Gut Response: Are the Royals Better than the Orioles?
Will the 2010 Royals be better than the 2010 Orioles?
Last year the Royals went 65-97 with a pythag of 66-96. The Orioles had a similar season, going 64-98, with a pythag of 69-93.
I'm assuming you're familiar with off-season moves made by Dayton Moore. The Orioles have added Kevin Millwood, Garrett Atkins, Miguel Tejada, and Mike Gonzalez. I suppose their biggest off-season loss has been Melvin Mora.
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57 comments
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Comments
I voted no because...
1. Tejada is a shadow of his former MVP type, steroid(?) self. And Houston is a fantastic hitters park.
2. Garrett Atkins is iffy to repeat his best CO numbers.
3. Millwood is likely to revert to his career averages.
But Mike Gonzalez is a really, really solid pick up. Who wouldn’t want him? – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
I was just saying that their...
…off-season feels no better or worse than ours. We’ll see how it goes. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
The Contest
It’s almost unrecognizably equal in fail
Will Ebners Hit Parade, Pain TV; Channel 32; All the time! (PDT)
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jan 27, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
The Orioles have so much more young talent
Wieters, Reimold, Jones, Markakis, Pie, Matusz, Bergesen, Mickolio, Tillman
The Royals may have a better record next year but the O’s have more long-term pieces in place.
Waiting for April.
by DC Royal on Jan 27, 2010 2:25 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
and when did their rebuild start?
somehow hendry’s guys are like 3 years ahead of dayton’s
by Will McDonald on Jan 27, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Hendry?
Wieters and Matusz were just great draft picks, but the Eric Bedard trade for Jones, Tillman, and Mickolio was a just-add-water instant system rebuild.
True
And i forgot about Jake Arrieta, who probably won’t be ready this year but is already one of the best pitching prospects in baseball. Some of the O’s guys are high-risk, but that goes for any farm system.
Waiting for April.
O's drafted Wieters and he will start next season...
The Royals drafted ??? and where is he? Do they have a better scouting system then we do? No contest…
that's why the O's are ahead
They take Wieters, we take Moustakas.
I’m hoping that Dayton will have pulled a similar coup in picking sure fire college talent in Aaron Crow over some of the higher risk high school guys. We’ll see though.
Waiting for April.
Dayton had Moose rated higher than Wieters
Trust the process.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Well
They took college guys (Weiters and Matusz), we took HS guys (Moose and Hosmer). Even if those guys weren’t the studs they are and our guys didn’t both struggle last year, they would be farther ahead.
Hey, can I change my screen name to "CentralChamps20??"?
by CentralChamps2009 on Jan 27, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know that Wieters is really considered a coup
He was considered one of the top 2-3 talents in the draft. Moose, sadly was not.
It’s too bad we haven’t been doing a RR poll to vote on who the R’s should draft in the first round — I would bet we would collectively draft better than Moore would. In fact, based on all the love shown here for Smoak in 2008, for Wieters in 2007, and Lincecum in 2006, odds are we’d would collectively draft better than most GMs in baseball.
I think people were generally okay with Crow in 2009, but I also recall several of us hoping for Grant Green. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up being the better performer of the two.
and even if the two end up performing about the same, Green certainly made more sense for a system bereft of position prospects
But I thought that
“drafting to need” was considered terrible policy and taking the best player available regardless of position should always be done. After all, if he’s good and he’s extra, he can be traded.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
I definitely agree with that in most cases
I don’t agree necessarily that Crow was the better player of the two.
great idea, let's track this next draft
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "In the game of chess you can never let your opponent see your pieces"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 28, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Hendry = Macphail
I confuse my former Cubs GMs
by Will McDonald on Jan 27, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
easy way to tell the difference
MacPhail = good
Hendry = teh suck
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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by Matt Klaassen on Jan 27, 2010 3:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
when i lived in the chicago media footprint
I always got the weird notion that MacPhail wasn’t really the GM, he was more the “team president” whatever that meant
the relevance this has to anything I’m not sure
by Will McDonald on Jan 27, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
That's right
MacPhail was the president and CEO and had a GM under him. I do not remember if MacPhail reported directly to the Trib-controlled board or if there was someone else in between. Hendry, I think, was actually MacPhail’s last GM.
I don't think it's particulalry close
They were a better team than the Royals last year, hidden by being in a vastly superior division. And unlike the Royals, I can’t see where they have gone backwards this offseason.
FWIW (not much). the season series was 4-4 last year. 37 runs scored, 37 given up. They have got better, we haven’t. They win.
Greinke also started twice against Baltimore
so that helps
by Will McDonald on Jan 27, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
so the Orioles really could have scored 55 on the Royals?
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
If you put it this way though
Even if the O’s are better than the Royals (and I think they are), the Royals have a much better probability of winning their division, however small and unlikely, than the O’s. The AL East is brutal.
Waiting for April.
Oops, I read the question backwards as are the O's better than the Royals?
One yes vote should really be a no. As noted above, the O’s have so much more major league ready young talent — the addition of the veterans are pretty irrelevant.
For Baltimore AND Kansas City
the addition of the veterans are pretty irrelevant.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
just for different reasons
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "In the game of chess you can never let your opponent see your pieces"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 27, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
If the Orioles were in the Central Division
they would have been in contention for the division title. One thing I like about that organization is that they aren’t afraid to bring up young talent and let them get their feet wet. (ex. Nolan Riemold) This off season the O’s went out and spent money on proven talent and addressed most of their problems, unlike the Royals. They have a solid young outfield, a future all star catcher, along with a solid young pitching rotation. Millwood, Miggy, and Atkins will only enhance this team unlike Kendall, Pods, Anderson for the Royals. No contest on who’s better…none.
Meh, their starting pitching is still underwhelming overall....
It’ll be good in a few seasons (maybe even by next season), but it’s highly unlikely they would’ve even sniffed .500 with that rotation last season.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Whomever Sabean signs this off-season will make a good platoon partner with Ryan Gark-ohh... nevermind...
That's not true
I think that going forward the Orioles are a better team than the Royals, but the Orioles have been godawful in the past. People always like to say that they’d be contenders in the AL Central (especially Orioles fans desperate to cling to anything) but it’s just not true. I did some very basic/fuzzy math to determine just how they’d do in the Central over the past 9 years. If you like you can read it here: http://www.camdenchat.com/2009/12/21/1211978/mythbusters-would-the-os-be. Or just take my summary: The Orioles suck.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
We're gonna stink
Big time.
It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.
I voted yes on the back of their young outfield...
though thats probably because I expect the worst out of this season.
Pitchers and Catchers report February 17th... And so begins my masochistic addiction.
I mean I voted no, because of the Baltimore outfield
Pitchers and Catchers report February 17th... And so begins my masochistic addiction.
by averagegatsby on Jan 27, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
I voted no...
You will have to look awfully hard to find a team worst than the Royals maybe the Omaha O’Royals but even that is doubtful.
I voted yes, because.....
of blind optimism. And the following:

Will Ebners Hit Parade, Pain TV; Channel 32; All the time! (PDT)
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jan 27, 2010 3:16 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
It is January
Until it is proved otherwise (and believe me, it will be), the Royals are better than everyone.
by Black and Gold on Jan 27, 2010 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
to match the velour suit

Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "In the game of chess you can never let your opponent see your pieces"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 28, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
So THAT'S where rainbows come from!!!!
I always wondered. So, the pot of gold at the other end of the rainbow is really……….ewwww???
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Jan 28, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Orioles are better
though I could see them having a worse record, playing in the AL East and all.
That's the key
I answered the question “no” because I think Baltimore is a better team, or at least a higher upside one (I do tend to overvalue younger players). But the Royals could again have the better record—I almost expect they will—because of the weighted schedules.
And for those who want an infusion of talent like the Orioles got in the Bedard trade—are you willing to have Moore trade Zack for it?
Hey, can I change my screen name to "CentralChamps20??"?
by CentralChamps2009 on Jan 27, 2010 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
Oriole fan here
Love this blog btw (really, this site is awesomely hysterical, and I’ve learned quite a bit in the month or so I’ve been a member here). I know terrible GMing, and I think GMDM would give Mike Flanagan a run for his money (Flanagan’s signature move after the 70 win 2006 team: $43M to Danys Baez (I’m sure Dayton is eyeing him), Jaime Walker and Chad Bradford). The Orioles do have a nice bundle of young talent, but still have pretty serious problems. Garrett Atkins is the first baseman. As good as Cesar Izturis’s defense is, his career OBP ties him with Yu Bet. The pitching has the potential to be good someday, but I’m not sure it will be in 2010. Millwood’s FIP was around 4.8 IIRC, Guthrie’s (or Guts) FIP wasn’t pretty either, Tillman has a lot of talent but started giving up homers when he got the promotion (though is still very very young), Matusz really does look awesome, and rounding out the rotation is Brad Bergesen kind of came out of nowhere last year (he was BA’s 18th best Oriole prospect coming into 2009 and then put up 3.43 ERA, though his FIP was 4.10. Sickels compared him to Nick Blackburn, which I think most Oriole fans would take, though I think everybody reminds Sickels of a Twin player or prospect sometimes.
Anyway, I think most expect the Orioles to win between 73 to 77 games in 2010, primarily based on the performance arc of guys like Wieters, Jones, Reimold and Markakis. I’m pretty bullish on the club’s future, but am not sure if MacPhail will be able to secure the guys that the team so desperately needs (1B). And I have a bad feeling Felix Pie will ride the pines way too much in 2010.
Librarians are hiding something
I made a hypothetical offer to my friend, who is an Orioles fan, before the 09 season started
I told him I’d trade our entire team for his entire team. We’d simply fly all the players across the country and swap jerseys (Greinke included, which made me sad). The offer still stands. I’ll sign Mike Jacobs again if that sweetens the pot for you.
We didn’t talk farm systems, but I’m open to discuss it. I like our farm system (always have!), but I haven’t really evaluated yours.
by jackie ballgame on Jan 28, 2010 9:30 AM EST up reply actions
the farm
I think I’m lower on the system than most national expert types, but 12 years of losing will do that to you. The system has Brian Matusz who has come along very nicely (prolly 10th best prospect overall – he barely qualifies as a rookie too) and then 3 others who could be solid contributors: Zach Britton (top 50 talent, a lefty with good K and GB rates but not overpowering stuff), Josh Bell (received in the Sherrill trade who is as good agaist righties as he is as bad against lefties) and Jake Arrieta (top 100 talent)). After that there are few other interesting guys, but it seems like a big drop off.
I think the most interesting thing about the 2009 draft was the philosophy to go close to slot in the first round and then go overslot on several other picks. The Pirates did something similar to this.
As for your trade, I’d do it if it meant a switch of divisions too! But damn I’d love to watch Greinke every five days. That guy is a joy to watch even when he makes the Orioles look silly, which is kinda damning with faint praise.
Librarians are hiding something
Most of the guys here think we'll be lucky to get to 73-77 wins in the Central.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Orioles better
Since I’m not convinced we’ll even make it to 70 wins this year it wasn’t hard. Orioles do play in a much tougher division so it may not show in the record, but they are substantially more complete than the Royals (unless you subscribe to “quantity over quality”, in which case our plethora of outfielders beats their smaller set of actually good outfielders).
Murphy was an optimist.
by The Ol' Perfesser on Jan 28, 2010 4:07 PM EST reply actions
It was painful, but I voted "no"
The Royals have better pitching, but the Orioles have much better position players. Admitting the Orioles are probably better hurt, though, because I live in DC, and sorta hate the Orioles. Camden is nice, though, and I go up there for at least one Royals game each year.
O's on Verge of break through
Their farm system is about to produce a great rotation in Matusz Tillman Arrietta, Bergessen, Reinhold is a solid hitter, Weiters will be elite- They could be new Tampa in 2 years. I’d trade teams in a second with Baltimore


















