Why not KC for the NHL?
by kcdynasty on Jul 16, 2010 5:22 AM EDT
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Alright, so maybe this isn't the best place for it, but there aren't fanposts on the KC SBNation site so I figured why not do it here?
So here we go again. Kansas City has once again been implicated as a potential relocation market for the New York Islanders.
What you need to know after the jump...
-Charles Wang (Computer education gazillionaire) purchased a minority share of the New York Islanders in 2000. He became majority owner of the team in 2004.
-He is the man leading the charge on the Lighthouse Project, a multi-billion dollar revitalization effort in the 150 acre area surrounding 38 year old Nassau Coliseum. The plan includes townhouses, shopping districts, outdoor amphitheater, a 5-star hotel and complete renovation and modernization of the Nassau Coliseum.
-Since his purchase of the team, Wang has lost over $100 million dollars.
-This past week, the Town of Hempstead pretty much put the nail in the coffin in the Lighthouse Project and proposed a new plan for less than half of Wang's proposed budget.
-Wang wasn't happy.
-The Islanders drafted teenage phenom, John Tavares with the first overall pick in the 2009 NHL Entry Draft.
-Wang stated in September that if legislation wasn't in place regarding the Lighthouse Project that he would begin searching for a new venue for the Islanders.
-He's reportedly talked with local government about possible new arenas in Queens, next to Citi Field and Brooklyn. He's also been in talks with the New Jersey Nets about possibly sharing their brand new Barclays Center.
-An article published on ArenaDigest.com implicated Kansas City's Sprint Center as a relocation option that the Islanders are exploring.
So that's that.
Kansas City has been here. It happened when the Sprint Center was being built. Mario Lemieux came here seeking a new home for his Pittsburgh Penguins, who were having difficulty with the Pittsburgh government in getting a casino slots license that would fund a new arena in downtown Pittsburgh.
Eventually, KC realized that they were being used as pawns and Lemieux got his new building in the Steel City.
So will it happen again?
Probably. The Islanders will not move out of New York. NHL Commish Gary Bettman was born on Long Island and is an Islanders fan. The NHL has stated that they don't want to relocate any NHL franchises or expand in the current economy. (Which is great, you know because the Coyotes and Thrashers are just ROLLING in dough...)
But what it comes down to is what Charles Wang wants to do with the team. He's stated that buying the team is his biggest regret in life. He's been battling with the politicians on Long Island for almost a decade and they aren't budging.
If he moves the Islanders to the Nets' arena, he'll have to pay them rent and royalties and luxury taxes and maintenance costs and so on.
If he moves them to Queens, he'll have to start the process all over again. Deal with more politicians, more accountants, lawyers, look for funding, look for support, etc.
If he moves to KC, he's got the building. He's got AEG. He's got free rent. He's got profit sharing with the world's 3rd busiest concert arena, he's got sold out corporate suites, he's got a built in passionate sports market with starved hockey fans.
It would take a miracle for this to happen, yes. But Kansas City makes good business sense for not only Charles Wang, but also for the NHL.
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I've been following this for the past year
There has been a flirtation with KC from the start it’s mostly for leverage it would seem but it seems that they’re calling Wong’s bluff out on LI. Something’s gotta give. The Iles currently have an untenable situation. They play in the leagues smallest and oldest arena (with awful traffic) and in a market dominated by the Rangers and of the 8 major pro teams in the NYC area, the Iles are by FAR the smallest draw. Most kids who are hockey fans are 25 years removed from the dynastic 1980’s Mike Bossy teams and have mostly attached themselves to the Rangers.
Even with the Lighthouse district, I don’t see how the Iles survive. It’s sad really but even 5-6 years ago when the Iles made a couple mini-runs into the playoffs there wasn’t much buzz.
As for KC, I’ve been pretty vocal on most boards that KC could support a winning hockey team. With the explosion of junior and High School hockey teams across the metro the awareness of hockey in the youth is higher than ever. I was there in the 90’s when the Blades were drawing 14,000 to old Kemper. There ARE hockey fans in KC and more importantly, we’re a cold winter blue collar town in which hockey teams tend to thrive.
Also, I’m not so sure Bettman would block a move. He’s had over a year to put the kibosh on relocation rumors and so far his office has remained pretty silent. If he was willing to let the Pens flirt with KC I don’t see why he’d prevent the hapless Iles from exploring better options.
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
At the moment
the Nets are probably the smallest draw, because the NJ fans won’t support a team on its way out the door…but in the long-term sense, you’re probably right about the Isles.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Long time
hockey fan here.
Having grown up in New York and followed the Rangers for over 25 years, i can say that based on my love of the Royals and Chiefs, the fans in KC would worship an NHL team.
Speed, toughness and something to do during the week. It would be a huge thing for KC and the NHL.
A win – win.
I would prefer a NBA team
but I wouldn’t complain if we got a hockey team. It would be awesome to have a team downtown (where the Royals and Chiefs should be)
I agree
I really like the NBA. I liked the NHL as a kid, but kinda lost interest after the strike/banishment from ESPN. If we had a team I’d probably get back into the NHL.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 20, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
They can come to KC
as long as they don’t change their name.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
You don't think a better name would be
the Kansas City Iru-Os-Sim Knights?
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
KC Monarchs -
we should keep with the them of the Chiefs and Royals.
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
The NHL already has the Kings
KC needs a Lakers- or Jazz-type non-sequitur team mascot name.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 16, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Still think the Scouts would be great
That’s a name that would be very unique. But it will probably have to be a name like Chiefs and Royals, yes.
"Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic."
by MinnesotaRoyal on Jul 16, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
If they don't have to
negotiate the rights to the name away from the New Jersey Devils, the former users of that name.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
should be a problem -
last time I was at a Devils game, I didn’t see anyone trying to sell a throwback Scouts or Rockies sweater.
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
Yeah, I always forget they hold the rights
I can’t imagine they would want to keep them. I don’t think they do any throwbacks during the season or anything, so I would think it wouldn’t be a big deal. I guess I just don’t have any other (good) ideas.
"Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic."
by MinnesotaRoyal on Jul 16, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course not
but what corporate entity that owns the rights to something will give it away for free? Even if they’re not currently making money off of it? If someone wants it, they’ll make them pay for it.
I’m sure it will be much less hassle and expense to come up with a new name.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
should NOT be a problem...
proofreading is fun…
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
Lakers were originally in Minnesota
So it is relevant
Lakes are to southern California
As islands are to the Midwest
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 16, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Um, alright
But I dont see any royalty around Kansas City.
Just saying that it wasn’t some random name that So-Cal picked to be their nickname. They just kept the same name from another city.
I now see from your original post that you want them to keep the name, which I also dont have a problem with. I thought you were arguing to change the name.
Royals
were named after the American Royal
We have met the enemy, and he is us.
by Royal Kingdom on Jul 16, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I see
I guess that the crown on our mascot and in logos has nothing to do at all with Royalty, or where the American Royal got their name (yes I see where it is in that Wikipedia article).
I did not know that though, so thanks for the info.
Also our pro-teams mascots are associated with heads of state:
Royals
Monarchs
Chiefs
Kings
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
The Kansas City Prime Ministers?
The Kansas City Czars/Tsars?
Emperors?
Mayors?
Presidents?
But I think we’re all missing the obvious name here:
THE KANSAS CITY BARBECUE
We could then nickname the arena “The Pit”, and our mascot could be a giant chef that grills the other mascots during games!
NO NON-PLURALS!!!!
Sorry for the all-caps, but I can’t stand those kind of names. Hate, hate, hate them.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
The KC Barbecues
there fixed
Given enough velocity even a pig will fly
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 16, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Dukes is cool
Tsars is definitely out, as is Kaisers, and I don’t think we want to go anywhere near Führers.
"The bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey" - Unfortunate cricket commentator
I think I like The Jesters, but I think The Jokers might be better.
But only if the logo is inspired by The Dark Knight’s Joker.
What about the Jacks?
Then, if there wasn’t a game scheduled for that evening, the headline could be “JACKS OFF TONIGHT.”
"The bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey" - Unfortunate cricket commentator
Interestingly
The Cincinnati Royals moved here after the KC Royals were already in existence, so we could have had TWO Kansas City Royals – much like how at one time there were two St. Louis Cardinals franchises.
But they changed the name to “Kings” to avoid confusion.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 20, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
it wouldn't be as much of a non-sequitur as the Jazz/Kings
there are Pacific Islanders living in the KC area. Granted, I don’t know if they’d be big into hockey, or buying hockey jerseys
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo (follow me, because reloading my twitter page 40 times a day is kind of creepy)
How about the Grandview Triangles?
She thinks she missed the train to Mars; she's out back counting stars.
by KeepItCopacetic on Jul 16, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Keep things the way they are
The reason the Sprint Center has become the 3rd busiest concert arena in the US (6th in the world) is because there is no anchor tenant hogging all the prime dates (mainly the weekends). Why give the arena to a team paying no rent (why is that?) that will probably play to crowds of no more than 14k to 15k (if we’re lucky) when a sold out concert can draw 17k to 18k. Sorry, it may make sense for the Iles and the NHL but it doesn’t make good business sense for KC which is what REALLY matters.
With this recent news
http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2010/07/12/daily28.html
the Power & Light District needs all the additional revenue it can get. Right now the Sprint Center probably averages about 2 events a week. Even if all of those were sellouts (not every concert generates the 17-18K in ticket sales that you mention), a hockey team with at least 41 home games would draw hundreds of thousands more in foot traffic each year. AEG could easily work around the hockey games—if it was a problem, then why would they be so willing to attract an NHL or NBA team? Every other arena in an NHL/NBA town has to deal with the same issues.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 16, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
No kidding
MSG has an NBA team, and NHL team and still hosts enough concerts and other events to make most arena’s drool.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 16, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know what the layout of the Sprint Center is
But Madison Square Garden has multiple “staging areas” for different events. The sporting arena is not the same floor space as “The Theater at MSG” and theater events and sporting events can be held simultaneously.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
True -
but the WaMu Theater would not hold the same arena-style concerts. I must say, on a side note, MSG is among the ugliest buildings in existence…
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
Using MSG in the biggest city in the US for your argument?
That’s a REALLY fair comparison. LOL!
Um
We are talking about utilization capacity.
That has nothing to do with city size.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 16, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
UM
Has nothing to do with city size? Maybe if your trying to make your argument work for you then damn it, you’ve got me! Everyone wants to play NY don’t you think? Metro NY has 19.75M people in it. You don’t think that makes a difference? How about you compare cities that are like KC perhaps. Cities that already have the two biggest sports in the country and now you want to add a third? In a bad economy?(sorry Obama, its true!)
Capacity, not demand. Slight difference.
Try again Einstein.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 16, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
KC metro (2.1M) NYC metro (19.75M)
Of course MSG can get filled to capacity easier. They have about 10 times the number of people to draw from. Don’t need to be Einstein, just need to have common sense.
Jeezus
Did you read anything? We are not talking about seating capacity or ability to fill seats, but utilization capacity.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 16, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay -
even with what you’re saying (i.e. NYC is 10 times larger than KC) NYC also happens to have 10 times the entertainment venues as KC. It evens out.
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
But everyone wants to play MSG if they're playing NYC
so it has first dibs on all the top entertainment coming through. That’s why Sprint Center and MSG can’t be compared equally in my opinion.
Given equal demand
Both can host the same number of events (unless there are byelaws or something). That is all I am saying.
Obviously, demand is far higher for arena space in NYC than KC, and MSG is far busier than Sprint would ever be because of it. BUT, if sufficient demand existed, Sprint Center is capable of holding as many events as MSG (or very close).
This was all in response to the argument that having a sports tennant restricts concert use. MSG simply shows that the two can co-exist just fine.
I'll give on that point a little
One thing that is important to remember is that sports franchise won’t want to pay any rent and would likely demand big chunks of the facility’s revenue from luxury suites, concessions and sponsorships. That would cut the arena’s ultimate profits. KC received 1.8 million in 2009 from AEG and Tim Leiweke, the president of AEG, said that if there were a team there now AEG would not be able to write a check to the city for 1.8 million.
To me, its almost like that when a team plays a game its almost like the game didn’t happen because the team takes all the revenues from the game and the city gets little or nothing. That’s 41 dates for either the NBA or NHL that basically disappear because the city doesn’t get revenue from it. PLUS the arena would likely have to hold back potential playoff dates for much of May or June. The city is almost held hostage by the team and if their revenues aren’t as high as they like then they want even more give backs from the city. Indianapolis is going threw that right now with the Pacers, paying them 33 million for the next 3 years and at the end the Pacers can still leave.
I don’t know if I’ve changed your mind at all but its been fun talking about it. Thanks for the responses.
I think
the team would eventually have to pay rent. The “free rent” offer by AEG is probably more of a way to help the NHL or NBA franchise get on it’s feet and create a solid fanbase.
So there may be a 5-10 year period where AEG doesn’t profit from the team, but will in the long run.
http://www.royalskingdom.blogspot.com
Not to mention
people are more prone to party and drink before and after sporting events than concerts.
P&L’s biggest weekend is the big 12 tournament.
Sports fans like to drink.
Concert-goers like to smoke pot.
http://www.royalskingdom.blogspot.com
Yeah, I can't say that I've ever gotten really drunk to go to a concert.
I’ve gotten trashed while there (thanks to beer in the suite I didn’t pay for). But if you go to the right show you can get a pretty good contact high. TOOL I’m looking in your direction.
Concerts cost money to promote
and need to be scheduled on an individual basis. Very labor-heavy. No big-money season ticket buyers for concerts. Concession sales for food during a sporting event dwarf those during a concert, and a sports team means a logo that can be plastered on anything that doesn’t move under its own power and can be sold.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
The suites at Sprint Center are sold on a yearly basis to corporations.
My brother’s company has a suite and they rotate the tickets out to all the departments. No one wanted to go to Rob Zombie and Ozzy Osbourne a few years back, so I got to go with him.
That's true of corporate suites
But surely individual seats (or blocks of seats) for a concert season aren’t sold on a seasonal basis, are they? I don’t see how they could be. Fans of one musical act aren’t going to care about the others. Do concert venues/promoters sell blocks of dates by genre, in which people who are fans of one act are likely interested in the others? I’ve never heard of such a thing. Only with sports teams do you get to fill a seat for 40 dates in a single sale.
Corporate suites are different – the point is to entertain clients or reward employees, not because the CEO is necessarily a fan of the event or events.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Well yeah, but you said there were no season ticket holders.
I was just pointing out that there are a few. The suites could fit up to 40 people, and there are full size refrigerators that are completely stocked with beer. It was pretty awesome.
There are season ticket holders at Verizon Wireless Amphitheater
Just FYI. I don’t know about Sprint
Something I just thought of
(and forgive me for the un-originality if the Scouts or Blades had done such a thing in the past – I’ve never seen their promotions)
A great slogan for a KC hockey team would be “The Puck Stops Here.” The original version of that saying was associated with President Truman, who is famously from the KC area.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Or "The Puck Drops Here."
"Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic."
by MinnesotaRoyal on Jul 16, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont think KC can support another sports franchise
We’re already strectched thin with NFL and MLB, plus all the college sports. Limited number of people have a limited amount of money, especially with the lower income levels due to lower costs in the midwest.
I generally agree
the Islanders would have to quickly develop a large, rabid, and loyal fanbase in order to succeed in a city like KC. I think the only reason the Penguins work in Pittsburgh is due to the fact that they’ve been there so long and have such a good, core group of fans. And even then, they “almost” (depending on how much you believe KC was more than just leverage) moved because of the arena situation.
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 16, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not even the rabid fanbase
There is just a limited amount of money in a community, and adding another option to the mix would hurt all three teams. I saw an article on it a few months ago, and it was determined that Kansas City is already maxed out in teams it can support.
This really would help power and light though, as well as all the downtown. I think the Islanders could actually succeed here, but they would be a very small market team and the Royals budget (and Chiefs) would go down.
I don't know about that.
Sure there’s gonna be some overlap between the Chiefs, Royals, and hockey, but hockey fans don’t necessarily replace hockey games with baseball and football. There’s got to be a group of people here that are hockey die hards that don’t go to other stuff.
Or people who have disposable income
But no winter sports team option to spend it on. As others have pointed out in other threads, the Blades drew well.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
I will say, the Blades drew well for two reasons:
1) A good product on the ice
2) You could sit center ice against the glass for $18
That’s a $90 ticket. The nice thing about the Sprint Center is that the upper deck feels very close so chances are you could still get very reasonable upper deck tickets and remain close to the ice. I prefer sitting up higher anyway.
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
That's a $90 ticket in the NHL he means to say...
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
I realize that an NHL team
will be more expensive to see than the Blades were. Still, if the taste for hockey exists in KC to the point that the Blades were a draw at all (who spends $18 a ticket for the best seats to see something they don’t care to see?), then there’s hopefully enough interest amongst those who can afford the price to fill the arena.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
I figure that if they draw in Nashville
They’ll draw in KC. They draw fairly well here, too. Lots of people drop a lot of cash to get season tickets. They’re not even people I would expect. However, we do have a ton of ridiculously wealthy people around here, so I don’t know if that makes a difference. I just feel like some of them had NASCAR fever in the winter, wanted to see things hit each other, and thought they’d try hockey to see if it worked for them. They were hooked.
"Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic."
by MinnesotaRoyal on Jul 16, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, duh.
No doubt about it. Just had to teach some of the rednecks around here that they’ve been following the wrong sport.
"Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic."
by MinnesotaRoyal on Jul 16, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of it is corporate support
And the SC already has a ton of corporate support. All of the corporate suites are filled, and from what I understand, most of them are going to stop renewing if we don’t get a team soon.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 20, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget that the NHL
is a salary capped league now and has very favorable ownership standards. The league as a whole is making money. It is possible to put together a solid NHL team on a budget. Hell, look at what Chicago did this year. They won with homegrown talent, smart free agent signings, and a lot of role players.
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
I'd love to see us get an NBA or NHL team.
To me, that is why we approved the Sprint Center. I think AEG and everyone behind the building were overly optimistic (perhaps intentionally) about the prospects of landing a major-league winter sport.
On a side note, if the Islanders do move here, please let them keep their name. “Kansas City Islanders” is almost too perfect.
- W. Bloomquist homered to deep center
- P. Earth explodes
We are on sort of an Island here.
St. Louis is the closest big city. After that anything of size (with pro sports teams) is more than 5-6 hours away by car. Minneapolis, Chicago, Oklahoma City, Denver.
I Think The
Chiefs should change their name to the Coyotes, and that would have been a good name for a hockey team. Unfortunately, Phoenix is using it. How about the Cows? I mean, it is Cowtown.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
There Are Islands
In the rivers and lakes, but I always liked this term.
Ait \Ait\, n. [AS. ?, ?, perh. dim. of [imac]eg, [imac]g, island. See Eyot.]
An islet, or little isle, in a river or lake; an eyot. [1913 Webster]
The ait where the osiers grew. —R. Hodges (1649). [1913 Webster]
Among green aits and meadows. —Dickens. [1913 Webster]
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jul 17, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Would love the NBA, would like the NHL
On another note…isn’t Wang a pretty terrible owner? He’s the one that gave that ridiculous ten year contract to their oft-injured goalie and he seems to be kinda dicking Long Island around.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Long Island is dicking HIM around
Seriously. I can’t comment on Wang’s qualifications as an owner – I follow hockey only in passing – but the Lighthouse project is always front-page news in Newsday if anything happens, and it’s always some new “review board” demanding that he make changes, re-evaulate another angle, scale down, change this, change that…
One thing that’s true is that Wang has always had permission to build the Islanders a new arena. But he doesn’t want to build a nice house for a money-losing team. He wants to make Uniondale, Long Island a destination that people will come to and that will, incidentally, build up the team as well. Can you really blame him? Uniondale, at present, is a dump of a town.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Interesting
Thanks for the perspective.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 20, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
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