In Signing With Phillies Cliff Lee Destroys His Legacy
by Freneau on Dec 14, 2010 12:54 AM EST
in Kansas City Royals News
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PrintIn choosing the easy way out by signing with Philadelphia, Cliff Lee's quest for a World Series ring has suddenly become hollow. Pedro Martinez would not have done this. Doc Gooden would not have done this. Sandy Koufax would not have done this. Those guys, were real men. They would not have wanted to pitch with Roy Halladay. They would have wanted to beat him.
To be truly great, you have to win with your own team. In taking the sidekick route, Cliff Lee revealed that he isn't serious about working. When the going got tough, Cliff Lee ran away.
His legacy is forever destroyed. Instead of sticking it out and winning a championship for the people of Texas, Lee checked out. To make matters worse, he's from Arkansas, which is basically the same thing. Such a bitter Lee-trayal.
I blame today's hip-hop AAU culture. These kids today... they're all friends. They become "boys" (that's what they call it) when they are 12 and it's all a game to them. It's terrible. Things were better when guys only ran into each other at the paternity tests. When I look at today's sports world. I'm sickened. The greatest moment of my childhood was when [insert name] did [insert insane thing]. That was the spectacle of human greatness instantiated.
Don't blame Cliff Lee though. He really doesn't know what he's doing. He's surrounded by a team of yes men that are telling him we'll all praise him.
How wrong they are.
Instead of choosing to be truly great, instead of choosing to be the man, Cliff Lee revealed himself to be a little punk. Instead of .... blah blah blah something phallic and psycho-sexual he blah blah blah something considered feminine.
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As opposed to joining CC Sabathia and the Yankees?
I get the Lebron parallel. I just don’t think it’s remotely accurate. There was no “decision,” he didn’t turn his back on his hometown team (he doesn’t have one), and he won’t be on the field at the same time as Halladay.
Dear Alex Gordon:
I still think you will be awesome, but for the love of God, please stop getting hurt.
Sincerely,
RF
you have to be the MAN in the dugout, in the showers, at all times
let’s say there’s a brawl in milwaukee in august, who do the phillies look to?
there has to be an alpha dog
If I may say so, sir
You’re on quite a roll with these recent posts. You truly have your fingers on America’s sporting pulse.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 14, 2010 1:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nice work Will.....
gimme more racist undertones!
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Dec 14, 2010 5:42 AM EST up reply actions
And naming after his favorite confederate generals
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Dec 14, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Nicely done.....its like improv comedy.....
The topic is race relations and stereotypes, the genre is sporting journalism, done in the style of stand up comedy…..ANNNND ACT! Screw Drew Carey and those that sully the memories of coke fueled laugh fests at the millions of late 80s era chuckle huts….those were the days.
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Dec 14, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
That is probably the dumbest argument I have heard. If there is a brawl in Milwaukee, one of the bullpen guys are going to hit prince fielder in the head for retribution. Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay aren’t leaving the bullpen to get involved.
Cliff Lee turned his back on tens of millions of dollars because he is not playing for the money. This can’t be compared to LeBron “Benedict (beenadick) Arnold” James. He’s not from Texas, he didn’t come up through their system. He was a hired gun there. When they acquired him, they knew he was gone. The guy loved Philadelphia and getting to bat in the NL. Good for him.
by fightwookies on Dec 14, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Though this deal is actually set up for Lee to earn money...
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
Haha yea I know it was a lighthearted post, it's just that I'd actually heard the argument that he pulled a Lebron from other sources as well.
And I know that RR loves sarcasm, it’s just not really my cup of tea, so to speak. But it’s not my site, and I love the info here, so no biggie. I do look forward to reading on here about how this changes the Greinke picture.
Dear Alex Gordon:
I still think you will be awesome, but for the love of God, please stop getting hurt.
Sincerely,
RF
Its complete BS.
I lived in Philly for a couple of years. Moved there from NY to get away from the city years ago, and absolutely loved it. I can’t imagine how great it would have been to live there with Cliff Lee money. It’s the 4th biggest market in the country, and he can help them win another WS there, or two. Why NOT go, where you represent the only piece missing to get them there again. The man is only thinking about winning, and his wife, who doesn’t want to live in NY. This way, they get all the benefit of NY without living there because it’s only an hour and a half drive to the Apple from Philly. I still miss my time in Philly, and I’m jealous of Lee, for getting to move there, on a magic carpet ride.
"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~
That is one badass rotation Philly has.
They have to be the favorite to win the World Series at this point.
it's a curse, not a blessing
who will start opening day? the manager will be in an impossible situation and the lack of a clear hierarchy= mental chaos
i expect charlie manual will be fired by May 1st
If only they had the abundance of veteran leadership that having both Francoeur and Kendall provides.
Alas, they will be adrift in a vast ocean with no steady hand to guide them. The dead will look on in envy of the Royals and their wealth of gritty leaders.
Alex English was pretty coo'.
by 13194013 on Dec 14, 2010 2:26 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Trade Deadline
provides an opportunity to pick up some veteran leadership from the Royals organization.
(in all seriousness)
it’s a good rotation, but Hamels and Roy-O are both in their own ways over-rated
Hamels only has 3 pitches in MLB the Show!
How can he be good? I love facing him.
Dear Alex Gordon:
I still think you will be awesome, but for the love of God, please stop getting hurt.
Sincerely,
RF
by RoyalFlush on Dec 14, 2010 2:06 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, unless Dominic Brown becomes a superstar overnight
Signing Lee just makes up for losing Werth by a couple of wins. Oh, and every one of their core positoin players is firmly in their decline phase.
But the managed to win the WS without Lee, right?
oh.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 14, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Apparently Jayson Werth was their #5 pitcher.
Lee replaces Moyer, Kendrick, and Nate Robertson. Those pitchers combined for 1 WAR. Or if you think Blanton is worse than Kendrick, add 1.2 WAR to that total, so 2.2. Lee was worth 7.1 last year. That’s roughly a 5 win improvement from their pitching staff. Which is what they are losing from Werth. Whatever his replacement does will be the surplus. If the Phillies can manage to make the playoffs, their pitching staff makes them the favorites. In a short playoff series, pitching matters more than hitting.
Your snark is getting the better of you sometimes. I mean, it’s not like the Phillies were that far away last year, yet you treat my comment like I was saying the Royals were the favorites.
Really didn't think it was that snarky
Certainly wasn’t mocking you intentionally. Sorry. It’s a great move, but the idea that they’re going to be tons better in talent in 2011 than in 2010 is problematic, if understandable.
I was thinking Werth is around 4 wins, Lee around 6. Figure in decline for Rollins, Utley, Ibanez (sigh), Halladay, Oswalt…. They’re probably at about the same place. Which is the best team in the East.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 14, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
If you can’t hunt with the big dogs, you get up on the porch with the puppies
by BlueEyes_Austin on Dec 14, 2010 1:09 AM EST reply actions
Wow, let the bidding war start for Grienke.
Good news for the Royals.
Go Royals!
I almost, almost, want him to go to the Phillies, just for the hell of it.
Hensley "Bam Bam" Meulens!
Better than you! Mejor que tú! Beter dan jij! 良い場合も! Mehor than abo!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 14, 2010 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
Amaro's not stopping until he gets Greinke for his fifth starter
by swing and a miss on Dec 14, 2010 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
Ibanzez + Blanton!
Hensley "Bam Bam" Meulens!
Better than you! Mejor que tú! Beter dan jij! 良い場合も! Mehor than abo!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 14, 2010 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
(is anyone else loving the analysis that this is b/c yankee fans are mean?)
yea, they’re really soft and supportive in philly
Well, a Yankee fan did spit on Cliff Lee’s wife. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if that had something to do with it.
Hensley "Bam Bam" Meulens!
Better than you! Mejor que tú! Beter dan jij! 良い場合も! Mehor than abo!
"The trouble with baseball is that it is not played the year round." - Gaylord Perry
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 14, 2010 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
Ya I can believe it was a factor.
I think the wives have more of a say in this than people think. And Cliff Lee did have a pretty good run in Philly once already.
Dear Alex Gordon:
I still think you will be awesome, but for the love of God, please stop getting hurt.
Sincerely,
RF
Yeah he did have more success in Philly than in Texas
Plus maybe he’s really keen on hitting in the NL, who knows.
Now who’s going to start games to be featured in future Royals rain delays?
by swing and a miss on Dec 14, 2010 2:28 AM EST up reply actions
This is classic
In all seriousness, got to believe that this helps the Royals much. Believe my Nats just left the Greinke derby now that the Rangers may be a bit more interested in paying a higher price.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
A final comment from your friendly neighborhood Nats fan
You know, quality stuff like this makes me want to forget you guys singled Strasburg to death in that day game and have the hated Aaron Crow in your system.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
Curious about
the Aaron Crow comment. Did he do something in college to beat a DC area college team or something?
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
I'm assuming it's because the Nats drafted him originally
but he didn’t end up signing with them, and “pulled a Hochevar” for a year, i.e. played independent league ball so his skills could evaporate, never to truly return.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 14, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
I think that's right
though they can’t be too mad anymore since Crow’s sitting out a year seems to be the lead cause in his underwhelming performance so far.
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Dec 15, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Good stuff
This was funny, Will.
And the sun shines a little brighter this morning b/c Cliff Lee left $50m on the table to play somewhere that he wanted to play. It has nothing to do with the Yankees, everything to do with not chasing the money (though the two are certainly related.
Totally hypothetical
Say Greinke comes to Dayton and says, “I like it here, I’ll extend for $100/5 like Cliff did.” Do we take it? Seven more years of Zack—but he might get hurt and might be on the decline during the last two or so.
I say we take it.
"Crimes don't pay no one but the lawyers." --Last words of executed murderer Ernest Gaither Jr., 1947
So I go read the SB nation story
and discover it’s not 5/100, but a minimum of $120m and a max of $135m over six years. He didn’t really leave that much money on the table. Would you extend Zack for $135/6? I’d consider trading him in that case.
"Crimes don't pay no one but the lawyers." --Last words of executed murderer Ernest Gaither Jr., 1947
Still, remember this next time Adrian Gonzalez says
“I really wanted to stay in San Diego for cheap, but the union wouldn’t let me!”
Do what you want, just don’t give us that B.S.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Dec 14, 2010 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
I would
they won’t
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
That's paying your best player
more than a quarter, close to a third, of your total payroll. Is that sustainable? I guess since the Royals’ best players are all going to be making the minimum for several years, it might be. It still seems like that’s too much of the budget to devote to one player, who might get hurt. Makes sense to diffuse the risk among five guys, two of whom will flame out, two of whom will be OK, and one of whom will be really good.
"Crimes don't pay no one but the lawyers." --Last words of executed murderer Ernest Gaither Jr., 1947
You have to bank
on the payroll going up sometime. If the Royals were winning, the ticket base would significantly increase I think. It would be a serious risk, but might be manageable.
This is kinda brilliant.
It’s making me even more sad, but it’s still brilliant.
Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.
"I've had people walk out on me before, but not when I was being so charming."
Ha ha ha....
Good work, young William.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
He's gunning for
Tim Lincecum.
He doesn’t want Cain. He has already outdueled Cain. That right there’s how you know he’s going to challenge Halladay for the #1 slot on the Phillies. He’s gunning for Lincecum.
Wow
I actually thought I was on Bleacher Report for a minute. In other words, well done.
Overgay is Destiny
by DCRoyals on Dec 14, 2010 9:47 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
+1
Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity
by Old Man Duggan on Dec 14, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Will,
you had me at: “Things were better when guys only ran into each other at the paternity tests.”
The prophecy has been fulfilled.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Dec 14, 2010 9:48 AM EST reply actions
agreed.
Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity
by Old Man Duggan on Dec 14, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
I can never stay in character long enough to write something like this
Well done, Will.
Although I could’ve used a few references to Lee’s family. Talking about how you want the best for them, they’re in your thoughts, etc. I guess thats a whole other thing though.
So King James
Will be taking his talents back to the shores of Lake Erie?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
Will: another virtuoso performance
This site doesn’t need anymore WAR references, or war, for that matter. Way to hang your ass out over the edge and let the cold breezes do what they may.
Sorry for the mixed metaphor.
"Shot by my own men."
Will you really need to come the F down
Do you need to write about everything off the top of your head with such a negative perspective?
Lee signed with a team HE PLAYED FOR and wanted to be part of again.How is his legacy destroyed? What a dumb statement.
And btw, Pedro DID sign with Philly just to win a ring. WTF are you talking about?
If you are unemployed there are countless of other sites to scour. I don’t even like coming here anymore if all the fanposts are authored by you when you are being extremely critical of seemingly everything
WE get it, Francour isn’t good and is overpaid. Whatever, everyone was saying the same thing about Pods and Farny and we ended up getting decent prospects for them. Maybe we can do the same with him..
by GobbleforCyoung on Dec 14, 2010 3:16 PM EST reply actions
Wow.
Point. Missed.
Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity
by Old Man Duggan on Dec 14, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Missed as emphatically
as a wild, thrashing Francoeur swing at a fastball a foot off the plate.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 14, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
x
We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars... But we wont, and we're slowly learning that fact... and we're very very pissed off --- Tyler Durden
by averagegatsby on Dec 15, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
I gotta start previewing pictures
We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars... But we wont, and we're slowly learning that fact... and we're very very pissed off --- Tyler Durden
by averagegatsby on Dec 15, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Holy cow
I don’t know that I’ve ever seen anyone stitch themselves into a clown suit like that. How did he zip himself up?
The internet is awesome.
by big matt on Dec 14, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Well, you haven't been here long enough, then...
That post began quite a running meme here at RR. Just put “I dare you to challenge this” in the search box (top right) and you can witness its glorious history.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 14, 2010 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
Glad you’ve got a long memory.
Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity
by Old Man Duggan on Dec 14, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure you've been asked this before, but...
What’s a Cyoung?
Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity
by Old Man Duggan on Dec 14, 2010 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
Wow Will...
I enjoy reading your posts and agree with most of what you say but I’m not sure there has been a worse post on this site. Your logic is completely flawed. It really sounds like you are just a pissed off Rangers fan.
Maybe that was sarcasm...
WITHIN the larger sarcasm of the post. Hmmmm.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 14, 2010 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Has to be.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
I think this is a compliment
and sort of the point, which for you has gone flying over, then back over, then back the way it originally came
It really sounds like you are just a pissed off Rangers fan
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Dec 15, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
sorry, i shouldn't be piling on
this is meant for all those who responded critically negative, when they should have been taking another look to see whether it was a forest or just a bunch of trees.
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Dec 15, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
He's Pissed Off But He Must Be A Yankees Fan
I stipulate that I am a Jays fan, but I drop in here from time to time, I enjoy this site and the mostly thoughtful opinions.
If this was my post, and I was a Royals fan, I would be writing about doing back flips about what I now can get for Greinke. I can absolutely pillage the farm systems of either the Yankees or the Rangers or any National League East team that decides to try to hang in against the Phillies. The last thing I would do is slag Lee.
I’m sure it was some agent, or the Royals themselves that started the Greinke to Toronto rumours, but no way the Jays were ever giving up Snider and Drabek or any other combo of blue chip MLB ready to go pitchers and/or position players. With the deepest young quality pitching in baseball, why trade a ton of talent for an expensive and older version of what you already have? It never made any sense.
The Yankees system is weak, Texas is loaded with talent, that’s who I would be talking to about Greinke if I were the Royal’s GM.
Now, if you want to tell me what it would take for Alex Gordon, I’m listening. Just don’t be goofy about it all, like you were about Greinke.
And, oh yeah, let’s all enjoy the downfall of the NY Evil Empire.
I may not be a Royals fan but I love Royals Review.
I could cry with joy at seeing the lost mill about, fully entrenched in their belief that everything they read is true.
Alex English was pretty coo'.
Wow
Will is having an historic blogging offseason. The best in the history of whatever.
The WAR folks like yunel apparently. i know this, bobby cox hated going to war with this guy. ~Jon Heyman
by TheBravestWay To Block A Decent Prospect on Dec 15, 2010 1:16 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Phillies fan checking in...
This post is legen….wait for it….dary.
Well done. I lol’ed.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Skip Bayless is such a tool...
Its hard to believe that his brother is the exact opposite of him… If you are curious as to he is, the world famous chef Rick Bayless you may have saw him on Top Chef Masters, If I ever go to Chicago I am going to his restaurant… Crazy though how a pair of brothers get to the “top” of their professions in completely different areas of expertise.
We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars... But we wont, and we're slowly learning that fact... and we're very very pissed off --- Tyler Durden
by averagegatsby on Dec 15, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Another Phils fan
Joined just to rec and join the chorus telling you how awesome this post is.
If you had a list of things that are good...
…(cancer cure, Gandhi, Antoine Dodson, etc.) this post would be more good than many of those other good things.
The greatest moment of my childhood was when [insert name] did [insert insane thing].
by 2motley4thetitle on Dec 15, 2010 2:51 PM EST reply actions
Lees Legacy
At least he has one to destroy. Why not a story on when Dayton Moore is going to acquire a free agent or make a trade for a player with no past ties to the Atlanta Braves.This guy is getting to be a joke. All this hype about their loaded Farm System…I have heard it all before.
He's back.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
Cliff Lee
Sir, you are a complete idiot trying to comparee Cliff Lee to Lebron James. Lee chose Philadelphia because he had a positive experience there and never really wanted to leave in the first place. He also chose the Phillies because he and his wife loved the people and the city. You fail to mention that he is not a selfish athlete merely going after the cash, very much unlike Lebron. He chose family and quality of life over the dollar and should be praised for that.
Lee makes any team better, lebron knew he could not win on his own play and carry a team to a championship. Lee simply wants to be part of a great staff, and now he is ! so zip it Stupid.
Will, you can never close comments for this post
I want to see how long random ones like this keep coming in.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 16, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Don't Get Out
Much, do you, Bobby?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Dec 16, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
The best part is that he joined not only RR
but apparently the SB Nation network just to tell Will how “stupid” he is. This is his one and only comment.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 16, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
I LOVE LAMP!
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Dec 16, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Intelligence is strong with this one
We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars... But we wont, and we're slowly learning that fact... and we're very very pissed off --- Tyler Durden
by averagegatsby on Dec 17, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
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