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Breaking News: Royals Pitcher Gil Meche to Retire

Wow, this is certainly a surprise. Long expected to pitch out of the bullpen for the 2011 Royals, Gil Meche has announced at this hour that he is retiring. I am unsure how this impacts Meche's $12.5 million dollar salary for 2011. (Seemingly everyone is of the belief that he is "walking away from $12 million" though I don't think it's that certain that it's that simple. However, both the Royals and Meche have incentive to portray it that way.)

Gil Meche's time in Kansas City is a perfect example of why long-term contracts, especially for pitchers, are a risk for most of the organizations in baseball. His Royal career is also evidence that, oftentimes, we really don't know what we're talking about. And by we, I mean, just about everyone. In four years the Meche contract went from being a joke, to a huge win for the Royals, to a potential concern, to something of a joke today. It has been seen as one of Dayton Moore's biggest mistakes and greatest triumphs. And if it was actually a little of both, what does that say about how we assign credit and agency in baseball? Was Moore merely lucky, then unlucky? Smart, to a point, then dumb to a point? It's hard to say. After the signing, there were multiple reports that in order to snag Meche, the Royals needed to offer an extra year to the Mariners hurler. Well, that extra year is 2011 and Gil Meche is not planning to pitch in 2011.

In 2007 the Royals signed Gil Meche to an equally stunning 5 year/$55 million dollar contract, one of the most surprising free agent signings of the last decade. Although initially lampooned by nearly everyone, in 2007, the Royals sold the move as a franchise altering decision. The Meche signing was a signal to the rest of the league: the Royals are serious! the Royals are players on the FA market! the Royals will spend money!

For at least the next two years, however, the Meche contract was also seen as evidence that Dayton Moore knew how to find pitchers. Royal pitching improved dramatically in 2007, and remained better than usual in 2008. Gil Meche, the embattled Gil Meche, the hilarious ace, stunningly emerged as a 4-5 win pitcher (Fangraphs WAR) in 2007-08. Meche's walks and homers allowed went down, and in 2008 he posted the highest K rate of his career. If the Royals wanted Meche to stabilize (certainly a franchise buzzword even then) a young rotation, Meche certainly did. He made 34 starts in both '07 and '08, throwing a total of 426 innings. The Royals, so it seemed, really did know what they were doing.

Star-divide

In 2009 however, things turned. Injury issues returned for Meche. The walks returned, the strikeouts slowed down and Meche began sliding towards mediocrity, with dark shadowings of even worse performance looming. There's something of a consensus that Trey Hillman mismanaged Meche's injuries so thoroughly, that he more or less destroyed Meche's career. Can it be that simple? Are decisions like that really left up to the strange middle aged man wearing a player's uniform that we call the manager? Oh Gil, why do you bring out such questions?

And thus, we had the collapse of 2009 and the palsy of 2010: Meche here, Meche there, Meche somewhat weirdly deciding not to have surgery done, Meche reinventing himself as a reliever. From this computer, I thought Meche was trying too hard at the tough guy routine, yet people in the know told me the opposite: that Meche was seen as soft, throughout baseball, while there was a major break between the player and the team's medical staff. I can't say. More ambiguity.

Now, out of nowhere, he's done. For the last three years, it has been like this for Gil Meche. It would not surprise me if he un-retires in six months, and we discover he's learning the palmball in the Mexican Leagues. It wouldn't surprise me if he resurfaces with the 2013 Red Sox or if we never hear from him again.

All we can say for his Royal legacy is that, sadly, he did not alter the direction of the franchise. His $55 million may have sent a message to the industry, but ultimately that message was meaningless. The Royal payroll ebbed and flowed according to other factors. Perhaps most critically, the Royals are set to play out his 5 year contract, without a once sniffing .500. If Meche was brought in to stabilize the rotation, emphatically, over the course of his contract, he did not. If he was brought in to lead the young pitchers to glory, emphatically, he did not. If he was brought in to win over fans, emphatically, he did not. I cannot fail to see that every soft factor justification of this signing was a complete failure.

What Gil Meche did, however, was pitch very well for two seasons. His performance in a third, that 2009 campaign when the paint began to come off of the walls, wasn't one to discard either. Not in Kansas City. All told however, when you are set to barely pitch for a full half of your contract, you won't be remembered fondly.

Gil Meche was supposed to shape Dayton Moore's regime in KC. Oddly, the overall effect of all the ups and downs is simply a negation. Five years, $55 million was supposed to mean so much, for everyone. Four years later, it means almost nothing.

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So do we get back his $12mil?

Since he retired instead of being cut…

by Raiderhater1 on Jan 18, 2011 12:53 PM EST reply actions  

Yes, he has forfeited the 12M by retiring.

And, I have renewed respect for Gil Meche.

To retire and forfeit 12M is something that most guys today simply would not do, preferring to milk the system for as long as possible before they’re forced out.

He could have easily done that.

Because of Mr. Meche’s unselfish act, the Royals should be in a much better position, to bring in some "real" relief talent.

12M buys a lot of pitching. Perhaps 2 years of a middle of the rotation starter can now be bought, if it can be found.

The Meche signing was one of the worst in Royals history, but kudo’s to Gil for minimizing the damage he has done to the team that made him a very rich man.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm thinking the Royals, will immediately re-invest half of the 12M slated to be

paid to Meche, for another starter and a middle relief man, and save the rest. We should see a couple of more signings now, very soon.

But who’s available????

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Why not?

We can’t win the division with who we have now.

There are tons of roster spots that can be upgraded with 12M for 2011.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

No matter who we pick up for 12M....

the Royals are still extremely unlikely to win the division in 2011 (that’s putting it kindly).

Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau

by aHorseWithNoName on Jan 18, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions  

minor upgrades at what positions make sense?

we could make the best FA signings from the available guys and we still dont win the division

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Manny Ramirez!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

i'd have loved to have him instead of frenchy

i think billy could learn alot from manny as a hitter and from his work ethic….and even if not, he OBPd over 400 last year

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

His work ethic?

We are talking about the 2011 version of Manny Ramirez right? Not the 2002 version?

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jan 19, 2011 6:00 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't doubt his dedication to hitting

and perfecting that part of his game, but that isn’t the same as work ethic IMO.

The guy has gotten fat in the last few years. Not Prince Fielder fat, but Jose Guillen fat. That doesn’t scream work ethic to me.

I also tend to lump the whole, ‘quit playing hard to force his way out of Boston’ thing under ‘work ethic’ as well

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jan 19, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

but, “In shape” isn’t a designation I would put on him.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jan 19, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

it depends on what shape you are talking about

oblate spheroid?

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Jan 19, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Soft

was the proper term I was looking for when describing JoGui & manny

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jan 19, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

"Round" is a shape

Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Jan 19, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

1.060 OPS in July....

him quitting playing hard to get out of Boston is a fucking joke

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

So you wanna give him 20M to DH?

He can’t play the outfield, everyone knows that but you apparently.

Now I truly understand the depths of your baseball knowledge.

Talk about ruining a baseball team.

My god.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

he's looking for a very minimal amount of money

scott boras came out and said that at the beginning of the offseason

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Still

it is ignorant of you to blast The K-Man for wanting to sign a couple pitchers, and then you say you want to sign Manny.

Even if we got Manny for cheap, it isn’t anything but wasted $$ as no matter what #‘s he puts up, we ain’t competing in ’11

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jan 19, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

i know my desire for manny is irrational....

i dont think it’ll help us to win the division. I just like watching Manny hit and think there are alot of things that manny does that could be of assistance to to billy butler. I just stated that I’d prefer to have him over Frenchy. Since Frenchy is already locked in, clearly I’m not advocating it.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

at one point we needed an OF (which is a stretch for manny, i know)

but he wouldnt have blocked anyone who we needed to find out about and is actually, you know, good. Manny or Francouer? Its going to be about even money.

Siging shitty pitchers would cost money, not provide much of an upgrade and block young guys. If Kman was making an argument that we shouldve signed X instead of Y b/c he thought they’d have been a better player for us, then its a different story. Instead he’s talking about adding 3 mediocre guys.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Well here they are at SP.

Jeremy Bonderman SP
Doug Davis SP
Justin Duchscherer SP
Freddy Garcia SP
Braden Looper SP
Rodrigo Lopez SP
John Maine SP
Pedro Martinez SP
Kevin Millwood SP
Brian Moehler RF / SP
Jamie Moyer SP
Carl Pavano SP
Andy Pettitte SP
Nate Robertson SP
Jeff Suppan SP / RP (Right-Handed)
Jarrod Washburn SP
Todd Wellemeyer SP
Chris Young SP

I think there are a few guys on this list that are upgrades over Mazzaro, O’Sullivan, and Davies.

Don’t you?

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Pavano would immediately replace Greinke as the staff Ace.

He’s expected to re-sign with the Twins this week but the Pirates are said to have been making him offers.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Washburn would be better than 4 of our 5 starters, and is an innings eater.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions  

A one year deal for Moyer for about 2M could provide excellent

leadership for a young rotation.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions  

ok...go away now, you're clueless....

moyer just had tommy john surgery like a month ago

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't know that.

What is it with you…people have to be all-knowing of everything, and mistake free, or you’re superior of them and critical?

I feel sorry for you man.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

you just attacked my perfectly reasonable logic....

while minutes earlier suggesting that we sign Jamie Moyer

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh...well then....

Please allow me to apologize personally to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpiIrTTrnos

Feel better now?

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Washburn? You've got to be kidding

Does he come with his own time machine so he can go back to when he was a decent pitcher. Or should Moore sign a bunch of names that you recognize and remember were once good?

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Washburn was never good.

Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity

by Old Man Duggan on Jan 19, 2011 12:46 AM EST up reply actions  

you're gonna spend $12 million and

pick up at a minimum of 15 games from those fucking guys?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Who said anything about 12M.

In fact, I said, I expect the Royals to re-invest half, that means they may spend about 6M more to upgrade pitching. Where DM would spend it, is anyone’s guess, because we all know, he’s a crazy man.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Let's be clear, it's a shitty list of guys, for the most part.

But make a list of our starting rotation.

Nothing is shittier than THAT.

If you wanna just concede last place right now, and do nothing, fine by me.

I’m a Royals fan. I’m used to that mentality.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions  

i dont want to concede last place....

but i also dont want to harm us in the future by giving pavano a 3 year deal so that maybe we can finish in 4th place

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

meche's retirement was a gift....

and by signing pavano we turn a hugely positive thing into Jogui 2.0

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

+1

We need to put that cash in a cookie jar and use it on real talent in the next couple of years.

by I_Bleed_Red. on Jan 18, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly.

Found money doesn’t need to be spent right away.

People make really poor decisions when they get money they didn’t expect to have.

by AxDxMx on Jan 18, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I really like watching the I won the lottery shows

Generally a great way to learn how not to spend any unexpected cash.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly.

My plan if I ever won the lottery (that I don’t play), is to invest it all and live off the interest til I die, and then set up trusts or whatever to provide for my offspring in the same manner. Though I would be tempted to give all my friends a taste.

$50M lump sum payout is enough to get $1M per year at 2% interest.

by AxDxMx on Jan 18, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Just saying, a couple of upgrades can be had from the list

and that would give the fans, at least some hope for staying out of the cellar again. JMO.

But I understand the way you think Billy…..The willingness to remain hopeless for 2011 is key to one’s ability to remain a Royals fan.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions  

You just got Jeff Francis and Bruce Chen

as upgrades over Sean O’Sullivan and Zach Miner. They can’t un-sign Hochevar, Davies, Francis, and Chen now. If you spend $6M on a mediocre SP at this point, you won’t gain full utilization of Mazarro (who you expended DDJ to get) and you might not find out if you have anything in Everett Teaford this year.

It’s not a willingness to remain hopeless. It’s having a clue about where the franchise is and how to best use resources to build a long-term winner.

by Tito42 on Jan 18, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Right, I just want them to upgrade Davies and O'Sullivan

now, and move them to the bullpen, where one would replace Meche, and the other any number of other guys in the pen.

Like Chavez, Holland or Texiera. Davies and O’Sullivan would be much better out of the pen than any of those guys.

Miner was just signed but looks promising out of the pen too.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

It's also worth noting

that, while winning 15 more games would get us over .500, the Royals finished 27 games out of 1st. Even if 1 guy could get us 15 wins more (and I don’t see any of those guys on your list), we’re still a long way from winning the division.

Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau

by aHorseWithNoName on Jan 18, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for stating the obvious.

It’s about the baby steps right now. We just need to keep taking them.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

baby steps forward....

not backwards…which signing those guys would be…just like signing chen

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Baby steps towards actually building a contender

More #4/#5 starter stopgaps don’t get us closer to contention. Don’t waste any more money on pointless veteran pitchers.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I felt the need to state the obvious

because it doesn’t appear that you are accepting it. We are not competing for the division in 2011. Get used to it.

Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau

by aHorseWithNoName on Jan 18, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm afraid I am used to it.

I just don’t want to attain the same level of comfort about being a perennial loser and last place team, as you guys.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean the worst thing that could happen for spending

another 6 million on an upgrade at starter and middle relief is that we still finish in last place.

So who gives a damn. At least they tried then.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

and wasted money that could actually help in the future....

with $6 million, you’re getting a 5th starter and a mediocre MR…that wins us a couple of extra wins…IF DM would sign the right two guys.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I love your "waste more money plan"

Hey, it’s worked for the Royals so far, so let’s keep it up!

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

You realize that the farm system is going to improve things significantly over the next 2-3 years

and we’ll need to supplement then. Patience is the key here. Spending on actual good talent in those years will be key to contention. Right now there are just too many holes to fill.

by AxDxMx on Jan 18, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

You seem to be forgetting, that a few hours ago, they were going to

just flush the money down the toilet on Gil Meche.

I look at it like free and found money. And I’m sure the Royals do to.

They’re celebrating his retirement right now, and to Dayton Moore, it’s like Christmas.

You can count on that.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

yay....we have money lets flush it down the drain on shitty guys that make no difference....

or we could spend it on prospects in the draft and from LA. one of those is a good plan, one is a bad plan.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Okey dokey then.

Your right.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

You seem to be forgetting, that a few weeks ago

They also just “Found” $12M when they traded Greinke & Betancourt away, and they didn’t go rushing out to start bidding on crappy B list Free Agents (which, is some sort of miracle I think in hindsight).

I like your passion, misguided as it may be. There is absolutely NO point in signing anybody else from the current crop of FA (save possibly Duchesshhshehshrhr on a Francis-like contract), that $$ needs to be either stowed away in a 10 month CD (figuratively speaking) for use NEXT off-season to land a GOOD, YOUNG FA to either go at the top of the rotation, or middle of the lineup, or get spent back in the one thing GMDM has proven he is competent at – acquiring amateur talent.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jan 19, 2011 6:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Is there an echo in here?

Thought I just said that.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

But....that's exactly what the Meche signing was......

flushing money down the drain on a shitty guy that made no difference….

Now we get a year of that mistake back, with a chance to do something good for a change with half the money, and you don’t want to.

Defies logic.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions  

But it's not less money for the draft.

That money was already budgeted for before they found the Meche money.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Good international draft is loaded or there are better FAs next year

Why toss it now on the bottom feeders for an extra couple wins in bad year.

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think you can get "a couple" wins by randomly slinging $12M at this point.

…probably more like “a win,” once you deduct the value of whoever we kick to the curb in the process of signing another mediocre starter…

by kcemigre on Jan 18, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

They can change the payroll budget any time they want to.

You’ve bought in to management’s bs about only having so much to spend.

If they Glass family wanted to win sooner, they could easily break a 100M increase in payroll at will.

They’re just cheap.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

its really dumb of you or anyone

to expect a business owner to willingly lose money

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Spending it on guys in the draft, means you won't see

anything positive come from it for about 4 or 5 years. I’m 52 years old, I just don’t want to wait any more to see a good baseball team in KC.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

its better to see good in 4-5 years

then added mediocrity this year. how is jamie moyer going to help us win this year?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't care about Moyer...it was just a thought, that bringing

in a Veteran could help the young staff.

If I was you I would think like you, but I only have a couple of years medically speaking left to live.

I just want to see them win once more before I die.

Call me selfish if you want to.

I’m ok with that.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

thats fine...and sorry to hear that....

but those guys arent going to help that on 1 year deals….this team has 0 chance of winning the division this year….your best bet is hoping everything comes together in 2013

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions  

If you are on your last couple years I'm sorry for you

but those guys you are talking about aren’t going to change the fortune in 2011. Want to watch a Royal winner travel to Omaha, I’ll give you my tickets for a couple games.

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions  

None of those guys can help you win now.

There is a chance that Matt Purke could slip in the draft with a high demand and tons of leverage as a soph. Take the extra cash and toss it at him. He’d make to KC probably in two years and be under team control for much longer than these guys.

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't care how old you are

I want the Royals to build a winner in the next several years, not waste a bunch of money to win 72 instead of 68 games this year.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Meche was not shitty when he wasn't injured.

And I think the plan was to be competitive at the end of the 5 years. Didn’t really pan out.

by AxDxMx on Jan 18, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't bring in any of those guys

It’s a complete waste to throw away millions on those guys to maybe win a couple more games in this lost season. Forget it. Spend the money on the draft, L.A. free agents and save the rest for use next year or 2013. Don’t just spend money to spend money.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

There is still no evidence

that the amateur talent budget is impacted by the major league payroll.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

do you have evidence that it doesnt?

b/c otherwise, i’d rather them not spend the money and just hope that they are one in the same

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions  

The evidence that I have is pretty simple

No team, even in passing as an anonymous source for a random BA/BP/Rosenthal/ESPN column, has ever suggested that their major league payroll had any impact on who they were able to sign or draft within a given draft class.

Usually, you’d at least expect some random quote from some source “close to the situation” to say that the MLB payroll was too high to fit a certain demand underneath. Rather, what we always hear is that the team didn’t have the player valued that highly in terms of dollars.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Tampa this year will be the best test....

they lowered payroll and have a ton of picks….we’ll see what happens…along with what happens with the royals

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree

Tampa didn’t pay LeVon Washington an extra 250k in 08 as reported by BA because their draft budget didn’t allow for it and because his original dollar figure went up. Tampa also has generally paid out bonuses over slot for players.

I’m not as familiar with Milwaukee, but their huge jump in payroll would correlate with signing more slot players this year [assuming that there is correlation between MLB payroll and the amateur budget]. Their farm system is decimated, so from a talent perspective you’d expect them to take over slot guys in early rounds.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 7:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Tampa was also paying a major league roster much more than they ever had before

milwaukee’s payroll is huge now too and they havent been signing guys overslot either. You’re proving my point for me.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Tampa went over slot last year

And had their highest payroll ever as an organization.

Is this not a reasonable question for someone to ask Goldstein/BP/BA guys and do you think they would comment on it?

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

the rays spent 11% over slot last year

thats the 17th highest number in all of baseball last year…

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Dutton tweet

To all who have asked, no, the #Royals aren’t likely to use the Meche payroll savings to pursue remaining free agents. But budgets for the draft and international scouting could get a boost.

Dutton has a pretty strong in with the FO I would think that’s pretty good evidence they are tied together

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 19, 2011 12:02 AM EST up reply actions  

First, I was talking about what the best use of money would be. I wasn’t commenting on what I was certain Moore had the flexibility to do. Second, do you know what the Royals organizational budget processes are? Neither do I. You appear to be assuming that there is absolutely no flexibility between budget lines and that you will stick to that conclusion unless and until you have positive evidence otherwise. In reality, Moore could have absolutely no such flexibility, or complete flexibility to move money between budget lines. The reality is probably somewhere in between.

I have worked with a number of large organizational budgets with a variety of budget philosophies and procedures. But even in organizations where the budget had the least flexibility, if there were circumstances where certain budgeted funds couldn’t be spent in the way that was originally intended for some reason, this could be brought to the attention of the appropriate person in power (in this case, probably Dan Glass) and if a good case were made, that money could be shifted to another purpose. Quite frankly, it would be shocking if Moore couldn’t do this. And I seriously doubt that any MLB organization has the complete inflexibility that you are suggesting. But if your only point is that we’re not sure if Moore would be able to move budgeted funds from one line item to another, then you are correct. We don’t know for sure.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I must have this argument settled

Next chat I can get in at BA or BP or fangraphs or anywhere, I’m going to try and get Goldstein/Callis/anyone to give a straight answer.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd assume they screen questions

If not, that would be a great question for Moore at fanfest.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

or dress like one

/straps on bonnet

The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 18, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

There are no screeners.

…it’s basically open mic at the public session. Just walk up and ask. I’d love to hear the answer.

by kcemigre on Jan 18, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

thatd be spectacular...a couple of opinions would be preferable.....

im not normally around when the chats are happening live, but if i happen to be, ill do the same

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

If DM can't take the funds available and deploy them where they will produce the best return...

….then he should resign immediately.

I have always thought this argument stupid. If your General Manager isn’t allowed to do this most basic form of “managing” then there really is no hope. People often act like the various items in a budget are immutably set in stone as a way to avoid accountability for the decisions they have made. It’s all shenanigans. We don’t use dollars in one account and wampum in another… it’s all cash. It’s all fungible. When you pretend that certain money can’t be spent in certain ways… despite having no other productive use for those funds, you are making excuses instead of making decisions.

/rant.

by kcemigre on Jan 18, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I think all GM's need and have budget flexibility

It’s just a question of degree. GM’s talk to and even negotiate budget with the team’s owner (or the team’s president) and I’m sure some just agree on a pool of money for the GM to largely spend as he sees fit. I’m sure many others have guidelines as to how much should be spent where (depending on how hands-on and micromanaging the owner is). But I think all have the flexibility to move things around, especially as circumstances change. Sometimes the big, expensive FA’s you want slip through your hands. Sometimes players get traded or retire. Big changes require flexibility. I doubt any organization is so backwards as to say, “no the MLB payroll line on the organizational budget says $62M, so that’s how much you can spend there and none of it can be spent anywhere else, regardless of the fact that the highest paid player has been traded away and the second highest paid player has retired.”

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the Christmas present

went to David Glass. Moore will not see that money.

"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance

by KHAZAD on Jan 19, 2011 5:45 AM EST up reply actions  

100% Agreed

Glass will
Pocket the money.

by DaytonSucks on Jan 19, 2011 5:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

How about Duchsherer and Bonderman

We can immediately make the Bruce Chen signing completely pointless.

by AxDxMx on Jan 18, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Here is the current Royals SP depth chart.

1. L. Hochevar
2. K. Davies
3. V. Mazzaro
4. J. Francis
5. S. O’Sullivan
6. B. Chen

But it could look like this:

Carl Pavano
Jeff Francis
Luke Hochevar
Kevin Millwood
Jarrod Washburn
Todd Wellemeyer

Now that would be a whole lot stronger….would it not?

Ok, let me have it.

Using FA’s from the list.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh....it sniffs....It would definitely sniff.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Face it dude...your a fan of shit.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 8:01 PM EST up reply actions  

i have been for the past 15 years....

and now they’re finally doing the right things to turn it around

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Trying to win this year doesn't bastardize our prospects

or the future in any way.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Because true to Dayton's form, if it's not working by

the break, they can dump them off to contenders. It’s a no risk proposition, considering, the added revenues from the gate and souveniers from the signings.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

That's just wrong.

At least Pavano would have to be a multiyear deal. Dumping a multiyear deal isn’t easy. Especially a bad one. Just ask JoGui.

by AxDxMx on Jan 18, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I have for 50 years.

Used to go to A’s games at old municipal. Tell me about it.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

you also got to see playoff caliber teams from 73-85

dont act like you’ve been through so much worse b/c youre old.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Pavano, Hoch and Frances are capable of being

a formidabble top three, if the stars line up just right.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

That's perfect....considering what we've got now is an

entire rotation of guys who are number fives on a last place team and who wouldn’t be starters at all on 80 percent of all teams.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

The rotation you listed above is at most 6 wins better than the Royals current rotation

And wouldn’t get the Royals to 75 wins. So why bother?

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

It is only David Glass' money

assuming these are all one year deals.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Money that would be better spent elsewhere

in ways that could help the Royals actually contend in future years. In short, a few more wins in 2011 is much, much less important than contending in the future. You have the wrong priorities.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

We are going to go in an endless loop

without knowing how the money could be spent. Someone needs an answer to this posthaste.

I too think that this year is already lost and agree with those on here who think that 2012 isn’t going to be a whole lot better from a strict W/L standpoint. My priorities aren’t wrong, I just think there is a far stricter budget than you do regarding this money.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

if there is a crazy strict budget with regards to how the money is spent

thats stupid, but i wouldnt put it past them.

however, i also dont want to sign these no upside retreads either. I think they’ll get in the way of guys who need to play. we need to see what we’ve got with Mazzarro, Teaford and O’sullivan before the big 4 are ready.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

we already HAVE two of those 3 guys

who you just conceded were 3’s….and then all of the sudden they turn into #5s

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

At least it would fill some seats.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

figure it out on your own.

Hint: It has to do with the club earning money.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

but that extra revenue brought in has already been spent

on your shitty ‘division winning’ pitchers…

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Davies, Mazzaro, O'Sullivan and Chen, are a waste of money and roster space

in my opinion.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't worry, Dayton will keep doing that for you....no worries.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions  

come around more often....

and you’d realize that these arguments have already been done…with logic involved….and pretty much everyone else is on board with the rebuilding. half ass rebuilding has been done here over and over. they’re finally doing it..for real. Be excited. Im over the Juan Gone, Reggie Sanders, HoRam, Kendall type signings….apparently you arent.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Whatever. Your just superior to me in every way.

Let’s just leave it at that.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

But don't talk to me about logic.

Being a Royals fan in the first place, for 50 years, has already defied all logic.

The truly logical person, wouldn’t be a Royals fan in the first place.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions  

If only:
Let’s just leave it at that.

I suspect it may just be time to quit feeding the trolls.

by kcemigre on Jan 18, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

A KC baseball fan yes. If you ever sat in old municipal

and were a fan of Dick Green, Campy Campaneris, Cookie Rojas, and so on…and experienced the sale of the team just before they became a dynasty, then you’d know true frustration. I was a KC baseball fan, many years before you were born.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

you want me to congratulate you for being old?

you say 10-15 years of fucking awesome baseball….dont talk to me about frustration

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

FRONT LOAD A BUTLER EXTENSION.

Seriously, that would be the single best use of this money.

by BlueEyes_Austin on Jan 18, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

i said that a couple months ago....

this is the only big move that makes sense for the royals this offseason

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I would also

Love to see us with high bids on every Cuban FA that is available for awhile.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

And other Latin American FAs for that matter.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Misery loves company.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

What has been preventing us from doing that in the past?

We signed Arguelles and Cuthbert with the franchise having its two highest payrolls ever. We are going to continue to do so [or we might regress], regardless of the Meche money.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Economists argue against this because of the time value of money

They may be right in strict economic terms [basically it only helps the player because of inflation], but a front loaded Butler deal would greatly please me as well.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

it makes sense for the organzation and for butler....

it’ll have him on the books for less at a time when moose hosmer and company start to get expensive….and when billy is more expensive early, it doesnt matter b/c our payroll is next to nothing.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree that a front-loaded Butler extension would work nicely

Just pointing out that you will not find an economist anywhere who will suggest you should front load a contract because of the time-value of money. That does have some merit when discussing whether or not a front-loaded contract could happen and why they rarely do.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

as long as you discount what the future payouts would be, then

paying now or paying later shouldn’t bother the economist. It might bother a risk analyst or an actuarial accountant.

The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 18, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

It shouldn't bother an actuary if it doesn't bother the economist.

Baseball deals are guaranteed, if you give out the same Net Present Value over however many years, it’s all the same. Frontload it, backload it, normal contract, whatever, you can make them all equal by changing the payment amount. More early just means he gets less later.

by AxDxMx on Jan 19, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

i understand that....

i just think it would make sense…take a couple million off the later years and add them to the early years. Butler’s agent would jump all over it. It would cost the royals a little bit just due to the time value of money, but it would make sense…..

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah really

Teams and agents calculate it with every multi-year contract. It’s important to know the real value of any contract, whether front loaded or back loaded. If it makes more sense to frontload the contract, for obvious reasons, then do so.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

One obvious reason for front-loading...

it would make him much easier to trade in the last year or two of the deal. Assuming his salary for those years was significantly lower than the market value of a similar player because of the front-loading..

by Sweep_the_Leg on Jan 19, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Butler should be traded for pitching.

I don’t want to pay big money for a pure DH. That’s what billy is going to become soon with Hosmer coming up. Time to give DH to the Kila monster and trade Butler for a top of the rotation starter.

Billy is a one position player. 1st base, and there’s no room for him there past this year. Time to get some value from him before he tanks at the plate.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah...and THAT will lock the division up....

trading our only above average player…who happens to be 25

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I see Butler...

in our future even if he is just a bat.

by I_Bleed_Red. on Jan 18, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

If we relegated him to pure DH when Hosmer arrives...he'll request

a trade anyway. He’s not happy just DH’ing. Give him what he wants and get a good starter for him.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, is this guy for real?

If so, is this another account for jbrocato?

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, really, we’re all just feeding a troll here.

by kcemigre on Jan 19, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Of the starters you listed, about the only one I'd even bother with is

John Maine as a cheap pickup, because he’s young enough to be useful to the Royals this year as a starter somewhere in the mix or down the road in relief for more than a year or two.

That said, the list of remaining FA starting pitchers is……..ick. We do actually, however, now need a reliever and last I checked there were some there that seemed viable, but I don’t have the list in front of me now. If someone can find it, throw that up here. I’d like to roll the dice on which reliever Moore will pay an insanely inappropriate sum of money to.

by Cap Midnight on Jan 18, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

we have young guys who are ready or will be ready to play this year....

a few of them in fact. We have our 8th inning guy….we have our 9th inning guy…we have our long guy…

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Disagree. What is ick....is our starting rotation for 2011.

Vin Mazarro? O’Sullivan? Chen? Really?

Child please.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

When you see the Royals sign one of those guys to start and one for middle

relief, as a direct result of the the Meche retirement….remember me.

Dayton said before the Meche retirement that he was going to stand pat and go into the season with what we currently have, but now ….

just watch.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

crap,

I WAS first, for a glorious minute or two but I guess Mr. Raiderhater is working on a dial-up connection since it appeared after mine but the time stamp is prior.

I'm devasted.

Yea ≠ Yeah

by labbadabba on Jan 18, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

When I posted

your comment was already on the board…

by Raiderhater1 on Jan 18, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

shenanigans

The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 18, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

SBN probably has code that moves a useless “first” comment into the second spot so that you can be ridiculed.

You are a ridiculous person. Good day.

by sfeldkamp on Jan 18, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Here is his

statement

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 12:56 PM EST reply actions  

WOW

I would guess he has to return the money.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2011 12:57 PM EST reply actions  

Well that blows out the Payroll

NYRoyals just did if he does have to give it back.

by Raiderhater1 on Jan 18, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I doubt he's been paid for 2011 yet

Due $12M this year plus the last installment on his signing bonus ($400K).

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Could be

I hope this and any word on a possible buyout comes out publicly.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

both sides have every incentive to sell this as a move that saves the Royals millions

I just think that, in reality, it won’t be that simple. The Royals could pay Meche 500K to show up as a roving ST instructor for 3 days every year for the next decade or somesuch.

by Freneau on Jan 18, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Certainly

I doubt it will come out, but sometimes things leak. And then of course there are rumors. But the KC sports journalist community doesn’t exactly specialize in investigative journalism.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea, Meche isn't high profile enough for this to remain a story long enough for people to care

I fully expect we’ll just start seeing assertions that Meche’s full salary has disapeared, been freed from the payroll, etc.

I mean, the team already does that, through channels, with standard situations like traded or bought out players, who clearly as still costing the team money, so I expect the same here.

I’m just, highly skeptical that Meche is truly and completely walking away from money that is guaranteed to him. It just… it just doesn’t work like that. Dude has an agent, is part of a union, etc. and doing so, basically because of injury, would create a precedent that no one wants.

by Freneau on Jan 18, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

It just… it just doesn’t work like that. Dude has an agent, is part of a union, etc. and doing so, basically because of injury, would create a precedent that no one wants.

I don’t know. I doubt his agent or union controls him and they don’t really have any leverage on him. And it’s not like he’s the first player to retire when he was still under contract and walk away from money that was on the table, including more than a few due to injury. I’m sure agents, players and the union don’t want the precedent, but Meche can do as he pleases. And the reason this precedent isn’t meaningful is because the vast majority of players would never make this choice, even with some kind of buyout settlement. I don’t think Meche’s example is going to lead to a bunch of players turning down free money.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Especially with him leaving the game and all

All of the sudden he will have no dealings with the union and probably none with his agent as well.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Doesn't he get a pension?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Didnt Albert Belle walk away from $$ too?

due to his hip injury?

Or Mo Vaughn?

I don’t think this is a precedent making case, I’m 99% sure it has happened before.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jan 18, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmm, I guess so

according to BR…that doesn’t make much sense…was he just put on the 60 day DL for 3 years? What a dick if that’s what happened

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jan 18, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

why does that make him a dick?

he signed the contract. he was too hurt to play. he got paid what he deserved.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

One could argue that one can take the money one is legally entitled to and still be a dick for taking it.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

well....albert belle was clearly a dick....

but IMO, not for those reasons….more of the throwing baseballs at people in the stands…and running down trick or treaters with his car, etc

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm too tired to type it up tonight

But it’s been interesting seeing some of the moral sides of the arguments about this. I’m going to have to give it a go tomorrow morning as I think it’s fascinating.

(Kindof makes one lose some faith in humanity, tho)

by sterlingice on Jan 18, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

well, its not a legal precedent, but it certainly could be a media one

if i was a player, I wouldn’t want my owner or gm or local media guys comparing me to St. Gil Meche if I was in a similar situation.

Look, I know what the contract says, I just think that Johnny needs to look hard in the mirror and think about doing the right thing.

by Freneau on Jan 18, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess the reason I doubt that kind of thing happening is that it didn’t happen after any of the other times a player called it quits and walked away from money. That media narrative never developed.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

But they've said that for years.

Hell WE were saying it last year about Meche…we just didn’t have any reference point of someone that ACTUALLY did it.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jan 18, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought Belle got an insurance settlement

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm almost positive that he got the balance of the deal.

For years Oriole fans had the date that the Belle contract leaves the books on their calendars.

The prophecy has been fulfilled.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 18, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the leverage comes with the seemingly real possibility of a comeback

its not legal or contractual leverage, but merely one that comes from the opinion of your peers in an industry. So I guess that isn’t really leverage, per se, just the emotional pressure of your peers.

Meche is, what, 32? Is he really just going to ride off into the sunset and become an insurance salesman somewhere in the sunbelt? I dunno… maybe he is. I know nothing about dude. Riding off into the sunset with a finger raised to his agent isn’t going to make people happy.

Then again, maybe this will help his comeback in two years. He’ll be beloved by owners. Complicated situation.

by Freneau on Jan 18, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the fact that he's made $42M

just form the Royals over the last 4 years means he wont have to become a insurance salesman.

Unless he wants to sell insurance in Tahiti, on the side.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jan 18, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Do you really think other players are hearing about this today and having negative feelings towards Meche? I don’t think they care. He wants to retire, so he’s retiring. If he chooses to leave money on the table, so be it. It won’t make it any more difficult for them to cash their checks when they are injured and not playing.

And yeah, I think he can retire comfortably now without becoming an insurance salesman. But if he wanted to come back, I don’t think he’d get the stink eye from other players.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that 99% of the players are oblivious

and probably care more about their workout for the day and the NFL playoffs. all of that granted.

but that being said, these guys are professionals and key players in a complicated, multi billion dollar industry. they eventually hear things from multiple points of view.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying he’ll become a pariah or anything. I just think that the scenario is a little more complicated.

by Freneau on Jan 18, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps so

But you were saying that you don’t think Meche is just walking away from all of the money, because that doesn’t happen because of the pressure from agent, union, etc. But doesn’t the union and other players only get to avoid this bad precedent if it comes out publicly that Meche is still going to get millions for 2011? And it seems like we agree that such information, even if it exists, will likely never come out. So it appears that whatever pressure has come from the union (or whatever Meche might fear happening) has been essentially disregarded by Meche because the precedent is out there now (even if he did get a multi-million dollar buyout).

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

yea, pretty much

unless you want to make the case that there’s an open secret/insider knowledge situation, where people in the game know Meche still got a few million, or more, but don’t talk about

nevertheless, that still allows for 90% of the negatives I was talking about in terms of perception

====

with the insurance salesman comment… I know Gil doesn’t need the money (though who knows what his fiances are, he’s paid a ton of taxes and is recently divorced). i meant it more as a “well what is he going to do?” comment

if there s a small part of him that thinks he might comeback some day, he probably wouldn’t want to rock the boat too much on his way out

/maybe i’m just too negative

by Freneau on Jan 18, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

with 10 years experience....

the baseball pension alone is enough money to live a decent life…probably not the style he’s accustomed to, but one that most people would be envious of

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Baloney. If it's more than 100k per year...it's more

than enough to live a decent life.

78 percent of americans earn less than 35k per year.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 7:29 PM EST up reply actions  

‘pension alone is enough money to live a decent life’…you’re dollar number was 100k…i didnt say that…it might be a little high.

‘probably not the style he’s accustomed to’…look at his house…he’s not living in this if his only money is his pension…his is the house to the right of the unfinished one

‘one that most would be envious of’ you made that point for me with your 78% living under 35k

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't know what point you think you're

making there. You must be a young kid in his 20’s who’s never been in the real estate market in KC.

His house is about 1M bucks tops. It looks a lot like my house and mine is in a better neighborhood, Leawood, and was 495K. That buys a ton of house in KC.

Meche needs no pension to maintain his house for the rest of his life. He could by one just like it every year for the next 30 years, and never run out of cash, even with no pension.

Plus buy 5 new cars every year, and pay all the insurance premiums a family could every use.

The fact that you think he needs a pension to maintain his lifestyle just shows what an financial idiot you are.

The interest on his 42M per year gives him all he needs to live on and maintain his house and cars and put his kids through college without ever even touching the principal.

Child please.

Learn something before you become a teacher.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

So you're calling him out for being a "young kid",

you’ve been a Royals fan for 50 years, AND you just used “child please”?

That’s an epic comment.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Jan 19, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Is that all you got?

Go get a real Warden.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Man, you need to calm down

You’re getting out of control here. As a fellow Royals fan, I understand your frustration. But don’t take it out on this site and its posters. Feel free to state your opinions, but it seems like you’re lashing out wildly.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

the national is nicer than just about anywhere in Leawood

other than Hallbrook.

i said he could live off of his pension alone very well, just not with his current lifestyle….which includes living in that house.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem with living in Parkville

is that it’s in Parkville.

SKC is where it’s at.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Do dollars spend differently there?

The only way they do is you buy less for the same fucking dollar.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Jan 20, 2011 12:56 AM EST up reply actions  

dont question....

clearly leawood is the only nice place to live in KC

my parents almost moved there when i was 10…thank god they didnt…i hate johnson county

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 20, 2011 1:03 AM EST up reply actions  

You just don't understand, that he

doesn’t need his pension at all to live his current lifestyle and in THAT house.

The interest on his bank accounts provides him with about 500k per year income, which pays for everything he could ever need, including mowing the yard and paying his utility bills and homeowners insurance, and cars and premiums and food and colledge tuitions, and anything else he wants without every drawing on his principal.

Don’t know why this is so hard to get through your thick skull.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Even if he became a crackhead...

He would never have any financial issues.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Athletes go thru their money all the time

Divorce, Agent, bad investment. He shouldn’t need his pension but we also don’t know how he likes to spend his money. Maybe he has a house in Seattle, Louisiana, etc etc. We don’t know

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 20, 2011 12:12 AM EST up reply actions  

i get that he doesnt need the pension

the whole conversation started with an IF his wife took a ton of his money, IF for some reason he was broke…

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know about the housing situation,

but for golf courses over that way, I prefer Shadow Glen. That is one awesome course.

by AxDxMx on Jan 19, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

We're all dreaming of the day you make 40.

lol.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

unless you want to make the case that there’s an open secret/insider knowledge situation, where people in the game know Meche still got a few million, or more, but don’t talk about

But then the media narrative that they are worried about would still never develop. And isn’t that what they would be worried about with regard to this precedent?

if there s a small part of him that thinks he might comeback some day, he probably wouldn’t want to rock the boat too much on his way out

Perhaps. But I think if he’s retiring, he’s not thinking too much about planning for a comeback. And I may be way off because I don’t know the culture inside MLB, but I don’t think he’d have much of anything to worry about if he did come back. I don’t think other players would care about how he retired.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Why would their feelings be negative?

Are they so sure he would have pitched well? He could easily have been a bullpen disaster, which would lead to the other players resenting the fact that he insisted on holding on when he would have done better to the team by walking away.

Now there’s another spot for the youth movement, $12M more to spend now or in the future, and a pretty classy good-bye statement.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Jan 18, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I would expect there's an insurance company on the hook for some of this...

…I really have no idea how those policies are structured, and what events can trigger coverage… but I would be awful surprised if the two sides involved didn’t do everything in their power to stay within the coverage provisions.

by kcemigre on Jan 18, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I dont' know if there is anything to this

But I heard several years ago that there wasn’t an insurance company around anymore that would sell insurance on a MLB contract longer than three years. The risk was just too high.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

If someone will sell it

While some insurers will cover a three-year contract, they won’t cover each and every three-year contract. And high salary three-year contracts to pitchers are quite risky. The last three years of Meche’s contract were something like 3/36. I really kind of doubt anyone would insure that contract.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh they'll sell you a policy, you just won't like the terms or price.

5/55 insured? Give me $20M premium, and I’ll pay you $4M every time he goes on the 60 day DL (once a season), and an additional $3M if he misses an entire year.

by AxDxMx on Jan 18, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Or buy a policy once every year...

…not so different fromthe way many health insurance policies work.

Of course, the premium on a Gil Meche contract should have shot up pretty steeply a couple of years ago…

by kcemigre on Jan 18, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

insurance companies dont do insurance policies on long term contracts for pitchers...

and not all that many long term contracts in general. NYRoyal and I argued about this a couple years ago and i emailed back and forth with Will Carroll a couple times and thats what I got out of him.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

We argued about insurance policies on MLB contracts? Are you sure?

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

im pretty sure it was you....

it was a loooooooooong time ago….i’ll see if i can dig up the email at least…it might have been on my school email though and i dont even know how to access that anymore

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I searched for “nyroyal” and “insurance” and the only comments I could find that actually dealt with contract insurance were a couple of posts from 2008 where I was discussing how difficult it was to get insurance on a MLB contract longer than three years.

Back in the late 90’s and early 00’s, you’d see fans argue that a given long-term contract wasn’t really risky for a MLB team because it was insured. I don’t know how true that ever was, but eventually it became clear that the contracts that actually looked risky, really were risky because no company would insure them. Thankfully fans don’t try to make that argument anymore.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I am shocked and apalled that companies won't insure this,

yet until recently they took the mortgage loan of someone that couldn’t prove they made any money last year.

by AxDxMx on Jan 18, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Apparently you can’t bundle bad MLB contract insurance policies and sell them like stocks until the market explodes.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, insurance is risk management. That's all it is.

The level of risk is assessed and built into the premium paid and the policy limits. It could be that the end result is a premium no one wants to pay, but I don’t believe there is any risk out there that insurers are categorically unwilling to cover.

by kcemigre on Jan 18, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I think I made a comment about it once

but I don’t remember an argument ensuing.

My new blog: Those Other Guys. Critiques welcome.

by jonfmorse on Jan 19, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions  

He's not returning anything. He will never get paid the 12M for the final year because

he retired and will not be playing.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 18, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Currently Gil is hunting down Trey Hillman in hopes of stealing 12M from him.

Hope Trey sold plenty of albums in Japan

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 12:58 PM EST reply actions  

Nope

commando

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that can be done

Just might have to enter your birthdate before being able to view Episode 2.

by Tito42 on Jan 18, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions  

yikes!

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Jan 19, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Payroll update

$35.49M

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 1:01 PM EST reply actions  

Just posted on that!

Wow Glass is going to make a killing this year!

by Raiderhater1 on Jan 18, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe

A job in the organization. Part of the reason DM signed him was that he was impressed with Meche as a person.

by BlueEyes_Austin on Jan 18, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

he's never said a negative word about being abused....

in fact, he always wanted to stay in the game. He refused surgery so that he could try to earn some of his contract this year….that shows respect for the organization….

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, analysts care a lot about pitch counts. I really don’t think pitchers care about it. Unless they are hurt, I think they want to stay in the game. I don’t think Meche feels bad about having to throw 120+ or 130+ pitches.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

i wonder if his shoulder problems were fucking with his golf game this offseason

he lives a couple doors down from a friend of mine on the national…he supposedly lived on the golf course

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, I fully believe that his retirement was precipitated by his shoulder feeling worse. I think he knows that he wouldn’t be able to pitch effectively or without a lot of pain in 2011, regardless of role. I think he’ll probably be having surgery within the month, probably paid for by the Royals.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I would be ok with that

as long as Nick Schwartz wasn’t doing the cutting

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Jan 18, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

BTW, I hadn't seen this

From Meche’s statement:

I came into this game as a starting pitcher and unfortunately my health, more accurately, my shoulder, has deteriorated to the point where surgery would be the only option

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

He really hates surgery

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

OR DEATH!

The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 18, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

He probably just has a lot of pride. Kudos to him.

by I_Bleed_Red. on Jan 18, 2011 8:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Dammit, Jim!

He’s a trainer, not a doctor!

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Jan 18, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

X

Dr. Ausgiano schools me in the classroom and on the field of battle

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jan 18, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

That's Marlins money!

Doesn’t Moore have to sign Millwood and a veteran catcher now just to make the union happy?

It's all ball bearings these days!

by CentralChamps20?? on Jan 18, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

20 Million would go a long way towards making

the Royals a major player in Latin America, maybe even open a Dominican Academy the Rockies invested there in the early 2000’s and have Ubaldo, Chachin, and Wlin Rosario to show for it.

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Jan 18, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

just think of the value the Dodgers have pulled from their latin investments

or the Marlins for that matter

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Jan 18, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

You could build some pretty nice teams by just looking at DR or Venezualan players

DR C Carlos Santana 1B Pujols(Robinson Cano if you want to be technical about Pujols being drafted, but he was born and raised there) 2B Hanley, SS Jose Reyes 3B Adrian Beltre LF Alfonso Soriano CF Carlos Gomez/Felix Pie RF Jose Bautista DH Ortiz
Bench Rafeal Furcal, Aramis Ramirez, Vlad, Manny, Starlin Castro, Wilin Rosario

SP Felix Rodriguez SP Ubaldo Jimenez SP Fransisco Liriano SP Johnny Cueto SP Edison Volquez
 Bullpen Fausto Carmona, Octavio Dotel, Rafael Soriano, Neftali Feliz, Ramon Ramirez, Fransisco Cordero, Jose Valverde

That team would stink at D and would need some LH bullpen help but they would crush the ball, it is really kind of amazing the amount of pitching the Royals have amassed without any major Latin contribution

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Jan 19, 2011 12:49 AM EST up reply actions  

thats a pretty fucking good defense....

pujols is awesome, hanley surely would be pretty good at 2nd (he’s become much better at SS if i recall), reyes is fine, beltre is historically good, soriano…well, he’s soriano….gomez is good

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 12:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Beltre could be eased out by Cano at 3b

Gomez is good but I doubt his bat would stay in the lineup the problem would be finding OF innings for manny and Vlad I guess you could make Polanco or Carlos Guillen play some OF in the final bench spot

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Jan 19, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

...with a whimper.

Too bad. I guess we’ll always have the memories of those two blissful years when we thought Dayton understood how to value players who can legally drink in the U.S.

I guess it finally just hurt too much. Gil does the Royals one more solid by leaving $12 million on the table. I wish him well.

Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
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by Matt Klaassen on Jan 18, 2011 1:03 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Carl Pavano's Agent just jumped for joy !

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 1:04 PM EST reply actions  

Pavano was in the process of signing his name when his agent saw this pop up on his iPhone

And his agent tackled him before he could finish the “o” in his name.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I will kick DM in the ding ding if he signs PavaNO to a multiyear contract.

by BlueEyes_Austin on Jan 18, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Butler

Butler extension with buyout of three FA years PLEASE!!!!!

by BlueEyes_Austin on Jan 18, 2011 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

He's likely trade bait though.....

Maybe the Yankees will have another money seizure and give us Montero and some other highly rated prospect so he can play there 1/2 a season and generate 3 WAR.

by Cap Midnight on Jan 18, 2011 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I heard he stopped throwing his slider

All jokes aside, I feel bad for him with his injury. It’ll be interesting to see how his contract is settled though. Either way, I wish him the best going forward.

for when I'm too lazy to come here, http://twitter.com/AtTheWall

by AtTheWall on Jan 18, 2011 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

Crazy

Classy move by Meche. I wish him the best an I hope that he can get his shoulder fixed up.

I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.
-- Source Unknown

by royaldaddy on Jan 18, 2011 1:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions   1 recs

That was my thinking.

I hope he can become pain free

I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.
-- Source Unknown

by royaldaddy on Jan 18, 2011 1:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah, he may be able to get by for the next decade or so,

but that shoulder will probably need surgery eventually. I would also assume that the earlier it’s done the better it will heal long-term.

by BrRoyal on Jan 18, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I will always remember Opening Day 2007

And the standing ovation Gil got that day. He did hold himself with class whatever that’s worth. Despite being massively overpaid and being hurt a lot, I will remember him well.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2011 1:09 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

He wasn’t massively overpaid, actually.

by BlueEyes_Austin on Jan 18, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

wow

assuming he doesn’t still make the 12 mil….this is a pretty silly financial move on Gil’s part.

Chiefs Might

by chicks_love_chiefs on Jan 18, 2011 1:10 PM EST reply actions  

He might get something

He retires, he’s not a player, the Royals can slip him $3m for his trouble and no one will ever know, it’s just an incidental expense on the secret balance sheet, not on the payroll.

/cynic

In any case, he’s made over $50m, I’m sure he’ll survive. Good luck to him with whatever he does.

by kcbottom9th on Jan 18, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Given that he should have had surgery last year

this does make some sense

he was going to miss a year anyway

the royals and meche can have some kind of under the table agreement, Meche can disapeer and rehab, and return to baseball in 2012

by Freneau on Jan 18, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow...Trey really DID end his career.

"We had opportunities when we smoked balls," manager Ned Yost said.

by Diggity Dawg on Jan 18, 2011 1:10 PM EST reply actions  

Moore really needs to go crazy with overslots in the draft and buying up every good L.A. free agent

And I really think the overall savings this year on the MLB payroll will make it easier for Moore to get the Glass’s to increase the MLB payroll over 70 and eventually over 80 in the next few years.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 1:11 PM EST reply actions  

Always liked Meche

But this elevates him substantially in my eyes. That’s a pretty big sacrifice to make for the team. I wish him the best

"I think a tactical error might have been committed by the manager of the Royals"

by KSinDC on Jan 18, 2011 1:21 PM EST reply actions  

Gil is my most favoritest player ever

Seriously…if this is true, and his attitude towards it is genuine, think about what he has done the last 6 months…

Last season, he forgoes surgery, much to the chagrin of most everybody, to try to “earn” his contract by pitching in relief through (what I can only assume was) considerable pain on a team that was fighting it out for 4th place. This didn’t earn any respect from the majority, just a bunch of ‘grit’ jokes

And now, he does the honorable thing and realizes that he CAN’T do enough to contribute up to his salary, and simply walks away. He didn’t Jaret Wright, or Pavano or Kevin Brown himself to death. He didn’t come out in ST, throw for 2 weeks and come o the conclusion that he couldn’t do it to the ‘earn’ his $12M by doing nothing even though he ‘tried’.

This is seriously the coolest thing I’ve ever seen a ball player do. I hope he stays w/ the org in some capacity.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jan 18, 2011 1:22 PM EST reply actions  

While I agree with everything said above.

The organization (Trey Hillman) ruined his arm, and as such, they probably should pay him the $12M they owe him. Maybe in a series of million dollar payments over the next 12 years?

by AxDxMx on Jan 18, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I know what you are trying to say

But I don’t agree with it.

Yes, Gil was used horribly wrong, but I doubt there was ever one time when he, as a player said, “I’m done Trey, take me out.” only to have Trey leave him in.

I don’t think you can completely absolve the player from his desire to be used like a rented mule. Yes, ultimately, Trey or GMDM should have intervened, but their lack of intervention is not the sole cause.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jan 18, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

No way

The Royals incurred risk when they signed the contract. Meche incurred risk as well. Part of it was injury risk, for both sides. Was that injury due to his usage? It probably played a role, but we of course don’t really know. Regardless, even if we knew for sure it was because he was overused, that’s a risk Meche signed up for. And if he chooses to retire, he doesn’t get his remaining salary. That is, unless he negotiates a mutually agreeable buyout settlement.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Gil Meche is old school.

He couldn’t live up to the contract he signed, so he took an honorable way out that put the team first. I respect that decision and wonder how much money he is walking away from (buyout?).

So ends the Epic Career of Gil Meche.

by AxDxMx on Jan 18, 2011 1:25 PM EST reply actions  

Well said

It’s what I liked about Meche the most. Well, that and the fact that he shaved John Buck.

www.marklaflamme.com/books

by LaFLamme on Jan 18, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

The real reason he retired

Was to do more Hollywood publicity for the recently released biopic of his life.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2011 1:29 PM EST reply actions  

LOL

How long have you been waiting to drop that one on us?

by Tito42 on Jan 18, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

FIVE YEARS!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Starring:

Gil Meche
Jason Kendall &
Willie Bloomquist.

Their next film will be a remake of the epic Cool Runnings.

The prophecy has been fulfilled.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 18, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

“Jason, it’s time we had a long talk about your future and what would really make you happy.”

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

There are a couple of gems in this pretty short article.
His Baseball Reference similarity scores are a who’s who of “hey, I sort of remember that guy.” Jason Marquis. Cal Eldred. Melido Perez. Andy Hawkins. It’s like finding a baseball card collection from the mid 90s, with all the cards of value already sold off.

by RoyalCreole on Jan 18, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, I never saw that coming.

So now is he has time to rehab the shoulder.

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on Jan 18, 2011 1:50 PM EST reply actions  

Meche's retirement is an honorable final deed by a class act

Hopefully this last act of retiring and saving the Royals $12MM will mitigate him receiving the Mike Sweeney treatment—we tend to forget that Sweeney clobbered MLB pitching between 1999-2005 (even in 2003/2004, when he was missing 40 or so games per season, he was putting up good triple slash lines). Hopefully people won’t forget that for 2 1/2 years, Meche terrorized AL hitting. Until midway through 2009, he was worth every penny we were paying him, and then some.

by DarthYoshi on Jan 18, 2011 1:57 PM EST reply actions  

My favorite comment

on the Meche mediocrity, a snippet from his farewell speech:

“Today…I consider myself…a man…on the face…of the Earth.”

www.marklaflamme.com/books

by LaFLamme on Jan 18, 2011 1:59 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Sounds like to earn the $12M, Meche had to either pitch through pain and risk further injury or have surgery. I’m sure he already has more money than he could ever spend, so maybe leaving the money on the table was his best option. Wouldn’t be surprised if the Royals did kick in some money as a buyout tho.

by kcdc1 on Jan 18, 2011 1:59 PM EST reply actions  

This.

Just because you’re injured doesn’t mean you can shrug your shoulders, refuse to play, and go home. You’re still an employee of the team, and you still have to take whatever steps they ask of you in order to get better. (Same thing applies with a workman’s comp case; if you refuse to follow medical advice, not only can they cut you off, but they no longer have to hold your position.)

The way I’m reading this, then, is that Meche doesn’t want to do what the team wants him to do. A twat would fight about it and try to keep his money; Gil’s exhibiting some ethical backbone and acknowledging that in order to get what HE wants (no forced surgery/extended rehab/etc.), he’s got to give up the money.

My new blog: Those Other Guys. Critiques welcome.

by jonfmorse on Jan 19, 2011 12:28 AM EST up reply actions  

No Banny, no Xaq,

and no Gil.

I guess I can toss this link into the bit bucket:

The Royals are making similar waves, riding a pitching rotation that features three solid starters: Gil Meche, Brian Bannister and Zack Greinke, and a line-up that includes a pair of promising young hitters in Alex Gordon and Billy Butler. Could this be the season that this once proud franchise returns to prominence?

by 2X2L on Jan 18, 2011 2:07 PM EST reply actions  

Hope so

Don’t think Mellinger would really know for sure though.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

No Millwood No Millwood No Millwood (fingers crossed)

by Matt Hays on Jan 18, 2011 2:15 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

amen

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Jan 18, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

What

Will I do with my Meche T-shirt?

www.marklaflamme.com/books

by LaFLamme on Jan 18, 2011 2:23 PM EST reply actions  

Considering Meche wasn't going to be in the rotation I doubt KC goes after a starter (unless Pavano will go for the 3rd yr)

but this payroll is going to be Marlins low so Glass better breakout his 2008 amateur checkbook.

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 2:23 PM EST reply actions  

one good thing...

perhaps Moore can convince ownership to remember some of this saved money down the road

it almost never works like that, but given that Moore has gone ALL IN publicly with plan 2012, who knows

by Freneau on Jan 18, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually, I think it will work something like that

Glass has been willing to spend the vast majority of revenues on the team. And revenues haven’t been going down. And yet Moore planned for the MLB payroll to drop significantly for 2011. Part of that was probably due to decreased attendance, but I don’t think that accounts for most of it. I think when discussing budget with the Glass’s Moore said that he’d like to spend less in 2011 so that he could spend more in 2012 and/or 13 when the prospects were coming up and when FA additions could really do the most good. So I think spending less in one year actually will make it easier for Moore to get the Glass’s to spend more the next year(s).

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Forbes put out a good list this morning that showed the Royals have the 2nd

lowest committed to payroll over the next 5 years. Padres were at 20% Royals at 23%, that was prior to Meche retiring so that might have moved KC ahead

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

we're Number 1!!!!!!!

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Jan 18, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I seriously think

that if Pujols doesn’t get a deal done with the Cardinals by free agency day next year, the Royals are going to lock and load.

My new blog: Those Other Guys. Critiques welcome.

by jonfmorse on Jan 19, 2011 12:29 AM EST up reply actions  

thatd be insane....

i’d love it…but i dont think it’d be good for the franchise long term

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 12:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I would love it as well.

And I don’t think it would be quite that insane. Our future payrolls look mighty low til arb starts to kick in on our prospects in 2015-2016. A 7 year $245M deal for Pujols adds $35M a year to payroll. The only problem is that we would likely be overpaying for his decline years. But if ever a signing would sell tickets, this would be it.

by AxDxMx on Jan 19, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

merchandising is split between all 30 teams

us selling pujols jerseys doesnt benefit us anymore than the cubs selling pujols jerseys

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 20, 2011 12:26 AM EST up reply actions  

id prefer they spend this extra money on amateur signings

lets go out and get this years sano or sanchez….spend like crazy in the draft…convince starling to convince everyone that he’s going to nebraska and pick him in the 2nd round, etc

this is the perfect opportunity to build that next ‘wave’

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

And I think there will be even more pressure on him from fans and MLB to spend significantly on the MLB payroll in 2012.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

BREAKING NEWS

White Sox claim Phil Humber

This is a dark day in Royaldom

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 2:24 PM EST reply actions  

you had me at
4. Bigger HD video board

The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 18, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Definitely

#6. And spring for a real anti-virus program this time.

www.marklaflamme.com/books

by LaFLamme on Jan 18, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

10. I thought they could pay Scott to go away

not keep him on longer

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

12. Bigger fireworks displays after the 34 HR’s the Royals will hit @ the K this season as a team.
13. Buy the best damn porta-potties $$ can buy for the outfield experience during the All Star game.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jan 18, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Is that the first Smiths reference on RR?

by Sweet Thang on Jan 18, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Respect due

I knew he was an Oscar Wilde fan but musically I would have pegged more as a Joy Division guy

by Sweet Thang on Jan 18, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Transmission would be a good bullpen walk in song

as would Shadowplay…..but we all know Tejada oddly prefers Interpol and Crystal Stilts to Joy Division

by Nighthawk at the Diner on Jan 19, 2011 8:04 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s right…I remember he was pretty torn up when Carlos left. There was that week after that where he was obsessing on Iggy Pop’s “The Idiot” and would only get out of bed to do off-day morning cardio

by Sweet Thang on Jan 19, 2011 9:00 AM EST up reply actions  

It would be a better world if more people obessessed over The Idiot

“Baby” is an underrated classic….and half the kids have no idea that Iggy wrote China Girl. Including sweater vest model Chris Getz.

by Nighthawk at the Diner on Jan 19, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions  

3. Gilberto Mechriguez

Come on down. Maybe Mechriguez could win the Springfield Movie Festival after all.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 7:13 PM EST up reply actions  

This from ESPN

In December 2006, Gil Meche signed a 5-year, $55 million contract with the Royals. Due largely to injuries, the 32-year-old Meche is now retiring after 4 years of that contract, which was largely ridiculed at the time. But Meche began his Kansas City career with a bang (dominating the Red Sox on Opening Day), and he was an above average pitcher for the 1st half of his deal, providing solid value with an ERA under 4. Everything changed on June 16, 2009, when he threw a career-high 132 pitches in shutting out Arizona. He gave up 13 runs in his next 2 starts, then was inexplicably left in by the now-departed Trey Hillman to throw 121 pitches and 114 pitches in the 2 following starts. Meche was never the same.

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 2:26 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

That can't be right

It implies Trey Hillman wasn’t a good manager. Is somebody calling ESPN to demand a correction or should I do it?

www.marklaflamme.com/books

by LaFLamme on Jan 18, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

That clinches it

Hillman’s got the job in Cincinnati whenever they decide they’re done with Baker.

by 2X2L on Jan 18, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

and people say they hate espn.....

they pretty much pegged this one

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

aw

nobody ever remembered all the other times that Meche threw lots of pitches while in pain. The 121 pitch game was even more insane because Meche was throwing off of flat ground to prepare for that game

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by BHWick on Jan 18, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

*said

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Jan 18, 2011 2:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I'd love to hear someone

Have more than idle speculation that it had any effect at all.

by kcbottom9th on Jan 18, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I doubt throwing 120 and 130 pitches in games had any effect whatsoever.

Doesn’t mean it was “the” reason or the only reason…..but it clearly played a role.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Jan 18, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Debating this is pretty pointless, but I will say that we really have no idea if it played a 0.1% role or a 99.1% role or somewhere in between. I think most will agree that it was a stupid way to use him, but there has never been prove a 1-to-1 correlation between certain pitch counts and injury. It is risky, but when a pitcher is arguably overused and eventually gets injured, we don’t know that one caused the other, merely because one thing happened after another thing.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Obviously you can never say exactly what percentage it played...but there's no way to deny that it played SOME percentage.

Even if it was only 1%, it was still stupid. The more pitches you throw..the more tired your muscles in your arm get…the higher the chance for injury. It’s quite simple. Obviously one can never specify exactly the role it played…but it plays a role.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Jan 18, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Greinke

If the Royals had known that Meche was going to suddenly retire do you think that it would have affected their handling of Greinke any? Would they still have traded him seeing that he requested it? Or do you think that they have have tried to spend the money saved from Meche elsewhere and see if they could talk Greinke into holding on a little longer?

I think Greinke would still have wanted to leave but was just curious to see what others thought.

by Rhody Royals on Jan 18, 2011 2:53 PM EST reply actions  

No, yes, no. I think the proverbial writing was on the wall and Greinke was gone regardless, short of the Pujols signing being moved up to winter 2010.

by Tito42 on Jan 18, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, Greinke wanted out now and didn't want to wait for prospects to arrive and develop

And I don’t think anything that could be done with $12M would have changed his mind.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

agree

Again, just curious as I hated to see the Royals have to part with Greinke.

by Rhody Royals on Jan 18, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

No, Greinke was miserable here and would have

destroyed any trade value he had soon after his public announcement. However, the Royals might have bid more aggressively for some other free agent this offseason if they’d known sooner. Just think, we could have had Carl Pavanooooooooooooooooo by now……

by Cap Midnight on Jan 18, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Royals.com has nothing about this retirement on the front page other

than the blurb in the News and Notes. The Hos and Moose Top Story though. 2012 whoop whoop

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 3:06 PM EST reply actions  

Kevin Kietzman is saying that he turned his back on the Royals for the last 2 years of this deal

I checked Facebook and this doesn’t seem like what they are thinking. Idiotic

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 3:14 PM EST reply actions  

I was listening too

Jeez he’s an idiot.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Refused surgery and get paid 20+ M the last two years

1.9M per victory. Breaking out the important stats KK

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't agree with Keitzman

At all.

But you can have mild amusement with that kind of junk stat.

Over the last two years he earned $24m

136 K’s at $176,470 each
190 innings at $126,315 each ($42,105 per out)
862 BF at the bargain price of $27,842 each

It has nothing to do with Meche, but it perspectives MLB salaries. A one pitch out and he earns what a lot of people would call a good annual salary.

by kcbottom9th on Jan 18, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

how much is Keitzman getting paid for listener?

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by BHWick on Jan 18, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Take his salary and divide by 1.

I’m pretty sure he’s the only one that listens to himself.

by AxDxMx on Jan 18, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I listen.

He’s a lot better than listening to Nick Wright. That guy says some stupid stuff. But mostly, his voice angers me.

by hawkinscm87 on Jan 18, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

KK is worth listening to

for non-baseball stuff, and also for the fact that Liebo(sp?) knows his stuff.

by hawkinscm87 on Jan 18, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

KK does his job spews out inflammatory stuff to get ratings

but don’t call Gil a thief and liar prior to the teleconference and then back down on the conference call by sounding like a puppy dog.

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

he's an awful homer when it comes to college sports....

and i dont have much interest in the NFL…so kietzman is useless to me

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

True Dat

KK’s peculiar brand of Husker hatred (I know, I know, everyone hates NU), right wing bidness boosterism (trivia contests based on commercials running on the station? Really?), underlined by his overall anti-intellectual vibe, really puts my dick in the dirt. At least Soren attempts to keep abreast of the various new ways of analyzing and evaluating various sports….KK is only good for winding up Jack Harry.

by Nighthawk at the Diner on Jan 18, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

i especially enjoy his extreme moralizing....

when he’s the dude who got pulled over getting blown by one of his interns while he was married

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

the bitch of it all is that even tho he drives me crazy

I find myself listening on the drive home damn near every day…..I guess it beats moralizing by NPR. I’m not talking This American Life, lets make that clear. That show kicks much ass. NPR news however, overrated IMHO.

by Nighthawk at the Diner on Jan 18, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea

the intern was hot (if you like freckly redheads as much as I do)…it’s his current wife.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jan 19, 2011 6:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I used to despise Nick Wright

But I probably listen to him a little more than KK @ this point…

When Nick is a jackass to the idiot callers, he is doing it to make the rest of his listeners get a chuckle

When KK is a jackass, he is doing it out of sheer arrogance.

I prefer the former.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jan 18, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Meche should have had surgery 2 years ago in Spring Training

Then we might not have had to bring back Chen/Sign Francis/Give Davies $ 3.2 million this year

Jamie freakin Wright, nuff said.

by Gantz9 on Jan 18, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Gil will first appear on the HOF ballot in 2016

Other first timers on the ballot with him:

Ken Griffey Jr.
Jim Edmonds
Mike Lowell
Garret Anderson
Pedro Feliz
Mike Sweeney
Jaime Moyer
Jeff Suppan
Billy Wagner
Trevor Hoffman
Kris Benson

Possibly:
Manny Ramirez
Jason Giambi
Matt Stairs
Andy Pettitte
Mike Hampton

What are his chances of getting into Cooperstown? I would say not good.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2011 3:44 PM EST reply actions  

Will he even make the ballot?

He only just scrapes over the 10 year limit, had only 2 full years with an ERA under 4. 84-83 record. His best career achievement 8th in AL K’s in 2008…

I don’t pay much attention, how strict are the screening committee?

by kcbottom9th on Jan 18, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

He probably wouldn't

But Lenny Harris was on the ballot this year.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Out of that list

Griffey would be the only one that I’d vote for. Maybe Hoffman, but I don’t think of him as a 1st ballot HOFer.

Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau

by aHorseWithNoName on Jan 18, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Griffey should be over 90%.

I wish injuries had not robbed him of his time in Cincy.

by AxDxMx on Jan 18, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Moyer stopped pitching?

When?

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Jan 18, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Meche earned 51.8+ Million dollars not including his signing bonus

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 3:57 PM EST reply actions  

Compiled the 3rd highest WAR according to Baseball Reference by 1st rd picks the year he was taken

35.8 Eric Chavez OAK
18.4 Mark Kotsay FLA
15.5 Gil 22nd Pick
13.9 Eric Milton NYY
12.6 Jake Westbrook COL

Royals 14th Pick Dee Brown -2.8
Pirates #1 Pick Kris Benson 11.0 WAR

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Does Kris Benson's WAR

include the motivational value of his wife?

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Jan 18, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

wow

that was a shitty draft class

by sfeldkamp on Jan 18, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

that's just the 1st round I don't know how the rest turned out

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess he doesn't think his children's children's children's children need to eat too.

If he just got divorced, it may be a way of sticking it to his ex and not letting her get more of his future income.

by AxDxMx on Jan 18, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m pretty sure agents only take a percentage off of what the player actually gets. It’s not like the agent got 5% of $55M as soon as Meche signed the contract. The agent gets his percentage as Meche gets paid. If Meche doesn’t get paid, the agent has nothing to take 5% of.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Sucks for that dude

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure he's hurting lol

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

he might be...i mean shit....

Jeter’s only making $17 million this year….what an asshole that Cashman is.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't forget that huge change he gets off Gordon

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

why is it so hard to find a fucking client list....

he’s got Ryan Howard, Halladay, Jeter….thats $3 million right there for 2011 alone though

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Works on contingency! No money down!

That’s a typo. Its:

Works on contigency? No! Money down!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

itd be awesome if it was the case though

‘i dont need $10k handbags and to travel all over the world, i just want to golf…fuck her’

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Wowza

I guess Gil must have just started his throwing program after taking the winter off and found his shoulder barking right away, dissolving his hopes that rest would relieve the pain.

by swing and a miss on Jan 18, 2011 5:20 PM EST reply actions  

Kansas City where players walk away from their contracts.

Sincerely,
Jeff King and Gil Meche

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 5:28 PM EST reply actions  

GMDM brought up the Jeff King reference

as not much precedent to this

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I wish Gil the best!

He always seemed to give his best, and for the most part that was alot. From what I know he seems to be a pretty classy guy too. I for one am very glad he put on Royal Blue!

by usethejon on Jan 18, 2011 5:29 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

GMDM states he had insurance on Zack but Gil was not insurable

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 5:40 PM EST reply actions  

He states insurance doesn't pay out very well for insurance on position players because they

have to miss 90 consecutive days. Stated the Sweeney insurance never really paid out what it was worth because he never missed that many day in a row.

KK is useful for this interview

Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com

by kcscoliny on Jan 18, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting

Thanks

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Another way to look at this...

You have the choice to play for the 2011 KC Royals, and earn $12M or you have the choice to not play for the 2011 KC Royals, and earn nothing.

What do you do? What do you do?

Gil Meche made the decision to basically give away $12M in order to NOT have his name associated with the clusterfrack that will be the 2011 Royals,

That is awesome.

BOOM! ROASTED!

by GoBabies!! on Jan 18, 2011 5:59 PM EST reply actions  

Dude - I love mine!

I giggle every time I pass Yuni’s picture in the hallway. It’ll probably be less funny in some of the later months though…

by Gross(est) on Jan 18, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I know

I have a feeling that I’ll spend Chris Getz’s month (I forget which one is his) being depressed/pissed off.

Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau

by aHorseWithNoName on Jan 18, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I nearly bought a very discounted Greinke t-shirt yesterday

Took me a second to say to myself “hey, he’s not on the team anymore!”

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

At the Kansas Sampler off 95th,

they had all kinds of Greinke and DDJ shirts. I just laughed.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Jan 18, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Those shirts serve a purpose.

Where do you think all the premade losing Super Bowl t-shirts go? 3rd world countries!

by AxDxMx on Jan 19, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

The DeJesus Trade

Looks even worse now. I believe that part of the impetus in making the deal so early was to “free” the ballclub from the onerous 6 million DeJesus was going to be paid.

I fully understand Moore couldn’t have anticipated this, but dealing DeJesus that early in the offseason wasn’t necessary. I still think that if he called Billy Beane today, that deal would be on the table.

When you also consider that the rotation sans Mazzaro would work out to be Hoch/Francis/Chen/Davies/SOS, I’m thinking that DeJesus in LF with Gordon in right prevents the 3.5 million paid to Failcouer.

Revisionist history? Absolutely. A somewhat plausible scenario that nets the team DeJesus and loses us Failcouer and Mazzaro? I think so.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 7:11 PM EST reply actions  

ehh...he's still a part of the team that doesnt do anything meaninful for us in the future

mazzarro and marks have a chance to contribute in 2012-2017…that makes sense. its not about saving money. its about maximizing return for the future

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't like who Moore traded DeJesus for, but trading him was definitely the right thing to do, even if he knew Greinke and Meche would be off the books

DeJesus was under contract for only one more season. It is a lost season and getting a couple more wins from him would have been pretty useless. Trading him for something that could help the team for multiple seasons (including possibly contending ones) was the only thing that made sense. They didn’t trade him because they didn’t think they could afford $6M.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Your own payroll obligations

Showed that the team wasn’t going to be able to do anything in the offseason unless someone making a significant amount of money got moved off the major league roster.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

and that wouldve been fine....

b/c the doing something this offseason has been largely negative when it comes to FA signings

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

When did it come down to 2011 has to be a 100 loss year

I know that NY and others have gotten the whole site on this jihad against having a decent team in 2011, but even Jonah Keri has noted that this isn’t a binary equation. You don’t have to jump from 100 losses to 90 wins. It isn’t some right of passage in the “small” market team’s saga. I have no problem in winning a few more games this year in that I don’t think Mazzarro or Marks are even going to be on the team when it is in contention. The holes that both players fill can easily be had in free agency for only a slight uptick in the marginal $/WAR calculation. In addition, if the prospects in the minors are as good as so many hope, it will be even easier to extend the marginal $/WAR calculation upward on short term deals.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

ok....but what benefit is there to winning a couple extra games this year....

and STILL not knowing what we have in mazzarro? He’s young and was a highly touted prospect. He needs a shot…and Moore is rightly giving him that shot

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

We wouldn't have had Mazzaro

Do you really think that he is going to be a big part of this team being in contention? That theory relies on a lot of much better and more touted prospects than him realizing their tools into skills. If that happens, the team is still plenty cheap to go out and get a 5 starter to fill a hole [for a recent example, see the Burrell contract with Tampa].

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Jihad?

I would appreciate if you would try to exaggerate more in your next post. I’d like to see if that’s even rhetorically possible.

Now to the baseball issues. The Royals contending future is based on the prospects. I don’t see a path to the Royals contending before that. I don’t see a way that this offseason could have been re-done to make that happen. Shortly after the World Series, Dayton Moore said the major league payroll was going to be in the low-60’s. That meant that significant upgrades via free agency would be impossible. Who could the Royals have gotten to make 2011 a contending team with that kind of payroll?

Now, given that 2011 was not going to be a contending season, and DDJ had only one season left on his contract, it only made sense to trade him for something which could help the Royals contending future. I think Moore made the trade too early. I think he should have waited until Crawford and Werth were signed and then utilized the scarcity of good OFers on the market to leverage a better trade. I don’t think Mazzaro and and Marks was a good haul for DDJ. But trading him this offseason was the right move.

If the Royals would have kept DDJ, the team would be about 2 wins better (net). What is that worth to the Royals in 2011? And should the Royals have added a bunch of free agents to maybe (but probably not even) get the Royals to 80 wins? Why? Would it make more sense to play some young guys to figure out how good or bad they are before the prospects get here? Then you figure out what you have and what you don’t have so you know what you need to acquire to augment the good prospects.

I would have not signed Cabrera or Francoeur and just gone with guys like Blanco, Dyson and Maier. Figuring out if they are legitimate options to fill any MLB role is worth more than what Melky, Francoeur or any other so-so free agent could give the Royals.

Now, if the payroll were considerably bigger, and they could bring in players that would help the team for 3+ years, then I would have been all for signing such player(s). That doesn’t seem realistic. I don’t think the Royals could afford Lee, Werth or Crawford.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 10:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You really want to bet on Mazzaro and Marks?

I’d much rather see a competent 2011 outfield than continue to hold out hope for Vin. Unless he is a guido, goes by Vinny, and fist pumps his way to the dugout with techno music blaring after a 5 strikeout performance.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 7:15 PM EST reply actions  

It isn't that good of a bet.

Your argument is that me betting ten bucks on the Bears last weekend to cover is worse than betting a 5 team NBA parlay. Unless you have some sort of magical wand to find value in NBA lines, that is functionally useless. Same goes for Mazzarro and Marks. Marks best case is as a reliever contributing relatively little WAR and Mazzarro is what he is going to be. It isn’t likely his stuff is going to jump and it isn’t likely he is going to become some groundball wizard.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

david could have an outrageous career year...say 7 WAR or so....

and this team still sucks….odds are he’s a 3-4 win player though and we’re still a last or 4th place team

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

if vin becomes a good 4-5 starter....

he’s much more valuable than DDJ

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really

Mazzaro’s value is that his WAR/dollar figure should be lower than that of a free agent. If you are able to find 1-2 WAR starters for a couple of million on the free agent market [Francis], then that WAR/dollar figure means absolutely nothing as you still come out ahead with the free agent.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 7:29 PM EST up reply actions  

If he has a 3-4 WAR year

His value at the deadline should be higher than hoping for a league minimum 4/5.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions  

thats what we did this year....

with a full year left on the contract….and marks/mazzarro was the return….and it was a better return than the nats got for a similar player in willingham

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:29 PM EST up reply actions  

When the A's traded for Willingham

His salary was not a known quantity. That would slightly depress the market.

Both players have an injury history, which would depress their market value in the offseason [e.g. concern over keeping a player healthy for a full year rather than 2-3 months].

Both players also ended the year on the disabled list, which would also depress the market some.

When you factor in the draft pick compensation for both DeJesus and Willingham, I’d rather have kept both of them rather than trading them following a season ending injury. You are using one bad deal to justify another bad deal.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

im using it as an example of market value for players like DDJ

but you seem to think that all of the sudden we’re gonna get Julio Teheran or something with DDJ having 4 months less of team control

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Never said that

I’m arguing more for the unknown, that maybe you get a guy who becomes blocked in another org or has a down year and lessens his prospect status. And if you don’t, you take your 2nd round pick when DDJ qualifies as a type B at worst [and I believe could still qualify as a type A with a stellar year].

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

His value at the trade deadline for 2 months of playing time would have been higher than this offseason

…when he was coming off of a very good year? Definitely not. Not even close.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

He was injured from July on

and it was a complete ligament tear in his thumb. While not a wrist injury, you really don’t think his value would have been higher having another good year under his belt showing that the thumb injury hadn’t done anything to his offensive game?

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

health risk doesnt outweigh 4 more months....

and if its that risky for other teams to trade for, then its just as risky for the royals to hold onto.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Yet there is still value

In the type B status that barring him being injured the entire year he would reach on counting stats alone.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

On average

If you are buying into the conceptual framework that Moore and his crew know what they are doing with the amateur budget [see Myers/Lamb/Dwyer/Eibner/Melville/Sample], then the pick would most likely be worth more. Basically, if Moore took a player with that pick and he ever hit the top-100, Wang’s research suggests that he would be worth considerably more.

Also, we’d then have theoretical DeJesus money to spend on the draft that year, assuming that MLB payrolls are somehow linked to the amateur budget]. The fact that those two have no causal link isn’t relevant in part because the Royals have still consistently been willing to pay over slot to sign players.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

thats a possibility....

but assuming that a pick around pick 60 will be a top 100 guy at any point is a big assumption…even for a guy as highly respected as Moore is with regard to the draft

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Not necessarily.

I mean, if you draft a guy in that position that is significantly overslot, it’s fairly likely that at some point he would be top 100 I think. Take a guy like Eibner for example, I’d be willing to bet he’s top 100 at some point in the next 2 years.

by AxDxMx on Jan 18, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

its very risky to pick an overslot type in the supp rounds

b/c he’s got alot more leverage b/c you dont get a comp pick if you dont sign him

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

True.

I was just throwing a counterargument out there.

by AxDxMx on Jan 19, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

About the same

As assuming Mazzarro ever gets the Royals anything over 1 WAR per year.

by ajblobaum on Jan 18, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

he was worth .7 in half of a season in 2009

so my assumption is more likely than yours

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

So how about this with the $12mm

Haven’t read all the posts, so this may be repetative. Let’s think strategically about the $12mm. Isn’t there some way (provided the other team wants to do this) trade Butler, 2 of our young pitchers (probably out of the group of Crow, Agruelles, Duffy) and random bullpen arm to(for example) Stl for the Pujols (someone could work out the trade better than I just threw together), sign him to 5 years at $25 (?) and still keep the bulk of our young talent around for project 2012.
The payroll effect wouldn’t increase our overall much from last year. Sure we could all agree on this being a positive (if it is possible).

Reality is a crutch for people who can’t handle drugs

by where o' where has my underdog gone? on Jan 18, 2011 8:06 PM EST reply actions  

This ain't Baseball Mogul....you can't just throw a bunch of names onto a list and make STL trade Pujols.

There ain’t a shot in holy hell STL is trading Albert Pujols…….not a shot.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Jan 18, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

If they aren't competetive at the break, I would guarantee a trade.

He’s cutting contract negotiations after ST, so might as well trade him, get a nice haul, and take your chances in the offseason with re-signing him.

by AxDxMx on Jan 18, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

this whole pujols situation is a win/win for cards haters like me....

if he signs elsewhere….you talk shit on them

if he signs, they’re crippled financially for the next 8-10 years and they suck…and then i talk shit on them

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I hate to say it....but I agree.

I believe there is a point where, the size of a contract can no longer help a team, but only hurt it in the long run.

I can name a few that have done or will do just that to teams.

Carl Crawford’s latest.
Last two of A-Rod’s.
C.C. Sabathia’s Brewers contract.

and of course,

The 3 most harmful contracts to a baseball team of all time, outside of the Babe signing with the Yankees which harmed the Sox.

Gil Meche
Mike Sweeney
and Jose Guillen’s.

Talk about handcuffing a team for the last 10 years.

Those three were the dumbest Royals moves of all times.

"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~

by TheK-man on Jan 19, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Even if they aren't competitive, I still don't think they'll trade him.....and I think it would take an AWFUL lot to go wrong for them to not be in the NL Central race anyways....

I honestly can’t imagine a scenario where they fall so far out of the race by July that they have to trade Pujols….

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Jan 18, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

only if Pujols gets hurt

in which case he’s not getting traded

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Possibly true, but for the Cards to even CONSIDER trading Pujols at the deadline...they'd have to feel like they have zero chance of signing him to an extension and they'd have to be at least 10 games out...

I just don’t find that even remotely likely.

I think all of this will be a moot point anyway, I think they’ll sign him in the next few weeks….I don’t think they want to deal with the PR hit they’ll take from letting him walk. Besides, he’s one of the few players in the league with whom the “he puts fans in the seats” argument actually has a lot of relevance….

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Jan 18, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

actual attendance records disagree

the cards averaged 40 and 41 k in the two years previous to pujols being there….and significantly less every year until the last year of old busch

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/cardatte.shtml

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but there could be a ton of factors that go into that.

If they just let Pujols walk, I’d be willing to bet there would be a decrease in season ticket sales. Not saying the franchise would go under b/c of it…..but it’d probably hurt them for a short while.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Jan 18, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah....but you cant just make the assumption that he's a bigger draw than any other superstars....

the quality of the team has gone down….as has attendance…even with Pujols there

1999 in a shitty stadium without Pujols had nearly identical attendance to 2010 with Pujols and a new stadium

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 11:22 PM EST up reply actions  

IDK, Pujols is the undisputed best hitter in the game and the clear "face of the franchise" for a franchise that prides itself on being rich in baseball history and home of the "best fans in baseball."

I think Pujols and Jeter would probably be the only two players you could say it for.

..and again, there are a ton of factors that could create attendance figures between those 11 years.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Jan 18, 2011 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I can think of one reason for high attendance...

during the years in question. A certain someone that doesn’t want to talk about the past.
1998 – 70 HR
1999 – 65 HR

by steady d on Jan 19, 2011 12:45 AM EST up reply actions  

2000….2001 when pujols wasnt a known quantity

pujols isnt the reason the stadium is packed…its packed b/c thats what they do in stl and b/c they’re generally a winning team. Pujols was Pujols last year but they werent very good and attendance went down like 6k/game

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 12:48 AM EST up reply actions  

2000

Mac hit 135 HR the previous two seasons, and a similar performance would have him flirting with or passing 600 HR. You don’t think the anticipation of that didn’t boost attendance? Even in only like 90 games or something he hit around 30 homers, so obviously they were star gazing in 2001 as well. And then, those bastards got lucky as in 2001 as Mac made his fair well tour, Pujols became an instant star. Instant. His rookie card was the card to get. He was all over SC. He only had the greatest rookie season ever. They’ve been star gazing in Stl for a while. Attendance was down because Stl was hit hard by the crappy economy.

by steady d on Jan 19, 2011 12:56 AM EST up reply actions  

good teams draw well, stars draw well…its not just pujols…or pujols and jeter like the guy up there speculated.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 1:03 AM EST up reply actions  

The Tampa Bay Rays and Florida Marlins

are pretty good teams

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Jan 19, 2011 1:05 AM EST up reply actions  

bad markets

no history

so i forgot…cities with long and glorious histories also draw well

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 1:06 AM EST up reply actions  

I would argue that teams

that have shown a commitment to winning do well, teams like the Marlins have never proven to their fans that their commitment is to the on field product, or at least not to a consistent product.

The Rays have proven their model is a good one, but do not have the resources to get to the next level(that longoria contract gives them some crazy advantages though)

~ Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too ~

by TomCat009 on Jan 19, 2011 1:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure

But Mac and Pujols aren’t/weren’t stars. Mac saved baseball, or at least that’s the narrative, and Pujols is the best in the game. They’re the faces of baseball, at one time or another. I lived in Columbia during those years, and people would could just to see Mac all the time. The stadium would empty after his last at bat. Pujols has a similar effect on attendance.

by steady d on Jan 19, 2011 1:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Point is

Pujols does have an impact on attendance there. It’s just not showing up in attendance numbers (ie no bump with his arrival), because those lucky a-holes had another “face of baseball” right up until the moment they lucked in to him.

by steady d on Jan 19, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions  

they drew very well before either of those guys showed up....

and then it improved due to having stars and winning.

notice last year, when they werent awesome…attendance dropped by like 6k…pujols was pujols…but people cared much less b/c they werent as good

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 1:12 AM EST up reply actions  

some of that is the economy

Hasn’t housing been horrible there? Jobs as well?

by steady d on Jan 19, 2011 1:14 AM EST up reply actions  

economy's been bad everywhere...

and attendance in baseball as a whole is up, right?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 1:17 AM EST up reply actions  

You continue to not talk about season ticket sales, which is probably what would be most affected.

There are too many factors to even consider when it comes to why attendance is the way it is, but I think if you really think losing a sure-fire icon of the game in his prime from one of the most baseball-rich cities in the nation wouldnt’ have any effect on season ticket sales or attendance at all, I think you’re just being naive.

Again, I’m not saying it alters the history of the franchise for a decade…but I think there would be SOME people who would be pissed and not renew their season ticket sales. How many that is, no idea, but to say it would be unaffected….I don’t get how you can say that. Hell, didn’t some KC fans say that they were not renewing their tickets b/c of Greinke leaving…..Pujols leaving would have fifty times the effect of Greinke leaving, easy.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Jan 19, 2011 1:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Because a fan's decision to renew/not renew his season tickets would be a much better (though far from perfect) indication of his reaction to the offseason

..than would attendance figures from many months after the fact.

There are way, way, way too many factors that go into attendance. So much so, that there is no way to EVER know exactly what causes attendance to go up and down. The only way for us to "solve’ this debate would for the exact same season, under literally all the exact same conditions, to be played out twice: one with Albert, one without. Since that can never happen, we can never know exactly what Pujols would do to attendance….

So, throwing up attendance figures in this debate is 100% irrelevant. It is meaningless.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Jan 19, 2011 2:06 AM EST up reply actions  

reactions to the offseason dont matter....

if they still sell the tickets….tickets count the same whether they’re sold in january or in august

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 2:07 AM EST up reply actions  

but we are talking about the reasons people buy tickets.

IF Pujols leaves and season ticket sales are down…then he affected ticket sales, even if in August the team gets real hot and attendance goes up b/c they are in a pennant race.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Jan 19, 2011 2:49 AM EST up reply actions  

whatever you think....

the attendance history shows that what really affects ticket sales is having a winning team…if they’re a better team b/c they turn Pujols’ $30 million into 3 good players, they’ll sell more tickets

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 3:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Ask a Cardinals fan in St. Louis

If they would go to the games less often if the team let Pujols walk. You may be surprised to find out how much he means to their fans.

by Tito42 on Jan 19, 2011 8:00 AM EST up reply actions  

No doubt there are many factors

The data isn’t out there to calculate if losing Pujols would lead to an “X” or “Y” percent drop in attendance. There are many, many factors that go into attendance. More people attended Royals games than average during Greinke starts, but it’s not like he sold out every game. Weather, time of year, the opponent, day of the week, the promotion, etc. all have affects as well.

But Pujols really is the face of the franchise, a face the likes of which we haven’t seen in our pro sports teams in KC for a long time. I just got an email the other day from the Royals to buy the Pepsi Max 15-game ticket package. In St. Louis, they offer the “Pujols Pack.”

by Tito42 on Jan 19, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

This opens up a roster spot for one of our great pitching prospects.

Why go sign some player on another team when we can bring up one of our prospects who is ready for the big show? I don’t want any of the crappy free agents out there.

David

by david.lowe on Jan 18, 2011 9:13 PM EST reply actions  

Tend to agree with David

but also with everyone else. there’s no need to hurry. and really, the guys aren’t ready yet

by Freneau on Jan 18, 2011 11:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh man... Looks like I am ridiculously late to the dance...

Im assuming everything above is hilarious.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion

by averagegatsby on Jan 18, 2011 11:40 PM EST reply actions  

I do not have the willpower to read it all...

cliffs notes would be awesome.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion

by averagegatsby on Jan 18, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

gil is awesome…this is awesome…i respect gil….we’re set in a couple of years….lets sign all of the shitty guys we can so we can win the division this year and sell wellemeyer jerseys….you’re dumb….ive been a fan for 50 years….the royals havent been around for 50 years

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 18, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Just to skim the posts and find the gems without actually reading them..

i did a search of “rec” and I found that the word precedent was used at an alarming rate.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion

by averagegatsby on Jan 18, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

that was a totally different conversation

back when this thread was actually about Meche retiring and not just hypothetical roster ideas

by Freneau on Jan 18, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions  

That was a brief tangent

The main points of contention were should we work hard to spend all of this money on a bunch of minor upgrades, and did the 2011 season have to be a rebuilding year at all.

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Whats Guillen doing?

Im sure he’d come back for 12 million

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion

by averagegatsby on Jan 18, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, that's an upgrade over Gordon!

(I’m sure a poster somewhere up there would say)

The immoderate moderator

by Scott McKinney on Jan 18, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions  

AWL THOZ RzBzIz'z

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion

by averagegatsby on Jan 18, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Breaking news on the money front.

 Dutton says the team is unlikely to use the payroll savings from Meche’s retirement on free agents, but will instead boost their draft and international free agent budgets.

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Jan 19, 2011 12:33 AM EST reply actions  

Why not buy Year 1 of Moustakas' FA out with it?

Get an extra year of the Moose! Think Boras would go with that?

by DaytonSucks on Jan 19, 2011 6:03 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

I am sad that this thread will surpass the Chen thread

I guess that could come back

C’MON CHEN!!

Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Jan 19, 2011 9:11 AM EST reply actions  

Bubba?

Since it’s already been declared that Gil’s $12mil is going to the draft and international scouting, i really hope that if he’s still available that the Royals pick Bubba Starling in this year’s draft.

He’ll supposedly be a tough sign cost-wise, and hopefully we could make this happen so we don’t let another local potential superstar get away from us in the draft (i.e. Albert Pujols).

Just a thought, but i would also like to see more younger latin players coming through our system as well.

by eschneid on Jan 19, 2011 12:16 PM EST reply actions  

Something to think about

The K was renovated for $250 million, $25 million from the team. Now that Meche gave back $12.5 million should he at least get a key to the stadium? At least tickets to the All Star game?

by TraderJack on Jan 19, 2011 12:36 PM EST reply actions  

Maybe Funkhouser will use this as a new reason not to pay the $2M per year to the Jackson Co. Sports Authority for stadium maintenance.

by Tito42 on Jan 19, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe a nearby parking space

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Jan 19, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

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