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How the AL Central Looks to Free Agents

Imagine that you are an established Major League baseball player. You are a free agent. You're an everyday player, or maybe a reliever with a decent reputation. You aren't a star and you aren't a scrub. For the purposes of our exercise, your agent tells you that every team in the AL Central wants you for two years, $9 million dollars total.

Star-divide

Of course, the money and playing time situations are never the same. Moreover, the qualities of the teams involved are never the same. And those are the factors that end up mattering the most. For the purposes of discussion, lets lay those aside and try to think about the cities themselves and what they offer to an athlete.

Where would you like to play?

 


(One last bit of assumptions: I'm assuming that you're going to make your permanent home in Texas or Florida [no state income tax] or somewhere else warm and hip, because this is what baseball players do, especially those without long-term contracts. Even if you have a family, this is probably where they'll be most of the time anyway.)

 

Chicago: Chicago is the largest city in the division, and by both hard and soft factors is the most distinct "big city" of the division. Chicago is the largest media market in the division, so there will also be more national attention, more national games, etc. The local media infrastructure is also comparatively larger than the rest of the division. Chicago provides the greatest variety of short-term housing options in the division, thanks to the vibrancy of various hip communities close to downtown, as well as standard suburban options. Although the price of a super-nice apartment or home will also be more here, if you choose to go in that direction. No matter what crowd you want to run with, Chicago can oblige you and then some. With five major professional sports teams, and a greater number of non-sports celebrities living in town than in other places, it'll be easier for you, as a mid-tier baseball player to have a relatively normal life, which may or may not be a good thing, depending on what you want. Pros: the big city amenities that most benefit wealthy people, diversity, wider housing options, more media attention. Cons: higher costs, more intense local media pressure.

Cleveland: Cleveland has some jock buzz at the moment because of Lebron James, arguably the biggest sports celebrity in the world, so we can be certain that the un-reachable-to-the-peons party scene has improved, especially with Shaq in town. If Lebron stays, you might wanna stay just for a chance to watch the NBA Finals courtside for the next few years. Cleveland is a very low-cost city real estate wise, but you don't have a huge number of options, at least not compared to Chicago. There are some downtown/close to the stadium options, but it may be easier to go with a gigantic house in the suburbs route here. Then again, those costs are low for a reason, and if you end up buying something, then you better hope the next athlete that comes along will buy from you when the time comes. Cleveland is sports-mad, and as long as you stay out of trouble and play decently, a mid-level player like yourself is never going to be scrutinized. Then again, Cleveland is, for better or worse, a deeply provinical city, so if they turn on you, they really turn on you. This is the fanbase that has stayed mad at Jim Thome for half a decade now. Jim Thome!  Lastly, because of the long-standing suffering of the Indians, there is a real "you have a chance to be a hero for life" potential here if you help the Tribe win the WS. Pros: Lebron buzz factor, jock-friendly local culture, low costs, no clear disadvantages compared to other non-Chicago rivals either. Cons: no clear advantages over any other city in the division.

Detroit: Basically, Cleveland without the Lebron buzz, only a little worse. Your downtown/close to the stadium living options are also probably worse than Cleveland's, with the Detroit suburbs potentially being nicer. Low costs, but you'll also have to endure meaningless media questions about playing hard because Detroit is a hard-working city on hard-times, etc. Detroit's stadium is the second newest in the division, so it likely also features the second nicest set of lockerroom/clubhouse amenities. Detroit could have a little extra appeal for an African-American player, and a little less for a Hispanic or Latin American one. Pros: New stadium, low costs, friendly media environment. Cons: no clear advantages over any other city in the division, greater distance from many points south where players have permanent homes.

Minnesota: Amongst my set you'll frequently hear that the Twin Cities is a secretly hip metro, with a nice arts and music scene, parks, lots of farmer's markets, and all that. Of course, my set has only a very small overlap with the set of you average Major League ballplayer. Even though it's basically irrelevant to your typical baseball player who lives way south in the off-season, Minnesota is likely seen as a frigid, ice-locked wasteland. Then again, the Twin Cities has been home to some notoriously hard-partying teams, especially the Vikings, from the days of Randy Moss to the Sex Cruise era. In terms of places to live, Minnesota gives you a few more options than does Detroit or Cleveland for comparable prices. And Minnesota now boasts the newest park in the division, which is a nice little bonus. Pros: nice place to live in the summer, good housing options, new park. Cons: perception as frozen, all-white, semi-rural community (which could also be a pro for some), does feature some legitimately cold weather during the season, far away from points south, comparatively difficult to get in and out of compared to some other Central cities.

Kansas City: Really, I'd like to hear what you guys think about this one. In putting myself of a baseball player, here's what I think I see. Kansas City probably appeals to a certain brand of guy more than any other city. KC is the furthest city south in the divison, both culturally and geographically. Elements of southern culture and southern lifestyle are more prominent in Kansas City than in other cities in the division. Kansas City is also the smallest metro in the division, and athletes frequently talk positively about the area being more relaxed and laid-back than other big league cities. I think Josh Fields is probably happy to exchange Chicago for Kansas City. If you're an athlete that wants to have a cool bachelor pad apartment in a high rise, Kansas City might not be for you. But if you were going to go for a more suburban feel, while still being close to the park, you can likely achieve that much easier in Kansas City than in anywhere else in the division. Pros: ease of lifestyle, low-level of media and fan pressure, low costs, warmer weather, less dangerous downtown than Detroit or Cleveland. Cons: a borderline baseball backwater, small community and smaller nightlife scene makes it harder to blend in.

And so...

As I see it, Chicago is in it's own class in the division. The other four cities all have much more in common with one another than they do with the Windy City. Chicago offers the most clear positives, but also might be somewhat unappealing to a certain temperment of player. After Chicago, there seems to be a clear pairing of Detroit and Cleveland. My wife is from Cleveland and I've lived there during a few stints, and I'm well aware of the (to me) nonsensical Ohio/Michigan rivalry. I see way more similarities than differences, although I also happen to think Cleveland is nicer overall. West from Chicago and the Rust Belt metros of the Great Lakes lies Kansas City and Minneapolis/St. Paul. They're both more similar to Cleveland/Detroit than Chicago, but they certainly have a slower paced lifestyle and lower intensity media scrutiny. What we have to remember is that most people don't have terribly nuanced views of anywhere. Be they athletes or anyone else. And maybe we aren't giving these guys enough credit, as they've likely travelled to all of these places many times. In any event, if you were offered a job in, say, Tulsa, and a job in Atlanta, you're going to fall back on the few things you think you know about those places. And in many cases you'll probably be wrong.

What do you think?

1 recs  |  Comment 155 comments |

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You did leave out

“Hordes of blonde women of Scandinavian descent” in your Minneapolis synopsis. I myself have partaken (although not while IN that metro area at the time). And it is most certainly a factor.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Mar 2, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't consider myself as having enough experience to judge anywhere except KC.

I would guess that Chicago, for obvious reasons, would lead in sheer numbers and diversity. Minny if you have a proclivity for the aforementioned blondes, and again, Detroit and Cleveland seem like a toss up to me. But I’ve never been to either of those towns for any length of time.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Mar 2, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Cleveland = fail

I lived in Ohio. It is where ugly women go to be treated like models.

No offense to anyone from Ohio or married to anyone from Ohio.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Mar 2, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Especially THE Ohio State

Not to say I didn’t suck face with my share of not that great looking Buckeye gals. Hey, a guy has needs.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Mar 2, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Wasn't there that episode of 30 Rock

where Liz Lemon was thinking about moving there with her lawyer boyfriend, and everywhere she went, everyone was telling her how pretty she was?

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Mar 2, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

And its true. There are lots of pretty mediocre looking girls with good looking guys. Which left really not good looking girls for guys like me.

Plus everyone wears sweatshirts for four months, making it impossible to gauge weight.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Mar 2, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Seems like of all the random women I meet,

Minnesota has a better hot/not hot ratio.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.

by Warden11 on Mar 2, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

that makes me

salivate.

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Mar 2, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

You mean white ones?

The only decent burritos in KC are on SW Boulevard, man.

by thejosephboys on Mar 2, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

i'll head this one off, considering i'm not really a chipotle fan

he’s referencing a particular Royals player, whom you might identify if you googled:
Royals pitcher Chipotle

Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "[my most important sabermetric stats are] runs scored and runs driven in"

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Mar 2, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah!

Fair enough. I was not aware of that.

by thejosephboys on Mar 2, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Patience

I’m thinking through a reply

That seems like a more appropriate name.

by CentralChamps20?? on Mar 2, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Reply NOW!!!!11!

Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "[my most important sabermetric stats are] runs scored and runs driven in"

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Mar 2, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Honestly

I think you’ve got it summarized pretty well. Most MLB free agents probably know a decent amount about Chicago, and either think it’s their kind of town or not. Detroit and Cleveland are probably pretty much interchangeable. Minnesota is colder, but bigger and more metropolitan. Kansas City is smaller, but warmer and more small-town/laid back than any of other places. I’d say KC’s big draw would be for guys originally from small towns who don’t care much about nightlife and media attention. So, basically white guys who like to hunt, listen to country, and who are probably already married, with or without kids (i.e. John Buck).

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Mar 2, 2010 1:44 PM EST reply actions  

KC has never been an attractive FA target

Even when we were winning. Consider that Bob Boone in 1989 was only our second free agent signing EVER (utility IF Jerry Terrell was the first). And it wasn’t for a lack of trying. Among the big names that passed us over – Jim Palmer, Pete Rose, Carlton Fisk and Joe Carter.

We’re a relatively smaller city that doesn’t really stand out. I think our fair city is a hidden secret that people are surprised is such a great place to live.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Mar 2, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

Our best FA acquisitions have been signings of players already here who were attached to the KC area. In other words, home-grown talent combined with winning baseball enabled the famous home-town discount. – TL

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 2, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

fwiw, state income tax rates

Minn – 7.85
Missouri – 6
Ohio- 5.95 (I know for a fact there are also county/regional income taxes)
Michigan – 4.35
Ill – 3 %

by Will McDonald on Mar 2, 2010 1:47 PM EST reply actions  

Really surprised by Illinois

And I lived there, although I owned no property at the time. Chicago has the country’s highest sales tax for major cities, but that regressive tax shouldn’t affect ballplayers too much.

That seems like a more appropriate name.

by CentralChamps20?? on Mar 2, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe that's why they are trying not to go broke?

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Mar 2, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a large part of the reason...

…why the State of IL is in the midst of a CA-type fiscal crisis. If my elected officials were to miraculously pay attention to me, we’d have a state income tax around 7% (excepted graded according to income). – TL

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 2, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Kansas 6.45

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Mar 2, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Communists.

But it does explain why there isn’t a fiscal crisis there. – TL

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 2, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

It was a joke.

The 6.45 compared to 3% in IL makes KS look like a socialist state.

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 2, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Was referring to

the “isn’t a fiscal crisis there” part.

Murphy was an optimist.

by The Ol' Perfesser on Mar 2, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Tell me more.

I’ve been so involved in keeping up with IL’s that it seems I’ve missed KS’s story.

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 2, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Won't say

it’s on the level of IL, but as a state employee I’d note the multiple rounds of cutbacks my employer (you can probably guess by my screen name) has been required to “give back,” the fact that the local school board is considering closing schools, impending staff cuts…it may not be a crisis but it’s as close as I ever want to get.

Murphy was an optimist.

by The Ol' Perfesser on Mar 2, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Got it.

I would’ve figured that the rich, civic-minded folks in Johnson County would’ve felt obligated to help their fellow citizens by giving back more through their taxes. ;)

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 2, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

BWAHAHAHAHA....

oh, sorry, did I do that out loud?

Murphy was an optimist.

by The Ol' Perfesser on Mar 2, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

There isn't a state in the union that isn't in financial crisis

Except Alaska and their oil of plenty.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Mar 2, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I've heard that...

…TX is doing okay.

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 2, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

and they're not really in the union

as far as they’re concerned

Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "[my most important sabermetric stats are] runs scored and runs driven in"

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Mar 2, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I had to do...

… double-take on your URL because I thought you were referencing an Onion article.

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 2, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh no, that state is hosed big time.

The first action they did to save money was to close all highway rest areas.

Arizona – Where you pee along the side of the road.

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Mar 2, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

We Have No

State income or sales taxes. We are pretty much dependent on the price of oil, so we have these ridiculous crises every now and then, then the price spikes and everybody throws a party. It is anomalous, to say the least.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Mar 2, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Not to mention that the schools didn't get their

check from the state for the 3rd time in a row.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.

by Warden11 on Mar 2, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Follow Up: Cost of Living

I had great fun plugging a $4.5MM salary into bankrate.com (a man can dream). The following assumes Kansas City is the base, i.e. a 100 index:
CLE: 103.9
DET: 104.8
CHI: 114.7
MIN (St. Paul): 115.3
MIN (Minneapolis): 119.8

I don’t think CoL is material to a major league player, but is interesting to consider nonetheless. Kind of surprised Minny is more expensive… must be the heating bills.

by chiefstatnut on Mar 2, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

KC welcomes all gritty vets!!

KC would most appeal to older guys, not too famous, with families looking for a good place to raise the kids. This somewhat defines who we have attracted to the Royals over the last several years.

With that said, there is a type where the KC dynamic could pay off instead of luring free agents: keeping young guys who aren’t necessarily cosmopolitan (sorry, I couldn’t think of anything better), get married young and have kids before their six years in KC is up and find themselves drawn to having his family here, at least in the summers. Immediately coming to mind: Billy Butler. He and his young wife currently live around Idaho Falls in the off-season, so 1) he is willing to move away from childhood home and 2) he doesn’t need a hip night life (not that I’m saying Idaho Falls lacks excitement). They have been married at least a couple of years, so you’d think kids would be coming along soon. And, to the best of my knowledge, his wife was never a model—catalog, swimsuit or Playboy—like other Royal wives (I admittedly don’t know that this is true), so she might not long for the bigger city spotlight that others may crave.

I don’t know how much this stuff matters, but if at all, it would seem to logically apply to a guy like Butler. And that would be good for KC.

That seems like a more appropriate name.

by CentralChamps20?? on Mar 2, 2010 1:47 PM EST reply actions  

good point

if your wife wants some extra attention, she probably would want chicago

then again, it may be easier to make a splash in KC

by Will McDonald on Mar 2, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember that coming up

When the Royals were talking to Kris Benson a couple of years back. Consensus seemed like there was no way Anna Benson would be willing to step foot in the KC metroplex.

That seems like a more appropriate name.

by CentralChamps20?? on Mar 2, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember how Ashley Montana was a big KC celeb when Joe was traded here

Even Brodie Croyle’s wife became a minor celeb when her husband was briefly the starting QB.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Mar 2, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

wasn't she a UMKC student?

I thought I remembered someone telling me she was in one of their classes.

by 9il on Mar 2, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

i wonder how relationships work when you're a backup quarterback

because your girlfriend is on the cusp of being worth 10’s of millions and dating the most talked about guy in town, but he could get cut and his career could be over at just about any time.

by 9il on Mar 3, 2010 1:42 AM EST up reply actions  

If a ballplayers wife wants some extra attention ...

… all she has to do is make sure that she gets a chance to meet Steve Phillips. And she should be able to do that no matter what MLB team you play for.

by Steve Nelson on Mar 4, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

If I were a free agent

And say, the Royals weren’t interested in me, Seattle would be absolutely #1 on my list. That’s an awesome city, good fanbase, beautiful stadium, and management that gets it. Plus I’ve read Wakamatsu is a popular manager to play for and it would be worth it just to be teammates with Ichiro.

The Cubs would probably be my second choice – I love Chicago, Wrigley is a cool atmosphere, and they have the resources to at least be competitive most years.

Third – I don’t know, maybe the Giants?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Mar 2, 2010 1:53 PM EST reply actions  

Chicago has the huge advantage of day games

The games get done early enough to get a nice dinner before hitting the clubs but start late enough that you could still sleep in every morning.

San Diego has to be near the top of the list. It’s southern California without the hassles and weirdness of LA, you can live in a penthouse a block from the park, the weather is incredible, the stadium is nice, the press is nice, and you really have to do something horrible to get the fans to turn on you.

by Gopherballs on Mar 2, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

San Diego - if you're a pitcher

Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "[my most important sabermetric stats are] runs scored and runs driven in"

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Mar 2, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Seattle would definitely appeal to a certain type of person

But I don’t think too many baseball players are members of the intelligentsia.

Still, it would be cool to choose to play in Seattle and then sit back and be like, “Yep, I’m one of the smart ones.” Playing in the pacific northwest for a team put together by Jack Z would really make you feel like you were on the cutting edge.

I bet Banny signs with them the second he’s a free agent.

by big matt on Mar 2, 2010 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

team chaplain?

ball boy?
team photographer?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Mar 2, 2010 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

If with family

Johnson County. Just ‘cause that’s what you do.

If young and single, Plaza or maybe, possibly into some of the new downtown construction.

That seems like a more appropriate name.

by CentralChamps20?? on Mar 2, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

If I were a young, single MLB player in KC

I’d just rent a couch at Mosaic, a lounge chair at The Jones, or some other piece of furniture at whichever relatively new club is the “hottest” in KC right now.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Mar 2, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Where

Most live in Mission Hills. I know DeJesus and George lives there. You’re near the Plaza, near the highway, but can get a huge house. Many also live in condos near the Plaza.

Personally, I’d get a penthouse downtown, especially if I were a ballplayer. Taking care of a house is a pain in the butt, especially if you’re gone a lot.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Mar 2, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought

Meche lived near some of the new development around Parkville.

That seems like a more appropriate name.

by CentralChamps20?? on Mar 2, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Meche lives in North KC

By one of the famous golf courses – I forget the name.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Mar 2, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I think I've heard many live in Overland Park

I’d go with the plaza were if i was a single ballplayer, although I never go anywhere on the plaza. Maybe the west side, like 16th and Summit. Dante Hall used to live there. I’d live in Dante Hall’s old place.

by 9il on Mar 2, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember as a kid

Tons of Royals lived in Blue Springs. I think Overland Park has become the suburb de jure now. I recall Kurt Stillwell being one of the first to move there and he did radio ads that ran between innings imploring people to move to “the Park – Overland Park.”

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Mar 2, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

They should try those ads again

They're really hurting for residents these days.

"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae

"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie

by Sweep_the_Leg on Mar 2, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Mar 2, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

No, if you had written on this topic, I wouldn’t have bothered to read it.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Mar 2, 2010 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

To be fair Tim,

I was thinking that none of that stuff Will mentioned would probably matter to most FAs. And that they’d chase dollars, winning team, etc…

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Mar 2, 2010 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that is assumed

It seems apparent that Will is writing about local/living issues outside of dollars offered and the state of the franchise. That’s why he created a hypothetical in which dollars, playing time, etc. were equal. So, unlike Tim’s typically bizarre reading of the post, it wasn’t theorizing on which factors are most important to a FA: money, playing for a winner, cost of living, etc. It was about what would be important to a FA other than money and the team.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Mar 2, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, i know

i just didn’t think it was fair of Tim to specifically attack you when many of us would think that. It got mentioned several more times in responses below here.

Don't Stop Believing!

by KC Chris on Mar 2, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Tim has a chip on his shoulder, so there will be more of this kind of blind lashing out from him.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Mar 2, 2010 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Just so you know, I didn't...

…give my comment those three rec’ds. – TL

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 2, 2010 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, there are a few other like you

Cranky whiners attract each other.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Mar 3, 2010 7:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Ad hominen attacks...

…will no longer get you anywhere, with me at least. It’s a shame you did not address the substance of my charge. – TL

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 3, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

LMAO, there was substance in that charge?

If you had written a piece that started with a hypothetical where money offered and the quality of the team were equal and then compared the relative virtues of various cities to a potential FA, I would have ignored your hypothetical and talked about money and wanting to play for a winner? No, Tim, I wouldn’t have done that because I’m not stupid. You may not like my analysis or personality, but I hope you understand that I’m not an idiot.

I disagree with the substance of what you write. I don’t make blind attacks against you just to attack you. I don’t disagree with you because I don’t like you. When I disagree with you, it is because……….I disagree with you.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Mar 3, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

You have stated in a number of...

…prior posts that the ONLY thing, or at least far and away the highest priority thing, that matters to FAs is money. Do you deny this? …We’ll start slowly.

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 3, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, I think money is by far the most factor in a FA's choice of where to sign

But Will’s post says, what if money, playing time, team were all equal? How would a potential FA feel about playing/living in these AL Central cities. He’s not claiming that characteristics about the city are the most important factor for a FA’s decision making. He just chose to look at those factors in this post.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Mar 3, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Ergo...

…you might be inclined to say at any exercise with regard to geography/urban environment is pointless—-useless speculation because money, playing time, etc. are never equal. You did not engage in that kind of harsh criticism of Will because you use logic to argue with those you have decided you do not like—-ergo your arguments are usually against the person. – TL

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 3, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

you might be inclined to say at any exercise with regard to geography/urban environment is pointless—-useless speculation because money, playing time, etc. are never equal.

No. We talk about all kinds of things on this site, including lots of minutiae. Sometimes what we talk about is important. Sometimes it is just interesting. This post and discussion was interesting. I don’t think anyone was saying that this is a huge factor in most FA’s decision making process.

You did not engage in that kind of harsh criticism of Will because you use logic to argue with those you have decided you do not like—-ergo your arguments are usually against the person.

I have had significant disagreements (on baseball issues) on this site with just about everyone, including the posters I like the most including but not limited to Will, Matt (devil_fingers), jonfmorse and many others. More than a few times, these disagreements with posters I like the most have gotten heated. I don’t argue with someone because I don’t like him/her. I argue with someone when I disagree with him/her.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Mar 3, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

As an exanple, I recally NYRoyal and I going back and forth at each other ...

… about Jorge Campillo. In a very similar manner.

It’s just the style of many of us. When we lock horns, we lock horns.

by Steve Nelson on Mar 4, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

FFS

Look up what Ad hominem is. It drives me crazy to see you misusing it all the time.

He’s just straight insulting you. That alone does not constitute an Ad hominem attack.

by kcbottom9th on Mar 3, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Just wait until I start talking about his mother!

Then things are really going to get wild! (but still not ad hominem)

j/k

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Mar 3, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

You are correct...

…in that making snide remarks about one’s mother doesn’t strictly qualify as an ad hominem attack. It must somehow be connected to the person you are arguing with. I suppose technically if you said “Tim’s mother” then you’re encroaching on those grounds. – TL

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 3, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

"Againt the person"

That’s what it means. When you call people names, or insult them, instead of looking at the substance of a charge made, it’s an ad hominen attack. Read your own dictionary—-again and again.

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 3, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

Except NYRoyal isn’t using your idiocy to disrupt your arguments. He’s just insulting you. Nowhere has he implied that purely because you are an uptight, pretentious twit is your argument invalid. He has put down your arguments, and seperately insulted you. No logical fallacy, see?

by kcbottom9th on Mar 3, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Oh, and I use...

…the term ad hominem frequently with regard to NYRoyal because of his own claim that he’s always engaging in discussion or disagreement—-and usually couches his disagreement in some form of logic/argument. – TL

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 3, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

—-and [NYRoyal ]usually couches his disagreement in some form of logic/argument

Don’t you hate it when someone disagrees with you and then uses logic and argumentation? Now THAT is definitely ad hominem.

The immoderate moderator

by NYRoyal on Mar 3, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't hate it. Rather, you...

…chose to resort to exaggerations about me (“bizarre”) rather than simply leaving it at an argument (e.g. addressing my point (a) about FA money). It makes teasing out our your logic from the insult/attack difficult. – TL

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 3, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Interchangeable Cleveland and Detroit

If you draw a body on the map of North America where Toronto is the head, Cleveland and Detroit would be the armpits.

That seems like a more appropriate name.

by CentralChamps20?? on Mar 2, 2010 2:01 PM EST reply actions  

If I had the choice to live in any of the five with my young family

I would take:
Minneapolis
KC
Chicago
Cleveland (at least it is not Detroit)
Detroit

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Mar 2, 2010 2:01 PM EST reply actions  

.02

I really think that the most important thing to me would be the players on the team, the manager, the GM, i.e., the organization. The five cities in the AL Central are each totally livable and comfortable places for a guy making $4.5M per. Maybe Cleveland and Detroit slightly behind (although both places have their charms). Minny and KC are pretty much indistinguishable from a FAs perspective, I’d guess. Yes, Minny’s cold in the winter, but as Ichiro once said, “August in Kansas City is hotter than two rats fucking in a sock.” There are many great baseball cities in the country: Seattle, the Bay Area, San Diego, LA (in places), KC, Minny, Miami, Boston…I even like places like Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Philly, DC, Cincy…

Anyway, my point is that the cities are probably a small factor in the decision for most FAs. It probably goes: Money, opportunity to start/play, opportunity to win, relationships with players/manager/GM, city. Maybe “city” moves up if it’s home or near home, but otherwise I think it’s low on the list.

by billexgordler on Mar 2, 2010 2:02 PM EST reply actions  

And

Most players probably don’t even really live in the city of the team they play for.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Mar 2, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Assumed in the intro

That its probably not that important. But, when you’re KC, you’ve got to exploit any potential advantage you’ve got, and city could be one.

Also, if you enter “ichiro august” into the Google search box, it auto completes “in Kansas City.” Awesome.

That seems like a more appropriate name.

by CentralChamps20?? on Mar 2, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Here are some...

…sweet pics of Detroit. “Feral Detroit” even made an appearance in The Baffler (magazine founded by Thomas Frank). – TL

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 2, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

WTF - Does the Swamp Thing live here.

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman (TucsonRoyal) on Mar 2, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably.

Detroit is in sad shape these days.

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 2, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I concur

It looks post-humanity altogether.

Murphy was an optimist.

by The Ol' Perfesser on Mar 2, 2010 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

The Baffler

I got a subscription to that a few years ago and only ever got one issue. I really liked the one issue, but was pretty bummed that it stopped coming…

by billexgordler on Mar 2, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

It's up ...

…and running again. Call or write them to resume. The Jan. 2010 issue was fantastic. – TL

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 2, 2010 11:06 PM EST up reply actions  

If I'm a big dollar FA

gotta go San Diego…Beautiful everyday of the year but then again if I’m a FA I can just live their in the offseason and play with a team that is gonna be a contender like the Yankees. Seattle would probably be the best overall destination. Jack Z will have them as a contender for quite some time probably. People/fans are intelligent and not to overbearing like Philly or NY fans would be.

I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.

by kcscoliny on Mar 2, 2010 2:06 PM EST reply actions  

Minnesota

Getting in and out of Minnesota should probably be a positive. Like Detroit, it is a Delta/NWA hub so there are plentiful direct flights to everywhere.

by Gopherballs on Mar 2, 2010 2:13 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed

Really, KC is the only non-hub (Midwest is nice, but has a limited route map). Cleveland has Continental, Chicago American and United, Detroit and Minny Delta (which is eliminating the NWA logo relatively quickly).

Kansas City’s airports can rightfully claim they are some of the most user-friendly in the country, but that doesn’t do much for access and travel time.

by chiefstatnut on Mar 2, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Can we just go ahead

and use the “r” word for the type of player who will find Kansas City appealing?

What the whole exercise shows me is the disadvantage that all of the teams in this division face. Even the White Sox, who would seem to have multiple advantages, have to put up with being second banana to the Cubs. Detroit can’t be appealing right now unless someone wants to do a Drew Brees and rebuild the city (or unless you’re Johnny Damon and your agent has totally screwed up your negotiations), and Cleveland not far from that. Oddly, Minnesota might be most appealing right now, until their first home-series-in-a-blizzard.

Murphy was an optimist.

by The Ol' Perfesser on Mar 2, 2010 2:20 PM EST reply actions  

But the good thing is

All these teams are competing with each other.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Mar 2, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

In the standings, yes

But getting FAs to come to any team in the division looks particularly challenging.

Murphy was an optimist.

by The Ol' Perfesser on Mar 2, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Carlos Silva + KC BBQ ...

… sounds like a marriage waiting to happen. Here’s to the new addition to the Royals rotation starting in 2012 – maybe earlier if the Cubs decide to unload him and eat the contract in exchange for a somebody such as Collaspo who’s been squeezed out of the lineup.

by Steve Nelson on Mar 2, 2010 3:10 PM EST reply actions  

Collaspo doesn't fit...

…with the Cubs due having a star SS shortstop prospect that’ll probably see playing time this season (Castro) as well as Theriot (who’ll likely move to 2nd base)—-and at least two back up infielders. Anyway, Silva couldn’t make the Royals rotation—-not until Rothschild works him over anyway. – TL

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Mar 2, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

More to the point of the thread ...

… I think the most important consideration for the player will be how much playing time he thinks he will get and how that situation will match his skill set. Agents are certainly thinking of that. And that’s because those are factors that play into the value of his next contract.

We saw that with Beltre signing with Boston – that’s one of the best parks in baseball for him to have as home field on a one-year contract. It also came into play with Erik Bedard deciding to sign with Seattle (presumably turning down offers from KC, Baltimore, and perhaps others.

++++++

Playing time particularly is valuable. There is a limited amount of it that is available, and a team that can offer playing time has an advantage. The availability of playing time can be used by a smaller market team to help level negotiations with wealthier teams. Smart GMs of smaller market teams exploit that. Less creative GM squander it.

++++++

My mother taught me that if I can’t keep a thread on topic, I shouldn’t add more to the post. So I won’t say how I think GMDM fits into that picture. Did I have a great Mom or what???

by Steve Nelson on Mar 2, 2010 3:21 PM EST reply actions  

So your mom doesn't want you to say anything...

…about promising CF to Ankiel, and allowing Kendall to remain a starter?

…and also, just so I can mention one of these that worked out some, promising “closer” to Dotel?

by kcemigre on Mar 2, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

right

but money/playing time are already the established givens, I was curious about the other factors, if everything else was the same

by Will McDonald on Mar 2, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

For guys that are in the middle tier that you describe, ...

… I think that the decision will be made in nearly all cases based on dollars offered, playing time, and perhaps overall fit. It’s rare that those mid-tier players will be in a position of having two or more that are sufficiently equal that those other factors will come into play.

When players in that group do make a decision for for reasons that are not strictly economic, it almost always involves being close to home. That might be where the team plays, or, occasionally, where the team has its spring training camp.

by Steve Nelson on Mar 2, 2010 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

that, Steve,

is a really boring and logical way to look at it.

by Crooow on Mar 2, 2010 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Me?

KC hands down. Every other city in the AL Central and I think “cold”.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.

by Warden11 on Mar 2, 2010 3:33 PM EST reply actions  

KC has the best bbq

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Mar 2, 2010 4:06 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Food

I think it would be ridiculously easy for me to get unreasonably fat in Chicago. That’s a preposterously good food city. Italian beef sandwiches, polish sausages, and deep dish pizza alone might send me into Dick Cheney heart failure territory by age 50.

BBQ is one of my favorite things in life. But for the sheer attraction of food, Chicago is the winner hands down.

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

by JM Barten on Mar 2, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

In a traditional definition, probably not

Has more in common with a casserole than a traditional east coast pizza.

But holy crap is it delicious. And that’s what matters.

And if you want to get technical, an Italian Beef isn’t really italian. But it is the best roast beef sandwich you will ever have occasion to eat.

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

by JM Barten on Mar 2, 2010 11:27 PM EST up reply actions  

deep dish pizza is amazing

i can’t imagine somthing less healthy, but its in the running for my last meal

by Will McDonald on Mar 2, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

That's right

Without searching out This Is Why You’re Fat, you would probably have a pretty hard time finding anything that is worse for you.

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

by JM Barten on Mar 3, 2010 2:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Cleveland and Detroit are far and away the worst.

Chicago and Minneapolis are bigger cities with more amenities. KC is the cheapest with a nice high end, IMO, and its very drivable whereas Chicago isn’t so much. Twin Cities are really nice during the summer,but I’d hate to be there at all during the winter for a meeting or anything.

If I was single, Chicago or Minneapolis for sure. KC come into the mix more if you have a family.

by WURoyal on Mar 2, 2010 4:51 PM EST reply actions  

Spent some time in Cleveland

They have a nice neighborhood just west of downtown that has huge, beautiful 100 year old houses that are 5 minutes from the stadium and just across the street from the lake with a nice state park comprising a cleaned up beach. There are a lot of expensive, but stylish restaraunts and shops around there. The warehouse district is also nice for food and nightclubs and that’s just a few minutes away as well. It doesn’t seem like a bad place to live if you’re young, wealthly, and don’t have to suffer through the ridiculous winters (which baseball players don’t have to do).

Then again, it seems to me that the mansion of choice among today’s athletes are more akin to Tony Soprano’s suburban mcmansion than an old colonial with hand crafted walnut accents in the old money part of town. This is a difference between me and today’s athletes.

I have a brother, a cousin, and a bunch of high school friends who live in the Chicago area. This is a natural byproduct of growing up in downstate Illinois. They have a riduculous range of suburban locales to choose from. It would be a great place for an athlete to live provided they don’t mind spending a lot of extra time stuck behind the wheel of their Land Rover on the Dan Ryan.

If I were an athlete, I really wouldn’t mind moving to any of these cities (other than Detroit). But I am a midwesterner who is used to the weather and the particular subculture. I am perfectly content living in Indianapolis, a decidedly unhip metro. So maybe I’m not the best judge.

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

by JM Barten on Mar 2, 2010 4:53 PM EST reply actions  

Quick summary on KC

Agree about its laid-back, media-friendly attitude, but it generalizing KC really depends on the area in which you’re speaking. The area I have lived my entire life (Plaza, Brookside, River Market) could hardly be deemed white guy, hunter, country music…um….country. Quite the opposite, in fact. Once you head out far into JoCo, then you’ll encounter some genuine backwoodsedness, so to write.

Also, a correct perception of GREATER KC: it’s nightlife is dwarfed by that of similar markets. People here generally don’t go out…especially on the weekdays. This coincides with several factors: low unemployment rate, % of stable couples, and % of younger people vs. married people. It’s an old, laid-back, couples town. Not necessarily anything wrong with that. But it vastly differs from my ideal factors in a city. If I could theoretically live anywhere in the US, it would not be Kansas City. Not that I necessarily dislike living here. Practically all of my connections are here. But if I had a blank slate and a choice…..I’d probably choose differently.

by Royals Nation on Mar 2, 2010 11:46 PM EST reply actions  

Several other factors

It markets itself, generally, as a large sprawling “town”, not a “city.” However, Jackson County is not the rural, backwoods, Trucker Bob county people might consider it. There’s a crystal clear difference between the inner city and perhaps the suburbs located close to the city (Grandview, Fairway, Mission, parts of NKC, Independence) and the rural areas and hardcore suburbs (Lee’s Summit, Liberty, most of Johnson County, KS). People here do get married younger and married life is generally supported. IMO, it’s because of several factors: a)

Several other random city factors: The transportation system is a mess. Not only is there a lack of public transit, but the city is too spread out. The planning sucked…they didn’t anticipate growth in certain areas. The highway routes are a cluster****. Generally speaking, it is more “rural” (I know that’s a vague term) than most cities….case in point, the proximity of the Truman Sports Complex to, um, the “city.” However, this doesn’t apply to most of Jackson County.

The water quality is top notch; the air pollution is medium to good, despite the fact that the Missouri River and Brush Creek look dirtier than a 2004 Johnny Damon used bathtub. The amount of eateries/restaurants/potential “hot spots” generally isn’t a problem. However, they generally don’t stay open past certain times because people here fall asleep by 7pm. Like most cities, you have the authenticity of inner-city hotspots (Plaza, Westport, Brookside, some of Downtown) and the insincerity of tacky corporate hubbubs (Town Center, Zona Rosa, Rosanna Square, etc.)

Anyway, sorry for rambling.

by Royals Nation on Mar 2, 2010 11:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Whoops, forgot to cite those factors for married couples

a) Wanting to emulate their parents, who live in the area and whose standard of living is far more ‘conservative’ than that of a 2010 American. and b) Needing to feel loved and safe in a market so isolated from many other major cities. Divorce rate here is also higher. I wonder why??????

by Royals Nation on Mar 2, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe the divorce rate is higher simply because a larger proportion of couples get married

If they didn’t get married in the first place, there wouldn’t be a divorce when they decide to separate.

by Steve Nelson on Mar 3, 2010 12:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I tend to agree

I admit I’m biased because I witnessed a thoroughly Royal-like marriage in my older years in my parents, who both married at ages 23 and 22, respectively. Granted, that wasn’t that young in the 1970s.

I think a larger percentage of couples marry and they also tend to marry too young. Numerous research has shown that eventual unhappiness in marriage coincides with human instinct. The same research has explained that marrying too young tends to elevate divorce rate. Immaturity, romanticizing of the future, the rush to “be happy” and settle with a less than optimal partner, shall we say, a number of other factors explain the eventual unhappiness. 80% of relationships involve a cheating or cheated partner. That number skyrockets with younger couples. There’s also an issue with pregnancy at a less than optimal age. What’s wrong with dating in your 20s? I’m not saying I would not marry in several years if I truly found the right person but objectivity in key (I’m 23). Unfortunately, in the Midwest, in my opinion, there is far too little. IMO, it coincides with devoutness and it coincides with a conservative (not politically speaking) lifestyle.

There is nothing wrong with having partners and dating. I’ve done so myself. Rushing into marriage, though, with less than optimal circumstances, is a far different scenario. I’m sorry if I’m pissing anyone off here but my parents also married young and I have many family members who gave birth at a young age. A good friend of mine moved in with his girlfriend while she was 20. Marriage was and is in the works. He cheated on her many times. She wept. He kept discussing the need to be single. Another friend of mine is considering marrying a woman with shall we say, baggage.

IMO, people are much happier, say, in New York City, where people date or stay single far later. Cheating is less common, premature pregnancy is less common, divorce is less common, unhappy marriages are less common, and the complications of child custody are less common. Perhaps NYRoyal can elaborate on this point. Again, if you’re getting married….I wish you all the best. Perhaps I’ll get married someday. But stop and THINK!

by Royals Nation on Mar 3, 2010 12:49 AM EST up reply actions  

yes, I can tell you after having lived in NYC for seven years

That your depiction is quite accurate. New York City is basically full of very happy, single people enjoying casual sex in a consequence free environment. Just like Friends, basically, which, as you know was the most realistic portrayal of young, single (and white!) New York City life ever produced. Pretty sure it was a documentary.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Mar 3, 2010 2:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Jason Kendall is basically Ross Gellar

with terrifying arm tattoos and, I would guess, less power

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Mar 3, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

First hand experience?
IMO, people are much happier, say, in New York City, where people date or stay single far later. Cheating is less common, premature pregnancy is less common, divorce is less common, unhappy marriages are less common, and the complications of child custody are less common.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.

by Warden11 on Mar 3, 2010 7:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm glad I was somewhat right about something

as a non-native, I didn’t want to embarass myself

my wife and I have really enjoyed KC when we’ve been, I can definitely see the appeal of it

by Will McDonald on Mar 3, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions  

If you're not already from the Midwest

Chicago sounds like the only appealing choice in the Central. The others are too small or cold or deteriorating or non-diverse or uncool. But, as Will rightly said, guys make their choices based mostly on money and playing time. Otherwise no one would play for Detroit.

Other factors might be 1) the team’s chances for the next couple of seasons, since guys want to play for winning teams that make the playoffs and have a shot at the Series 2) the player’s desire to work with, or stay away from, a particular coach or manager 3) the player’s impression of the professionalism of the organization (would you sign with the Raiders if you had a choice?) 4) a player’s agent pushing him toward one team in order to build up credit with them in the Favor Bank.

It's pronounced Poo-ZHOLS in Catalan.

by Juancho on Mar 5, 2010 9:31 AM EST reply actions  

I believe

Noel Arguelles cited the opportunity to advance more quickly as one reason for choosing the Royals. If he can see that surely a ML free agent can.

Of course, if you’re Johnny Damon, you sign with Detroit because your agent screwed up your brain.

Murphy was an optimist.

by The Ol' Perfesser on Mar 6, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

That's much what I was trying to say upthread ...

… but I probably didn’t say it clearly.

If the contract terms are the same, the decision will most often be made on the basis of opportunity to play or the desire to be part of playoff team. Or something else related to what happens on the ballfield or in the team management.

Only rarely does it get down to factors such as quality of life. And when it does, the most common factor cited is playing closer to home.

by Steve Nelson on Mar 7, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

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