Would you ? Desmond Jennings, Reid Brignac for Zack Greinke.

I know TB wouldn' do it because Crawford is gonna be a FA

and they need Jennings to replace him just thinking if they need a push at the end of the year.

I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.

by kcscoliny on Feb 26, 2010 3:12 PM EST reply actions

Brignac is way over rated I think

I’d love Jennings. But i’d want more than Brignac in with him.

by kcbottom9th on Feb 26, 2010 3:19 PM EST reply actions

hell to the no

might give it a tiny bit of thought if they throw in a Davis or Hellickson. but other wise no way in hell.

baseball rules.

by doublestix on Feb 26, 2010 3:39 PM EST reply actions

need a lot more

Tampa would be a good fit—Greinke is from Florida, Tampa is going to compete for a long time and I would ask for:
Jennings
Hellickson
Tim Beckham
Wilking Rodriguez

Would they say no? probably but you’ve got to ask for the moon when you are trading the best pitcher in baseball.

by nwroyal on Feb 26, 2010 6:29 PM EST reply actions

i like Greinke to TB too, for the reasons you stated, but

the problem there is that they can’t afford him after 2012 either.

Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "[my most important sabermetric stats are] runs scored and runs driven in"

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 26, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions

but they're also trying to win now

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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 26, 2010 10:51 PM EST up reply actions

We have to get one of those pitchers they have in that deal. David Price, Hellickson, Davis…. someone. Jennings is a good prospect and would be GMDM’s DREAM in CF. So you get one of those top 3 pitching prospects and Jennings. Then you get something else. Perhaps a Brignac or another prospect. They have a TON of pitching depth.

The going rate on a pitcher signing a $20 million a year deal is about what we demand here. However, ZG under a friendly team contract? That’s got to be worth at least Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay prospect haul….

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by 306008 on Feb 26, 2010 6:58 PM EST reply actions

I don't think in todays prospect age you get a whole much more than that,

Maybe you get Desmond and Davis.

I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.

by kcscoliny on Feb 26, 2010 7:33 PM EST reply actions

I think this is right

If anything, teams are generally overvaluing their prospects, which makes it hard to get value for Greinke. Obviously, once we put fanboy feelings aside and try to be objective, Greinke probably isn’t worth TBA’s top 5 prospects or whatever other ridiculous offers we list here. On the other hand, while I’m not sure they’d give much more than Jennings and Brignac, I wouldn’t do that trade (for one thing, I don’t think Brignac’s going to be much more than an average player — w hich would be good for the Royals).

I’m not sure Jennings/Davis is enough, but the Royals would have to think about it — certainly after the 2010 season.

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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 27, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions

Maybe you get more players if you go after guys lower down the chain.

Mariners were “reportedly” given the Pads 6 guys for Adrian Gonzalez but who knows what the six were and the deal didn’t go down.

I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.

by kcscoliny on Feb 27, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions

I'm sure Ackley wasn't part of the deal

and if you leave him out the Mariners just don’t have the Top end talent that is worth giving up a top guy. If KC could land Jennings + Top 10 Rays that would be enough for me. Greinke is only around for maybe 2 more years after this season. Jennings hasn’t even sniffed his peak yet as he just went fulltime baseball in ’06.

I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.

by kcscoliny on Feb 27, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions

yeah, I love Jennings, too

As for the Mariners… Jack Z.‘s been impressive, but he’d better know what he’s dong, because it seems like a lot of the minor league depth is gone now. OF course, Jack’s hit rate on MIL’s drafts was p retty freaking incredible…

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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 27, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions

but we already have a shortstop with lateral mobility!

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Feb 26, 2010 9:34 PM EST reply actions

No. No man. Shit no man

I believe you’d get your ass kicked for saying something like that. Ok, enough of the Office Space quotes, but the opinion stands. It would take a hell of a lot more than that to pry Greinke away.

Yes, I'm still alive. Sorry to disappoint you.

by royaldaddy on Feb 27, 2010 1:55 AM EST reply actions

As a Rays fan... No.

Why would the Rays do that? Greinke had a GREAT year LAST year. What is to guarantee that he can do the same this year, and in the AL East nonetheless? Where would Greinke fit in the Rays rotation? I would rather talk Soria then Greinke. Jennings and Brignac are our future. Jennings will eventually be the future CFer and Briggy will probably man second base. Good luck with your season boys.

Blah!

by thebaddancingraysfan on Feb 27, 2010 1:56 PM EST reply actions

Because it would likely mean the difference between

winning 93-94 games and the playoffs for the Rays and winning 89 games, being the third best team in baseball, and missing the playoffs. That has serious financial advantages for the Rays, who would have Greinke through 2012.

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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 27, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions

And, yes, neutral projections

still have Greinke as the best pitcher in baseball, and he has no significant injury history. The Rays have good pitching, but it’s the one area in which they lag behind BOS and NYA (although I like TBA’s position players better than BOS). The Rays don’t have anyone close to as good as Greinke.

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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 27, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions

What are Zakk's projections?

by Dadunca on Feb 27, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions

CHONE has him at 60 context-neutral runs above replacement

last I checked, which is the highest projection they have — about 6 wins, more, since once you take into account how he effects the run environment, the run to win conversion is less than 10:1

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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 27, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions

Agreed

I don’t see #1 close to Greinkes skill level in the Rays rotation. Greinke put up those numbers with KCs defense just think how he would do with the Rays defense behind him.

I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.

by kcscoliny on Feb 27, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions

Right now, my CHONE/Jeff Z./Me spreadsheet has this

have the AL East shaking out like this:

NYA 98-64
BOS 91-71
TBA 89-73
BAL 75-87
TOR 67-95

TBA is really, really good. It’s hard to find a place to upgrade. The rotation is one place they can do that. If I plug Greinke in in place of Sonnanstine (not even their worst pitcher) and some of Davis/Price/Niemann’s innings, the Rays jump to 92 wins and second place (wildcard). That would be a huge win for them. That’s nothing against Shields, Garza, et. al., it’s just the reality of playing in the AL East.

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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 27, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions

Sonny isn't going to make the rotation.

More then likely it will be Davis. Sonny will be lucky if he can break camp in the bullpen.

Blah!

by thebaddancingraysfan on Feb 27, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions

And Zack is just that much better than Davis, too

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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 27, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions

Looking at Greinke's splits over the last three years

Greinke hasn’t fair overly well against the AL East opponents. Greinke had a hell of a season last year. I have seen in him in person and watched him over the years, I don’t know if he dominates or puts up the same numbers if he is playing in the AL East.

Blah!

by thebaddancingraysfan on Feb 27, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions

those splits don't have much weight

statistically speaking, for various reasons — low sample size, homefield issues, etc. I don’t think you’ll find a single knowledgeable source who doesn’t think Zack is way better t han any pitcher on the Rays (outside iof maybe James Shields parents, Dick Vitale, etc.)

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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 27, 2010 5:52 PM EST up reply actions

Much better, yes, but the fans project Greinke to be 4 wins higher than the worst rays pitcher

And 4 wins for 3 years certainly is not worth 6 years of Desmond Jennings (who alone is projected to be worth approximately that annually by many pundits, and will be a key cog in the rays team next year) and 6 of Reid Brignac (who will soon likely be the rays shortstop, given that Bartlett will be leaving after next year.
The rays are flush with starters right now, and are extremely short on position player prospects, so there’s no reason they’d want to trade 2 of their top 3 (or perhaps even top 2 depending on how high you are on Beckham) for a pitcher, even a Cy Young caliber one.

by benderbrodriguez on Feb 27, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions