DMIT - Final Four
by Scott McKinney on Jan 9, 2011 8:24 PM EST
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When it comes to fake tournaments, it doesn't get any more exciting than this. In the Elite Eight, Jose Guillen, Kyle Farnsworth and Jason Kendall all cruised to the Final Four. But the Mike Jacobs trade put up a good fight before finally succumbing to the Yuniesky Betancourt trade. Now we're down to three awful free agent signings and one horrendous trade. In the end, three #1 seeds and one #2 seed rose to the top (bottom). Who will make it to the final?
#1 Jose Guillen signs a three-year contract vs. #2 Kyle Farnsworth signs a two-year contract
#1 Dan Cortes and Derrick Saito traded for Yuniesky Betancourt and cash vs. #1 Jason Kendall signs a two-year contract
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#1 Jose Guillen signs a three-year contract vs. #2 Kyle Farnsworth signs a two-year contract [REC TO VOTE FOR GUILLEN]
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 9, 2011 8:24 PM EST reply actions 80 recs
#1 Jose Guillen signs a three-year contract vs. #2 Kyle Farnsworth signs a two-year contract [REC TO VOTE FOR FARNSWORTH]
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 9, 2011 8:25 PM EST reply actions 13 recs
#1 Dan Cortes and Derrick Saito traded for Yuniesky Betancourt and cash vs. #1 Jason Kendall signs a two-year contract [REC TO VOTE FOR YUNI TRADE]
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 9, 2011 8:25 PM EST reply actions 51 recs
It’s been close but it looks like I’m going to have to call this one for the Yuni trade.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 12, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Too bad you couldn't include the attempted Butler for Yuni trade
That would have won in a landslide
batter nine you sucky
If I'm interested in really taking my procrastination seriously
I could do an entire rumor-based DMIT. Butler for Yuni. Dotel for Balentien. Teahen for Gutierrez. Several Greinke rumors. I could do at least a 16-rumor bracket.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 16, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
#1 Dan Cortes and Derrick Saito traded for Yuniesky Betancourt and cash vs. #1 Jason Kendall signs a two-year contract [REC TO VOTE FOR KENDALL]
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 9, 2011 8:25 PM EST reply actions 46 recs
kendall had no upside at all, when we had 3 better catchers
then we get him, atleast we needed a shortstop when we go yuni
by Arrowhead Alec on Jan 16, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
I went with Guillen because of the total amount of money...
and Betancourt because we gave up prospects for garbage.
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
by averagegatsby on Jan 9, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
me too - he gave no value (except for all of those R'zzzBIzzzzzzzzzzz
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
Sorta
on an objective level they are pretty easy for me, but the “emotional” situation of some of the transactions were worse. The Guillen thing at the time was just an initial (big) hiccup. The Betancourt trade was the climax of a long journey that the Guillen thing hinted at and the Jacobs/Farns/Bloomquist bonanza really got going.
For me.
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by Matt Klaassen on Jan 10, 2011 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
with great shame I must admit that at the time
I only mildly disliked the Guillen signing at the time. Never once liked it. But someone it took until the start of that season to fully sink in.
The Betancourt trade was especially egregious
considering he had been mocked mercilessly at this site after the rumored Betancourt-Butler trade a few years back.
If only Dayton read Royals Review…
batter nine you sucky
Yuni's my number one and Kendall's my number 2
I hate when number 1 and 2 meet in the semifinals!
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
I don't understand the dislike for Betancourt.
The Royals gave up nothing to get him and he was a huge upgrade from Pena—and much better than the Neifi Perez wannabe the Royals got from Milwaukee to play SS.
I disagree with everything in that post
It was all very wrong.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2011 9:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This may be the first evidence of Will's Facebook crossover fans.
The prophecy has been fulfilled.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 10, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
jbrocato's been here before talking craziness
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 10, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
I know.
I researched and will now apologize. Sorry for my accusation of facebook fandom. I just disagreed with all of the post and it was a kneejerk reaction.
The prophecy has been fulfilled.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 10, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
He Hate Buck
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jan 13, 2011 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
I disliked Pena in the field simply because I did not see a defensive wizard, but he was better than Yuni
Yuni beats him with the bat, sure. The problem is that the Royals could have waited out Mike Aviles’s return (or at that point, Bianchi was still healthy and having a good year IIRC), and they weren’t competing. So why waste payroll? Why trade 2 prospects, especially one as well thought of as Dan Cortes?
Dan Cortes’s Prospect Ratings by Baseball America:
Pre-2008: Rated #57 Prospect
Pre-2009: Rated #90 Prospect
Dan has pitched 5.1 IP in MLB and got 6 strikeouts. In the minors in 2010 he averaged over 1 K per inning. Sounds like a very useful reliever to me.
Yuni Betancourt as a Royal = -0.7 WAR (253/282/394, 291 wOBA)
Dan Cortes as a Mariner = 0.1 WAR
by Gopherballs on Jan 10, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
So where would this fall on the less hate - slightly less hate - midly more hate scale?
Dr. Ausgiano schools me in the classroom and on the field of battle
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jan 10, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Same here.
"We had opportunities when we smoked balls," manager Ned Yost said.
by Diggity Dawg on Jan 10, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
I really can't believe this many people are voting for Kendall.
I mean sure it was stupid, but was it trading two prospects for Yuni and paying him roughly the same as Kendall over 3 years stupid?
In general, which is worse, trading prospects for the worst everyday SS in MLB, or paying the worst catcher $6M over 2 years? The trade has to win IMO, because you gave something up to do it.
I think we all hate the Kendall signing for good reason, but in that same vein, how much of the Kendall signing looks bad in retrospect simply because DM let Olivo and Buck walk, and then they both had career years? And how many of you can actually complain about that, when around 75% of the people here strongly disliked at least one of them if not both?
Just because we gave up a prospect means it should win?
I know that is not what you are saying, but if that’s the case I dont know how the Guillen signing is considered bad. All we did was spend money.
I guess the reason I think the Kendall signing is worse is because it was spending money that wasn’t needed to be spent. We could have kept Buck or Olivo, or signed another catcher for less.
With the Yuni trade, we gave up a relief prospect and paid Yuni some money. We could have signed another SS, but I don’t remember one being readily available midseason.
Why did we need to sign/trade for a SS right then?
The Royals were not contenders at that point. Why trade a part of the future, for something that you didn’t need? TPJ sucked, but why couldn’t Bloomy play there everyday? Or TPJJ? Or some AAA-lifer Utility player that would have cost almost nothing to obtain?
If you want to view Kendall and Yuni as 2 of the worst everyday MLBers, then their performances are fairly equal. The fact that we spent roughly the same amount of money on the two also makes it equal. The deciding factor for me is that instead of claiming Yuni after he was DFA’d and paying his salary, the Royals actually gave up a top 100 BA prospect, plus a lottery ticket. This is why the Yuni acquisition is worse than Kendall.
Yeah, I think the "who else was available midseason?" argument is very weak
Who cares who was available? It’s not like we were in a pennant race. We were playing out the string. Bloomquist could have played there just as crappily as Yuni and for next to nothing. Then Aviles could play the next year (with Bloomy starting the year at SS if Aviles wasn’t quite ready). Or one of the many replacement level SS’s could have been signed for pennies in the offseason.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
Calling Cortes a top 100 prospect at that point is pretty weak
He had a bad first half the year, had off-field issues, and was moved to relief. As you say, the Kendall signing looks bad because of how Buck and Olivo did the next year, but the Cortes trade now looks bad because he appears to be a good relief prospect because of the year he had in 2010.
So, if everything else is equal, it’s a relief prospect versus throwing unnecessary money at an aging catcher when you have affordable, better options already on your roster. I don’t think either one is way worse than the other. I lean Kendall
The negatives
Kendall
1. Money
2. Years
3. Poor performance
4. Better, cheaper player already on roster
Yuni
1. Money (less than Kendall)
2. Years
3. Poor performance (worse than Kendall)
4. Similarly bad, and better, cheaper players already on roster (Bloomy, Aviles)
5. Two pitching prospects given up
I’d say it is Yuni by two lengths.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
@@That seems like a fair grading system@@
If we had kept Buck, who had a 2.9 WAR season last year, that pretty much covers Yuni’s additional salary over Kendall and the value lost of Cortes, a 2010 C+ prospect according to Sickels.
Non-tendering Buck was its own move. Kendall’s signing was it’s own bad move. And the above isn’t a grading system. It is a listing of the bad elements of each move. The Yuni trade had more. It’s just that simple.
And you keep acting like the Royals had no other alternatives other than Yuni. They really did. Bloomie was just as bad. Aviles was better. Both were on the roster already.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Buck was nontendered the day after Kendall was signed (if my research is correct)
I’m just saying that the value Buck produced was greater than Bloomy or Aviles (who was injured).
I’m also saying that the 2.9 WAR that Buck produced is greater in value than Cortes, so each just because Yuni has two “lengths” more than Kendall, that doesn’t mean each length is of equal value.
Really, I thought Kendall was signed after Buck's non-tender
And I think you are inappropriately lumping separate moves together. The Buck non-tender and the Kendall signing weren’t one move. They were separate mistakes.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Well we can't say that we have other options to replace Yuni (Spork, Aviles)
If we can’t consider the fact that we still had Buck when we signed Kendall
Well, I was already willing to consider that we had a better, cheaper option already on the team, as you can see in my list above. I was just thinking of Pena. So I think that element is a wash. Yes, Buck put up a career year, but I don’t think anyone could or should have expected that.
But I do think the Buck non-tender is a separate move. If the Yuni trade let to the Royals releasing Aviles, I would have considered that a separate piece of incompetence.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
I dont think anyone could or should have expected Cortes to do as well this year as he did
He was a preseason C+ prospect this year.
Trying to be clear: I am not saying that the Buck non-tender is the same move. I am saying that we had a better catcher already on the team (Buck) than we did shortstop (Spork, injured Aviles) when we acquired Yuni.
Overall, we are arguing way to seriously over which move of two very dumb moves was more dumb than the other dumb move.
I dont think anyone could or should have expected Cortes to do as well this year as he did He was a preseason C+ prospect this year.
There are many C+ prospects towards the back end of the top 100 every year. And Cortes had been a BA top 100 prospect for two years. So his improvement as a reliever should be anything but a surprise.
Overall, we are arguing way to seriously over which move of two very dumb moves was more dumb than the other dumb move.
Agreed. I wish they could all win.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
no no no....C+ prospects are not top 100 guys
the bottom of the top 100 are at worst B-….and i think, athough, i could be mistaken, that they’re generally B prospects
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 10, 2011 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
however. C+ relief prospects are good relief prospects....
thats Sickels’ grade for Collins and Crow this year
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 10, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
True
But we have a lot of other C+ prospects (10 pitchers, 5 batters). Our first C+ prospect is our 14th prospect.
So we gave up a potentially usefull piece, but not a great piece that people are making it out to be. Yes they are both bad moves by GMDM.
There are not many C+ prospects near the end of the top 100
Using these numbers, there is a vast difference between a top 100 pitcher and a C grade pitcher
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/1/7/1921427/john-sickels-farm-system-rankings
I think this bracket has proven we are all winners as Royals fans
I'm not sure you can separate the moves like that.
I’m pretty convinced that Kendall being a free agent was linked to Olivo and Buck being non-tendered, just as I am convinced that the DDJ trade before the winter meetings was to get Frenchy signed. I think that both moves were one mega mistake and you can lump them together.
Go Royals!
We knew heading out of the 2009 season that Buck and Olivo likely wouldn't be on the 2010 team
How can you lump that together with the Kendall signing?
And DDJ was possibly going to be traded at the trade deadline, so I don’t see how that works out to your lumping idea either.
The Royals actually were committed to paying Yuni $1 million more than Kendall
At the time of acquisition, the Royals assumed $7 million of the money guaranteed to Yuni (with Seattle picking up the rest). Kendall was guaranteed $6 million. It was only because of the trade to Milwaukee (in which the Brewers assumed only $3 million of Yuni’s remaining obligations) that the Royals’ obligation to Yuni dropped below Kendall. So if you are not suppose to consider other moves, the Royals actually agreed to pay Yuni $1 million more than Kendall.
And just to reiterate, the Kendall still was still incredibly stupid, just a little less stupid than the Yuni trade.
Under arbitration rules...
The Royals could not have signed Buck for less than $3 million. More than likely, they would have been looking at $5 million.
he wouldnt have made $5 million in arbitration....
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 11, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
and there's zero reason to believe
that if told by the royals that he’d be their primary catcher, that he wouldnt have taken our $3 million over Toronto’s $2 million
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 11, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
$1 million
can undo alot of jerking around….and really, he was only jerked around in his last season….he was getting between 100-120 starts all the other years…thats pretty reasonable for a starting catcher
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 11, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Remember Buck's hot start in 2007?
He had 14 homers going into July and hit just 4 the rest of the way. I remember Buck hinting that Buddy Bell made him switch his swing, and that he wasn’t sad to see Bell leave.
if buck didnt think it was a good idea....
he shouldnt have changed. bitching about it in retrospect is a bitch move. have confidence in what you’re doing or dont, but dont complain in hindsight
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 11, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
im a much nicer manner
when something is working, you dont change it.
you’re a teacher, right?
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 12, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
In my experience
when telling dumbshit bosses that you want to continue what you’re doing that’s working instead of their dumbshit idea, no matter how nice you put it, you are held accountable for not trying their dumbshit idea. You are put in the “insubordinate” pile of employees and watched with an eagle eye, held accountable for crap and failure/success rate that other employees are allowed to get away with and in general lead to the exit.
And then 3 months later when you have a new boss who wants to try the dumbshit idea again, you are put in the same place with the justification that we’re not really trying it again, we’re trying it for the first time because YOU didn’t give it a real effort the first time and thus it was doomed to failure.
Been there. Done that.
billy, I gave a year of my life to teaching freshmen level math, and couldn’t imagine that I would be sane after doing that for another 29 years. I decided early in January or February of that year that I was not coming back, and followed through on it. I was in a Greinke-type situation and wanted out. Had I had time left on my contract I probably would have plowed my way through and half assed it like Greinke did because my heart was just not in it. The only thing I enjoyed during my time there was coaching the Freshmen Baseball team. It was nice being around the game again. Though I thought it was kind of sad that I had more skill with the bat after not touching it for 14 years than most of the 14-15 year old kids that were on my team.
Once a situation becomes toxic, it’s hard to repair that.
theres my point....
you plowed your way through….you didnt refuse to show up…..thats the main issue i have with greinke…and its based on a vary unsubstantiated rumor. i have no problem with him asking out…although, im a little bit sick of this ‘winning is all that matters talk’….b/c theres no way in hell that regardless of what moore did the past two years, that KC was going to be his best chance to win. He couldve had his pick of all 30 teams this offseason, but he wanted the guaranteed money…like everyone else.
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 12, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
I finished out the season and only shelved my slider.
I couldn’t have gone back for another year though.
and you werent required to
you didnt refuse to come back after spring break (like greinke was ALLEGEDLY going to do)
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 12, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
I actually couldn't do that.
Unless I wanted to get sued. Had I signed a multiyear deal there, I would have tried my damndest to get out of it. I dreaded going in there every single day. The only thing that got me through the spring was coaching baseball. Greinke could afford the fines for not showing up, the team had no leverage against him. I’m happy for him that he’s in a better situation now.
as long as he didnt really threaten to skip ST i am too
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 13, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
I find it hard to believe he would actually skip spring training
Sounds more like a negotiating ploy (maybe by his new agent) and/or an empty threat made to speed things along and show that Zack meant business about being traded.
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 13, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
thats still a dick move....
they were clearly trying their best to honor his request….as far back as fucking july….did greinke expect them to just give him away?
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 13, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
So you gave up on the kids eh?
:)
Dr. Ausgiano schools me in the classroom and on the field of battle
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jan 14, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
HAHAHHH!!!!
Awesome.
Dr. Ausgiano schools me in the classroom and on the field of battle
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jan 14, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
For the record, I never gave up on them.
But I did find it easier to work with them when I knew I wouldn’t have to deal with it the following year. I still don’t understand why you punish a new teacher with all remedial classes and discipline problems. 1 advanced class with good students probably would have been enough to get me to stay.
Because older teachers can be a huge pain in the ass.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
That's not quite right
The lowest amount that the Royals could offer if Buck’s case went to an actual arbitration hearing would have been $2.3 million (absent special circumstances, the maximum paycut in arbitration is 20% and Buck’s 2009 salary was $2.9 million). The team of course could still sign Buck for an amount less than that (if Buck agreed) prior to the deadline for offering arbitration. Considering Buck got only $2 million on the open market (the day after being non-tender, if I remember correctly), the chances are good the Royals could have re-signed Buck for somewhere between $2 million and $3 million.
In theory, that's true
But in reality, if the Royals had gone to arbitration with the 20% pay cut, they almost certainly would have lost. Chances are, Buck would have made over $4 million.
That assumes Buck would accept it, particularly after being jerked around like he was.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Jan 12, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
I'm tired of trying to view every single moment in isolation.
…jerking Buck around was part of the mistake.
I don’t care whether it was part of the “letting Buck walk” mistake or part of the “signing Jason Kendall” mistake. The more I think about this in the context of this tournament, the more I am convinced that there is one big ongoing mistake that looks like this:
mess with Buck’s swing/sign Olivo/promise Olivo the starting job/sign Kendall/let Buck walk/banish Pena to the bench/etc…
I don’t think the Royals are done making this mistake, either. If I had to put a name on this mistake I might call it something like “the failure to properly assess the value of young catchers who can provide relatively consistent performance mixed in with an irrational love of ‘veteran’ field generals.”
If I had to put a catchier name on it, BTW, I’d call it “the Tools of Incompetence.”
It's also possible to see it as part of the syndrome known as
“undervaluing Baird’s guys”, e.g. Howell, DeJesus, et al.
We can only hope...
…because if you are right, our long national nightmare is almost over, since there are precious few of “Baird’s guys” left (he has to have, at least, figured out that Billy can hit, right?)…
…but if I’m right, there’s no end to this… and catcher will be an endless, bottomless, pit of suck for ever and ever, amen…
Ah, The Position of
Perpetual Suck, such as 3rd base for the New York Mets, 1962 to — maybe Ray Knight? There must be others like this with other franchises and I’m just not thinking of them right now. To qualify, the franchise must have done really silly things to fill The Position of Perpetual Suck and failed. Example: Nolan Ryan, Frank Estrada, Don Rose, and Leroy Stanton for Jim Fregosi.
Whether the Royals qualify at both catcher and shortstop is left as an exercise for the reader.
As I made clear during the last round, I felt that letting Buck walk (or forcing him out), was one of the worst moves in this tourney, so I feel I’ve earned the right to complain about Kendall on that level. But, even if you take that out and just look at the options on the day we signed Kendall… I still would have rather gone with Pena/Pina. Yuni, on the day we picked him up wasn’t blocking anyone (yeah, that’s because of Aviles’ injury, but it was still true on the day it happened).
Both were dumb dumb dumb moves, but for me, Kendall did/does more damage going forward. If I had to make a prediction right now, I’d say that the Royals will have a decent fulltime shortstop before they have a decent starting catcher. The Kendall signing, and what it says about the mindset of this FO, is a big part of that prediction.
The fact that Yuni wasn't blocking anyone is irrelevant.
TPJ 2009 = -.9 WAR (40 games, 53 PAs)
Yuni w/ Royals 2009 = -1.2 WAR (71 games, 263 PAs)
Bloomy 2009 = 0.0 WAR (125 games, 468 PAs)
Kendall was a short term fix, while Yuni was a possible long term one according to DM. Yes, the kendall thing is bad when you consider you could have had Buck or Olivo for cheaper than kendall, but we had other replacements for Yuni that didn’t cost us a good prospect, another minor leaguer and money.
In fairness to the Kendall voters:
Signing Kendall can’t really be viewed in a vacuum – the Buck nontender and the Olivo walk (or at least one of them) doesn’t happen without the Kendall signing, because they signed him with the express intent of starting him for as many games as possible.
At least, that’s how I see the rationale behind the Kendall votes…
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
"the Olivo walk...doesn't happen"
How very true.
Oh, you were talking about him leaving, weren’t you?
It's all ball bearings these days!
by CentralChamps20?? on Jan 13, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
i once lost a bet with a baseball retarded friend....
we bet two beers at kauffman on olivo walking….the count was 2-0, 2nd and 3rd i believe….and my friend said ‘i bet they walk him’….‘i said no shot in hell and i’ll bet whatever you want’…4 pitch walk…and balls 3 and 4 were extremely close…
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 13, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
You should have used Pitch f/x to nullify the bet!
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
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by Matt Klaassen on Jan 13, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
his head wouldve exploded
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 13, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Really hoping Kendall wins this
Guillen might’ve been more damaging to the franchise, but Kendall is the worst everyday (and I mean EVERY DAY) player in the major leagues and our FO thinks he’s the best. That must be recognized.
If Kendall would have stayed "healthy", I might have voted for him solely because he's still around.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
Yuni's far worse, and hurt the team more playing everyday at SS.
Kendall getting hurt actually improved the team.
I don't know about "far worse"
But since we didn’t technically give anything up for Kendall, I can see your point above.
However, Kendall is just the PERFECT embodiment of everything wrong with this franchise. Yuni is gone, and as it turns out we gave up basically nothing for him. Kendall will slide back into that starting role and play every game as soon as he comes back. And we’ll probably keep hearing about how awesome he is.
In terms of sheer frustration, Kendall eclipsed anything the Royals have ever done for me. And when judging “worst transaction”, something like that matters to me.
by big matt on Jan 10, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Basically nothing?
What’s a good reliever worth? Cortes is doing very well for the M’s as a reliever and has already reached the majors.
i think he's doing 'very well'
is quite a bit of an overstatement….he pitched 5.1 innings. He’s got some potential as a back end relief guy….which is valuable
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 10, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
I'll take a K per IP out of any reliever.
And he upped that rate slightly in his short time in MLB. Look at his MiLB stats, I don’t see any reason he won’t continue this.
his walk rate was crazy high all of last year outside of 12 innings in AAA
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 10, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
like Jeffress?
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
yes indeed
and having two very similar guys would make the chances of one of them turning into a legitimate closer twice as likely
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 10, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
this is not to say im in any way defending the trade....
or even trashing Cortes….just needs to be pointed out that he’s not a cant miss guy
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 10, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, he was just a decent prospect at that time, not a great one
Much like Jeffress.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
jeffress being much more ready to contribute
than cortes was at the time is really the only difference i can find….well, and jeffress past weed issues, which should be pretty irrelevant
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by billybeingbilly on Jan 10, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Pointing out that Cortes was a top 100 might make some people uncomfortable,
there were a lot of people trashing the guy when the trade was made.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
Even had he crapped out, it was still a dumb move
to trade 2 prospects for a guy that was days away from being nontendered.
It just seems rather silly to me that not only did he pay a large chunk of Yuni’s salary, he also gave the M’s two non-trivial prospects to do it.
And I don’t remember anyone trashing Cortes’s ability. I thought his only crime was urinating in public.
And "worst transaction"
You weren’t here for Yuni then were you? That was the watershed moment here. Kendall is DM’s kind of guy, and really seemed like the perfect DM move. Why would that kind of thing be a surprise to you, and frustrate you the most when it should have been expected?
I mean, DM kept talking about a Yuni for Butler trade that didn’t go down, and we all figured he was past the Yuni fetish, so it was quite the surprise when we found out he shipped out Cortes.
If and when Kendall comes back in the middle of June and they bench Pena,
we’ll all know who the true winner of the DMIT really was.
The prophecy has been fulfilled.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 10, 2011 10:09 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
+2
"We had opportunities when we smoked balls," manager Ned Yost said.
by Diggity Dawg on Jan 10, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
and they bench Pena,
You mean Varitek?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Jan 13, 2011 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
Or Bengie Molina.
The prophecy has been fulfilled.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 13, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
For me,
It’s Guillen by a landslide in that half of the brackett over Farnsworth. The Farnsworth deal was bad, but he wasn’t completely awful for part of last season and was eventually flipped for a decent OFer and a pretty good lefty prospect (and a future grocery bagger named Jesse Chavez). The other half is tougher for me, as last season sticks fresher in my mind. Yuni had probably his best season last year (at least at the plate) and Kendall was awful, especially because he held the two hole almost all season. But, I think the Yuni deal was worse overall (because we traded a pretty decent prospect for the worst everyday player in baseball) and Kendall SHOULD have been the veteran presence that the pitching staff and the younger guys all needed, while not really blocking any up and coming prospects. So conflicted….
(August 31, 2010 8:34 PM PDT) Jojothebeachbum: "WP FTW"
by Jojothebeachbum on Jan 10, 2011 12:08 PM EST reply actions
You know,
I think I’m going to give it to Kendall. On top of everything else, my buddy just helped me remember that his longest ball of the season threatened the warning track. At least Olivo’s Yuni-esque approach at the plate resulted in SOME HRs and several XBH. Kendall was such a downgrade that he takes the cake. And yes, I just replyed to my own comment. It helps my decision-making process when I write down my internal monologue.
(August 31, 2010 8:34 PM PDT) Jojothebeachbum: "WP FTW"
by Jojothebeachbum on Jan 10, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Its a shame that ball didn't go out in Houston...
it was absolutely crushed.
Nevermind that Crushed and Kendall should really never be used when referring each other.
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
by averagegatsby on Jan 10, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure
Kendall could “crush” a golf ball out of a major league park, even using a driver.
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
thats what made it so ridiculous...
It was a wall scraper at the deepest part of the stadium.
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
by averagegatsby on Jan 10, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
Does anyone else remember when they were talking to Mike Moustakas during last season
and he said that Kendall had “pop.”
Stick to hitting dingers, working on your glove, and causal-restaurant tutoring, Moose.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jan 11, 2011 8:47 AM EST up reply actions
Yuni has been worse than Kendall and cost a legitimate prospect
It is close but Yuni is worse, plus it pretty much sums up Dayton Moore’s inabilities to value major league players (and represents the turning point when many realized this).
Kendall was a big mistake too, but he at least offers marginal positive value as a semi-competent defensive catcher.
Two big mistakes,
one that for many defined the magnitude of the mistakes Moore was liable to make as a matter of course, and another that confirmed it.
Can it get any tougher than this?
Whoever wins this one is probably going to be operated on by Guillen like an ingrown toenail.
It's the "turning point" issue that gets me
Yuni was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Guillen was a waste of a lot of money and Farnsworth was a bad idea from the start, but the Yuni trade was the one where the FO just screamed “We don’t know what where doing here!” If I remember correctly, that trade was the point where Moore admitted to non knowing how defensive metrics were “evaluated” and Hillman gave us the unforgettable “We can’t educate” comment. The wheels just fell of the bus with that deal. To me, Kendall was just more of the same: while it was a terrible decision, I actually couldn’t think less of Moore because the Yuni trade had already brought us to the bottom.
It's all ball bearings these days!
by CentralChamps20?? on Jan 10, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
And
Yuni would have been DFAed within a week or two, and Moore wouldn’t have had to give up anything for him, but instead felt the need to give up a guy who would currently be the second-best member of the bullpen right now to hasten the addition of Yuni. Terrible, terrible deal.
It's all ball bearings these days!
by CentralChamps20?? on Jan 10, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
All good points.
I wonder how the general public would vote on these four, just ranking them worst to less worse I bet it would be-
1) Guillen. Everybody knows this deal was a big time flop.
2) Farnsworth. He’s easy to hate.
3) Kendall. Because he got hurt.
4) Yuni. Because he hit grand slams.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
Let me fix #3
3) Kendall. Because he didn’t get hurt SOON ENOUGH
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
I think, straight up,
Having Kendall on the team is more detrimental than having Yuni. I think you’re giving Kendall too much credit with “semi-competent.” A catcher’s defensive responsibilities include blocking balls, throwing out runners, and calling good games for the pitchers. Kendall is awful at all three. So they both cost the team quite a bit on defense, but at least Yuni contributed SOMETHING on offense once in awhile. Kendall had a horrible OPS and did it from a spot in the lineup that killed momentum all the time. So, giving up the prospects for Yuni makes it a debate, but he loses in a head-to-head awfulness battle with Kendall, IMHO.
(August 31, 2010 8:34 PM PDT) Jojothebeachbum: "WP FTW"
by Jojothebeachbum on Jan 10, 2011 3:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Jason Kendall’s awful, injury-shortened 2010: 0.6 fWAR
Yuni’s “breakout” 2010: 0.6 fWAR
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jan 10, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Baseball keeps track of Passed Balls, Wild Pitches, and Caught Stealing
Kendall finished middle of the pack (6 PB, 35 WP, 29% caught stealing rate) among regular catchers.
The nice thing is no matter what anyone chooses, they are right!
There are no losers here. Each of these is so bad that a credible, true argument can be made that it is #1.
“What about Farnsworth?” you say, “It wasn’t that bad”. Oh yes, it was. This is one of the simplest tasks a GM has to handle: patch a hole on the bullpen roster with a player who won’t kill the team, hopefully has some upside, and doesn’t cost the team too much by taking away resources from elsewhere in the org. Despite the low degree of difficulty, Moore failed miserably on all three accounts. He severely overpaid for a poor player whose peak performance level was well established a long time ago. At least the other three had some way where you could see how a GM might slip up and do what Moore did; with the Farnsworth signing, not so.
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 10, 2011 1:28 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I disagree as well.
I fail to see how Kendall can be as bad as Yuni, not to mention Guillen. And Farnsworth was bad, but as a reliever his impact is automatically limited. The everyday players are far worse.
Is this why giving up Cortes was so bad?
but as a reliever his impact is automatically limited
Giving up Cortes and Saito was bad
Not because they were sure thing impact players in MLB, but because they were prospects of some value and they were traded for a below replacement level player. Signing such a player (Yuni) and paying him millions sucks. It sucks even more when you have to play him and pay him millions AND you give up any talent for him.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Cortes was a starter when he was traded.
And prior to the season was #90 on BA’s prospect list. He wasn’t a nobody.
He wasn't a nobody
But he was, at the time he was traded, a failing starting pitcher. It was pretty clear he would not be a starter any more
Like Jeffress
Who is also a pretty good prospect, clearly just a reliever, has control problems and is a borderline top 100 prospect.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
I think Jeffress is a better prospect at the time we acquired him than Cortes was when we traded him
But that’s a fair point. I’m just saying that a relief prospect is probably not as valuable as having Buck for a year.
Now you’re adding the Buck non-tender to the Kendall signing. Those were separate moves. Add them both together and that is worse than the Yuni trade. But if you look at each individual move, the Yuni trade is worse than the Kendall signing.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
that's partially why the Buck nontender was my sleeper for the tourney
It was bad in and of itself – but in addition, it caused the GM to make another, equally (or even more) dumb move.
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
But if we start lumping together every bad move which was related to every other bad move, suddenly you have an inextricable web of incompetence which disallows any comparison of individual moves.
And with regard to this move, it’s not like the Kendall signing caused the Buck non-tender. The later pre-dated the former. So loyal2sdad, your position is at least supported by logic. I don’t think Boots conflation of the two moves makes sense.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
What if Buck was non-tendered after Kendall was signed?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/news?playerId=5407
Buck non tendered- Dec 12
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/news?playerId=3401
Kendall signs- Dec 11
So, when Kendall was signed, we had a catcher on our team that would produce 2.9 WAR the next year
Good catch on the timing
I replied to the issue of adding the two pieces of incompetence together above.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I see no reason that these two were not lumped
together, just as DDJ trade and Frenchy should have been lumped together too. They were the same mistake, part I and then part II.
Go Royals!
trading dejesus is now a bad move?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 10, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
Its bad because he was traded to make room
for Frenchie, that’s dumb.
Go Royals!
he was traded b/c that was the way to extract the most value
from the 1 year left on DDJ contract
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 10, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
If DDJ was healthy and hitting well in
spring training, he would be worth more. As it is, DM traded him at his market value before the Winter meetings not because he feared DDJ would not be able to come back, but because he thought he could land Frenchy if he could offer him right field full time.
Go Royals!
willingham is a similar player....
who was healthy and whose team waited further into the offseason to make a trade…and he brought less of a return than DDJ…your argument is based 100% on baseless speculation
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 10, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yes it is speculation, but it
is not baseles. The majority of RR pretty much knew Frenchy would be a Royal this year and that DDJ would be gone before it happened. I’m not sure that Olivo being non-tendered was due to Kendall being a free agent, but I would not bet against it.
Go Royals!
DDJ woudve and shouldve been gone regardless....
frenchy wasnt the reason for that. The reason for it was that it made the most sense for the organization long term.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 10, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
he wouldve been gone at the deadline
had he not gotten hurt…that has nothing at all to do with frenchy
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 10, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
Sickels 2010 report on Cortes
9) Dan Cortes, RHP, Grade C+: Control went backwards big-time last year, cutting into his grade. Beavis and Butt-head public urination antics don’t go over well either. Ceiling remains high if he gets his head on straight.
Why Kendall could legitimately be the #1
It was done later in Moore’s tenure, and he showed he had learned little to nothing in his time as GM. In particular, he showed that he doesn’t understand the aging curve of veterans, the lack of value of “veteran leadership” (especially on a team that’s doomed to lose no matter what), and how to evaluate the market for free-agent ML talent.
This happened in the offseason, with no real pressure to make a move or any other constraints that might have weakened a GM’s ability to get the best player at the best price. At least with Yuni, Moore (incorrectly) seemed to feel a need to get an ML “starter” at SS in a hurry after the Aviles injury. So maybe Moore’s judgment was clouded with Yuni, but no excuses with Kendall.
Moore also reiterated that he has learned nothing of advanced baseball thinking. The org referred to Yuni as being a good defensive player, and the baseball world exploded with criticism about Moore’s incorrect approach due to not liking/understanding modern metrics. Despite all that, the FO showed with the Kendall signing that they still have not made any sort of progress on that front. Moore paid (overpaid) for intangibles and mediocre defensive talent while leaving no room to discover hidden talent in some player that could help the Royals in a season that mattered (i.e., not 2010).
Yuni showed what utter blackness of Moore’s abyss looks like; Kendall showed that Moore has learned little if anything since then. Which is the bigger problem? I don’t know, but I’ll make a case that the latter might be worse.
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 10, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Completely agree.
There were three better solutions for the same or even less money. 1.) John Buck, 2.) Miguel Olivo, and 3.) Brayan Pena. All three were either around the same money or less. The pitching staff was familiar with all three, not to mention Zack’s mojo with Olivo. DM was so queer for “Johhny Arm Tats” that he let two walk both of which produced at a much higher level offensively, one having been an All Star. Plus he then blocked the young cheap prospect. I have to assume that he (DM) hates players that smile alot, and gets tattoos vicariously through Kendall.
The prophecy has been fulfilled.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 11, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
Guillen is a no brainer
Farnsworth was actually a decent reliever after first 2 weeks of ’09 (2.75 era, 1.271 whip opponents OPS around .640) it is just that he was overpaid- But Guillen was even more overpaid. I think Farnsworth made it to the final four on pure emotion. We also got Tim Collins out of the deal, and Blanco is an OK piece as well. Easy pick.
Yuni or Kendall, though is killing me. I DO link Kendall with Buck, whether NY says I should or not. They would not have gotten rid of Buck if they did not think Kendall was better. However, we traded prospects for Yuni when we didn’t have to. This game would be decided in overtime. I am leaning towards Kendall for 2 reasons. One, because of the sheer stupidity of thinking he was better than Buck. Secondly there is still the chance that Kendall makes a miracle comeback and I have to watch Yost move him right back into the 2 hole.
"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance
by KHAZAD on Jan 10, 2011 7:39 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I put that miracle chance at 90%.
Pena better be on HR record pace before Kendall is ready of he wants to stay the starter.
Go Royals!
I thought the reaction to the Yuni signing was more vitriolic than the Kendall signing.
It’s another reason I go with Yuni:
http://www.royalsreview.com/2009/7/10/944941/royals-acquire-ss-yunieski
I can’t find the Kendall signing post. Or at least not one with a ton of comments.
And kudos to Will for predicting the Greinke trade and the timing:
http://www.royalsreview.com/2009/12/30/1225847/not-to-depress-you-but-were-now-a (found this while looking for Kendall).
My God...
After everything that’s happened over the last couple of years, re-reading that Yuni link is downright hilarious. Even if I wanted to quote a gem or two from that post, there’s just too many ironic comments to choose from. It’s like a comedy Christmas.
MAJOR LEAGUE (The Royals)
Rachel Phelps (Royals Management): I think he'll fit right in with our team concept.
Charlie Donovan (Royals Fans): That reminds me, I was going to ask you. What exactly *is* our team concept?
by Royals Medic on Jan 10, 2011 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
what happened to NHZ?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jan 10, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
I gotta start asking Will for stock tips
That’s like the fifth or sixth datapoint hinting at precognitive abilities
batter nine you sucky
Kendall Signing:
http://www.royalsreview.com/2009/12/11/1196796/guess-no-really-guess
It only required a fanshot
Someone help me, I can't take it anymore.
How is Jeffress pronounced? Is it really how it looks? Because that’s a terrible name.
Dear Alex Gordon:
I still think you will be awesome, but for the love of God, please stop getting hurt.
Sincerely,
RF
If the accent is on the first syllable,
It’s not far from how the “upper crust” would pronounce Jeffries. Or the British. At least the wealthy British in a Merchant-Ivory production.
Like Jeff Fresh, but replace the sh with an s sound.
Will “Fresh Prince” Smith and DJ Jazzy Jeff Fresh. That’s a tag team bullpen combo right there.
by AxDxMx on Jan 11, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is sickening.
To me, it’s easy to tell what the 3 worst contracts in Royals history are, and in order:
Guillen
Sweeney
Meche
You could buy the Royals team from Glass with the money spent on just these three under-achieving part-timers.
"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~
Well, not quite, the club is valued at 282M.
But has an annual profit of around only 8M after expenses and salaries.
The monies paid to those 3 idiots alone, represent the Royals annual profit take for about 20 years.
Dumbest of the dumb.
"I am a Physicist and a Cosmologist and although I cannot move, and must speak through a computer, in my mind........ I am free". ~Stephen Hawking~
Storm Davis and Mark Davis would like to have a word with you.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Jan 11, 2011 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
A few points..
#1. I voted Kendall over Yuni. I will vote Kendall over Guillen also. For this reason, and this reason only: JASON KENDALL WAS OUR #2 HITTER!! Guillen for all his warts hit in the spot we all figured he would but Yost plugged Kendall in at #2 and never let up.
#2. Yuni had some moments of heroics. Hate him all you want, it’s the “cool” thing to do but remember, there are 2 types of fans of baseball. The “smart fans”…who are online, know stats and the like…and “casual fans” who go to the park and cheer for a home run and have no idea what WAR, UZR, OPS and ERA+ is..hell, I don’t know…but to ridicule “casual fans” who cheer on Yuni is the same as going to a wrestling match and making fun of the fans who don’t know its real. Whether they know or not, you are still at the same event as them. We are all Royals fans, so belittling those in the dark is far less productive then educating them. I mean, its fun and all and gives entertainment I am sure, but eventually it’s boring.
#3. I can’t vote Farnsworth, because as mentioned, he was great in KC his 2nd year. I honestly can say i would not object to a cheap “sign and flip” deal again this season. He got us Collins. I am soooo stoked with Collins…who knows what else we could get for him. He wasn’t nearly the egotistical bad guy everyone made him out to be upon first signing with us…his 2nd year, you could tell he was willing to try anything to help this team…and even when beyond help, he put up damn good numbers.
by KennyPowers_from_Scout on Jan 11, 2011 2:56 AM EST reply actions
well shit..can't edit your own post?
in #2 it should say “going to a wrestling match and making fun of the fans who don’t know its FAKE”…freudian..it’s REAL dammit!..lol
by KennyPowers_from_Scout on Jan 11, 2011 2:58 AM EST up reply actions
Have to go with Farnsworth
I might not have been as in tune with the blogosphere at the time of the Guillen signing and may just have missed this, but when Farnsworth was signed it seemed a certainty that 1) he was going to be terrible and 2) no other GM could possibly have been bidding anywhere close to that.
Also, I hate Jason Kendall. Very much.
But he turned into Kevin Pucetas
Surely $36MM is a worthy investment for a prospect
All it will take is a few All-Star seasons and one CY award from Pucetas
to turn the Guillen signing into a positive. I have my fingers crossed.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 11, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
The point of this tournament was to consider each move seperately.
Pucetas does not even enter into the discussion.
But since you want to go there:
Guillen with the Royals: -1.2 fWAR = -$6.3M – $36M paid to Guillen = -$42.3M
I don’t know about you, but I consider a transaction that came out -$42M in the hole to be quite bad. The other transactions don’t even come close. Even if you give Pucetas a value of $20M (which is overvaluing him by about $20M), this is still -$22M in the hole. Do Farnsy, Yuni, or Kendall come close to even being -$20M bad, let alone -$42M bad?
And I'm an idiot for not reading the 2nd half of your post
and realizing you were joking.
All I saw was “But he turned into Pucetas”
Didn’t read the “surely $36M is a worthy prospect investment”
But I wasn't joking!!!!
He gave us a prospect in return, so it CAN’T be as bad as Kendall. Just like Yuni can’t be as bad because we had to give up a prospect ;)
Well if you look at that one through the money as well:
Yuni fWAR (2009-2010 Royals) = .6 = -$3.2M – $3M salary = -$6.2M (Is $3M really all the Royals paid to Yuni?). We’ll go with the C+. Money data from this link.
Cortes C+ prospect rating = $1.9M for a C, 6.5 for B, comes $3.43M for C+ or 4.97M for B
Saito = $0, he’s a lottery ticket
Total Yuni = -$9.63M
Kendall fWAR = .6 = +$2.6M – $6M salary +/- 2011 production = $3.4M +/ 2011 production.
So I guess it comes down to this question. Can Jason Kendall produce -$6.23M in value in a partial season. I highly doubt it. That would be roughly -1.5 WAR. That’d be pretty hard to accomplish considering the worst catcher season in the last decade is Scott Hatteberg for Boston in 2001 at -1.2 fWAR.
Now if you want to look at Buck or Olivo, it becomes a different story entirely, but I don’t think there was a single person on this site that thought either of them would survive the 2009 offseason. I hoped Buck would, but figured he was gone (and I felt alone as there were only a handful of Buck supporters and almost no Olivo supporters). As such, Kendall is its own bad move.
Damn strikethroughs...
Yuni had -.6 fWAR total.
And Cortes’s highest prospect rank at the end of the strikethrough was considered a B-, but the C+ value was used.
I just realized that Yuniesky Betancourt turned into Cain, Odorizzi, Escobar, and Jeffress
So trading for Yuni has to be considered a win. Those prospects are worth way more than Daniel Cortes
Come on, let's be realistic
Greinke got the Royals Escobar. Yuni only brought back Cain, Odorizzi and Jeffress. So that does make the Yuni trade look a little better.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 11, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
True, we know that DM likes to acquire shortstops by trading them pitchers
As proven by the Yuni acquisition
NY, inquiring minds want to know:
Will this tournament feature a 3rd place game, like the NCAA used to do (albeit, a LONG time ago!)?
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
yes
Third place games suck for real tournaments, but I like them for fake tournaments.
The immoderate moderator
by Scott McKinney on Jan 11, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
just make sure we have that vote before the #1 vote
or at least simultaneously. I hate anticlimaxes.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jan 11, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
TWSS
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
Even when a bronze medal is on the line???
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
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