Trade Forum: Is Kyle Farnsworth Likely To Be Traded?
The second post in a series. The first, on Jose Guillen, can be found here.
It's a credit to Kyle Farnsworth that we can even have this conversation this summer.
Pros:
- Farnsworth's ERA sits at 2.25 right now, a number he hasn't really remotely approached since 2005, when he posted a 2.19 ERA with Detroit & Atlanta. Other than that, all we really have in this ERA neighborhood is Farnsy's 2.74 ERA with the Cubs in 2001. The ERA is definitely in play as a selling point.
- Two of Farnsworth's traditional pratfalls, the walk and the homer, are down this season. He's walking only 2.3 batters per nine, a career low. The same is true for his HR/9 (0.5).
- A reputation for great stuff. It's always been there, it probably always will be.
- There's now a narrative established that the Royals have returned Farnsworth to a more prominent role. He's rehabilitated now. In the world of relievers, the psychological aspect of the game is highly valued by many inside baseball and there's now positive buzz about Farnsy's playing-in-role abilities.
- Relievers tend to get traded. They're usually on short contracts, they run hot and cold (or are thought to) which encourages a desire to grab a hot arm while you can, and everyone always thinks they need bullpen help. Literally, the fans, media, players, and front office people with every team thinks, right now, "we need bullpen help."
Cons:
- Success for pitchers is often like a reverse of the weather: behind the rainbow, lies a storm. This kind of analysis has become a sabermetric cliche, but that's because it's based on solid principles. We can break this next section down into multiple bullet points, or a single one. In short, that ERA isn't likely to last. Why not?
- The luck factors for Farnsworth show that he's been fortunate. His BABIP is .279 this year, not incredibly lucky, but a little giving nonetheless. In, part, because of that BABIP, Farnsworth also has a high strand rate: 83.7%. Like the BABIP, that's not OMG out of whack, but it's also one that probably won't last. Of relievers with 30 IP in the AL, that's the 12th best out of 55. Most importantly, the low HR number is a little funky. Kyle has only allowed HRs in 4.9% of his fly balls this year. There's absolutely no precedent for that number in Farnsy's career, which is fairly long. His previous career low is 8.3%, set last year, in KC. On their own, regression in these stats might not be a killer for a two month rental, but when you have the possibility of a BABIP+STRAND+HR cocktail looming... its not pretty. As such, ZIPS projects an ERA of 4.32 the rest of the way. Not terrible, but not really a bullpen asset.
- For the prototypical stuff pitcher, KF's strikeouts are down this year. At just 6.8 K/P, Farnsworth is striking out the fewest batters of his career as a reliever. Again, you can make all the same point over and over again, but in sum, does it really make sense that Farnsworth would post a near career high ERA, with a career low K rate? Maybe. But the Royals will need to sell that story.
- I'm skeptical that Farnsworth has really moved up to a more prominent role in the bullpen. Maybe he's not in exile anymore, but he's clearly below Soria and Tejeda, and probably below Wood. So he's been rehabilitated to the fourth guy in a bad bullpen. Um, great?
- Farnsworth is owed roughly $2 million in salary, to which we can add $0.5m in a likely buyout for 2011. It's not crippling money, but it's money that will be in the conversation. The Royals will either need to eat that money or take a lesser prospect in return. The Royals have to decide if they want a salary dump or a more interesting player in return.
- As with Guillen, Farnsworth also has a negative reputation around baseball. Unlike with Guillen, these concerns are purely baseball related (more or less). Farnsworth has played for five teams for a reason. With his fireball comes the potential for combustion.
Conclusion:
The Royals overpaid for Farnsworth in the 2009 off-season, both in terms of years and money spent. However, in an odd way, while the money remains an issue, that patented extra year of Dayton Moore's (see Pods, Kendall, etc.) has paid off. Farnsworth was unmovable last season, but that isn't true in 2010. There's a minor deal for Farnsworth out there to be made, it simply comes down to how motivated the Royals are to make it. It is unlikely that the Royals will receive a future Major Leaguer back in return, but not impossible. For both Farnsworth and the Royals, the clock is ticking.
46 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
So who is the Reds' equivalent of Blake Woods?
If the Royals pick up all of Farnsworth’s salary, maybe they can get another team’s version of Louis Coleman.
I'd mention Jeremy Horst (reliever) or Daryl Thompson (starter)
although Farnsworth for either might be too big a win for us.
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo (follow me, because reloading my twitter page 40 times a day is kind of creepy)
Please
We’ll take whatever we can get for him, which ain’t gonna be very much. I’d accept a couple of abandoned shacks in Detroit; we can sell them to crack dealers at a tidy profit.
"The bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey" - Unfortunate cricket commentator
are you concerned about capital gains?
"Shot by my own men."
by StonewallPDS on Jul 19, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Someone will bite on Farnsie
It could be the infamous PTBNL though… or cash considerations? We’ll find out.
Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.
Pitching grip
How much has the move from a four-seam to a two-seam fastball been responsible for the change? Is it enough to account for the dip in ERA? If the Royals sell that as the reason for the success they may be able to deal him for more.
2010 data, looking for previous seasons
pitch_type / start_speed / end_speed / pfx_x / pfx_z / # of pitches
FF(our) Average 95.0 / 86.5 / -9.61 / 7.96 / 52
FT(wo) Average 90.9 / 82.8 / -10.48 / 6.92 / 412
FC(utter) Average 90.7 / 83.4 / -0.20 / 5.58 / 24
Did he even throw the cutter and 2-seam before this season?
Would you like to follow me on Twitter, Facebook, or my blog...well you can't.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jul 19, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
from http://joelefkowitz.com/pitch.php
Would you like to follow me on Twitter, Facebook, or my blog...well you can't.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jul 19, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
apparently he did throw both pitches in 2009
Pitch Type / Velocity / Horizontal Movement / Vertical Movement
FF 95.6 / -8.83 / 8.25
FT 91.1 / -10.26 / 5.59
FC 90.6 / -0.12 / 4.58
http://joelefkowitz.com/pitcher_card.php?pid=150035
Would you like to follow me on Twitter, Facebook, or my blog...well you can't.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jul 19, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I think so
I’d gotten a little nervous about DM going into win-now mode with that winning stretch before the ASB, but now it should be abundantly clear that all tradeable pieces must go if we can get a fair price for them. Farnsy will be attractive as a middle reliever for most contenders, so they’ll be willing to offer at least a little for him. Meanwhile, the Royals are in a position that a simple salary dump would be better than nothing.
It makes so much sense that you have to think something will get done here.
Not smoke and mirrors
Farnsworth’s turn around this year seems legit to me. He and probably McClure deserve credit for fixing what was broken. Here is his pitch selection from ’09 (first number) and ’10 (second number):
Fastball: 51%, 68%
Slider: 21%, 9%
Cutter: 28%, 20%
Change: 1%, 3%
He’s dropped 1.1 MPH off his fastball, but with the new movement, it’s gone from a horrendous pitch to a very good one. The cutter’s working for him too. (Numbers from FanGraphs.) I’d be glad to add him to my pen this year if I were a contending GM.
http://jwtm1945.blogspot.com/
http://kcbbh.blogspot.com/
http://kcnhl.blogspot.com/
http://twitter.com/KC_Baseball
by KCAaron on Jul 19, 2010 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Is the fastball slower because it has more movement and is a 2-seamer?
I know I’ve heard in the past that the harder someone tries to throw, the straighter the fastball is. So did Farnsworth find some movement by not going max effort on every pitch, or is it a 2 seamer?
He has been legitimately good, just not as good as his ERA
The cutter (I am not sure if it is a really cutter or a two-seamer but will go with the Fangraphs classification) has helped him induce more groundballs, which has turned him from an extreme flyball pitcher to almost a neutral pitcher. The great thing about groundballs is that they never go over the fence and rarely go for extra bases. Allowing fewer flyballs explains part of the drop in home runs allowed. Unfortunately, as Will notes above, the other part of the explanation is that he has been lucky on the number of flyballs leaving the yard — his 2010 HR per FlyBall rate is 4.5%, while his career HR/FB is 11.7% (and most pitchers regress to around 10-11%).
by Gopherballs on Jul 19, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
The Royals probably need to include Bloomquist to get that deal done
Jokes aside, packaging Farnsworth with DDJ might yield the best return overall. As mentioned above, almost every team needs another bullpen arm.
by Gopherballs on Jul 19, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Can't wait for MLB Trade Rumors to update
“Just talked to a team official who said that the Royals are more than willing to move Kyle Farnsworth, who is pitching well this season, but that they will need a major-league ready prospect in return. The Royals feel they have plenty of leverage, given that they hold a 2011 club option for Farnsworth.”
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs and Beyond the Box Score.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, if Jason Kendall is untouchable . . . .
by Gopherballs on Jul 19, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't believe that rumor for a second
remember that bad analysis Dave C. did that one time? It invalidates everything else he every writes.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs and Beyond the Box Score.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
What was the bad analysis?
Did Cameron predict Carlos Rosa was going to be a stud?
by Gopherballs on Jul 19, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
At some point, I think Dave said that Lopez for John Danks would be a fair trade
I don’t know when or what the reasons were; obviously, it seems bad now, and may well have been then. People have hung on to that one.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs and Beyond the Box Score.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, I found it
It was Jose Lopez, Jason Vargas, and Mark Lowe for Danks before this season. In terms of results, Vargas has been almost as good as Danks this year, and Lopez had been a 2.5 WAR in recent years even with Safeco killing his offensive value, so it sounds more like a bad idea than a truly crazy one.
link?
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs and Beyond the Box Score.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Here you go
Dave’s 2010 Off-Season Plan from USS Mariner
It looks like Dave’s plan would not have turned out much better than what actually happened (although I would take Cliff Lee for 3 months plus Smoak for 6 more years over Danks for 2 more years), but adding Branyan, Hudson, and Hardy were right ideas.
ah, no wonder I couldn't find it at Fangraphs
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs and Beyond the Box Score.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
kind of like picking Cleveland to win the 2010 AL Central
by Gopherballs on Jul 19, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Royals are playoff contenders, and if
the Indians pass the Royals in the standings,
then the Indians must be playoff contenders.
/GMDM Phd, and TA Math Tacos
Would you like to follow me on Twitter, Facebook, or my blog...well you can't.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jul 19, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
jesting, just jesting
At the time, I thought you might just be one year too early given Cleveland’s depth in the minors. But that was before Sizemore became a huge question mark going forward, all of the minor league graduates tanked (LaPorta, Brantley, Valbuena, Marson), and basically all of the decent pitching prospects in the minors had disappointing years. At least Cleveland has Santana in place as a franchise player for six more years. And a good year for their system in 2011 could put them back on the right track.
All they really need is a veteran to lead them
I think DDJ for Brantley and LaPorta should do the trick.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs and Beyond the Box Score.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry
I didn’t mean it personally, just didn’t agree with the logic of your claim
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs and Beyond the Box Score.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
wasn't taking it personally, no worries
it was a weak claim, i’ll admit.
R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9
Really, I'm excited to see what the 2011 group can do together
With Farnsworth closing, Kendall bringing the pitching staff along, supplemented by the new arrivals from trading DDJ and Soria to the Yankees: Brett Gardner manning center, Phil Hughes #2 behind Greinke, Joba learning the ropes from Farns, and Wil Myers and Jesus Montero battling it out for the catcher spot in Omaha.
2012 is only a step away.
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs and Beyond the Box Score.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
May have to settle for Jayson Werth
I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at FanGraphs and Beyond the Box Score.
Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jul 19, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think our bullpen is bad now.
the fourth guy in a bad bullpen.
I think baseball has also seen that our bullpen is average to okay, at this point.
The problem is that recently the bullpen is totally irrelevant
The starters give up 5 runs by the sixth inning, the offense scores one; game over by then anyway.
Are the Royals going to showcase Farnsworth in RF, too?
"Now…put that in your [BLEEP]ing pipe and smoke it." -Hal McRae
"I was doing this when BJ was in his father's nutsack." -Renzo Gracie
Trade 'em
For a prospect, non-prospect, PTBNL, cash, bag o’ bats, whatever. If for no other reason than for Moore to practice conducting a mid-season trade, do it.
The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them. -- Albert Einstein
by The Ol' Perfesser on Jul 19, 2010 2:37 PM EDT reply actions
















