Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

Dayton's Free Agents vs. Free Talent

A much discussed concept in sabermetric circles is the concept of freely available talent. The vice of many General Managers is the willingness to pay millions of dollars for production that could be matched by freely available talent - players acquired off waivers, minor league free agency, or through the Rule 5 draft.

I wanted to take a look at how Dayton has fare through both strategies. You would expect the free agents to have the upper hand on quality, with the advantage of freely available talent being quantity.

For purposes of this exercise, I defined "freely available talent" as anyone that was acquired off waivers, minor league free agency, the Rule 5 draft, or inconsequential trades. Value is listed in Wins Above Replacement (WAR).

 

Jason-kendall-adderall_medium

"Grit ain't free man."

Star-divide

2007 Free Agents
Gil Meche 4.4
John Bale 1.0.
David Riske 0.4
Octavio Dotel 0.2
Total: 6.0

Total cost: $16,200,000

2007 Freely Available Talent
Joakim Soria 2.4
Tony Pena 1.3
John Thomson 0.3
Brandon Duckworth 0.3
Jason Smith –0.1
Luke Hudson –0.2
Neal Musser –0.2
Todd Wellemyer –0.4
Total: 3.4

Remember these halcyon days when everything Dayton touched turned to gold? The Gil Meche deal,
roundly mocked by the stats community, was looking like a steal. Dayton was praised for assembling a
good pen combined with free agent vets and freely available talent including the biggest feather in his cap–
Joakim Soria.

2008 Free Agents
Gil Meche 5.0
Miguel Olivo 1.1
Brett Tomko 0.6
John Bale 0.6
Ron Mahay 0.5
Jose Guillen –0.1
Yasuhika Yabuta –0.1
Total: 7.6

Total cost: $36,500,000

2008 Freely Available Talent

Joakim Soria 1.6
Brandon Duckworth 0.5
Robinson Tejada 0.5
Horacio Ramirez 0.4
Jeff Fulchino 0.0
Josh Newman –0.1
Kip Wells –0.1
Jason Smith –0.1
Hideo Nomo –0.3
Tony Pena –1.7
Total: 0.7

The freely available talent is completely carried by Soria, as Dayton pretty much brought in only stiffs to fill out the roster and Tony Pena cratered. Free agent Jose Guillen was underwhelming despite his RBI total, but Gil continued to shine and lower cost free agents like Mugiel Olivo and Ron Mahay played well.

2009 Free Agents
Miguel Olivo 2.0
Gil Meche 1.5
Kyle Farnsworth 0.7
Willie Bloomquist 0.0
Juan Cruz 0.0
Yasuhika Yabuta –0.1
Doug Waechter –0.1
Ron Mahay –0.3
Jose Guillen –1.8

Total: 1.9

Total Cost: $42,100,000

2009 Freely Available Talent

Joakim Soria 1.8
Robinson Tejada 1.3
Sidney Ponson 0.7
Brayan Pena 0.4
Bruce Chen 0.1
Jamey Wright 0.1
Roman Colon –0.1
Ryan Freel –0.2
Anthony Lerew –0.2
Victor Marte –0.2
Josh Anderson –0.3
Tug Hulett –0.4
Luis Hernandez –0.4
Tony Pena –0.9
Total: 1.7

The free agents took a huge hit with Meche getting hurt, Farnsy sucking and Guillen almost dying. Meanwhile, Robinson Tejada turned out to be a gem, Sidney Ponson was much better than anyone expected and Brayan Pena was allowed to play once in awhile, with good results. The case for keeping money away from Dayton was getting much stronger.

2010 Free Agents
Jose Guillen 1.3
Scott Podsednik 0.6
Jason Kendall 0.5
Kyle Farnsworth 0.5
Rick Ankiel –0.1
Gil Meche –0.2
Willie Bloomquist –0.4
Total: 2.2

Total cost (half-season): $18,000,000

2010 Freely Available Talent
Wilson Betimet 1.0
Joakim Soria 0.9
Robinson Tejada 0.8
Bruce Chen 0.6
Kanekoa Texeira 0.1
Josh Rupe 0.0
Brayan Pena –0.2
Brad Thompson –0.2
Bryan Bullington –0.2
Anthony Lerew –0.3
John Parrish –0.4
Victor Marte –0.5
Luis Mendoza –0.6
Total: 1.0

Dayton’s eye for freely available talent was rejuvenated as pickups like Bruce Chen, Kanekoa Texeiera and Wilson Betimet looked brilliant. Meanwhile, the free agents didn’t horribly suck, but they didn’t do much other than serve as placeholders. Oh, and they showed the kids how to play the game "the right way."

To conclude, I think Dayton has an eye for freely available talent, and should probably utilize the strategy more often. I don't think his free agent strategy of 2010 - lower cost bargains that can start - is not a bad strategy provided that you don't have cheaper in-house options (which he did). Its also interesting to note that nearly all of the freely available talent that were useful at all were pitchers - either suggesting it is harder to find useful hitters on the cheap or that Dayton didn't give such players an opportunity in Kansas City. So perhaps Dayton should stick to cheapish free agent hitters like Miguel Olivo and Scott Podsednik, and leave the pitching staff to cycle through freely available talent looking for the next Robinson Tejeda.

Comment 56 comments  |  9 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Nice post

I was not aware that TPJ was worth 1.3 WAR at any point in his career. That point alone was worth reading this for.

I wholeheartedly agree and that’s why I get so frustrated with GMDM’s acquisitions. He finds these major leaguers that could supposedly be useful to the club while he has such a better track record with finding reasonably effective to very useful freely available talent. I never looked up the data to prove it, but there it is. He spent so much on free agents this offseason, but what freely available talent (besides the obvious) could he have found this offseason to make any impact this year? It’s an honest question; not sure what players outside of the system would be useful.

"You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes."

by MinnesotaRoyal on Jul 12, 2010 3:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Freely available players available this past winter

Austin Kearns (0.9 WAR)
Jonny Gomes (-0.1….but 2.7 on hitting)
Joaquin Benoit (0.9)

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 12, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jonny Gomes could've been an interesting DH...

If not for that Jose Guillen guy. And Kila, etc.

"You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes."

by MinnesotaRoyal on Jul 12, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would be interesting to see the $/WAR for each category

The info’s there, and I can eyeball it, though

Would you like to follow me on Twitter, Facebook, or my blog...well you can't.

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jul 12, 2010 3:32 PM EDT reply actions  

I guess you'd have to figure out the cost of each "free" player, which would be cumbersome

But for the FA’s the info’s there.

Would you like to follow me on Twitter, Facebook, or my blog...well you can't.

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jul 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just assume around 400K for each (league min)

The data though should be available at Cots Contracts

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on Jul 12, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah, good idea

Would you like to follow me on Twitter, Facebook, or my blog...well you can't.

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jul 12, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brett Tomko had positive WAR?

Let's just trust the process.

by trusttheprocess on Jul 12, 2010 3:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Completely Random OT:

Im watching a special on Bruce Lee on the History Channel. And they are talking about the cross over between the old school Karate and early Hip Hop culture, well Eddie Griffin (or as you may know him as Undercover Brother" was wearing a Royals hat… The most random fandom since I found out Sheed Wallace was a Chiefs fan.

C'MON CHEN!!! ---Will Ferrell

by averagegatsby on Jul 12, 2010 3:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Eddie Griffin is from KC

He had a show on WB briefly where he and Malcolm Jamal Warner owned a bar in KC. They had a lot of Chiefs stuff on the wall.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 12, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice work

I spend the day looking at Royal’s history and you go looking at WAR. Nice role reversal.

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on Jul 12, 2010 3:46 PM EDT reply actions  

We should all switch it up a bit

Will can write up the top minor league performers, while Dubya writes about radio affiliates. And maybe NYRoyal can write about how Dayton Moore is a brilliant GM that has the Royals on the right track.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 12, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoa, Big Fella

Don’t get crazy on us.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 12, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great read

One interesting note: Soria makes up 98.5% of the value for the freely available talent.

Soria 2007-10: 6.7 WAR.

Total 2007-10 Freely Available Talent: 6.8 WAR.

by Gopherballs on Jul 12, 2010 3:50 PM EDT reply actions  

And he was arguably the least risk too

He had a return label on his jersey when he arrived. Thankfully it wasn’t needed.

If only some others on these lists had a return to sender option.

by kcbottom9th on Jul 12, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought he might skew things a bit.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 12, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

And in the same vein

Gil Meche takes up 60% of the value of the free agents (10.7/17.7 WAR)

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 12, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sorry, what you said makes too much sense,

therefore I’ll stomp my feet and whine and cry that you’re just being negative for the sake of being negative.

by scobes on Jul 12, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously you don't follow the minor leagues

by 2012, there won’t be need to fill out the roster — the system is just that deep

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs and Beyond the Box Score.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

We should add in

the “readily available” talent that come from the system that are just as productive as the free agents brought it like Maier, Aviles, Kila…oh wait, not the last one.

by scobes on Jul 12, 2010 3:57 PM EDT reply actions  

this was really cool

thanks

Given enough velocity even a pig will fly

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 12, 2010 4:13 PM EDT reply actions  

The strongest point I took from this

…was how good a signing Meche was before Hillman shredded his arm. Moore should be held at least indirectly responsible for this (I also remember reading somewhere that he asked Hillman and McClure to “stretch out” the starting rotation for the 2009 season—does this ring any bells with anyone else?), but even so, being 11 WAR in his first three seasons, Meche was worth the money because he was so good his first two years.

Some might take away from this a cautionary tale against signing pitchers for contracts any longer than 3-4 years (see also: Brown, Hampton, Zito, et al), but I get the feeling Meche probably could have stayed worth his salary if Hillman hadn’t gone all Tony Muser on his arm.

by DarthYoshi on Jul 12, 2010 4:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Meche already had a significant history of injuries and abuse before he signed with the Royals

In his early to mid-20s, Meche missed two years due to two separate separate labrum surgeries. At that time, pitchers rarely came back from such injuries. Meche was also a product of the meatgrinder known as the Mariners farm system in the late 1990s and early 2000s that notoriously abused pitching prospects.

Long-term contracts for pitchers are rarely a good idea.

by Gopherballs on Jul 12, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

And even then

Meche is probably the best signing out of his class. That is the infamous Gary Matthews Jr./Alfonso Soriano/Barry Zito/Miguel Batista/Jason Schmidt orgy of foolish contracts.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 12, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jeff Suppan

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on Jul 12, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

No citation, but...
I also remember reading somewhere that he asked Hillman and McClure to "stretch out" the starting rotation for the 2009 season—does this ring any bells with anyone else?

I also recall that. It seems like there was a DM or Hillman quote to that effect in a Dutton article at the time.

by kcemigre on Jul 12, 2010 5:10 PM EDT reply actions  

GMDM et al looked at teams (Texas, in particular, I believe) that had their pitchers

“training” for higher pitchcounts by increasing their workloads starting in spring training. It had seemed to work for Texas, so the Royals started integrating it.

Would you like to follow me on Twitter, Facebook, or my blog...well you can't.

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jul 12, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought there was something about this during Spring Training THIS season

“1000 innings from the starting rotation!”

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs and Beyond the Box Score.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Jul 13, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I remember that...

1001 Innings - a compilation of tales from the 2010 Royals

Translated in English as Arabian Innings

We have met the enemy, and he is us.

by Royal Kingdom on Jul 13, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Would Rany be writing it?

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Jul 14, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nice post
Its also interesting to note that nearly all of the freely available talent that were useful at all were pitchers – either suggesting it is harder to find useful hitters on the cheap or that Dayton didn’t give such players an opportunity in Kansas City

I think it’s more of the latter and less of the former.

A quick and dirty FAT review of the former regime: Baird found FAT hitters like Raul Ibanez (4.4 WAR over 3 years), Emil Brown (4.3 WAR over 3 years), and Esteban German (1.7 WAR over 3 years) but not nearly as much in FAT pitching.

Notable Baird FAT pitching finds:
   = Jose Lima (1.0 WAR over 1/2 season – He’d go in the free agent column during for the 2005 disaster)
   = Joel Peralta (1.5 WAR over 3 seasons: 0.8, 1.2, -0.5)
   = Andy Sisco (0.9 WAR over 2 seasons – 1 good one of 1.9, 1 bad one of -1.0)
   = Joe Nelson (0.7 WAR over 1 season)
   = Luke Hudson (0.7 WAR over 2 seasons)
   = Jaime Cerda (0.6 WAR over 2 seasons)
   = Nate Field (0.2 WAR over 2 seasons)

One interesting aspect I found when looking through the data — most of the FAT pitchers had a year or two of moderate production before imploding. However, in order to get the best production out of the FAT, it seems that you need to be willing to swap guys often until you find one who ‘fits’, and be willing to dump them when the effectiveness wears off.

Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed

by Top Ramen on Jul 12, 2010 5:40 PM EDT reply actions  

German doesn't count as FAT

We traded for him, though I forget who.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Jul 12, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

As Retro said, FAT includes "inconsequential trades"

If you cannot remember who the Royals traded for German, that certainly fits the definition.

by Gopherballs on Jul 12, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fabio Castro, directly from the Rule 5 draft

essentially the Royals traded the Rule 5 pick, which would definitely count as FAT

Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed

by Top Ramen on Jul 12, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, I missed the "inconsequential trades"

in the last paragraph, I was looking at the definition of FAT in the first paragraph, which does not include them.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Jul 12, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Forgot Paul Byrd

6.6 WAR over 2 years

Unless I'm wrong...
My Twitter feed

by Top Ramen on Jul 12, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

On further review

Ramon Ramirez and his 1.9 WAR in 2008 should count too, as he was acquired just before the Rockies designated him for assignment and was essentially traded for Jorge de la Rosa who had cleared waivers after being designated for assignment himself.

by Gopherballs on Jul 12, 2010 5:47 PM EDT reply actions  

I thought about including him

But I thought DLR was a bit too consequential seeing as how he was a rotation guy and that was essentially a trade. Its debatable I suppose.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 12, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it is not clear cut

I would lean toward including him because at the time Ramirez was acquired, it was a for a PTBNL, who just happened to end up being JDLR (after he was designated for assignment, cleared waivers, and assigned to the minor leagues). No one claimed JDLR because he was out of options, and no one wanted him on the major league roster.

by Gopherballs on Jul 13, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have been corrected in the past for making this assumption...

….apparently, JDLR and R.Ram. were not each-other’s PTBNLs. No one has ever explained this to me in a way that I understand, but the club made clear at the time that they did not trade JDLR for R.Ram. I don’t know why they would bother. And I don’t have any idea “future considerations” were in those deals… cash, I guess.

I still sort of think of them as a swap, though, since if you think of it that way, DM actually traded Tony Graffanino for Coco Crisp (with those guys functioning as the intermediary transactions).

by kcemigre on Jul 13, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

How was TPJ "freely available"?

Didn’t we trade Erik Cordier to get him?

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Jul 12, 2010 6:11 PM EDT reply actions  

You Are Correct

In looking it up on BR, I came across TPJ’s comparables.
Ron Gardenhire (972)
Marr Phillips (972)
Coot Veal (971)
Ed Holly (970)
Howdy Caton (968)
Alan Strange (968)
Jimmy Pofahl (966)
Jose Valdivielso (966)
Phil Tomney (965)
Bobby Mattick

It seems like there’s always one great name in a player’s list; TPJ has a Howdy and a Coot, not to mention Gardenhire.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 12, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea

Cordier wasn’t really much of a prospect at that point. I waffled a bit on that point, eventually allowing TPJ in the “FAT” camp.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 12, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not how I remember it

The cupboard was pretty bare at that point, so Cordier was considered one of the better arms in the system. He was going to miss all of 2007 with TJ surgery, which is what made him more risky and thus more expendable. Although I was overjoyed that Berroa was done in KC, I was a bit bothered at the time that Cordier was the return piece, especially since TPJ was going to be DFAed anyway (there’s a trend—trading pitching prospects for SSs who are about to be cut and this available for nothing).

It's all ball bearings these days!

by CentralChamps20?? on Jul 13, 2010 5:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Jason LaRue

How about adding LaRue to the 2007 FAT list? We traded for him, and Cincy footed some of the bill, but the teams couldn’t decide on the PTBNL, so the Royals sent the Reds $1.00. I’d call that Freely Available. Unsure about the “Talent” portion.

by Tito42 on Jul 13, 2010 1:28 PM EDT reply actions  

We paid him over a million bucks

So he wasn’t really that free.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 13, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

It was more like $2.5M, so should be on the 2007 Free Agent list? I think we all forget about LaRue because he wasn’t a “starter?” He was an atrocious signing at the amount of $ he was paid…I mean Kendall isn’t that much more expensive than LaRue was even with the amount the Reds were chipping in to have him off of their roster. And it shows a history of DM overpaying for aged veteran catching.

by Tito42 on Jul 14, 2010 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

He wasn't exactly a FA either

I didn’t count expensive guys we traded for like Mike Jacobs or Coco Crisp although its arguable that they were essentially “free agents.”

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 14, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Duh I see

I’m just blinded by the LaRue

by Tito42 on Jul 14, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Kansas City Royals.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Royalsretro_small
Would Royals Review Make Better Decisions Than Dayton Moore?
Funny-tattoos-hey-look-they-found-a-royals-fan_small
Mitch On the Bench
Royalsretro_small
Happy Mother's Day From Royals Review

Recent FanPosts

Dignan_small
Friday Game 43 Open Thread
Funny-tattoos-hey-look-they-found-a-royals-fan_small
MORE Mitch on the Bench
Sexy-beast-original_small
OT Friday: The generic boilerplate template desert island gambit
Tumblr_lwfiy4qkgv1r204zxo1_500_small
RR Poetry Contest
Small
Extrapolating the First 43 Games over the Full Season
Small
Is Dave Eiland doing ... anything?
Small
Alcides Escobar's Bat
Download_small
Was Dayton Moore Right on Bruce Chen?
Chalmers2_small
2012 Royals vs 2012 Ex-Royals

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Managers

Cimg0036_small Freneau

Editors

Dayton_small Jeff Zimmerman

Authors

Royalsretro_small RoyalsRetro

Headshot_small Old Man Duggan