Career Retrospective on Some of the 2000 Royals Batters
by Jeff Zimmerman on May 16, 2010 9:34 PM EDT
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Recently in a thread over the Royals section at Scout.com there was a discussion that Damon is getting near 3000 hits. The 3000 hit milestone usually means the player will get heavy consideration for the Hall of Fame.
This got me thinking of the respectable offensive teams the Royals had around the turn of the century. I decided to compare the careers so far of 5 hitters from the 2000 team, Jermaine Dye, Mike Sweeney, Joe Randa, Carlos Beltran and Johnny Damon.
The following graph compares the seasonal WAR (Rally's data) of the 5 players, looking at the players best season to the worst (lifetime total WAR is in parenthesis). The gray band is literally the "gray area" that marks the area where 20% to 50% of the elected players in the Hall of Fame fall between. Historically, anyone above this mark is a sure fire Hall of Famer while anyone below it has very slim chances to make the Hall of Fame.
Thoughts
- Looks like Beltran should have decent consideration for the Hall of Fame, especially if he can put in a 3-4 more more years of 2-4 WAR years.
- Damon is flirting just below the acceptance line. Getting the 3000 hits will for sure help his chances.
- I was really surprised how close the other 3 were grouped. Sweeney's and Dye's line look very similar to begin with. Dye's went negative (mainly do to atrocious fielding) and Sweeney had a bunch of years near 0 years as his back prevented him from playing. Randa's high weren't as high as the other 2, but his lows were not as low.
These players got brought together after seasons of having no hitting and decent pitching. That team scored 879 runs (all time team record), almost 200 more than each of the last three teams, but they allowed 930 runs (another all time team record). Same usual story, even when the Royals are at their best, they are still losers.
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Interesting.
Looks like Damon and Beltrán have legitimate HOF chances. Looking back at 2000, it’s pretty clear that the Royals should have locked up those two and maybe Randa, who would have been cheaper, to long-term contracts, and dealt Dye and Sweeney.
It’s not total 20/20 hindsight, either; who were the most athletic of that group of five? Who had the most young-player (speed, defense, and hitting for average) skills? Who had the most potential for development (power, plate discipline)? I think we’d have all picked Beltrán first and Damon second, if anyone had asked us at the time.
POD WILL EXPLOD!!!!1!!
randa was a huge dissapointment
not his play, but the complete lack of respect he got and how he was valued. I’ve always said if you give me a lineup of Joe Randa’s we win at least the division. He was a guy that did every aspect of the game respectibly or better. Instead we seem to go for guys that (supposidly) do one thing really well at the expense of eveyrthing else.
~~~Damn, I wish i had a clever signature
people did
i never felt that the team showed him much respect. there is the rumor that dan glass blocked a trade, but other than that it just always seemed like he was just an old guy that cost too much.
~~~Damn, I wish i had a clever signature
it might be largely the shoes he filled
he essentially spent his royals career being compared to george brett. An unfair comparison for anyone.
the team gave away billy butler jerseys before billy had a full season. They’ve given away TPJ and Alex Gordon bobbleheads, John buck jerseys. I could be wrong (it happens) but I dont think I’ve ever seen anything with Joe’s name on it.
~~~Damn, I wish i had a clever signature
There was also a bring up Kit Pellow push during that time.
Looking back Randa and Rey Sanchez were under appreciated.
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on May 16, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Randa was also a guy
That was basically a NRI that we brought in, that ended up showing he was pretty darn good. And I think every year, many thought it was a fluke, and every year he kept proving people wrong.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on May 17, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
If Beltran comes back from surgery and plays well
Then he has a decent shot. He definitely has the skills, but he just has to be out there long enough to produce and put up the stats to make the cut.
I’ve been hearing in the last couple years (especially since being with the Yankees) that Damon has a legitimate shot at making the Hall. At first, I thought it was ridiculous. When I starting seeing stats like this, though, it made me realize that he’s had a slower decline than other players, which could take him into and maybe past the gray area, likely making his lifetime stats right in the gray area. I still see it as questionable that he makes it. If he pumps out 150 hits or so this season (not too much to expect with 36 in 37 games so far), it’ll put him at 2575 for his career. 3000 will be tough to reach, but if he plays two or three more strong years, he could get another 350-400 hits, if not more, and at least get very close to that level. With decent defense or a spot as a DH (if Vizquel can, anyone can), then he could get the career WAR number in the gray range and be in the discussion.
by MinnesotaRoyal on May 16, 2010 11:01 AM EDT reply actions
dye's atrocious fielding?
he won a gold glove, doesnt that mean he’s good? … damn how does that sarcasm font work again?
~~~Damn, I wish i had a clever signature
I can still see that injury
I watched that game live and still remember how the ball hit his leg. One of the craziest things I’ve ever seen.
by MinnesotaRoyal on May 16, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
there may be some of that
but on the other hand I think he was kinda like Yuni in that he had plus hands and when he got to balls he made the play look difficult, and he had plus hands. He didnt make a lot of mistakes and his arm was amazing. but his range was always horrible.
~~~Damn, I wish i had a clever signature
Leg injury?
did that bastard DiMaggio Beltran cause it?
She said "are you stupid or just apathetic?"
I said "I don't know and I don't care"
by Royal Kingdom on May 17, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Beltran and Damon both have legitimate shots
But Beltran’s playoff performance for the Astros likely puts him over the top. Without that, I think he’d have serious trouble getting in if he doesn’t get healthy and start putting up some decent numbers on the backside of his career.
Johnny Damon is just in a race against time. If he gets 3000 hits, he’ll get in. If he doesn’t, I don’t know that he will based on his subpar defense. He needs 41 homers for 250 and 24 steals for 400. Are those numbers HOF worthy? Maybe, but his 105 Career OPS+ doesn’t really impress me. I’ve always liked Johnny, but I think he’s a very borderline candidate at best, even with 3000 hits. The WS titles in Boston and NY may give him a push over the top as well though. Voters like winners.
Unfortunately I think he gave back all the love from the Astros season
by taking one pitch while with the Mets. Plus I’m not sure he’s ever fully shed some of those ‘lazy and doesnt care’ stereotypes nationally. It’s a shame, he’s always been one of my favorites.
Beltran's career is in pretty serious jeopardy though isn't it?
There was talk he may never play again. I think he’ll come back but I think the odds are good he won’t be the same kind of player. I’m guessing he’ll lose a lot of speed, and if he doesn’t bulk up and become more of a power hitter, that will hurt much of his value.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
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