Farnsworth to get a chance at starting
Didn't like Kyle Farnsworth as a relief pitcher? Hang on, he might be a starting pitcher for the Royals this year.
"Kyle Farnsworth is competing for a job in the rotation," pitching coach Bob McClure revealed Wednesday.
That's right, the big right-hander will at least get a chance to show what he can do as a starter in Spring Training.
"We're going to lengthen him out and see how it goes," McClure said. "Because what he showed me last year was the ability to back off a little bit and not pitch with his hair on fire. And, to be a starter, you have to be able to just kind of go pitch-by-pitch."
Click the link to read the rest.
I really hope he is our ace
over 2 years ago
focs
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Comments
I actually like this idea
Feel free to lambast me now.
by Royals Nation on Feb 11, 2010 4:55 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
It doesn't hurt
Because it won’t happen.
I just think it is symptomatic of the Royal’s problems that will give a shot to a 34 year old career reliever who survives purely on a fastball. He’s suddenly added 2 good offspeed pitches to his arsenal? Really? This at the same time as they have signed (rightly) a whole bunch of guys like Campillo and Thompson who actually might be worth a look as the 5th guy in the rotation.
It’s like Teahen to 2nd last year. It’s pissing about for the sake of it when they should have far higher priorities.
Sigh
Ladies and gentlemen, your Kansas City Royals!
by cookierojas73 on Feb 11, 2010 6:43 AM EST up reply actions
If McClure actually does get this to work,
he will be the greatest pitching coach of all time.
by BrRoyal on Feb 11, 2010 8:30 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Better than Duncan across the state?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
It will be good for team morale
that Farnsworth will be blowing his own leads, not the other starters’.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Feb 11, 2010 8:54 AM EST reply actions 10 recs
KC only turns bad relievers into starters.
If stretching him out ultimately lands him the mop-up role, I’m all for it.
by Trey Hillman's Chin on Feb 11, 2010 9:08 AM EST reply actions
I don't see the downside
Might as well try to get some value for him.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Feb 11, 2010 9:36 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
It also could be some CoachSpeak
maybe Farnsy asked to try his hand at starting, so McClure would rather “give him a shot” by “letting him compete” than say “no, dumbass. you’re not even a very good reliever, what makes you think you could be a starter?”
alternatively, i do like the theory below that changing his pitching style may make him a more effective pitcher.
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "...And like all my plans, it's so simple an idiot could have devised it!"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 11, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
In theory I like this
What’s the reason that his fastballs get mashed? They are very fast, but also very straight. As a starter, he’s going to have to back off and not throw as hard. I’ve heard other pitchers say that when they back off on the fastball, they get a little more movement on it. Maybe that’s enough to make Farnsworth into a decent pitcher, or maybe this is the entire scheme by McClure to get him to back off on his fastball as a reliever, but in order to get him to back off, he’s been told he’s being tried for the rotation. I like it.
by AxDxMx on Feb 11, 2010 9:52 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
If you can't beat them, join them, right?
That’s the theory here I think… GMDM realizes that he wasted money on Farnsworth, now he’s going to try to see if he can recover that… but he’ll also put him out there for 145 pitch bullpen sessions. Watch out Farnsi, your arm is next!
If he does back off, it may help some movement… does he have any other pitch that is MLB average?
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Bright side:
This lands him on the DL much faster.
Don't Stop Believing!
by KC Chris on Feb 11, 2010 9:54 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
This is where that investment on Kendall
really pays off.
by bas on Feb 11, 2010 9:57 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Right idea...
wrong reliever…
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Feb 11, 2010 11:50 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
disagree
soria would never hold up as a starter and is a valuable commodity no matter what role he pitches in. farnsworth has a great frame, good mechanics, and is here on a 1-year deal. we lose almost nothing if this doesn’t work out.
i love love love this idea. best thing we’ve done this offseason aside from signing Arguelles. he added two pitches last year with the 2-seamer and the cutter, and can still throw the gas as well as the great breaking ball.
baseball rules.
That's fine
But McLure justifies it by going on about Soria’s value as a closer. Which is just retarded.
If you think his arm will fall off, fine. I can live with that. But pretending he has more value as a reliever than a starter is dumb.
soria would never hold up as a starter
I don’t know what evidence we have that supports that notion.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I think we can trust the Royals scouts on this one
they’re pretty much the cream of the crop

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 11, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You will remember watching Farnsworth's first start as a Royal...
for the rest of your life.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Feb 11, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That's not necessarily a good thing
I still vividly remember his first relief appearance as a Royal, too.
That seems like a more appropriate name.
by CentralChamps20?? on Feb 11, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
oh yeah......
Let’s make him pitch more innings so he can give up more homeruns!
It’s the Royal Way!
- …. .- – … .— …. .- – … …. . … .- .. -..
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Feb 11, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
it's my opinion
i’ve been saying this for a while. and i’ve read some places that don’t like his mechanics, especially his follow through. put him in the pen, let him throw 70-80 innings. that has always been my stance on this.
baseball rules.
I sort of agree
Farnsworth aside, most ace relievers could probably stand to work a LOT more — I think 100 innings of work isn’t unreasonable for Soria, and if used properly (ahem), i.e., up by 3 or less, he gets two innings of work, he could be way more valuable. Of course, that goes for pretty much all reliever.
And if he can’t handle that workload, then he’s really, really overrated and should definitely be traded.
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 11, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
At least we know no one will charge the mound
If they do…they will get POWER BOMBED
At least it might get him out of the bullpen.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
by Warden11 on Feb 11, 2010 12:27 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
i'm really happy that the Royals are focusing so much on who can be a 5/6 starter
when we have a 12-deep log-jam in our OF depth chart. Maybe this means that Rick Ankiel will be in the bullpen if the OF doesn’t work out for him.
Waiting for April.
by DC Royal on Feb 11, 2010 2:19 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
that makes sense
“well, he said he’d like to try pitching again, so we’ll let him work through it in spring training. and may. maybe june….”
There's nothing to lose here
This is the kind of strange thinking the Royals should be trying to do on a daily basis. Of course, this particular one seems more like a 3rd-grader who’s been told, “it’s actually OK to color outside the lines sometimes!”
Twitter: awolfson0
by awolfson on Feb 11, 2010 2:20 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
It's just plain logic
If a guy has trouble pitching as a starter, he might be better suited for the ’pen.
If a guy has trouble as a reliever, he might be better suited as a starter.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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Or in Farnsworth's case
Where he sucked as a starter, was moved to the pen because of it. 10 years is a long time, he might have figured out.
compared to the usual
i’ll take bizarre
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "...And like all my plans, it's so simple an idiot could have devised it!"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 11, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting idea that might work if Farnsworth finds a second pitch to throw to lefties
As Dave Cameron noted at Fangraphs, Farnsworth historically has shown a weak platoon split. Based on that and Farnsworth’s development of an effective two-seamer/cutter last year, Cameron thinks Farnsworth has a fighting chance to stick in the rotation.
One concern is that outside his four-seam fastball, Farnsworth really does not have a second pitch to throw to lefties. According to Fangraphs, Farnsworth’s current reportoire is four-seam fastball (51% last year), two-seamer/cutter (28% last year), and slider (21% last year). His slider has consistently been his best pitch, while the new two-seamer/cutter was effective last year. His fastball restults, however, have been average to mediocre.
In the bullpen, a second pitch against lefties does not matter much — he is only facing a few batters at a time, he almost never faces the same batter twice, and managers tend to use relievers to avoid bad platoon matchups (Jim Thome notoriously excluded). He can throw fastball after fastball at lefties. But in the rotation, he will see hitters multiple times and cannot just throw as hard as he can every time.
Generally, we know that two-seamers and sliders are not effective against opposite handed-hitters because of the way they move in on those hitters, thereby “speeding up” the swing. On the other hand, change ups, curve balls (to a lesser extent), and sometimes splitters can be effective against opposite-handed hitters because they either move away (change up) or relatively neutral (12-6 or 11-5 or 1-7 curves) . Not coincidentally, most starters throw at least one of these pitches effectively. Farnsworth does not regularly throw any of these pitches anymore, as he has flashed a change now and then but only about 1% of the time since 2002.
For the move to the rotation to succeed, it seems that Farnsworth would need to find a second pitch to throw at lefties. Cameron uses Ryan Dempster as a successful example for Farnsworth, but Dempster regularly threw an effective change up as a reliever (although he apparently scrapped the change in favor of a splitter last year). Maybe Farnsworth can improve his change up, or maybe given that his slider does not have much horizontal break, his slider can be the exception as an effective pitch to opposite handed hitters (I would like to see his platoon splits by pitch, but I am not sure where that info is freely available).
Whether Farnsworth can do that is an open question, but it should be an interesting one to answer this spring.
by Gopherballs on Feb 11, 2010 2:47 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Please post the exact thing I do second before me :(
I have hope that Farns will be able to transition as Dempster did after reading that article
It does not matter who says it as long as it gets said
The problem with the Dempster comp is that unlike Farnsworth, Dempster already had a pretty good changeup to complement his fastball/slider combo.
Yeah, I just wouldn't have posted it if I saw you already had, so no big deal
You said it better anyways
Dave makes good points
but I still have serious doubts. His straightball hasn’t been a asset since 2006, according to the lwts values, is it going to be better once he’s starting? His slider has been above average since 2007. NOt sure what’s up with the 2009 cutter numbers — those might be promising, or BIS might have misidentified a pitch.
CHONE projections a 4.22 FIP as a reliever, and applying the “general rule,” that’s about 5.22 as a starter — not necessarily replacement level, but close. It might be a worth a shot in general (certainly better than giving Maier/Kila/Fields/Rosa playing time!), but I’d rather see them give Davies, Tejeda, or Campillo each a whirl. I realize their numbers might not fit as well as Farnsworth’s, of course, so it isn’t the end of the world. But when we’re applauding Dayton for desperation moves like this, well, what more is there to say?
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 11, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
slider _hasn't_ been an asset
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 11, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
+ 1.31 wSL/C since 2002
although it was neutral last year
yeah, but the last two years it's been off
the cutter thing is curious, makes me wonder if some FB/SL were mis identified in 2009, or maybe Banny taught him his cutter?
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 11, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
per the article
McClure reintroduced Farnsworth to the two-seamer/cutter last year
I assume that is a likely explanation for the increased GB rate
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 11, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, my best guess would be that it does not work out
but it does show some creativity and as Cameron notes, there is some logic to it. Farnsworth is a sunk cost who will be gone no later than the end of the season. We know enough about him as a reliever that another year in the pen, pretty much no matter what the results, is going to change anyone’s valuation of him. If he shows something as a starter, however, the cost might not be completely sunk.
I think Davies and Tejeda are relievers long term and Campillo is an insurance policy. Tejeda is the most interesting of the group as a starter, even with my doubts that he can overcome his control problems. I would prefer to move Davies to the pen now, given his contract situation, but I could see why giving him another shot in the rotation before Farnsworth makes sense.
And I agree that when “hmm, let’s experiment with Farnsworth as a starter” is one of the more inspired ideas in an offseason, sadness immediately follows.
I agree about Davies and Tejeda likely being relievers
I just think there’s more upside to giving them time in the rotation than there is with Farns, that’s all.
part of me also thinks that no other team would ever bite on Farnsworth the starter, but that if he gets out to a good start to the year, the team could move his part of his contract for a “live arm” or something.
Cf. Cruz, Juan
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 11, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
I do kinda like the idea of putting Davies in the pen with the hope of a return to the rotation.
I seemed to help Greinke a lot.
vs RHB: 3.43 BB/9, 9.45 K/9, 41% GB%, 3.68 xFIP
vs LHB: 4.63 BB/9, 10.41 K/9, 36% GB%, 3.89 xFIP
that looks like basically no platoon split.
baseball rules.
5% difference in groundball rate is significant
and does not show up in xFIP
it’s still not a big difference. he can get lefties out. there’s no dire need to develop some changeup or splitter. a lot of pitchers have splits like this.
baseball rules.
The point is a lot of relievers dont though
A lot of relievers have bad splits vs either left or right. The Farns, apparently, does not
He can get lefties out as a reliever with one pitch
But the relevant question is how many starters have this weak of a platoon split without a serviceable change up, curve, or splitter?
As I said, maybe his slider, given its modest break, works well enough against lefties to account for his relative success against lefties, but given all the research we know about pitch types, it would be the major exception to the rule.
The K and BB splits are crazy
I’m still get used to the splits pages, and I wish they had O-Swing on there, but he does seem to try to pitch around lefties, and they either bite on it or don’t.
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 11, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
which is a strategy that can work when facing one or two lefties per appearance coming out of the bullpen
but can be a disaster facing a lineup stacked with lefty hitters over six innings
Good thing the Twins aren't in the division
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 11, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Here is a good article about why Farns as a SP may work
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/kyle-farnsworth-starting-pitcher
He is being compared to Dempster, which I wouldn’t mind as a 4/5 in our rotation
Um, wow...
It’s novel, I’ll give them credit for that. But not a lot else.
Murphy was an optimist.
by The Ol' Perfesser on Feb 11, 2010 3:14 PM EST reply actions
Interesting Farnsworth graphs to ponder
nothing meant by them, it’s just interesting to see how much relievers can vary and stuff.





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That BB/9 graph is ridiculous.
Pitchers and Catchers report February 17th... And so begins my masochistic addiction.
by averagegatsby on Feb 11, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Against lefties, I meant
Probably just a sample size variation, but maybe there’s something there. And it didn’t affect his ERA one bit.
Twitter: awolfson0
Not sure what to think about it
We all know what he is as a reliever. Never seen what he could do as a starter. As mentioned above, if Mac can pull this one off, he should be put into the Royals hall of fame after this season…
The one thing I know...
it that increased my interest in Farnsworth’s ST appearances infinity percent.
A Couple of Things:
1. They’ve said a lot of guys would “get a look.” Crow, Tejeda, Campillo (I think?), and now Farnsworth. It’s just creating competition. Were it not for his garaunteed contract, he wouldn’t have a job, let alone be a starter.
2. When Crow was drafted, many speculated that he’d be ready by the ASB. Again, if true, our fifth guy, Farnsworth or whoever, is just holding a place.
3. This puts Tejeda and Davies in the pen, and I’m more concerned about finding an 8th inning guy than a fifth starter. We need a bridge to Soria, and I wouldn’t count on Farns or Cruz getting it done. Tejeda, Davies, and Jack could be a pretty good back of the bullpen.
4. Our starters blow their arms out. We can only hope for such luck in regards to Farns.
Disagree with #3,
we need runs or very few given up before the 8th inning. A bridge for the Royals is about as useful as a bridge to Russia.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Whether this is a good or bad idea,
at least it represents a willingness to gamble on management’s part.
Now, if only they thought that way on the offensive side of the game, and actually gave a real look at guys like Huber and Kaaihue when they could have.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
I think a lot is being read into this comment...
By McClure, probably quite a bit more than is warranted. I mean, remember the Teahen at 2B thing last year? Yeah, this is the new version of that – I think they’ll probably stretch out Farns in ST, then dump him in the bullpen as the long guy. The person I’m really curious about is Tejeda – I would love to see him A. Get the 5 starter job, or B. become the #1 setup man to Soria.
I feel like Tejeda gets buried because he walks a lot of guys, but he strikes out even more and doesn’t give up many hits. THE MAN IS USEFUL!
-
Don't worry
I bet the Tejeda appreciation post and thread comes sometime before camp breaks
Teahen would have played 2nd a lot more and Callaspo would have been blocked
if it wasn’t for Gordon’s injury.
This story coincides with SBNation getting flooded with ads for K-Y
There must be some connection…
by Soria's Unibrow on Feb 11, 2010 9:00 PM EST reply actions
The Rickets take over?
Somebody get some vitamin D!
by Soria's Unibrow on Feb 11, 2010 11:27 PM EST up reply actions

















