SB Nation Kansas City Editor's Pick
The Kurious Kase of Kila Ka'aihue
If the Royals online community had any cause celebre, it would be Kila Ka'aihue. In the land of eternal sorrow that is the 2000s Royals, the first baseman has been the redeemer of all hopes. In the last 10 years, first basemen like Ken Harvey, Calvin Pickering, Justin Huber, and Kila Ka'aihue have risen up to toy with the hopes of Royals fans.
Harvey was considered a mainstream prospect, starting his 2003 in Kansas City and not departing until the sudden end of his major league career in 2005. Calvin Pickering rose from the ashes in 2004, earned a job in 2005, then lost it within 3 weeks because Allard Baird was trapped in a bus that would explode if he didn't make a roster move every 2 weeks. Justin Huber was an actual prospect, who the Royals pretty much buried within 18 months of his arrival in Kansas City, all of this based on a month of major league action. Kila Ka'aihue has been known for 2 years, and has managed to combine elements of his three predecessors into his time in Kansas City.
Kila Ka'aihue has had a late season stint in Kansas City of some respectability (similar to Calvin Pickering's 2004, although not as long). He has been dropped in AAA in favor of a clearly substandard veteran player who was not moved off the team but released/non-tendered (Kila is to Mike Jacobs as Huber is to Mientkiewicz). He even had a pointless run in the majors in May 2010 (similar to two Huber stints). I'd guess Kila is not similar to Ken Harvey outside of having a fanbase in Omaha. But in this organization, if Harvey is unusual for not putting both hands on the bat, Kila is unusual for not swinging at every pitch.
But right now, Kila Ka'aihue is either (a) proving to be a bust, (b) starting slowly, or (c) getting set up. Depending on who you believe. But how unique will his Royals run be in comparison to how this organization handles young players or handles middle-aged prospects.
Imagine, a first baseman who hits home runs, called up to play for a new Royals manager, only to have an uninspiring run and wash out. No, not Kila Ka'aihue. Justin Huber
The case of Justin Huber
Justin Huber had 175 PAs in his major league career, and 85 of them came in his first year with the Kansas City Royals. The first 12 PA came in late June 2005. Huber was called up on June 21st to replace an injured Mike Sweeney. In a year where 1B/DH would be handled by some combination of Harvey, Pickering, and Sweeney, Harvey was injured, Pickering was exiled to Omaha after having 2 starts in a row once in 7 games (the second game pitting LHB Pickering v. LHP Moyer). Sadly there is no relevance to a factual "Tony Pena didn't understand splits" essay involving Pickering and Graeme Lloyd.
So, with the organization having no other 1B/DHs who they wanted to play in the major leagues, it was Huber time.
Huber's first plate appearance came on that day, pinch-hitting for Matt Stairs with 1 out in the 9th as part of Buddy Bell's "futile 9th inning pinch hitting sprees" that he would go on with the team down a few runs. This was followed by a start on June 22nd, where Huber went 0 for 3. Huber pinch hit in the 6th inning in his 3rd game in Colorado, and started in the next two games. Over this time, he went 3 for 12 with a double and RBI. Then Huber was benched for the entire series in Minnesota, before going back to the minors when Mike Sweeney returned. After all, the Royals, who were fighting to keep their winning percentage above 33% needed to play the vets every day.
When Justin Huber returned from the minor leagues in September 2005, he came up with 23 HRs and a 326/417/560 line in AA and AAA. He returned to Kansas City on September 1st, 2005 to participate in a lineup that almost got Buddy Bell indicted for crimes against humanity.
Chip Ambres (CF), Super Joe McEwing (3B), Terrence Long (LF), Emil Brown (RF), John Buck (C), Angel Berroa (SS), Matt Diaz (DH), Justin Huber (1B), Denny Hocking (2B) - Why Dayton doesn't namedrop stuff like this in his "We had nothing" talks, I will never know. That's a brutal lineup. IN SEPTEMBER. Oh yeah, I guess nobody wanted Terrence Long, because he kinda sucked (amazingly, Long did not end his major league career with the Royals, he played for the Yankees during their "fill the last 3 spots of the roster with veterans who'll last for 2 weeks" phase)
Yes, we really had a lineup where the first baseman and DH were in the lower half, and Joe McEwing batted second. Mike Sweeney was in suspended animation for a few days around this time, still battling for a .300 average. 2005 would be the only season of Matt Diaz's Royals career before he went on to be a lefty-killer for the Atlanta Braves (While the Royals got 2 games of Ricardo Rodriguez in return for Diaz. Not 2 games in the majors, two games at High A). Every pitcher who took the mound for the Royals on September 1st, 2005 was traded by Dayton Moore in the year 2006. JP Howell (you know the deal), Ambiorix Burgos (before he started a life of crime), and Jeremy Affeldt (whoops!) all pitched for the Royals that day. Buddy Bell didn't pinch hit in the 9th, he pinch hit in the 8th, having Aaron Guiel lure Brian Shouse into the game, and then pinch hitting Paul Phillips. Justin Huber followed that with a walk, and Denny Hocking struck out looking. Huber went 0 for 3 with a walk and the Royals dropped to 43-89.
Huber started for the entire four game series against the Texas Rangers, going 3 for 17 with a walk, RBI, strikeout, and run. All of this came in the 8 spot. Huber sat on September 6th (Bell pinch-hit DENNY HOCKING for Andres Blanco in the 9th, down 6-5, since there's a type of pitcher in the majors in the 9th in a one-run game who Buddy thought Denny Hocking can hit). Huber played on September 7th, and sat on September 8th. He played from September 9th to September 11th (with his September 11th appearance coming as a pinch hitter). He sat on September 13th and 14th (Denny Hocking pinch hit in the 8th on the 14th, and the Royals won in the 9th in that game). Justin Huber would start 11 times in the last 19 games, putting up a 167/262/194 line in 42 PA.
Justin Huber had 73 PA in September, Matt Stairs had 94 PA, Mike Sweeney had 87 PA, and Denny Hocking managed to put up the last 24 PA of his career. Who knew that nobody wanted Denny Hocking on their 25 man in 2006? Not Allard
December 16th, 2005 was the day that the Royals signed four veteran free agents and the day that Hubermania died. Those veterans who changed the way baseball was played in Kansas City forever were Mark Grudzielanek, Doug Mientkiewicz, Scott Elarton, and Paul Bako. The Royals cited a desire to give Justin Huber more time at first base in Omaha. Justin Huber would return on May 3rd, 2006 when Mike Sweeney went to the DL. He pinch hit for Matt Stairs with 1 out in the 9th (yes, the exact same situation as his first PA in 2005). Huber would sit for 3 straight games, before starting on May 7th, sitting for 3 straight games, starting on May 12th, pinch hitting on May 13th, sitting for 3 straight games, starting on May 18th, and being optioned to Omaha. And that was it for Huber in 2006. But months after speaking of getting Huber more time at 1st base, Justin Huber was put into the outfield as part of a bid to get him playing time if he ever showed up in KC again. After all, you can't bench Doug Mientkiewicz. And Matt Stairs, whose status on the team was kind of pointless for a period of 2006 became relevant after Sweeney went on the DL.
Justin Huber's time in KC would end in 2007 with 10 PA in September 2007, splitting time between left field (2 starts) and pinch running (3 appearances). Although by this time, Huber was clearly never going to make it, seeing as he had only hit pretty well in Omaha in 2005, 2006, and 2007. After all, he needed more time to hone his pinch running skills.
And going back to Kila
But as you can tell from the accounts, Kila Ka'aihue is not getting Hubered in 2010. A strong argument could be made that this opportunity is one he should have had in 2009, but the organization was too busy keeping Mike Jacobs on the roster for no good reason while they had no good reason to keep him around.
The issue of Kila batting cleanup is dismissed by the 'enlightened' fans since obviously it wouldn't hurt anything to put him there. But the more you see Kila, the more you see that he is trying too hard. And why would he be trying too hard? probably because he was put into the most important part of the Royals order with zero big league experience. Just a weird hunch there. If it's part of the plan, then the plan is working.
Kila started his run in the cleanup spot on August 6th, and went on a 2 for 23 tear. After that brutality, Kila Went to the 5 spot, and was 2 for 7 over 2 games. Then Kila was benched on August 15th, because clearly a LH batter like Kila could not handle a RH pitcher like AJ Burnett (to recycle an old joke, Kila was exhausted, Mike Aviles-style). So on the day after he finally had 2 hits in a game, Kila got benched. How do you seriously expect a hitter to get hot when he gets benched the day after he has 2 hits? (and when that benching serves ZERO platoon advantage, as it puts Bloomquist, whose record v. RHP is akin to Billy Joel's record at driving while sober?). Kila then got benched for the second time in a week in Game 2 of the night-midnight doubleheader last night, since clearly a LH batter like Kila can't handle a RH relief pitcher like Tony "Cy" Pena.
If there's any positive to be taken out of the counterproductive benchings of Kila Ka'aihue (which seem to act as a way to get Willie Bloomquist more playing time which is only helping inflate the Bloomquist family college funds with "performance" bonus money Willie will get by this time next week), it's that Kila has been benched on days that Brayan Pena starts, which means that if Ned keeps benching Kila on Brayan Pena days, Kila should play in 6 out of every 7 games.
Kila Ka'aihue went 6 for 30 on the home swing. Which did triple his hit total for the entire year (he was 3 for 29 going into the homestand, and 2 for 25 in August before returning to KC). And Kila was on deck when Jason Kendall mustered his veteran power to end the game right there (ok, nothing short of a walk, or Blanco refusing to run for home would have gotten Kila up in the 10th).
If the Royals gave up on players based on their first 63 plate appearances in a year for KC (or even their first 59 if you're deducting the May cameo), then we wouldn't have Alex Gordon (8 for 55 in his first 62 PA) or Yuniesky Betancourt (8 for 57 in his first 61 PA) on this team, and Jose Guillen wouldn't have lasted nearly as long in KC (he was 10 for 61 in his first 63 PA). In the scheme of things, the first 60 PA shouldn't cost someone a job for the future, but remember who you're dealing with here. (If the Royals organization can act like Yuniesky Betancourt leads the Royals in home runs, I can ignore that he played in Kansas City in 2008)
If Dayton Moore deserves any credit, it's for not retaining Guillen through the end of 2010. But that's similar to crediting someone for using a turn signal, or washing his hands in the bathroom. But the Kila Ka'aihue story is not complete, so we don't know if Dayton is gonna sign his Big 4 in the offseason to displace Kila (That big four would include Omar Infante, Troy Glaus, Vicente Padilla, and Willie Harris - three former all-stars! You can pre-order the pennants after that) or just dump Kila and find an "established veteran" who can pull off a 3-6-3.
I can understand why I get heat for saying Kila is being set up to fail. Because short of wiretapping Ned Yost's brain, it's a claim that can't be proven. And it'd require a reverse Hubering to pull off a situation like this. Kila's getting the equivalent of being asked to drive a stick-shift at the age of 13 on the road with no prior experience. He's the 9 year old in the deep end. The placement of Kila Ka'aihue, who is still a rookie, in the cleanup and 3 spots in the Royals order is a special kind of baffling. It's almost unique amongst any rookie, prospect or non-prospect. It's almost like Dayton Moore saw the clamor of Kila and decided "You want Kila? Ned, put him in the hardest spot possible, we'll show them how good Kila really is". After all, in the world of Dayton Moore, Eric Hosmer is in the major leagues by September 2011 and if Kila sticks until then, then fine. If he doesn't Dayton can just sign an ex-Brave to handle the 1B/DH spot until then while shipping Kila off to South Korea or Japan, fortified by the masses of "what have you done in the smallest sample possible" fans who will say Kila failed since he was not awesome in his first 2 weeks in KC.
I can't say "Be patient and just wait" because that implies that this organization is going to be patient for the rest of the year and allow Kila to have a shot at a job in 2011. They won't. They'll find a way to move Kila out of the United States (hello Pacific League HR title!) or to sign a veteran and talk about giving Kila more time in AAA to work out his problems.
The life of a Royals first baseman/Designated Hitter is often extremely short, or surprisingly long. When you're good, you can last. But if you're not immediately hot, then you're at risk of a demotion.
The most successful prophecy is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you say someone's bat speed is insufficient, then put him in situations where his bat speed will be more important than his patience. If Kila Ka'aihue was part of the future, then he would not have become an every day guy (even for just 2 months) in the cleanup spot.
If Eric Hosmer isn't kicking down the door of Kansas City by this time next year, consider me surprised. If Kila Ka'aihue is playing baseball in Missouri by this time next year, consider me surprised. If this team is any better on August 22nd, 2011 than on August 22nd, 2010, consider me surprised. But until then, this is a Royals cycle we saw in the late 1990s. Well, I guess Herk worked under John Schuerholz, kinda like Dayton did, right? The Schuerholz GM tree sure is awesome.
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While the "setting him up to fail" theory is a bit of a stretch,
(I’m not saying it can’t be true, just that it’s a stretch)
there is a disconnect between the “he doesn’t have ML batspeed” line that kept him in AAA so long and the current strategy that he should bat third/fourth/fifth (and thus is viewed as one of the team’s better hitters).
"....The complex has been made simple, the unfathomable has been made fathomable, chess has turned to checkers and bridge turned into pitch. I feel better about myself after reading your post. Smells are smellier. My pants are looser in the waist....Philip ****ing Fitzsimmons. You brilliantly named sonofabitch...." -- by Nighthawk at the Diner on Aug 15, 2010
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Aug 22, 2010 6:08 PM EDT reply actions
this is how I feel about it too
It’s crazy how, first, he’s not good enough to even be on the 25 man. Then when he finally does get the call, they throw him into the cleanup spot against every LHP they can find.
Where does the talent of Royals prospects go? I imagine a man in Germany shouting "Why can I play baseball so well? WHY?" - Joe Posnanski
"I really hate the Cardinals. All they do is bitch and moan about everything. They're little bitches" - Brandon Phillips
by RoyalsFanStuckInCardsLand on Aug 22, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
The setting him up to fail theory isn't a bit of a stretch
Its completely absurd. If you honestly think that they are deliberately trying to get negative results then its time to contract the franchise. If they felt he was one of the cornerstones of the future he would have been here sooner. Just because he is the current fan favorite doesn’t mean that he’s the second coming of Lou Gehrig. He is here now and not producing. If he does fail the general opinion will be because he didn’t get a fair shake the entire time. You can’t pick and choose when your time to prove yourself occurs. He has his chance now and he had better do something positive. I hope he does. If he doesn’t its his fault.
by stram#1 on Aug 22, 2010 6:36 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I just hate the contradiction
Not necessarily you, btw.
Last year Alex came up after his banishment and Hillman batted him down the order, and everybody praised him for easing him back and not putting any pressure on him. And then he had the nerve to start hitting well, and everybody was bitching about him hitting 8th when he clearly deserved to be hitting higher.
I find it very strange how batting lineups don’t matter at all now, but were really important last September.
he's getting a shot
well, aside from being wedged in a high profile spot in the lineup and having it mess with his approach
and aside from being benched v. a RHP the day after he went 2 for 4.
and aside from all the other nonsense that he’s probably gonna deal with more and more as Ned reverts back to his “must change the lineup every day” coffee-driven nonsense.
Huber 2005 will be Kila’s 2010 if Kila’s upswing isn’t enough for Dayton to not sign some established star to be a DH (or occasionally play at first) for the entirety of 2011. Wouldn’t be the first time they blocked Kila with someone else.
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ask Ned
Sort of someone in the front office giving him a lineup with Betancourt in the middle of the order (which would also be a disaster*), I think Ned will stick with Kila in the 3 hole until he’s distracted by a dog or something. Sort of like how Getz batted leadoff for like 4 days.
(* – Ryan L, I know you think you’re doing Yuni a favor by calling him Mr. Clutch, but ever look at his line with RISP? Yeah)
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Great post.
That 2005 line up made me laugh out loud. We’ve come a long way, baby.
the 8/31/2005 lineup v. Minnesota was probably worse
Guiel (CF)/Hocking (2B)/Long (LF)/Stairs (DH)/Brown (RF)/Teahen (3B)/Berroa (SS)/Phillips ©/McEwing (3B)
Stunningly, this lineup won 1-0.
Even more stunningly, Hocking scored the winning run.
Hocking’s final major league game was v. Minnesota on 9/28. It was also one of nine Royals games pitched by Chris Demaria, who was traded to Milwaukee for Justin Barnes in December 2005. Barnes left the Royals organization after 2007.
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I'm only disappointed
in the lack of any Ryan Shealy references.
The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them. -- Albert Einstein
by The Ol' Perfesser on Aug 22, 2010 11:13 PM EDT reply actions
um
yeah, I guess I didn’t expect his Royals career to be so minor when he came to KC in 2006. Outside of that one month in 2008, he really didn’t do a lot.
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i'm sorry
but it is just patently ridiculous to believe that DM or Ned want Kila to fail…if they really didn’t like him, they would want to see him succeed so they could flip him for something of value…having him fail miserably so he’s worthless doesn’t make any sense, even if there’s some truth in the DM likes “his guys” over Allard’s guys meme…
the bottom line is that the guy is doing nothing at the plate thus far, but it’s early…he still has time to pick it up and have a decent year…i do think he’s pressing because he doesn’t seem to be working counts like he did at AAA.
i for one am rooting for him to succeed.
BOOM YOSTED!
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Aug 22, 2010 11:46 PM EDT reply actions
with the time left, how many more PAs does he get?
He might get close to 200 PA on the year. But that’s if his production swings up. I think that he might wind up around 150 PA at the worst.
He’s at 63 PA now. Including 53 PA in 12 games post-Guillen.
And this team has 38 games left, so 4 PA a game is 152 PA. So starting every game puts him over 210. But if he misses 3 of 15 games in his first stint, then he could play 30 games for the rest of the year, which puts him under 200. I think an over-under for his season PA is 175.
Every other profession will have situations where a boss tries to find fair cause to get rid of an employee. But if that’s put up in regards to Baseball, it’s considered unthinkable.
Also, if they didn’t like him, they’d want him to be good so they could trade him forgets that if they trade him in that scenario, they get roasted. It’s easier to get rid of a player who they can say “failed” than one who was being successful.
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Do you really think the front office cares about public perception that much to mess with Kila?
Sure, it makes them look better if they get rid of a “failure”, but I don’t believe that they think Kila of all people was gonna make the fans say, “You know what, getting rid of an untested Kila was the last straw, I’m never giving you my money again.”
I do think Kila’s getting set up to fail, but not on purpose. Just set up by terrible management.
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
I do think Kila’s getting set up to fail, but not on purpose. Just set up by terrible management
This.
Not malice. Just typical incompetence.
I agree with that quote almost all of the way
except — and maybe it’s just the cynic in me, but — I wouldn’t put it past the FO to want to be “right” about Kila, even if that means stifling him. They claimed Kila wasn’t fit for the ML; if Kila produces now, then all of the decisions that they made b/c of their incorrect analysis were also wrong.
That said, I also agree that mismanagement is the biggest culprit – probably something along the lines of Yosty hitting Kila cleanup because he want to show confidence in him, even if it has screwed with Kila’s plate approach.
"....The complex has been made simple, the unfathomable has been made fathomable, chess has turned to checkers and bridge turned into pitch. I feel better about myself after reading your post. Smells are smellier. My pants are looser in the waist....Philip ****ing Fitzsimmons. You brilliantly named sonofabitch...." -- by Nighthawk at the Diner on Aug 15, 2010
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Aug 23, 2010 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions
have you seen this "YUNI RULES" stuff coming out of guys like Swanson and Bukaty?
Absolutely, I think that there is an ego problem coming from the top down with DM and company.
Especially since a player like Kila succeeding would undermine Mooreian claims about the team when he got here (that the team had no farm system talent) and the philosophies of talent that he picks (IOW, talent that actually takes a pitch). And it hits at the one thing that people claim Moore is good at, evaluating young talent.
If the Royals VP of Communications & Broadcasting is arguing with random fans on Twitter and telling a media buddy “There are a lot of people out there who will never be baseball scouts or personnel directors. And you’re seeing why!!!”.. then that tells you a bit about what they think about people with opposing views.
They’ve already lectured while accomplishing jackshit. They think they’re so right, and ultimately Moore will fail as a GM.
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Although I lean towards what kcbottom9th says about incompetence instead of malice,
BHWick is right when he says this FO has shown quite a sensitivity to criticism no matter what direction it comes from. That is the one reason I found last season so particularly grating. It was just the losing; it was the lectures from Moore about trusting the process and our culture’s demand for “instant gratification.” (I prefer to give GMDM the benefit of the doubt that he is more the poor communicator than the sever asshole these pontifications made him out to be, but we’ll never really know.)
Theories about setting up Kila to fail may be far-fetched, but Moore’s thin-skinned reactions to criticism and he and Trey’s bunker mentality about the process are enough to make the theory at least somewhat plausible—and certainly not as absurd as we might immediately think. Of course, it’s a theory we can never prove as we don’t know what goes on in the Mooore/Yost braintrust, nor do we know what kind of bearing GMDM has on the lineup. That said, I wouldn’t dismiss the theory outright.
Great post, by the way.
is it possible that he's not 'working the counts'...
like he was in omaha simply b/c the pitchers in MLB arent in any way fearful of him, like they were in the minors?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Aug 23, 2010 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
http://www.royalsreview.com/2010/8/12/1619567/dont-give-up-on-kila
As true at 63 PA as it was at 30 PA.
This is a great post and ridiculous
there is no such thing as setup to fail if you are put in the lineup it’s an opportunity and if KIla wants to play major league ball next year then he needs to produce. One extra base hit in 63 PAs isn’t going to work for Chris Getz and it sure the hell isn’t going to work for a 1b/DH.
Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com
This
The notion that he is feeling extra pressure because of where he is hitting is absurd. I would be more on board that he is feeling extra pressure to hit the ball because he feels like this is the only chance he will get. He has been treated horribly in KC, and now that he’s actually batting in the majors he’ll feel plenty of pressure.
And it’s not because he’s batting 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 9th.
That Is The
Big thing that is probably causing him to press, but batting in the middle of the order likely exacerbates the situation. There’s a lot of tradition and superstition in baseball, and I’m sure most MLBers are thoroughly indoctrinated in it.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Aug 23, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
if he's failing miserably b/c the pressure of the cleanup spot is too tough...
then he’s not cut out to be a major leaguer
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Aug 23, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I await Moose debuting at #4
He is a power hitter after all.
And then if he gets off to a slow start and doesn’t walk for 2 weeks I await you and all the prospect fetishists falling over yourselves to defend him.
Somehow I doubt he gets written off as unable to handle the pressure after 15 games.
I await you and all the prospect fetishists
What ignorant group do you belong to?
Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com
And in any case
Do you disagree that there will be a difference in perception between Journeyman prospect Kila and anointeds one Moose, or Hosmer or Myers?
That’s assuming they are “tested” in the first place by being asked bat cleanup. Which obviously we all hope they are, so we can be sure they can “handle the pressure”.
I don’t know of any who have given up on him. In this lineup is it really unreasonable to put him in the four spot?
He outhit Alex and Wilson both at Omaha so its not a complete shocker they hit him there. If JoGui was still on the team then I would be surprised they hit him in the 4 hole but he’s not.
Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com
I don't think so at all
I don’t think it matters where they put him. If he is the type of player that can’t hit anywhere in the lineup then I don’t think he is going to be a major league 1st baseman.
I’m really hoping that he starts finding a groove here in the next week and think he could.
by I need more Esteban on Aug 23, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
how is Kila a "Journeyman"?
he was injured, it took a while for his knee to get to full strength, and once it did he tore up AA and AAA.
"....The complex has been made simple, the unfathomable has been made fathomable, chess has turned to checkers and bridge turned into pitch. I feel better about myself after reading your post. Smells are smellier. My pants are looser in the waist....Philip ****ing Fitzsimmons. You brilliantly named sonofabitch...." -- by Nighthawk at the Diner on Aug 15, 2010
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Aug 23, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd agree with you
But he people who like to make lists didn’t, and therein lies the whole thing i’m talking about.
granrted
Moose debuts at 6/7, because he has a future with this organization and they don’t want to immediately screw him up like Baird did with Alex Gordon (ohwait)
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Which is my point
It’s all about perception and status.
That’s why people spend inordinate amounts of time ranking players. It means precisely nothing materially, they all still need to go out and play and they still need to produce in MLB. That’s all that matters. But people need to know who is more important, who deserves more chance and opportunity.
Moose et al have it, Kila doesn’t.
If That Were
What I said I’d agree with you.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Aug 23, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, that's not what you said or what the post was about
"....The complex has been made simple, the unfathomable has been made fathomable, chess has turned to checkers and bridge turned into pitch. I feel better about myself after reading your post. Smells are smellier. My pants are looser in the waist....Philip ****ing Fitzsimmons. You brilliantly named sonofabitch...." -- by Nighthawk at the Diner on Aug 15, 2010
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Aug 23, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Nor was Arod then
or George brett etc- just throwing things against the wall are we with no idea how to back it up
batting 4th is not why he’s struggling, it’s not helping but rarely in MLB do rookies start in 3 or 4 hole Heyward batted 7th earlier this year, it’s a growth process and most manager want to keep things simple for rookie hitters, there are only 100+ years of baseball history to support that – but hey just keep throwing random thoughts out there
The issue of Kila batting cleanup is dismissed by the ‘enlightened’ fans since obviously it wouldn’t hurt anything to put him there
Oh really? So anyone who has a differing opinion from you is dismissively called ‘enlightened’? Interesting.
I have no problem with you stating your own opinion, one that I am increasingly thinking may have traction. If you take that one line out, I would say I enjoyed your article.
by Boots 58 on Aug 23, 2010 10:20 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Sad commentary on Royals fans
that there is even commentary on if Kila has been “setup to fail”. Kila has been given a legit, honest to God opportunity to earn a spot in the major leagues. He doesn’t have the pedigree, he’s not necessarily young, he doesn’t play a premium position, and he’s probably not in the best spot in the order, but he’s still getting his chance – which is more than can be said for the large majority of minor league baseball players.
In life, you don’t always get the “perfect” opportunity, but what opportunity you do get you need to make the most of. The simple fact is that Kila is just not taking advantage of his rare opportunity right now, and he needs to take it upon himself to improve his individual results. Likewise, Royals fans need to understand that Kila’s complete lack of results so far are on him, and stop looking for a way to place blame on others. It’s absurd.
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by eazyb81 on Aug 23, 2010 10:30 AM EDT reply actions 7 recs
Sheesh, talk about sad commentary
Reading comprehension—the point is that finally, after a lot of, um, strange usage, he’s getting his chance and trying to do too much with it. What the hell are you, some sort of bitter minor league reject? Or one of those who grew up too poor to have a last name and pulled yourself up by the only bootstrap you had and thinks everybody else in the world is some sort of shiftless lazy bum because they aren’t as perfect as you?
Where’s Seitzer? What’s with Ned and his bizarro lineups/sitting against RHs? Do you honestly think players are not “failed” by poor support or coaching? Or does “coaching” only happen on the minor league level? Whether someone is intentonally “setting him up to fail” is frankly beside the point; he needs something he’s not getting.
At this point I’d actually be happy to see, say, Seitzer coming out saying Kila was going to sit for two or three games while they spent their days in the cage and the film room getting the mechanics of his swing back in order. Normally it’s not my favorite thing to see but in this case it might be best.
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by The Ol' Perfesser on Aug 23, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Coaching only happens when you're successful
If I recall the way that Seitzer coaching is covered, he’s only providing good things, and when players start doing bad things, then that’s just random chance (or players not listening to Seitzer), and we have to keep him around because prospects or something.
So officially, Seitzerism hasn’t overtaken Kila’s selfish way of hitting. In reality, Kila’s probably listening. It’s just that it’s not working. And knowing Seitzer’s record, 3 days of sitting and adjusting a swing means that Kila will start trying to murder shortstops with ground balls
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The 'setup to fail' theory doesn't make sense on any level
If he doesn’t fail, his value (trade or otherwise) increases.
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I enjoyed this
And I still believe that KK can produce at the ML level. I firmly believe he’s trying too hard (rightfully so, given how ridiculously long it has taken him to get this shot).
The guy could be a AAAA player, but we need more than 80ABs to evaluate that. Interesting analysis of his swing yesterday on the broadcast. Frank seems to think he’s out of sync (top and bottom half of his swing) because he’s pressing.
And I also agree that when the guy finally gets a couple of hits, they really need to NOT bench him and see if he can keep it rolling.
Finally, I’m in the minority here, but I actually think that over the long haul he would be a more productive hitter than Gordon. I’m absolutely revolted every time I see him swing at the low, inside breaking ball, which he refuses to believe he cannot hit.
I once had hope...now I have Moore.
The only thing to worry about with Kila
is whether or not he gets enough to make a call on him. yeah, he should have been called up earlier, but that’s water under the bridge. As in Will’s earlier post, he simply needs to be run out there, wherever he’s hitting in the lineup, and played. Crudely put (again), any single season number of PA under 220 doesn’t really tell us anything about a guy’s ability to hit.
Kila hasn’t even had 70 PA in the majors so far… Yes, he’s been horrible… but should we have judged Moustakas by his first 80 or so PA in AAA? Of course not, there was (and is) every reason to think he’ll be a good hitter down the road, and he’s been hitting better in Omaha, as we should have expected because of his performance in NWA this season. For the same reason, Kila needs to keep being run out there because his crappy performance so far in ~70 PA doesn’t cancel out his brilliant performance in AAA this season, and so on. That isn’t to say that Kila has the same upside and whatnot as Moose, just to draw a general parallel…
Just repeating myself… I don’t think we need to worry about his spot in the batting order and stuff too much. The main thing is giving him plenty of chances to succeed (or fail) . 220 PA itself really isn’t that much, but that’s a bare minimum.
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 23, 2010 11:28 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
any concern over Kila being benched against random RHP?
which I noted in the post (where Kila was sat for games where Burnett and Reliever Tony Pena started), including being sat on the day after a 2 for 4 day
he’s only playing in 80% of games post-Guillen
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that 50K won't pay itself
When Bloomy gets to game 70, I’m gonna need to ask if he’s getting $50K each for 70 games, 80 games, 90 games, and so on, or if it’s just $50K total.
At least 35 of 65 Bloomquist games will be starts.
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I would also care more if Justin Huber had done anything else, anywhere else. He obviously wasn’t a major league caliber player so I don’t see the reference to it being relevant except to remind of us of the running Huber joke here at RR.
by I need more Esteban on Aug 23, 2010 12:22 PM EDT reply actions
his first stop outside of KC was San Diego
and then Minnesota.
The San Diego stint a trade/purchase, where he was in the same positions as Adrian Gonzalez, Chase Headley, and Brian Giles.
Minnesota, it was Morneau, Delmon Young, and Cuddyer.
I don’t have knowledge of how many offers he got, so I can’t judge if Huber is that bad of a businessman. But when you’re an OF/1B, that’s some pretty stiff competition. It’s not like he was unable to get a job on the Pirates, D-Backs, or Mariners. The Padres, depending on the year, are good. The Twins would only have a corner/1B opening if H1N1 wiped out half their farm system.
And Huber’s currently 28 in Japan with 180 PA and 6 HR. So yes, we did cut ties with Huber before he turned 26. And in all reality, this organization, which the quality players you’ve seen in the corner OF/1B in 2006/2007, had long given up on Huber.
TL/DR summary: If the shitty Royals give up on you, how many teams are gonna go out of their way to put you on their team and give you a shot?
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I see your point
and it’s valid. But, if he could play OF, there was no one in San Diego’s outfield that was some great player that was blocking him. They have run a lot of crap out in their outfield in the last few years.
I also can’t subscribe to the notion that anyone would not give a player a shot because of who they came from before. I think if someone has talent, they will get opportunities, those that take advantage of them stick around awhile.
I could, however, believe that maybe he didn’t get a shot because he’s Australian. Baseball people are set in their ways and Australians in baseball have no precedent. In baseball people’s minds, they may not give someone a shot because of this.
by I need more Esteban on Aug 23, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
there are 750 players in major league baseball at any one time and 1200 on a 40 man roster. But the 750 best players in organized baseball are not all amongst the 750 on the 25 man rosters, same for the 40 man rosters.
When you look at it, Huber’s only shot at the 25 man roster in KC was September 2005. So under 100 PA essentially tanked his career.
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This is the week Kila breaks out?
Royals face 3 RH pitchers in Det, two of which (Bonderman and Porcello) have ERAs over 5. Next up, they face 3 RH pitchers in Cle, two of which (Gomez and Carmona) Kila got a look at last week, and the third (Tomlin) is an inexperienced rookie.
It may be more wishing on my part than anything else – but this week looks as good as any he has seen so far. Let’s hope they keep running him out there every game like they promised.
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
It's not like people just fell in love
with his baseball card.
The numbers are the numbers, his MLE’s were strong and there was reason to provide an opportunity. We can’t pick and choose when to follow sabermetrics -
I think he’s been used poorly BUT the primary issue is he got off to a slow start just like countless other players in history (AROD 10 steps to stardom- must read reminders from Baseball HQ)
I don’t think he’ll get a 2nd chance here and in bizarron world of KC baseball players like Yuni and Kendal are some how vindicated by simply being a better version of their bad skill sets- while I also believe the 1980’s front office is happy Kila is failing.
Does anyone doubt that Dayton Moore has manipulated where possible toward the positive anything Yuni and Kendal do. Ryan LaShill is way over the top in his commentary when Yuni does something positive and the official scorer at the K has clearly sandbagged some error calls (White Sox game latest example-he threw high – forcing Kila off the bag and no error given -it was a routine throwing error.)
his MLEs were guillenesque
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Aug 23, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
That's simply not true
maybe the most dishonest post on this site I’ve seen to suggest Kila’s MLE’s are similiar to Jose Guillen is bizarre- not even to criticize Guillen as a player (who had good seasons) but they are not the same type of player.
Kila last 3 seasons OPS 1.060, 825, 1.085 2008 MLE’s 948 OPS 30 homers in 400 at bats roughly this year close to same and even last year he was not a Guillenesque type player
Guillen has seen 1 season of 800+ OPS since 2006 (.813 in 2007)
In his minor league career Guillen had his best OPS his last full year .855
yeah they are twins
first of all.......guillen was in the majors by 21...kila is 26
kilas 2009 MLE 210/321/348
kilas 2010 MLE 264/382/470
guillen 2010 263/317/436
if you split the difference b/w kilas two numbers, you get similar production to jose guillen
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Aug 23, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
in what world?
Using your stats:
Guillen .753 OPS
Kila 2010 MLE: .852 OPS
That’s a huge difference. If you can explain to me why Kila’s 2009 MLE is relevant when it’s 2010 AND why you didn’t also include Guillen’s 2009 slash line I’ll reconsider. Until then I’ll think you are one of those types that loves AVG and will use whatever stat you can find to support your ridiculous assertions.
You don't Understand what MLE is
Kila and Guillen are different types of players-Guillen has never been a high on base guy NEVER and Kila projects more homeruns-I also question the accuracy of your stats- (where did you get them since you don’t understand the nature of MLE’s)
minorleaguesplits.com
and i wasnt saying that they were similar type players, but that the value of their production was similar. kilas MLEs are decent this year, but they werent good before then and I have always questioned Kilas bat and he’s done nothing to prove me wrong (SSS) as of yet. Like I’ve said many times, I would like Kila to succeed, but I dont see it happening. I just hope that he succeeds enough in the next month to prevent DM from signing a shitty $5M DH in a year where the royals have no chance of competing.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Aug 25, 2010 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I love these contradictions/assumptions made
1) Is it really generally assumed that Justin Huber was going to turn into, I don’t know, Kevin Youkilis had he just been given the opportunity? If that is the case, why the hell wasn’t there a freaking firestorm of activity when we wanted to trade him? Why then, is he in freaking Japan @ age 28? All because of a 62 PA stretch? Seriously? That is laughable, and I know there are a lot of snarky comments about Huber still on this site, but I really had no idea that he was THAT beloved that there is still a grudge being held against the org for “ruining” this great talent that went on to have an outstanding MLB career average prospect that was deemed great by a SABR heavy fanbase that once again put way too much stock into MLE’s & other un-predictable stats that the “Guru’s” of the industry tell you all to follow.
2) And, Will, I’m not sure if you’ve been in on this argument before, but I know several other well respected posters & I have gone round & round on this one, so forgive me for lumping you into a category you may not fall into…How many times have I been called a fool (in so many words) for proclaiming that batting order matters to a players performance? It has to be dozens. All of a sudden, it is being used as infallible evidence of a grand conspiracy since he’d probably be hitting .330/.420/.500 if only Ned would have put him in the 7 hole (to be protected by Chris Getz or whoever the hell we have at the bottom of the ’29 Yanks ’10 Royals.
BOOM! ROASTED!
Is it really generally assumed that Justin Huber was going to turn into, I don’t know, Kevin Youkilis had he just been given the opportunity? If that is the case, why the hell wasn’t there a freaking firestorm of activity when we wanted to trade him? Why then, is he in freaking Japan @ age 28?
+1
How many times have I been called a fool (in so many words) for proclaiming that batting order matters to a players performance? It has to be dozens. All of a sudden, it is being used as infallible evidence of a grand conspiracy since he’d probably be hitting .330/.420/.500 if only Ned would have put him in the 7 hole
Have also seen this countless times on this site as an old way of thinking and irrelevant to player performance. Was also wondering why it’s not being brought up in this discussion too.
by I need more Esteban on Aug 24, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
That's what I was wondering
For a group of people that are into stats, why is the batting order suddenly so important to his progress?
Those who are saying it is so important IS a pretty small group, no?
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
In fairness
I think most reasonable people would not argue that the Royals somehow ruined Huber, BUT (and this is a big but) they would also argue that making ANY decisions about the abilities of a young player based on a 62 PA stretch is pure lunacy. Add to the fact that if the decision is made by a team in the throes of a long stretch of losing seasons, thus rendering their late-season games meaningless in terms of wins and losses, and THAT’S what people were upset about.
Of course it is always possible for MLEs to be off – but when you are the perennial 90+ loss Royals, you certainly owe it to yourself to give viable young candidates with good MLEs enough PAs to draw a meaningful conclusion.
As this applies to Kila – he may end the year with about 200 PAs, and even if he stays cold and has an OPS of, say 500 or 550, or gets hot and ends up with 750 or 800, it STILL IS NOT CONCLUSIVE.
Personally, I prefer an entire year before I can draw any solid conclusions about a player, and EVEN THEN, it may not be enough.
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
Just to be clear
how long does it take to draw a solid conclusion? My thinking is that he finishes this season and plays the first half of next season and then you can start drawing conclusions.
That really depends on whether his AB's come in the cleanup spot or in a lower pressure spot in the lineup.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
From what I've seen he'd be chasing pitching no matter where he hits
I just won’t buy the batting order argument. Its like arguing over the leadoff man. He’s only the leadoff man the first time up. If Kila doesn’t get back to doing what made him so attractive in the first place he won’t be around long. That pitch thats off the plate in Omaha is off the plate in KC. Let it go by.
But Then There's
Joe West………..
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Aug 24, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed 100%
My previous comment was full of sarcasm.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
Or is THIS comment full of sarcasm?!?!
agreed though, I think a lot of people have made good points about this whole idea throughout the comments.
Here are some commonly-accepted PA numbers, broken down by stats
http://saberlibrary.com/more/sample-size/
Kila has a grand total of 91 MLB PA’s (including his cup of coffee in 2008).
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by Sweep_the_Leg on Aug 24, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I can see your point L2RD
But my counterpoint is that they didn’t make a decision about a young player based ONLY on 62 PA’s…the same organization that made the decision had (assumingly) tape of every PA he had in MiLB. They had scouts eyes watching every PA he had in MiLB. They saw him play for years, and that is what they based their decision on, and presumably, that is also why he only received 62 PA’s.
It can be argued they made the absolutely correct decision on Huber based on results he’s had elsewhere.
Every organization in baseball has let a young player go that has turned into something productive. Conversely every organization has had a dozen Justin Hubers that ‘never got their chance’…hell, I still fell like Shane Costa needs to get a shot, but I don’t for a minute think that my eye knows more than those that have seen him ever (healthy) day for the last 5 years.
BOOM! ROASTED!
You trust this organization a lot more than I do.
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People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
by Warden11 on Aug 25, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did the move not work?
Or did I miss something? As I pointed out in my first post, he hasn’t’ exactly blossomed into his MLE’s has he.
In fact, with the exception of possibly Matt Diaz (briefly) and Mark Ellis, who exactly has the organization cut bait on without taking a good look at that we’ve really regretted? Jeff Keppinger? Ruben Gotay?
There isn’t a big track record of GMDM or Allard, or whoever just releasing a player that turned into Justin Hamilton. There just isn’t.
All of the anger/mistrust/conspiracy theories are so misguided it is laughable. I f you want to be pissed off about something be pissed that no only have we not cut anybody that has turned into a star, this organization hasn’t developed an offensive star since Carlos freaking Beltran nearly a decade ago, and with the notable exception of Greinke, that statement could be edited to omit the word offensive. A DECADE of crap has filtered their way from Surprise through Burlington & Wichita & Arkansas to come all the way to Kansas City & nothing substantial has come of it The only 2 players that you could argue are ‘offensive stars’ are DDJ & Billy, and we signed one of them long term, and the other one is still young enough we haven’t had to yet.
Do I trust this organization? Hell, I don’t know, they haven’t made a meaningful personnel decision (by meaningful I mean keep or cut bait) that involved a stud prospect since GMDM got here in my opinion (JP Howell being dealt is the only thing IMO that could be considered jettisoning a top prospect)
BOOM! ROASTED!
by GoBabies!! on Aug 25, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't trust them because of the shit that is signed and for the paragraph you bolded.
I have never mentioned conspiracy. I don’t trust incompetent people and that extends to an incompetent organization. You yourself back me up with this bolded paragraph.
All of the anger/mistrust/conspiracy theories are so misguided it is laughable. I f you want to be pissed off about something be pissed that no only have we not cut anybody that has turned into a star, this organization hasn’t developed an offensive star since Carlos freaking Beltran nearly a decade ago, and with the notable exception of Greinke, that statement could be edited to omit the word offensive. A DECADE of crap has filtered their way from Surprise through Burlington & Wichita & Arkansas to come all the way to Kansas City & nothing substantial has come of it
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
Not trusting them to acquire anything meaningful
isn’t the discussion that is taking place in this thread though…it is whether or not that have/are mishandling Kila…The write says they are mishandling him & brings up the ruined careers of Huber, Harvey & Pickering as examples of how we’ve screwed up, despite the fact that none of the players that we ‘screwed over’ ever amounted to squat anywhere else.
I’m not arguing that KC is a competent org at acquiring talent, I’m simply stating that they haven’t misused any prospects that have gone on to prosperous careers…
BOOM! ROASTED!
Ok...
So who on hear really thinks Kila should hit 7th? Are you telling me with the guys we are sending out there everyday there are 6 guys that should hit higher in the lineup than Kila? Butler, Gordon, Blanco, Kendall, Betemit, and Yuni?
Maybe that would be ok, whatever.
I don’t care where you are at in the lineup, just go up there and do your thing. If he is changing the approach he took to get him there then he doesn’t deserve the spot.

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