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Around SBN: Why Hockey Fans Should Root For Devils Vs. Kings

Am I the only one extremely excited about the prospects of an NBA franchise in the Sprint Center? It's getting big national play but virtually no media coverage by our resident talking heads, save for this article from The Pitch.

Then again, it shouldn't be surprising. The same people who pushed hard for the Sprint Center haven't covered its failure to attract an NBA or an NHL team at all.

I for one welcome our new Hornet overlords.

over 1 year ago Soriajersey_tiny JobDDT 41 comments 0 recs  | 

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The NBA will not surivie in KC

Ticket prices are too expensive, and there is a lack of big corporations that call KC home to buy up suites/luxury tickets.

IMO< the arena is fine as it is…as a concert/special sporting event venue that is in use 100-125 days a year.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Dec 6, 2010 6:59 PM EST reply actions  

Okay

Let’s at least try it out though. It ain’t my money.

FWIW, the suites are already sold out in SC.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Too expensive?

What is with people thinking the NBA games are so expensive, but then saying “I want hockey”. Go look at the price of hockey tickets. But first, if you want hockey you got it, there is a CHL team right in your backyard you can go watch. Sure “AA” hockey is awful and the players are mostly going nowhere, but they like to fight and they will definitely hit on your girlfriend. I can sit in great seats at Target Center to see a team beat the Twolves for 30-40 dollars a ticket. Granted the Twolves tickets do cost less than LA who avg 95 a seat, but I think KC prices would rival MN prices before they would LA’s. And believe me, when you see Kobe, Lebron, etc in person you will not leave complaining you paid too much. It is worth seeing in person.

Chris Paul will be leaving the Hornets soon, leaving them with just about nothing to offer, so when I heard the Hornets might pack up and move, I was not too excited to hear KC mentioned. It would basically be this years Cavs. But the great thing about the NBA compared to the MLB is when you get a #1 pick that guy can be a real game changer the next season. By the time KC had a team there will probably be a hard salary cap and they already have structured rookie salaries. That gives teams a fighting chance to build from the ground up. OKC has a great owner but that is exactly what any team could do given a small market.

by RoyalsnMN on Dec 7, 2010 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

But is the average NHL team in as bad of a situation now as the NBA?

I think the new CBA will get it figured out (because the players are gonna get taken to the cleaners), but I don’t like the idea of a soft cap sport as opposed to a hard cap sport, and I’m not sure a hard cap will happen because obviously the big gun teams will all be against it (and the luxury tax does help some teams).

Additionally, one great thing about the NHL is that they don’t have a draft lottery. The problem with the lottery is that in exchange for getting teams to “not tank” games, you also don’t ensure teams who need big time help are the ones who get it. Basketball skills are highly identifiable relative to baseball and football skills, but hockey is easier to evaluate talent in as well.

by WURoyal on Dec 8, 2010 1:05 AM EST up reply actions  

But is the average NHL team in as bad of a situation now as the NBA?

I think the league overall is hurting pretty bad. And salaries seem to be going back to crazy town for whatever reason.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 8, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

As long as Seattle is NBA-less

I don’t see any team moving to KC. The former home of the Sonics has so many other factors going for it that KC just doesn’t have.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 6, 2010 7:18 PM EST reply actions  

They don't have an NBA-ready arena

David Stern has said Key Arena is obsolete.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Steve Ballmer has enough money and political clout

that he should be able to get an arena renovation/new arena if he really wants a team. And selling off $2 billion in Microsoft stock should provide him plenty of cash to get a package deal done for the Hornets and the renovations to Key.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 6, 2010 11:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps

But he’s not going to build an arena out of his own pocket, and I don’t see much public enthusiasm in this economy for building new arenas – and it would take years before an arena could get approved and built. The Hornets are hemorraging money and their situation needs to be solved soon.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 7, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I dont think KC can support another major franchise

Too little money being spread too many ways already with college, NFL, MLB, and MLS. (hah)

by Boots 58 on Dec 6, 2010 7:36 PM EST reply actions  

hockey please

R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
http://twitter.com/doublestix

by doublestix on Dec 6, 2010 7:40 PM EST reply actions  

I don't get the argument that KC can't support a 3rd team...

1.) The Royals have been in the dumps for years and are near the back end of the league as far as attendance, yet they’re still making money. I feel like people see the Royals attendance numbers and say oh well KC is small so they can’t draw well. I’d say the teams poor performance is more a reflection on the attendance then the fact that KC is a relatively small market. In the 70s and 80s the Royals were towards the top of the league in attendance.

So if people in KC aren’t going to the Royals games then why can’t they spend a few dollars and go see a good Basketball team?

2.) There are a number of smaller or similar size cities that have 3 sports franchises.

KC Metro Population: 2.05 million

Pittsburgh (2.46 million) – Slightly larger than the KC Metro has the Steelers, Pirates and Penguins

Denver (2.55 million) – Denver has not only 3 major sports franchises but 4! The Avalanche, The Nuggets, The Rockies and The Broncos

Cleveland (2.09 million) – Cleveland, the closest on this list has 3 sports franchises. The Browns, The Cavs and The Indians.

St. Louis (2.82 million) – The other major metro area in Missouri. They currently support the Cardinals, Blues and Rams

Theres several examples of why KC could support a basketball team just fine.

3.) The other cities in contention have several downsides to them. Seattle has yet to get its act together for an arena, thats why the sonics left in the first place. Anaheim is pretty much LA, does LA really need 3 NBA teams? Las Vegas has always been on a professional sports black list it seems like.

If KC could get an ownership group together, I don’t see why you couldn’t possibly run a successful NBA franchise in KC. With all that said, i’d probably prefer a hockey team but I’ll take what i can get instead of an endless stream of Taylor Swift concerts.

by TheHouseFrankBuiltLiterally on Dec 6, 2010 8:18 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Devils Advocate

1) You said it…the Royals ALREADY draw for shit. The fact that they still make $$ is a testament to revenue sharing, not due to extreme revenue @ the gate. If anything, every member of this board should be vehemently opposed to a 3rd team in KC because it very well may KILL the Royals, especially if said 3rd team comes in & wins right away…why go see the loveable losers when you can go see the Chiefs/NBA/NHL team that is contending?

2) Those cities you mentioned are home to multiple major-corporations. Now, the economy of the world has changed, so I don’t know if corporations are going to be shelling out $25K + for season tickets 5 years from now, the way the have in the past, but for now it is still a factor. Sure we have Sprint, AMC, Wadell-Reed (I think they are based here), Hallmark and a handful of others, but I think all 4 of those cities you cited have a stronger Fortune 500 presence than KC – though, I am not researching this at all, I may be wrong.

3) You are right about this one…KC definitely has a nicer arena than any other that is vacant, and it is probably better than a handful of current NBA/NHL arenas.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Dec 7, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions  

We've been teased a few teams

And I haven’t gotten my hopes up for an NHL or NBA team yet. But this looks like a real golden opportunity here. KC should and I believe will be numero uno as a destination spot for relocation. The biggest reason why is Sprint Center. Its a fantastic new arena with a well-known operator in AEG and they have been willing to offer a pretty lucrative deal to teams in the past. We’re a decent sized market with the closest teams being in Chicago in OKC, giving us a big territory to draw from. We’re college basketball crazy (which might be seen as a negative..for example Charlotte struggles big-time).

The other candidates would be:

Las Vegas – they have the Thomas & Mack Center which is dated and have talked about a new arena, but it has fallen through with Vegas going through recession hell right now. Plus the NBA seems wary about going to a gambling mecca. And Vegas is a tiny market with no ancillary market.

Anaheim – they have a pretty new arena and a large population base to draw from. They’d also cannibalize the Lakers/Clippers market. Still, its a huge market. I think they’re the most serious contender to KC.

The less serious contenders:

St. Louis – don’t seem much interested. Its a hockey town. If some local owner made a big push I can see them being more of a candidate.

Seattle – until they get talking about a new arena, they’re a non-starter.

San Jose – they had a committed owner to bringing at team there and a great new arena, but they’d be cannibalizing the Warriors market, an already tenuous market.

Louisville – new arena, new market, but probably too small and too close to the struggling Pacers.

New Orleans was always kind of an iffy market to begin with. Its kinda sad to see the team not being able to make it there, but if they do move, I would love to have that team and I think we would have a very good chance of landing them provided some local ownership group steps up.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2010 9:59 PM EST reply actions  

St. Louis has a willing owner, as I understand it. Haven’t the Taylor’s (Enterprise Rent-A-Car) sought a team for some time?

by WURoyal on Dec 6, 2010 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

That would be a huge point for them then

AFAIK, no one has publicly stepped up in KC as a potential owner, although I have heard rumors of some group getting together.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree with most everything, but

the Hornets were very successful for a time in Charlotte before their slimy owner relocated them to New Orleans. They burned a lot of good fans with that and the Bobcats haven’t been able to regain the entire market.

I kind of think Seattle would be the same way, at least for as long as David Stern is in charge.

FREE BRAYAN PENA.

by JobDDT on Dec 6, 2010 11:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Sprint Center as it is

Apparently it’s making the city a lot of money with things as they are. I’m not so sure the city is in such bad shape without a team.

But I live in St. Louis where the city could use some money to fix the freakin’ water mains that break every week. Maybe they should kick out the cardinals and host Kenny Chesnea every week.

by thehopper on Dec 6, 2010 10:41 PM EST reply actions  

The Power and Light development hasn’t succeeded and costs the city millions a year, according to projections.

by WURoyal on Dec 6, 2010 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Those are two different entities FWIW

Cordish (which owns P&L) has blamed AEG (which runs Sprint Center) for failing to land a tenant, claiming it has lost P&L millions.

What has probably had a bigger impact on P&L is the recession, and its failure to land the retail it wanted, as well as scrapping the residential portion of the development.

But yea, SC has supposedly done well with concerts and no sports team. Still, I have a hard time believing they’d turn down 40 dates a year with 12-18,000 people.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2010 11:07 PM EST up reply actions  

With a 42-month-supply of condos downtown (at the current sale rate) as it is

the residential portion would have REALLY been a boondoggle. Cordish ought to try lowering their rent levels a little and focus on getting a better nucleus of retail down there. I’ve never understood how it’s a good thing for commercial real estate to just sit vacant for years at a time rather than lowering rents 20-40% to get somebody in there paying something for the space.

I don’t think there’s any doubt that a team would help the Sprint Center and provide a good residual boost to the bars and restaurants in the P&L. But I doubt it would have much effect, if any, on the retail the P&L still needs.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 6, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends on what they would have priced it at

Downtown residential is currently at 95% capacity, so there certainly seems to be demand for rentals.

I agree, I don’t think a team would help/hurt P&L much…it was more a CYA statement by Cordish for f’ing up the retail portion and delaying the opening of the entire project which probably cost more money than anything.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 7, 2010 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Believe me

with what Cordish would have priced them at, they’d still be languishing. And pricing is not necessarily the problem—there are just NO buyers out there.

Where are you getting the 95% figure? Everything I’ve seen puts it at closer to a 10% vacancy rate.

http://www.special-assets.com/2010/05/kansas-city-2010-q1-local-apartment-research/
http://www.redcapitalgroup.com/Research/Reports/RCH-MO-001_KansasCity_1Q10.pdf

Granted, those figures are about six months old, but I can’t imagine there has been a huge bump in rental interest since then. There are also a few new buildings coming online within the next year that will dump about 200-300 new rental units on the market.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 7, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Your numbers are for the entire metro area

I’m talking about just downtown. Its at 91% occupancy

Here is the Downtown Council’s Data:

http://216.119.82.16/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/2010-Housing-Data-Sheet-3rd-Quarter1.pdf

There is a demand that isn’t being met IMO.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 7, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Interesting

I’m surprised to see the River Market at 98% occupancy. I thought there were still quite a few empty units in Market Station.

I’m pretty skeptical of their sale numbers. That’s got to be some pretty old data.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 7, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

P&L failing to meet expectations, but Sprint Center doing very well

As of mid-year 2010, Sprint Center was the 3rd “busiest” arena in the United States.

Of course, having a pro sports team would bring in a lot more revenue for both SC and P&L. Also FWIW, it seems that most TIF type projects in the metro have failed to meet projections.

by Tito42 on Dec 7, 2010 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the entire purpose of the league taking over the team

is to keep them in New Orleans until they can find a buyer committed to keeping them there. Stern has been very… stern… about his desire to keep a team in New Orleans as a matter of civic duty.

The Hornets’ problems aren’t their own, really. They’re George Shinn’s. He’s not trying to sell the team because the team is losing money, but because HE needs the money to deal with his own personal BS.

My new blog: Those Other Guys. Critiques welcome.

by jonfmorse on Dec 7, 2010 8:10 AM EST reply actions  

Kansas City would, by far, be the smallest three team major city. Without a major public transportation system, plus the fact that Kansas City is already smitten with college basketball, I don’t see it happening at all.

I’ve heard Chicago as a potential destination for another NBA team. If there were any justice in the world, Seattle would be the only destination considered, condition of Key Arena be damned.

Proud member of the Toledo Computer Club since 2010.

by KeepItCopacetic on Dec 7, 2010 10:00 AM EST reply actions  

Actually, without a new arena, Seattle doesn’t deserve an NBA team at all.

You have to support your teams to deserve them.

by WURoyal on Dec 7, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

For the record, I'd actually prefer to have the Kings come home

They’re my favorite team and it’d just feel right to have the Kings, Chiefs and Royals all in the same town again.

Clippers and Blake Griffin would be nice, too.

FREE BRAYAN PENA.

by JobDDT on Dec 7, 2010 11:12 PM EST reply actions  

If the Clippers can get a serious post defender they should be INSANE in a couple years.

by WURoyal on Dec 8, 2010 1:06 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll Second The

Kings coming back. It was insane to move to Sacramento in the first place. They wasted some good basketball on that town.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 8, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

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