingrained in these guys from February on when they came into the early camp. You know there are a couple of things that we haven't done any differently than we did last year when we had much fewer sore shoulders and breakdowns so to speak...The adjustment we did make this year was we asked pitchers, we asked our starting pitchers, to expect to finish the game. And its a mindset.

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Injuries: A Mental Part of The Game That People Just Don't Understand!

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Sep 30, 2009 11:38 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Brian Bannister and Gil Meche

Weak-minded fools.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 30, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meche and Banny

Probably thought about getting hurt really hard, and it happened. They’re just quitters.

I bet Hoch thinks really hard about getting shelled in a single inning……damn you Hoch, think about the CG.

Sponsor of the Will Ebner Physical Therapy Center for Players Who've Been Hit By Will Ebner and Want to Try to Stop the Ringing. Or WEPTCPWBHBWEWTSR for short.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Sep 30, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously asking pitchers to finish the game...

Is all you need to do in order to prepare them for more innings. I didn’t realize “stretching out” a pitcher was so psychological.

by awolfson on Sep 30, 2009 11:53 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

was interested in going

Haven’t been to a concert in 7 years, and U2 would be good, but tickets are not cheap.

by BrRoyal on Sep 30, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Weak shouldered bastards…

by PopeSoria on Sep 30, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

these guys are blindly chasing anything "old-school" they can think of

any square peg they can try to put in a round hole

and its embarrassing, and its failing

by royalsreview on Sep 30, 2009 12:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I did like Soren's follow up

“Can you compete with a $22 million Gil Meche on the disabled list?”

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 30, 2009 12:44 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

And he asked it three different times

and got no real answer out of Trey. Just some incoherant ramblings about how pitchers in Japan throw 160 pitches + on 1 more days rest.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Sep 30, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

just what is Trey trying to say here?

that the pitchers thought about pitching more innings, and so talked themselves into arm problems? I wish I could be educated on this matter.

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Sep 30, 2009 1:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

none of it makes any sense

complete with the line at the end about how they were the same as last year, which contradicts his earlier point about how they were ingrained (for about two months, apparently) with this new idea

by royalsreview on Sep 30, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what exactly is the plan

I can’t figure out whether Trey and Dayton (aka “Treyton”) both are just this stupid… which seems incredible, or whether they both hate their jobs so much they’re trying to get fired so they can get paid out for the rest of their contracts and move on.`

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Sep 30, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

last night I wrote that I hated Trey Hillman

that wasn’t quite right. I don’t really hate anybody (AJ maybe?), but I hate the decisions he makes with the bullpen. Leaving starters in too long, bringing in the wrong guy in different situations. Then he makes statements that, as you say, don’t make any sense. Yeeesh!

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Sep 30, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but he handles adversity with such grace

you have to give him that

it is clear to see that Hillman was not emotionally/mentally ready for this job, perhaps he was baseball-wise (not much since the standards of the job are so damn low) but he has a real hard time handling adversity

by royalsreview on Sep 30, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Might as well have said...

“90% of the game is half mental.” I guess we’re all idiots for not understanding that.

I tried something sorta similar to this once. Back in college, I thought that I was smart and that I didn’t really need to study that hard to do well. So, I picked one of my classes, and all I did is attend class. I didn’t do any extra studying or preparation. I got a “D” on the next test. Turns out that I’m not that smart – I actually had to work hard to do well. I know that’s not similar in the physical aspect but my mindset was about the same.

And that’s really the part that Trey (and perhaps DM?) is missing here. While setting goals and believing and having confidence that you’ll achieve them is an “element” of success, the most important thing is actually doing the work and preparation needed to succeed. If you stop at the goal setting stage (and leave the rest to blind faith), you will fail and fail miserably.

Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau

by aHorseWithNoName on Sep 30, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

That Makes 45%

Yogi did a lot of research th prove this, and you could look it up.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Sep 30, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

re: 6 out saves with 3 run leads

that’s pretty much a bad idea, right?

because it cost us the game last night

Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis

by BHWick on Sep 30, 2009 1:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I have to agree with Trey

I mean, they did the same thing they did as last year, who could have predicted their injuries? I mean, I remember when I bought my used car. The first year, I drove it a ton! I put 30,000 miles on it. The next year I did the exact same thing and the car broke down! Who could have predicted that?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 30, 2009 1:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

who could have known that

having a guy throw 120 pitches in 6 innings coming off of a dead arm would be a bad idea?

Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis

by BHWick on Sep 30, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More on that interview yesterday

I thought I heard Hillman explain how pitchers in Japan are conditioned to throw longer than here in the States. Can somebody find the exact quote(s) on this? That ought to add some more snarkiness to this post!

Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!

by loyal2sdad on Sep 30, 2009 1:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He said

Pitchers in Japan throw upwards of 160 pitches on 6 days rest (they use 6 man rotations).

He wasn’t making a point with it, he was just rambling to avoid answering Sorens poignant questions.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Sep 30, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was going to post a recap of this interview

But given my current state of Apathy RE: The Royals, I forgot.

Soren really had to hold himself back on Trey, and you could tell throughout the discussion on pitchers. Soren stated early on that KC’s pitchers (-Zack) have an ERA of NINE+ in starts that followed 2 starts of >115 pitches.

Later in the interview, Trey started to ask, “You’ve done the research on pitch counts, and have you found tangible data?” and Soren started to jump all over it, but before he had a chance, Trey realized his error, and continued to ramble on about nothing for a couple of minutes, turning it into a rhetorical question. A frustrated Soren just went to break after that nonsense.

Trey Hillman will not manage in KC after 2010. I’d bet my house on it. I’d bet my boat that he’ll be gone before the All-star break next year if we had a different GM.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Sep 30, 2009 1:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Soren stated early on that KC’s pitchers (-Zack) have an ERA of NINE+ in starts that followed 2 starts of >115 pitches.

That was a pretty impressive stat. If only they had better mindsets.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 30, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

^that!

Wait. Sarah Palin's in Hong Kong? But who's watching Russia?

by labbadabba on Sep 30, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd

Sponsor of the Will Ebner Physical Therapy Center for Players Who've Been Hit By Will Ebner and Want to Try to Stop the Ringing. Or WEPTCPWBHBWEWTSR for short.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Sep 30, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd be wary of sample size issues on that

But the point stands. After all, we do watch the games (from our mother’s basement, of course).

by awolfson on Sep 30, 2009 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most inept GM and Manager team ever?

Whenever you think that the Treyton boys could not say anything that shows their ignorance of baseball any more , one of them gets interviewed and puts their stupidity on display for all to hear. I think the Royals challenge the 120 loss mark next year. Mark my words, they make no substantive moves this off season and prettty much stand pat. DDJ and Teahen regress as they start the down side of their careers, Callaspo and Olivo don’t post seasons as good as 2009 and the Royals hit their 110th loss on September 15th

by Olentangy on Sep 30, 2009 2:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

120 losses is ridiculous

I don’t like Trey or Dayton, but the Royals have enough talent to be around 60 wins.

by BrRoyal on Sep 30, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can see Dayton's performance review now...

Glass: So I just want to get one thing straight.
Dayton: Shoot, big boy.
Glass: We’re not the worst team in history, are we?
Dayton: What?! Not even close. We’re on the right track. Trust the process.
Glass: OK, as long as I have your word…
Dayton: I swear it on my pet ferret’s grave!
Glass: Good, then I can go ahead and give you this contract extension… and heck, why not a raise, too?
Dayton: Gee whillickers!

by awolfson on Sep 30, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clearly there is a right way to stretch people out and a wrong way...

And clearly the right way is the way the Rangers are doing things… Which would mean that the Royals probably are doing something wrong

Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures

by averagegatsby on Sep 30, 2009 2:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The similarities between

Trey Hillman and George Bush are becomming staggering.

Obviously both from Texas
Both hailed from proud franchises, which surely led them to their highest office (Bush was a Bush, Hillman was a Yankee)
Both have a tendency to retreat to the Texas Ranch when times are tough
Both sound like complete fucking idiots when answering a question, and similarily both dance around actually answering questions with the grace of a one legged ballerina
Both would take Sammy Sosa on their team RIGHT NOW

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Sep 30, 2009 2:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Outstanding comparison.

I would add that both thought God was on their side,
and that simply believing this would lead to the right answers.

At least Trey is only ruining our franchise.

by kgustaf on Sep 30, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, one was the leader of the free world. One managed a baseball team.

You and I know nothing about what Bush was dealing with every day. But stop with the stupid idea that you can compare what a president does to what a manager does.

Can we keep this on baseball?

by KCROYALS64 on Sep 30, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea you're right

“We’ll” keep this on baseball, as we are all breathless with anticipation to read your 4th post of all time.

God I love pissed off right wingers with no sense of humor

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Sep 30, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

im sure that if people started talking shit on obama i could say

God I love pissed off left wingers with no sense of humor

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Sep 30, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

as a Democrat, let me note that

GW Bush has won something big in his life. Hillman hasn’t.

Politics also turns people into jackasses

Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis

by BHWick on Oct 1, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

HIllman won the Japanase World Series

naysayer

BIlly – JFC was a moniker of my frustration of having had drawn 2 people into a politically fueled debate over an off handed, NOT off-color remark about our former Prez. It was not a product of being pissed

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Oct 1, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was fun...

…leaving world politics aside, I was hoping
to make an honest point and get opinions on
whether an owner should ask his GM if he
would run his baseball team based on science
or faith. Cause it really seems like the Royals
are being run completely on misplaced faith.
This isn’t to say that Trey and Dayton think that
God is rooting for the Royals, but the mindset
of believing in personal interventions from God
tends to displace all focus on evidence-based
decision-making.

Various reports (google “trey hillman faith”)
note that Trey brings his biggest Bible to team
events, believes he has a job in baseball
because he prayed for it…etc.

Faith-based baseball doesn’t work. That is
the moral of the season. Unfortunately, it is
silly for anyone to expect Moore and Hillman
to abandon their faiths. We’ll have to wait it
out. This probably means we have to wait out
David Glass too.

And please don’t think I’m criticizing religious
faith in general – just the juvenile practice of it
by the leaders of our Royals.

by kgustaf on Oct 1, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BITING MY TONGUE FIRMLY

All I’ll say about the “power of prayer”, is that I’m sure that Mike Sweeney prayed for good health at some point during his Royals career

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Oct 1, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow... That's all it takes to get an MLB job?

I’m going to start praying daily to become the cleanup hitter for the Royals. I’m pretty sure I could put up comparable stats in the 4 hole to what they had this year.

by AxDxMx on Oct 1, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

From politics to religion

The Royals have it all this year

by awolfson on Oct 2, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Marshall's exactly the sort of guy the R's should roll the dice on

it couldn’t hurt, and its one of the few ways they could gain a competitive advantage. I don’t know if there’s a group of people more risk averse than a modern day GM, though, so it would be a stretch to think they’d ever actually try something that is so out of the ordinary as that.

by marbotty on Sep 30, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i could definitely see the hiring of mike marshall having a negative effect for quite awhile...

you think boras and other agents steer their players away from the royals now, imagine if they do something crazy like this. Even if it is effective, it’d take years before Agents and players started to buy into it.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Sep 30, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's an interesting fellow

From what I understand he’s a bit abrasive though.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 30, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

does he have a pitching mound in his barn

the problem when it comes to coaches/vets who have had great careers or extraordinary gifts is when they expect others to be the same. Nolan Ryan’s “throw more pitches” talk

Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis

by BHWick on Oct 1, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

FO, Trey Hillman

I love how the dude condescends to fans by explaining how they don’t understand the intricacies of baseball. This from a guy who never played and never managed a big league ball club in the U.S. (I don’t consider what he does managing so his time with the Royals doesn’t count.) Hillman probably knows more about isolating an isotope than he does baseball. Go back to Texas or Japan. Anywhere but here.

by LaFLamme on Sep 30, 2009 2:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I know we don't like Dayton

But I don’t think putting Trey in the front office is the answer.

by awolfson on Sep 30, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just listening to that interview on the 810 podcast, too

Early, on in the interview, Soren asked very few questions and just let Trey talk. However, they were fairly poignant points when he did and he was quite respectful while still asking quality questions.

A couple of “interview” points- about the format, not content:

You could hear the frustration at one point, tho, when he went to the car analogy and was all but lecturing Trey about just how wrong he was. I’m sure when he goes back, Soren probably was kicking himself a little for that but it’s really what Trey needed to hear.

Trey kindof danced around as a manager probably should do. There really is an art to giving an interview and not saying something. Unfortunately, for him, he still isn’t that great at it (may never be) and he comes off sounding bad even when he’s not trying to say anything at all.

by sterlingice on Sep 30, 2009 3:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Soren is awesome

He consistently delivers the best, most entertaining interviews you can find.

While ya’ll are on the podcast site, seriously, check out some of the archived interviews w/ Mark Teahen, they are hilarious.

The Car analogy was fantastic, and I think after he brought that up was when Trey REALLY started rambling to fill as much time as possible to avoid any more questions, especially baseball related questions.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Sep 30, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think his show is my favorite sports talk show that I've heard

Yes, there’s a lot of fluff- sponsor stuff but they have to pay the bills and then there’s some clowning around I could care less about (I don’t care about Intern Jeopardy, really, or Stump the Chumps- but I know that’s a staple of his) but I’m guessing they do that to fill some time.

I wish they would post the monologues online as when I was working in KC, I was trying to always get my first call of the day done by 11 so I could be on the road when that monologue came on at 11:10~11:15.

I love the consistent variety- there’s baseball during the winter when everyone else is just talking Chiefs or college sports. There’s college sports and football during the spring and summer. I think they genuinely try to get a mix so that it’s not the same Football Work Week (initial reaction Monday, breakdown Tuesday, big picture Wednesday, look ahead Thursday, and solid preview Friday)

It’s the only place in KC to get a shred of NBA or NHL talk, even if it is very casual. I don’t hear NASCAR or outdoors talk, but it’s not his domain but I guess that’s a knock on the variety comment.

I’m just glad it’s online so I can listen even tho I’m no longer in KC.

by sterlingice on Sep 30, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He does

have a lot of sponsor fluff, but that is part of being a good radio guy in todays day and age. He pimps his sponsors without sounding like he is being paid to do it.

I am a BIG fan of Stump the Chumps, Intern Jeopardy sucks because the interns are all retards.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Sep 30, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1000

His show is heads and tails better than any other in the area.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Sep 30, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm neutral on Soren

but if he beats 610’s Nick Wright to death in a charity boxing match, it makes the Church of Lazlo on 96.5 less fun (where Nick does a segment with the hosts about sports)

Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis

by BHWick on Sep 30, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I heard about that...

What happened between those 2? Nick Wright the other day was saying something about how, he used to call Soren his “Buddy down the dial”, but now he cant since Soren called him a _ sucker…

NIck Wright is OK at times, he does make some good takes, he is just somewhat infected with the douchbaggery that occurs after ROme w/ Chris & Cowboy. THose two are complete and total tools. THeir one trick ponies, all they do is make fun of KK

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Oct 1, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i like nick wright alot of the time...

but he does come off as an asssucker when he is talking about tank and turk and the other chiefs players that he goes clubbing with. I’m sure there are other guys in town that hang out with some of the athletes they cover, but we just dont know about it b/c their bias towards those guys isnt so obvious. It seems like Mark Teahen and Soren are pretty good buddies, yet when they’re in an interview, Soren still asks him legit questions rather than talking non stop about how awesome he is in hopes of keeping his ‘clubbing with the Chiefs pass’.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Oct 1, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Soren Today

I caught a bit of Soren’s show today while in my car and he was pretty fired up over Hillman and the destruction of Meche.

I think some of these pitchers should grow a pair, condition themselves to go the distance, suck it up and pitch! Sorry. I make the mistake of comparing them to Greinke. Last night’s game against the Yankees was an embarrassment. Lerew was awesome, but Farnsworth!!
Learn to play your position defensively!

Zack, line these guys up and show ’em how its done!

Sorry, I got off track…

Soren’s Hillman interview Rocked.

by RoyalsForever on Sep 30, 2009 3:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

When Meche first became a regular starter with Seattle ...

he was often criticized (including not-so-veiled criticism from the team front office) for being soft and not mentally tough. The belief was that he needed to suck it up and learn to pitch through some pain.

After a year or so of that they found out he had been pitching with severely frayed labrum. To this day, Meche is one of only a handful of pitchers who have returned from labrum surgery to have successful careers. (And it needs to be remembered that Meche’s labrum was frayed, not torn.)

The more I read about the Dreyton (wonderfully constructed word, btw) Royals, the more they sound like the Mariners during Gillick’s last couple of years and all of Bavasi’s tenure.

It’s a real case of dejá moo – that’s the feeling you get when you know you’ve seen that BS before.

by Steve Nelson on Sep 30, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh God

I just realized. Our GM is possibly worse than Bill Bavasi. Damn you Steve Nelson.

by awolfson on Sep 30, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well, Trey does really, really admire Tony LaRussa

Maybe Bradley and Drew as OF bookends

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Sep 30, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

and two more guys for Dayton And Trey to blame for the teams failures.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Sep 30, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

. . . while they praise the infield

of Hank Blalock, Yuniesky Betancourt, Willie Bloomquist, and Mike Jacobs.

by Gopherballs on Sep 30, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jesus Would Smile

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Sep 30, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

The Yankees fans hate the best player in baseball this generation (or possibly 2nd best- but Pujols hasn’t done it as long)

by sterlingice on Sep 30, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

every city with jd drew...

boston with manram the last couple years

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Sep 30, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but JD Drew is a perrenial underachiever

Who has often been overpaid and deserves to have batteries thrown at him for his contract negotiations.

by sterlingice on Sep 30, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if by perennial you mean once in his career....

well…fangraphs doesnt have the info for the first 3 years of his career…but he was pretty good those years too

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Sep 30, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

JD Drew is really good

almost no pre-arb/arb player is ever overpaid, re: his earlier years.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Sep 30, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"almost no pre-arb/arb player is ever overpaid"

aside from TPJ

Graduate with a B.S. from the Dayton Moore School of Stats Analysis

by BHWick on Oct 1, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

despite his horrifying 2008 and 2009

he was actually decent in 2007

they should have quit when they were ahead

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Oct 1, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boston only hated ManRam his last month there, at most

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Sep 30, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

boston's even good

at trading players the fan base hates.

If only we could unload Dejesus and Gordon and everyone else without the fire of Willie Ballgame Christ.

by wildthang on Oct 1, 2009 3:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the organization doesn't hate him and single him out for criticism for not playing well

certainly not the last 2-3 years

dependson what generation you put him in. Is there a generation between Bonds (who was clearly way better than everyone else) and Pujols (who’s probably been a bit better than A-Rod since around 2004)?

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Sep 30, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

true, I forgot about that

that Joe Torre’s a genius

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by devil_fingers on Sep 30, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Definitely different generations

At least, if you think a baseball generation is relatively short (5-10 years, perhaps).

I associate Bonds with the beginning of the steroid era, the irony being that at the time, he was considered the skill/speed contract to the big hitters like Canseco and McGwire, and he ended up as the most notorious steroid user of all-time.

A-Rod was quintessentially a mid- to late-90s player, and I associate him with the evolution of the SS position (with Jeter and Nomar), along with the apex of the steroid era in the early 00s.

Pujols, I associate with the beginning of the post-steroid era, which I suppose you could date to the introduction of the testing policy in 2003. He’s been among the top players in the league since around that time, and he certainly dominates the current generation (and will for a few more years). Whereas A-Rod is now in decline.

So that was almost completely off-topic, but you got me thinking.

by awolfson on Sep 30, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Been thinking about this

and have to follow up.

It’s not completely stupid to coach some starters to be prepared mentally to remain in the game longer. However, to succeed consistently over a series of longer outings, as Greinke said recently, a starter has to figure out how to get outs while saving his best stuff for key situations. Back in the day this was how all starters pitched, because lineups typically included a few hitters who couldn’t hurt you much even if you threw them a batting practice fastball down the middle — the worst case was that they’d slap it someplace and get on base. Nowadays, even though there are plenty of bad hitters, almost everybody whips a thin-handled bat as fast as he can and can cause big trouble, if only occasionally. If you get too lax with these guys, they can do what Miguel Olivo does when he manages to “square it up”. So for a pitcher whose secondary stuff isn’t sufficient to get through the nether parts of the order — someone who will get into trouble unless he “gives everything he has” — then yes, it’s stupid.

I would say that Bannister is a guy who has to be at his best all the time to stay out of trouble, and I would say that Meche when he’s limited by a physical problems, as he clearly was from the start of spring training, is another. Hochevar is a guy who’s apt to lose his focus even when he’s in huge trouble, so encouraging him to think longer term is a terrible idea. You have to coach him to remember there’s a game going on. Davies? You’re lucky when an effective Davies shows up; take the good innings he can give you and get get him out of there as soon as he looks like he’s losing it.

But for any pitcher, regardless of ability, it’s totally stupid to combine coaching like this with the practice of gauging the appropriateness of keeping a pitcher in the game primarily on what he says himself, as the Royals do. Of course he’s going to say “Yes, I can go out for another inning, yes, I can get the next guy,” because you’ve told him that’s what you expect from him. You need to make up your mind about whether he’s reached or exceeded his limit based on other observations, because you’ve completely corrupted the information you’re going to get from the pitcher himself.

So, anyway: horrible job handling the starters this year, Royals. I recommend rethinking that philosophy for 2010.

by 2X2L on Oct 5, 2009 11:40 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I think this nails it.
I would say that Bannister is a guy who has to be at his best all the time to stay out of trouble, and I would say that Meche when he’s limited by a physical problems, as he clearly was from the start of spring training, is another. Hochevar is a guy who’s apt to lose his focus even when he’s in huge trouble, so encouraging him to think longer term is a terrible idea. You have to coach him to remember there’s a game going on. Davies? You’re lucky when an effective Davies shows up; take the good innings he can give you and get get him out of there as soon as he looks like he’s losing it.

These guys (especially Meche last 2/3’s and Bannister) don’t have the stuff to stretch out. Bannister follows Pitch f/x or other stats because that’s for his survival, he knows that without winning on the fringes he’s going to get his stuff pounded.

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Oct 6, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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