We should never get rid of Brian Bannister

by billski8 on Jul 14, 2010 4:40 PM EDT

Brian Bannister is one of few players in the majors that religiously follows statistics and digs into sabermetrics to assess his performance.

I'm no sabermetrition, nor do I have the time to scour through statistics or read Bill James novels, but as an average baseball fan I have a healthy respect for those who do. It all comes down to one thing... Brian Bannister is willing to look into every single aspect of the game to determine where he can find a competitive advantage. He's also introduced sabermetrics to other players in the Royals Organization. There is an article over at fangraphs.com that discusses how Bannister introduced Greinke to FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching).

I would love to see Bannister as a life-time Royal with the responsibility of continuing to guide young pitchers and moving to a career in coaching.

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I wish I shared your enthusiasm

but Bannister as a lifelong Royal as a pitcher frightens me. If he wants to make the switch to minor league pitching coach and working his way up from there then I guess thats ok. Just get him out of the rotation. He just seems like a middle reliever to me. Once through the batting order maxmum and then yank him before the inevitable blowup.

by stram#1 on Jul 14, 2010 4:46 PM EDT reply actions

I echo all of the thoughts of this post.

It is my desire that Bannister turns into the Time Wakefield of the Royals. He just keeps resigning for a little below market value and is slotted in as the 5th starter.

by Chyladin on Jul 14, 2010 4:53 PM EDT reply actions

I think even Brian the saberman would tell you to cut ties if he keeps puttin up a

5.26 FIP

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jul 14, 2010 5:08 PM EDT reply actions

No, Banny would cite his bad luck with HR/FB rate and throw his 4.69 xFIP back at you

by Gopherballs on Jul 14, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Just trade him to the Cubs where Day Banni can dominate

Day Banni is probably worth Starlin Castro

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jul 14, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions

I think the high FB rate would be a big liability in Wrigley

depending on which way the wind is blowing, I guess

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by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jul 15, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Pitch Him When

The wind is blowing in.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 15, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Nice guy

It is great that he likes stats, But he sucks!!

by 102win on Jul 14, 2010 5:47 PM EDT reply actions

Banny at the height of his physical capacity is barely an effective major league pitcher. Even a small decline in capability and he is done for, certainly in the AL.

by BlueEyes_Austin on Jul 14, 2010 6:00 PM EDT reply actions

Banny is smart enough to know

that he needs to return to the NL as soon as possible, preferably the Padres, as pitchers with his skill set can get results like a Cy Young contender in Petco

by Gopherballs on Jul 14, 2010 6:09 PM EDT reply actions

uh.. can we really claim Banny looks into everything possible when he says that he doesn’t watch video or read scouting reports?

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo (follow me, because reloading my twitter page 40 times a day is kind of creepy)

by BHWick on Jul 14, 2010 6:28 PM EDT reply actions

also, he has a weird tendency

to tell the public when he is rattled, lost track of time, didn’t get over his last start, etc.

Don’t get me wrong—I love the guy. He seems like a really cool dude. But it is never a good idea to give your opponents such information.

"Shot by my own men."

by StonewallPDS on Jul 14, 2010 6:32 PM EDT reply actions

Or it all could be a smoke screen!!

Blanny is an evil genius.

Given enough velocity even a pig will fly

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 14, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Banny is a fine #5 shoved into a #3 role

R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9

by doublestix on Jul 14, 2010 7:26 PM EDT reply actions

+1

starter at best. When Duffy and Lamb and Montgomery make it up to the bigs with Greinke, Banny can be at the end of the rotation. Hochevar somewhere in this mix as a #3 or #4.

by stlJeff on Jul 15, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions

that 1. was really a #4 before this commenting system jacked it up.

by stlJeff on Jul 15, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree, but one problem is he is making/will soon make #3 money

at least from the Royals’ perspective

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by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jul 15, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Ban Banny

He says that he knows what his problems are yet has done nothing to improve his performance. It is one thing to know what a fellow pitcher is doing wrong and it as another to be effective in correcting it. He is a wildly erratic borderline ML pitcher who would have trouble making staffs of around 80% of teams. He may be a good pitching coach someday but let him prove it with someone else. I do not want him messing with Royals pitchers at any level.

by Glassuxx on Jul 14, 2010 8:10 PM EDT reply actions

No.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Jul 14, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Can you substantiate any of those sentences?

Start with

He says that he knows what his problems are yet has done nothing to improve his performance.

NYRoyal, are you around?

/Sending out the NYRoyal Bat-signal

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by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jul 15, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Sagehen

Maybe I should have said it has not improved his performance. I have not checked but I think since those remarks his stats are even worse. I stand by the 80% remark. I believe it is obvious. Finally I do not want him to stay on staff just to help youngsters. Davies and others have pitched alongside him do not seem to have benefitted from this knowledge. His continued presence( unless he turns it around and quickly) will just be a fruitless waste of time when we could have a mid level prospect that has performed above expectations at AAA or AA in rotation to see if the growth is real.

by Glassuxx on Jul 15, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions

I knew that you meant sabermetrics when I quoted your sentence,

and it still seems like a baseless statement.

1. How do we know his performance has/hasn’t improved?
2. How do we know any change in performance is/isn’t sabermetric-related?

I agree that he does like to make excuses for himself after the fact, if that’s what you mean by “he says that he knows what his problems are”. But that personality trait seems separate from whether his use of sabermetrics has helped him improve his pitching.

There are a number of advanced pitching stats that we could use to see if his performance has been improving over time. For instance, xFIP (the recent favorite of many) for Bannister was 6.05, 5.04, 4.85, 4.37 in order from 2006 through 2009. That looks like consistent improvement from season to season. This year, at 4.70, he has slipped a little. Certainly there are other stats out there that might say differently, but this one shows yearly improvement, which would substantiate the opposite of your claim. That is what I mean by “can you substantiate” your claim.

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by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jul 16, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions

He says that he knows what his problems are yet has done nothing to improve his performance.

After putting up a 3.87 ERA in 2007, Banny candidly admitted that he had benefited from an unusually low BABIP (.266). Because he didn’t expect that to continue, he determined that he needed to improve some area of his game that was actually within his control. At the time, he said he was working on improving his fastball in order to increase his strikeout numbers.

In 2008, the strikeout numbers didn’t rise, which, when coupled with a predictable (and actually predicted) BABIP regression ( to .316), resulted in a 5.76 ERA. Having failed to increase the K-rate of opposing batters, Banny said that he was going into 2009 with the goal of increasing his groundball rate by integrating a cutter into his game.

Sure enough, he went from throwing 59.6% fourseamers in 2008 to 16.8% in 2009. And, while he didn’t throw a cutter in 2008, 52.3% of his pitches in 2009 were the cutter (all according to fangraph’s pitch type data). His GB/FB ratio jumped from 0.92 to 1.47 and his LD% dropped from 22% to 16.9% (also according to fangraphs).

Those factors combined to shave a full run off his 2009 ERA — down to 4.73, but without the aid of that unsustainable BABIP he enjoyed in 2007 (.303 in 2009).

That doesn’t strike me as a guy who has “done nothing to improve his performance.”

That strikes me as a guy who actually has a plan and has found a way to execute that plan.

In 2010, he’s mixing the fourseamer and the cutter in roughly equal proportions. I don’t know why, but the result seems to be that his GB rate is creeping back down, as is his K rate. He’s also issuing a few more walks than in the past and he has already given up 18 HR, as opposed to 15 in all of 2009. The BABIP is still pretty stable (.307), and he’s currently sitting on a 5.56 ERA. I don’t know what he’s up to with this, but he does seem to be using an approach that’s roughly halfway between what he did in 2008 and 2009… with results that are also sort of splitting the difference (except for the HR-rate, which looks out-of-whack in comparison to everything else—WTF??). I’m sure that’s not what he is trying to do, but I suppose we’ll just have to wait and see where he’s going with it.

Perhaps he has found some secret method of using the sun’s life-giving rays to suppress solid contact, and only needs some extra day starts to put his overall numbers back where they were last year.

Anyway, that’s what Yost thinks…

by kcemigre on Jul 17, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Good stuff kcemigre! Informative, full of substantiated details. The kind of comment I like to read!

I think I remember reading or hearing an interview where Banny said the arm angle he used to induce more groundballs last year contributed to his early exit from the season, so he was trying to find a compromise so that he could keep up the increased induced-groundballs without wearing out his shoulder so early. I’m sorry I can’t find where that is from, but I’m fairly confident my memory is correct on that.

by Gross(est) on Jul 18, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions

That comment about the arm angle is interesting...

…and something I completely missed. Maybe it explains the pitch-mix this season some.

My real hope for Banny at the moment is that his 2010 HR numbers are a fluke (and yesterday didn’t help). His HR/9 is currently almost twice what it was last year. If that were to regress toward last year’s number some, he’d be putting up a FIP in the neighborhood of what he did a year ago… if getting into that neighborhood is the best he can do without wearing out the shoulder, then that’s a compromise I would make if I were in his shoes.

by kcemigre on Jul 19, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe he should go back to 2009 arm angle and hit the bullpen.

by AxDxMx on Jul 19, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions

I love him and I appreciate that he is willing to use all his tools - including his analytical tendencies

to try to extract every possible bit of usefulness out of himself. But of course, since his “stuff” ain’t so great, that means he’s doing all that to try to just be a #4-5 starter, and it has been pretty spotty this year. I hope he figures it out, because I love having him on the team, but I fear his transition to coach may be happening sooner rather than later. If so, I hope it is with the Royals organization, and not just because I finally broke down and bought myself a #19 t-shirt.

by Gross(est) on Jul 15, 2010 10:47 AM EDT reply actions

I think that Banny is some sort of freak of nature.

His day/night splits are crazy and everyone knows it. We should probably trade him to the Cubs, Cards, or Giants were he can take advantage of his skill set against the NL and maximize daytime starts.
I still fully believe that one of the biggest issues with our rotation other than injuries, is the existance of Kyle Davies. He’s even more inconsistant than Banny. All ML pitchers are gonna have rough outings, but with Davies it seems more and more like he just gets lazy at times. At least with Bannister we’ve figured out it’s a day/night kind of thing, but with Davies there is no real explanation as to why he can look so good and lose concentration so fast. he needs to be run either out of the organization or used sparingly as a bullpen guy.

Ned likes Kendall in the 2-hole!

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jul 15, 2010 10:56 AM EDT reply actions

Brian Bannister is one of few players in the majors that religiously follows statistics and digs into sabermetrics to assess his performance.

And boy, has that really done wonders for his career!

- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes

by JobDDT on Jul 15, 2010 12:47 PM EDT reply actions

Maybe it has

He might have a 7.00 ERA and be out of baseball without it.

by kcbottom9th on Jul 15, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Seriously - I don't think he's using that stuff to try to make himself into a great pitcher.

I think he’s using that stuff to try to make himself into a major league pitcher.

I can’t remember the exact quote, but last year didn’t he say he identified with the pitcher who said something like, “I didn’t really want to be a knuckleball pitcher, but I wanted to be a major league pitcher, so I became a knuckleballer.” I think it was when he was talking about how he wasn’t capable of being the pitcher he wanted to be because of his physical abilities, but he was just trying to be here.

by Gross(est) on Jul 15, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Brian Bannister

will be a coach within the next five years. GM’s will love shit like this and give him a job.

by 102win on Jul 16, 2010 2:07 AM EDT reply actions

Banny will probably be very successful

if he decides to stay with baseball when his pitching days are done. He’d do well at any position within the organization, and he’d make a better manager right now than A.J. Hinch. He’s probably a good teacher, since he’s had to learn to be a decent player with marginal talent, and I bet he’d be a great minor league pitching coach, since scared rookies need a nice guy to help them along.

Another thing is that he’s an insider, what with his dad being a long-time pro. He’s grown up surrounded by professional baseball, and probably knows a lot of people within the business on a personal level. This is the complete opposite of Trey Hillman.

"The bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey" - Unfortunate cricket commentator

by Juancho on Jul 16, 2010 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions

Here's the problem.

I don’t think Banny wants to coach. He owns a very successful photo studio in Phoenix. Unless he starts getting Big Bucks in Arbitration, I don’t think he’ll need or want to stick around.

http://loft19.com/

by AxDxMx on Jul 17, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions

I think his dad pretty much runs the studio for him, but yeah, I'm sure he'd like to get more involved at least for a little while.

In that USA Today article from a few weeks ago he sounded like he was thinking about it (coaching) more than when he’s been asked about it before. It also sounded like he thought writing an instructional book was maybe the way to go. If I were him, I’d want to be home with my kids, but that is just one of the 50 million reasons I’m not a professional baseball player. (Right behind being a female and having no talent.)

by Gross(est) on Jul 18, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions