A premature look at 2012, spending, needs and free agents
I have to start by apologizing for this post. The following is basically going to be me thinking out loud and typing it up. It will be an exercise full of speculation and entirely premature analysis. But I think the topic is interesting nonetheless. Other than seeing how some prospects perform, the Royals 2011 season isn’t going to be very fun or compelling. So my mind keeps turning to 2012. There have been some recent discussions on this site about when an organization should spend, how much and where. While I don’t think 2011 was a good year to spend a lot of money on the FA market, it looks like some significant spending will have to be done in 2012.
As it stands now, counting everyone that will likely be on the 25-man roster, the Royals 2011 payroll will be about $39 million. Next year, if the Royals decline Francoeur’s mutual option, but keep everyone else, and fill in any holes with league minimum players, the payroll would be $37 million. Wal*Mart jokes aside, I don’t think David Glass wants to be the Jeffrey Loria of the American League. The ultra-low 2011 payroll was not by design. And I think Glass is going to be itching to spend in 2012. And there will be a lot of pressure on him from the fanbase and to some extent from MLB to build up a reasonable payroll more in line with team’s revenues.
And in 2012, I think the Royals will be nearing the end of their rebuilding phase. While I don’t think Moore should go all-in on a "Win Now!" strategy, I do think it would make sense to spend some money to improve the team, start winning and add some pieces which will help the Royals for multiple years. While a stopgap might make sense here or there, I think Moore should be looking to add quality players who should augment a core of good young prospects beyond just 2012. So I agree that more money should be spent on the MLB payroll. The only questions are how much and where.
Therefore, I wanted to look at where the Royals have holes and needs in the medium term, and where they are already set. As I said above, the following is just speculation. How players and prospects perform during the 2011 season will give us important information about them and may change much of what follows. While I will touch on free agent options, this is mostly not about "I think we should target this FA." I’m hoping to initiate a discussion on where we think the Royals have needs at the MLB level and where it might make sense to fill a need with someone from outside the organization.
With regard to free agent spending, I think Moore needs to follow two simple rules: 1) Don’t sign anyone that blocks a top prospect. 2) Don’t sign any huge, very risky albatross contracts that could hamstring the organization for years. If we’re going to make any high money deals for multiple years, the player has to be worth it. No big stretches for only so-so players.
Catcher
With any luck, this will be Jason Kendall’s final season with the Royals. That would leave Brayan Pena and Lucas May. Neither of these guys are current or future stars. But I like Pena’s bat and I think he handles himself sufficiently well behind the plate. And they both come cheap. I wouldn’t mind having that tandem as a short-term option at catcher for at least 2012. But I wouldn’t mind an affordable upgrade.
FA Options – There isn’t a great crop of FA catchers for 2012. Yadier Molina might be on the market, but he has a team option that I think will get picked up. I kind of like the idea of Chris Snyder. Not a good hitter, but decent for a catcher. He’s ok defensively and he shouldn’t be too expensive or require many years. Ivan Rodriguez is my real fear here. I think Dayton Moore is going to want a seasoned, gritty veteran who can handle, calm and mentor the Royals young pitchers. I can easily see him overpaying I-Rod for two years, Kendall-style.
First Base/Designated Hitter
Logjam! With Billy Butler, Kila Ka’aihue and eventually Eric Hosmer, I think the Royals are set here. Now, Kila might fall on his face in 2011. But even if that is true, Hosmer should be making it to KC at least at some point in 2012. I don’t think it would make sense for the Royals to go out and get a free agent first baseman. Even a failed Kila or maybe Clint Robinson would work as a 2012 stopgap until Hosmer arrived.
FA Options – Prince Fielder, Adrian Gonzalez, Albert Pujols. It would be nice to have any one of them, but I don’t want the Royals to get into a bidding war for any of these guys and eventually have to overpay and spend 40% of the budget for the forseeable future on one player.
Second Base
Assuming Moustakas will be in KC and playing third base, the Royals will have Mike Aviles and Chris Getz for second base. I’m a big Aviles fan and while he’s no world beater, he’s got a good bat for a middle infielder and his defensive skills are more than sufficient for the position. Getz isn’t worth much, but I don’t necessarily mind him as a defensive backup. But while sufficient, I don’t think either of these guys should block a real upgrade if that is doable. And then there are Christian Colon and Johnny Giavotella coming up. I doubt they’ll be in the majors in 2012, but if not they won’t be far away. Should the Royals keep a position free for them? In my opinion, only if Colon has a really good 2011 season. Otherwise I’d be willing to acquire a good FA second baseman on a multi-year deal.
FA Options – If Kelly Johnson has a more human and less superstarish 2011 season, he might be a good, affordable option for the Royals. He has a plus bat with a little below average defense. But in 2012 he’ll be 30, so I wouldn’t want there to be too many years on the contract. The real jewel in the 2012 FA class for second base is Rickie Weeks. He’s an ultra-talented player who is an excellent hitter and an average defender at the position. This one would really cost both in terms of dollars and years. I’d like for the Royals to be in on the bidding, but if things get crazy, I wouldn’t want Moore to stay in too long.
Third Base
Certainly by 2012 Mike Moustakas should be holding down this position for the Royals. Some questions about his defense remain, but I think he should be given every effort to stick at third, including the entire 2012 season.
FA Options – none very appealing. Forget about it. Stick with Moustakas.
Shortstop
I’m bullish on Alcides Escobar as at least a league average player. Even if he has a poor 2011 season, I think the Royals should stick with him at short for all of 2012. Christian Colon remains a viable backup plan for the medium term future.
FA Options – There’s Jason Bartlett, J.J. Hardy, and Jose Reyes. Bartlett and Hardy are ok, but they don’t interest me much. I’d rather stick with Escobar and continue to see what’s there. Reyes is going to be crazy expensive, even moreso than Weeks, I believe. I don’t think I’m interested.
Left Field
Alex Gordon remains a talented but underperforming player. Hopefully the latter portion of that sentence will change in 2011. But even if it doesn’t the Royals are so thin organization-wide in the OF that I can’t see him not being a full-time outfielder for the Royals in 2012. Who is there to unseat him? David Lough? Derrick Robinson? One of the other speedy center fielders? I don’t think so, especially not in 2012.
FA Options – I’ll deal with those when I get to Right Field.
Center Field
The Royals will still have control of Melky Cabrera in 2012, but I really don’t think that’s a good thing. If Melky has a good 2011 season, I hope he gets traded by the deadline. If he doesn’t, I hope Moore has the good sense to non-tender him. Lorenzo Cain might be the center fielder of the future and hopefully he’ll get a good deal of playing time in KC in 2011 to prove it. Other in-organization CF options include Mitch Maier (if still in the organization), Gregor Blanco, Jarrod Dyson and Derrick Robinson. I still like D-Rob as a prospect, but he still has some things to prove in the minors. Dyson looks speedy but that’s about it, but who knows. I kind of like Maier and Blanco but they both look like below average MLB players and pretty good 4th/5th outfielders.
FA Options – Have any interest in a 35-year-old Carlos Beltran? I don’t think he’ll be completely done as a player, but I really don’t think I’m interested. Grady Sizemore has a team option for $8.25M for 2012. I think the Indians will likely exercise it. But if he doesn’t have a pretty good bounce back season in 2011, maybe they wouldn’t. If so, I think he’d be a good buy low candidate, although he still wouldn’t come very cheap. But I think he’d be affordable and he’s a risk I’d be willing to take.
Right Field
Jeff Francoeur won’t be back? Right? The mutual option was just a throw-in, right? Please, Dayton. See the light. Give up on your mancrush. If I can give up on Banny, you can give up on Frenchy. Now that we have that out of the way, this position is a real area of need for the Royals. The cupboard is bare. The optimistic Royals team of the future has Wil Myers in right field. But when might he be ready for the majors? I think his ETA is 2013 and probably not for the full season. So the Royals have a corner OF hole to fill. If they bring someone in for a long-term deal, I don’t think that person would block Myers if he continues to look like a top prospect. Gordon is only under team control through 2013. So I think there’s room in the outfield for an addition, both for the short-term and the long-term.
FA Options – There are a lot of corner outfield options but nobody that really bowls me over. Remember David DeJesus? Unless Beane extends him, he’ll be a free agent. I might be willing to sign him for the right price, but most of his value comes from defense, and those skills tend to deteriorate over time, especially at his age. How do you feel about a 36-year-old J.D. Drew? I’d be worried as I think he’d be very expensive and require a bunch of years. Whoever acquires him would likely be acquiring a lot of decline. Not that he’d be awful, but what are the odds that he’ll actually earn the money he’s going to get paid? How about Ryan Ludwick? He’ll be 33 and I’m not sure how well his bat would translate to the American League and Kauffman Stadium. And his value is in his bat, as his defense is merely above average, and might not even be that by 2012. The Yankees have a $10.25M option on Nick Swisher for 2012. I think they’ll likely exercise it, but if they want to go in a different direction, I’d be interested in Swisher. He’s got a great bat and his defense is only a little below average. He’ll be in his early 30’s, but I think his hitting skills will age well. I still wouldn’t want to do a crazy long contract though.
Starting Pitching
Unless the Royals extend someone’s contract, they’ll only have Luke Hochevar, Vin Mazzaro and Sean O’Sullivan under team control for 2012. I like Hochevar as at least a mid-rotation starter. Mazzaro is more likely a #4 or #5. O’Sullivan is a borderline #5 in my opinion. But I don’t think Mazzaro or O’Sullivan are good enough to block any prospect or prevent any free agent signing. So I think the Royals will need at least three starters added to that group. Will more than one of Danny Duffy, Mike Montgomery, John Lamb and Chris Dwyer be ready in 2012? By some point in the season, probably at least two. Very possibly more than that. What about Aaron Crow or Everett Teaford? They seem like more of a longshot to be either ready or good enough. And the rest of the good starting pitching prospects seem like they’re further away. I wouldn’t want to clog up the rotation with a bunch of free agents, blocking top prospects, but I would like to add one genuinely good FA starting pitcher if possible.
FA Options – the cream of the crop are Edwin Jackson, Wandy Rodriguez and C.J. Wilson. They are going to draw large offers for multiple years from many teams. I’d love to have any of them. But there’s a real opportunity here for Moore to go crazy and offer too much money over too many years.
Relief Pitching
I kind of like the Royals young core of relievers, including Joakim Soria, Robinson Tejeda, Jeremy Jeffress, Tim Collins, Louis Coleman and maybe Blake Wood and Greg Holland. They could use a lefty and if one or two of the above crap out, the Royals could add a reasonably priced decent free agent. But I’d really like Moore to avoid the 2/$8M and 2/$10M deals for middle relievers which have become popular in recent years. The Royals have a decent or perhaps even good pool of young, cheap pitchers from which they can put together a pretty good bullpen. Dumping millions of dollars into the bullpen would, in my opinion, be wasting it. It can be better spent elsewhere.
Conclusion
So what does this long, rambling dissertation mean? I’m not sure. It seems like the have decent options at second base and catcher, but could definitely use the right free agent upgrade. And there are big holes in right field and in the rotation that could be filled via free agency. I don't think the Royals should try to fill all of the above needs via free agency. But there are clearly some good players to pursue, and no matter what the Royals do, they'll lose out on some, probably most, of them. But I think they are worthy targets.
My strongest opinion is that the Royals really do need to significantly increase payroll for 2012. It’s going to happen. How much? I don’t know what Moore or Glass are planning, but I would think they should increase it by at least $10M and maybe as much as $25M. Maybe. I certainly don’t want them to force themselves up to something like a $70M payroll, leaving little room to make significant additions for 2013 and beyond, when I think the Royals might have a legitimate shot at contending.
Just to make sure this post has something of substance, I'll include a picture of my daughter Katie. It is from several months ago, but it's one of my favorites, so you have to look at it.
What do you mean Brian Bannister is gone?
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Good write up
C – shouldn’t Manny Pina be ready by then? I’m not sure he’s good enough to be a starter, but he probably deserves to be in the conversation.
CF – Nate McLouth I would think would have his $10 mill option declined. He’ll be 30. The problem is he doesn’t hit enough to play COF, and doesn’t field enough to play CF.
COF – Cody Ross, Michael Cuddyer, and Josh Willingham all might command reasonable salaries. The latter two are pretty bad defensively though.
And it will be interesting to see what Jose Bautista commands.
Really, I’d like to see us pursue Cuban and Japanese FAs. I don’t see a lot in the MLB FA pool that looks great. But who knows, maybe things will look different a year from now. Honestly, Katie looks like the best option for this club. She’s young, she has tremendous upside, she is used to playing in a large market and she has plus hands.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
That’s a good point about Pina. I just don’t have a high opinion of him. But if the Royals don’t add anyone, he’s in the mix for backup cacher. Those are other good corner OF options. Each might make sense for the right contract.
And I do want more Cuban FA’s. Japanese, perhaps but you have to be careful. No pitchers who rely on splitters. No batter who gets any of his value from HR’s in Japan.
And you’re right. Katie does have plus hands. Unfortunatley she doesn’t have plus hands and plus hands. :( We’re working on it.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
I can get not being big on Pina
…though it seems like, worst case scenario, he’ll be a serviceable backup catcher for quite a while, and really, given that B. Pena has always received a bit of a bad rap for his D (though, like you, I’m a fan) I think Pina would be a much better backup than May, who is a catcher sort of in the same way that Mike Jacobs is a first baseman.
What say you about Salvador Perez, though? He likely won’t be ready until late 2012, as he’ll need a full 2011 at NWA and likely close to a full year in Omaha during 2012, but if he continues to perform at the level that he is, I could see the Royals calling him up well into the 2012 season if for whatever reason they have soured on B. Pena. And really, until Perez is ready, I am happy to leave the catching job in the hands of Pena and (eventually) Pina.
I like what I’ve read about Perez. Just don’t know when he’ll really be ready for the majors. I’m optimistic and of course don’t want him rushed. As you point out, others can handle the position until he’s ready.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
By that age, my kids’ hands seemed to be everywhere. Amazing range, nothing they couldn’t get to.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
You've got a point
I never was a good amateur scout.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
Very cute, BTW
That pouty look is a winner, but you’ve got to watch that she doesn’t totally enslave you with it.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Just a pony. I'm not crazy.
He lives on our balcony. But I do make Katie clean up after him.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Stupid enter key
What I meant to say…
I’d love to hear how you can pull that off in the Big Apple. I think my roommate and I would appreciate a pony in our dingy apartment in the Bay Area.
And what about Tim Smith?
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jan 19, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
He Is What
He is. I don’t know if he is who we thought he was; crown his ass just to be safe.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jan 20, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
First of all
That cute photo should come with a quote, something like:
“What you talkin’ ’bout, Dayton?”
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
There is a little quote hidden just under it
Banny was her favorite player. Poor kid.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Nicely done and cute photo
Another area the Royals should monitor is the trade market for good players with somewhat expensive contracts that their current teams may look to move at a discount for salary relief — for example, the third Dan Haren trade (Arizona to Angels).
This would also include good players in their last year of arbitration where their current team does not want to pay their expected salary – for example, the second JJ Hardy (Brewers to O’s) and Jason Bartlett (Rays to Padres) trades. Thos players might be even more useful because they would generally be young and their arbitration status would give the team some leverage in signing them to a reasonable multi-year deal that buys out a year or two of free agency.
Yes, I didn’t get into the whole potential trade market. But there will likely be trade options which are as attractive or even moreso than free agent options.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Trade for it.
First, very nice write-up and your daughter is adorable; you are a fortunate man. I did a similar perusing of the FA awhile back and, yeah, not much there (I hadn’t considered Weeks, but that would be very interesting). Trading is the way I think they may have to go. The Royals have put themselves in an excellent position, both financially and talent-wise, to acquire say, a Justin Upton, who the Diamondbacks have talked about trading. The Royals are getting to a point where they may need to consolidate potential into some proven production, imo. And (gasp) they actually have a surplus at some positions (for instance, I don’t see how they’ll need and be able to fully utilize both Colon and Giovatella at 2b, if that’s where Colon ends up). And if an Upton WAS on the block, the Royals are going to be able to out-bid most teams in terms of what they could offer an Arizona…without crippling their system. Say, Montgomery, Crow, Eibner and Giavotella for Upton, or something along those lines (maybe it’s more or less than that, but this isn’t really about what exactly the package would have to be to satisfy AZ–that’s another topic of discussion), still leaves the Royals with premium prospects at all of those positions. Upton is going to be 23 this year and his contract runs through ‘15, topping out at $14.5 million. Maybe it’s not Upton, but I think they’ll have the means to get someone like him.
Lenny Dykstra : "Von Hayes traded? Really? GREAT trade...who'd we get?"
by setupunchtag on Feb 3, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
I like this route much more
Because we’re going to have a tough time attracting FA until we’re winners. Players traded get no say in where they go.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Agreed
and from the conversation above, it seems like we will have a lot of extra close to the majors guys that perform better than their projections (Gio, C. Rob, maybe even Kila) that people might want in return, along with a higher upside player at the lower levels.
It would be interesting to see what is available. Maybe a young ace with filthy stuff trying to bail from a crumbling NL central team?
Now for some thoughts:
Good writeup, NY.
I’ll start by saying I agree that there will be pressure on Glass to increase payroll after this year from MLB. I sure want to agree with your assessment that he will be “itching” to do so. I think he will be willing – but perhaps not the extent he needs to. Sure hope you are right and I am wrong on this one.
I agree with most of your assessments – but for some reason, I don’t fear the I-Rod acquisition like you. Maybe that’s me being an optimist for a change! Here is what I would envision happening:
1) I would target acquiring Yadier Molina for catcher. The Cardinals could easily be strapped for payroll room when they extend Pujols. Perhaps they could be persuaded to trade Yadi, with the Royals sending Salvador Perez + a couple of other pieces they need? The bonus for this would be it would allow us to move Myers to the outfield without worrying about catcher position going forward. This would “fast track” him, hopefully.
2) I still think one of the Butler/Kila/Hosmer trio could be traded for the good, established SP. I have no problem doing it this way – because SPs on the FA market are ridiculously expensive – even more than position players.
3) I would actually make 2B a target area for spending FA dollars on a good player. Weeks is a good call there. This would free up the Royals to trade either Johnny G or Colon for a good OF prospect. If that doesn’t materialize, Colon is a good backup plan to Escobar at SS.
4) The other big target for me is Sizemore, as you say. We are still thin in outfield (we have quantity, but unless Gordon resembles the 2008 Gordon, we are probably sorely lacking in quality). Moore is constantly stressing defense when discussing OF because of the large K playing field – I’m OK with that, BUT, get a premium guy who can field AND hit. Sizemore would be expensive – but fits the mold we are looking for perfectly. Another guy I’d LOVE to target in a trade would be Shin Soo Choo – but he’s not likely to be available. Sizemore could be.
5) Because of my desire to target the missing pieces in our future position players (catcher, outfield, and perhaps 2B), I believe we would not be able to swing any acquisitions at SP. We are going to have to “sink or swim” with the four lefties, Crowe, and whichever of the current crop proves acceptable (perhaps only Hochevar and Mazzaro?)
6) I think they have sufficient minor league arms that they should not have to worry much about the bullpen at all. Of course, I also think they could move Soria for something really damn good – but they apparently don’t see it that way, so why speculate on that?
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
I like the way you're thinking
Yadier should be veteran and gritty enough by 2012 to satisfy Dayton. I would endorse a Weeks signing, as well. But, I think OF is the biggest hole. I’d be interested in Sizemore or Choo, but it’s possible that neither one would be available. Whatever happened to all the Justin Upton trade rumors? The Royals definitely have room in payroll now. That’s a gamble I wouldn’t mind making now.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Jan 19, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll start by saying I agree that there will be pressure on Glass to increase payroll after this year from MLB. I sure want to agree with your assessment that he will be "itching" to do so. I think he will be willing – but perhaps not the extent he needs to. Sure hope you are right and I am wrong on this one.
I actually think Glass might want to spend more money for 2012 than I would. As I think the Royals will be more likely to contend in 2013, I would save significant money for that offseason and not shoot the whole wad on 2012.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
I would like us to join in the Pujols bidding
just because we can, and to run up the price on the Cardinals or any other team that might bid on him. I don’t actually want to sign him though.
by stlJeff on Jan 19, 2011 3:39 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
i agree.
For whaever reason I really want their fans to suffer forever. I want that contract to cripple that franchise.
The prophecy has been fulfilled.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 20, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
So what you're saying is
we’ll bad in 2012 as well. Great. Looking forward to it.
Well, better than 2012
But not contenders unless a bunch of prospects come up and make a big impact in their rookie season. But I don’t think we can expect that kind of best case scenario.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno, here's my conservative back of the envelope projections for 2012
Danny Duffy: 4 WAR on the heels of impossible-to-hold back two months in 2011
Eric Hosmer 5 WAR, doesn’t get to 7 because Royals hold him in the minors for a couple months to game the clock
Alcides Escobar: 4.5 WAR. League average offense and +20 defense
Lorenzo Cain: 4 WAR. Great defense, decent bat
Moustakas: sophomore slump leads to a mere 5.5 WAR season coming off his 8 win 2011 RoY performance and Noble Prize for Contributions to Causal Dining Education
Wil Myers 3 WAR. What else can you expect in a September call-up
Billy Butler: 6.5 WAR makes his 3-year, $10M dollar with 5 $5M club options folr 2014-19 look pretty good (hey, the Royals gave him security, he had to give them a little something)
Kila Ka’aihue hits .270 in Japan
Alex Gordon: Bench player for Blue Jays. Who needs him?
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
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by Matt Klaassen on Jan 19, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
Forgot Monty Lamb and Dwyer
Just put them down for an average of 3.5 overall. Like I said: conservative.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jan 19, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
So you'd put the over/under at 110 wins?
Why do you always have to be so negative? They really could manage 120.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
The only significant WAR Frenchy will likely put up
is one over pizza.
by Cap Midnight on Jan 19, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
Rec for simultaneous busting of both
my snark AND sarcasm meters!
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
But Gordon makes the All-Star team
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Like Omar Infante
The prophecy has been fulfilled.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 20, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
if I’m DM…
I look at Beltran and Sizemore as options for a COF spot. I dont think either of them will be good enough defensively in CF for DM, but both would be great COF and should hit assuming they can stay healthy.
Yadi’s a great option, but either the Cards will pick up that option or trade him to someone who will lock him up long term before he ever hits FA…Red Sox are lacking in Catchers.
Weeks is a guy I really like…but I think he’ll get a contract somewhere around 5/75…which is huge commitment for a good but not great player. The only way I think about a bidding war for Weeks is if both Giavotella and Colon have disappointing seasons.
I’d also like Swisher, but I think the Yankees like him and I get the feeling that he absolutely loves NY.
As far as pitching goes, I’ll wait. 2012 isnt the real year competitive year. I’ll wait. Its another year of injury risk.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 4:28 PM EST reply actions
I'd like to see Weeks play another injury free season first.
160 games in 2010 and never more than 129 prior to that:
160
37
129
118
95
96
Seems like a guy I’d be wary of signing long term.
But what if we somehow got
Montero from the Yankees as, say, part of a deal with Butler. We get some other people, but it’s the kind of the Yankees would do. Molina’s fine for a veteran catcher, but would you pass up Montero?
I like Weeks, but I think the bidding war will get nuts for him because he is that kind of impact player. I just don’t see that happening here in KC; I think if either Getz or Aviles can’t handle it, we go get a light bad/good glove type on the cheap and release the bad one.
Swisher would be way too expensive. CF in my view seems to be the best outfield position, but yeah the corners are an issue. Frenchy is who he is, but that aside, I actually think Gordon flopping is a bigger issue we’d have to cover. I like pursuing maybe an Upton trade. Since the rumors have died off, maybe he’s not as expensive??? He’s definately got upside at this point in his career.
On pitching, I think whatever we can muster to the majors, we end up signing one veteran, if nothing else to anchor the staff and replace the “rent a pitcher” I see the royals having in the 5 slot this year. Given the bevvy of lefties we will have, Edwin Jackson would be my choice and should be gettable at a decent price if we so desire. And just so we’re clear, I think SOS is awful and won’t last a month, so between Chen, Miner (likely later) and whoever else, we might need a body to stabilize things.
Oh, and if we can get CJ Wilson, to hell with what I just said about lefties, but I suspect that will be a Cliff Lee light scenario, in which the Royals won’t win.
by Cap Midnight on Jan 19, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
Jeff Francis Presser right now
Worth an open thread or is everyone already pretty much bored with him?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
he seems like he'd be real boring....
i mean, he is canadian…
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
It has already put me to sleep
-No decision on where he is in the rotation – doesn’t matter anyway who is #1, #2, etc.
-Francis very tough on lefties
-Both Francis and Chen were big signings because we wanted depth – didn’t want to be an injury away from calling up a prospect who wasn’t ready
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Does this mean he passed his physical?
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
I would guess so
More for Yosty
Too early to talk about lineup…but when talking about leadoff spot, the names he mentioned were Blanco, Dyson and Getz. Woo-hoo!
Saw Cain and Escobar as A ball players, thought they were going to be All-Stars
Likes guys that have something to prove like Frenchy, Melky, Francis. Likes guys that had success at a very young age like Frenchy and Melky.
Escobar is an awesome ping-pong player
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
so, its a lock that Cain is in AAA then?
if he’s even mentioning Dyson and Blanco, it’d seem that way
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
At least Blanco can get on base
It would be nice to have some OBP at the top of the lineup.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
yeah...i dont really get why dayton traded for blanco....
and then seemed immediately to not want to give him a shot….decent defense, good OBP…we could do worse
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
More
Kendall is ahead of schedule, may even throw in February. Could be out half year, but could come back before that.
Kendall is still mentoring our young catchers
Aviles will bounce around, but play primarily 3B with Betimet
Thinks we may surprise some people this year, doesn’t see it as a non-competitive year
Is willing to be patient with The Process – went through a similar Process in Atlanta and Milwaukee.
Looks at numbers, but also looks at makeup – how do you handle adversity?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Hold the presses...
Blanco, Dyson, Getz at leadoff?
Whatever on Getz, that’s a terrible choice. But Yost is revealing information here. That means Blanco or Dyson in CF. Where’s Melky/Frenchy/Gordon playing? Is Frenchy going to platoon with Gordon? Is Gordon getting shipped out?
If Blanco or Dyson are in the lineup, they are in CF with Gordon in LF and Francoeur in RF…I think. That would move Melky to the bench. I hope.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
I fear the Melky/Gordon platoon
Gordon will get maybe two full weeks of starts and then won’t start again against LH all season.
It's all ball bearings these days!
by CentralChamps20?? on Jan 20, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
I thought I heard him use the phrase "tremendous succes"+"Franceour" in the same sentence.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
Cain in AAA would depress me, honestly
I have no real feeling that he is going to blossom into a star or anything – just was hoping that they got him with intent to give him a full evaluation at major league level in 2011.
I still think Escobar in the present, and Odorizzi in the distant future, where the keys to the Greinke trade – but Cain should be given the benefit of the doubt over Dyson/Maier. He is already 25! Begin his major league development NOW! I guess I could sort of understand giving Blanco the job – but Cain arguably has much more upside than Blanco – and “upside” should play a part in this decision, if you ask me.
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
but Cain should be given the benefit of the doubt over Dyson/Maier.
I think he’s over Dyson, Maier and Blanco on the CF depth chart. But everyone is behind Melky for some reason. With Melky starting, I think Cain will be in AAA so he can play everyday. If Melky goes down or gets traded, I think Cain is called up.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
i dont get why he'd bring up dyson and blanco as leadoff guys
if he wasnt expecting one of them to get a significant amount of playing time. it seems to me like melky might become an afterthought….although, i didnt listen…so maybe he was gushing over melky as well.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
I hope so
I’d much rather see Blanco, Dyson, Maier or Cain than Melky.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
im starting to get the feeling that we were all wrong
about Moores intentions for Melky. Is it possible that he brought him in simply as a 4th OF/insurance guy? I mean, that wouldnt make it a smart move…just less stupid.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
It's possible
All I get of the KC media is the Star online. I thought others here said Moore talked about him as the starting CFer. Hopefully Moore and Yost really don’t feel that way. I wish someone in the media would just ask Yost who the starting CFer was going to be. His answer, even if not clear, would be instructive.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
that would be good....
it’d say a lot if he didnt come out and say ‘melky’
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. You do.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
change your screen name to red bandwagon then
they’re always looking for more
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
and for morans
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Francis now out
Passed physical.
No talk about where he fits in the rotation. Just met Ned today.
Finished last year healthy.
First thought when he heard KC was interested was – Bob McClure. Worked with him in the minors before. Taught him not to get too high off wins, not too low off losses.
Has been on a team like this before – with great young minor league talent. Saw the Royals AA team last year in a rehab start – was impressed. Liked Moustakas’ swing. Impressed by Montgomery.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Moore's basic rule
should be that he doesn’t acquire any contracts that are potentially untradeable by the time the first fruits of the farm system might be offered extensions to buy out FA years. That probably means nothing longer than 3 or 4 years and nothing very expensive or risky. Yes, I’m thinking of Jose Guillen and Gil Meche.
one more starting pitcher:
Yu Darvish
a longshot—but he’ll be 26 in 2012—the posting fee will be huge—and we might be competing with the Yanks—at the very least, Darvish will supply one extra very good starter—perhaps that will slightly lessen demand.
I see a SP as being the biggest need going into 2013—so adding one of those pitchers would be big—and risky.
Darvish question
I kind of thought that he was going to become a free agent. Is that not true and he will still be the property of a Japanese team then? If so, I’m not interested in investing in both the posting fee and a huge contract on top of it.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
he'll be posted....
he’ll cost at least Dice K money. He’ll pitch for the yankees.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
I also thought he was waiting to be a free agent
but thought that was coming soon. I would love this, but don’t ever really see a Japanese player of any stature (see, not Yabuta) wanting to play in Kansas City.
Darvish is a free agent
After the 2014. Until then, he has to be posted by his NPB team.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
If they post him, then I don't think the Royals can afford him
Including the posting fee, the Red Sox got Matsuzaka for 6/$103M. And he hasn’t been worth $17M in any season. And I don’t think the Royals can afford that kind of risk on a player who has never played in the U.S.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Darvish is who I want
He has stated he wants to pitch in the US in 2012. Darvish would also be two years younger than Daisuke was when he came over.
Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity
by Old Man Duggan on Jan 19, 2011 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
Even more pressure on Glass to spend in 2012
is the All Star game, which will put him and his team under a bit of a microscope.
Sizemore would be the only guy i would go after.
I doubt the Indians let him go. Maybe a starting pitcher but that is an unimpressive list IMO. Rather us keep saving for later years.
Agreed.
But I think 2012 is when we start to think about trading prospects for impact guys at positions of need. (I’m in the minority of thinking that 2011 wasn’t too early for Moore to do that in the Greinke trade. Besides, we may have been a lot happier with the return if the Nats trade had been allowed to happen.)
Spending
Look to extend Butler, especially if he’s showing some power in the wake of his hand injury he said he played with most of the season.
Catcher: Pray someone breaks out a little from our current crop. If not, stopgap.
OF situation:
We presumably have
Gordon
Cain
Myers
Hosmer?
Lough
Dyson
D Rob
Blanco
And then a lot of other stuff…
If Gordon can stop sucking I think we have the makings of a good OF without substantial addition. Certainly lots of speed.
With money and the prospect we have.
I almost wouldn’t mind trying to trade for some top proven talent. As much as we have all fell in love with our prospects and i want to see them all get a chance in a royals uniform, the prospect failing rate scares me.
Trade a couple guys with the promise we can extend a young star and i would be happy as well.
Sizemore would be the perfect player to mix with our young guys.
My prediction
To avoid scrutiny for their low payroll, the Royals sign a lucrative $25 million deal to a previously unknown OF who they claim is 25, but appears 50. His name – Glan Dass.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jan 19, 2011 6:16 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Darvish and Weeks...
Are the most interesting FAs to me. As a ‘weeks owner’ last year, however, I might prefer to stay away. Warning bells on the babip and spiked hr rate were going off all year. Maybe regression in 2011 will make him affordable in ‘12, but he’s still a flawed player and he still scares me.
Darvish is the kind of potentially core-building cog that smart teams like the red sox have tended toward in recent years. There are a lot of reasons it might make sense for the royals to use their financial flexibility to obtain a player like Darvish, but the scarcity of potential Aces is chief among them; the cardinals have built their team on this philosophy (without the game’s #1 farm system to support it, and they’ve been tremendously successful.
Obviously, the financial might of teams like the yankees could make clearing Darvish’s posting fee unpalatable. And obviously the posting system is inconvenient at best. But the magnitude of disappointments leveled by Igawa and Matzusaka is going to give some teams pause, and I could definitely see the Yankees preferring to pilfer a Prince-less Brewers for one year of Greinke + an extension (or someone else) than incurring the risk that comes with investing heavily on a Japanese pitcher.
Maybe that’s not the case and the yankees end up going ballistic on the market next year, as some expect. But the Royals are in a position to post slightly more than they think Darvish is worth, which probably won’t grant them exclusive access to bargaining with him- but could.
by sumajestad on Jan 19, 2011 8:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Much less moderate than me. She refuses to contol her volume or her bodily functions.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 19, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
Aren't all the posting fees kept secret so MLB can dictate to a degree where guys go?
The Major Japanese transplants have all landed in big markets (LA, NY and Boston. Seattle landed Ichiro due to the major japanese population in the area. I just can’t see scenario where Darvish would be allowed to play here unless Glass just wanted to say screw you owners I’m gonna go public with my posting fee so everyone knows I posted the highest amount.
Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com
oakland just won the posting for the biggest japanese FA this year
lets not feel too sorry for ourselves b/c we’re in a small market. large markets normally win b/c large markets submit the biggest posting fees.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 19, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
He wasn't a game changer
Matsui, Nomo, Irrabu(butchered his name), Ichiro, Dice K were all supposed to be revolutionary or the biggest thing types.
Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com
matsui, nomo and irabu werent posted
irabus contract was purchased by the padres who then traded him to the yankees b/c he refused to play in SD…thats not an MLB conspiracy. Thats a guy wanting to play in a big market with a huge japanese population.
nomo was a free agent. matsui was a FA.
So, bascially, of all the guys you named….one went to a big market through the posting system and one went to a mid market team who bid the most b/c they had japanese owners who wanted to corner the japanese market.
There’s no fucking conspiracy here.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 20, 2011 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oaklands guy
was classified as like a 4/5 starter type
Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com
Aren’t all the posting fees kept secret so MLB can dictate to a degree where guys go?
I’m not sure what you are suggesting. The posting system is a silent auction with sealed bids, but the winning bid isn’t secret. We know, for instance that the Red Sox paid $51,111,111.11 for the rights to negotiate a contract with Matsuzaka. Are you saying that there is a conspiracy at work here where MLB actually decides behind the scenes where all of the Japanese players are going to go? If so, then are all of the bids fake? Who is in on the conspiracy?
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 20, 2011 7:18 AM EST up reply actions
Partial list of teams who have posted the highest bids for Japanese players
Tampa Bay: Iwamura
San Diego: Otsuka
Seattle: Ichiro
Oakland: Iwakuma
LA Dodgers: Ishii, Nakamura
Boston: Matsuzaka
NY Yankees: Igawa
Minnesota: Nishioka
The obvious conclusion is that there is a conspiracy amongst teams that play on a coast (or in Minnesota’s case, play on the coast of 10,000 lakes) to corner the market on Japanese players.
The larger conspiracy is why are there so many Canadians on the Blue Jays and in their system?
by Gopherballs on Jan 20, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
2011 Royals
This is the lineup I would like to see
LF Blanco
CF Dyson
RF Cain
3B Aviles
SS Escobar
2B Getz
1B Butler, Kila, or Gordon
C Pena and Pina
DH One of the 1Bs with May inot the mix
SP Hochevar, Davies, Chen, Francis, Vin or SOS
RP Vin or SOS, Tejeda, Chavez, Collins, Woody, Holland and Jack
That would give us 4-5 guys capable of 30+ SBs and 4-5 guys capable of 30-40 2Bs and 3-4 guys in the 25 HR range.
OF def. would be excellent because nobody is going to hit any triples.
Remeber, we play in a big ballpark, SPEED is better than power (Speed NEVER slumps)
3-4 guys in the 25 HR range?
Thats a stretch for kila and Bily…nobody else on that list will even sniff 15 let alone 25
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 21, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
That's what I was thinking.
I think it’s only happened about 5 times in club history.
"If people don't want to come out to the ball park, nobody's gonna stop 'em."
~Yogi Berra~
This is the 2011 Lineup I’d like to see:
1. Dyson – CF
2. Cain – LF
3. Butler – 1B
4. Kila – DH
5. Betemit – 3B
6. Franceour – RF
7. Pena – C
8. Aviles – 2B
9. Escobar – SS
Bench: Gordon, Cabrera, Blanco, Kendall, Getz, Maier
SP – Hochevar, Chen, Davies, Francis, Mazzaro
RP – Tejeda, Chavez, Jeffress, Collins, Holland, Sullivan, Soria
when did mlb expand rosters to 27?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 26, 2011 2:44 AM EST up reply actions
Frenchy, Kendall, Getz and Chavez only count as half a player.
"If people don't want to come out to the ball park, nobody's gonna stop 'em."
~Yogi Berra~
I have slain that NYRoyal A-hole and absorbed his energy
Now I’m an A-hole too, so you won’t be experiencing much of a change.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jan 25, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
Good. I don't like change.
"If people don't want to come out to the ball park, nobody's gonna stop 'em."
~Yogi Berra~



















