Easy Goals for 2010 That the Royals May Not Achieve Anyway: Part 1
Easy Goal for 2010 That the Royals May Not Achieve Anyway: #1 Not Being Horrible at DH
Last year Royal DHs hit an astounding .209/.281/.374. Yep, that's right. The easiest "position" to fill gave the Royals the equivalent production of a 1960s shortstop.
The biggest rascal in the Punchless DH caper was Mike Jacobs, who DHed 102 times in 2009. The second most common DH was Pena (14 starts), followed by Buck (12), Butler (11) and then a bunch of guys getting a quasi-day-off a handful of times.
So can the Royals be better in 2010?
Well, first and foremost, we know that Mike Jacobs is gone. It only took one year with the Royals, but he went from an established (if over-rated) Major League player to someone who will likely not get another 500 PAs in his lifetime at that level. Dayton Moore everyone! We had so many arguments about whether or not Jacobs sucked, and way too many people found ways to defend the trade, and guess what? He was even worse than imagined! Anyway, he's gone.
Catchers Miguel Olivo and John Buck are also gone, and they DHed for the Royals a total of 23 times. Somehow, catcher was actually one of the team's strongest offensive positions, but in any event, both of those guys are also gone.
So the 2010 DH is going to be pretty wide open for the Royals. Here's what I think we can safely predict, in terms of DH starts:
- 15 Brayan Pena starts
- 11 Billy Butler starts
- 5 Wild Card starts
Those are purposefully conservative guesses. Hillman is always good for an oddball quote and some strange lineups, but he's actually pretty conservative about using the DH to quasi-rest guys. It'll happen, just not very much. At least that's what I'm predicting. For example, Alex Gordon DHed once in 2008.
So who will DH for those other 120 or so games?
- Jose Guillen
- Rick Ankiel (probably not much if he's actually the CF, but we'll see)
- Alberto Callaspo
- Josh Fields
- Kila
- a Dayton Moore mystery addition
So, umm, yea. That's a group that can collectively post a horrible line. No doubt about it. Guillen is really the key here. The best thing the Royals could do would be to not play him at all, but if they can't swing that, he's better as a DH than as an outfielder. But we just don't know how this is going to play out. Guillen could DH 60 times before a crippling "injury" brings his Royal career to an end, or that number could be 5. Or zero.
We know that Guillen, if given the opportunity, would almost certainly be terrible. But if Guillen isn't our terrible DH, then who will be?
As we all can sense, the current roster just doesn't make a ton of sense. For some reason the Royals seem to be talking a lot about moving Callaspo to third, but he's probably the safest bet/bat of that bunch to be non-horrible. A Gordon/Callaspo/Fields rotation at 3B/DH would be mostly pointless, but I could get on board with it in some limited way. (Gordon just needs regular big league PAs again, against righties and lefties, for his continued development. I think moving him off of third this early in his career would be a mistake, but it probably doesn't matter as I doubt he wants to stay with the Royals for a long time anyway.)
I know we've said this many times and not quite been correct, but it really does seem like there has to be a pending move coming with this roster. And if/when that trade gets made, the DH situation will probably be a little clearer.
Prior to 2009, Royal DHs were better. The triple slash average for 2006-8 is .263/.324/.423. To be honest, I'm not convinced the 2010 Royal DHs can get back to that level, unless Butler ends up DHing quite a bit.
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Comments
I hate to say this, but
it would be hard to do worse, unless we bring TPJ back as DH
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
only Guillen could really make it happen (other than bringing back TPJ/Jacobs)
he hit .158 in 38 PA as DH last season.
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "In the game of chess you can never let your opponent see your pieces"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 4, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Do you think that having Greinke DH would improve that stat line?
My gut says yes. “That’s how you hit a HR son.”
by Boots 58 on Feb 4, 2010 1:49 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It'll Never Happen
But Callaspo should be the primary DH. Maybe he should spell Getz against LHP’s and let Fields DH, but he should play nearly every game. Our dumbass OF arrangement really gums up the whole picture, too. When Aviles comes back, he should play 2B against LHP’s if he’s not starting at SS, thus making Callaspo the full time DH. Where this leaves Fields I don’t know, but he should not take PA’s away from Callaspo or Gordon
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
Can Fields be outrighted?
Don't Stop Believing!
Outrighted? If You
Mean optioned, no. He’d have to be DFA’d and clear waivers the way I understand it.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Feb 4, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
and, despite his limitations
he wouldn’t make it through waivers
I can’t believe we’re even having this conversatoin, of course — Guillen should be the one to go
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 4, 2010 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
agreed.
i’m just trying to think of any possible options we might have.
Don't Stop Believing!
Buddy Bianacalana is available?!!
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Feb 5, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
I Thought He
Meant BabyBlues.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Feb 5, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
no, i knew he was out of options.
i thought a player could be outrighted once in his career without his consent.
Don't Stop Believing!
yes, but as mentioned above, he would have to clear waivers first
As pointed out above, Fields would get claimed. He would not get past the Blue Jays, Pirates or Padres on the waiver wire.
While not very good, Kila makes the most sense
In an earlier comment, my rough WAR calculations using the CHONE projections for the various in-house DH candidates (assuming a full season of playing time) were:
Ka’aihue 1.0
Callaspo 0.6
Fields 0.2
Guillen -0.7
Ankiel projects to hit about the same as Guillen, so he would have a negative projection too. Kila, while underwhelming, still comes out the winner, which I am sure surprises no one. Actual playing time at DH probably goes the reverse order here.
A slew of cheap and better candidates have already signed, but Russell Branyan and his bad back are still out there. He would project around 1.6 WAR at DH with full playing time (although that could not be counted on).
PECOTA
actually projects Ankiel for a .347 wOBA in 2010… so that’s good news
Except that they have Guillen at .333 and Yuni at .320
something’s not quite right there…
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 4, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
I Don't Understand
How Kila projects better than Callaspo,
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Feb 4, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
For DH, all that matters is batting
CHONE projections:
Callaspo: .289/.349/.412 +4 runs offensively per 150 games
Kila: .240/.353/.388 +6 runs offensively per 150 games
According to this projection system, Kila’s better walk rate and more extra base hits would slightly outvalueCallaspo’s singles-driven production.
Not that it mattesrs in this case
but I think that CHONE’s context-neutral lwts don’t include SB/CS
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 4, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Point to Kila?
His 0 for 0 would be better than Callaspo’s 1 for 2, right?
probably
I don’t know the weights Rally is using, but it’s probably a slight advantage for Kila
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Feb 4, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
how does this work....
kila’s .04 advantage in OBP outweighs Callaspo’s .24 edge in slugging?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 4, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
at FG, they have those slash stats, but
i see Callaspo at 3.1 batting RAR
and Kila at 1.7 batting RAR
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "In the game of chess you can never let your opponent see your pieces"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 4, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
different amount of playing time is a large part of it
Someone smarter like devil_fingers should really explain this, but here it goes.
I used the R/150 numbers from CHONE’s site (baseballprojection.com), which had Kila +6 and Callaspo +4 with the bat (over 150 games). The RAR numbers at fangraphs are based on playing time, not extrapolated over 150 games.
Plus, as devil_fingers noted, CHONE’s numbers apparently do not include SB/CS, while fangraphs does, so that affect it too (CHONE has Kila as 1 for 2 and Callaspo as 2 for 4).
The runs per 150 is calculated not using the triple slash line of AVG/OBP/SLG, but linear weight run values — each 2B is worth .X runs, etc. One issue with using OBP and SLG together is that SLG double counts for 1B — it is already included in OBP but then counts again in SLG. While a 1B is little more valuable than a BB because a 1B advances all runners (and sometimes two bases), it is still pretty close to BB in terms of the linear weights value, not double as it is when combining OBP and SLG.
Kila actually has a better isolated slugging percentage (ISO = SLG – 1B), so his additional extra base hits will make up a lot of the difference when looking at SLG and OBP in isolation. Thus, while Callaspo has a big edge in singles, Kila makes up the difference with more walks and extra base hits.
I'm definitely not smarter
and you’ve got it right, but one thing I should mention about CHONE’s pages as I understand them (I’ll defer to Sean or whoever knows better:
The counting stats and the three/slash lines derived from them are adjusted to the park the player is projected to play in. As I understand it, FanGraphs takes that projection and converts it to wOBA and then wRAA (linear weights prorated for projected PA), which is park-adjusted for value on the “Batting” line — that is, the value of a run on that park.
the “R150” line on CHONE’s own player pages actually does not reflect the counting stat line - it assumes 1) a normalized number of PA over 150 games, and also a neutral park and -league environment. I believe the free agent page has the neutralized projections still there.
So if you “keep track” you’ll notice that wherever a hitter signs or gets traded, the counting stats and three-slash will change to adapt to the AL’s greater difficulty, that some parks give up more/less homers, doubles, hits, etc, but R150 stays the same to show the relative “neutral” skill of the players.
Ankiel actually illustrates this a bit — I think FanGraphs version of the CHONE projections still has his context-neutral projection on his player page there: .243/.298/.436 But if you look on CHONE’s own page for KCA, you’ll see that Ankiel’s three/slash is slightly different to adjust for the AL and the park: .241/.296/.415. In a neutral context (FanGraphs current build of CHONE), he’s projected for 21 HR, whereas in KCA (CHONE own current pages), he’s projected for 17. This reflects him facing more dificult pitching in a Kauffman, which is hard on left-handed power hitters (although it’s a slightly hitters’ park overall recently).
I know it’s confusing, and I hope I made sense. The discrepancy isn’t a problem with CHONE or Fangraphs, by the way, it’s simply that there are some transactions that h ave taken place since CHONE uploaded to FanGraphs.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 4, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
ah, the crossout monster strikes again
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Feb 4, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
it all does make sense
i wasn’t aware that FG’s run-production conversion from CHONE was different than CHONE’s run-production conversion from CHONE.
seems like the playing time thing is what really matters in this case (and another pitch of mine to get “/150” included more often — how about “projected RAR” and “RAR/150” from FG in the Value section? just sayin’).
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "In the game of chess you can never let your opponent see your pieces"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 4, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, I was using CHONE, which absolutely hates Ankiel
I am somewhat more optimistic than that. My guess with Ankiel is that while he has a legitimate chance of posting good numbers — his walk and strikeout rates are below average but not horrible, and he truly has plus power — but those odds are overshadowed by the odds that he will be mediocre to bad. This is not a Pods situation where even the optimistic projection is still blah. It is more like Josh Fields, who completely by default, is becoming the one new guy that kind of interests me.
Somehow I do not foresee Betancourt beating his career avearge wOBA by 24 points (or his career best by 10).
Thanks to 2007, Marcel has Guillen at 321 wOBA. But at 333 wOBA, for a DH, that is still, what, 0.5 WAR?
i share your relectant interest in fields
lets spend a month getting quasi-excited about him, then watch the royals never play him
by Will McDonald on Feb 4, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
I Eagerly Anticipate
The Fields to 3B, A-Gor to 1B, Butler to DH, Callaspo to the Twins for C- middle reliever gambit.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Feb 4, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Ankiel has more upside than Pods
but I still like Fields chances better. Not just age, ither. I agree that Ankiel has plus power, but there isn’t much else to go on. His contact rate is almost as bad as fields, but as for othe peripherals… it’s not just that they are worse than Fields’ — they’re awful. He doesn’t work the count (from what i can tell), His command of the strike zone has always been terrible. Fly balls are good, but well…
It’s worth noting that CHONE wasn’t impressed with Ankiel BEFORE the 2009 season, either, so it’s not just the injury -riddled year.
Again, for perspective, Ankiel had 464 PAs of being good in 2008, and had almost as many (404) in 2009 hitting worse than Willie Bloomquist.
To top it off, Kauffman is unfriendly to the one thing he does well — hit home runs.
It will be an interesting season.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Feb 4, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
does that include defense?
or just their batting?
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "In the game of chess you can never let your opponent see your pieces"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 4, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
I was just talking batting
Ankiel might be a +5 RF, while Fields would be lucky to be average out there.
Of course, Fields is younger, might actually be able to play more than 120 games if given the chance, etc.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Feb 4, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
I would love to know how PECOTA has Yuniesky having a career season by 10 wOBA points
anyway, the more I look at Fields’ peripherals, the more I think he’s got some potential if he can field decently on the corner outfield…
I hope Rally does player cards again this season
Seriously, while FanGraphs is great and free, how can one guy, basically working alone, beat PECOTA AND have a historical evaluation system that currently blows anything on BP to bits.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Feb 4, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
No distraction from Jenn Sterger hanging around
fishing for paid promotional appearances at book signings for her and her friends
maybe the dead cat is on a trampoline
the faster it goes down, the higher it goes back up (and being spiked (double-bounced) by Pena).
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "In the game of chess you can never let your opponent see your pieces"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 4, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
So THAT explains the Royals process:
It’s complicated, but routinely breaking the laws of physics is definitely involved…
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
fortunately, GMDM never studied law
thanks to Bugs Bunny
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
Way optimistic
It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.
Kila must have killed someone high up in the organization
Because for some reason, despite continued solid production, he can’t get a legit shot. We’d rather keep bringing in retreads that have proven their mediocrity rather than give him a sustained shot.
WHY OH WHY
I once had hope...now I have Moore.
Not a direct comment on the actual post, but funny none the less:
LOVE your last paragraph, in which we collectively pine for the halcyon days of 2006-08, when our DHs collectively posted a breathtaking OPS of .747
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
and by the way
assuming you have an endless amount of time on your hands, RR, his new series could possibly include about 15 or 20 parts to it – and that’s without even having to stretch for ideas much at all.
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
He only has so much time to edeucate
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Feb 4, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
It could be like Rany's 20- or 25-part
reasons he was looking forward to the Royals in 2008.
Man, that seems like a long time ago.
That seems like a more appropriate name.
by CentralChamps20?? on Feb 4, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
We're gonna stink
Big time.
The fewer times Guillén makes it to the plate, the more games the Royals will win.
I’m on board with Getz and Fields after listening to you all; it sounds like there’s some Teahenesque competent play there, and possibly some improvement.
Butler should never DH, since he needs as much time practicing his defensive play as possible.
Callaspo should always be in the lineup, and if they can’t fit him in anywhere else, he should DH, since he can actually hit.
You know, an infield of Gordon/Avilés/Callaspo/Butler would be porous, but if Avilés can come back and OPS 750 or so, it would be an infield with some pop. Substitute Getz at 2B and put Callaspo at DH, and that might work too. Give Fields a few chances at each of the corners and see what he does, assuming there’s enough room for him, as Yuni and Guillén and Bloomquist and Pods and Ankiel and Anderson and Kendall are just so awesome that there’s no way he’ll be able to break into the top 25.
Is there hope for 2011, after we shed several dead weights and might be able to pick up just one or two good players?
It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.
The Kansas City Royals
Where there’s always next year the year after next.
"Greinke and the Brain" (R) (C) TM
by SittinByTheFoulPole on Feb 4, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
The fewer times Guillén makes it to the plate, the more games the Royals will win.
So if Hoagy never bats we could wi what, 700 games or so?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Feb 4, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
The triple slash line for Royals DH is pathetic
Another reason for abolishing the DH. At least the pitchers have an excuse.
For 2010, if Trey does the smart thing, he’ll have Callaspo DH for 150 games and get similar production to 2009 which is a damn sight better than 09. Having Getz in the field would improve the defense and he will hit better the 09 DH triple slash as well.
Having said that, I predict Guillen will DH for over 100 games so he can be a “power threat” in the lineup. He will mostly strike out and hit about what the DHs did in 09. Fans will have to hear about “he is a slow starter,” “the cold weather is tough on foreign players” “He’ll heat up as the summer does” and the other excuses. Then, in June/July Guillen goes on DL with assorted ailments and KC will be 15 games out of first place already.
Hate to be so negative but seems like this story has been told before.
hahahahahah
so true, how many times we heard the same lines from Lebefjryea, and White?
I cant wait until they play the same commercials again for 500 times a game, honestly! My wife and i would count during the game how many times they played the cursed Rogaine commercial per game!
Warriors come out and play
I wonder if we can get Randy Johnson to DH for us.
Pitchers and Catchers report February 17th... And so begins my masochistic addiction.
by averagegatsby on Feb 4, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Magic Johnson?
I don’t think Casey Johnson is still available.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Feb 4, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
Randy Johnson is the sole reason why I think pitchers should never hit.
Pitchers and Catchers report February 17th... And so begins my masochistic addiction.
by averagegatsby on Feb 4, 2010 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
Now You Can
Add TPJ to the list.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Feb 4, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
touche
Pitchers and Catchers report February 17th... And so begins my masochistic addiction.
by averagegatsby on Feb 4, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
maybe in coming years we can just have the
pitchers hit for themselves and save some money.
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "In the game of chess you can never let your opponent see your pieces"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 4, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
Best option for DH is Billy Butler.
Then have someone else play first, like Kila or Callaspo.
Go Royals!
if its game 7 of the WS
yea
but i want butler to get more time at first to see if he can improve… the royals bungled his “development” in the minors so much in that regard
by Will McDonald on Feb 4, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
he probably won't improve
unless you count a fielding “dead cat bounce” as improvement
but I agree, since no one else really has the upside to waste the playing time on them in a non-contending year, unless it turns into a Hafner thing (pre-terrible injury), where not only did he suck at first, but also risks injury when he plays there.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Feb 4, 2010 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
Best option for DH?
The 3 foot 6 inch tall midget that has an OBP of 1.000. Though with his leg length, I bet he’s slower than Billy Butler.
An Eddie Goedel reference!
Nice
Mr Glass, this is a pro sports team, not a retail store - run it like one!
I don't think it is likely KC is worse at DH
I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
Nothing is impossible where GMDM and Treysan are concerned
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Feb 5, 2010 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
we can have
the pitchers DH so we can do double switches and have an extra player to make defensive subsitutions with and to pinch run!
Of course, having Grineke do it would most likely make the numbers better this year.
Go Royals!
unbelievable
that the farking DH could hit that poorly. why does it seem that every year the royals have some ridiculous stat such as this? i remember a few years ago when we blew some ungodly number of saves…or these long losing streaks, or terrible defense, or being historically bad on the basepaths.
i think that’s the thing that’s so frustrating, that despite being “old school”, DM still has a team that brain farts it’s way through games. if he’s not going to be a big believer in OBP, well whatever, but if we’re going to go old school, then lets have a bunch of guys that have high baseball IQ and play good defense, then supplement that with a lights-out pitching staff.
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Feb 5, 2010 7:50 AM EST reply actions
With Guillen and Ankiel on the roster, we shouldn't have any shortage of "supplements"
(crash bang)
thank you, thank you, I’ll be here all week!
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Feb 5, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
How's the veal?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Feb 5, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe a better question
is what normally strong offensive position on the Royals will have staggeringly poor results this year? Remember in 2008, it was the third spot in the batting order. Then last year as posted it was the DH. What will be the offensive position in 2010 where everybody will hit well below their average stats when placed there?
Poddy In LF=
Power at the corners.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Feb 5, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
a Dayton Moore mystery addition =
Willie Bloomqvist (and not much of a surprise)
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
Always in motion is the future.
-- Yoda
Bonds?
Just throwing out the crazy…
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Marcels, highly pessimistic
Would peg him as a .365 wOBA guy…
Bonds hasn’t hit that “poorly” since the 80s, and if he could hit that well over 400ish PA’s, he’d be worth it.
Of course, none of us really know how out of shape Bonds is in, nor the condition of his health in general…
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Of course, none of us really know how out of shape Bonds is in, nor the condition of his health in general…
That sounds a lot like the guy the Royals currently have penciled in at DH.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Feb 9, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
let's corner the market on former PED users
GMDM: creating market inefficiencies since 2005
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "In the game of chess you can never let your opponent see your pieces"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 9, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
We had Benito Santiago
Juan Gonzalez, Paul Byrd, and Jason Grimsley already.
It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.





















