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Breaking: Royals Send Rick Ankiel and Kyle Farnsworth to Atlanta, Recieve Tim Collins and Two Others

Rick Ankiel and Kyle Farnsworth have been sent to the Braves. The Royals have received LHP Tim Collins back in return. Reportedly, the Royals have also obtained Jesse Chavez and Gregor Blanco in the deal.

Collins, a 20 year old LHP, was a part of this month's Yunel Escobar trade. Because of the notoriety of that deal, there's quite a bit out there about him. (Hint hint, guys.) He has a 2.35 ERA in 202 career minor league innings. He is not a big guy.

Jesse Chavez is a 26 year old reliever that is reportedly, again, headed to the KC bullpen. (stats here)

Gregor Blanco is a 26 year old outfielder. (stats here) His Major League numbers are kinda all over the place, but he's hit well in extremely limited playing time this season.

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Thank you Dayton.

Just, thank you.

FREE BRAYAN PENA.

by JobDDT on Jul 31, 2010 4:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Its crazy

Moore has made 3 straight solid trades in a week. These aren’t get on your knees and pray type of trades (like Jacobs/Crisp) Unloading veteran talent that is currently outperforming (Farnsworth/Podsednick) and guys who have been bad but seem to still have potential (Ankiel/Callaspo) is smart move

Getting young guys like Blanco, Mays, Chavez, O’Sullivan. None of these guys will ever be good players but they can certainly be average at a cheaper cost.

by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 31, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please do

I’d like to hear what the well-informed experts have to say about this deal.

"Never get less than 12 hours sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as as city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that, and everything else is cream cheese." -Coach Bobby Finstock

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 31, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trent A. ‎@scott i was trying to say that theyve made enough stupid moves already by trading their most consistent player alberto callaps to angels for the horrible sean o sullivan then they trade their fastest player scott podsednik for no reason now they trade their second best relievr in my opinion and theyre trying to trade soria to the yankees

by Tito42 on Jul 31, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Adam P. i really liked podsednik i was hoping he’d finish his career a Royal. i was really upset they traded him. they should of offered him a long term contract and paid the man what’ he’s worth.

by Tito42 on Jul 31, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol. No one will ever finish their career as a Royal, until they sell the team and relocate.

Those days are gone.

"Now, now, my good man, this is no time for making enemies."
~Voltaire~ (On his death bed, when asked by a priest to renounce Satan)

by TheK-man on Aug 3, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

BEST DAY EVER

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on Jul 31, 2010 4:23 PM EDT reply actions  

two rentals on Fansy and AnKKKKiel for essentially a middle reliever, Mitch Maier and

The potential gem in a closer prospect?
Yeah, easy win

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on Jul 31, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Like the pickup of Tim Collins the other two are just fillers

and would like to see Guillen and Bloomquist clear thru waivers so that Kila can come up.

Just glad to see Ankiel and Farnsworth gone

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jul 31, 2010 4:24 PM EDT reply actions  

I would think Kila gets the call

as soon as Bullington/Holland are sent back down.

"Never get less than 12 hours sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as as city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that, and everything else is cream cheese." -Coach Bobby Finstock

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 31, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

should send Wood down

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jul 31, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whichever

Does it really matter at this point? Interchangeable AAAA relievers.

"Never get less than 12 hours sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as as city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that, and everything else is cream cheese." -Coach Bobby Finstock

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 31, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holland's still pretty young, I think

He still has upside. I wouldn’t call him AAAA unless you know something I don’t.

by Dadunca on Jul 31, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holland is solid I'd say he's better than Wood and Bullington

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jul 31, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

I was referring more to Bullington and Wood.

"Never get less than 12 hours sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as as city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that, and everything else is cream cheese." -Coach Bobby Finstock

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 31, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Collins is 5'7"

and 155 lbs? I can’t wait to see his delivery.

"Never get less than 12 hours sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as as city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that, and everything else is cream cheese." -Coach Bobby Finstock

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 31, 2010 4:24 PM EDT reply actions  

BA take on Collins

Collins is far removed from the projectable mold of pitchers, standing at just 5-foot-7. But what he lacks in height he makes up for in stuff. His fastball tops out at 93 mph and he has a true 12-to-6 curveball that helps him rack up strikeouts. Not only had he averaged more 15 whiffs per nine innings in Double-A, but he had done so while walking fewer than four per nine. Hitters touched him up a little in 13 innings at Double-A in 2009, but he’s back in a groove in 2010. He’s never started a professional game, so don’t expect a change in roles. Collins does a good job of staying on top of the ball and driving down despite his height. If he can continue his success at higher levels, he could prove to be a useful reliever.

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jul 31, 2010 4:25 PM EDT reply actions  

BRAVES

Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!

by mazoboom on Jul 31, 2010 4:25 PM EDT reply actions  

eloquently planned...

nice

Don't be lonesome for your heroes. Be your own hero.

by PhattStairs on Jul 31, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Still hasn't shown he can get MLB talent cheaply.

Which I’m still worried about. Even if you have 15 guys on your roster home grown thats still 10 guys you had to go get.

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on Jul 31, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Betemit

is a starting point.

Obviously, you are not a golfer.

by Kyled85 on Jul 31, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am happy and will give him this offseason to prove me wrong.

If he signs some more overpriced crappy veterans I’m going to be right back on the fire DM bandwagon.

by AxDxMx on Jul 31, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

So what

we would have been in contention

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jul 31, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Scary.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Aug 1, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Blanco… kinda peculiar when you get 519 PA in your first year, and 114 PA in your next two years.

Blanco is basically a Venezuelan Mitch Maier, judging by his hitting numbers (Blanco doesn’t have a platoon split whatsoever though)

Chavez should be fine

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo (follow me, because reloading my twitter page 40 times a day is kind of creepy)

by BHWick on Jul 31, 2010 4:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Excellent point.

Seems to make all the ugliness worth it, huh?

Place witty signature here.

by LaFLamme on Jul 31, 2010 4:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Now have to unfollow a few of these bloggers on twitter

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jul 31, 2010 4:29 PM EDT reply actions  

What did the Braves give up to get Farnsworth last time they did this?

Didn’t he pitch well for them, but they were quickly brushed out of contention?

FREE BRAYAN PENA.

by JobDDT on Jul 31, 2010 4:29 PM EDT reply actions  

they gave up Roman Colon and Zach Miner for Farnsworth in 2005

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo (follow me, because reloading my twitter page 40 times a day is kind of creepy)

by BHWick on Jul 31, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Royals sent cash along to the Braves too

And I’m still very happy with this deal. Now there’s no chance that the Royals pick up their half of Ankiel’s mutual option.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 4:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Still a chance for a Scotty Pods re-signing though!

Cross your fingers!

"Never get less than 12 hours sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as as city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that, and everything else is cream cheese." -Coach Bobby Finstock

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 31, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chavez and Blanco will report to ML

so another move has to be eminent – even the Royals won’t want to carry 14 pitchers for long!

Kila up, a pitcher (Bullington?) down.

"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009

"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876

by loyal2sdad on Jul 31, 2010 4:31 PM EDT reply actions  

I heart

this trade

Can’t wait to see Tim Collins pitch

by gilmeche55 on Jul 31, 2010 4:31 PM EDT reply actions  

jazayerli
  
Press conference starts. First announcement: Ned Yost signed a 2-year contract extension.

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jul 31, 2010 4:33 PM EDT reply actions  

SON OF ABITCH, DaMMIT

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on Jul 31, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great another year of Kendall in the 2 hole

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jul 31, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Looking at Bluebird Banter, Collins isn't listed in their offseason Top 30 Prospect list

Collins came to the Braves in the Yunel Escobar/Alex Gonzalez deal.

Guess his size makes him a nonprospect/future reliever.

by AxDxMx on Jul 31, 2010 4:34 PM EDT reply actions  

he is a reliever right now

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo (follow me, because reloading my twitter page 40 times a day is kind of creepy)

by BHWick on Jul 31, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he can keep that K rate up

it’s still a huge win.

"Never get less than 12 hours sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as as city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that, and everything else is cream cheese." -Coach Bobby Finstock

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 31, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comment from MLB Trade Rumors:
Did we just get ripped off by Dayton Moore? DAYTON MOORE?!

Indeed. The world has taken a turn to the surreal.

"Never get less than 12 hours sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as as city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that, and everything else is cream cheese." -Coach Bobby Finstock

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 31, 2010 4:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Apparently also in Soviet Russia

“two goals” turns into three in the list.

Whoops.

(It’s all my process, don’t worry)

Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!

by mazoboom on Jul 31, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is fucking awesome!

I’m going to the game tomorrow and can’t fucking wait! It’s like Christmas!!!!!

The taxidermist is stuffing my mother...

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jul 31, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gregor Blanco is gonna bat leadoff

after all, he’s a center fielder who hits singles

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo (follow me, because reloading my twitter page 40 times a day is kind of creepy)

by BHWick on Jul 31, 2010 4:35 PM EDT reply actions  

his OBP is always gonna be way above his BA

his line in AAA in 2009

228/326/279

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo (follow me, because reloading my twitter page 40 times a day is kind of creepy)

by BHWick on Jul 31, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love the OBP > SLG

Jason Kendall won’t have much to teach him

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on Jul 31, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jesse Chavez?

Braves: We are going to DFA Chavez. Want him?
GMDM: Ooh! yes please!

Which is fine… as long as he isn’t attached to him irrationally because he “traded” for him. Same, Blanco vs. Maier.

by play4'ships on Jul 31, 2010 4:35 PM EDT reply actions  

I could see him being a setup guy maybe even a long shot as a closer if he can keep the K rate up.

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on Jul 31, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

That K rate is beautiflu.

I wonder what he throws to get so many Ks.

by AxDxMx on Jul 31, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he tops out at 93

but supposedly has a killer 12-6 curve.

"Never get less than 12 hours sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as as city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that, and everything else is cream cheese." -Coach Bobby Finstock

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 31, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gordon Was Hot

Shit for a while. I would love to see this guy compare to him. He should be able to keep the ball down like Gordon did, anyway, and if the curve is his out pitch, he’ll be a fine middle reliever. We could use that. And, he a LHP!

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 31, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

12 to 6 sound to me like a sinker.

"Now, now, my good man, this is no time for making enemies."
~Voltaire~ (On his death bed, when asked by a priest to renounce Satan)

by TheK-man on Aug 3, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heard Goldstein

twice on both KC sports radio stations on the way to the game. He has a serious man-crush on Collins.

The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them. -- Albert Einstein

by The Ol' Perfesser on Jul 31, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do not care at all what we got for these two.

a Gordon walk off last night and this deal today? Great 24 hours.

by Bart41 on Jul 31, 2010 4:37 PM EDT reply actions  

wow

i haven’t felt good about the royals in a loooong time.

a glimmer of hope perhaps

by wildthang on Jul 31, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

jaysonst #Redsox finished one more deal before deadline. Told it’s “small.” Players still being notified. #trades

Willie!

FREE BRAYAN PENA.

by JobDDT on Jul 31, 2010 4:41 PM EDT reply actions  

dear god, please willie, please willie.

Or maybe guillen, if it was guillen for basically nothing(like a ptbnl) thats a small deal right? RIGHT?!

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on Jul 31, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Guillen doesn't really strike me

as an Epstein/James type of player…but hey, the deadline and trailing the Yankees can make some people crazy.

"Never get less than 12 hours sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as as city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that, and everything else is cream cheese." -Coach Bobby Finstock

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 31, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kevin Goldstein on the rise of Tim Collins

April 21, 2010

At Some Point, You Have To Believe
Tim Collins, LHP, Toronto Blue Jays (Double-A New Hampshire)
Monday’s stats: SV, 1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1 K

The Blue Jays keep moving Collins up the ladder and he keeps dominating. He went undrafted out of high school, and former GM J.P. Ricciardi signed Collins out of a tryout camp; few scouts were interested in a left-hander who is listed at 5-foot-7, and that’s more than just a bit optimistic. With a lightning-quick arm that can only be described as Lincecum-esque, he somehow gets up to 90-94 mph with the frame of a 12-year-old, while adding a plus curveball and tons of deception. He’s just 20 years old, and Eastern League hitters are now 1-for-19 with 10 strikeouts against Collins. He’s going to defy everyone and get to the big leagues eventually.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 4:41 PM EDT reply actions  

yep

Cause the royals are good at recognizing breakout minor league talent and rewarding it

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on Jul 31, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Goldstein Twitter

Just so you know the new #Royal LHP Tim Collins numbers aren’t a fluke, he whiffed 73 of the 171 batters he faced while a Blue Jay at AA.

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jul 31, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

BA - rating

Collins as best curveball in Jays system.

DH: Where's the party!
Danny: David Howard and Mike Sweeney! Go away! Guys, you're gonna wake up my Mom!

by David Howards Legacy on Jul 31, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Apparently

Even littler

"Never get less than 12 hours sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as as city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that, and everything else is cream cheese." -Coach Bobby Finstock

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 31, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

but smaller than any MLB pitcher I can remember seeing

KG says he’s listed at 5-7 but really is even shorter

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here is the information I found on a pitcher that was 5'6
Elmer was one of the shortest pitchers ever in the majors standing at 5’6". There were only six pitchers shorter than him ever to pitch, three being 5’ 5"and the other three being 5’ 4" inches.

I will try to go through retrosheet to see what I can find.

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on Jul 31, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Remember Having

Roy Face’s baseball card and seeing him pitch on TV. I think he got blown off the mound at Candlestick one time. BR calls him 5’8", but I remember him beeing shorter than that.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/facero01.shtml

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 31, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Goldstein really fell in love with Collins

June 14, 2010

Tim Collins, LHP, Blue Jays (Double-A New Hampshire)

If you are not at the very least entertained by Collins, then something is very, very wrong with you. He’s a lefty reliever who can get his fastball up to 94 mph with tons of deception, hasn’t allowed a hit in his last four appearances, whiffed five of the 10 batters he faced over the weekend, and had struck out 53 in 31 1/3 innings overall while limiting Eastern League hitters to a .190 batting average. Oh, and he’s just 20 years old. So why isn’t he talked about among some of the top relief prospects in the game? Because he’s 5-foot-7, that’s why. Actually, that’s his listed height, and most think it’s a bit kind. Still, production is production, and he’s clearly produced at every level, and I, for one, can’t wait to see him in the big leagues.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 4:44 PM EDT reply actions  

I can't wait to watch this kid

"Never get less than 12 hours sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as as city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that, and everything else is cream cheese." -Coach Bobby Finstock

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 31, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really like this pick up

He’s just a reliever and he’s not a top prospect, but it is nice to get anything potentially useful and even interesting for Ankiel and Farnsy. Collins is only 20 and with a great track record of dominating while being young for his level. Love it.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

He sounds like he's the kind of atypical player a team like the Royals should always take a shot at.

"Never get less than 12 hours sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as as city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that, and everything else is cream cheese." -Coach Bobby Finstock

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 31, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder if Dayton

would be interested in Collins if he were still with the Jays instead of the Braves.

"Never get less than 12 hours sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as as city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that, and everything else is cream cheese." -Coach Bobby Finstock

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 31, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

The DM-Braves thing is an old joke and overrated as a real “issue.”

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

In my opinion, yes

But I’m sure many (perhaps most) others would disagree

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree with you

i might still take Coleman over him as the top relief prospect, but it’s close. i am stoked to see this guy pitch in Omaha

R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9

by doublestix on Jul 31, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

#19 with the Jays

but they have a poor system.
He’s gone up this year, but it’s going to be tough to crack the KC top 20. I’d vote yes simply based on K rate & hit rate.

DH: Where's the party!
Danny: David Howard and Mike Sweeney! Go away! Guys, you're gonna wake up my Mom!

by David Howards Legacy on Jul 31, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Braves MLB.com board reactions

“LOL rick freaking ankiel? are u kidding me”
“Farnsworth??? I was looking that brawl thread a few minutes ago just thinking again about what a crazy guy Farnsworth was. And now he’s back?”
“Trading away Tim Collins? Good gosh guys.”
“JESSE?!?!?!?!?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!”
“Crap it’s for Gregor Blanco, Jesse Chavez, and Tim Collins "

Rick Ankiel in 2008 = I’m excited.
Rick Ankiel in 2010 = Got more excited about my morning BM.

Farnsworth is… meh. Adds to the BP though, which is good.

We also added by subtraction by getting rid of Chavez.

“well Ankiel gives us great D "
“It might be ok, because the Royals are his second favorite team with all the former Braves. (: "
“I had a feeling that Wren would go after Farnesworth but didn’t expect Ankiel. Not sure I like parting with Gregor, but maybe putting Ankiel in our lineup would make him better. The deals out there were probably too steep with everyone asking for Mike Minor. Would have definitely cost us our best prospects to land anyone bigger or better. We fortified our pen and maybe we strengthened our offense. I can live with it!”

Rick Ankiel has more power than anyone in our outfield except Heyward, he has been hurt this year, what we will bring is a guy who can hit 10-15 homers, drive in some runs, and play some good defense we just added a rocket arm to the outfield and more team speed.

He is actually a better base runner than Blanco, he maximizes all the speed he has.

Now if Nate can somehow get his swing back, it will be really hard to get hits in our outfield, we got guys that cover lots of ground and make the throws, add Melky to that mix of course.

Oh and Ankiel is hot he is batting 462 in his last 13 at bats, and remember he just got off the DL, he is on pace for 12 home runs.

Playing for a contender and should also fire him up even more.

Starts hitting? LOL

He is batting 462 in his last 13 at bats, he is one of the hotter hitters right now since coming off the DL, he is on pace to hit 12 homeruns.

He hit a homerun right after coming off the DL, and got a rbi yesterday.

Guys this is a good trade Ankiel is slugging since coming off the DL.

1 homer, 6 rbi’s, 3 doubles, and 11 hits, 7 runs scored, this all from July 22nd till now!

“why trade Blanco that was dumb idea i say we should gave up on Mcclouth”

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo (follow me, because reloading my twitter page 40 times a day is kind of creepy)

by BHWick on Jul 31, 2010 4:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Dean Taylor has been wearin him out to get Kila up

I suddenly like Dean Taylor

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jul 31, 2010 4:51 PM EDT reply actions  

i missed this....what did they say about kila?

Okay, well maybe we should tell that to Rain Man, because he practically bankrupted a casino, and he was a ri-tard.

by Clearly Ambiguous on Jul 31, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

That Has To

Happen before he can get the “vote of confidence” and be fired next July.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 31, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

We Can Dream

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 31, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Goldstein

Tim Collins is my favorite minor leaguer. Not the best, but my favorite.

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jul 31, 2010 4:55 PM EDT reply actions  

This presser has turned into the Kila press conference

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jul 31, 2010 4:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Bukaty has a IPAD fuck that guy

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jul 31, 2010 4:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Moore picked the right time to announce that

Hoping that the good news would overshadow the bad

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why is this bad news?

Any way you slice it, we’ve been a better team with Yost as our manager. He does some things that puzzle me, Kendall in the two hole being the biggest offender, but this guy clearly has the clubhouse’s respect, and is making the most out of what little he has to work with. I’m behind this Yost extension.

Jack Harry wears old man cologne, and he sucks.

by RockChalkChiefsNRoyals on Jul 31, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

At best, he is marginally better than Hillman

He plays the wrong players. He makes up horrendous batting orders. None of us have any idea whether he has the clubhouse’s respect or not. No idea at all.

A small market team needs a manager who thinks and acts outside the box. A small market team needs a manager who squeezes every bit of advantage he can get out of every decision that makes. Yost, Hillman and the vast majority of professional baseball managers do not do that. Therefore this extension means that the Royals will have more years of not getting the advantage they could get out of a manger that “gets it.” Hell, I’d just appreciate a batting order that made any sense.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

but with Moore getting rid of the players

he might be forced to play the right guys. All we need to do is get rid of Slick Willie so he can’t play him anymore either. He extends it through 2012 but who else is out there that we could have gotten to manage us? Herm Edwards. Herm running around screaming you play to win the game might be a better motivator, and the fact that he knows nothing about baseball would allow him to think outside the box.

I too would like to see a different manage but there are not a lot of options out there. If there are they don’t want to come here

Those were the good ole days... wait I wasn't alive then

by bww51689 on Jul 31, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is a damming indictement

Of his managerial skills if it takes the GM to physically take crap players away from him to stop him playing them.

by kcbottom9th on Jul 31, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

who else is out there that we could have gotten to manage us?

This is a pretty comprehensive list. There are at least a few options on it that I would rather try over Yost.

"Never get less than 12 hours sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as as city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that, and everything else is cream cheese." -Coach Bobby Finstock

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 31, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is very comprehensive

Though I’d also add Davey Johnson, if he can be convinced to return to managing. The guy’s had success everywhere.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Aug 1, 2010 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think we should

get Lou Pinella to manage via conference call from retirement in Florida.

15 line signature goes here.

by kabrink on Aug 1, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did he not have something to do with the Brewers improvement several years ago?

by RickMckc on Jul 31, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

and the classic choke down the stretch

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by Jeff Zimmerman on Jul 31, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

He went with younger players in MIL

He’s choosing not to in KC.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course, given all the trading DM has been doing, that might have been part of a plan.

by BlueEyes_Austin on Jul 31, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or maybe he was ordered to play the vets

to showcase them for the trade deadline. The time to actually judge Ned Yost begins now, in my opinion.

by BrRoyal on Jul 31, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

What young players?

We have like two guys under the age of 26 on this roster

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 31, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Younger

I’d rather play Mitch Maier than Pods or Ankiel. I’d rather play just about anybody than Yuni. I’d rather play Pena than Kendall. In a lost, rebuilding season, I’d rather play younger players who have any upside, rather than older players who have only downside and who aren’t far from retirement.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

yost has thje respect of the clubhouse

And I know that. Except maybe JoGui who respects the portrait of himself in his locker and nothing else.

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Jul 31, 2010 11:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

yost has thje respect of the clubhouse And I know that

How do you know that?

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Humor me

Who would you rather see him playing more? Getz? Pena? Our major league roster is wave after wave of garbage right now, the fact that we’re 31-37 under Yost despite what little he has to work with gets a vote of confidence from me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing that he’s the end-all answer for the Royals, but we tried “outside the box” when we brought in some guy from the Nippon Ham Fighters to manage this team, and look how well that worked out.

I liked Yost when he was with the Brewers, and he did for them what we want him to do for us, see our young talent develop at the major league level and help this team turn the corner. In the meantime you and I will just have to agree to disagree.

Jack Harry wears old man cologne, and he sucks.

by RockChalkChiefsNRoyals on Jul 31, 2010 5:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Hiring practices outside of the box aren't the problem...

its the person that is hired that needs to think out of the box

C'MON CHEN!!! ---Will Ferrell

by averagegatsby on Jul 31, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

My main problem is Kendall batting 2nd

Can you explain why that is happening?

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by Jeff Zimmerman on Jul 31, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because in 1884, Cap Anson said that the #2 guy in the lineup needs to be able to handle the bat well

So he can take strikes for the leadoffer hitter to steal bases, put down a sac bunt or hit-and-run.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

But Jason can't do any of those.

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by Jeff Zimmerman on Jul 31, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look, Ned, No

Gloves!

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 31, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who would you rather see him playing more? Getz? Pena?

Yes and yes. Pena is better than Kendall and has a possible future with this team. Kendall stinks and is playing out the string of his career. There’s no reason to play Kendall. None. Getz stinks and likely won’t get better, but given his age he at least has some potential to improve. Yuni, on the other hand is horrible and won’t be improving at his age. So go if you have two poor players, you should play the younger one who has at least a modicum of upside.

Our major league roster is wave after wave of garbage right now

And he’s doing a bad job of using that roster.
we tried "outside the box" when we brought in some guy from the Nippon Ham Fighters to manage this team, and look how well that worked out.

No, that is entirely wrong. Hillman was a standard, old school traditionalist (just like Buddy Bell and Ned Yost). Hillman was known to be a traditionalist and managed that way. He lived in the box.
I liked Yost when he was with the Brewers, and he did for them what we want him to do for us, see our young talent develop at the major league level and help this team turn the corner.

I wish he’d manage like that for the Royals. Instead, he’s playing as many old, over-the-hill guys he can….every single day.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

But we have such limited view of what’s going on behind the scenes. Could it be that there is pressure from the owner to play the “high price” talent to see if winning NOW is a possibility? If I was the owner paying big bucks for FA, that would be my position. We judge Yost or any manager as if they live in a vacuum. They don’t.

Not trying to be a Yost apologist, but dang this is a good day.

by RickMckc on Jul 31, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

But we have such limited view of what’s going on behind the scenes. Could it be that there is pressure from the owner to play the "high price" talent to see if winning NOW is a possibility?

That is possible. And DM might be dictating that Yost play the older guys. We don’t know. But I think we should judge managers by what they do (who plays, where they play and how often they play). And going by that, Yost is doing a poor job. I’ll give him the blame for how he’s doing his job unless and until I have good evidence that others are forcing him to make those mistakes.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kendall playing everday and hitting 2nd is horrific

I can’t see how GMDM is making those calls. Those have to be on Yost and they are awful. Just plain awful.
I can only guess that Yost is scared to confront Kendall to tell him he gets a day off.

Stuck following the Royals since 1976.

by A. B. Aird on Jul 31, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see your point, but I think it might be a tad shortsighted. That said, if Kila actually does get promoted and mostly rides the bench, I will have to agree with you. To me, that will be the litmus test of the direction of the whole leadership structure – Glass, DM, Yost.

by RickMckc on Jul 31, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

As long as Guillen is on the team and healthy, Kila rides the bench and plays no more than once a week

I’d bet money on it. Maybe in September that goes up to twice a week for Kila.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

you overlook the obvious solution

play jose in RF everyday and DH kila while playing him at 1b once a week to give billy a day off
gordon / maier or blanco / guillen
obvious this sucksfor the pitchers who like having their flyballs caught, but it could happen

by slayor on Jul 31, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's one thing they could do

Of course that means a young OFer will have to sit on the bench while Guillen hurts the team while he plays out the string of his contract for absolutely no reason. But the above possibility isn’t all bad. I still think it won’t happen. We’ll see.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think it could happen

run guillen out there until his legs hurt so bad he can’t play OF anymore, then just throw him on the DL

by slayor on Jul 31, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds a bit sadistic, no?

Well, it is Guillén, so your desire for revenge has some justification.

"The bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey" - Unfortunate cricket commentator

by Juancho on Jul 31, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kila On The

Bench is of limited use with only one position he can play. He’s no late inning defensive replacement, so that pretty much makes him a PH if he doesn’t start.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 31, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you, Jesus

Christmas in July.

"The bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey" - Unfortunate cricket commentator

by Juancho on Jul 31, 2010 5:23 PM EDT reply actions  

He is somewhat growing one me, but he was Hillman's twin there for a while with all the sacs, bunts, hit and runs

He is playing Bloomquist a little too much also with Maier sitting on bench

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by Jeff Zimmerman on Jul 31, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

What sacs, Jeff?

For fuck’s sake, Yost has ordered as many sacs as Hillman did… in TWICE the games.

Sometimes, I just wanna throw my hands up. I spent an entire year arguing with NYRoyal about Aviles’ defense at SS, only to be proven right when the numbers settled. I spent an entire year screaming about Mitch Maier, only to have everyone finally climb onto the bandwagon this April. And I’ve been screaming about how Ned Yost’s disdain for the sac bunt is in and of itself a real, measurable, and substantial improvement over Trey Hillman, only to see everyone bitch incessantly about Yost being worthless. Shit, nobody even acknowledges it, and here you are talking about “all the sacs”. Probably because of that one article that said we lead the league in sacs, which apparently you didn’t read page two of.

Well, gang, here’s a friggin’ clue: Trey Hillman was playing Kendall every friggin’ day, too. Hillman was playing Ankiel every day until he got hurt. Hillman was playing Guillen every day. Hillman was playing Betancourt every day. Yost is still playing them? Well, who the hell ELSE is he going to play?

Pena is a disaster behind the plate. I love the guy, and we could sure use his bat, but Brayan Pena is not the Royals’ catcher of the future. If I were the manager of the Royals, I would be afraid to give Kendall a day off… and seeing as how I think Jason Kendall sucks harder than a Dyson, that’s saying something. So I can’t much blame Yost for this. (Batting him second? Okay, that’s borderline criminal, but then as we all know batting order isn’t that important…)

Getz is a useless little banjo-hitting non-entity with no plate discipline. I wouldn’t play him over Betancourt, and I can’t stand him either.

The Royals’ problem is perfectly simple to diagnose: the players on the major league roster, by and large, suck. Suck, suck, suck. It’s not Yost’s fault that Gordon was exiled, or that Kila’s still in Omaha. It’s not his fault that it’s not 2012.

But, you know, I guess we’ve all decided that it’s time for the Dayton Moore lovefest around here since the minor leagues are awesome and he’s managed to unload most of the crap that he couldn’t resist impulse-buying at this winter’s garage sale. Hey, I’m happy with the job he’s done building the farm system too, but for the love of spaghetti why is it so damned hard for everyone to remember that on April 1 this team sucked and it didn’t matter who the freakin’ manager was? Earl Weaver couldn’t have won with this roster.

…of course, Earl Weaver would have been playing Kendall and Guillen and Ankiel and Betancourt, too. Unless he got pissed off and quit.

I am now channeling Will McDonald's optimism.

by jonfmorse on Jul 31, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here are the numbers so far that the manager has control of (SF not so much so):

Man Games SH SF SB CS Success Rate
Hillman 35 15 8 29 9 0.76
Yost 68 17 29 39 25 0.61

Yost has still put out quite a SH. His success rate for sending players on steals has been worse.

I am not blaming the players on him at all, but how he is using them.

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by Jeff Zimmerman on Jul 31, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, hell

if Scott Podsednik isn’t stealing basesgetting caught stealing, what good is he anyway, right?

Look, Ned Yost is NOT Earl Weaver. But the management team at RR is beating him about the face and neck worse than they ever got onto Hillman, and I simply Do. Not. Understand that. He’s a better manager than Hillman, period, end of story, and although he is admittedly not a master of the running game (the fact that the Royals would be stealing at break-even pace under Yost if not for the comedy stylings of Scott Podsednik notwithstanding), he’s deliberately giving away outs at half of Hillman’s pace.

I’ll repeat: he’s deliberately giving away outs at half of Hillman’s pace. And that has an effect on the offense above and beyond the fact that he’s not giving away the outs; it’s a message to the players that he understands that it is, in fact, possible to get a runner home in situations other than “man on third, one out”. And if there’s one aspect of major league psychology that I think cannot be discounted, it’s having a manager who at least pretends to believe you can do your job as a major league hitter rather than constantly trying to manufacture a single run because he’s scared you won’t score otherwise.

I am now channeling Will McDonald's optimism.

by jonfmorse on Jul 31, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look, Ned Yost is NOT Earl Weaver. But the management team at RR is beating him about the face and neck worse than they ever got onto Hillman

I really don’t think this is true. From my reading of this website, the clear majority opinion is that Yost is better than Hillman. The major point of contention for most is whether he’s just a little better or a lot better.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wasn't aware that

“the clear majority” = “the management team”.

And, of course, not two comments below this (as I post), “A lightly programmed Commodore 64 computer would do a better job than Yost.” I guess that means you think a lightly programmed TRS-80 would do a better job than Hillman?

Of course, I think a lightly programmed TI-99 would have done a better job than Hillman. But then, I got finger-wagged when I went off about Hillman after the famous “Why don’t I let Kyle Farnsworth pitch to Jim Thome?” game. Ironically enough, one of the finger-waggers was some guy arguing that managers aren’t that important anyway. I think he’s a lawyer from back east.

I am now channeling Will McDonald's optimism.

by jonfmorse on Aug 1, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Where to begin

1. Not quite sure what comprises “the management team” but I really don’t think there are many (if any) who think Yost is worse than Hillman. And I know there was much more complaining about Hillman than there is about Yost.

2. For the record, I think a lightly programmed Commodor 64 would do a better job at managing a MLB team than most MLB managers. I have long been on record as saying that the vast majority of managers are standard, traditional, orthodox, by-the-book managers. That was true of Hillman and it is trueo f Yost. The differences between them aren’t big. I’m also on record as saying that Yost is better than Hillman was (by approx. 2%).

3. Comments/debates/arguments/finger-wagging about reactions/overreactions to one move by a manager are irrelevant to this discussion. It was one data point. Hillman and Yost have had many more than that.

4. Managers aren’t that important. They are much less important than the players. Much, much less. I think Hillman sucked and Yost sucks. But it doesn’t have a tremendously huge impact on the team. But (as I said elsewhere in the comments here), a small market team desperately needs for its manager to squeeze as much production (and therefore winning) out of his team as he can. Hillman didn’t do that. Yost isn’t doing that.

I don’t waste a lot of time bitching about managers because they aren’t important. But I will bitch some, because they have some impact. I also don’t waste a lot of time bitching about middle relievers because they aren’t important. But I will bitch some, because they have some impact. The only reason I might mention managerial incompetence more is because I get slapped in the face by it every time I look at a Royals box score. There is Kendall at #2 in the lineup. And he’s in the lineup….every single day. That kind of thing. It’s so incompetent that it’s like seeing a middle reliever come in and toss the ball under-handed, as if pitching slow-pitch softball. It kind of demands comment.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Aug 1, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oy.
Not quite sure what comprises "the management team"

Well, there are two “editors” and one (currently active) “moderator” around here, to the best of my knowledge.

And I know there was much more complaining about Hillman than there is about Yost.

Not by you. Not by Jeff. And most certainly not by Will, who (although he’s been better about it of late) has had stretches where he couldn’t even avoid taking shots at Yost in situations where taking shots at Yost was horribly out of context. And when he does take those shots, he completely ignores any counter-argument, even having specifically asked for the counter-argument.

Or, to put it another way, when Hillman would stumble into a move which stank of competence, we’d get commentary about how maybe he wasn’t a dunce after all. Yost? Oh, who cares that he’s giving away two fewer outs a week than Hillman was (and although I don’t have the data available, when Yost does call for the sac, he doesn’t seem to be doing it in the first goddamn inning). That’s inconsequential?

(Well, you might argue that two outs a week isn’t a lot… at which point I’d have to counter with, “Well, four outs a week isn’t much either, is it? That’s what Hillman was giving away with his crazy, out of control sacrificing ways.” So either the one thing about Hillman that really maddened us all beyond any sense of rationality just wasn’t that big a deal… or the difference between “two” and “four” is astronomical.)

I’m also on record as saying that Yost is better than Hillman was (by approx. 2%).

Yet you randomly bust on the guy. If he’s not important, he’s not worth busting on. And it’s not even a counteract to some insane groundswell of “Ned Yost is God!!!111oneone” sentiment, either; as I said above, Ned Yost isn’t Earl Weaver and nobody said he was. But this whole discussion here needs to be taken in context: y’all are snarking over Yost getting an extension (which is utterly meaningless anyway). There’s no other way to read the attitude over the extension than “Welp, there was another DUMBASS move…” If it doesn’t matter, then it doesn’t matter; if it DOES matter, then you’re extending a guy who at least has this suckass team playing like a merely bad one.

But (as I said elsewhere in the comments here), a small market team desperately needs for its manager to squeeze as much production (and therefore winning) out of his team as he can.

I’m sitting here squeezing a stone, trying to wring every last drop of blood out of it.

I made a fanpost back when Yost was appointed manager. It’s instructive. This team, as currently constituted, is not what Ned Yost is going to be judged on in the end anyway (not even by you). The beefs we do have with Yost are small change, and ultimately irrelevant; neither Pena nor Getz is a long-term answer and we all know it. This season was a waste from day one, and the utter failure to lay any bricks for the future lies not with Ned Yost.

As far as Kendall… let’s be honest, even “brilliant genius” managers (except maybe Weaver) have blind spots. Joe Torre kept running Bernie Williams out there well past his sale date, even with better options available. Tony LaRussa falls in love with every Bo Hart/Skip Schumaker/Shelly Duncan that comes along. And there are arguments for playing Kendall over Pena (although not very good ones, and especially not “every fucking day”), as well as arguments for batting him 2nd (although not very good ones, especially since Yost isn’t a proponent of giving up outs; it would have actually made more sense for Hillman to bat Kendall second). I won’t even get into the pain-in-the-ass argument, other than to say I can understand not wanting to piss off an ill-tempered employee who I can’t even fire.

Which is to say, if we had an All-Star catcher on the roster rather than Jason Kendall, this wouldn’t even be a discussion. I dunno where we’d have gotten one of those, though…

But ultimately, the bottom line is that except for that one glaring problem which does jump out at me just as it jumps out at you, I no longer watch Royals games and think to myself, “Okay, what’s he going to fuck up this inning?” I no longer let out a disgusted sigh when our leadoff hitter “only” singles, knowing that it’s a wasted hit because we’re about to either deliberately surrender a valuable out or blunder into one due to our manager trying to look smart. I actually have some faith that the coaching staff is working with these guys now rather than doing their very best Michael Scott impression.

Ned Yost is not the Baseball Messiah come to save us from our oppressors. He’s also not the problem.

I am now channeling Will McDonald's optimism.

by jonfmorse on Aug 1, 2010 4:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just for the record, Yost is giving away outs at the same rate.

He’s just doing it differently.

Hillmans SB% = 76%
Yost SB% = 61%

Yost has 64 attempts, and at Hillman’s succes rate that would translate to 49 steals, but Yost has just 39. That’s 10 outs that you can add to the SH column. 10 + 17 = 27 outs given away by Yost to Hillman’s 15 in roughly half the time. Seems pretty close to me.

And I’ll agree that Yost is a better manager, if for no other reason than the fact that when he talks he doesn’t sound like English is his second language.

by AxDxMx on Aug 1, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

There's a difference

between involuntary manslaughter and first-degree murder.

I am now channeling Will McDonald's optimism.

by jonfmorse on Aug 1, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

“Managers aren’t that important. They are much less important than the players. Much, much less. "

I disagree, and I think you are fundamentally misreading the research on this. What it shows is that managers cannot GAIN a large number of victories in a given year. That tells you nothing about the number of losses an incompetent manager can create. If a manager, through ignorance, can cost a team 5 to 7 games a year (which is what a guy like Trey Hillman is doing to you), well, replacing that with a 5 to 7 WAR player is pretty freaking expensive.

by BlueEyes_Austin on Aug 1, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

. If a manager, through ignorance, can cost a team 5 to 7 games a year (which is what a guy like Trey Hillman is doing to you), well, replacing that with a 5 to 7 WAR player is pretty freaking expensive

I really doubt that Hillman (or Buddy Bell or ___________ (fill in the blank with your least favorite former Royals manager) lost the Royals 5-7 games a year. More imporantly, you introduce the concept of WAR into the discussion. While managers can, and in my opinion often do, rob their team of wins, I think the vast majority of them are very similar. There’s a ton of standard, by-the-book, traditional orthodoxy in MLB managing. Trey Hillman largely followed it. So I think he was a roughly replacement level manager. Replace Hillman with pretty much any AAA manager and you get roughly the same quality of managing. Yost appears to me to be of roughly the same quality, perhaps just a bit bitter. So the Royals didn’t save themselves 5-7 wins by replacing Hillman with Yost. Not even close.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Aug 1, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, but this is all B.S.

In game decisions are only part of a managers duty. Getting through to his players, putting guys in the right spot on the field and batting order are all very important. Just because you cant measure chemistry on a team doesn’t mean it is not there.

To pretend as if a manager has minimal to no effect on a beaseball team is beyond laughable.

.

by teabaggingexper on Aug 1, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

If it is there

You will be able to measure it.

Or it simply has no effect.

by kcbottom9th on Aug 1, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

so then...

you can measure how a players mood effects his play, or how a guy batting 3rd gets better pitches than a guy batting 8th, or how a guy plays better in night games on th ewest coast in cities next to the water.

give me break, there is more to baseball and life than can be counted.

.

by teabaggingexper on Aug 1, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Think about it

The idea of having players “happy” is that they perform better, no?. Are you claiming performance is not measurable?

by kcbottom9th on Aug 1, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not what I am saying at all

there are things that can be counted and things that can’t.

you said “if it is there, you will be able to measure it”

ok, i love my wife, can you measure how much?

no you can’t, so does that mean i dont love my wife.

Does that mean a manager has no effect on a team. because you cant measure the effect he has on the game or players.

Of course they do, people are fickle creatures, that thrive in one place and situation and fail in another.

You guys have just gone so far overboard with thinking everything can be quantified, that you lose site of the fact there are people playing this game, not robots.

.

by teabaggingexper on Aug 1, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's different

There is no standard, or objective aim in loving your wife.

In baseball, all that ultimately matters is winning baseball games (measurable) and by far the biggest component of that is player performance (measurable).

A thing, clubhouse chemistry say, might not be directly observable but we can guage the effect it has by seeing what effect it has on players individual performance. Do players over a large sample perform better individually under one manager than another, allowing for age etc? All the evidence says no but its not conclusive, yet. It’s hard to do, because there are so many vairables, but is far from impossible.

by kcbottom9th on Aug 1, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

So then..........

Since Yost is 6 games better than Hillman, because you can measure the teams record under Yost. So then is it safe to assume Yost has a 6 WAR when measured against Hillman. I wish it were that easy.

I think your missing what i am saying, I AM saying that a manager has an effect on a team, i am also saying that it cant always be measured how much of an effect he has.

Sure wins and loses can be counted, but then you have to try and take into account injuries, luck, opponets, weather, umpires, etc……

You would basically need a team to replay the same amount of games under the same circumstances, with only a different manager

There is no way to really know how much a manager effects his team, but you can be sure he does.

I just think it is silly to think they have no little to no effect just because you are having trouble quantifying it, which is what this whole argument is basically about.

So bottom line is this….

I am saying just because you can’t quantify it, doesnt mean it is not happening.

You are saying that if you can’t quantify it, then it isn’t happening.

.

by teabaggingexper on Aug 1, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

BTW

you can’t have it both ways,

You cant say it measurable by wins and losses and players performance, and then say it hard to measure and compare, and thats inconclusive. Thats bad research and basically means you dont really know how a manager effects the team

.

by teabaggingexper on Aug 1, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's not conclusive

In the sense that not enough studies have been done. What studies HAVE been done are pretty conclusive in their results.

by kcbottom9th on Aug 1, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

well

any studies that have been done are completly moot, because these games are not played in a vacum. In fact that is why all stats cant be taken as the Gospel. There are far to many things that effect player performance and results in games.

.

by teabaggingexper on Aug 1, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's not moot

It just pays to be sure. I work for a certain very unpopular oil company, i work in a team who try and find gas and sometimes oil on land. We use various methods and techniques. When we find some, we check, check it again and check it a third time before we call in the heavy artilery to drill a massively expensive pilot well.

It’s the same in research, in this case baseball. You would be a fool to draw concrete conclusions from one study, however resolute those findings are. You want to see the findings repeated numerous times before you have complete confidence in them, whether it is baseball, medicine or geophysics.

Frankly, that is a more noble endeavour than just putting your fingers in your ears and pretending you can’t hear, just because you don’t like the results, which is exactly what you are doing.

by kcbottom9th on Aug 1, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

What Results am I denying?

When you have concrete proof, than i am all in. Numbers are my life, but some number are not created in a Vacum, baseball numbers are not absolute numbers that will never change regardless of circumstances.

A manager can/will get better results than another manager.

a player can/will put up better numbers batting in front Pujols than Betancourt.

.

by teabaggingexper on Aug 1, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

The point I was trying to make above is that the studies basically show a manager can’t really coax additional wins out of his players. That’s not the same as saying a manager cannot find new and novel ways to lose. In short—upside of a manager limited. Downside essentially unlimited.

by BlueEyes_Austin on Aug 1, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, but we'd probably be able to get

Dave Martinez

"Never get less than 12 hours sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as as city. And never go near a lady who's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick with that, and everything else is cream cheese." -Coach Bobby Finstock

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jul 31, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is there a Kila update anywhere?

by RickMckc on Jul 31, 2010 5:38 PM EDT reply actions  

he's still to patient for KC

needs to swing at more wild pitches

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo (follow me, because reloading my twitter page 40 times a day is kind of creepy)

by BHWick on Jul 31, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Any other Kila updates besides those?

by RickMckc on Jul 31, 2010 5:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Nope. He's still in Omaha and likely will be unless and until Guillen is traded

And Guillen will likely clear waivers and might be traded by the end of August. So Kila waits.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kila needs to be promoted now

Just cut one of the bullpen arms. Or just release Bannister/Davies

Its been 2 years now. Kila deserved a chance a long time ago

by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 31, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Guillen should get a huge return

like what the White Sox got for Thome…. hahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaha yeah right

Guillen might not be in Baseball by this time next year.

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo (follow me, because reloading my twitter page 40 times a day is kind of creepy)

by BHWick on Jul 31, 2010 5:47 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree. If Jermaine Dye couldn’t get picked up, then Guillen has no shot.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Guillen gets anything, it's less than 10% of his 2010 deal

he might be the type to sign a Minor league deal with an invite to spring training

Other examples of people who went from over $10M to spring training invites: Mike Sweeney, who has had 3 straight spring training invites after the end of his Royals deal.

Plus, there’s the HGH thing, and also the whole thing with Guillen burning bridges that makes him unlikely to get much free agent interest

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo (follow me, because reloading my twitter page 40 times a day is kind of creepy)

by BHWick on Jul 31, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dye was greedy though

he wanted like 5 million just to sign. as long as Guillen isn’t picky, he’ll get another shot.

R.I.P. cwhitman412, Frederick0220, & Mets2k9

by doublestix on Jul 31, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Personally

I have no problem with Yost signing until 2012. I like the dude, he’s a baseball guy. But in the interest of full disclosure, I would have taken Charlie Manson to get rid of Hillman.

Place witty signature here.

by LaFLamme on Jul 31, 2010 5:52 PM EDT reply actions  

So With DDJ's

Injury we have turned over the entire opening day starting OF, 2/3 of which was relatively expensive garbage. I somehow don’t think the whole exercise was necessary, but at least they’re gone. Too bad about DDJ, though. I’d still listen to offers for him, but I don’t think we’re going to get much for him in the off season. We might be better off picking up his option and playing him at least until the deadline next year. He’s not blocking anyone.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 31, 2010 5:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Chavez might do alright at the K kind of like a Tejeda light

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jul 31, 2010 5:54 PM EDT reply actions  

your face when you read that Ankiel and Farnsworth were gone

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo (follow me, because reloading my twitter page 40 times a day is kind of creepy)

by BHWick on Jul 31, 2010 5:54 PM EDT reply actions  

What the fuck!

Seriously. Who kidnapped Dayton Moore and replaced him with a competent GM who is making wise trades?

by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 31, 2010 5:56 PM EDT reply actions  

What the fuck!

Seriously. Who kidnapped Dayton Moore and replaced him with a competent GM who is making wise trades?

by GobbleforCyoung on Jul 31, 2010 5:57 PM EDT reply actions  

His alter-ego

Mayton Doore!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 31, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Moorton Daye

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 31, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mister...Eroom

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Aug 1, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just watched Gordon's walk off again

It makes me tingle in my lower regions.

Place witty signature here.

by LaFLamme on Jul 31, 2010 5:58 PM EDT reply actions  

KC ate all but 1 million of the contract. That's a good sign that Glass is willing to eat the GMDM mistakes

it would be nice if he did the same with the remaining Guillen deal.

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jul 31, 2010 5:59 PM EDT reply actions  

There Might Be

A shot at someone taking him and his salary if they don’t have to give anything else of value for him. Ham Fighters? T-Bones? But seriously, maybe someone would do it. He has to be waived to find out.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 31, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

MLB Channel

is airing :Countdown: The 40 Most Influential Trades." At number 35, Amos Otis traded to the Royals for a third basemen no one remembers.

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by LaFLamme on Jul 31, 2010 6:09 PM EDT reply actions  

I Just Saw

Aaron Rowand PH in the national game. It reminded me, thank God we didn’t wind up with him. He had two random good seasons in ‘04 and ’07 and is sinking fast in the NL. I guess GMDM might have gone after him if he hadn’t sucked in ’05.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 31, 2010 6:13 PM EDT reply actions  

So we didn't get rid of Jose Guillen

FUCK

Those were the good ole days... wait I wasn't alive then

by bww51689 on Jul 31, 2010 6:16 PM EDT reply actions  

I think he was always more likely to be traded in August (if at all)

He’ll likely clear waivers and then can be traded until the end of August. Some team might want to add him late, and then he won’t have much salary due him, so if the Royals throw in $1M, it’s doable.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

he'll be hurt soon enough

I'm sure a guy who almost died from blood clots can play everyday

by Freneau on Jul 31, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't believe he's made it this long

without one of his extremities falling off.

"The bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey" - Unfortunate cricket commentator

by Juancho on Jul 31, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Podz Looks Great

In Dawja Blue.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 31, 2010 6:21 PM EDT reply actions  

OK, Betemit's Resting

His hammies, Brena is back in the oubliette, who else do we have on the bench? Blanco will be here soon, and Kila might find a spot next to Brena. No, I think Guillen is more annoying because he plays more, he’s horrible (not that Bloomers isn’t) and he’s keeping Kila out of the lineup.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 31, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Guillén

Ned doesn’t let Bloomy play very much anymore, though I imagine we’ll see him filling in for some of the recently departed in upcoming weeks.

"The bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey" - Unfortunate cricket commentator

by Juancho on Jul 31, 2010 6:39 PM EDT reply actions  

MLB.tv rejecting my password

Greeeeeeeeeat. Anyone else have this problem? Of course, I am sharing the account with a couple other guys…

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by LaFLamme on Jul 31, 2010 7:02 PM EDT reply actions  

FYI

Lucas May hit a bomb in his first AB. Moose also hit a HR.

by 102win on Jul 31, 2010 7:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Well

Make that two bombs for Moose

by 102win on Jul 31, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seeing the day's other trades

I’m not sure Dayton Moore did his best. While I like Collins a lot all the way back to his Blue Jays days(a months ago essentially), he’s just a reliever. And if history has taught us anything it’s that relievers that don’t have the closer tag aren’t that valuable on the market (see Leo Nunez and Ramon Ramirez), even less value if you don’t have much of a pedigree which is the case here. And yet another lesson is that once the Braves give up on a pitching prospect, there isn’t much hope for the guy, with very few exceptions. Tim Collins might turn out fine and be light out, but there isn’t much upside here besides a Leo Nunez.

Gregor Blanco, career .268/.367/.366 hitter in the minors with a stealing percentage below 70% is at best a 4th OF on a mediocre team. The one positive is that he actually draw walks. The negatives are the aforementioned stealing percentage, complete lack of power, relative lack of pedigree(I don’t think he ever made a top 10 prospect list with the Braves and his “tools” are not that highly thought of), and the fact that when player can’t even hit (anywhere near) .300 in the minors, they usually can’t hit .260 consistently in the majors. With all that concern and you end up with a lesser Mark Teahen with more speed and less power (Teahen was a .291 career minor league hitter by the way)

Jesse Chavez: should not be a MLB pitcher in all but the most friendly environment. If he can’t cut it in the NL Central and the NL East, I don’t see much hope in the AL Central. Now it won’t be hard to top some of the guys the Royals are throwing out there but winning slightly more this year should not be the goal of the organization. Remember that only a couple more losses and we could have gotten a much better prospect in either Taillon or Machado at the draft.

I’m sorry to be long winded here but it was just a bit frustrating to see us get so little after the Pirates traded Dotel alone, a worse pitcher than Farnsworth, to the Dodgers for 1 top 100 prospects and 1 that is very much viable and they didn’t even have to throw in a good 4th OF.

Some of the former Braves we have in the organization has indeed worked out, but Moore needs to get out of his comfort zone and trade for some guys with no relations to the Braves if it means that we are getting a better deal.

Is the package of Andrew Lambo/James McDonald that the Pirates got for Dotel better than Gregor Blanco/Tim Collins and Jesse Chavez? It’s debatable and I’d be leaning towards the Lambo package. But the Pirates had far less to offer in the package. Which IMHO makes this a bad return for Ankiel/Farnsworth. It is not a bad trade considering the circumstance, but neither was the Beltran trade. It’s just that I think we are going to wonder what James McDonald could have done for the Royals in 5 years, just like some of us wonder what Youkilis or Cano could have been in KC.

Mourning Guy Carbonneau...
Royals obscure player to watch in ST: Lenny DiNardo

by playingwithfire on Jul 31, 2010 9:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Lambo/McDonald

Is a FAR superior package to what we got. But Dotel is also a better reliever than Farnsworth, and Ned Coletti is a moron.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 31, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, the whole LA thing will blow up soon

As far as Dotel being better than Farnsworth, I’ll disagree for this year. Farnsy has better ERA, WHIP and FIP. Granted he can fall apart for the Braves, but at this stage so can Dotel. I’m not super critical of this trade, just wishing that we got the Dodgers’ package instead as well as worry that Dayton might be a tad too attached to the Braves for his own good.

Mourning Guy Carbonneau...
Royals obscure player to watch in ST: Lenny DiNardo

by playingwithfire on Aug 1, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

i think the Braves did us a favor on this one

No one would have taken either so for us to just get rid of them is victory. Beggars cannot be choosers. Be happy.

Coffee. The NEW Performance Enhancing drug for Sport's Writers. Just ask Ken Rosenthal.

by 306008 on Aug 1, 2010 12:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Ranking our new Royals

1- Lucas May
2- Will Smith
3- Tim Collins
4- O’Sullivan
5- Pimental
6- Chavez
7- Gregor Blanco

by 102win on Jul 31, 2010 10:19 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd have Smith or Collins #1

May has a pretty low ceiling. Probably a backup, maybe a starter, but not a very good one.

1. Smith
2. Collins
3. Pimental
4. O’Sullivan
5. May
6. Chavez
7. Blanco

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jul 31, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like your rankings

But I think I’d put Collins #1. He’s a lefty with a low-90’s FB and a plus curveball. And you have to love his stats, especially considering age and level. Now he’s just a reliever, while Smith is a SP prospect, but from everything I’ve read, Smith doesn’t have a single plus pitch, so I don’t like his SP upside. I’m thinking maybe a #5 or long reliever. I like Collins chances of having a positive major league impact better than Smith.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jul 31, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can see that

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 1, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

With May, I kind of considered team need AND a little wishful thinking. I could see him here in September. Smith looked good in his first start for us.

by 102win on Jul 31, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Am So

Disgusted with Kendall I’d rather see just about anyone back there. I fail to see how he better at any aspect of the game than Brena, and I’d take May as a backup tomorrow if Kendall would just go away.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 31, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

Not at all!!! What is Greggggggggggor going to do for us. Not sure he should even start for Omaha?

by 102win on Aug 1, 2010 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

He's basically Mitch Maier...

We all wish he got more playing time on the current roster.

by play4'ships on Aug 1, 2010 5:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

He has a 4.92 MLB ERA

That’s not worth nothing. He was decent last year and struck out 8 per 9 IP in the minors. Considering reliever volatility, he’s got a decent shot to be useful in our pen – certainly an upgrade over the Josh Rupes and Victor Martes of the world.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Aug 1, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can live with it

Blanco ain’t much, but if his presence means less Bloomquist in the OF I can take it just fine.
Chavez has bounced from PIttsburgh to Tampa Bay to Atlanta to KC since the end of last season; not sure what that says about him, but he’s another arm to throw into the bullpen mix.
Collins seems to be the prize here, and any LHP who can miss bats like that has gotta be worth something, yes? I’m just disappointed they’re assigning him to Omaha instead of NWArk, for purely selfish reasons, since I’m roadtripping to the latter later this week.
Addition by subtraction. Let the Braves worry about AnKKKKKiel’s bizarre outfield routes and mighty non-connecting hacks and Farnsworth’s, well, Frankly He Worst-ness.
As to the Guillen/Kila conundrum, I hope to see Guillen in RF every day until his legs fall off and Kila in the lineup, whether 1B or DH. A reliever will probably go back down to Omaha in the next day or two, I’m guessing, and Kila will get the call. He damn well better play. Moore said multiple times that Kila was forcing their hand (and also mentioned the Dean Taylor pressure), so I’m going to go with the hope that ‘sooner or later’ will in this case be sooner.
Gordon should be in LF every damn day, Maier hopefully in CF every damn day (although I suppose they’ll have to start Blanco some…sigh) and Guillen out there until his legs are mutilated (or he gets dumped somehow, whether by trade or waiver claim—gads, please, somebody claim him and let’s hope Dayton has the sense to let him go—or outright release or whatever), and Kila in the lineup. This really needs to happen.

The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them. -- Albert Einstein

by The Ol' Perfesser on Aug 1, 2010 12:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Unless We Have

A plan to acquire a better RF, Gordon should be in RF. Let Hoagy stand in LF and pretend to be a MLB OF. He did it for Teahen.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Aug 1, 2010 3:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Whoo...

they’s gots some angry folks over at Talking Chop, and I don’t just mean about the deal; they seem like a pretty angry lot, period. Anyone have the heart to tell them about “AnKKKKKiel”?

The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them. -- Albert Einstein

by The Ol' Perfesser on Aug 1, 2010 12:32 AM EDT reply actions  

I wouldn't mention anything with more than two consecutive Ks in Georgia

Might cause atavism.

"The bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey" - Unfortunate cricket commentator

by Juancho on Aug 1, 2010 4:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm from Georgia

I specifically avoid using three of ‘em when referring to AnKKKKKiel, but two just doesn’t seem like enough.

The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them. -- Albert Einstein

by The Ol' Perfesser on Aug 1, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

'talking Chop' IS a fun place

Moments of baseball discussion interrupted by forays into liberal v. conservative clamor. Last I looked, it was ‘MSNBC is not as slanted as FOX so you better take that back or I’m taking my ball and going home’ type ranting.

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by LaFLamme on Aug 1, 2010 12:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Great piece by JoPo this morning

if anybody missed it.

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by LaFLamme on Aug 1, 2010 12:34 PM EDT reply actions  

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