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Royals Top Prospects: The Overview

If I were to lay out my blueprints for a great farm system, I would want some top notch bats at the top.  Players who can get on base and have power.  I would want to make sure their strikeouts aren't a big problem in the minors--as that can spell trouble at the big league level.  Those top level hitting prospects are about the most valuable thing you can have in a farm system.  For pitching, I would want depth--lots of it.  The average return on pitching prospects has been about the same between pitchers ranked in the Top 10 and others ranked 11-50.  I would want pitchers with good control and starters who know how to use a change-up.  Of course, I would want some young international guys--both pitchers and position players with incredible tools/velocity.  There would also be some bounce back candidates who are looking to improve after some disappointing years.  The Royals have all those things.

Star-divide

 

2010 was a good year for the Royals Farm System.  The Royals had some good luck/health and some players break out.  It was also a bounce back from a bad 2009.  A year ago, the Royals had a lot of talent on the farm, it just hadn't produced up to expectations.

The Royals farm system has received some attention this off-season.  It has become cliche to talk about all the prospects the Royals have.  Of course, being attention-starved and beaten down Royals fans, we have struggled with how to handle this news.  Some of us are excited at this twinkle of light on the horizon.  Others are still cynical after the list of failures in the distant and recent past.  I can't tell you who is right.  I did a little series earlier in the off-season about what we can (and can't) expect from a top farm system--but that still leaves a broad range of possibilities in the future.  To the cynics, I would say that, with all the praise heaped on the Royals prospects, not one bit of it is undeserved.  You can look at the Royals prospects a lot of different ways: the Top 3, Top 5, Top 10, Top 30.  (Fangraphs did an interesting take here, but I find it problematic for a few reasons).  I have never seen a farm system with this combination of impact and depth.  To the excited, I would say that we are guaranteed nothing in the future.  I can tell you we have a historically good farm system.  I can't tell you what it will translate to.  I feel reasonably certain that we will, in coming years, see more exciting baseball--with over .500 records--but that is still a long way off from division titles.  There is also the danger that some of these prospects might succeed--after they are traded away.

 

Here is the straight up prospect list.  It ended up being 65 names--after trades.  I added Greg Holland, who I mistakenly thought had used up his prospect eligibility.  Also, I inserted Nathan Adcock--our Rule V pick.

Rank Name
1 Wil Myers-C/OF
2 Eric Hosmer-1B
3 Mike Moustakas--3B
4 Mike Montgomery--LHP
5 John Lamb--LHP
6 Chris Dwyer--LHP
7 Dan Duffy--LHP
8 Jake Odorizzi--RHP
9 Christian Colon--SS/2B
10 Aaron Crow--RHP
11 Cheslor Cuthbert--3B
12 Brett Eibner--CF
13 Johnny Giavotella--2B
14 David Lough--OF
15 Tim Collins--LHP
16

Jeremy Jeffress--RHP

17 Tim Melville--RHP
18 Robinson Yambati--RHP
19 Yordano Ventura--RHP
20 Salvador Perez--C
21 Derrick Robinson--CF
22 Louis Coleman--RHP
23 Jason Adam--RHP
24 Will Smith--LHP
25 Paulo Orlando--CF
26 Kevin Chapman--LHP
27 Everett Teaford--LHP
28 Tyler Sample--RHP
29 Buddy Baumann--LHP
30 Noel Arguelles--LHP
31 Jeff Bianchi--SS
32 Crawford Simmons--LHP
33 Clint Robinson--1B
34 Jarrod Dyson--CF
35 Patrick Keating--RHP
36 Greg Holland--RHP
37 Manuel Pina--C
38 Lucas May--C
39 Blaine Hardy--LHP
40 Michael Antonio--SS
41 Kelvin Herrera--RHP
42 Humberto Arteaga--SS
43 Justin Marks--LHP
44 Elisaul Pimentel--RHP
45 Jorge Bonifacio--CF
46 Lance Zawadzki--SS
47 Rey Navarro--SS
48 Nathan Adcock--RHP
49 Edgar Osuna--LHP
50 Jose Bonilla--C
51 Henry Barrera--RHP
52 Greg BIllo--RHP
53 Kevin Pucetas--RHP
54 Yowil Espinal--2B
55 Paul Carlixte--SS
56 Keaton Hayenga--RHP
57 Shin Jo-Ho--C
58 Wilian Avinazar--RHP
59 Mike Mariot--RHP
60 Brandon Sisk--LHP
61 Justin Trapp--SS
62 Leonel Santiago--RHP
63

Murray Watts--1B

64 Brain Fletcher--OF
65 Pat White--OF

 

Below is the prospect list sorted by position.  The Royals have depth at lots of places--C, SS, pitching.  They are short in the outfield--especially corner OF, but that changes if Myers goes to RF.  They have a bunch of CF prospects but none of them are good enough that I'm comfortable penciling them into the future OF.  They also lack depth at the corner infield (although they do have quality with Hoz and Moose)

Position Name
Catcher 1. Wil Myers
20. Salvador Perez
37. Manuel Pina
38. Lucas May
50. Jose Bonilla
57. Shin Jo-Ho
1st Base 2. Eric Hosmer
33. Clint Robinson
63. Murray Watts
2nd Base 9. Christian Colon
13. Johnny Giavotella
54. Yowil Espinal
Shortstop 31. Jeff Bianchi
40. Michael Antonio
42. Humberto Arteaga
46. Lance Zawadzki
47. Rey Navarro
55. Paul Carlixte

61. Justin Trapp

3rd Base 3. Mike Moustakas
11. Chelsor Cuthbert
LF/RF

64. Brian Fletcher

CF 12. Brett Eibner
14. David Lough
21. Derrick Robinson
25. Paulo Orlando
34. Jarrod Dyson
45. Jorge Bonifacio
65. Pat White
RHSP

8. Jake Odorizzi

10. Aaron Crow
17. Tim Melville
18. Robinson Yambati
19. Yordano Ventura
23. Jason Adam
28. Tyler Sample
41. Kelvin Herrera
44. Elisaul Pimentel
48. Nathan Adcock
52. Greg BIllo
53. Kevin Pucetas
56. Keaton Hayenga
58. Wilian Avinazar
59. Mike Mariot
62. Leonel Santiago
RHRP 16. Jeremy Jeffress
22. Louis Coleman
35. Patrick Keating
36. Greg Holland
51. Henry Barrera
LHSP 4. Mike Montgomery
5. John Lamb
6. Chris Dwyer
7. Dan Duffy
24. Will Smith
27. Everett Teaford
29. Buddy Baumann
30. Noel Arguelles
32. Crawford Simmons
43. Justin Marks
49. Edgar Osuna
LHRP 15. Tim Collins
26. Kevin Chapman
39. Blaine Hardy
60. Brandon Sisk

 

Next, I've listed the Royals prospects by age, starting with the youngest at the top.  I found this to be a really interesting exercise--you might see two players close in age and yet one is a couple levels ahead of another.  There is almost a 10 year gap from youngest to oldest.

 

Rank Name Birthday
42. Humberto Arteaga--SS 1/94
45. Jorge Bonifacio--CF 6/93
11. Cheslor Cuthbert--3B 11/92
55. Paul Carlixte 2/92
40. Michael Antonio--SS 10/91
57. Shin Jo-Ho--C 10/91
23. Jason Adam--RHP 8/91
19. Yordano Ventura--RHP 6/91
32. Crawford Simmons--LHP 6/91
54. Yowil Espinal--2B 4/91
18. Robinson Yambati--RHP 1/91
1. Wil Myers--C/OF 12/90
61. J. Trapp--SS 10/90
52. Greg Billo--RHP 7/90
5. John Lamb--LHP 7/90
20. Sal Perez--C 5/90
8. Jake Odorizzi--RHP 3/90
30. Noel Arguelles--LHP 1/90
41. Kelvin Herrera--RHP 12/89
47. Rey Navarro--SS 12/89
62. Leonel Santiago--RHP 12/89
2. Eric Hosmer--1B 10/89
17. Tim Melville--RHP 10/89
15. Tim Collins--LHP 8/89
24. Will Smith--LHP 7/89
4. Mike Montgomery--LHP 7/89
28. Tyler Sample--RHP 6/89
9. Christian Colon--SS/2B 5/89
58. Wilian Avinazar--RHP 2/89
7. Dan Duffy--LHP 12/88
59. Mike Mariot--RHP 10/88
64. Brian Fletcher--OF 10/88
12. Brett Eibner--CF 10/88
3. Mike Moustakas--3B 9/88
50. Jose Bonilla--C 8/88
44. Elisaul Pimentel--RHP 7/88
56. Keaton Hayenga--RHP 7/88
26. Kevin Chapman--LHP 2/88
48, Nathan Adcock--RHP 2/88
43. Justin Marks--LHP 1/88
6. Chris Dwyer--LHP 1/88
29. Buddy Baumann--LHP 12/87
49. Edgar Osuna--LHP 11/87
63. Murray Watts--1B 10/87
16. Jeremy Jeffress--RHP 9/87
21. Derrick Robinson--CF 9/87
13. Johnny Giavotella--2B 7/87
35. Patrick Keating--RHP 6/87
37. Manuel Pina--C 6/87
39. Blaine Hardy--LHP 3/87
10. Aaron Crow--RHP 11/86
31. Jeff Bianchi--SS 10/86
22. Louis Coleman--RHP 4/86
65. Pat White--CF 2/86
14. David Lough--CF 1/86
51. Henry Barrera--RHP 11/85
36. Greg Holland--RHP 11/85
25. Paulo Orlando--CF 11/85
60. Brandon Sisk--LHP 7/85
27. Everett Teaford--LHP 5/85
46. Lance Zawakzki--SS 5/85
33. Clint Robinson--1B 2/85
53. Kevin Pucetas--RHP 12/84
38. Lucas May--C 10/84
34. Jarrod Dyson--CF 8/84

 

This is my best guess as to where each player will start 2011.  I will probably be off on several of there.  The nice thing is there is so much depth that prospects have to be carefully placed to insure playing time.

 

Majors 16. Jeremy Jeffress--RHP
22. Louis Coleman--RHP
36. Greg Holland--RHP

38. Lucas May--C
AAA 3. Mike Moustakas--3B
7. Dan Duffy--LHP
13. Johnny Giavotella-2B
14. David Lough--OF
15. Tim Collins--LHP
27. Everett Teaford--LHP
31. Jeff Bianchi--SS
33. Clint Robinson--1B
34. Jarrod Dyson--CF
37. Manuel Pina--C
46. Lance Zawadski--SS
49. Nathan Adcock--RHP
50. Edgar Osuna--LHP
53. Kevin Pucetas--RHP
AA 2. Eric Hosmer--1B
4. Mike Montgomery--LHP
5. John Lamb--LHP
6. Chris Dwyer--LHP
9. Christian Colon--2B/SS
10 Aaron Crow--RHP
20. Sal Perez--C
21. Derrick Robinson--CF
24. Will Smith--LHP
25. Paulo Orlando--OF
26. Kevin Chapman--LHP
29. Buddy Baumann--LHP
35. Patrick Keating--RHP
39. Blaine Hardy--LHP
47. Rey Navarro--2B/SS
51. Henry Barrera--RHP
60. Brandon Sisk--LHP
High-A 1. Wil Myers--C/OF
8. Jake Odorizzi--RHP
17. Tim Melville--RHP
28. Tyler Sample--RHP
30. Noel Arguelles--LHP
41. Kelvin Herrera--RHP
43. Justin Marks--LHP
44. Elisaul Pimentel--RHP
50. Jose Bonilla-C
56. Keaton Hayenga--RHP
Low-A 11. Cheslor Cuthbert--3B
12. Brett Eibner--CF
18. Robinson Yambati--RHP
19. Yordano Ventura--RHP
23. Jason Adam--RHP
32. Crawford Simmons--LHP
52. Greg BIllo--RHP
54. Yowil Espinal--2B
58. Wilian Avinazar--RHP
59. Mike Mariot--RHP
61. Justin Trapp--SS
62. Leonel Santiago--RHP
63. Murray Watts--1B
64. Brian Fletcher--OF
65. Pat White--CF
Short-Season 40. Michael Antonio--SS
42. Humberto Arteaga--SS
45. Jorge Bonifacio--CF
55. Paul Carlixte--SS
57. Shin Jo-Ho--C

 

Here is my overall Top 25 for prospects.  Also, I note below where I would rank other Royals prospects in a Top 100 list.

Rank Name
1 Bryce Harper--WAS--OF
2 Mike Trout--LAA--CF
3 Jeremy Hellickson--TAM--RHP
4 Julio Teheran--ATL--RHP
5 Wil Myers--KC--C/OF
6 Jesus Montero--NYY--C/DH
7 Eric Hosmer--KC--1B
8 Mike Moustakas--KC--3B
9 Dominic Brown--PHI--OF
10 Shelby Miller--STL--RHP
11 Matt Moore--TAM--LHP
12 Desmond Jennings--TAM--CF
13 Dustin Ackley--SEA--2B
14 Freddie Freeman--ATL--1B
15 Mike Montgomery--KC--LHP
16 Aroldis Chapman--CIN--LHP
17 Michael Pineda--SEA--RHP
18 Mike Minor--ATL--LHP
19 John Lamb--KC--LHP
20 Kyle Gibson--MIN--RHP
21 Jameson Taillon--PIT--RHP
22 Brandon Belt--SFG--1B
23 Zach Britton--BAL--RHP
24 Manny Machado--BAL--SS
25 Randall Delgado--ATL--RHP

 

I would rank Duffy and Dwyer in the 50s, Odorizzi in the 60s, Colon in the 70s and Crow in the 90s. 

 

Here are the AL Central farm systems and how they stack up against each other.

Rank CHI CLE DET KC MIN
1 Chris Sale Jason Kipnis Jacob Turner Mike Moustakas Kyle Gibson
2 Brent Morel Lonnie Chisenahall Nick Castellanos John Lamb Aaron Hicks
3 Dayan Viciedo Drew Pomeranz Andy Oliver Eric Hosmer Miguel Sano
4 Jared Mitchell Alex White Chance Ruffin Wil Myers Joe Benson
5 Eduardo Escobar LeVon Washington Daniel Schlereth Mike Montgomery Ben Revere
6 Gregori Infante Nick Weglarz Daniel Fields Chris Dwyer Liam Hendriks
7 Jacob Petricka Joe Gardner Drew Smyly Dan Duffy Alex Wimmers
8 Brandon Short Jason Knapp Casey Crosby Jeremy Jeffress Adrian Salcedo
9 Trayce Thompson Tony Wolters Francisco Martinez Jake Odorizzi Oswaldo Arcia
10 Anthony Carter Cord Phelps Bruce Rondon Christian Colon Carlos Gutierrez

 

I tried to use Kevin Goldstein's star rankings--but he hasn't done the White Sox/Twins--so I used BA's rankings and guessed at the stars.  5 star prospects=Top 50ish and are bold/italic.  4 star prospects=Top 100ish and are normal.  3 star=101-200ish and are bold.  2 star prospects=filler and are italicized.  The Twins have a good farm system and look to be a good team for the foreseeable future.  Cleveland has a deep farm system but not many impact players.  Chicago and Detroit are in win now mode--but have the deep pockets to stay competitive if they are smart.

 

A year from now what might the Royals farm system look like?  Below is some creative writing and a look into the future.

Rank Name Comment
1 Wil Myers One of top prospects in baseball after dominating Carolina and Texas Leagues
2 Eric Hosmer Ready to take over 1st Base after showing big power in AAA
3 George Springer The Royals 1st Round pick has the potential to be a more athletic Jay Bruce
4 John Lamb Could start 2012 in the rotation after lots of Ks and good control at AA and AAA.
5 Jake Odorizzi Put it all together at Wilmington--and pitched well at AA
6 Yordano Ventura Incredible stuff that dominated at Low-A
7 Brett Eibner Dominated at Low-A and then hit well at Wilmington after promotion.
8 Cheslor Cuthbert Hit for average and power as 18 year old at Kane County.
9 Sal Perez Handled the AA pitching staff with ease and the bat won't hurt you.
10 Humberto Arteaga 17 year old had strong short season debut--showing good bat and glove
11 Tim Melville Bounced back with a good 2011--starting in Wilmington and finished in NW Arkansas.
12 Noel Arguelles He exists and looked good but still battled some injuries.
13 Chris Dwyer Had an up and down year at AA--control needs help.
14 Robinson Yambati Showed good stuff in the Midwest League
15 Kelvim Herrera Finally got healthy at mid season and showed the stuff that has everyone excited.

 

The Royals could easily have a Top 3 system next year--even if they graduate some top prospects in 2011 (like Moose, Monty and Duffy).  They should add a top prospect with their 1st Round pick of the June draft.  They also have a lot high ceiling prospects (especially pitchers) who could emerge in 2011. 

 

There you go.  I've sliced and diced Royals prospects just about every way I can imagine.  All we need now is for games to start and be able to see how these kids perform.  Thanks to everyone for reading the series and all the great comments.

Comment 85 comments  |  19 recs  | 

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great work as always

This kind if stuff is not only a lot of work to research, but also to write-up. You’ve been a great addition to the site the last 2 years or so..

Frankly, though, what impresses me most is the tables. I can say from experience that they are a pain in the ass to deal with in the SBNation editor.

Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Jan 17, 2011 11:37 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

Thanks

and I agree about the tables. I’d trade Moustakas for the ability to import Excel or Google docs into the editor. I was sick for most of the past week and sat in bed and edited the tables.

by nwroyal on Jan 17, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I've resorted to screenshots of google docs half the time,

the other times it is tableizer.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Jan 17, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I cut and paste tables from OO with borders into the editor in Firefox

it is a weird setup, but saves a ton of time.

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on Jan 18, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

I concur with Matt

Your prospect work here has been great.

Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity

by Old Man Duggan on Jan 17, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

great job - I will want to refer back to this for some time

but, question: can Adcock start in AAA? Doesn’t he have to be on the big boy roster?

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Jan 17, 2011 11:56 AM EST reply actions  

ERROR

Please rephrase your question in the form of a euphemism.

by PopeSoria on Jan 17, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

how is this?

Don’t we have to Adcock to the major league roster?

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Jan 17, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't we have to have cock on the major league roster?

"Chiefs will...crush our enemies, see them drivin before us and hear the lamentation of the women."

by Brian Harris on Jan 17, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Adcock

As things stand, he has to stay on the roster—I see us either working out a deal with his old team (Pit?) to send him down to AA or AAA or simply returning him.

by nwroyal on Jan 17, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I know I'd be surprised

if Adcock and Pucetas weren’t the two players designated for assignment. I’d prefer Chavez to replace Adcock in that equation, as he is replaceable in-house (and, well, sucks). I just don’t know what Adcock adds other than cock to the team.

Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity

by Old Man Duggan on Jan 17, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

question about moustakas.

I understand we don’t need to rush this guy. I understand that Betimit has earned the right to at least try and hold down third next year. I even get that Mous is young and could probably benefit from another year playing AAA ball.

 But this guy destroyed AA pitching two years ago, He killed AA pitching last year, had about a 3 week hiccup after going to AAA ball, then comminced to smashing anything that within 20 feet of the plate.

Does this guy really not get at least a hard look at spring training?

"Chiefs will...crush our enemies, see them drivin before us and hear the lamentation of the women."

by Brian Harris on Jan 17, 2011 1:07 PM EST reply actions  

Service time will likely win out no matter how well he does in ST.

by Matt Hays on Jan 17, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

The Royals get Moustakas for an extra year if he stays in the minors until the end of April and save several million by delaying arbitration eligibility by a year if he stays in the minors until June.

Moustakas also did not destroy AA pitching two years ago — he actually somewhat struggled against A+ ball pitching two years ago.

by Gopherballs on Jan 17, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Even if he is "ready"

It makes sense to keep him more affordable long term having him play in AAA til June. The only reason to push a hitter like him is the case of Heyward last year, when you are trying to make a push. The Giant’s proved with Posey you don’t even need to do that to win, however, so there really isn’t a reason to bring him to KC.

by Boots 58 on Jan 17, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Also with Omaha moving into a new stadium, it will allow him plenty of at bats in an unfamiliar environment. I know The K will be new to him as well, but atleast Omaha will provide him with an additional challenge to overcome early on this season.

by Matt Hays on Jan 17, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I really want him to face the more advanced pitching in AAA. Memories of Alex Gordon are still fresh.

by sfeldkamp on Jan 17, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Im a first time poster but long time reader and love this site. Great job nwroyal!

Has there been any news on Noel Arguelles? Last year it was rumored that he had some issues with his attitude but I also heard that he had some sort of injury. I was really excited when we picked him up, I would hate to see him waste all of that talent. Has anyone watched him pitch?

by usethejon on Jan 17, 2011 1:33 PM EST reply actions  

No, because he has not pitched yet.

There is some footage of him throwing if you want.
http://vimeo.com/7208109

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Jan 17, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

What is more real? A unicorn...

or Paul Carlixte? Or maybe he IS a unicorn, with plus hooves, who plays a very rangy SS.

I have heard absolutely nothing about this guy since the news of the Royals signing him (over a year ago at this point)? Does he truly exist? And if so, where will he be starting the 2011 baseball year?

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jan 17, 2011 2:08 PM EST reply actions  

I thought his name was Orlando Caxito he showed up on the Dominican team last season maybe I'm wrong

Played 20 games put up a .668 OPS is 5’11 160 lbs, did draw 13 walks in those 20 games

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 17, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I have no idea what is going on, just that the Royals allegedly signed Paul/Orlando Calixte/Caxito.

And that he’s supposed to be awesome. (Like a unicorn.) This is from a Keith Law chat last January:

Geoff (KCMO)

Can you tell me anything about Paul Carlixte? Can’t find anything on him. You’re not an idiot. LOL.

Klaw (1:48 PM)

Only what I had in the Rumor Central post – soft hands, quick bat, athletic kid – from a source who has seen him play, which I haven’t. Talked to another international guy and said KC is going to sign Carlixte, and he said, “Which one, Wilson or Orlando?” Always a good sign for a guy with an age or identity “irregularity.”

So now, there’s apparently a Wilson Calixte/Caxito in the mix, too. If the Royals happened to sign him, too, then I hope he’s awesome, as well. We’ll call him Pegasus.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jan 17, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Curious about the Myers/Montero ranking

Is it based on something other than hitting stuff? I tend to think that Myers is the Royals best prospect, and probably a top 10 prospect overall, but I’ve yet to read anything from a scout that says he’s a better hitter than Montero. I don’t think that’s a putdown, of course. And maybe your reasons are defensive (Myers might stick at cathcer, or end up in RF; Montero will probably move to 1B/DH or something like that). But let’s look at the three slash lines at similar ages (Montero is almost exactly a year older than Myers)

Age 18:

Myers .369/.427/.679 in just 96 PA (although impressive ones) in rookie ball
Jesus .326/.376/.491 in 569 PA in A

Age 19:

Myers .315/.429/.506 in 541 PA between A and A+
Jesus .337/.389/.562 in 397 PA between A+ and AA

Age 20:
Myers: no PA yet, will start 2011 in AA
Jesus: .289/.353/.517 in 504 PA

Myers did spend half of his age 19 season in Wilmington’s death valley; on the other hand, Montero’s AA and AAA leagues and parks generally favor the pitchers. Keep that in mind this next season when comparing Myers AA/AAA numbers with Montero’s.

Not a huge deal, just curious about your reasons.

Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
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by Matt Klaassen on Jan 17, 2011 2:11 PM EST reply actions  

Myers vs. Montero

yeah, it basically comes down to defense. I don’t expect either one to stay a C. Montero will probably hit more than Myers—but I’m not sure it will be enough to overcome him being a DH (or 1B) if Myers plays a decent/good RF.

For fantasy, I would take Montero. But I lean towards Myers having a better WAR—but I can respect those who would take Montero over Myers.

by nwroyal on Jan 17, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting numbers from Cairo

A projection system found here. Keep in mind that MLEs are one of the most difficult and debated issues with sabermetrics. I’ve translated these into custom wOBA for the 2010 run environment for consistency with other stuff I do. Here are the projected 2011 major league lines for some Royals (and other) prospects. Don’t freak out or judge the Cairo as a whole (which has done well some years versus the “big boys”) by these.

Prospect name, three slash, wOBA, runs above average 150 games (630 PA)

Moose .258/.300/.418, .303 wOBA, -8/150
Hos .248/.317/.384, .308 wOBA, -6/150
Johnny G. .257/.316/.361, .299 wOBA, -10/150
Clint R. .255/.310/.400, .308 wOBA, -6/150
Tim Smith .258/.311/.369, .294 wOBA, -13/150
Lorenzo Cain, .240/.310/.347, .296 OBA, -12/150
Manuel Pina, .248/.294/.348, 286 wOBA, -26/150
Jesus Montero, .261/.326/.446, .338 wOBA, +8/150

To top of the pro-Yankee bias, I there isn’t a Myers projection yet (not sure why not, although I’d be REALLY careful with any MLEs based purely on pre-AA stats).

Just interesting stuff. Remember that this isn’t a career projection or “peak value” or anything, just an estimation of what they would do in the majors in 2011 based on available data.

Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Jan 17, 2011 2:33 PM EST reply actions  

in case anyone unfamiliar with my m.o. wanders along

the “pro-Yankee” bias thing is a joke

Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Jan 17, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I am going to start telling people I have a negative-Yankee bias.

by Matt Hays on Jan 17, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

"Keep in mind that MLEs are one of the most difficult and debated issues with sabermetrics."

What’s your opinion on Brian Cartwright’s work on MLE’s on his Oliver projection system at The Hardball Times?

He uses a direct comparison method vs a chaining method to creat MLE’s that he claims (supported with data) is more accurate.

by HoldenCornfield on Jan 17, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't subscribe yet

but I did read his research articles at StatSpeak and BP and elsewhere about them. Theoretically, it sounds like an improvement. There are still issues of selection bias and I imagine sample size comes up as well (just guessing); it would be interesting to see comparisons of his projections based just on MLEs with those of ZiPS, PECOTA, Cairo, etc.

Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Jan 17, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Oliver Numbers

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on Jan 18, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow I'd take those Moustakas numbers

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but check out Myers’s numbers at age 20 compared to Mooses at age 22.

by BlueEyes_Austin on Jan 18, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure, but was based off his TZ numbers

I would trust my eyes before I would minor league TZ.

Let me see which components are being him down.

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by Jeff Zimmerman on Jan 18, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

It is not broken down by component and here are his minor league numbers so far

Year Tm Lg Class G Field
2008 IDA PIO R+ 3 -0.6
2009 BUR MID A 79 -4.2
2009 WIL CAR A+ 27 1.6
2010 SUR Fall 19 -2.2
2010 NWA TEX AA 50 -1.5
2010 WIL CAR A+ 86 -0.5

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by Jeff Zimmerman on Jan 18, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

He's basically Billy Butler in the field right now.

We were lead to believe he was much better, and I’d have to assume he is if there is any talk of him in RF.

What does changing his Fielding to 0 (assuming that’s average) do to his WAR projection?

by AxDxMx on Jan 18, 2011 8:43 PM EST up reply actions  

0.3 WAR

2009 is really dragging him down

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by Jeff Zimmerman on Jan 18, 2011 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Tim Smith?

He didn’t make the list. I know he’s not exciting and probably won’t amount to much, but he’s had good OBP throughout the minors and isn’t that far from the majors (especially considering our lack of OF depth—though having Lough in a corner is probably way better than Smith.) Just thought I’d bring it up, great job by nwroyal.

by BrRoyal on Jan 17, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

one of the last cuts

I can see the case for him being on the list—but I felt like he’s going to need to hit well—as he’ll be limited to LF and his defense there is not great—and I’m just not sure if has enough bat. Ultimately, I went with Brian Fletcher—who is similar to Smith in a lot of ways—but is a couple years younger and I think his bat plays a little better—but I wouldn’t be surprised if I was wrong. #60-65 could be filled with about 15-20 different guys.

by nwroyal on Jan 17, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Tim Smith strikes me as a typical 4A type of OF

He has some talent – good hitter, runs ok, a little power but doesn’t have the plus tools that make him a legitimate prospect. I believe he’ll repeat AA with Van Stratten, Francis and D. Robinson.

I root for guys like Smith as they are good players, just not prospects.

by daveyork on Jan 17, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Fletcher's dad is Scott Fletcher

who used to torch us on a regular basis. Pedigree.

by Dadunca on Jan 17, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

How well have CAIRO's projections fared compared to ZiPS, Chone, PECOTA, Oliver, etc.?

Are there any articles out on studies after the 2010 season comparing the performance of various projection systems?

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

All I know of is that

http://replacementlevel.com/ had some data

Also, Tom Tango had the forecaster’s challenge where 22 systems went head to head.

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by Jeff Zimmerman on Jan 18, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Have any idea how the forecaster challenge turned out?

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I know John Hansen and Chone were the winners

Marcels did very well this year. Let me see if I can find them.

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by Jeff Zimmerman on Jan 18, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

CAIRO did horribly

And no ZiPS in the challenge.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

That was my fault – I didn’t read the directions well enough and didn’t give Tom a few stats he needed for the challenge, so I got disqualified!

--
Dan Szymborski
Dan's Stuff is on: BTF, ESPN, Twitter

by D.Szymborski on Jan 18, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Sweet on disqual.

I am hoping to see how it holds up this year.

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by Jeff Zimmerman on Jan 18, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Why isn't Marcel up on Fangraphs?

Usually they have Marcel and those silly Bill James projections up very early in the offseason. Now it’s just BJ.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Tom Tango is the one that furnishes Marcels, I am not sure.

Hansen is supposed to be putting his up also. He doesn’t use weight averages from previous seasons, but some other method. I will be interesting to see how his is different.

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by Jeff Zimmerman on Jan 18, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Are Hansen's projections going up at Fangraphs?

And it’s bizarre to think of a projection system that isn’t based on weight averages of recent seasons. I assume that is the basis of every other major projection system.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

From what I get, he looks at peak performance and assumes that player can always perform at that level

He says he will provide it to Fangraphs.

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by Jeff Zimmerman on Jan 18, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

For example

He would really like Hosmer compared to other systems, because he would throw out the horrible 2009.

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by Jeff Zimmerman on Jan 18, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I am not sure on MLE's with Hansen.

Aviles might have been a better example.

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by Jeff Zimmerman on Jan 18, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I had to.

I was amazed that I left for lunch, and came back to see that no one jumped on that one.

The prophecy has been fulfilled.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 17, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

TWSS

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Jan 17, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

if...

we’re all still here in 2018, we’ll be talking about Montgomery’s 5 year 200 million dollar contract with the Yankees.

by Peterman700 on Jan 17, 2011 5:18 PM EST reply actions  

inspiring

thanks for the hard work on Adcock, nwroyal.

we are deep and I can’t wait to see how far the top 30 will go.

Whether he catches or not, I see Myers in AA and Perez starting in A+. Perez is one of my favs – he can handle either job.

DH: Where's the party!
Danny: David Howard and Mike Sweeney! Go away! Guys, you're gonna wake up my Mom!

by David Howards Legacy on Jan 17, 2011 5:42 PM EST reply actions  

Is Nate Adcock a guy who KC would make a minor deal to keep since he is a Rule 5?

With the depth of upper level minor league talent has, I don’t see how he makes the Royals over guys like Coleman, Collins, Blaine Hardy, Wood, or Holland. He has talent but has only pitched at high A – KC has literally 15-20 pitchers who are more ready for the bigs than Adcock.

by daveyork on Jan 17, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Adcock is a SP. That’s where the org sees him going forward. Stuff doesn’t translate to relief.

by WURoyal on Jan 17, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

So, what’s the latest Longoria-ness of the Royals farm system?

by Yamfun Cheng Kamfun on Jan 18, 2011 12:13 AM EST reply actions  

That pitching depth is crazy

Not even including the bullpen arms.

by vic1124 on Jan 18, 2011 2:32 AM EST reply actions  

I'm super pumped about our minor league system

i know the Royals are going to be terrible in 2011, but in 2012 the LHP are going to take over the Royals rotation. I CANT WAIT FOR IT, 2014……………..world series, ROYALS AND PHILLIES

i would like to have a photographic memory, but it never developed

by beltran42 on Jan 18, 2011 5:31 AM EST reply actions  

the phillies will be fucked by then

their system isnt good and they’ll be really really old players alot of money

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Great job all off-season

I love keeping track of the newer guys and lower levels of the system, and your work makes that easier.

Two questions:
1). Is Crow not in your projected year-from-now system because he’ll be in KC or he’ll fall off a cliff?

2) Why would Ventura and Yambati skip the advanced short seasons? They haven’t pitched past Arizona, which isn’t as competitive as the other two leagues, and skipping the level seems to run counter to the Royals’ slower development pattern. Especially Ventura, who has less than a full season stateside.

It's all ball bearings these days!

by CentralChamps20?? on Jan 18, 2011 10:45 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

maybe b/c they want them to pitch in real games all season....

those short season leagues are skipped by most real prospects

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I could see Ventur and Yambati

staying in extended ST and then going to full season ball when the weather heats up some. but if their stuff is as good as advertised, I don’t see much being gained by them doing short season ball again.

by nwroyal on Jan 18, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Colon

Are we expecting him to be at 2B out of the gate in 2012?

by myerkc on Jan 18, 2011 11:57 AM EST reply actions  

No official word

they may keep at SS for awhile to see what Escobar hits like.

by nwroyal on Jan 18, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's to hoping Pat White can pull some magic

And put up some 5 tool numbers in CF, moving up a couple levels this year.

Finding an extra legitimate bat in a good defensive OF would be huge.

by WURoyal on Jan 25, 2011 1:09 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

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