Gil Meche, What is His Problem?
Gil Meche is not off to the start that any of us expect nor wanted. I will see if I can find out why he is doing so bad. I will start at my home away from Royals Review, Fangraphs and look at a few of his stats:
| Season | Team | IP | ERA | FIP | xFIP | BABIP | LOB% | K/9 | BB/9 | HR/9 | HR/FB | LD% | GB% | FB% |
| 2007 | Royals | 216 | 3.67 | 4.02 | 4.21 | 0.302 | 73.40% | 6.5 | 2.58 | 0.92 | 9.20% | 17.8% | 46.8% | 35.4% |
| 2008 | Royals | 210.1 | 3.98 | 3.61 | 3.99 | 0.311 | 71.50% | 7.83 | 3.12 | 0.81 | 7.90% | 22.0% | 39.2% | 38.8% |
| 2009 | Royals | 129 | 5.09 | 4.76 | 4.56 | 0.321 | 68.40% | 6.63 | 4.05 | 1.19 | 11.90% | 16.8% | 48.8% | 34.4% |
| 2010 | Royals | 12.2 | 11.37 | 6.81 | 6.37 | 0.372 | 53.20% | 4.97 | 8.53 | 1.42 | 13.30% | 20.4% | 49.0% | 30.6% |
First, this is just three starts and 12.2 IP so all the data we are dealing with is a small sample size. Gil's ERA is through the roof at 11.37, but his FIPs (6.81) and xFIPs (6.37) are about half of that level. The reason for the high ERA is that Gil is allowing a high BABIP that is 50 points higher than any previous season with the Royals. With the higher BABIP, the the LOB% is much lower, about 105 less than any of the past 3 seasons.
Gils extremely high ERA can be explained away, but a FIPS around 6.81 is in the Jose Lima range. Gils K/9 innings is down from 6.63 last season to 4.97 this season. Also his base on balls per 9 innings has gone from 4.05 to 8.53. Gil's walk rate has increase each year he has be with the Royals. Finally, his home runs are up a 1.19 HR/9 and 13.3 HR/FB. Homeruns are not the problem here, giving up more than 2.5 extra walks compared to strikeouts is the key.
Finally looking at his batted ball data, the number of pretty similar from previous seasons except that Gil is giving up a few more linedrives vice fly balls. The increase in line drives would explain the some of the reason for the increase in BABIP shown earlier.
After getting done with the basic stats, I will now see if any of his pitches are causing any issues.
Here is how often Gil is throwing his various pitches and results:
| Season | Team | FB | SL | CB | CH | wFB/C | wSL/C | wCB/C | wCH/C | Swing Strike % |
| 2007 | Royals | 48.4% (92.2) | 15.8% (87.5) | 22.2% (77.3) | 13.6% (83.0) | -0.37 | 0.17 | 1.17 | 2.52 | 8.00% |
| 2008 | Royals | 54.5% (92.3) | 16.6% (88.3) | 17.8% (78.6) | 11.1% (83.7) | 0.64 | 0.62 | 0.06 | 0.73 | 9.50% |
| 2009 | Royals | 53.1% (92.4) | 18.6% (87.0) | 19.2% (77.1) | 9.1% (83.7) | -0.38 | -1.46 | 0.1 | -3.5 | 7.20% |
| 2010 | Royals | 50.0% (92.4) | 18.6% (86.7) | 18.6% (77.3) | 12.8% (83.7) | -6.19 | -2.92 | 1.04 | 6.82 | 4.30% |
The percentages thrown are the same this year as in previous years, but his results on his fastball have been horrible. The value of -6 means that for ever 100 fast balls he throws, he averages 6 worse (more) runs than the league average.
I added one other value here and that is the swinging strike percentage. I have a feeling this is going to reference more and more show how good a pitcher is at missing the bat. As you can see, Gil's values are less than half they were just 2 years ago.
Finally a look at Gils individual pitches speeds and movement:
| Season | FA-Vel | FA-X | FA-Z | CU-Vel | CU-X | CU-Z | CH-Vel | CH-X | CH-Z | SL-Vel | SL-X | SL-Z |
| 2007 | 92.1 | -4.7 | 11 | 77.3 | 4.5 | -8.1 | 82.8 | -8 | 8.1 | 87.2 | 2 | 4.9 |
| 2008 | 92.3 | -4.1 | 11.8 | 78.7 | 4.3 | -6.6 | 83.6 | -6.6 | 8.5 | 87.8 | 2.4 | 5.8 |
| 2009 | 92.3 | -5.5 | 10.7 | 77 | 3.5 | -9.1 | 83.8 | -6.2 | 7.8 | 86.6 | 1.5 | 3.8 |
| 2010 | 92.3 | -5 | 10.9 | 77.2 | 3.5 | -8.8 | 83.6 | -5 | 7.4 | 86.2 | 2.2 | 2.9 |
Gill is getting the exact same speed and close to the same movement on all is pitches. He seems to be physically throwing the same. Now I will head over to TexasLeaguers.com and get some pitch placements. Not looking good for Gil here:
He doesn't seem to be getting too hosed over by the umpire, he is just not putting it across the plate.
Conclusions
Here are the main points to takeout of the preceding about Gil:
- He is walking many more batters because he is not putting the ball across the plate
- He is striking out less batters because he is not putting the ball across the plate
Tom Tango a few months ago did a great piece on predicting runs allowed by only using walk and strikeout rate. He found that there was a 75 correlation between strikeout rate minus walk rate and runs allowed. In my humble opinion there seem to be nothing wrong with Gil expect is inability to put the ball over home plate.
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now this is real analysis. Maybe someday I’ll be able to do something like it.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
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hopefully just still in ST mode
it doesn’t appear he’s hurt, which is a good sign. also a good sign is that the training staff seemed to competently manage his shoulder issue.
perhaps a landing point issue, or just not in game shape yet, coupled with a little bit of bad luck.
it’s early, so we’ll see.
"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Apr 24, 2010 1:18 PM EDT reply actions
Great post
Although I like the idea of his numbers being so bad that they “threw the roof,” i think you meant “through the roof”
"I think a tactical error might have been committed by the manager of the Royals"
Is Gil's velocity still up?
If so, could he just be overthrowing the ball right now?
Also what is the general feeling about Verlander, he is not pitching well at all.
Sometimes the best way to convince someone he is wrong is to let him have his way. --- Red O'Donnell
Ah hell... I really should read stuff before I post
Sometimes the best way to convince someone he is wrong is to let him have his way. --- Red O'Donnell
by averagegatsby on Apr 24, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Granted, O-Dog's Liner
Was well struck, but Rocky channeling Lonnie “Skates” Smith in CF probably cost Gil the second out of the inning and saddled him with a runner. I think it was Morneau who was jammed, broke his bat, and Callaspo’s limited range turned it into an RBi single. By all rights, he should have been out of the inning before that even occurred. There are other issues at work, but plain bad luck explains some of Gil’s problems.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
so what do we make of this?
it’d be one thing if it was simply a matter of velocity or bad luck or something like that
is loss of control a portent of things to come?
too bad we can't see into his intentions or lack thereof
option one is that he’s losing control b/c of degrading from age/injury, but speculative option 2 would be that he’s not willing to give hitters a pitch to hit, b/c he doesn’t trust his stuff and/or his defense.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Apr 24, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Projections and other stuff
Will, ZiPS Rest-of-Season seems to think he’ll come around to 4.20 FIP for the rest of the season (although the 4.89 ERA is less promising).
On the other hand, he’s striking out less than 5 batters/9, and walking more than 8, so far in this small sample. FIP and xFIP both line up at over 6, and his tERA is over 7. The lack of swinging strikeouts (which peaked in 2008, decreases last season, and is way down so far this year) is distressing.
It’s early, but given Meche’s past health problems, age, and history, this story doesn’t look like it’s going to have a happy ending. Barring a monster couple of months, he’s not going to bring back anything decent in a trade, and so on. Even leaving aside whether it was realistic that the Royals could have competed during Meche’s tenure in KC, there’s an increasingly significant chance (if not likely,yet) that despite the good first two years, this contract will be an overall net loss for KC by the end, considered just in its own right.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 24, 2010 2:06 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
thats the bitch of a 5 year deal
especially considering many pitcher injury issues tend to eat away at parts of multiple seasons
of course, we all assumed that, when meche was signed, $12 million dollars would be like nothing in 2010 and 2011
More evidence
that when a team is a ways away from contention, that even a “good” deal isn’t necessarily a good idea for more than a few years, especially for a pitcher, and especially when “the plan” sucks.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 24, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course when the plan sucks
All those variables (and more!) are back in play. That’s pretty much how I feel attempting to analyze Daytonball.
Twitter: awolfson0
My concern is that the decline started last year
As you say, we’re not just looking at a 12.2 inning sample in 2010. The trend-lines have been down since 2008.
I know what I'd do if I were manager
I'd just throw him for 132 pitches his next time out
BOOM! ROASTED!
Yeah, but I assume that, given Trey's Japanese experience
Gil already threw a 60 pitch bullpen session after the game last night
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 24, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm just an advanced stat dabbler,
But do you think 12 innings is enough of a sample size to be able to say some of this definitively? I mean, 12.2 IP. I guess, and this is a question I have for many other in-season statistics (with a few exceptions) — at what point do the statistics become significant?
by powderbluepower on Apr 24, 2010 4:40 PM EDT reply actions
It varies from stat to stat
yes, generally, for “skill stats” like K, BB, FB, GB, rates, etc. it’s waaay too early. I can’t speak for Jeff, but I take this as just just looking at what Meche is doing so far that might be the same/different as before.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 24, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice piece.
Question: If Gil should start throwing strikes, how many of them would be lined into the gap, or worse, over the left-field wall? I’m afraid he might be toast.
POD WILL EXPLOD!!!!1!!
I think he should find out.
The BB/K rate is out of hand right now. If he remains at current rate, he will not last.
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Apr 24, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
his shoulder is toast guys
that’s why he can no longer throw strikes, from my limited understanding this is a common side effect of guys with shoulder injuries / recovering from shoulder injuries. half cocked prediction: gil meche is having shoulder surgery within a week +/- of the all star break. all you have to do is watch him pitch and realize he looks like a shell of his former self. no fastball confidence, curveball all over the place, leaning on his shitty slider…yeah.
-
This is why we miss Buck!!!
He isn’t locating, his fastball is getting recognized and smashed even though it might be a bit faster, and his change up is doing pretty good.
Is it harder on ones shoulder to throw a change up than a fast ball? It seems he might want to start throwing the changer more.
- .... .- - .----. ... / .-- .... .- - / ... .... . / ... .- .. -..
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Apr 26, 2010 12:56 PM EDT reply actions
has anyone
analyzed his mechanics to see if anything has changed? sometimes a small tweak can have a dramatic effect
McClure
It’s stuff like this that has me convinced McClure doesn’t know what he is going. Hillman is treating him like a rented mule.

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